I'm a Mason

[Russkie]

And I'm here.

I'm also a staunch Orthodox Christian.

So "Christos Voskres" or "Happy Easter".

I know most of you think Masons control the world. Who the hell knows, all I know is that me and the Masons I know are just regular people.

This site has an anti-mason core, but if you want to seriously talk about masonic practice and philosophy, I'll discuss everything openly. If you read me at GIM, you know I'm a straight shooter.

I'm on here and on GIM2, because I'm waiting to see how both will shape up.

And quite frankly, the whole shut down of the old site seems kind of fishy, and no one offered a good explanation.

I think the domain might have been sold or something. Weird.

What's the official conspiracy theory?

[Olmstein]

Welcome aboard, Russkie!

Some here are more anti-masonic than others. Don't worry about it.

So did the lodges exist during the Soviet era? Or is this a new thing in Russia?

[General of Darkness]

What level mason are you?

[Russkie]

I was initiated in Detroit. Haven't been to lodge in Russia yet, but I know where it is.

Masonry was outlawed in the Soviet Union, and people are REAL suspisious of Masons here.

They shouldn't be, because most of the great Russian intellectuals were Masons, and the Decembrists were also.

Good to be here.

[Russkie]

What level mason are you?


Higher than you.


I know, you'll say "Well, you aren't 33rd degree, so you aren't in on the whole conspiracy yet".

Well, I'm not at the top of the food chain, but my best friend is 32nd degree and is an unemployed electrician, so something is wrong here.

[Horn]

Just so long as you don't start running things around here, I'm O.K.

I don't dig being run thru the higher level hoops.

[Horn]

What level mason are you?


Well, I'm not at the top of the food chain, but my best friend is 32nd degree and is an unemployed electrician, so something is wrong here.


What are you talking about?

Unemployed electricians run the planet, their tax free side jobs are a strain on the economy. ;D

[Russkie]

Just so long as you don't start running things around here, I'm O.K.

I don't dig being run thru the higher level hoops.



As soon as I can figure out how to run things over here, I'll be sure to NOT let you know about it......

MWWWAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

[crazychicken]

My Grandfather and my uncle were 32nd degree.

I never asked to join.

CC

[Ponce]

You are a Mason and I am a Cuban........ that's the feeling that I get from all this.

Like back in the 70's when I used to Disco Dance, went to my favorite club and something was different, the lady at the door asked me "Are you a Jew?" and I said to her "No, I am a Cuban".......she looked at me for a few seconds and then said "Ok, you can go in" hahahahahahahaahahah.

[Horn]

Just so long as you don't start running things around here, I'm O.K.

I don't dig being run thru the higher level hoops.



As soon as I can figure out how to run things over here, I'll be sure to NOT let you know about it......

MWWWAHAHAHA!!!!!!!


Damn, Russkies

[I am me, I am free]

From your posts I consider you more Russian than mason.

[PDT]

I'm also a staunch Orthodox Christian.


Really?

http://www.douknow.net/fm_FreemasonryandChristianity.htm

[RJB]

I'm also a staunch Orthodox Christian.


Atleast you guys got the right day for Easter this year :D

[wildcard]

RJB! They'll let anyone in here~ ;D

Good to see you!

[hoarder]

I have had friends who were Masons. In 1978 I was thrown in jail for drunk driving. My girlfriend went and talked to our friend/neighbor who was a Mason. He drove her to the jailhouse and shook hands with the Constable/Mason and I was free!

Lots of people think just because someone is a Mason they are anti-American or anti-Christian. I don't think this is true for everyday Masons.
What I worry about is higher level Masons who are Jews, Cop Masons, espionage Masons, Judge Masons etc.

I think about half of all cops and spies and intelligence agency officers are Masons.
Actually my Mason friend who got me out of jail was a low level internal affairs type spy whose job was to sniff out military officers who were stealing from the govt.

Most of these guys are probably OK as far as cops go, but the problem is that they are sworn to be loyal to each other and not testify against each other, to protect them from prosecution.

That said, Freemasonry is kind of like a protection pyramid.

So who is at the top that needs so much protection? Read about the Kol Nidre and find out!

[LuckyStrike]

Most of these guys are probably OK as far as cops go, but the problem is that they are sworn to be loyal to each other and not testify against each other, to protect them from prosecution.

That said, Freemasonry is kind of like a protection pyramid.

So who is at the top that needs so much protection? Read about the Kol Nidre and find out!



From my POV, this is a huge problem with jews and something I have learned over the years, they might say a lot of Truth and good things (Rand, Mises etc etc) yet when it comes down to it they ALWAYS side with kikestan (occupied palestine) over everything even if it means going against what they have preached for years (like Rand).

They hold nothing more sacred than themselves and have no moral code when it comes down to it.

[PDT]

I have had friends who were Masons. In 1978 I was thrown in jail for drunk driving. My girlfriend went and talked to our friend/neighbor who was a Mason. He drove her to the jailhouse and shook hands with the Constable/Mason and I was free!

Lots of people think just because someone is a Mason they are anti-American or anti-Christian. I don't think this is true for everyday Masons.
What I worry about is higher level Masons who are Jews, Cop Masons, espionage Masons, Judge Masons etc.

I think about half of all cops and spies and intelligence agency officers are Masons.
Actually my Mason friend who got me out of jail was a low level internal affairs type spy whose job was to sniff out military officers who were stealing from the govt.

Most of these guys are probably OK as far as cops go, but the problem is that they are sworn to be loyal to each other and not testify against each other, to protect them from prosecution.

That said, Freemasonry is kind of like a protection pyramid.

So who is at the top that needs so much protection? Read about the Kol Nidre and find out!


Freemasonry is Judaism for Gentiles.

Every Mason is obligated to protect another Mason, and if necessary, at the expense of a non-Mason. That type of shit is antithetical to a free society.

[MoShaniqua]

I was initiated in Detroit. Haven't been to lodge in Russia yet, but I know where it is.

Masonry was outlawed in the Soviet Union, and people are REAL suspisious of Masons here.

They shouldn't be, because most of the great Russian intellectuals were Masons, and the Decembrists were also.

Good to be here.


Nice to see you here!

My beef is with the illuminati bastards with their third freaken all seeing eye that have infiltrated the high levels of masonry and other organizations.

[PDT]

My beef is with the illuminati bastards with their third freaken all seeing eye that have infiltrated the high levels of masonry and other organizations.


Please. Not all Freemasons are "in the know," but the "brotherhood" as a whole is an enemy organization.

[Horn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqf0N0Z2nps

[hoarder]

The problem I have with the reptillian/extra terrestrial theory is that it can't be proven or disproven.
I don't doubt that there are many things which are true but cannot be proven, but I think it makes sense to focus our analytiical skills on the most provable instead of the least provable.
There is much more evidence to prove Khazar/Jew involvement in conspiracy so regardless of whether they are at the top or subservient to some mysterious supernatural power or whatever, it only makes sense to apply the cui bono test to the reptillian theories.

Does organized Jewry benefit by the reptillian theory?

Conspirators need "blame absorbers" and distractions to divert scrutiny away from them.
Conspirators need to discredit conspiracy theorists, by making them appear silly. What better way than to have them all yammering about lizard men ruling the world.
Conspirators need to demoralize their opposition by making them believe they are helpless and powerless to confront the conspirators. Lizard men from mars are much more intimidating than mortal men.

[PDT]

The problem I have with the reptillian/extra terrestrial theory is that it can't be proven or disproven.
I don't doubt that there are many things which are true but cannot be proven, but I think it makes sense to focus our analytiical skills on the most provable instead of the least provable.
There is much more evidence to prove Khazar/Jew involvement in conspiracy so regardless of whether they are at the top or subservient to some mysterious supernatural power or whatever, it only makes sense to apply the cui bono test to the reptillian theories.

Does organized Jewry benefit by the reptillian theory?

Conspirators need "blame absorbers" and distractions to divert scrutiny away from them.
Conspirators need to discredit conspiracy theorists, by making them appear silly. What better way than to have them all yammering about lizard men ruling the world.
Conspirators need to demoralize their opposition by making them believe they are helpless and powerless to confront the conspirators. Lizard men from mars are much more intimidating than mortal men.




There may be a metaphorical truth to the "reptilian" stuff. Christ said the Talmud Jews are "of their Father the Devil" (John 8:44). The Serpent of the Garden of Eden is understood to be the Devil.

[hoarder]

There may be a metaphorical truth to the "reptilian" stuff. Christ said the Talmud Jews are "of their Father the Devil" (John 8:44). The Serpent of the Garden of Eden is understood to be the Devil.
You may be right. I'm not up on religious stuff much but in the old days weren't snakes symbolic of liars? Lying was "speaking with forked tounge". It may be that serpent was not meant in the literal sense but rather a synonym for liar. A snake wiggles his forked tongue before he sinks his fangs in you and injects venom. The human equivalent is referred to as a snake and not meant in the literal sense.

[Libertarian_Guard]

I like this thread.

I'm not a Mason. But I have several close friends that are, they are good people, and they are high achivers in business, always looking for that next leg up, never content with where they are at.

When I was in my mid 20's, I had a chance to 'petition for membership' but I was too independent minded, a part of me regrets that, because it does open up doors.

Anyhow, great board, I'll look to post more here later tonight.

[Libertarian_Guard]

You are a Mason and I am a Cuban........ that's the feeling that I get from all this.

Like back in the 70's when I used to Disco Dance, went to my favorite club and something was different, the lady at the door asked me "Are you a Jew?" and I said to her "No, I am a Cuban".......she looked at me for a few seconds and then said "Ok, you can go in" hahahahahahahaahahah.


Say Ponce, aren't Cubans the Jews of the caribbean?

[Libertarian_Guard]

I have had friends who were Masons. In 1978 I was thrown in jail for drunk driving. My girlfriend went and talked to our friend/neighbor who was a Mason. He drove her to the jailhouse and shook hands with the Constable/Mason and I was free!

Lots of people think just because someone is a Mason they are anti-American or anti-Christian. I don't think this is true for everyday Masons.
What I worry about is higher level Masons who are Jews, Cop Masons, espionage Masons, Judge Masons etc.

I think about half of all cops and spies and intelligence agency officers are Masons.
Actually my Mason friend who got me out of jail was a low level internal affairs type spy whose job was to sniff out military officers who were stealing from the govt.

Most of these guys are probably OK as far as cops go, but the problem is that they are sworn to be loyal to each other and not testify against each other, to protect them from prosecution.

That said, Freemasonry is kind of like a protection pyramid.

So who is at the top that needs so much protection? Read about the Kol Nidre and find out!


Freemasonry is Judaism for Gentiles.

Every Mason is obligated to protect another Mason, and if necessary, at the expense of a non-Mason. That type of sh*t is antithetical to a free society.


Sure enough, we would all like to live in a free society, but people well ban together, whether it's unions, parties or whatever, there is strength in numbers.

[sirgonzo420]

Glad you made it, L_G!

[Libertarian_Guard]

I was initiated in Detroit. Haven't been to lodge in Russia yet, but I know where it is.

Masonry was outlawed in the Soviet Union, and people are REAL suspisious of Masons here.

They shouldn't be, because most of the great Russian intellectuals were Masons, and the Decembrists were also.

Good to be here.


Nice to see you here!


My beef is with the illuminati bastards with their third freaken all seeing eye that have infiltrated the high levels of masonry and other organizations.


The all seeing eye is a symbol. Technology is what makes your conception of the all seeing eye, todays reality! As big brother has grown much bigger.

[Libertarian_Guard]

Glad you made it, L_G!


Thanks for the invite.

[slvrbugjim]

well Russkie I hope you get your shit together I would not be a part of a group that espouses "Satan" Lucifer or whatever, it just does not meet the smell test.

For those is Russia many are still Atheists, that is fine, but to worship evil is not a good thing I think. Just my opinion but I think that evil is a bad thing. Good luck


Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable, blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish souls? Doubt it not!" [Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, p. 321, 19th Degree of Grand Pontiff; Red Emphasis added]

What a revelation! From the first degree, the first Initiation, the Mason is urged mightily to "seek the Light"! The average Mason is continually saying that he is "seeking the Light", and will spend his entire life "moving toward the Light". Almost every person in Western Civilization will assume that this "Light" is the revelation of the God of the Bible; indeed, this statement is held up continuously to try to convince us that Masonry is Christian. Yet, here, Albert Pike is saying that Lucifer is the One who bears the Light of Freemasonry! Lucifer is the Light-bearer of Freemasonry .

Pike's sentence immediately preceding this one confirms not only that Lucifer is the Light-bearer, but that Masons of previous degrees have been led to believe that the opposite was true. Since the wording of this sentence is a little arcane [understood only by those with special knowledge], I asked former Illuminist Satanist Doc Marquis, for his explanation. But, we are getting a little ahead of ourselves now; let us examine this sentence.


http://www.cuttingedge.org/free11.html

[StackerKen]

I know nothing about masons
although I get the feeling it may not be a good thing,

Im Glad Russkie is here.

and RJB too.

Glad you made it guys

[WebTech]

I'm a drywall contractor does that get me a secret handshake?

[philo beddoe]

What level mason are you?


Higher than you.


I know, you'll say "Well, you aren't 33rd degree, so you aren't in on the whole conspiracy yet".

Well, I'm not at the top of the food chain, but my best friend is 32nd degree and is an unemployed electrician, so something is wrong here.
He probably paid good money for every rung up the ladder. The Masons are curently recruiting beaners up the wazoo, because no one wants to play silly games and do silly handshakes.

[slvrbugjim]

Hey dude, I was a Sigma Phi Epsilon dude in college, well that was all about drinking beer and getting girls.

But it was no doubt Masonic, we just did not know it, nor did we care.

The lower level porch Masons have no idea either.

But some here that are upper lever understand and promote the evil of this organization.

[Awoke]

Ruskkie, I've known you are a mason for a long time, but never brought it up. I would love to talk about it with you after you read the book "Masonry: Conspiracy agaist Christianity" by A. Ralph Epperson.

[Russkie]

Well guys, I respect your opinions, because some of you have tried your best to research them.

I'll just say this....

As a mason, I am not obligated to help anyone if it means compromising my morals or hurting my family financially.

I myself am an anti-Zionist.

And I am against the Fed and usurers whether they are Brother Masons or not.

I may be a "porch Mason", as some liketo put it.

But the fact reemains that I pay $40 per year to visit with my friends, perform rituals, and study how the morality of all great faiths corresponds with objective science (namely geometry).

I don't see how this makes me a tool of anything.

But I do know this.......

People's fears and assumptions usually occupy a higher place in their life than the search for truth.

I hope that my fears and assumptions will always take a back seat to my objectivity and fairness, and this is a priunciple I learned from the Masons.

If a Mason tries to recruit you, he is NOT acting like a Mason.

And the organization as a whole is not responsible for the rantings of any of its individual members- i.e. Albert Pike.

Alester Crowley and Nathan Bedforn Forrest were also Masons, but so was Washington, Locke, Franklin, Voltaire, and many others.

Pick your Mason, and have fun with what he said.

[learn2swim]

What's your story? I know you're Russian, a mason, a former member of GIM-1, a former US Marine--- if I remember correctly? How did this all come about? Seems like an interesting story... :)

[striped_bear]

But the fact reemains that I pay $40 per year to visit with my friends, perform rituals, and study how the morality of all great faiths corresponds with objective science (namely geometry).



Hi Russkie, I've been reading you posts since you joined GIM1, I think we had a few short discussions there too.

I usually find your posts very insightful and interesting.

What do you mean by perform rituals, exactly? That kind of stuff throws up red flags for me, unless it is a purely Christian ritual such as a water baptism.

Before I found Christ I studied the occult, such as the works of Aleister Crowley who you mentioned. Some of his stuff was okay, but most of it was pretty fucked.

He teaches that rituals are used to perform magick (create change in accordance to Will). These can be simple or elaborate.

