Ohhhh Ahhhh Ohhhh! Palladium!

[Neuro]

It is about to break $500!. Had a good week. Is Silverbach here?

[coopersmith]

I hope this price holds until I can make it to the shop later in the week, as ive got some nice pall maples id love to trade for some gold.

[Grand Master Melon]

I hope this price holds until I can make it to the shop later in the week, as ive got some nice pall maples id love to trade for some gold.


Maybe I'm crazy but what's the advantage of trading palladium for gold?

[coopersmith]

I see gold as being more recognizable. I bought these particular maples for $360 + $30 premium. They have appreciated $110 in the last 6 months.

[JohnQPublic]

Palladium is $504 right now. It has really recovered well after late 2008 (~$180).

[Neuro]

Palladium is $504 right now. It has really recovered well after late 2008 (~$180).


I think it was down to 158 even... I bought 1.5 ounces at 230... But I am holding it for the long haul... I am thinking $10.000/ounce, but I might get greedy/nervous before that!

[Neuro]

This thread needs a chart:

http://www.kitco.com/LFgif/pd1825nyb.gif

IMO we are still in the early stages of a steep parabolic curve...

[JohnQPublic]

...IMO we are still in the early stages of a steep parabolic curve...


It is nce and smooth. Certainaly not a spike.

[Answer2me]

As silverbach would say, It has been the most predictable metal since its fall.

Nero, only 1.5oz? ??? with all the interest i thought you would be in it for a lot more than that. It is highly speculative but the history is there, IMHO its a better play than silver at this point. My only regret is that i didnt buy in at those low 158$ levels a few years back. I would dare to say that it is still a bargain at these levels, but personally wouldn't buy in over 500$. If we see metals take a bite on the next correction and PD dips back into the 450$ range, might be a good idea to think about getting a few more of those maples. I liked Silverbachs idea of buying into the pool account on monex. The yearly global consumption of palladium is 7.5 million ounces, in 2006 the russians where said to have about 15million ounces left, a 2 year supply, now it is reported that there stock pile is depleted.......For me the highly speculative part has to do with believing the reports, russia, cold fusion...bla bla bla bla bla. Who knows what they have, send me an Fn picture and i might believe! Whatever the case may be palladium has been the best performing metal so far!


Silverbach is on the other forum. he posted on Some BS threads, nothing to do with palladium.

[Answer2me]

For your palladium reading enjoyment.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/185739-palladium-the-bullish-case-now-looks-even-stronger

Russia's Norilsk Nickel Mine (NILSY.PK) is the world's largest nickel mine, with its by-product, palladium, accounting for 45% of the world’s production.

Recent termination of Russian government palladium stockpile sales, due to depletion of the stockpile, is just one of the reasons why palladium has extremely bullish supply/demand fundamentals, and why palladium performed the best among all four precious metals in 2009.

Reduction of palladium production from the Norilsk Mine could further restrain the supply, and may prompt major industry users to panic hoard as they did in 2000/2001.

One must correctly project Norilsk Nickel's 2010 metals production, to have an accurate picture of global platinum and palladium supply/demand outlook for 2010.

Norilsk's Russian operation has two divisions, the Polar Division, which produces platinum and palladium as by-products, and the Kola Division, which handles only nickel and copper.

The Polar Division proven reserve mineral ore contents are as follows:
Ore Type Ni (%) Cu (%) Pt (g/ton) Pd (g/ton) Cu/Ni Ratio
Rich 2.86% 3.98% 1.49 7.04 1.392
Cuprous 1.13% 4.58% 2.57 10.80 4.053
Disseminated 0.49% 0.89% 1.45 3.97 1.816

There are mainly two types of ores, as the third, called disseminated, is insignificant:

1. Rich type, which is rich in nickel but poor in copper, platinum and palladium content.

2. Cuprous type, the opposite, poor in nickel, but rich in copper, platinum and palladium.

In the past, I pointed out that Norilsk was switching to the rich nickel ore to cut costs and increase nickel revenue, or possibly due to the geologic structure of the ore body being mined.

The effect of the production switch is that for the same amount of nickel, much less copper, platinum and palladium will be produced.

The data in the past two years and Norilsk’s own projection for 2010 have confirmed my predictions of this, made in previous posts. The ore type switch can be closely monitored by looking at the Copper/Nickel production ratio and seeing how it changes over time.

Here are the Norilsk Nickel Russian production numbers (Polar + Kola Divisions) over the years, plus 2010 projections:
Year Ni (tons) Cu (tons) Pt (troy oz) ±% Pd (troy oz) ±% Cu/Ni
2005 243,000 427,000 751,000 3,133,000 1.757
2006 244,000 425,000 752,000 +0.13% 3,164,000 +0.99% 1.742
2007 234,454 404,465 727,000 -3.32% 3,049,000 -3.63% 1.725
2008 232,302 400,338 632,000 -13.1% 2,702,000 -11.4% 1,723
2009 232,813 382,443 636,000 +0.63% 2,676,000 -0.96% 1.643
2010* 234,000 363,000 655,000 +2.99% 2,715,000 +1.46% 1.551

(* Based on Norilsk Nickel projection for 2010)

We are interested in palladium, so we want to see only the productions of the Polar Division. After subtracting the Kola Division, here are the numbers for the Polar Division:
Year Ni (tons) Cu (tons) Pt (troy oz) ±% Pd (troy oz) ±% Cu/Ni
2005 123,000 361,000 751,000 3,133,000 2.935
2006 122,000 351,000 752,000 +0.13% 3,164,000 +0.99% 2.877
2007 119,000 338,000 727,000 -3.32% 3,049,000 -3.63% 2.840
2008 122,000 339,000 632,000 -13.1% 2,702,000 -11.4% 2.779
2009 122,813 321,443 636,000 +0.63% 2,676,000 -0.96% 2.617
2010* 124,000 302,000 655,000 +2.99% 2,715,000 +1.46% 2.435

(* Based on Norilsk Nickel projection for 2010)

As shown in the chart, nickel production has remained pretty flat over the years. However the copper/nickel ratio consistently dropped. The drop of the Cu/Ni ratio accelerated since 2008 and continues to go significantly down in 2010 projections.

As a result, I predict Norilsk’s palladium production in 2010 will not go up slightly as projected by Norilsk Nickel itself, but rather, should continue to drop significantly from 2009 levels, commensurate with the drop of the copper/nickel production ratio.

I am predicting a palladium production level at 2.55M ounces for 2010, and platinum at 600K ounces.

Is it ridiculous to expect that readers should believe my prediction, rather than Norilsk’s own prediction? From early 2008 on, based on my observation of the ore type switch, I insisted on my prediction of Norilsk palladium production at 2.7M level for 2008.

But Norilsk has re-iterated that it’s on target to reach 2008 palladium production levels of 3.02M to 3.07M ounces. They still insist that previous full year projections were unchanged. In Q3 they did not revise annual guidance either. When the final result of 2008 came out to be 2.7M ounces, I was right, Norilsk Nickel was wrong. Why they insist on a wrong and overly optimistic guidance, is beyond me.

The bullish case for global palladium markets now looks even stronger. Investors in the world’s only primary palladium producers, Stillwater Mining (SWC) and North American Palladium (PAL), will stand to profit from the expected palladium price surge in 2010.

After falling continuously for 8 days, for a healthy correction from recent high, it’s now time to buy back these two stocks, SWC and PAL.

[Neuro]

Applause for Answer2Me for his post.

Palladium looks very solid right now trading at around 520/ounce. I would expect a pullback at around 580 (March 2008 high) before it goes stratospheric! It would still keep it's nice parabolic shape if it goes down to around 500 from 580...

Anyway I guess I should have more Palladium to match all the touting I am doing for it. ;) Anyway I just bought it like a fun play a year ago, and it has been fun following it... Maybe I buy a few ounces more if my above prediction goes in (at around 500)... Of course it would be even more fun to have more when it goes to the moon!

[jedemdasseine]

In Asia and the Middle East, there is growing demand for palladium in a surprising area: as an alloy, especially a gold alloy. For exotic gold alloys, such as 19k purple gold, palladium is frequently the metal of choice and often, necessity. Some metallurgists spend years perfecting the right alloy, so as to allow for just the right color, ductility, tensility, and other properties. Palladium seems to be used more frequently than other, cheaper metals in alloyed jewelry. Exotic gold-palladium alloys are popular in high fashion jewelry and among the ultra-wealthy. Palladium alloys in general are attracting attention in Abu Dhabi, Singapore, Hong Kong, and other centers of wealth in the east.

http://www.leehwajewellery.com/
Lee Hwa is truly one of the finest goldsmiths ever. He's invented new alloys––––such as silver-titanium, green gold, black gold, and purple gold––––that were once deemed chemically impossible. Presently, he's focusing much of his current endeavors on palladium.

[Neuro]

An applaud for you to Jedem!!! Never heard of purple gold! Black gold should be popular in the gulf states!

[Answer2me]

In Asia and the Middle East, there is growing demand for palladium in a surprising area: as an alloy, especially a gold alloy. For exotic gold alloys, such as 19k purple gold, palladium is frequently the metal of choice and often, necessity. Some metallurgists spend years perfecting the right alloy, so as to allow for just the right color, ductility, tensility, and other properties. Palladium seems to be used more frequently than other, cheaper metals in alloyed jewelry. Exotic gold-palladium alloys are popular in high fashion jewelry and among the ultra-wealthy. Palladium alloys in general are attracting attention in Abu Dhabi, Singapore, Hong Kong, and other centers of wealth in the east.

http://www.leehwajewellery.com/
Lee Hwa is truly one of the finest goldsmiths ever. He's invented new alloys––––such as silver-titanium, green gold, black gold, and purple gold––––that were once deemed chemically impossible. Presently, he's focusing much of his current endeavors on palladium.


I have read that a lot of jewlers are using palladium as a subsitute for platnium, since platinum is so expensive now. Keep this in mind when you see palladium trade for more US$ than platnium.

Nero,

It is fun this palladium market! Something good to watch as we weight for the big boys to do there thing. Im in, if your prediction holds true, i to will add to my position.

Gotta get me some of that purple gold!

Be cool, 8)
answer2me

[Neuro]

Palladium is strong today despite general PM weakness it is still holding up nicely at 524 now. Why can't we have Palladium in the PM bar at this forum?

[Neuro]

wow it is really rocking now 539 (was up to 545)...

[TLM]

I woke up to $550 palladium this morning.
Too bad I only own one Pd Maple :-\

[steyr_m]

Palladium is $504 right now. It has really recovered well after late 2008 (~$180).


I know. My problem is that I don't know where to pick up Palladium in my city...

[DMac]

+21.00 as of 2:50pm est

WOW!

http://www.kitco.com/images/live/plad.gif

[Horn]

Why does the Palladium chart look like a seismograph? :imskerd:

[DMac]

Wondered the same thing Horn, it is an odd looking chart.

[Answer2me]

Why does the Palladium chart look like a seismograph? :imskerd:




Because it is about to erupt! :boom


Lets wait for that 2008 high of 580$ for the pull back. If it can hold strong, 600$ will be its next target, after that...........

[JohnQPublic]

Why does the Palladium chart look like a seismograph? :imskerd:




I think because you need to bid in specific sized increments (maybe $1), i.e., if Pd is $541.00, the next bid is $542.00, not $541.01 . This makes each new bid look like a step instead of a smooth curve upwards.

[chad]

rock on! to my 5 ounces of pamp pd!

[Neuro]

rock on! to my 5 ounces of pamp pd!
you rich bastard!

[chad]

DON'T HATE THE PLAYA, HATE THE GAME. ;D

[Shoden]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Consensus-Appears-to-Be-iw-477241174.html?x=0&.v=1



Consensus Appears to Be Emerging on Palladium Outlook

COLUMBUS, MT--(Marketwire - 04/15/10) - STILLWATER MINING COMPANY (NYSE:SWC - News) today commented that a consensus appears to be forming around the tightening market outlook for palladium supplies. The company issued a press release last week in conjunction with the mailing of its Annual Report to Shareholders in which it quoted the company's chairman and CEO, Frank McAllister, as saying, "a fundamental palladium market deficit potentially lies directly ahead which will leave incremental palladium supply reliant on existing stocks, recycling supply, ... and still [will fall] short of meeting demand." Included in the company's Annual Report is a section entitled, "The Case for Palladium" which elaborates on the supply and demand factors which contribute to the company's view.

On Tuesday, Bloomberg quoted Neville Nicholau, the chief executive officer of Anglo Platinum Ltd. -- the largest South African PGM producer -- noting, "Palladium may be in deficit for most of the next decade as Russia depletes inventories and uses for the metal increase." Anglo Platinum produces 21 percent of the world's palladium output.

Similarly, Derek Engelbrecht, marketing group executive of Impala Platinum, in February of this year commented that he expected the palladium market to swing from a surplus of 305,000 ounces in 2009 to a deficit of 810,000 ounces in 2010. He also projected that the palladium price could double over the next five years -- the palladium price at the time he made this comment was about $430 per ounce, compared to $545 per ounce Wednesday afternoon in London.

And the president of Audi America, Johan de Nysschen, was quoted in Automotive News on Tuesday as saying the carmaker is "short of everything" in the U.S., referring to a sharp rebound in 2010 auto sales. Commenting on this remark, Automotive News noted, "...one of our strongest convictions this year is for a rebound in auto-related PGM demand as worldwide vehicle production rises, forcing a restocking of the metal inventories run down in 2009. The Audi comments reinforce our view that there is limited excess supply in the system: with inventories low, returning U.S. auto demand this year had caused a much greater production response. U.S. car and truck production year to date (April 10) is up 63.4% from a year earlier. Given that the U.S. is primarily a gasoline market, this is good news mainly for palladium, but platinum also reaps some benefits from the heavy-duty sector."

[JohnQPublic]

$557 tonight. Palladium price is like California RE prices- it never goes down :).

[Neuro]

$557 tonight. Palladium price is like California RE prices- it never goes down :).
Probably I missed the pullback, seems like it is going to zoom past 580, any day now. Damn it went up to 560 then pulled back to 515 and now it is up to the 560 level again. We need pics of some cold fusion rockets to get it back to 500 now...

[Neuro]

Earlier today it was up and touching at the multiyear high at around 580... Either it will go down sharply from here to around 500, before it blasts through this level, or it will go through now...

I am leaning towards it going through now, with a peak this year around 1000-1100...

[JohnQPublic]

...

I am leaning towards it going through now, with a peak this year around 1000-1100...


I hope you are right !

If gold moves more slowly (as has been the case) we may be able to trade Pd for gold close to 1:1 pretty soon!

[Neuro]

Did anyone load up on Palladium today at sub 500?

Damn I was just to damn busy today to go and get some more!

[Answer2me]

watch what it will do before you buy in, i always buy when it starts to go up after a major correction. it might dip a bit more. I am watching........

[Answer2me]

http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/story/10748763/1/palladium-prices-set-to-rally.html?cm_ven=YAHOO&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA

[Spectrism]

PAL & SWC took some serious haircuts.

Where is our cheerleader for these? Remember the leveraged buy plan he proposed?

[Answer2me]

that would be our man silverbach who is still leveraged to hell!

A recent quote:

"When it goes against me, on the way it moves down, I am forced to periodically sell some to reduce the margin pressure and maintain the margin ratio at tolerable level. Of course the gain will be destroyed.

But the good thing is when it moves back up again you can then aggressively add position using increased margin buying power again. You probably end up paying a bit more than where you sold buying back the same shares. It's a reasonable loss due to extreme volatility. But overall, if the big trend is correct, you still make a lot of money using the margin strategy.

A portion of my MONEX palladium pool positions are probably sold. I plan to buy back when palladium is back to $450 and I plan to add even more cash and buying more aggressively, because the strategy is still working so far."

Come on, how can you not admire the man for trying.

[Neuro]

Yeah selling due to margin calls is a Sisyfos job. In some ways I do a bit of margin trading sometimes too, by buying food and stuff on wifes cc, when I think metals are very cheap, and I use the cash for that, only ones did it backfire, and I had to sell the low for cash, it hurts like hell, and still it was less than a kilo of silver...

[Neuro]

Gigantic cup and handle forming? Seems like we start getting back over 500 again...