So the first question here is Russkie, what is the Will of the masons, a group which you give your energy to by practicing magick ritual with them?

And the second question is, why do you find it necessary to try to impose your Will on creation in some way, instead of surrendering to the Divine Will of the Holy Father?

This is what it comes down to. Worship of Self or worship of God.

Worship of Self is a trap.

[Pat Pat]

There may be a metaphorical truth to the "reptilian" stuff. Christ said the Talmud Jews are "of their Father the Devil" (John 8:44). The Serpent of the Garden of Eden is understood to be the Devil.
You may be right. I'm not up on religious stuff much but in the old days weren't snakes symbolic of liars? Lying was "speaking with forked tounge". It may be that serpent was not meant in the literal sense but rather a synonym for liar. A snake wiggles his forked tongue before he sinks his fangs in you and injects venom. The human equivalent is referred to as a snake and not meant in the literal sense.


another name for usury is "snake bite" or "bite of the serpent"

[Book]

Like back in the 70's when I used to Disco Dance, went to my favorite club and something was different, the lady at the door asked me "Are you a Jew?" and I said to her "No, I am a Cuban".......she looked at me for a few seconds and then said "Ok, you can go in" hahahahahahahaahahah.


We were all kinda surprised two years ago when you announced on GIM1 and Golden Agora "suddenly discovering" from your Cuban relative that you are indeed a Marrano Jew. This lady at the Disco Dance in the 70's could have saved you years of confusion.

::)

[7th trump]

There may be a metaphorical truth to the "reptilian" stuff. Christ said the Talmud Jews are "of their Father the Devil" (John 8:44). The Serpent of the Garden of Eden is understood to be the Devil.
You may be right. I'm not up on religious stuff much but in the old days weren't snakes symbolic of liars? Lying was "speaking with forked tounge". It may be that serpent was not meant in the literal sense but rather a synonym for liar. A snake wiggles his forked tongue before he sinks his fangs in you and injects venom. The human equivalent is referred to as a snake and not meant in the literal sense.

Yep, you hit the nail on the head. A serpent is nothing more than a liar. The devil is nothing but a liar.
In Genesis the tree of knowledge of good and evil is the serpent. The tree of LIFE is Jesus.

[StackerKen]

There may be a metaphorical truth to the "reptilian" stuff.

I would also agree with that statement.

Howdy 7th Brother! :)

[philo beddoe]

I'm not a mason either, although I had a friend 15 years ago who aggressively tried to recruit me. Told me about what a great philanthropic organization it was, how they respected logical thinkers like myself, how my understanding of history and art would benefit me... even told me a little about things like the ruler and divider symbolism and showed me the handshake. I wasn't interested enough to pursue it, and now I'm REALLY glad I didn't, knowing what I know now! I sometimes wonder if he might have broken his oath (at least technically) even talking with me about it as much as he did.
Thanks Gaillo
about 2001 , a newbie mason tried to get me involved in the crapt. He was mexican, and I knew the masons wee going downhill as I understood they used to be mostly white.

[StackerKen]

Thanks Goldmaster

Good points.

[Ponce]

Like back in the 70's when I used to Disco Dance, went to my favorite club and something was different, the lady at the door asked me "Are you a Jew?" and I said to her "No, I am a Cuban".......she looked at me for a few seconds and then said "Ok, you can go in" hahahahahahahaahahah.


We were all kinda surprised two years ago when you announced on GIM1 and Golden Agora "suddenly discovering" from your Cuban relative that you are indeed a Marrano Jew. This lady at the Disco Dance in the 70's could have saved you years of confusion.

Brooke? it wasn't from my people but by looking at the Spanish names on line that are 'supposed" to be Jews...... I said "I would never tell my people in Cuba what I found out", after doing some more search on the WWW I never found out nothing to back up what I found........however, I only consider to be a "real" Jew only those with a Jewish mother........and mine was Irish-American.

::)

[StackerKen]

I found this

http://www.equip.org/perspectives/freemasonry-is-freemasonry-occultic

and I trust that site

[Book]

Book? it wasn't from my people but by looking at the Spanish names on line that are 'supposed" to be Jews...... I said "I would never tell my people in Cuba what I found out", after doing some more search on the WWW I never found out nothing to back up what I found........however, I only consider to be a "real" Jew only those with a Jewish mother........and mine was Irish-American.

::)


As I remember your post then you announced kinda emotionally that you were "shocked" to find out from a family member. In any event I'm glad you investigated your Marrano roots and moved on.

:)

[Ponce]

Sorry Book but I never even mentioned this to my people........how to prove what I said?, go to search and write "Jews with Spanish names" an you will see my name there.........but like I said before, no evidence elsewhere of that.

Even when I read something against the "Jews" I always have to find the same thing in "at least" five different writtins before I believe it and one of them must be from THEIR own link.

If you guide yourself by "They only tell us what they want us to know, or what they cannot longer hide"... Ponce........you will be ok.

[Nomen luni]

There is something rotten at the core of freemasonry. Now, some of my friends happen to be Masons and are decent folk, but I have also heard something from someone close to me that made me do a double take and think more seriously about some of those 'crazy conspiracy theories' about freemasonry. Can't repeat it as it could land me in legal hot water and I can't prove anything.

Apparently, freemasonry was pivotal in the Russian revolution, according to a BBC documentary. What do you make of this one, Russkie?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwgD6iNbO4M

[AlterEgo]

Apparently, freemasonry was pivotal in the Russian revolution, according to a BBC documentary. What do you make of this one, Russkie?



Quite pivotal in the American revolution also.

[PDT]

however, I only consider to be a "real" Jew only those with a Jewish mother


In other words, you follow the Talmud!

:D ;D :D ;D

[Russkie]

But the fact reemains that I pay $40 per year to visit with my friends, perform rituals, and study how the morality of all great faiths corresponds with objective science (namely geometry).



Hi Russkie, I've been reading you posts since you joined GIM1, I think we had a few short discussions there too.

I usually find your posts very insightful and interesting.

What do you mean by perform rituals, exactly? That kind of stuff throws up red flags for me, unless it is a purely Christian ritual such as a water baptism.

Before I found Christ I studied the occult, such as the works of Aleister Crowley who you mentioned. Some of his stuff was okay, but most of it was pretty f*cked.

He teaches that rituals are used to perform magick (create change in accordance to Will). These can be simple or elaborate.

So the first question here is Russkie, what is the Will of the masons, a group which you give your energy to by practicing magick ritual with them?

And the second question is, why do you find it necessary to try to impose your Will on creation in some way, instead of surrendering to the Divine Will of the Holy Father?

This is what it comes down to. Worship of Self or worship of God.

Worship of Self is a trap.


Hey Striped Bear,

The rituals are neither devotional nor magical in nature. The rituals are desinged to teach ideas, but impart them in a way which is beyond the capacity of language.

Freemasonry is a school, not a church.

The idea is to teach through symbolism, which is more accurate and universal.

We say a prayer at the beginning of the ritual, and address is to God. But the ritual itelf is not a form of worship.

The "will" of the Masons is this;

to take good men and make them better.

If enough people are willing to abide by universal principles, then we can all truly be free, but this must be voluntarily chosen one person at a time.

These universal principles do not need to violate or contradict the religion of any group or person.

You can be any type of spirituality, and embrace the moral and ethical teachings of Freemasonry, because they are based upon geometry.

The Creator of the universe made it in an intelligent way, and gave us humans the ability to understand it intelligently.

He also gave us religion, which is spiritual understanding.

Freemasonry is about understanding spiritual things in an intellectual way, so that we can cooperate with each other in spite of the differences in our understanding.

Because it is free of language and culture, geometry can express a common set of values which does not contradict or offend any religion.

And....

Here's the good part.....

If we can all accept each other, and learn to play by the same set of rules, then things like laws and governments will disappear.

Masonry is not about salvation it is about freedom and harmony.

We were given a gift from God, mainly the ability to THINK. If we apply this ability, we can me moral and ethical, and work together to build an ethical society while still respecting individual differences among groups of people.

You can be a Buddhist, I can be an Orthodox Christian, and he can be a Muslim. Even if we think the other guy is going to hell, we know that on this earth we can accept each other and abide by some VOLUNTARILY CHOSEN things which MAKE SENSE TO US ALL, and in this way we can have peace and freedom.

That's it in a nutshell.

[sirgonzo420]

There is something rotten at the core of freemasonry. Now, some of my friends happen to be Masons and are decent folk, but I have also heard something from someone close to me that made me do a double take and think more seriously about some of those 'crazy conspiracy theories' about freemasonry. Can't repeat it as it could land me in legal hot water and I can't prove anything.

...


Oh, come on! You gotta tell us!

If you want, you can PM me - I won't tell.

My curiosity is killing me!

;D

[hoarder]

There is something rotten at the core of freemasonry. Now, some of my friends happen to be Masons and are decent folk, but I have also heard something from someone close to me that made me do a double take and think more seriously about some of those 'crazy conspiracy theories' about freemasonry. Can't repeat it as it could land me in legal hot water and I can't prove anything.

Apparently, freemasonry was pivotal in the Russian revolution, according to a BBC documentary. What do you make of this one, Russkie?

Jews were pivotal in the Bolshevik revolution. Marx, Lennin and Trotsky were Jews as were most of the top level officers.

This is what I have been explaining all along, Masons are positioned as blame absorbers.

http://newsfromthewest.blogspot.com/2008/12/communism-was-jewish.html
http://newsfromthewest.blogspot.com/2007/05/communism-jewish-creation.html
http://newsfromthewest.blogspot.com/2007/11/jewish-murderers-of-russian-revolution.html
http://newsfromthewest.blogspot.com/2008/10/jewish-communists.html
http://jewishtribalreview.org/commun.htm

[Russkie]

Let me also be clear that the secrecy and connections of Freemasonry HAVE been abused in the past.

It is forbidden to make "groups within the group", but people have done it.

And because Freemasonry has so much knowledge about how human psychology, sociology and political science works, there have been those who would abuse this knowledge.

But the knowledge and its transmission are not to blame. We do our best as gatekeepers, but we're only human.

You see, we make a study of nature, a study of religion, a study of the human psyche, society, government and EVERYTHING.

We have found that it all harmonizes with the principles of geometry, and that geometry provides an excellent, objective and metaplinguistic way in which to communicate about these subjects.

Masonry is light-years ahead of human thought in other quarters.

[Nomen luni]

Oh, come on! You gotta tell us!

If you want, you can PM me - I won't tell.

My curiosity is killing me!

;DSorry buddy, I would love to share this one, especially with a trooper like you, but I really don't want it tallied against my name, even over email.

[Ponce]

PDT? I only follow that which I want to believe in.........like every one else, even if they don't know it, and that's why I like to think outside the circle.

[striped_bear]

Thanks for your reply Russkie:



Hey Striped Bear,

The rituals are neither devotional nor magical in nature. The rituals are desinged to teach ideas, but impart them in a way which is beyond the capacity of language.




Ritual is a language. Why is it necessary to perform the ritual to learn the lesson? Can you provide an example of a masonic ritual, and what it is designed to teach?




Freemasonry is a school, not a church.

The idea is to teach through symbolism, which is more accurate and universal.

We say a prayer at the beginning of the ritual, and address is to God. But the ritual itelf is not a form of worship.

The "will" of the Masons is this;

to take good men and make them better.



How does masonry make good men better?




If enough people are willing to abide by universal principles, then we can all truly be free, but this must be voluntarily chosen one person at a time.

These universal principles do not need to violate or contradict the religion of any group or person.



Christ taught the ultimate universal principle: Love. From this springs Good Fruit.

Can you provide an example of a masonic universal principle?




You can be any type of spirituality, and embrace the moral and ethical teachings of Freemasonry, because they are based upon geometry.

The Creator of the universe made it in an intelligent way, and gave us humans the ability to understand it intelligently.

He also gave us religion, which is spiritual understanding.

Freemasonry is about understanding spiritual things in an intellectual way, so that we can cooperate with each other in spite of the differences in our understanding.



Please give an example of an intellectual understanding of something spiritual.




Because it is free of language and culture, geometry can express a common set of values which does not contradict or offend any religion.



What common set of values does geometry express?




And....

Here's the good part.....

If we can all accept each other, and learn to play by the same set of rules, then things like laws and governments will disappear.

Masonry is not about salvation it is about freedom and harmony.

We were given a gift from God, mainly the ability to THINK. If we apply this ability, we can me moral and ethical, and work together to build an ethical society while still respecting individual differences among groups of people.



God gave us Life and Free Will.

Morality and ethics are some of the by-products of being indwelt by the Holy Spirit. They are a fruit of the Spirit.

One does not need to think with their mind, to know what is right or wrong. Only to listen to God's voice in their heart.

The human mind is actually an obstacle to experiencing God. When you are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, the Lord begins "cleaning house", so to speak, transforming both your body and your mind. Many fruits of the Spirit will blossom, one of which is an unending pouring of Divine Love into the world from your heart.

Love thy neighbor. Where there is Love there is respect.




You can be a Buddhist, I can be an Orthodox Christian, and he can be a Muslim. Even if we think the other guy is going to hell, we know that on this earth we can accept each other and abide by some VOLUNTARILY CHOSEN things which MAKE SENSE TO US ALL, and in this way we can have peace and freedom.



What are the voluntarily chosen things?




That's it in a nutshell.



You've mentioned geometry as a means of communicating something, in which case it is then being used as a language.

Have you heard of sacred geometry (I am sure you have)? Sacred geometry is basically a tool for getting one beyond the mind, so one can experience the Supreme. Like a Zen koan.

In this case, ascribing meaning to geometry is actually a hindrance. A way for the mind to feel comfortable about what it is experiencing, to prevent disidentification with the ego (which the ego perceives as its own death).

Freemasonry seems to meet the definition of a religion (from wikipedia):


Aspects of religion include narrative, symbolism, beliefs, and practices that are supposed to give meaning to the practitioner's experiences of life. Whether the meaning centers on a deity or deities, or an ultimate truth, religion is commonly identified by the practitioner's prayer, ritual, meditation, music and art, among other things, and is often interwoven with society and politics. It may focus on specific supernatural, metaphysical, and moral claims about reality (the cosmos and human nature) which may yield a set of religious laws and ethics and a particular lifestyle. Religion also encompasses ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and religious experience.

I am genuinely happy to be discussing this with you Russkie. Please don't think I am being sarcastic or disrespectful in my replies, as I intend neither.

- sb

[sirgonzo420]

Oh, come on! You gotta tell us!

If you want, you can PM me - I won't tell.

My curiosity is killing me!

;DSorry buddy, I would love to share this one, especially with a trooper like you, but I really don't want it tallied against my name, even over email.


haha, if you say so!

I'll just take your word that you got some juicy details!

[Ponce]

Same thread as the one from "Islam" years ago.........that was a good one and I learned a lot from him.

[greenbear]

Every Christian should read this book:


http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/cc/af/10d0b340dca08978586c9010.L.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/Masonry-Beyond-Light-William-Schnoebelen/dp/0937958387/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1270477632&sr=1-1

[Ponce]

Man can write what ever they want about you call "religion" but there is no book that you can be compared to the one that mother nature shows you every day.

A walk in the woods will show all that you need to know about "God", which I call "The Force".

[striped_bear]

Man can write what ever they want about you call "religion" but there is no book that you can be compared to the one that mother nature shows you every day.

A walk in the woods will show all that you need to know about "God", which I call "The Force".


Hi Ponce,

"The Force" is real and we just happen to be talking about the same thing, using different words.

sb

[sirgonzo420]

Man can write what ever they want about you call "religion" but there is no book that you can be compared to the one that mother nature shows you every day.

A walk in the woods will show all that you need to know about "God", which I call "The Force".


Hi Ponce,

"The Force" is real and we just happen to be talking about the same thing, using different words.

sb


"the Force" is fitting...