[Stop Making Cents]

Palladium seems to be making a move in the last few weeks. I was hoping for another chance to buy some in the 300's, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen anytime soon.

[DMac]

I sold out my PALL holdings today. Bought back in July (+$10/share 44-55). :)

Silverbach was right about buying Pd on the dips and selling on the rise up. It has been like clockwork the past couple years.

[Neuro]

Palladium seems to be making a move in the last few weeks. I was hoping for another chance to buy some in the 300's, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen anytime soon.

Palladium will never be in the 300's ever again, unless a new Currency is introduced!

[Neuro]

I sold out my PALL holdings today. Bought back in July (+$10/share 44-55). :)

Silverbach was right about buying Pd on the dips and selling on the rise up. It has been like clockwork the past couple years.
Too early IMO, Pd will break out soon!

[StackerKen]

I couldn't help notice the impressive moves Palladium has made the yesterday and today....shoot..and the past year....

[DMac]

I sold out my PALL holdings today. Bought back in July (+$10/share 44-55). :)

Silverbach was right about buying Pd on the dips and selling on the rise up. It has been like clockwork the past couple years.
Too early IMO, Pd will break out soon!


Could be. Physical Pd will not leave my hands. Paper - that's another story. $10/share is good in my book!

edit: as Sagi (RIP GIM) once told me, no one ever went broke taking profits.

[Neuro]

I sold out my PALL holdings today. Bought back in July (+$10/share 44-55). :)

Silverbach was right about buying Pd on the dips and selling on the rise up. It has been like clockwork the past couple years.
Too early IMO, Pd will break out soon!


Could be. Physical Pd will not leave my hands. Paper - that's another story. $10/share is good in my book!
edit: as Sagi (RIP GIM) once told me, no one ever went broke taking profits.
Oh indeed, and I agree with your priorities. There is a possibility that Pd will bounce one time from around 580 to low 500's before breakout of the cup and handle formation too. Congratulations to your paper profit, transform it to real stuff pronto!

[Neuro]

This thread needs a chart:

http://www.kitco.com/LFgif/pd1825nyb.gif

IMO we are still in the early stages of a steep parabolic curve...

I think Pd was up and smelled a multi year high today. It should take off once over 600 IMO, but I wouldn't be surprised if we go back to low 500's before that happens!

[MNeagle]

Palladium Explodes to the Upside

Submitted by madhedgefundtrader on 10/03/2010 08:32 -0500

Exchange Traded FundFree MoneyToyota


If you are thrilled about the recent performance of gold, you have to be absolutely ecstatic about the ballistic rise of palladium, which has soared by 35% in the past two months. Regular readers who already know that I have been pounding the table all year on palladium are now cashing in big time. Double dippers beware! Moves like this by industrial commodities do not occur in the face of a collapsing economy.

Palladium, named after Pallas, the Greek goddess of wisdom, has been mined in South America for over 1,000 years, was discovered as an element in 1804, and saw jewelry use start in 1939. But in 1975 it really came into its own when a nascent environmental movement got legislation passed requiring catalytic converters on all new American cars.
Toyota’s USA’s president, Jim Lentz, believes that the US car market will recover from the present 12 million annual units to 15 million by 2015. You can forget the drug induced haze of 20 million annual units free money brought us, returning in our lifetime. Fewer than one million of these will be hybrids or electrics. That means industry demand for catalytic converters is ramping up by 3 million units a year.

Which catalyst will the auto makers choose? Palladium at $580 an ounce or platinum at $1,680 an ounce? Hmmmm, let me think. They do have new management now, so maybe they’ll figure it out. Some 80% of the world’s palladium production comes from Russia and South Africa, dubious sources on the best of days. That means that a long position in this white metal gives you a free call on political instability in these two less than perfectly run countries.

Also known as the “poor man’s platinum,” demand for palladium for jewelry in China has been soaring with the growth of the middle class. On top of this, you can add $387 million of new demand from the palladium ETF (PALL) launched in January, which will soak up a hefty 10% of the world’s production.

Those set up to trade the futures can play the Decembers contract, where a margin of $3,713 gets you a 100 ounce exposure worth $53,900. If you are looking for something to stash in your gun safe, bury in the backyard, or give to the grandkids on their college graduation, get physical. You can buy 100 ounce bars at $50 over spot, or Royal Canadian Mint one ounce .9995% fine palladium Maple Leaf coins at $50 over spot. And yes, you can even buy them on Amazon by clicking here at http://www.amazon.com/Palladium-Ounce-Canadian-Maple-Leaf/dp/B003S2M49M/ref=sr_1_1?s=gateway&ie=UTF8&qid=1285257880&sr=8-1

To see the data, charts, and graphs that support this research piece, as well as more iconoclastic and out-of-consensus analysis, please visit me at www.madhedgefundtrader.com . There, you will find the conventional wisdom mercilessly flailed and tortured daily, and my last two years of research reports available for free. You can also listen to me on Hedge Fund Radio by clicking on “This Week on Hedge Fund Radio” in the upper right corner of my home page.

ZH (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/palladium-explodes-upside?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+zerohedge%2Ffeed+%28zero+hedg e+-+on+a+long+enough+timeline%2C+the+survival+rate+fo r+everyone+drops+to+zero%29)

[Neuro]

Today it seems Palladium has broken out! I think it has an all-time high at around $1000/ounce. It may be that it won't reach resistance until that level...

[chad]

i'm unsure of whether to sell it at $1,000 or hold out for insane-tin-foil-hat cold fusion $10,000 pricing.

[Neuro]

i'm unsure of whether to sell it at $1,000 or hold out for insane-tin-foil-hat cold fusion $10,000 pricing.
I know! I just have 1.5 ounces of it, so I probably just hold out for the insane. But on the other hand, it is not a very good SHTF metal, which may be more likely short term than the up in the cloud cold fusion 10.000 level. If you have a few ounces maybe sell half at a thousand, and you keep the rest free of charge with a few dollars in your pocket, for possible insane gains...

[Neuro]

Now isn't this a beauty?

http://www.kitco.com/LFgif/pd1825nyb.gif

It has broken out of it's gigantic cup and handle formation, and today it appears it has decisively broken the 600 barrier, with a high today of 624, right now trading at 610. Next stop $1000/ounce!?!

[chad]

if it hits $1,000, i'm selling it and paying off my house.

[Plastic]

I grabbed a single ounce when was 180.00 roughly (cost me 220.00), wish I had the 2,200 for that 10 oz bar my dealer was taunting me with. As with some here I am holding it for cold fusion just in case but will prob trade it for silver if/when it hits 1,000.

[Neuro]

Another extraordinary day for Pd right now up $20 to $628...

[JohnQPublic]

CFTC announced that there is fraud in silver (surprise, surprise). This may be breaking everything free.

[osoab]

I grabbed a single ounce when was 180.00 roughly (cost me 220.00), wish I had the 2,200 for that 10 oz bar my dealer was taunting me with. As with some here I am holding it for cold fusion just in case but will prob trade it for silver if/when it hits 1,000.


I also bought my only ounce at that range.

Late 08 or early 09. Best damn idea I have probably had to date.

Keep kicking myself for not picking up more. Oh well.

[Plastic]

I grabbed a single ounce when was 180.00 roughly (cost me 220.00), wish I had the 2,200 for that 10 oz bar my dealer was taunting me with. As with some here I am holding it for cold fusion just in case but will prob trade it for silver if/when it hits 1,000.


I also bought my only ounce at that range.

Late 08 or early 09. Best damn idea I have probably had to date.

Keep kicking myself for not picking up more. Oh well.



Yup, I shoulda put that damned bar on my credit card.

Friggen hindsight......

[platinumdude]

http://www.kitco.com/reports/KitcoNewsMarketNuggets20101027.html

Barclays Capital says labor-related supply disruptions have the potential to widen its forecast for the supply/demand deficit in the palladium market. In its daily report, Barclays cites improving industrial and strong investor demand. On the supply side, the bank cites improvement in Aquarius Platinum’s output for platinum and palladium in the early part of the fiscal year that ends next June 30, but maintains fiscal-year 2011 production guidance. However, the National Union of Mineworkers says more employees have joined a four-week strike at the Anglo Platinum and Xstrata Matotolo mine. “Given the ongoing recovery in underlying PGM demand, and our expectations for only modest mine supply growth this year and next, supply disruptions are likely to deepen our forecasted market deficit.”