Sometimes I'll call it "that which men have called God"

[Ponce]

To talk about what we don't know is like jumping in the ocean without knowing how to swim.

People talk about "God" but only because it has been implanted in their mind (brain washing) and not because "God" has told them what he, she or it is.

Up till now I have found out that ALL religions works in the same way......with repetition's of the same words over and over again till such a time that they hypnotized themselves into oblivion.

Look at the way that the Muslims and the Jews pray, with rapid body movements and the Christian paralyze and with no emotions........but all of them repeating the same words over and over again and again.

[striped_bear]

To talk about what we don't know is like jumping in the ocean without knowing how to swim.

People talk about "God" but only because it has been implanted in their mind (brain washing) and not because "God" has told them what he, she or it is.

Up till now I have found out that ALL religions works in the same way......with repetition's of the same words over and over again till such a time that they hypnotized themselves into oblivion.

Look at the way that the Muslims and the Jews pray, with rapid body movements and the Christian paralyze and with no emotions........but all of them repeating the same words over and over again and again.

You're right, the ego can never know or understand God.

To experience God you must go beyond the mind. God is simply a name for That Which is Beyond Understanding of the Human Mind.

You're right about the repetition stuff, it's a method used to bypass the mind.

Yogis call in mantra meditation.

[StackerKen]

Man can write what ever they want about you call "religion" but there is no book that you can be compared to the one that mother nature shows you every day.

We are hijacking this thread....oh well

A walk in the woods will show all that you need to know about "God", which I call "The Force".


Ponce you can call it what ever you want.

When I walk though the woods and observe nature, I see that there is a designer involved.

A intelligent designer..and architect

Can a "force" be that?

[sirgonzo420]

Man can write what ever they want about you call "religion" but there is no book that you can be compared to the one that mother nature shows you every day.

We are hijacking this thread....oh well

A walk in the woods will show all that you need to know about "God", which I call "The Force".


Ponce you can call it what ever you want.

When I walk though the woods and observe nature, I see that there is a designer involved.

A intelligent designer..and architect

Can a "force" be that?




Absolutely.

[Ponce]

From Star War..........The Force is that which is everything and is everywhere.

Stark? sorry about highjacking the thread

[StackerKen]

thanks for responding Sirgonzo....I like your answer

I hope to here more from you about your thoughts

Ponce...I am guilty of hijacking also...

Lets take it here maybe?

http://gold-silver.us/forum/index.php?topic=536.0

[rodin]

I have had friends who were Masons. In 1978 I was thrown in jail for drunk driving. My girlfriend went and talked to our friend/neighbor who was a Mason. He drove her to the jailhouse and shook hands with the Constable/Mason and I was free!


I rest my case

[mick silver]

Man can write what ever they want about you call "religion" but there is no book that you can be compared to the one that mother nature shows you every day.

A walk in the woods will show all that you need to know about "God", which I call "The Force".
thanks ponce that a real good way to look at it .... there times i just set in the woods and look around and know someone great had to do the work

[PDT]

The Force comes from God...it is not God.

[PDT]

I have had friends who were Masons. In 1978 I was thrown in jail for drunk driving. My girlfriend went and talked to our friend/neighbor who was a Mason. He drove her to the jailhouse and shook hands with the Constable/Mason and I was free!


I rest my case


Yes, that pretty much ended the discussion about whether Masons are beneficial to our society.

[sirgonzo420]

Yes, that pretty much ended the discussion about whether Masons are beneficial to our society.


It depends on what side you're on!

[Low_five]

smite.

[PDT]

smite.


Is that a comment or an instruction? ;D

[PDT]

It depends on what side you're on!


Brother Gonzo, "is there no help for the widow's son?"

[sirgonzo420]

It depends on what side you're on!


Brother Gonzo, "is there no help for the widow's son?"


Are you a fellow traveler?

edit: I'm not a freemason, or otherwise a member of a secret society.

[Fudup]

Ok, I read through all that, and I am not sure I believe a word any of you write! :P

Except the "smite" post. LoL ;D

Besides, I prefer "nuke"

[illumin19]

And I'm here.

I'm also a staunch Orthodox Christian.

So "Christos Voskres" or "Happy Easter".

I know most of you think Masons control the world. Who the hell knows, all I know is that me and the Masons I know are just regular people.





If the masons are based on mathematics, why do they end at 33 instead of 360 degrees forming a COMPLETE circle?
I heard thru the grapevine it had something to do with Jesus' (alayhi wa sallam) ministry ending at that age. Any idea?
Do they reference alot to "Solomon's (alayhi wa sallam) Temple"?

Thanks

[Russkie]

And I'm here.

I'm also a staunch Orthodox Christian.

So "Christos Voskres" or "Happy Easter".

I know most of you think Masons control the world. Who the hell knows, all I know is that me and the Masons I know are just regular people.





If the masons are based on mathematics, why do they end at 33 instead of 360 degrees forming a COMPLETE circle?
I heard thru the grapevine it had something to do with Jesus' (alayhi wa sallam) ministry ending at that age. Any idea?
Do they reference alot to "Solomon's (alayhi wa sallam) Temple"?

Thanks


The degrees are not meant to form a circle.

I am not aware of the Jesus connection.

The inside of the Lodge is a kind of interactive theater made in the form of Solomon's Temple. Participation in the teaching plays (people get bent out of shape by the word "ritual") is meant to reinforce symbolic ideas first encountered in a very dramatic way during initiation.

Solomon's Temple is used because Masons use to transmit these teachings at the real site of Solomon's Temple in Jerusalem, when we were Knights Templars.

It is thought that building the Temple of God on earth means to make yourself capable of living as a free man, in harmony with God's order in the cosmos.

When you learn to be free, you then become a building block in God's Temple on earth, meaning that peace and harmony has a chance to reign.

God sent down plans for how His temple was to be constructed, and if those plans were followed, He would come down and grace this temple with His inhabitation.

Likewise, Holy Scripture is God's Plan for building a different kind of temple on Earth.

If we truly learn the lessons of Holy Scripture, and how these lessons relate to both the natural world and our own humanity, we can be a component in a structure which God can inhabit.

In other words, if we are all good and moral people (in spite of our differences), God can give us the blessings of peace, freedom and harmony which He is waiting to give all of us collectively.

[Russkie]

It depends on what side you're on!


Brother Gonzo, "is there no help for the widow's son?"


Are you a fellow traveler?

edit: I'm not a freemason, or otherwise a member of a secret society.


If you want to know why the Masons have been a secret society, simply look at the number of smites next to my name.

The content of this thread is the only thing I have written at this site, yet it is enough for people to judge and condemn.

Luckily, they don't have the power to burn me at the stake, as Masons were in the past.

In order to survive, Masonry had to go through a period where is was very secretive.

Now, almost all of the information is available on the web.

But....

Having the information does not make you a Mason.

You are a Mason when you participate in the teaching dramas, and let them unfold to give you a new world-view, and begin to make this real in your life.

Secret handshakes and oaths are not Masonry.

Men who have internalized the lessons of the lodge, make them real, and pass them on- THESE are Masons.

[StackerKen]

In other words, if we are all good and moral people (in spite of our differences), God can give us the blessings of peace, freedom and harmony which He is waiting to give all of us collectively.


Thats sounds Like a Works doctrine too me.

Russkie ; You should know that is not Sound Christian Doctrine.

You should also know, that in our Flesh, we can not be good and moral enough.

So your statement that i quoted above really confuses me.

[Ponce]

If you are ever in trouble in a court house all that you have to do is to ask if there is a "traveler" present.........if there is one you then will go free.

[hoarder]

Russkie, you didn't get any of those smites from me. I think you are being sincere.

What level of awareness is there among Masons that their Jewish members have disavowed their masonic vows before taking them?

The Kol Nidre:
http://rense.com/general45/kol.htm

[Percival]

TUBAL CAIN.

[sirgonzo420]

TUBAL CAIN.




I see your Tubal Cain, and I raise you a Hiram Abiff!

[Percival]

TUBAL CAIN.




I see your Tubal Cain, and I raise you a Hiram Abiff!




Call!


Really, the only way to find out if someone is really a Mason is to ask them for a specific answer to the question, "What you come here to do?"


There are various answers on the net but none of them are the right answer.

[Percival]

The answer is exactly 11 words.

[sirgonzo420]

To learn to subdue my passions and improve myself in Masonry.

[Percival]

Yes, your first attempt is an outdated version, the second one is the proper answer, if someone asks you that and you answer correctly they will likely go one step further and ask you something that they know is not something you can find in a book or on the net (and there are still such things in Masonry that have not been disclosed) but if they dont, you may be able to pass yourself off.

[sirgonzo420]

Yes, your first attempt is an outdated version, the second one is the proper answer, if someone asks you that and you answer correctly they will likely go one step further and ask you something that they know is not something you can find in a book or on the net (and there are still such things in Masonry that have not been disclosed) but if they dont, you may be able to pass yourself off.


Yeah, Masonry does still have some secrets left...


Like how the profane have 'God' and 'Lucifer' mixed up....

[Percival]

Yes, your first attempt is an outdated version, the second one is the proper answer, if someone asks you that and you answer correctly they will likely go one step further and ask you something that they know is not something you can find in a book or on the net (and there are still such things in Masonry that have not been disclosed) but if they dont, you may be able to pass yourself off.


Yeah, Masonry does still have some secrets left...


Like how the profane have 'God' and 'Lucifer' mixed up....
http://comps.fotosearch.com/comp/SUE/SUE107/fish-worm-hook_~CHCL0092.jpg ;D

[sirgonzo420]

http://comps.fotosearch.com/comp/SUE/SUE107/fish-worm-hook_~CHCL0092.jpg ;D



hahaha... ya got me.

In time, you won't be able to help yourself though...

[Russkie]

In other words, if we are all good and moral people (in spite of our differences), God can give us the blessings of peace, freedom and harmony which He is waiting to give all of us collectively.


Thats sounds Like a Works doctrine too me.

Russkie ; You should know that is not Sound Christian Doctrine.

You should also know, that in our Flesh, we can not be good and moral enough.

So your statement that i quoted above really confuses me.


Ken, Freemasonry is not about salvation.

It is not religion.

It is a society where men of different faiths can put the ethical principles of their religion into practice in a peaceful way.

I have a different covnenant with Christ.

[Russkie]

TUBAL CAIN.




I see your Tubal Cain, and I raise you a Hiram Abiff!




Call!


Really, the only way to find out if someone is really a Mason is to ask them for a specific answer to the question, "What you come here to do?"


There are various answers on the net but none of them are the right answer.


You guys have got it all wrong.....

Those words are said at a different time, in a different context.

The ritual of identification uses words and gestures which are not written down anywhere.

I hope it's entertaining for y'all, but it really has nothing to do with modern Freemasonry. Those things helped us identify each other in the days before driver's licenses.

I have an embossed dues card now.

[Percival]

Dude, thats the whole point. Keep them amused. :P

[sirgonzo420]

The secrecy in masonry isn't in who is a mason, it's in what masonry is really about.

I get the impression that many 'porch masons' (some of which are identifiable by special license plates) may not realize that those 'higher up' are luciferians.

[Josey]

The secrecy in masonry isn't in who is a mason, it's in what masonry is really about.

I get the impression that many 'porch masons' (some of which are identifiable by special license plates) may not realize that those 'higher up' are luciferians.



True,
Whats really funny is they think to make good men better it has to be a secret, If they had a secret that world make the world a better place why Hide it?
Unless it is a agenda.

[Percival]

Pearls and Swine.

Yes, I know that doesnt sound nice but its true, most people are simply incapable of applying that sort of information in a responsible matter. The process within Masonry quickly weeds them out, thats the purpose of it, in fact.

[sirgonzo420]

Pearls and Swine.


hahaha!

What are the pearls of masonry?

:oink:

[Josey]

Pearls and Swine.

Oh Bullshit, Its an agenda...... If you had pearls to give, then give them freely or continue on collecting dues for them.
Pearls of wisdom for sale, join me and recieve thy gifts.

Save your money men, if the teachings of Christ don't show you how be live honorably, paying someone to brain wash you isn't going to help.

[sirgonzo420]

Oh Bullsh*t, Its an agenda...... If you had pearls to give, then give them freely or continue on collecting dues for them.
Pearls of wisdom for sale, join me and recieve thy gifts.

Save your money men, if the teachings of Christ don't show you how be live honorably, paying someone to brain wash you isn't going to help.


What about Scientology? Their dues are more expensive than the masons... perhaps their brand of enlightenment is more sublime?

[Uncle Salty]

Masons: A satanic worshiping group at the core, a seemingly decent secret group at the minion level. The minions are the tools of the satan worshipers but have no idea.

Just another tool of the Reptilians to keep the masses controlled.

[StackerKen]

In other words, if we are all good and moral people (in spite of our differences), God can give us the blessings of peace, freedom and harmony which He is waiting to give all of us collectively.


Thats sounds Like a Works doctrine too me.

Russkie ; You should know that is not Sound Christian Doctrine.

You should also know, that in our Flesh, we can not be good and moral enough.

So your statement that i quoted above really confuses me.


Ken, Freemasonry is not about salvation.

It is not religion.

It is a society where men of different faiths can put the ethical principles of their religion into practice in a peaceful way.

I have a different covnenant with Christ.


Ok Russkie. I am not trying to attack you.
Just trying to understand
But, now that last statement (the one I put in bold) Has me Curious.
You mean a " different covenant" than I do?
or a "different covenant" than most Christians?

Or a "different covenant" than the rest of the masons?

This "different covenant" might make a good thread in the Religion and Philosophy forum

[Percival]

Pearls and Swine.

Oh Bullsh*t, Its an agenda...... If you had pearls to give, then give them freely or continue on collecting dues for them.
Pearls of wisdom for sale, join me and recieve thy gifts.

Save your money men, if the teachings of Christ don't show you how be live honorably, paying someone to brain wash you isn't going to help.
Lets see, the Masons have had their hands in every revolution to overthrow tyrants in history. Christians have what, the stain of the Crusades and Inquisition and being responsible for more death and mayhem than any other religion around.

I think its clear where the honor lies.

[StackerKen]

a lot of these posts pose a good question....

Why the secrecy Ruskie??

[Nomen luni]

Masons: A satanic worshiping group at the core, a seemingly decent secret group at the minion level. The minions are the tools of the satan worshipers but have no idea.Quite possibly.


Just another tool of the Reptilians to keep the masses controlled.They're not reptilians. They're fish.... red herrings to be precise. Their purpose is to make you discount the first statement by association.

[Percival]

a lot of these posts pose a good question....

Why the secrecy Ruskie??


It is NOT secret, there is just a certain process you need to go through to PREPARE you for the information.

[DMac]

Percival,

Are you a Mason?

[Josey]

Pearls and Swine.

Oh Bullsh*t, Its an agenda...... If you had pearls to give, then give them freely or continue on collecting dues for them.
Pearls of wisdom for sale, join me and recieve thy gifts.

Save your money men, if the teachings of Christ don't show you how be live honorably, paying someone to brain wash you isn't going to help.
Lets see, the Masons have had their hands in every revolution to overthrow tyrants in history. Christians have what, the stain of the Crusades and Inquisition and being responsible for more death and mayhem than any other religion around.

I think its clear where the honor lies.


Youre living in the past, Join us here in 2010.....

[Percival]

Pearls and Swine.

Oh Bullsh*t, Its an agenda...... If you had pearls to give, then give them freely or continue on collecting dues for them.
Pearls of wisdom for sale, join me and recieve thy gifts.

Save your money men, if the teachings of Christ don't show you how be live honorably, paying someone to brain wash you isn't going to help.
Lets see, the Masons have had their hands in every revolution to overthrow tyrants in history. Christians have what, the stain of the Crusades and Inquisition and being responsible for more death and mayhem than any other religion around.