[Neuro]

if it hits $1,000, i'm selling it and paying off my house.
Do you only owe 5000 on your house, or did you increase your holdings in secret?... 8)

[Book]

Over half of the supply of palladium and its congener platinum goes into catalytic converters, which convert up to 90% of harmful gases from auto exhaust (hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide and nitrogen oxide) into less harmful substances (nitrogen, carbon dioxide and water vapor).

Won't be much demand for Palladium when soon most Americans are jobless and homeless and carless.

http://cache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/recess_03_18/r32_18254339.jpg

[chad]

if it hits $1,000, i'm selling it and paying off my house.
Do you only owe 5000 on your house, or did you increase your holdings in secret?... 8)


increased holdings this summer. ;D

[Neuro]

if it hits $1,000, i'm selling it and paying off my house.
Do you only owe 5000 on your house, or did you increase your holdings in secret?... 8)


increased holdings this summer. ;D

WELL DONE! You are a ****** genius Chad! Still keep a couple of ounces to hold out for the incredible, will ya.?

[PatColo]

can you say DAYUM! (http://www.crbtrader.com/data.asp?&page=chart&sym=PAZ10&width=600&tblwidth=600)


btw what's up copper's (http://www.crbtrader.com/data.asp?&page=chart&sym=HGZ10&width=600&tblwidth=600) butt today? join the party buddy! |--0--|

[chad]

if it hits $1,000, i'm selling it and paying off my house.
Do you only owe 5000 on your house, or did you increase your holdings in secret?... 8)


increased holdings this summer. ;D

WELL DONE! You are a ****** genius Chad! Still keep a couple of ounces to hold out for the incredible, will ya.?


i have decided i'll always keep 5 ounces. there's some guy on ebay selling 5 gram sealed bars for $145 delivered. high i know, but i bought one anyway :D

[PatColo]

palladium weekly chart,

+$54, or 9.1%

"Mind the Gap" as they say in London ;D

[Neuro]

Pd was earlier today at 701. Right now trading at 693...

[Plastic]

Pd was earlier today at 701. Right now trading at 693...



709.00 now. :P

[Neuro]

Mindbuckling!

$734 right now with a new high of 741. It is keeping the pace with silver even!

[JohnQPublic]

I noticed one point yesterday that Pd had gone up $25 while Pt went up $8. 3x the rise at less than 1/2 the price this is greater than 6x the performance. Go Pd, go!

[Plastic]

It is up 28 bones so far today, damn right back up to 725.00 an ounce.

[PatColo]

Pd has exceeded its early Nov high, first of any of the PMs (& even copper) to do so, see Mar-11 contract (http://www.crbtrader.com/data.asp?&page=chart&sym=PAH11&width=600&tblwidth=600), leader of the pack, woot! 8)

[Neuro]

Pd has exceeded its early Nov high, first of any of the PMs (& even copper) to do so, see Mar-11 contract (http://www.crbtrader.com/data.asp?&page=chart&sym=PAH11&width=600&tblwidth=600), leader of the pack, woot! 8)
It is getting the booster rockets warmed up...

[JohnQPublic]

Pd is kicking butt again today! Palladium rockets?

[Neuro]

Pd is kicking butt again today! Palladium rockets?
And there is no talk about cold fusion yet! That may fuel a real rocket. Not to mention propel Pd to 10k!

[JohnQPublic]

Pd is kicking butt again today! Palladium rockets?
And there is no talk about cold fusion yet! That may fuel a real rocket. Not to mention propel Pd to 10k!


If cold fusion is a real phenomenon, Pd could be $25,000-$100,000!

[Plastic]

And I only have 1 ounce of the stuff... :(

[Neuro]

Pd is kicking butt again today! Palladium rockets?
And there is no talk about cold fusion yet! That may fuel a real rocket. Not to mention propel Pd to 10k!


If cold fusion is a real phenomenon, Pd could be $25,000-$100,000!
Oh definitely, but I expect just the rumor of it being real would propel it to 10k/ounce, and it is not totally impossible it will happen in this run up, even within a year or two... Damn it Rhodium went from 300 to 10 k on just a perceived shortage in a couple of years. And then it went from 10k to 800 in 6 months or so...

[Neuro]

Today Pd seems to break out again, been up to $777, which I think is a new record, possibly we will see a thousand dollars in January or February! Beautiful parabolic chart!

[JohnQPublic]

A little item to keep your eye on:

Outlook 2011: China Says No More Cars, Down Goes the Auto Industry (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/outlook-2011-china-says-no-more-cars-down-goes-auto-industry)

By Dian L. Chu, EconForecast

While the world is still unwrapping the surprise Christmas gift from China in the form of a interest rate hike of 25 basis points, this other piece of news with ample implication to the auto industry seems to have gone largely under the radar--The City of Beijing will limit the number of new license plates issued in 2011 to 240,000 to help control traffic congestion. Xinhua reported that car buyers in Beijing will have to draw lots before obtaining a vehicle license plate.

Beijing – An Auto Gold Mine

In 2009, Chinese government introduced tax incentives for cars with engine sizes of 1.6 liters or smaller. The move propelled China to the world’s biggest auto market that year, surpassing the United States. The trend has continued in the first 11 months of 2010--automakers in China shipped a total of 16.4 million vehicles, up 34% year-over-year.

Beijing is China's largest auto market and regarded by auto manufacturers as a gold mine. Statistics from the Beijing Municipal Commission of Transport show that the city's total number of automobiles stood at around 4.8 million, up almost 85% from 2005.

Carriage Before Horse

The problem is that the Chinese government is putting the carriage before the horse--encouraging consumers to buy cars without building enough roads and parking lots to support the auto boom. This problem is not unique to the city of Beijing, although it is the first resorting to this somewhat drastic measure to alleviate its horrendous traffic situation.

50% Drop in New Car Sales

With this new vehicle limit, China Automobile Dealers Association already came out with estimate that new car sales in Beijing are likely to decline 50% to around 400,000 next year.

Although this policy is only implemented in Beijing, it could have great influence over other large cities as Beijing is hardly the only city with poor urban planning suffering from the Great Traffic Jam, which could be a huge blow to the auto industry.

China – A Critical Auto Success Factor

China has been a major salvation to global automakers that are still struggling from a severe downturn in 2009 in the developed car markets. As such, position in China has become one of the most critical aspects of any auto company’s success. General Motor (GM), Volkswagen AG, Toyota Motor (TM), Ford Motor (F), and other industry heavy weights are all competing intensely for a bigger slice of the Chinese market (See China Car Market Chart).

Although China auto market is expected to slow down in the coming years (see Predicted Sales Chart) partly because the tax incentives that help drive the auto sales are set to expire on Dec. 31, 2010, the world’s top auto companies still have high hopes for China.

Great Auto Growth Sans Roads & Parking?

Bloomberg reported that world’s largest automakers-GM, Volkswagen, Toyota, and Nissan all expect sales in China to grow anywhere from 10% to 17% in 2011. While most auto companies commented that it is too soon to talk about the effect this measure will have on car sales, there’s no getting around the fact that without sufficient roads and parking spaces, any great growth potential (See Predicted Sales Chart) in China is basically meaningless.

Infrastructure Gap For The Next Decade

As discussed in my previous analysis, China has inadequate logistic infrastructure to meet the needs of its mass population and heavy industrial business, partly reflecting poor planning by the local and central officials. As much as the country has been racing to build and upgrade its transportation system, this new restriction speaks volume that the deficiency most likely will persist in the next decade or so.

Raw-Material Heavy Cost Structure

Conceivably, the new vehicle cap, the also new 4% increase on fuel prices, and the latest interest rate hike to rein in escalating inflation and asset bubbles would constitute a triple whammy to the already severely recession-hit auto sector. Furthermore, since the automaker cost structure is heavy on the raw material, the global inflation pressure would hit input costs more so than other sectors.