I think its clear where the honor lies.


Youre living in the past, Join us here in 2010.....


Masonry TODAY is a lot less harmless than right wing christianity, take Gingrich and the Christian Coalition for example. What did the Masons do for this nation? Oh, they only founded it, fought for it and wrote its Constitution and Bill of Rights.

[Josey]

Wasn't the Masons part of the crusades?

[Book]

Christians have what, the stain of the Crusades and Inquisition and being responsible for more death and mayhem than any other religion around.


http://gazaholocaust.com/

:o

[Percival]

Wasn't the Masons part of the crusades?
No, that would be the Templar Knights, they were not Masons, they were the security and banking wing of the Vatican. They later had a falling out with the church and made an attempt to hide within Masonry but nothing ever came of it that I have found. The Illuminati did the same.

[Percival]

Percival,

Are you a Mason?
Id rather not bring my personal life in to this, its not going to do any good here.

[sirgonzo420]

Percival,

Are you a Mason?
Id rather not bring my personal life in to this, its not going to do any good here.


Hahaha no... I'd agree... It won't do you any good!

anyway, as for Percival's posts: res ipsa loquitur

[NOOB]

I'm a drywall contractor does that get me a secret handshake?





I am too and if there is a secret handshake nobody's told me about it.

[Percival]

Percival,

Are you a Mason?
Id rather not bring my personal life in to this, its not going to do any good here.


Hahaha no... I'd agree... It won't do you any good!

anyway, as for Percival's posts: res ipsa loquitur
Yes, the facts are obvious enough that this party need to speak no more. The thing speaks for itself. ;D

[NOOB]

Percival, This isn't going to be as exciting with you being all friendly and shit. It was much more fun with the feigning ignorance and trolling.

[Percival]

Percival, This isn't going to be as exciting with you being all friendly and sh*t. It was much more fun with the feigning ignorance and trolling.
;D

Dude I have only been here a few hours, let me feel the place out before we go there.

[sirgonzo420]

Percival, This isn't going to be as exciting with you being all friendly and sh*t. It was much more fun with the feigning ignorance and trolling.
;D

Dude I have only been here a few hours, let me feel the place out before we go there.


Don't worry, we have faith in you.

[willie pete]

I'm not a mason, but I know one :D


http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/1333/perrymasonn.jpg (http://img188.imageshack.us/i/perrymasonn.jpg/)

[StackerKen]

Wasn't the Masons part of the crusades?
No, that would be the Templar Knights, they were not Masons, they were the security and banking wing of the Vatican. They later had a falling out with the church and made an attempt to hide within Masonry but nothing ever came of it that I have found. The Illuminati did the same.



Conflicting info in bold





The degrees are not meant to form a circle.

I am not aware of the Jesus connection.

The inside of the Lodge is a kind of interactive theater made in the form of Solomon's Temple. Participation in the teaching plays (people get bent out of shape by the word "ritual") is meant to reinforce symbolic ideas first encountered in a very dramatic way during initiation.

Solomon's Temple is used because Masons use to transmit these teachings at the real site of Solomon's Temple in Jerusalem, when we were Knights Templars.

It is thought that building the Temple of God on earth means to make yourself capable of living as a free man, in harmony with God's order in the cosmos.

When you learn to be free, you then become a building block in God's Temple on earth, meaning that peace and harmony has a chance to reign.

God sent down plans for how His temple was to be constructed, and if those plans were followed, He would come down and grace this temple with His inhabitation.

Likewise, Holy Scripture is God's Plan for building a different kind of temple on Earth.

If we truly learn the lessons of Holy Scripture, and how these lessons relate to both the natural world and our own humanity, we can be a component in a structure which God can inhabit.

In other words, if we are all good and moral people (in spite of our differences), God can give us the blessings of peace, freedom and harmony which He is waiting to give all of us collectively.

[Bullion_Bob]

Kill the witch!

Kill the witch!

:D

[oldmansmith]

I'm not a Mason, but I did build my fireplace.

Seriously, any club that won't tell you what's up until you reach 33rd degree or whatever bullsh*t level is not a club I'm joining. I'd rather join the Royal Order of Water Buffaloes with Fred Flintstone.

[Russkie]

In other words, if we are all good and moral people (in spite of our differences), God can give us the blessings of peace, freedom and harmony which He is waiting to give all of us collectively.


Thats sounds Like a Works doctrine too me.

Russkie ; You should know that is not Sound Christian Doctrine.

You should also know, that in our Flesh, we can not be good and moral enough.

So your statement that i quoted above really confuses me.


Ken, Freemasonry is not about salvation.

It is not religion.

It is a society where men of different faiths can put the ethical principles of their religion into practice in a peaceful way.

I have a different covnenant with Christ.


Ok Russkie. I am not trying to attack you.
Just trying to understand
But, now that last statement (the one I put in bold) Has me Curious.
You mean a " different covenant" than I do?
or a "different covenant" than most Christians?

Or a "different covenant" than the rest of the masons?

This "different covenant" might make a good thread in the Religion and Philosophy forum


My covenant with my fellow Masons is that we will all abide by the same moral principles, and make these principles active in our lives, regardless of our religious or political differences.

My covenant with Christ is that He died for my sins and offers me the Kingom of the coming world.

[Russkie]

a lot of these posts pose a good question....

Why the secrecy Ruskie??


The secrecy has three reasons....

1. It is tradition left over from the time when to be a Mason meant to risk being put to death by the powers of both Church and State.

2. There are certain initiatory teaching rituals which work best if you don't know about them until you experience them for the first time. Masonry teaches through symbolism and allegory, and the experience is more vivid if you have it beyond words, without having experienced or known about it before.

3. People will take the symbolism and speculate on it in a way not intended by Masons. This could cause more harm than good.

Thats it.

If you research Masonry today, you will find it to be a very open organization.

If you cling to your misconceptions and preconcieved ideas, then you are precisely the type who will distort Masonic symbology in one way or another, and it is best to keep it from you.

[Russkie]

Wasn't the Masons part of the crusades?


If you want to get back ito the nitty gritty of it, the Masons represent the Templars, the Sufis, the Neo-Platonists and the Pythagoreans.

These were all folks who were looking to see how spirituality interfaced with and was proven by science and math and geometry.

The study of geometry and the use of our mind will help us understand our individual faiths more deeply (and inderstand how they exist within God's intelligently created Cosmos).

The study of geometry lets us see how our moral and ethical concepts coincide with the religions and ideas of other groups.

So even though we may disagree on the spiritual side of things, we can live according to the same moral system in the meantime.

The Masons were a product of the Crusades, as warrior monastic orders came into contact with the mysteries of the ancient world which were preserved in the east.

Masonry has led us out of the dark ages and into the age of freedom of scientific inquiry, religious tolerance and fundamental human rights.

[Russkie]

I'm not a Mason, but I did build my fireplace.

Seriously, any club that won't tell you what's up until you reach 33rd degree or whatever bullsh*t level is not a club I'm joining. I'd rather join the Royal Order of Water Buffaloes with Fred Flintstone.




This is a myth.

I have close friends who are 33rd degree.

And there is nothing about my Masonic affiliation (or ANY Mason I know) which makes me obligated to do anything for anybody which is against my morality, against my religion, or against my will.

If you want to know the truth, you can have it.

If you are ready.....

.....and that is the simple mesage of Freemasonry.

Most people are simply not ready.

[sirgonzo420]

This is a myth.

I have close friends who are 33rd degree.

And there is nothing about my Masonic affiliation (or ANY Mason I know) which makes me obligated to do anything for anybody which is against my morality, against my religion, or against my will.

If you want to know the truth, you can have it.

If you are ready.....

.....and that is the simple mesage of Freemasonry.

Most people are simply not ready.


Most people are not ready for what?

Blood oaths and secret handshakes?

What is the big secret that separates the adepts from the profane?

What is "the truth"?

[Horn]

Most people are not ready for what?

Blood oaths and secret handshakes?

What is the big secret that separates the adepts from the profane?

What is "the truth"?



They like to express the truth in mathematical terms, the equation for Truth is;

pie x U = 0, or not enough pieces left for me.

[General of Darkness]

A Russian who claims to be a mason is most definitely in league with the khazar and should be removed from our midst. Just being honest.

[sirgonzo420]

A Russian who claims to be a mason is most definitely in league with the khazar and should be removed from our midst. Just being honest.


Why should he be removed?

[General of Darkness]

A Russian who claims to be a mason is most definitely in league with the khazar and should be removed from our midst. Just being honest.


Why should he be removed?




Well I don't mean banned, maybe a separation of his head from his body.

[sirgonzo420]

A Russian who claims to be a mason is most definitely in league with the khazar and should be removed from our midst. Just being honest.


Why should he be removed?




Well I don't mean banned, maybe a separation of his head from his body.


Ok...

Whew... there for a second I thought you were advocating a banning!

(besides, Russkie probably swore under penalty of decapitation for telling us his secrets!)

[Russkie]

A Russian who claims to be a mason is most definitely in league with the khazar and should be removed from our midst. Just being honest.


Why should he be removed?




Well I don't mean banned, maybe a separation of his head from his body.


If you ever meet me, you're welcome to take your chances.

First time I've ever been threatened like this on a gold-silver forum.

Now you know why Masons keep it secret, because of booger-eating, sister-humping pea brains who would just as soon spit tobbaco juice in your eye as listen to you.

I'm an American and a Marine Corps veteran of war.

I belong to the Sons of the American Revolution.

And I'm a descendant of the Jamestown colonists.

And my brother Masons wrote the Constitution and Bill of Rights, and founded the USA.

So you should remove yourself from MY country.

Just being honest......

[hoarder]

Russkie,
I was hoping you would respond to my question about the Kol Nidre. I do not agree with all the Masonhate on this thread, as I don't believe everyday rank-and-file Masons are bad people.

I'll give you an example of incompatible vows. Do you remember John Kerry, the Jewish candidate for POTUS in 2004? Kerry was not only a Jew, which means he participates in the Kol Nidre, but he was also Mason and a member of the CFR.

Have you ever wondered how someone can take a vow with the CFR and Masons after nullifying all vows in advance at Kol Nidre, then if he got elected as President he would have taken a nul and void vow to the office of POTUS? That would be a total of 4 vows.

How can all these vows be compatible with each other? I don't have to understand any vows other than the Kol Nidre to understand that they are not compatible.

[Russkie]

Russkie,
I was hoping you would respond to my question about the Kol Nidre. I do not agree with all the Masonhate on this thread, as I don't believe everyday rank-and-file Masons are bad people.

I'll give you an example of incompatible vows. Do you remember John Kerry, the Jewish candidate for POTUS in 2004? Kerry was not only a Jew, which means he participates in the Kol Nidre, but he was also Mason and a member of the CFR.

Have you ever wondered how someone can take a vow with the CFR and Masons after nullifying all vows in advance at Kol Nidre, then if he got elected as President he would have taken a nul and void vow to the office of POTUS? That would be a total of 4 vows.

How can all these vows be compatible with each other? I don't have to understand any vows other than the Kol Nidre to understand that they are not compatible.


I don't understand anything about special Jewish nullifications of vows.

If a Mason does not abide by his vows, he is not a Mason.

What I tried to point out is that there is no connection between "rank and file Masons" and some conspiracy.

The highest Masonic entity I belong to is the Grand Lodge of Michigan. Look at the membership roster and activities of the members, if you want to know what kind of people we are.

The people in my lodge pay $40 per year to be members, and get together once a month to have dinner and discuss very mundane things about who is sick, what activities we'll do on family picnic day, stuff like that.

There is no talk of politics, and no business networking is allowed.

I've never used any Masonic connection for personal benefit, and don't know anyone who has.

Masons do the degrees in the lodge, joke, have brotherhood and get away from the wives for a few hours.

If you take it in your head to believe the conspiracy, then have fun with it, but understand it has no basis in reality.


Let me tell you something which may put in perspective how irritating people's beliefs about you can be....

Here in Russia, it is a popular belief that America is such a violent and criminal country because all the low class criminals from Eurpoe were deported to America.

They think Americans are genetically inferior and stupid, because they represent the garbage of Europe.

No matter how many times you tell them about noble people who loved freedom enough to risk carving out a civilization from stark wilderness, they'll NEVER give up their belief that Americans are just a bunch of low-class criminals.

How does that feel?

Russian misconceptions about Americans are JUST LIKE people's misconceptions of Masons.

[Tumbleweed]

This is a talk given by John Todd about the illuminatti and the free masons. At 16 min. in to his talk he explains how you become a 33 degree mason. You have to participate in a human blood sacrifice.



http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4797172096740150104#

[Horn]

who would just as soon spit tobbaco juice in your eye as listen to you.
[/quote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sh0wr7HH8Y

[General of Darkness]

If you ever meet me, you're welcome to take your chances.

First time I've ever been threatened like this on a gold-silver forum.

Now you know why Masons keep it secret, because of booger-eating, sister-humping pea brains who would just as soon spit tobbaco juice in your eye as listen to you.

I'm an American and a Marine Corps veteran of war.

I belong to the Sons of the American Revolution.

And I'm a descendant of the Jamestown colonists.

And my brother Masons wrote the Constitution and Bill of Rights, and founded the USA.

So you should remove yourself from MY country.

Just being honest......


So on let me get this straight.

1 - You think I threatened you? LMAO I was merely stating that your head isn't on correctly.

2 - You said you're an American Marine. But have the name Russkie, sounds self hating to me.

3 - You belong to the Sons of American Revolution. Now WTF are they, and what have they done that's been in the interest of this country?

4 - You're a descendant of the Jamestown colonists. That's actually pretty cool and I'm sure they're proud of what this diverse country has become.

5 - Your brother masons wrote the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Well I can't deny that the founders were masons, just as much as I can't deny that this country under your families long tutelage has allowed ZOG to take it over, that's mostly in direct conflict with the interests of your family that's alive.

6 - So you should remove yourself from MY country. Well if YOUR mason buddies, and FAMILY I might add, would have done a better job, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. However, I'm working on removing myself from this country, it's just taking longer than expected.

Here's a question, after I leave will this country, will this place be better off without me, and more in your interests?

[hoarder]

I don't understand anything about special Jewish nullifications of vows. That does not surprise me, most people don't. Masons have more reasons than most people to make it their business to read two pages about the Kol Nidre. http://rense.com/general45/kol.htm Their Jewish members Masonic vows don't count.


If a Mason does not abide by his vows, he is not a Mason. But if other Masons don't know his vows have been nullified and are not to be takes seriously how would they know he's not a Mason when he still comes to all the meetings.


What I tried to point out is that there is no connection between "rank and file Masons" and some conspiracy.
I agree with you.



Here in Russia, it is a popular belief that America is such a violent and criminal country because all the low class criminals from Eurpoe were deported to America.

They think Americans are genetically inferior and stupid, because they represent the garbage of Europe.

No matter how many times you tell them about noble people who loved freedom enough to risk carving out a civilization from stark wilderness, they'll NEVER give up their belief that Americans are just a bunch of low-class criminals.

How does that feel?

Russian misconceptions about Americans are JUST LIKE people's misconceptions of Masons.
Nice analogy about misconceptions, Russkie, but you could apply it to anything you don't understand and say it's a misconception. This really makes no point.

[Hugginator]

Russkie, if you stretch this out 50 pages I'll convert. Muahahahahahaha!

[cigarlover]

Can you make me one of these?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hvyf-uypeNE




And I'm here.

I'm also a staunch Orthodox Christian.

So "Christos Voskres" or "Happy Easter".

I know most of you think Masons control the world. Who the hell knows, all I know is that me and the Masons I know are just regular people.

This site has an anti-mason core, but if you want to seriously talk about masonic practice and philosophy, I'll discuss everything openly. If you read me at GIM, you know I'm a straight shooter.

I'm on here and on GIM2, because I'm waiting to see how both will shape up.