Then, you also have companies already made resource commitments based on the prior robust China growth forecasts. For example, Ford will open 66 new dealerships in China by the end of the year, bringing its total to 100 new dealers in the country in 2010 and its total number of outlets to 340. Daimler AG also plans to invest €3 billion by 2015 to expand its production facilities in China.

Beware of the “Bullwhip Effect”

This suggests automaker stocks and/or ETFs, mutual funds with Chinese auto exposure, including but not limited to the aforementioned companies, could be subject to significant revaluation based on new tightening measures coming out of China, which could only intensify and likely extend beyond 2011. And this could also have a “Bullwhip Effect” up and down the entire auto supply chain.

Auto Sector Could Be A Short

Shares of Chinese (see China Car Maker Ranking Table) and German automakers like SAIC Motor Corp. (600104:SS), China’s largest automaker, Hyundai Motor Co., South Korea’s biggest carmaker, BMW, Volkswagen AG, are already seeing selling pressure after city of Beijing decision to impose the limit. Further selloff could be expected as fund managers and traders start doing some serious portfolio VaR shuffling after the start of the New Year.

Compared to its peer group, GM is probably the most vulnerable, as China has become the largest single market for GM since the first half of 2010, surpassing the home market. So, it looks like American taxpayers would need to wait a bit longer for GM to pay off the taxpayer-funded bailout.

Nevertheless, look on the bright side--it is fortunate that GM’s IPO took place before these negative announcements came out, so GM was able to plow $1.8 billion of the IPO money back to the U.S. Treasury Dept.

[JohnQPublic]

Regardless, as I see the ticker right now both PD and Pt are up $20!. For Pt that is 1.1%, for Pd that is 2.6%. Pd is one hot doggie (no offense to the silver dog).

[RJB]

Pd touched 800.

[JohnQPublic]

Ending price, 2010: $800.00 ! ;D

[Neuro]

Ending price, 2010: $800.00 ! ;D
Not a bad year for Palladium!

[JohnQPublic]

http://gold-silver.us/forum/gallery/1_01_01_11_3_22_52.jpeg

[Neuro]

Here we go again! :)
http://www.kitco.com/LFgif/pd1825nyb.gif

[chad]

hard to believe that for once, i timed the purchase of something PERFECTLY. ;D

[Neuro]

hard to believe that for once, i timed the purchase of something PERFECTLY. ;D
Yeah, and then comes the tragic boating accident! ;)

[Neuro]

Pd holds up incredibly well in this day of PM doom...

January 18, 2011 12:22 GMT
Platinum and palladium recorded the second consecutive year of positive returns, rising +20.5% and 97.2% respectively, in 2010. Recovery in the auto sector and robust investment demand for precious metals were key reasons for the impressive performance. PGMs remained firm in the first 2 weeks in 2011 with platinum rising to 1833, the highest level since July 2008, and palladium to 825.1, a level not seen since March 2011. PGM prices should continue to perform well this year as driven by strong African rand and supply shortage in the palladium market.

Related Articles

Housing and jobs numbers signal firmer economy
Wall St drops as earnings miss high hopes
Questioning Credibility of Greenback Weakness Over the Past Few Days
Related Topics

China GDP Russia South Africa

We are more bullish on palladium than platinum as the demand/supply outlook for the former is tighter. While there lacks information on Russia's palladium stock sales, the consensus view is that Russian stocks have almost depleted. Over the past few years, sales from Russian state stockpiles reached were 0.9-1M oz, the 3rd-largest contributor to world supply after mine output from South Africa and Russia. If Russia continues to draw a similar amount from stockpiles this year, the palladium market will be at small surplus. If Russia has indeed exhausted state inventories of the metal, the market will definitely be in deficit. In any case, strong production growth in gasoline-fuelled light vehicle will drive the metal to deficit in the medium-term.

Must Read

Bubble Ball dethrones Angry Birds as No.1 free game app on Apple iTunes
Notion Ink Adam shipping today, to take on Motorola Xoom

According to the China Association of Automobile Manufacturers, China's vehicle sales may grow +10% to +15% this year after surging +32% to 18.06M units in 2010. Robust growth in Chinese auto demand will be driven higher per capita GDP and increase in passenger car density from the low base. In the US, recovery in the auto market as macroeconomic outlook improves will also benefit palladium.

Johnson Matthey said in an interim report that platinum will be in surplus by 290 000 oz in 2010 while the market had anticipated a deficit year due to EU incentive schemes and low mine supply. We expect platinum to remain in surplus in 2011 as increase in vehicle production will be offset by lower jewelry demand and greater level of recycling. That said, platinum price will be supported by higher import costs and appreciation in 2011...

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/102036/20110118/strenghth-in-palladium-continues-in-2011.htm#

[osoab]

Timberrrrrrr!

http://www.kitco.com/images/live/plad.gif

[Neuro]

The last peak in Pd doesn't look as "perky" as previous peaks, does anyone know if this has any significance. Obviously it is not a blow off top, which is good, but could it signal that Pd is going to consolidate for some time?

[Antonio]

Oil is going to 200$, less people will be buying new cars, less Pd demand.SHTF is around the corner and clean air won`t be a priority.

[Neuro]

Oil is going to 200$, less people will be buying new cars, less Pd demand.SHTF is around the corner and clean air won`t be a priority.
Yes $200 oil would dampen the demand for new cars.

[G2Rad]

atricle on platinum and palladium:

is here (http://seekingalpha.com/article/256989-platinum-and-palladium-the-new-normal?source=hp_wc&wc_num=3)

[Neuro]

atricle on platinum and palladium:

is here (http://seekingalpha.com/article/256989-platinum-and-palladium-the-new-normal?source=hp_wc&wc_num=3)
Following that article, there was a very interesting comment, regarding how Norilsk nickel is changing how it is extracting nickel from the ore of which Palladium is a byproduct. Apparently the new process involves fine grinding the ore, to extract close to 100% of the nickel, compared to previously 70%, however this means that very little palladium will be extracted, and right now the Norilsk mine account for around 40% of worlds Pd supply at around 2.2-2.3 million oz. The author Mark Anthony believes Norilsk will only get out around 1 million oz of Pd, with the new process in place, a major reason for the new process being implemented is also environmental concerns. Sorry, I couldn't copy his response, but I recommend anyone to go in and read the article and the responses!

[Neuro]

The last peak in Pd doesn't look as "perky" as previous peaks, does anyone know if this has any significance. Obviously it is not a blow off top, which is good, but could it signal that Pd is going to consolidate for some time?
Yes it has consolidated now for 5 months or so.... If it closes well above around $770-780 I think the wedge pattern that it has formed is broken, and from a purely technical standpoint it could very well, soon be up to a thousand or more, however it should break out of the wedge soon, otherwise its 3 year parabolic pattern is soon to be broken, and we should see a big fall...

[Neuro]

Looks good today. We could very soon see $1000+ Pd!

[osoab]

Back above 800. ;D

[Neuro]

Back above 800. ;D
YES! 1000 Palladium is coming soon! ;D

[JohnQPublic]

http://www.kitco.com/reports/KitcoNewsMarketNuggets20110609_b.html


Market Nuggets: Nymex Palladium Options Volume Sets Record High
09 June 2011, 2:47 p.m.
By Kitco News
http://www.kitco.com/

(Kitco News) -- Nymex palladium options hit a daily volume record of 2,278 contracts Wednesday, reports CME Group, operator of the exchange. The tally surpassed the previous record of 2,000 contracts set on Nov. 8, 2010.

By Allen Sykora of Kitco News; asykora@kitco.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Market Nuggets: Standard Targets $950 Palladium On Basis Of Palladium-Adjusted Auto Sales
09 June 2011, 9:54 a.m.
By Kitco News
http://www.kitco.com/

(Kitco News) -- Standard Bank still targets $950 for palladium based on expectations for palladium-adjusted auto sales. The bank notes that auto sales alone do not totally reflect palladium demand. “To correct for the skewed usage of palladium in different auto markets, we weight auto sales per region by the amount of palladium consumed in auto catalytic converters in the specific market,” Standard says. The bank says 2010 palladium-adjusted auto sales were low but improved, while 2011 sales are matching 2010. Further, a seasonal pick-up is expected toward year-end. “We believe that our palladium-adjusted auto sales numbers in 2011 should get close to 2007 levels, driven largely by sales growth in China,” Standard says. The bank concludes: “One of the main driving forces behind the palladium-adjusted auto sales being better than platinum-adjusted auto sales is that China consumes more palladium for auto use. We still target $950 for palladium, and believe that the fundamental floor is at $700.”