And quite frankly, the whole shut down of the old site seems kind of fishy, and no one offered a good explanation.

I think the domain might have been sold or something. Weird.

What's the official conspiracy theory?

[Fanakapan]

Most of 'The Founders' were Masons.

[Russkie]

Russkie, if you stretch this out 50 pages I'll convert. Muahahahahahaha!


Why do you think we'd accept you?

[Russkie]

If you ever meet me, you're welcome to take your chances.

First time I've ever been threatened like this on a gold-silver forum.

Now you know why Masons keep it secret, because of booger-eating, sister-humping pea brains who would just as soon spit tobbaco juice in your eye as listen to you.

I'm an American and a Marine Corps veteran of war.

I belong to the Sons of the American Revolution.

And I'm a descendant of the Jamestown colonists.

And my brother Masons wrote the Constitution and Bill of Rights, and founded the USA.

So you should remove yourself from MY country.

Just being honest......


So on let me get this straight.

1 - You think I threatened you? LMAO I was merely stating that your head isn't on correctly.

2 - You said you're an American Marine. But have the name Russkie, sounds self hating to me.

3 - You belong to the Sons of American Revolution. Now WTF are they, and what have they done that's been in the interest of this country?

4 - You're a descendant of the Jamestown colonists. That's actually pretty cool and I'm sure they're proud of what this diverse country has become.

5 - Your brother masons wrote the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Well I can't deny that the founders were masons, just as much as I can't deny that this country under your families long tutelage has allowed ZOG to take it over, that's mostly in direct conflict with the interests of your family that's alive.

6 - So you should remove yourself from MY country. Well if YOUR mason buddies, and FAMILY I might add, would have done a better job, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. However, I'm working on removing myself from this country, it's just taking longer than expected.

Here's a question, after I leave will this country, will this place be better off without me, and more in your interests?


If it weren't for my ancestors and the Masons, you wouldn't be enjoying your right to post your drivel on the internet.

This is perhaps the most embarassing aspect of our legacy....

[DMac]

Wow, conceit much Russkie? Also, don't you think it is a bit hypocritical to associate yourself with these men of the past when you go by the name "Russkie" and no longer live in the US? Identity crisis much? I know you've gotten some heat posting in this thread as you have and I commend you for putting yourself out there like this.

However, some of what I'm reading comes across more of a self imposed ego boost than one on a journey for knowledge through the inspiration of the holy spirit.


The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to justify it.

I agree with JFK here. A member of a secret society, by its very nature, becomes culpable to the activities of others he is either directly, or indirectly supporting. Ignorance is no purifier.

I will never understand why someone needs to join a club to do good deeds or to make himself "better". That's the kind of crap weak minds tell themselves when they cannot muster the will power (read DISCIPLINE - the #1 factor missing in western culture) to do it on one's own. There is always a ladle needing a hand down at your local soup kitchen. One can always speak to his neighbors about working together to fix up or help out in the local town. Examples like this can go on and on...

Also, as a general verbal lashing to the board, the founding fathers of the US were not some group of near perfect men! How quickly some of you forget your history.

It was the inclusion of men with contacts in secret societies in the higher levels of government that brought the Squid over from Europe, concealed in the cloak of usury.

The founding fathers destroyed the currency. They implemented a central bank.

I take the pearls before swine approach when waxing poetically to myself about them but do not put them on a pedestal, some of the founders never repented for the great evil they brought to this land.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Alexander_Hamilton_Grave.JPG/170px-Alexander_Hamilton_Grave.JPG

[RJB]

Also, don't you think it is a bit hypocritical to associate yourself with these men of the past when you go by the name "Russkie" and no longer live in the US? Identity crisis much?
I'd be more concerned of an identitity crisis if he went by Russkette. :)

[Book]

I don't understand anything about special Jewish nullifications of vows.


Maybe hoarder can tell us about Kol Nidre in this thread since you are now asking about it.

8)

[striped_bear]

Hi Russkie, I couldn't help but notice that you completely ignored my reply to you and all of the questions I asked.

Were the questions too tough, or did you just miss my post?

[Grand Master Melon]

I've got a brick wall just waiting to be built.

[MAGNES]

Id rather not bring my personal life in to this, its not going to do any good here.


I wanted to welcome one of the greatest contributors to my
education, one of my greatest adversaries, me one of his greatest
nemesis, welcome MASONIC PLOT , I see you got to know the
boys and girls real well and seems they got to know you even
better, I just got my cherry popped on here by our old friend
mayhem, he banned me, LOL, just in case you were wondering
where I am , I was banned, I am sorry I wasn't here to be the
first to welcome you. ;D

I had a cordial email, cordial being relative, ;),
with skyvike not that long ago, we talked about
history, like ancient world history, very interesting,
I thanked him as well for the opportunity to get
to know him.

Both of you, what an education, I will share with everyone.
Promise.

Don't be shy and don't get banned o kay.
We'll talk, chat it up like old times.

Get your name changed to MP again.
Maybe it will be as cordial as 2007.
After that it only went down hill with
all those sock puppets.

I must admit I was the biggest asshole as Eustace Mullins.

[Percival]

Hey Magnes good to see you also. SkyVike has a few published articles on ancient history, he may have sent you one of them perhaps, but he realy does know his shit, like you I got to know him way back when and he shared a lot of info with me.

I am also a very good friend, and have been for 20 years now, in real life, with A. Ralph Epperson, who I am sure you know is a very well known anti-masonic writer, so I have seen both sides and respect both sides. Epperson got my respect because he doesnt bring Jews in to it and sticks to the facts or at least how he interprets them, we dont agree on much but we often have coffee together, did last week, and discuss these very issues.

Ill send you some of his books if youd like. Free even.

[uranian]

Maybe hoarder can tell us about Kol Nidre in this thread since you are now asking about it.

well that's interesting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kol_Nidre#Form_of_the_Chant):


All personal vows we are likely to make, all personal oaths and pledges we are likely to take between this Yom Kippur and the next Yom Kippur, we publicly renounce. Let them all be relinquished and abandoned, null and void, neither firm nor established. Let our personal vows, pledges and oaths be considered neither vows nor pledges nor oaths.

[sirgonzo420]

Maybe hoarder can tell us about Kol Nidre in this thread since you are now asking about it.

well that's interesting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kol_Nidre#Form_of_the_Chant):


All personal vows we are likely to make, all personal oaths and pledges we are likely to take between this Yom Kippur and the next Yom Kippur, we publicly renounce. Let them all be relinquished and abandoned, null and void, neither firm nor established. Let our personal vows, pledges and oaths be considered neither vows nor pledges nor oaths.


I figure Kol Nidre needs it's own thread, so I started one here: http://gold-silver.us/forum/index.php?topic=1200.0

[Percival]

YHVH: "If you eat of the tree you SHALL SURELY DIE."

Serpent: "You wont die if you eat of it, you will become like one of them, you will have the knowledge of good and evil, enlightenment."

Adam and Eve eat the fruit.

YHVH says "Oh look, they have become like one of us."


So who told you the truth and who lied to you here? They didnt die like YHVH said they would, they became like like one of them, like the Serpent told them they would.


I suggest you rethink who God and Lucifer really are. One wants to keep you IN THE DARK while the other BRINGS YOU IN TO THE LIGHT.

[rurounikitsune]

kewl, let's go ask Adam and Eve about this miraculous knowledge they got from the fruit.

o wait.

they died.

[sirgonzo420]

YHVH: "If you eat of the tree you SHALL SURELY DIE."

Serpent: "You wont die if you eat of it, you will become like one of them, you will have the knowledge of good and evil, enlightenment."

Adam and Eve eat the fruit.

YHVH says "Oh look, they have become like one of us."


So who told you the truth and who lied to you here? They didnt die like YHVH said they would, they became like like one of them, like the Serpent told them they would.


I suggest you rethink who God and Lucifer really are. One wants to keep you IN THE DARK while the other BRINGS YOU IN TO THE LIGHT.


So are the jews 'wrong' for worshiping YHVH?

Do the jews *not* worship YHVH?

How do you reconcile Masonic teaching with being a jew?

[sirgonzo420]

kewl, let's go ask Adam and Eve about this miraculous knowledge they got from the fruit.

o wait.

they died.


yeah, but presumably if they *didn't* eat it, they'd still be here, right?

Wouldn't that be worse?

I'm not quite sure why eternal life is so appealing to people...

[rurounikitsune]

eternal life in a place like Gan Eden is a little different than eternal life in this cold, fallen world.

[sirgonzo420]

eternal life in a place like Gan Eden is a little different than eternal life in this cold, fallen world.


True... but eternity is ETERNITY.

Even if I were in Eden, at some point, I think I'd probably want an end.

[Percival]

YHVH: "If you eat of the tree you SHALL SURELY DIE."

Serpent: "You wont die if you eat of it, you will become like one of them, you will have the knowledge of good and evil, enlightenment."

Adam and Eve eat the fruit.

YHVH says "Oh look, they have become like one of us."


So who told you the truth and who lied to you here? They didnt die like YHVH said they would, they became like like one of them, like the Serpent told them they would.


I suggest you rethink who God and Lucifer really are. One wants to keep you IN THE DARK while the other BRINGS YOU IN TO THE LIGHT.


So are the jews 'wrong' for worshiping YHVH?

Do the jews *not* worship YHVH?

How do you reconcile Masonic teaching with being a jew?


Some Jews do, many do not because they have done the work and come to understand the truth which is why you see so many Jews involved in Occult Sciences, Masonry etc.


As for me, I am not a practicing Jew, I have no use for religion. If anything I am a Buddhist which is more a philosophy than a religion to me.

[rurounikitsune]

True... but eternity is ETERNITY.

Even if I were in Eden, at some point, I think I'd probably want an end.


Eternity is not limitless time. It is being without time.

It's like seeing the parade from a helicopter. All at once.

I don't know what the original plan was - if Adam and Chavah had survived. Maybe things would have changed at some point, from a simple life of pickin' fruit. But I don't think the World to Come is long, boring days in the sun.

[sirgonzo420]

Some Jews do, many do not because they have done the work and come to understand the truth which is why you see so many Jews involved in Occult Sciences, Masonry etc.


As for me, I am not a practicing Jew, I have no use for religion. If anything I am a Buddhist which is more a philosophy than a religion to me.


So some jews worship YHVH, and some hold Lucifer in a higher regard?

How can both types be called 'jews'?

I question these things out of curiosity. I have no religious agenda. I have no religious affiliation - if anything, I am buddhist, but as you said, it's not a religion per se. It makes no difference to me if jews worship YHVH or Lucifer. I do wonder what the christians who zealously support the jews would think if they knew that a good deal of them 'worship' Lucifer...

I can see how YHVH can be viewed as the 'bad guy'... but I never thought that orthodox jews would agree with that... and you're saying that many do?

[sirgonzo420]

True... but eternity is ETERNITY.

Even if I were in Eden, at some point, I think I'd probably want an end.


Eternity is not limitless time. It is being without time.

It's like seeing the parade from a helicopter. All at once.

I don't know what the original plan was - if Adam and Chavah had survived. Maybe things would have changed at some point, from a simple life of pickin' fruit. But I don't think the World to Come is long, boring days in the sun.


Ah, well perhaps my problem is one of semantics.

Becoming "part of the infinite" sounds more desirable to me than "eternal life".

The "original plan" has to be whatever happened/is happening/will happen, right?

Didn't God forsee all this? Didn't he know they'd eat of the tree? Didn't he design them to?

[uranian]

YHVH as we're talking about them here says "become like us". which is a bit odd for the god of a monotheistic religion to say. to my mind, YHVH are whatever ET race buggered about with chimp genetics to create homo sapiens sapiens. the snake probably representing another ET race that was a bit friendlier to the humans, i.e. wanted them to know what was going on.

agreed with sirg that a lot of xtians would be a tad surprised to discover that apparently a lot of jews worship lucifer.

[hoarder]

So some jews worship YHVH, and some hold Lucifer in a higher regard?

How can both types be called 'jews'?

The Jewish World, December 14th, 1922: "The Jew remains a Jew, even when he changes his religion; a Christian who adopts the Jewish religion would not thereby become a Jew, because the quality of the Jew does not lie in the Religion, but in the Race, and a Jew free-thinker atheist remains as much a Jew as any Rabbi."

[Percival]

Some Jews do, many do not because they have done the work and come to understand the truth which is why you see so many Jews involved in Occult Sciences, Masonry etc.


As for me, I am not a practicing Jew, I have no use for religion. If anything I am a Buddhist which is more a philosophy than a religion to me.


So some jews worship YHVH, and some hold Lucifer in a higher regard?

How can both types be called 'jews'?

I question these things out of curiosity. I have no religious agenda. I have no religious affiliation - if anything, I am buddhist, but as you said, it's not a religion per se. It makes no difference to me if jews worship YHVH or Lucifer. I do wonder what the christians who zealously support the jews would think if they knew that a good deal of them 'worship' Lucifer...

I can see how YHVH can be viewed as the 'bad guy'... but I never thought that orthodox jews would agree with that... and you're saying that many do?
I understand bro and a civil discussion about these things is what I love most but watch, soon they will jump in and start the name calling.


I can see why you would think as you do but the fact is that the ORTHODOX, specifically the ULTRA ORTHODOX, NOT ALL but a good majority, especially those who are very well read, do in fact understand that YHVH is not the creator and that Jews have been misled by their own book. The HASID are a great example of this, they are MYSTICAL JEWS who are more in to the Kabbalah than the actual literal OT teachings. I grew up in a Hasic community my father was a Rebbe and I know for a fact that a large portion of that community understands that the OT is very misleading. They dont have a Lucifer in Judaism, thats a Christian character that was added to the OT later, its a LATIN word, there is no Lucifer in Hebrew and there is no heaven and hell either, but they do understand that their creator is someone other than YHVH. I am not going to say who they believe it to be, its a very difficult concept to understand and it will definitely be misunderstood HERE so I dont want to go there, but I think I answered your question.

[DMac]

Some Jews do, many do not because they have done the work and come to understand the truth which is why you see so many Jews involved in Occult Sciences, Masonry etc.


As for me, I am not a practicing Jew, I have no use for religion. If anything I am a Buddhist which is more a philosophy than a religion to me.


So some jews worship YHVH, and some hold Lucifer in a higher regard?

How can both types be called 'jews'?

I question these things out of curiosity. I have no religious agenda. I have no religious affiliation - if anything, I am buddhist, but as you said, it's not a religion per se. It makes no difference to me if jews worship YHVH or Lucifer. I do wonder what the christians who zealously support the jews would think if they knew that a good deal of them 'worship' Lucifer...

I can see how YHVH can be viewed as the 'bad guy'... but I never thought that orthodox jews would agree with that... and you're saying that many do?
I understand bro and a civil discussion about these things is what I love most but watch, soon they will jump in and start the name calling.


I can see why you would think as you do but the fact is that the ORTHODOX, specifically the ULTRA ORTHODOX, NOT ALL but a good majority, especially those who are very well read, do in fact understand that YHVH is not the creator and that Jews have been misled by their own book. The HASID are a great example of this, they are MYSTICAL JEWS who are more in to the Kabbalah than the actual literal OT teachings. I grew up in a Hasic community my father was a Rebbe and I know for a fact that a large portion of that community understands that the OT is very misleading. They dont have a Lucifer in Judaism, thats a Christian character that was added to the OT later, its a LATIN word, there is no Lucifer in Hebrew and there is no heaven and hell either, but they do understand that their creator is someone other than YHVH. I am not going to say who they believe it to be, its a very difficult concept to understand and it will definitely be misunderstood HERE so I dont want to go there, but I think I answered your question.




Oh come on Perci don't hold out on us now :D

[Percival]

So some jews worship YHVH, and some hold Lucifer in a higher regard?

How can both types be called 'jews'?

The Jewish World, December 14th, 1922: "The Jew remains a Jew, even when he changes his religion; a Christian who adopts the Jewish religion would not thereby become a Jew, because the quality of the Jew does not lie in the Religion, but in the Race, and a Jew free-thinker atheist remains as much a Jew as any Rabbi."



Yea people also used to think the Earth was flat hoarder, religious ideas progress through time like anything else. "Jew" is no longer considered a race, Sammy Davis JR was very much considered a Jew after his conversion as anyone today would be. I do NOT practice Judaism any longer but since I still hang out in the Jewish community, eat Jewish food, and love Jewish women, I still consider myself a Jew but I have no use for their silly religious beliefs and practices.

[uranian]

Oh come on Perci don't hold out on us now :D

seconded!

[uranian]

not to derail the thread, as it is genuinely interesting, but a wee comic aside:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_hlMK7tCks

[sirgonzo420]

I understand bro and a civil discussion about these things is what I love most but watch, soon they will jump in and start the name calling.


I can see why you would think as you do but the fact is that the ORTHODOX, specifically the ULTRA ORTHODOX, NOT ALL but a good majority, especially those who are very well read, do in fact understand that YHVH is not the creator and that Jews have been misled by their own book. The HASID are a great example of this, they are MYSTICAL JEWS who are more in to the Kabbalah than the actual literal OT teachings. I grew up in a Hasic community my father was a Rebbe and I know for a fact that a large portion of that community understands that the OT is very misleading. They dont have a Lucifer in Judaism, thats a Christian character that was added to the OT later, its a LATIN word, there is no Lucifer in Hebrew and there is no heaven and hell either, but they do understand that their creator is someone other than YHVH. I am not going to say who they believe it to be, its a very difficult concept to understand and it will definitely be misunderstood HERE so I dont want to go there, but I think I answered your question.


When I speak of Lucifer, I speak of the concept.

Feel free to PM me if you feel like explaining what will "definitely be misunderstood here".

I am genuinely interested.

[sirgonzo420]

So some jews worship YHVH, and some hold Lucifer in a higher regard?

How can both types be called 'jews'?

The Jewish World, December 14th, 1922: "The Jew remains a Jew, even when he changes his religion; a Christian who adopts the Jewish religion would not thereby become a Jew, because the quality of the Jew does not lie in the Religion, but in the Race, and a Jew free-thinker atheist remains as much a Jew as any Rabbi."



Yea people also used to think the Earth was flat hoarder, religious ideas progress through time like anything else. "Jew" is no longer considered a race, Sammy Davis JR was very much considered a Jew after his conversion as anyone today would be. I do NOT practice Judaism any longer but since I still hang out in the Jewish community, eat Jewish food, and love Jewish women, I still consider myself a Jew but I have no use for their silly religious beliefs and practices.


How can you say that jewishness isn't racial, and then say you aren't religious but are still a jew?

EDIT: if "jew" is a strictly religious term, how can a "secular jew" exist?

[Percival]

Its not that I am holding out it is just that the concept is very difficult to explain in english, its a Kabbalistic concept and translate some of it is not easy. I will see what I can put together on word perfect to try and make sense of it and post something when I get the time later.


As for me, the word Jew is about culture and tradition AS WELL AS religion. I am not a religious Jew but I still honor the traditions and culture of the Jewish people, I eat Jewish food commonly, I feel a closeness to other Jewish people because things like food, the way we live, our pursuit of education and Judaisms point of encouraging independent thought connect us in ways that I do not feel connected with someone who hasnt lived those traditions and its resulting culture.

My race would be Hebrew, not Jew, but even Hebrew really isnt a race per se, its a people who speak a particular language. I guess you could call me a Semite but that is still a broad term that can include Arabs as well as those who speak the Hebrew language.

[sirgonzo420]

Its not that I am holding out it is just that the concept is very difficult to explain in english, its a Kabbalistic concept and translate some of it is not easy. I will see what I can put together on word perfect to try and make sense of it and post something when I get the time later.


As for me, the word Jew is about culture and tradition AS WELL AS religion. I am not a religious Jew but I still honor the traditions and culture of the Jewish people, I eat Jewish food commonly, I feel a closeness to other Jewish people because things like food, the way we live, our pursuit of education and Judaisms point of encouraging independent thought connect us in ways that I do not feel connected with someone who hasnt lived those traditions and its resulting culture.

My race would be Hebrew, not Jew, but even Hebrew really isnt a race per se, its a people who speak a particular language.


Right, but there is MORE to a jew than religion... and one can be a jew *without* religion.

So call it "racial" or "ethnic" or whatever but there is something MORE to it than simply religious persuasion.

For sure, the jews are a complex people, both within their religion and without it.

I'll be waiting for your "difficult concepts". I have tried to look a little bit into kabbalah myself, but haven't had much luck understanding it. Of course, I was not *meant* to understand it, as I am not a jew. Besides, I get the impression that you can't just look a "little bit" into it... as per usual for the jewish people, it is quite complex from my extremely basic understanding of it.

However, I feel like I could still benefit from whatever you have to say about it.

[Percival]

Its not that I am holding out it is just that the concept is very difficult to explain in english, its a Kabbalistic concept and translate some of it is not easy. I will see what I can put together on word perfect to try and make sense of it and post something when I get the time later.


As for me, the word Jew is about culture and tradition AS WELL AS religion. I am not a religious Jew but I still honor the traditions and culture of the Jewish people, I eat Jewish food commonly, I feel a closeness to other Jewish people because things like food, the way we live, our pursuit of education and Judaisms point of encouraging independent thought connect us in ways that I do not feel connected with someone who hasnt lived those traditions and its resulting culture.

My race would be Hebrew, not Jew, but even Hebrew really isnt a race per se, its a people who speak a particular language.


Right, but there is MORE to a jew than religion... and one can be a jew *without* religion.

So call it "racial" or "ethnic" or whatever but there is something MORE to it than simply religious persuasion.

For sure, the jews are a complex people, both within their religion and without it.

I'll be waiting for your "difficult concepts". I have tried to look a little bit into kabbalah myself, but haven't had much luck understanding it. Of course, I was not *meant* to understand it, as I am not a jew. Besides, I get the impression that you can't just look a "little bit" into it... as per usual for the jewish people, it is quite complex from my extremely basic understanding of it.

However, I feel like I could still benefit from whatever you have to say about it.
You MUST understand Hebrew to really understand the Kabbalah but I will see what I can put together to help you understand the concept we discussed prior.
Its the same for Buddhism, I have been studying Buddhism SERIOUSLY for about 10 years now, I study with monks and have really put a lot of time in to it but I felt I still wasnt really GRASPING some of the more important concepts of it so I started to learn PALI which is the language that the Tripitaka, the Buddhist Canon is written in, and although I dont know a whole like, I can see already from the little I do, that many of the things I thought before were completely backwards from what it really is when you see it in its original language.

[sirgonzo420]

You MUST understand Hebrew to really understand the Kabbalah but I will see what I can put together to help you understand the concept we discussed prior.
Its the same for Buddhism, I have been studying Buddhism SERIOUSLY for about 10 years now, I study with monks and have really put a lot of time in to it but I felt I still wasnt really GRASPING some of the more important concepts of it so I started to learn PALI which is the language that the Tripitaka, the Buddhist Canon is written in, and although I dont know a whole like, I can see already from the little I do, that many of the things I thought before were completely backwards from what it really is when you see it in its original language.


Well I can't read hebrew... and even if I could I couldn't *really* read hebrew (unless I misunderstand, I imagine gematria complicates the shit out of hebrew and adds layers of complexity to something that might have been simple otherwise)!

LOL, I'm not at all a hebrew scholar (or a christian) but I do have a copy of Strong's Concordance, and when I first got it I couldn't put it down! It's strange... I may be more interested in judaism and the bible than a good deal of "jews" and "christians" - and I am not religious - it's more of an academic curiosity.

I imagine certain buddhist concepts would be easier to understand in the original tongue(s), but my understanding of buddhism comes from experiences I've had and writings I've read in english (which seems to be enough for me, although my experiences are what validated my readings - real buddhism is not done justice with [english] words). I do, however, understand the importance of reading in the original language wherever possible.

[Percival]

Well the practice of Buddhism is rather simple and Judaism as we know is anything but simple, it is indeed very complex and that is what makes it interesting, I am no scholar the only reason I know Hebrew is because thats what I grew up with.

The problem with Buddhism is if you want to get in to the cosmology of it all, the idea of creation, how we got here etc, thats very hard to understand in English but it is really of no importance in the practice orf Buddhism as a philosophy, that is actually pretty simple, HARD AS HELL TO DO, but simple enough to understand if you put in the effort to learn the basics.

[Hugginator]

Russkie, if you stretch this out 50 pages I'll convert. Muahahahahahaha!


Why do you think we'd accept you?


Well I could be the first Christian Mason and you can be the first Muslim Mason, or is your word to 301 no good.....that's what I thought. Where's the SPAM sign?!?

[rurounikitsune]

So some jews worship YHVH, and some hold Lucifer in a higher regard?

How can both types be called 'jews'?

The Jewish World, December 14th, 1922: "The Jew remains a Jew, even when he changes his religion; a Christian who adopts the Jewish religion would not thereby become a Jew, because the quality of the Jew does not lie in the Religion, but in the Race, and a Jew free-thinker atheist remains as much a Jew as any Rabbi."


I like this quote because it typifies what has gone so horribly wrong in the Jewish community. Paul of Tarsus made it clear that if a Jew abandoned his faith, he was considered as being uncircumcised - as not being Jewish. He is coming from a background in Old Testament law - the Torah states that if a person abandons God and the laws of his people, he is "cut off" - not a part of the community anymore. These liberal Jews who forsake their faith in God, to dabble in all kinds of filth, and retain their "Jewish" identity are the enemy of both Christians and religious Jews.

(When I say "religious" I am going by the definition in the book of James - Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.)

[greenbear]

Pearls and Swine.

Oh Bullsh*t, Its an agenda...... If you had pearls to give, then give them freely or continue on collecting dues for them.
Pearls of wisdom for sale, join me and recieve thy gifts.

Save your money men, if the teachings of Christ don't show you how be live honorably, paying someone to brain wash you isn't going to help.
Lets see, the Masons have had their hands in every revolution to overthrow tyrants in history. Christians have what, the stain of the Crusades and Inquisition and being responsible for more death and mayhem than any other religion around.

I think its clear where the honor lies.


The Catholic Church is not "Christians". The Catholic Church is a temporal power, it is a sovereign nation that has nothing to do with Biblical Christianity. Christians, along with any other group that would not recognize the Primacy of the Pope in Rome in spiritual and temporal matters were slaughtered during the Crusades and Inquisition. The Catholic Church is responsible for the Mayhem and Death of millions. Not Christians. True Christians do not harm anyone.

[Josey]

True Christians do not harm anyone.

Great now you went and blew a hole in the major Quote that non Christians love to use During any religious debate.
Mention Jesus onetime and thats the first reply you'll get everytime, Never once do they take into account Jesus never hurt anyone nor built any armies. Much less Blessed any Crusades.
I think Christians should become more like Muslims in forcing people to live by the words of Christ, at least then they would have an up to date complaint.

[rurounikitsune]

The Kingdom of Heaven is not a physical kingdom... yet.

Neither are its followers concentrated in one religious denomination. We are like wheat among chaff, waiting to be sifted out and joined together.

[Percival]

True Christians do not harm anyone.

Great now you went and blew a hole in the major Quote that non Christians love to use During any religious debate.
Mention Jesus onetime and thats the first reply you'll get everytime, Never once do they take into account Jesus never hurt anyone nor built any armies. Much less Blessed any Crusades.
I think Christians should become more like Muslims in forcing people to live by the words of Christ, at least then they would have an up to date complaint.




I understand Jesus didnt have anything to do with any of that. But cant the same be said of Jews or anyone else. The "True" ones of any religion are always different than the radicals and extremists.


I have never once said that Jews are above reproach, all I have asked is that we name names, I know many jews who do stupid shit and I have no problem naming them, Ariel Sharon is one such fine example, but isnt that true of anyone or any group of people?

What I see commonly in these discussions is 'Zionists this and Jews that' thats MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of people they are lumping in to ONE SINGLE GROUP trying brainwash others in to believe "Jews" or "Zionists" are ALL plotting together to make their lives miserable. Thats IGNORANCE and it needs to be called that because that is EXACTLY what it is. Its nothing personal, that is simply what that is, ignorance.

Now if they have problems with any particular individual Jews or Zionists by all means expose the fuckers so we all know who to watch out for, but lets name names and talk about indivuduals intead of ENTIRE GROUPS OF MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of people.

[Josey]

Lets see, the Masons have had their hands in every revolution to overthrow tyrants in history. Christians have what, the stain of the Crusades and Inquisition and being responsible for more death and mayhem than any other religion around.

I think its clear where the honor lies.

Who was it that posted this? LOL

[Percival]

Christians were responsible for those things, I didnt say Jesus had anything to do with it, maybe they were 'true Christians" as you say. But would any true Christian bash Jews and spew the sort of hatred that many here, who claim to be REAL CHRISTIANS, do? I say no.


Jesus was a Jew, for starters.

[hoarder]

Christians were responsible for those things, I didnt say Jesus had anything to do with it, maybe they were 'true Christians" as you say. But would any true Christian bash Jews and spew the sort of hatred that many here, who claim to be REAL CHRISTIANS, do? I say no.


Jesus was a Jew, for starters.
Anyone who criticizes Talmudists or Khazars is not a true Christian...... ::)

[sirgonzo420]

Christians were responsible for those things, I didnt say Jesus had anything to do with it, maybe they were 'true Christians" as you say. But would any true Christian bash Jews and spew the sort of hatred that many here, who claim to be REAL CHRISTIANS, do? I say no.


Jesus was a Jew, for starters.


To be fair, there are many people who claim to be REAL JEWS who spit upon christians...

I have no dog in this fight - I'm neither a jew nor a christian - but I've heard that christians are not exactly well received in Israel. Can you give insight? How do jews really feel about christians and other non-jews (goyim)? I'm serious.

[greenbear]

Its not that I am holding out it is just that the concept is very difficult to explain in english, its a Kabbalistic concept and translate some of it is not easy. I will see what I can put together on word perfect to try and make sense of it and post something when I get the time later.


As for me, the word Jew is about culture and tradition AS WELL AS religion. I am not a religious Jew but I still honor the traditions and culture of the Jewish people, I eat Jewish food commonly, I feel a closeness to other Jewish people because things like food, the way we live, our pursuit of education and Judaisms point of encouraging independent thought connect us in ways that I do not feel connected with someone who hasnt lived those traditions and its resulting culture.

My race would be Hebrew, not Jew, but even Hebrew really isnt a race per se, its a people who speak a particular language.


Right, but there is MORE to a jew than religion... and one can be a jew *without* religion.

So call it "racial" or "ethnic" or whatever but there is something MORE to it than simply religious persuasion.

For sure, the jews are a complex people, both within their religion and without it.

I'll be waiting for your "difficult concepts". I have tried to look a little bit into kabbalah myself, but haven't had much luck understanding it. Of course, I was not *meant* to understand it, as I am not a jew. Besides, I get the impression that you can't just look a "little bit" into it... as per usual for the jewish people, it is quite complex from my extremely basic understanding of it.

However, I feel like I could still benefit from whatever you have to say about it.
You MUST understand Hebrew to really understand the Kabbalah but I will see what I can put together to help you understand the concept we discussed prior.
Its the same for Buddhism, I have been studying Buddhism SERIOUSLY for about 10 years now, I study with monks and have really put a lot of time in to it but I felt I still wasnt really GRASPING some of the more important concepts of it so I started to learn PALI which is the language that the Tripitaka, the Buddhist Canon is written in, and although I dont know a whole like, I can see already from the little I do, that many of the things I thought before were completely backwards from what it really is when you see it in its original language.