By Allen Sykora of Kitco News; asykora@kitco.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Market Nuggets: HSBC: Calls For South Africa Nationalization Could Affect Mine Investment

09 June 2011, 7:57 a.m.
By Kitco News
http://www.kitco.com/

(Kitco News) -- Calls for nationalization of mines in South Africa could offer support for gold and platinum group metals, even though government policy so far is not to nationalize mines, HSBC says. Analysts note that the leader of the African National Congress’ Youth League has reiterated his view that mines should be nationalized. Also, a film in favor of nationalization, "Mining for Change: A Story of South African Mining," is showing at the Encounters South African International Documentary Film Festival in Johannesburg and Cape Town. HSBC notes that the ANC previously abandoned a policy of nationalization under Nelson Mandela’s administration in the early 1990s, although a black empowerment program calls for 26% of the mining sector to be black-owned by 2014. “Even though senior ANC officials have rejected nationalization, repeated calls from the youth wing and more radical elements of the party may be enough to deter investment in the mining sectors, thereby reducing gold and PGM output to below levels that would otherwise be the case,” HSBC says. “Given South Africa’s massive gold and even greater PGM reserves, this could have long-run bullish consequences for prices.”

By Allen Sykora of Kitco News; asykora@kitco.com

[Neuro]

So auto industry demand of Pd is up this year. Meanwhile South African miners may/will not invest in maintaining production, due to political threats. Further from my comment above, Norilsk is changing it's production method to favour environment and Nickel production, with far less Pd as a result, from 2.2 M oz to 1 M Oz. South Africa and Russia has, what, 70-80% of world production of Pd currently? Further Russia may be out of their strategic stick pile of Pd...

Seems we are in a perfect storm/short squeeze condition for Pd. The sky may very well be the limit...

[Neuro]

Looks set to go hiGHER anD HIGHER!
http://www.kitco.com/LFgif/pd1825nyb.gif

[Neuro]

Ouch, hard drop the last few days, now trading at $759, if it doesn't hold here it could very well drop down to high 500's in short order, especially if it breaks 700...

[osoab]

Ouch, hard drop the last few days, now trading at $759, if it doesn't hold here it could very well drop down to high 500's in short order, especially if it breaks 700...

Palladium sale!

[Plastic]

Holy crap!! Up 30.00 so far today!

[platinumdude]

Up another $15 to $841. Palladium doesn't care about any debt deals.

[Neuro]

What a difference a couple of months can do! Right now Pd is in the 580's, down some $25 today. If they manage to inflate the world economy again, it could be a good play.
Just eyeballing the 5-year chart Pd should have a pretty strong support in the high 500's. If it goes below 550-570 I wouldn't dare predicting where the bottom is, but it could very well turn here...

Trade gold for Palladium anyone?

[mamboni]

What a difference a couple of months can do! Right now Pd is in the 580's, down some $25 today. If they manage to inflate the world economy again, it could be a good play.
Just eyeballing the 5-year chart Pd should have a pretty strong support in the high 500's. If it goes below 550-570 I wouldn't dare predicting where the bottom is, but it could very well turn here...

Trade gold for Palladium anyone?

Wait for it...wait for it...

Palladium and Platinum are looking awefully cheap. But this EURO fiasco could cause a short term dollar spike and further weakness in the metals, especially the aforementioned. Long term Paladiumand Platinum are a strong buy - they are definitely going much higher in the future. I'm watching them and ready to pounch.

[ximmy]

How do I get some palladium... is it radioactive?

[palani]

Trade gold for Palladium anyone?
You'd have to find someone interesting in selling at this price.

http://www.bulliondirect.com/nucleo/lp/Palladium_Bullion_999+_Pure_CMX_(1.00_oz).html

[JohnQPublic]

Apmex is pretty low on small Pd. 6 @ 1ozt (generic), 9 @ 1/2ozt.

They do have 13 @ 10 ozt., and 2 @ 1kg.

As for Pt, they are promising 198 @ 1ozt (Scotia) for Oct. 14th
They have on Pt Koala for $299.99! Grab it (?). A bit pricey.

They have 7 @ 1/10th ozt Isle of Man Pt coins for $226.

Ebay- no Pd (other than some "grain" bars, and one 1 ozt Pamp for $800). Little bit of Pt.

[Joe King]

How do I get some palladium... is it radioactive?
Yes, yes it is.

So if you buy any, make sure to wear your lead gloves when handling it, ok?

[JohnQPublic]

I was just on ebay, typed "palladium bullion" (auctions only, time ending soonest). The only thing available were some one grain "coins". Very strange. There are usualy several Pamp suisse and other palladium bullion. SIlver was pretty slim, too ( a lot of silver, but mainly one ozt.. No 10 ozt. coming through for 10 hours).

[Neuro]

Big gain today in Pd, up $29 to $641, I am not sure but I think the bottom is in, the good thing is that PGM's tend to hit its peak and bottoms earlier and recover quicker than Silver and Gold, we still may have another good buying opportunity in Silver, in the mid-higher 20's...

[Neuro]

Starts to look good again, needs to get over the downward trendline at the high 700's before going to da moon, though...

[Neuro]

The last peak in Pd doesn't look as "perky" as previous peaks, does anyone know if this has any significance. Obviously it is not a blow off top, which is good, but could it signal that Pd is going to consolidate for some time?
Yes, it has consolidated for 'some' time now (1.5 years), but it looks like it is about to break out from it's long downward penchant formation. Does anyone still has Pd? I still have my 1.5 oz of Pd. Maybe I'll get buried with it... ;D

[PatColo]

^ I gots Pd. Spot was 220 when I bought in '04, been a wild ride, but it's unfortunately the lowest performer of the Au Ag & Pd I bought all same time in '04. Up 2.6% today, not sure what if any news is driving this, metals complex is otherwise not moving much.






Did gold really go down 2.90?
(http://www.kitco.com/kitco-gold-index.html?utm_source=kitco&utm_medium=banner&utm_content=20110215_KGX_tb1&utm_campaign=KGX)
http://www.kitco.com/market/images/button2_kgx.png (http://www.kitco.com/kitco-gold-index.html?utm_source=kitco&utm_medium=banner&utm_content=20110215_KGX_tb1&utm_campaign=KGX)






New York Spot Price


http://www.kitco.com/images/lightgreen.gif (http://www.kitco.com/market/lights.html)




MARKET IS OPEN
(Will close in 5 hrs. 57 mins.)





Metals

Date

Time
(EST)

Bid

Ask

Change

Low

High



http://www.kitco.com/market/images/buy.png (https://online.kitco.com/bullion/completelist_USD.html#gold?utm_source=kitco&utm_medium=button&utm_content=20110215_gold_buy1&utm_campaign=gold)
http://www.kitco.com/images/graph_down.gif (http://www.kitco.com/charts/livegoldnewyork.html)
GOLD (http://www.kitco.com/charts/livegoldnewyork.html)

09/10/2012

11:18

1732.40

1733.40

-2.90

-0.17%

1726.20

1734.40



http://www.kitco.com/market/images/buy.png (https://online.kitco.com/bullion/completelist_USD.html#silver?utm_source=kitco&utm_medium=button&utm_content=20110215_silver_buy1&utm_campaign=silver)
http://www.kitco.com/images/graph_down.gif (http://www.kitco.com/charts/livesilver.html#ny)
SILVER (http://www.kitco.com/charts/livesilver.html#ny)

09/10/2012

11:18

33.75

33.85

+0.07

+0.21%

33.29

33.94



http://www.kitco.com/market/images/buy.png (https://online.kitco.com/bullion/completelist_USD.html#platinum?utm_source=kitco&utm_medium=button&utm_content=20110215_platinum_buy1&utm_campaign=platinum)
http://www.kitco.com/images/graph_down.gif (http://www.kitco.com/charts/liveplatinum.html)
PLATINUM (http://www.kitco.com/charts/liveplatinum.html)

09/10/2012

11:18

1601.00

1609.00

+13.00

+0.82%

1587.00

1614.00



http://www.kitco.com/market/images/buy.png (https://online.kitco.com/bullion/completelist_USD.html#palladium?utm_source=kitco&utm_medium=button&utm_content=20110215_palladium_buy1&utm_campaign=palladium)
http://www.kitco.com/images/graph_down.gif (http://www.kitco.com/charts/livepalladium.html)
PALLADIUM (http://www.kitco.com/charts/livepalladium.html)

09/10/2012

11:18

669.00

675.00

+17.00

+2.61%

655.00

677.00

[Neuro]

^ I gots Pd. Spot was 220 when I bought in '04, been a wild ride, but it's unfortunately the lowest performer of the Au Ag & Pd I bought all same time in '04. Up 2.6% today, not sure what if any news is driving this, metals complex is otherwise not moving much.