Faithful translation from one language to another does not change the underlying ideas. It certainly does not make the concepts "completely backwards", i.e., make them opposite of what they were in the original language.

[singular_me]

Russkie,

I trust you are honest in your quest

BUT

in my view there are many masonic locations/lodges that are a lot neater than others, and. where everyting seems pretty "normal" ... I am also sure that there are high-ranked masons unaware of what is happening at the very top - or among other high ranked masons.

Overall I agree that the masonic order, the real motive behind their power grab, has to be exposed.

[Russkie]

Russkie,

I trust you are honest in your quest

BUT

in my view there are many masonic locations/lodges that are a lot neater than others, and. where everyting seems pretty "normal" ... I am also sure that there are high-ranked masons unaware of what is happening at the very top - or among other high ranked masons.

Overall I agree that the masonic order, the real motive behind their power grab, has to be exposed.






I appreciate your attempt at fairness.

What the people in this thread can't seem to get their minds around (even though I've repeated it several times), is that the nature of the "Masonic Organization" does not lend itself to secret manipulations "from the top".

There is no way that my personal lodge can control my actions and demand I do things.

There is no way that the Grand Lodge of Michigan can make my lodge do anything other than preserve the integrity and consistency of our practices withing the lodge.

And the Grand Lodge of Michigan is the highest Masonic organization I belong to.

If I want to go to lodge outside of Michigan, I have to first make sure that this lodge is recognized by GL Michigan (i.e. that they do things the same way that we do things), then get a letter of introduction from my lodge.

People have so much ego identity tied up with their consipracy beliefs, they're completely blind to reality.


Striped Bear, what are these critical questions I haven't answered? I think I've given the essence of Freemasonry in this thread, and addressed the common concerns. What else?

And for those of you who don't like the fact that I live abroad, you should think about doing it for a couple of years yourself.

Spending time living in another country and culture gives you a perspective that you can gain in no other way.

And yes, I'll take pride in my Masonic heritage, and I'll take pride in the actions of my ancestors. This is right and healthy.

It adds to my sense of self-worth and self-respect.

Adn healthy self-respect is the foundation of respect for others.

[singular_me]

Russkie, I see it like that, not all cardinals are pedophiles and dark forces worshippers. I am sure there are inner struggles inside Vatican.

Regardless what I think of the bible, if you follow its basic 10 commadements, you are a good christian.

Knowledge will forever remain a double edged sword. We can use whatever rituals in a positive fashion. Even worshipping Ra, doesnt mean that one is evil systematically. Today many ppl practice sun gazing, I posted a video about it in the religion/philosophy forum. It is all about the power of intent.

Ultimately, withholding knowledge IS a problem. Any kind of secrecy will eventually go wrong and unethical

[The Great Ag]

Since Russkie started this, I will add my membership as well. I, too, am a 3rd degee mason. I disclosed this long ago on GIM.

Having been a mason for about 5years, I do not understand all the hype about masons.

Here is what I do know.
As Russkie stated, and I can concur, masonry is a bunch of guys who get together, do masonic business (takes about 30 minutes to 1 hour) and the other hour to 1.5 hours is guys talking about whatever they want. I have not participated in over 3 years, as most of the members were significantly older and were not interested in the things I wanted to talk about. I joined as I have in-laws there and was looking for things to do with guys. Because of the lack of interests, I have not attended in years.

Outside of lodge, masons do good works in the community, at least my lodge does.

In terms of symbolism, if a symbol can mean one thing it can mean a 1000 others. Do the mucky-mucks (the top of masonry) have a different interpretation of the same symbols? Probably. If I ran a society with different levels of membership (circles within circles), I would have different meanings.

Could the top try to influence countries? Could the top be satanic? It is possible, but I have not seen any credible evidence, especially at my level. I do admit, I suck at symbolism.

If members want to discount what I write, that I am shill or some such thing. Go ahead. I don't care. For those who have read my writings on GIM know I prefer a much smaller gov't and encourage people to stand up for their rights.

I have this to say, whomever you believe is running the world, khazars, masons, joos, bilberbergers, CFR. . .etc, you are probably right and also wrong.

Humanity's purpose is to come together under one tongue. Humanity actually did this. Read Genesis, Ch 11 V6

6 The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other."
We had it back then and nothing we plan will be inpossible. What do the gods do? Smash humanity.

My opinions about life, the universe and everything tend to be outside of everything, even fringe elements.

So be it.

The Great Ag

[301ouncer]

Did you know that you following and helping the deceptor Dajjal anti-christ? Even though you state you are an orthodox christian. after this revelation of yours my friend:

Now I am probably more of a christian then you so to speak. :) I have to work on converting you back to christianity before even thinking of reverting back to islam. ;D

so here russ please believe will ya:

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever beliveth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

now back to reverting to Islam:

Mark 12:29 "The first of all the commandments is, Here, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord."

This is for you watch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L13WEP7qVNA&playnext_from=TL&videos=zTa2tkKw7Q0

LOL. I already have -6 next to my name and I have only beeb here less then 24hours.

[Russkie]

Great Ag, thanks for having the cahones to proclaim your Masonry.

301ouncer, you should know that we have Muslims in our lodge, and that most of the Masonic knowledge came through Islam.

You are NOT a Christian at all.

To be a Christian is not only to abide by the teachings of Holy Prophets.

It is to be a dwelling place of the Holy Spirit, and try to let it live through you.

You DO NOT have the signature of the Holy Spirit upon you, in my humble estimate, but I pray it finds you.




Now for all you conspiracy theorists, I'll reveal for once and all the dark force which governs this world....

The only darkness, the only evil, the only real problem...

Is the darkness of your own ignorance.

You love your ignorance so much, you build it into an idol and worship it.

People embracing the darkness of their own ignorance is the root of all the evil things in this world.

But God respects your autonomy, and is waiting for you to desire light and truth more than anything, more than your own ego, desires, or fears.

Once this thirst for light and truth becomes stronger than your desire to embrace your own darkness, the knowledge of freemasonry CANNOT be witheld from you.

And that is a fact.

[vacuum]

Striped Bear, what are these critical questions I haven't answered? I think I've given the essence of Freemasonry in this thread, and addressed the common concerns. What else?
Hi Russkie, his questions were in this post: http://gold-silver.us/forum/index.php?topic=294.msg5693#msg5693

I'd also be interested in hearing answers to them. I will probably ask some questions in this thread once I properly formulate them, but I do find this discussion interesting.

[Book]

What I see commonly in these discussions is 'Zionists this and Jews that' thats MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of people they are lumping in to ONE SINGLE GROUP trying brainwash others in to believe "Jews" or "Zionists" are ALL plotting together to make their lives miserable. Thats IGNORANCE and it needs to be called that because that is EXACTLY what it is. Its nothing personal, that is simply what that is, ignorance.

Now if they have problems with any particular individual Jews or Zionists by all means expose the f*ckers so we all know who to watch out for, but lets name names and talk about indivuduals intead of ENTIRE GROUPS OF MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of people.



"ADL HELPS FBI RETURN THE MISSING $65 BILLION MADOFF LOOT FROM ISRAEL"

Link us to that New York Times headline news story Percival.

:oo-->

[Book]

Christians were responsible for those things, I didnt say Jesus had anything to do with it, maybe they were 'true Christians" as you say. But would any true Christian bash Jews and spew the sort of hatred that many here, who claim to be REAL CHRISTIANS, do? I say no.


Jesus was a Jew, for starters.
Anyone who criticizes Talmudists or Khazars is not a true Christian...... ::)


http://www.fixcas.com/news/2009/den.jpg

Percival reminds us that Jesus bashed Jews and therefore is not a true Christian...lol.

:oo-->

[keehah]

To tell the truth I'd probably share more in common spiritually with a Mason than a Christian. I have Uncles that are/were Masons.

That said, if ignorance is the key, there are two destructive types of ignorance. One with more intent. And why I could trust a Christian more than a Mason.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51CKo0HPSxL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg

[Gknowmx]

To talk about what we don't know is like jumping in the ocean without knowing how to swim.

People talk about "God" but only because it has been implanted in their mind (brain washing) and not because "God" has told them what he, she or it is.

Up till now I have found out that ALL religions works in the same way......with repetition's of the same words over and over again till such a time that they hypnotized themselves into oblivion.

Look at the way that the Muslims and the Jews pray, with rapid body movements and the Christian paralyze and with no emotions........but all of them repeating the same words over and over again and again.

You're right, the ego can never know or understand God.

To experience God you must go beyond the mind. God is simply a name for That Which is Beyond Understanding of the Human Mind.

You're right about the repetition stuff, it's a method used to bypass the mind.

Yogis call in mantra meditation.


First, I like your list of thoughtful questions to Russkie.

Second, do you make a distinction between the brain and the Mind? I can see how many of the things you say are beyond the brain, but less so the Mind. Please elaborate. Thanks.

[gunDriller]

And I'm here.

I'm also a staunch Orthodox Christian.

So "Christos Voskres" or "Happy Easter".

What's the official conspiracy theory?

once i had a friend who was a connector salesman for Amp (since bought by Tyco) invite me to the Masonic Temple in San Francisco. It was like a big dinner.

i think of the Masons as a fraternity.

when people speak ill of the Masons, they are mixing up the Masons with an organized crime entity that occupies the United States government. Israel, AIPAC, banksters, Monsanto - etc.

my guess is, to the extent possible, organized crime in America uses the Masons, but it doesn't mean that the Masons are criminal.

[Low Pan]

interesting topic, tagged for later.

[Serpo]

thats nothing IM a HUMAN

[StackerKen]

thats nothing IM a HUMAN


Im human too.

Im not real proud of it...But, it is what it is

[MAGNES]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBjOs-egFMs

[RJB]

I keep hearing that those on the bottom aren't in the know...

To me Masonism reeks of the same scent as any other pyramid scheme.

[Occamsrazor]

And I'm here.

I'm also a staunch Orthodox Christian.

So "Christos Voskres" or "Happy Easter".

I know most of you think Masons control the world. Who the hell knows, all I know is that me and the Masons I know are just regular people.

This site has an anti-mason core, but if you want to seriously talk about masonic practice and philosophy, I'll discuss everything openly. If you read me at GIM, you know I'm a straight shooter.

I'm on here and on GIM2, because I'm waiting to see how both will shape up.

And quite frankly, the whole shut down of the old site seems kind of fishy, and no one offered a good explanation.

I think the domain might have been sold or something. Weird.

What's the official conspiracy theory?




You are a straight shooter as I have known you so far. I like your posts which I`ve been reading for quite some time already, I agree with much of what you say. You being a mason is a surprise to me because there is nothing slimy about you so far. I also have a great deal of respect for you having learned Russian so well which is far from an easy language to put it mildly. Ditto for you having the guts to choose Russia as your home (unless you are an agent of some sort:).

[Ifyouseekay]

-

[Serpo]

Russkie backing both sides when in fact neither have the truth.

Truth isnt organised...........Truth IS

[Occamsrazor]

There is something rotten at the core of freemasonry. Now, some of my friends happen to be Masons and are decent folk, but I have also heard something from someone close to me that made me do a double take and think more seriously about some of those 'crazy conspiracy theories' about freemasonry. Can't repeat it as it could land me in legal hot water and I can't prove anything.

Apparently, freemasonry was pivotal in the Russian revolution, according to a BBC documentary. What do you make of this one, Russkie?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwgD6iNbO4M

Many thanks to you for posting this video. Being Russian myself, my chief reason for not seeking membership in Masonry is the fact that after 1917 masons have savagely killed millions of the best of Russian people.

[Serpo]

A secret society is ONLY SECRET because it has something to HIDE

[Occamsrazor]

A secret society is ONLY SECRET because it has something to HIDE



Exactly. Also, only nefarious things require secrecy, good deeds are done in the open.
What is it you are hiding from the non-masons except the handshakes and passwords which everyone with half a brain knows already from the internet?
Masonry is Judaism for goyim. Masonry is a mafia, so is Judaism. One can join a street gang and sell weed on street corners or one can join a respectable gang which is called masonry.
What are you doing in Russia,Russkie? Are you waiting for the Hour X when you will shoot from the rooftops like in 1991 when American and ZOG agents were shooting 1000s of people in Moscow who came out to overthrow the treasonous Yeltsin gang?

[Occamsrazor]

A Russian who claims to be a mason is most definitely in league with the khazar and should be removed from our midst. Just being honest.


Why should he be removed?




Well I don't mean banned, maybe a separation of his head from his body.


If you ever meet me, you're welcome to take your chances.

First time I've ever been threatened like this on a gold-silver forum.

Now you know why Masons keep it secret, because of booger-eating, sister-humping pea brains who would just as soon spit tobbaco juice in your eye as listen to you.

I'm an American and a Marine Corps veteran of war.

I belong to the Sons of the American Revolution.

And I'm a descendant of the Jamestown colonists.

And my brother Masons wrote the Constitution and Bill of Rights, and founded the USA.

So you should remove yourself from MY country.

Just being honest......



Russkie, what are you doing in MY country?

[keehah]

Now for all you conspiracy theorists, I'll reveal for once and all the dark force which governs this world....

The only darkness, the only evil, the only real problem...

Is the darkness of your own ignorance.

You love your ignorance so much, you build it into an idol and worship it.

People embracing the darkness of their own ignorance is the root of all the evil things in this world.

But God respects your autonomy, and is waiting for you to desire light and truth more than anything, more than your own ego, desires, or fears.

Once this thirst for light and truth becomes stronger than your desire to embrace your own darkness, the knowledge of freemasonry CANNOT be witheld from you.

And that is a fact.


I agree, except I also see another type of darkness or evil that is important.
I think Christians and Muslim followers do have much of this type of darkness, Jewish and Mason 'followers' less so.

The other type of darkness running riot in the the world these days, deception.

As I have learned, those who lead Muslims and Christians practice it. Jewish teachings teach it. Mason's use it when in conflict.

It is wise to determine how trustworthy a person may be depending on their allegiance. I agree it is more darkness of the first kind to assume the worst of any individual member of these groups. People who commit crimes against others (including those of deception) should be called by name with a description of the crime if one is not to inadvertently create even more darkness.

As for me and my darkness of the first kind, the only groups I tend to dismiss out of hand as evil are zombies and those of the MSM and gaming polios. But when discussing it, I still try to stick to names and crimes. 8)

And from the perspective of your average zombie I tend to think many of us here could be described as dogma free free range Mason's or honest Jews. :D

[Occamsrazor]

It isn`t worth a rat`s ass what you or anyone says,Russkie. The only thing that matters is what you do.
You know better than most that real Russian Orthodox Christians LOATH Masonry and for a good reason.
Since you are in a confession mood, how about you tell us what the f**k you are doing in Russia?

Russia is crawling with American and British masonic agents, has been so since the time immemorial, with genocidal results (for us).

I`ve read enough of your goody-goody peaceful Sunday school stuff. I have bookshelves full of Russian books on the masonic activities in Russia of nice-sounding guys just like you, my friend.

[StackerKen]

get em Occy

[Occamsrazor]

get em Occy


No for real bro, an American Marine and a mason is sitting in Russia for 10 yrs. What else could this be?

[StackerKen]

A spy?

CIA?

[StackerKen]

I agree Occy.
It is very strange. and like you said, Orthodox Christians LOATH Masonry.

So it doesn't jive.
???

[Occamsrazor]

I agree Occy.
It is very strange. and like you said, Orthodox Christians LOATH Masonry.

So it doesn't jive.
???





The meaning of the Russian Orthodox church is anti-masonry. There is a sold-out ecumenical masonic Russian Orthodox church version of Christianity but everyone knows what it is. In today`s Russia the word mason means traitor.

So, Russkie, tell me you have been studying the relationship between geometry and moral allegories in Russian for the past 10 yrs in a country that has over 50% of the planet`s resources...

[illumin19]

I agree Occy.
It is very strange. and like you said, Orthodox Christians LOATH Masonry.

So it doesn't jive.
???





The meaning of the Russian Orthodox church is anti-masonry. There is a sold-out ecumenical masonic Russian Orthodox church version of Christianity but everyone knows what it is. In today`s Russia the word mason means traitor.

So, Russkie, tell me you have been studying the relationship between geometry and moral allegories in Russian for the past 10 yrs in a country that has over 50% of the planet`s resources...

Whoa, excuse me, just backin' outta here...............
:gwing

[greenbear]

Interesting video.
Now a born-again Christian,
"Bill Schnoebelen was a Satanic and Voodoo High Priest, 2nd degree Church of Satan, New Age guru, occultist, channeler, 90th degree Mason, Knight Templar, and a member of the Illuminati. Bill shows how the conspiracy works and how it uses the Lodge and the highest echelons of power and technology from secret "black project" operations to form a world government."

16 parts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyKoEMdJfn4&feature=PlayList&p=A021EF63686A4CB6&playnext_from=PL&index=0&playnext=1

[Nomen luni]

To me Masonism reeks of the same scent as any other pyramid scheme.
I couldn't have said it better, my friend. Like all such schemes, the power flows from those at the bottom to those at the summit.

[striped_bear]

To talk about what we don't know is like jumping in the ocean without knowing how to swim.

People talk about "God" but only because it has been implanted in their mind (brain washing) and not because "God" has told them what he, she or it is.

Up till now I have found out that ALL religions works in the same way......with repetition's of the same words over and over again till such a time that they hypnotized themselves into oblivion.

Look at the way that the Muslims and the Jews pray, with rapid body movements and the Christian paralyze and with no emotions........but all of them repeating the same words over and over again and again.

You're right, the ego can never know or understand God.

To experience God you must go beyond the mind. God is simply a name for That Which is Beyond Understanding of the Human Mind.

You're right about the repetition stuff, it's a method used to bypass the mind.

Yogis call in mantra meditation.


First, I like your list of thoughtful questions to Russkie.

Second, do you make a distinction between the brain and the Mind? I can see how many of the things you say are beyond the brain, but less so the Mind. Please elaborate. Thanks.


Hi GnnowMX, just saw your reply today.

It seems that Russkie has fled the scene, and purposefully avoided the questions I put to him. Not surprising.

I do not think the mind is limited to the brain, but encompasses the entire body, and I'm really not 100% sure about this but I think there is an aspect of the mind which goes beyond the physical dimension.

The brain is part of our nervous system. Our nervous system is the window through which pure consciousness (our greater Self) peers into this dimension.

The mind is a tool. It processes and stores information (memory), creates new ideas (imagination) -- it bases its ideas on the "imagined future" based mostly on the information it has stored about the "subjective past".

The mind runs the "ego program". The ego is the "I thought". "I don't like this" or "I want go do this" - that is the ego mind.

We are not the ego, we are That (capital T). We are the Pure Consciousness that peers into the physical world through our bodies. Our supreme nature is beyond understanding of the mind.

God is also beyond all comprehension of the mind. But you can interact with this force, because part of us is beyond the mind too.

[MAGNES]

To tell the truth I'd probably share more in common spiritually with a Mason than a Christian.


Keehah, lol, this explains a lot about your recent postings.

You ain't totally awake dude, nor have you been paying
attention to peoples posts and my posts and what happened
on gim.

You should take a look at my posts in religion section,
your god is your avatar following goldissima around,
she follows the "theosophists" a joke of a name alone
designed to corrupt, and whether you know it or not
you do too, they are easily shamed and discredited
which is why people deny following them but do the
exact same work they promote, and they do it on a
personal level on here, very dishonorable deceivers.

"BY THEIR WORKS YE SHALL KNOW THEM" GSUS

[MAGNES]

It seems that Russkie has fled the scene, and purposefully avoided the questions I put to him. Not surprising.



Russkie did this on gim, defending masons and masonry side by
side with skyvike and one other guy, they had their butts handed
to them in 2 threads, they talk but don't talk, and skyvike attempted
to remove all his posts, but some remained with quotes, I have
some of them linked to my sig, or did, see google cache, still works,
"skyvike masons", you will see how honest Russkie is, I was also
banned for my posts, and I was personally attacked, this is what
skyvike has been doing on gim forever, banning everyone exposing
freemasons, banning Christians, banning people that know history,
so that he and others can promote their masonic version of history,
they hate the Greeks and Classics, hate Western leaders like Constantine,
Byzantium, corrupt history, skyvike steered gim this way through his
behavior promoting the occult on gim, see the religion section where
I show and take on goldissima for doing the same thing, after I confronted
her, and she is allied with skyvike, she became more open about who
she is, see for yourselves. I only posted in two threads where I have
good points, links, and my own analysis. Russkie believe it or not even
took issue with goldissima and some of her postings being historically
inaccurate, I think she does it on purpose, and I think despite everything
Russkie has done in past and here there is some honesty in him,
I think he is very low level and has not been exposed to their corruptions.
He even thinks you can be a Christian and be a mason, ROFL .
You can't even be honorable and be a mason cause of oaths
and who they worship, Jahbulon, Lucifer at the top. There are people
on here, more than one person, that never post in these threads,
are very knowledgable on history and classics and they too have
same concerns and agree with I will only say some of my assessments.
Masons rewrite history, corrupt it, and on a personal level they do
it here too, and their other occult allies do this too.

[StackerKen]

Im glad your Back Magnes

[RJB]

Im glad your Back Magnes
Same here.

[MAGNES]

Im glad your Back Magnes


Thanks, I didn't go anywhere, 2 days, lol, everything is fine but I am busy,
summer is coming. This place will slow down cause of this IMO like before,
but I try to read here everyday after work, should post on gold silver.
Looks like they trying to cap.



Same here.


Thanks again.

[TPTB]

The word occult in Latin means "hidden concealed knowledge," but "The Occult" means the study and practice of the secret knowledge to control or hold power over others." Ergo, an American Mason in Russia may very well be doing business to control Russians.

Masonry is really about two things. Studying "The Occult" and seeing that occult knowledge remains hidden and concealed.

Symbolism isn't so much about demons and angels and alchemy. Math, numbers and words are all symbols. Symbols are the basis of visual art and art is communication. However, it also needs to be understood that "The Occult" has within it's knowledge base, which has been passed down through many ages, abilities to manifest and control energies or forces many people believe to be of a metaphysical spiritual nature. Mysticism is basically the physics of consciousness. Theology is the general study of spirituality or religion. The Occult is a specialized branch of Theology which pursues whatever material, spiritual, psychic, or psychological knowledge that can manipulate and control populations.
While good and bad exist as polarized concepts, so do demons and angels exist as polarized concepts. Just different ways of seeing the same things.

If one wishes to understand what "Occult" practices are really like today in this modern world, they need look no further than Intelligence Agencies, CIA, Mossad, MI6 or any military weapons development program. They practice "The Occult." They are the ones going around the world making every effort to deceive and confuse and misdirect the populations of every land to make certain they have the advantage in business, in government, in academia, in fact everywhere there lies a sphere of influence. Intelligence Agencies are Agencies of Lucifer. They are the ones who are seeking out, gathering, compiling, manipulating, destroying and releasing knowledge of control over others.

In order for this "Occult" practice to continue over the ages, there needs to be an obvious cover story and a Masonic Lodge in every town filled with ignorant social climbers and shrewd local business opportunists allows the higher purposes to be safely ensconced in the local social fabric everywhere. In the same way the greater agenda of government(which the Masons created) is safely hidden behind many layers of bureaucracy. Everyone sees the blundering bureaucrats and assumes government is too stupid to perform any sort of conspiracy, when all the while, practitioners of "The Occult" practice their concealed arts and sciences within the hallowed halls of Academia, Politics, Economics, Military, Religion, the Arts, in fact, everywhere there is a sphere of influence. All branches of the tree, right down to the root.

In other words, "The Sumerian Masonic Occult and the Judaic Babylonian Talmudic Kabbalah" has been blended into the very fabric of our Monotheistic hierarchical pyramidal civilization.

[TheNocturnalEgyptian]

Let this occult thread rise

I miss the heck out of the old names contained herein

[sirgonzo420]

Let this occult thread rise

I miss the heck out of the old names contained herein


Thanks for the bump!

a little blast from the past...

[Horn]

Let this occult thread rise

I miss the heck out of the old names contained herein

I think many part once a certain level of PM holdings is acquired... (i call this the gollum paranoia factor)

I've been around awhile, so you can draw your own conclusions about my slow progression :)

[gunDriller]

i might have some Mason jars. :)

[osoab]

i might have some Mason jars. :)

I got some too, probably need more. :o

[singular_me]

Man can write what ever they want about you call "religion" but there is no book that you can be compared to the one that mother nature shows you every day.

A walk in the woods will show all that you need to know about "God", which I call "The Force". To talk about what we don't know is like jumping in the ocean without knowing how to swim.

People talk about "God" but only because it has been implanted in their mind (brain washing) and not because "God" has told them what he, she or it is.

hey Ponce, glad to see you on here and discover our views on the topic converge.



Up till now I have found out that ALL religions works in the same way......with repetition's of the same words over and over again till such a time that they hypnotized themselves into oblivion.

Thats why too many hold on to their textbooks blindly -- and exactly why my sense of spirituality is more nature/sciences based. following this road, I can adapt my thoughts as they evolve without fearing to lose faith, being proven wrong or even feel threatened.

Cheers to you

Goldissima

[singular_me]

301ouncer, you should know that we have Muslims in our lodge, and that most of the Masonic knowledge came through Islam.
actually thats very true, Arabs mastered mathematics during their golden age... then fell into the trap of fundamentalism... obviously the PTB at the time were afraid of so much knowledge spreading among the populaces.... so deja-vu....

[Old Herb Lady]

hey Ponce, glad to see you on here and discover our views on the topic converge.



Thats why too many hold on to their textbooks blindly -- and exactly why my sense of spirituality is more nature/sciences based. following this road, I can adapt my thoughts as they evolve without fearing to lose faith, being proven wrong or even feel threatened.

Cheers to you

Goldissima


I hope this makes sense cuz it's past 1:00 in the morning & I havent slept right since over-reading and more over-reading about NWO.

Now, what was I gonna say, Oh, I LOVE nature, toooo...... more than I can possibly put into words, however I do not worship it as if it were God.

I worship the Creator not creation. He gave us the gift of nature, a blessing. Spending time outside, in the woods,in the fields, in the garden , in the ocean, etc
can help you get closer to HIM because we are natural beings & He is Supernatural that put all of creation here .

I DO NOT hold on to any any textbooks blindly ? My thoughts evolve, too and I have no fear of losing my faith, ever.

What does that mean ? What are you talking about ? And you agree with Ponce that people who believe in God are brainwashed ? OMG !

That is so sad. Also I could be delirious, but did you say your spirituality is more nature/science based ?

Science now VS. Nature .......Science ruined nature IMO and aren't even close to being in harmony.

Not everyone that loves God and believes in God is a blind follower that listens to some blind preacher getting robbed at a blind church.

You know ?

[Horn]

If you ever become the victor... there are no winners.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hK5NPJ5b2E&feature=related

[singular_me]

Keehah, lol, this explains a lot about your recent postings.

You ain't totally awake dude, nor have you been paying
attention to peoples posts and my posts and what happened
on gim.

You should take a look at my posts in religion section,
your god is your avatar following goldissima around,
she follows the "theosophists" a joke of a name alone
designed to corrupt, and whether you know it or not
you do too, they are easily shamed and discredited
which is why people deny following them but do the
exact same work they promote, and they do it on a
personal level on here, very dishonorable deceivers.

"BY THEIR WORKS YE SHALL KNOW THEM" GSUS

hey again, dear: I read your posting page 16 of this thread in which you said you had a very enjoyable and compelling exchange with a GIM founder... that was surprising to say the least as you keep blasting him on GSUS on a regular basis. Just noticing, nothing more.

I read Krishnamurti a lot over the last past year and do you know what he says? That Faith and virtue cannot be self-imposed otherwise they becomes an ego-centric indulgence that eventually brings misery/insecurity. The problem here is that our environment imposes upon us the choice of our faith. I definitely concur.... that is why I am on a spiritual journey, seeking for myself. edit: true christians are very seldom but they exists, those dont shoot the messengers like you. Yes, I used to to this too as I was not used to deal with being bashed for my ideas. I grew out of that.

What do you mean by theosophists: people who were interested in very ancient religions trying to understand their roots, and which the Roman Church began to prohibit after declaring christianity the only acceptable religion by law.. we all know the disaster of prohibition, some at the top profiting from ignorant masses. So yes theosophists did use their knowledge to enslave mankind.... thats what happens when Knowledge is being cartelized.

Persecution will always get one the opposite reaction. Just like the Jews persecuted for having killed Christ and thus never able to own land/property by law, leaving them the fields of finance and arts. (but eventually anti-usury laws were abolished and jews were free to finally own properties)....They became excellent at that and there is no wonder if they are over-represented in banking and communication.... For many centuries Christians were not allowed to practice usury, and those in the need had to go see a jewish banker. This cliche is very vivid in the psyches.

Coercion and knowledge suppression are the two only evils. Enough said. Just be careful what you wish for... the more you fight, the more you will feed the opposite reaction.

prohibition is always meant to be a conspiracy

[singular_me]

hey OHL... education is corrupt so even mainstream sciences. however there are people, true scientists often ostracized who get it and have valuable data to share. in colleges, students only master in debts.

i dont consider you as a blind follower, you have proven in many occasions that you are open minded, so dont worry, you sound like a very fine lady to me. Really I mean it. :)

[Horn]

That Faith and virtue cannot be self-imposed otherwise they becomes an ego-centric indulgence that eventually brings misery/insecurity. The problem here is that our environment imposes upon us the choice of our faith. I definitely concur.... that is why I am on a spiritual journey, seeking for myself.

True,

Virtue is what one relies upon when attention(faith) is lost or temporarily unavailable (part of the separate ego self) works in the land of "click-clack" psyche.

Loss should occur on a daily basis if you're making any "headway" even though headway IMO ain't the right way... :)

As your attention(faith) center has been with you since day 1.

[singular_me]

I really like what this guy generally sez, Horn, but will listen tomorrow, too tired now, going to bed... thanks for posting

[Horn]

I really like what this guy generally sez, Horn, but will listen tomorrow, too tired now, going to bed... thanks for posting

Night, night "witchy-poo..." :)

[Old Herb Lady]

hey OHL... education is corrupt so even mainstream sciences. however there are people, true scientists often ostracized who get it and have valuable data to share. in colleges, students only master in debts.

i dont consider you as a blind follower, you have proven in many occasions that you are open minded, so dont worry, you sound like a very fine lady to me. Really I mean it. :)

Singular, I just get upset whenever people misunderstand God.

I have been spoken to very condescendingly and harassed in real life by a mason who loves to squash my beliefs.

He pretty much tells me that I should be thankful for his power instead of so against it.

I run every time I see him. RUN I tell you. RUN !
And then he calls me a witch and asks me what kind of brew I'm concocting today.

thank God I have God in me to NOT get squashed !

Everyone has there own set of beliefs , I don't squash others for theirs, I wish others wouldn't squash mine just because they have it in their minds that they are more superior. this superiority complex that people have and the need to tell others how better they are because of their beliefs and their cults is mind boggling to me.

I think I must be slow, no I know I am, but I know one thing without God , I don't think I'd be able to discern very well because once you know God he gives you the ability to take care of yourself when faced with THEM.....whoever THEY are.

You did NOT squash me, that's definitely not what I'm saying at all, but I just don't understand why you are so against Christianity ? did you have bad experiences with some ? we all have .
God Bless.

PS. And the older I get the more I see that life is a constant spiritual warfare.
Youre either with HIM or against HIM.