Yay, spot was $220 when I loaded up the truck in April 2009. So you lost 5 years there ;)... Anyway I still think Pd has the potential to be your biggest gainer among your 2004 purchases. I think the sentiments in the Palladium crowd must have been very low in the last 6 months. But it is an essential metal for many industrial processes, and the annual consumption /production is exceedingly small, so it is entirely possible that Pd can reach $10.000/oz shortly...

[Spectrism]

A few years ago I only bought 2 1-ounce bars of palladium.... about $240 each. Sure wish I could have bought a few more.

[chad]

i too bought around $220 or so. seems like it should be higher than it is.

[Neuro]

i too bought around $220 or so. seems like it should be higher than it is.
It is on its way! now up to $700! South African mine strikes and prospect of money printing to infinity is rocket fuel for Pd... Could very soon, within even a few days be at $800...

[JohnQPublic]

It is on its way! now up to $700! South African mine strikes and prospect of money printing to infinity is rocket fuel for Pd... Could very soon, within even a few days be at $800...

A Pd to silver exchange opportunity is brewing. When the ratio exceeds 38.5, I might be tempted!

[Neuro]

It is on its way! now up to $700! South African mine strikes and prospect of money printing to infinity is rocket fuel for Pd... Could very soon, within even a few days be at $800...
Yeah right you MORON!

$623 today! ;)

[k-os]

Yeah right you MORON!

$623 today! ;)


Cute!

[mamboni]

Yeah right you MORON!

$623 today! ;)

Outrageous! Neuro, you have personally attacked another member! Coincidentally, his name is identical to yours! But....nevertheless, you broke a forum rule and must be banned!!!!!o)(~

[EE_]

Attacking yourself here should not be tolerated!
BAN THEM BOTH!

http://sivers.org/images/fightclub.gif

[mamboni]

Attacking yourself here should not be tolerated!
BAN THEM BOTH!

http://sivers.org/images/fightclub.gif

Yeah! He's a witch!!!! Burn him!!! Witch! Witch!

[Neuro]

Banned twice, knocked myself out, burned at the stake, and lost my children's college education fund. An average day as a Palladium investor! But K-os thinks I am cute! ^^^

[Dogman]

Banned twice, knocked myself out, burned at the stake, and lost my children's college education fund. An average day as a Palladium investor! But K-os thinks I am cute! ^^^ 3759

[k-os]

Banned twice, knocked myself out, burned at the stake, and lost my children's college education fund. An average day as a Palladium investor! But K-os thinks I am cute! ^^^

Someone on here recently alluded to the possibility that I am bad luck. So, this sounds about right. Sorry!

[Neuro]

Someone on here recently alluded to the possibility that I am bad luck. So, this sounds about right. Sorry!
Aha, that's why! I thought it was my own fault, now I see more clearly!...



Witch! Burn her! Witch! witch! She's a Witch! Burn, burn, burn!

[EE_]

Aha, that's why! I thought it was my own fault, now I see more clearly!...



Witch! Burn her! Witch! witch! She's a Witch! Burn, burn, burn!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCYGLdHi6tM

[JohnQPublic]

Palladium appears to be kicking butt again.

Calling A North American Palladium Bottom (http://seekingalpha.com/article/1030661-calling-a-north-american-palladium-bottom)
"...Johnson Matthey recently published a report calling for a huge deficit of palladium (915,000 ounces) due to lower supplies, higher gross demand and less recycling: palladium supplies are predicted to decline to a 9-year low of 6.57 million ounces, because of lower South-African output due to the strikes, which have hurt South-African production of platinum and palladium. Another factor contributing to lower supplies comes from a forecast drop of sales of Russian state stocks by over 0.5 million ounces compared with last year, to 250,000 ounces.
Recycling is expected to be constrained by subdued PGM (Platinum Group Metals) prices.

To read the full report, click here (http://www.platinum.matthey.com/media-room/news-room/platinum-2012-interim-review/801486773.html).


In a recent report (http://stillwatermining.com/market/fundamentals-2012.html), Stillwater Mining (SWC (http://seekingalpha.com/symbol/swc)) wrote: "Palladium is facing a substantial supply deficit going forward that will likely be met by a combination of price-driven demand destruction and shifting back to platinum or using rhodium." ..."

[JohnQPublic]

LARGE PALLADIUM MARKET DEFICIT FORECAST FOR 2012 (http://www.platinum.matthey.com/media-room/news-room/platinum-2012-interim-review/801486773.html)

AUTOCATALYST DEMAND FOR PALLADIUM TO REACH RECORD LEVEL

The balance of the palladium market is forecast to swing by over 2 million ounces this year from surplus to deficit, due to lower supplies, higher gross demand and less recycling. Supplies will contract mainly because of lower sales of Russian state stocks, while recycling will be constrained by subdued pgm prices. Gross palladium demand is predicted to rise to 9.73 million ounces, driven by a return to positive net physical investment and higher autocatalyst purchasing, moving the palladium market into a deficit of 915,000 oz.

Supplies of palladium are predicted to decline to a nine-year low of 6.57 million ounces. Palladium supplies from South Africa are forecast to fall by 6% this year, to 2.40 million ounces, in line with lower underlying platinum output. Newly refined palladium supplies from Russia are expected to decrease due to a change in the ore mix and falling average grades. Sales of Russian state stocks are forecast to drop by over half a million ounces compared with last year, to 250,000 oz.

Purchasing of palladium by the autocatalyst sector is expected to rise by 7% to a new high of 6.48 million ounces. Demand for palladium is forecast to benefit from growth in global vehicle production, with the strongest performance in the principally gasoline markets of Japan and the USA, as well as continuing substitution of platinum in both light and heavy duty diesel aftertreatment formulations.

Industrial demand for palladium is forecast to soften by 3% to 2.41 million ounces. In electrical applications, a long-term trend towards using cheaper base metal alternatives to palladium in all but niche and high-end applications continues to drive demand lower. However, a wave of chemical plant construction in China will stimulate purchasing of palladium for new catalyst charges.

This year is set to mark the return to positive physical palladium investment demand, in contrast with the net liquidation seen in 2011. For the year as a whole, a change in investor sentiment towards palladium ETFs is expected to result in 385,000 oz of net new physical investment demand, a swing of 950,000 oz compared with last year.

Gross demand for palladium in jewellery is predicted to dampen by 11% to 450,000 oz. Purchasing of palladium by the Chinese jewellery sector is expected to decline once again as the metal continues to suffer from a lack of positioning and effective marketing, as well as competition from low-fineness gold alloys.

Supplies of palladium are expected to fall in 2013 as a result of lower output from Russia and the diminishing likelihood of a significant increase in output from South Africa. Another year of solid autocatalyst and industrial demand is forecast, together with higher returns of palladium from end-of-life vehicle recycling.

[JohnQPublic]

Linked above, but a good read:
Especially the bit about going from a 2:1 (Pd:Pt) exchange technology to a 1:1 exchange, making Pd much more valuable. I.e., with today's technology, 1 gram of Pd can replace 1g of Pt in a catalytic converter (gasoline and some light diesel, see text of article).

Palladium Fundamentals

Dominates Catalytic Converters – Confirming Positive Outlook

http://www.corporate-ir.net/media_files/priv/CCBN/event_help/icons/md_pdf.gif Palladium Fundamentals (http://www.corporatereport.com/stillwater/Palladiam_Fundamentals_9-26-2012.pdf)
September 2012

"...The price-driven technological shift from "two-for-one" to a "one-for-one" substitution of palladium for platinum cemented the market going forward for palladium in gasoline converters. Gasoline catalytic converter technology worldwide is now almost exclusively palladium based, augmented with small amounts of platinum and rhodium where necessary..."

"...The average content of a catalytic converter in the three big car producing areas of the world is roughly as follows: 4 grams in North America; 6 grams in Europe, where over 55% of the cars produced are diesel; and 2 grams in China, where regulatory requirements are not yet as tight and cars on average are smaller. At present, the 4 gram average in North America is made up of about 3½ grams palladium (substantially up recently from 3 grams), no platinum (down recently from ½ gram) and ½ gram rhodium; the 6 gram average in Europe is split 50/50 between platinum and palladium with ½ gram of rhodium somehow in the mix (a modest recent change from 3 grams platinum, 2½ grams palladium and ½ gram rhodium); and the 2 gram average in China is mostly palladium..."

[I used to feel bad I got some Pd, but no Pt, now I am not sure!]

"...In 2011, about 67% of the palladium supplied to the market was used for catalytic converters – with the supply including about 775,000 ounces from the Russian state palladium inventory. If sales from the Russian inventory are excluded, then approximately 73% of the worldwide primary palladium supply went to catalytic converters."

If true, considering the 1:1 technology, Pd$ ---> 73% of Pt price ($1174 today)!

[Neuro]

I expect $200 Pd, within this year! (That's the best I can do according to my prediction record...)

[chad]

I expect $200 Pd, within this year! (That's the best I can do according to my prediction record...)

awesome, i bought in at around there last time!

[Neuro]

awesome, i bought in at around there last time!
Yes so did I, this time I am merely trying to jinx Pd, relative to my previous jinxed predictions... I really can't say anymore at this stage, possibly I have already counter jinxed it...

[JohnQPublic]

After a rest spell, palladium jumps into the lead again. We will probably get to $800 Pd before we get $1800 gold or $40 silver.

[osoab]

So is Palladium riding the Platinum high, or is this also due to mines being shutting down?

Up to about 730 right now for the intraday high.

[Neuro]

So is Palladium riding the Platinum high, or is this also due to mines being shutting down?

Up to about 730 right now for the intraday high.
This is only temporary! It can drop a few hundred any minute now!

[Neuro]

After a rest spell, palladium jumps into the lead again. We will probably get to $800 Pd before we get $1800 gold or $40 silver.
This seems likely now, from my six years of following the market, I have noticed that the platinum group metals seems to lead PM's in general about 6 months before gold and silver, so it is very PM positive that palladium and platinum are charging ahead now, gold and silver will be a bit behind in this phase, but I feel quite confident that the lows are in for all PM's now. Palladium should IMO get above $1000, maybe a lot more, in this run-up. Right now $738...

[chad]

i have noticed the same thing neuo. when pd and pt pop, gold an silver seem to follow along. i would love to see 1,000 pd, i'd be tempted to sell at that point.

[mamboni]

North Korean Car Maker Develops Palladium-free Catalytic Converter

Jan 24, 2013 6:13 PM KST
Reuters News Service, International

North Korean car maker Iso Ronery C.P. has developed a catalytic converter that uses no palladium. Presently, 70% of palladium industrial demand goes into the fabrication of catalytic converters. The new catalytic converter uses an alloy of silver and lathanum to achieve similar efficiency of pollutant reduction at a fraction of the cost of palladium. CEO of Iso Ronery, Dong Hong Lo, announced the news at recent trade show in the North Korean city of................

more at link:

[JohnQPublic]

North Korean Car Maker Develops Palladium-free Catalytic Converter

Jan 24, 2013 6:13 PM KST
Reuters News Service, International

North Korean car maker Iso Ronery C.P. has developed a catalytic converter that uses no palladium. Presently, 70% of palladium industrial demand goes into the fabrication of catalytic converters. The new catalytic converter uses an alloy of silver and lathanum to achieve similar efficiency of pollutant reduction at a fraction of the cost of palladium. CEO of Iso Ronery, Dong Hong Lo, announced the news at recent trade show in the North Korean city of................



more at link:

You are such a tease...

[PatColo]

The Daily Reckoning Presents


Platinum’s Neglected Cousin
By Byron King








It’s a whitish, ductile metal. It is No. 46 on the Periodic Table of Elements...and it is a “Buy.” I don’t just mean that it is a solid investment opportunity in which you can buy shares. I’m talking about an opportunity so big, you could literally pull a truck up to the front door — but make sure it’s an armored truck, as I’ll explain below — and drive home with the stuff.

The metal’s name is palladium, and it is used mainly in automobile and truck catalytic converters, particularly for low-temperature exhaust that emits from diesel engines. For high-temperature exhaust from gasoline-burners, you need platinum. But for diesel engines, palladium does the job.

As the chart below illustrates, annual auto-catalyst demand is currently soaking up a whopping 81% of the world’s annual mined supply of palladium — up from about 60% just a few years ago. This chart also illustrates that the palladium price trend tracks very closely with the auto-catalyst demand trend. Back in 2000, for example, when auto-catalyst demand was consuming more than 100% of the mined supply (above-ground stockpiles plugged the supply gap), the palladium priced soared to more than $1,000 an ounce!



http://dailyreckoning.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/5/files/2013/01/DRUS01-24-13.png



Looking ahead, the auto sector is recovering in Europe, North America and across the developing world. Automakers have scheduled their production runs, and what’s the fastest-growing kind of vehicle? Diesel-powered. And that means rising palladium demand. Meanwhile, mine output of palladium is stagnant, while global stocks — primarily from Russia — are as tight as banjo strings.

[PatColo]

today was a breakout to about 16 month high, or breakout was last week was but today extended the rally, here's weekly chart
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/PA_/W

http://futures.tradingcharts.com/charts/PA_W.GIF

[JohnQPublic]

The Daily Reckoning Presents


Platinum’s Neglected Cousin
By Byron King








It’s a whitish, ductile metal. It is No. 46 on the Periodic Table of Elements...and it is a “Buy.” I don’t just mean that it is a solid investment opportunity in which you can buy shares. I’m talking about an opportunity so big, you could literally pull a truck up to the front door — but make sure it’s an armored truck, as I’ll explain below — and drive home with the stuff.

The metal’s name is palladium, and it is used mainly in automobile and truck catalytic converters, particularly for low-temperature exhaust that emits from diesel engines. For high-temperature exhaust from gasoline-burners, you need platinum. But for diesel engines, palladium does the job.

As the chart below illustrates, annual auto-catalyst demand is currently soaking up a whopping 81% of the world’s annual mined supply of palladium — up from about 60% just a few years ago. This chart also illustrates that the palladium price trend tracks very closely with the auto-catalyst demand trend. Back in 2000, for example, when auto-catalyst demand was consuming more than 100% of the mined supply (above-ground stockpiles plugged the supply gap), the palladium priced soared to more than $1,000 an ounce!



http://dailyreckoning.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/5/files/2013/01/DRUS01-24-13.png



Looking ahead, the auto sector is recovering in Europe, North America and across the developing world. Automakers have scheduled their production runs, and what’s the fastest-growing kind of vehicle? Diesel-powered. And that means rising palladium demand. Meanwhile, mine output of palladium is stagnant, while global stocks — primarily from Russia — are as tight as banjo strings.




The best part is that the automakers all retooled to Pd from PT, and they cannot switch back quickly, and even if they do, Pt is still more expensive (so they won't).

[JohnQPublic]

After a rest spell, palladium jumps into the lead again. We will probably get to $800 Pd before we get $1800 gold or $40 silver.

Wow! Pd hit $790 peak today. Getting close.

[Neuro]

http://www.kitco.com/LFgif/pd1825nyb.gif

Good to have a chart to look at. Getting ready to end its more than 2 years of consolidation now?

[JohnQPublic]

http://www.kitco.com/LFgif/pd1825nyb.gif

Good to have a chart to look at. Getting ready to end its more than 2 years of consolidation now?

Not sure if that holds. I think this is more of a special cause issue- i.e., mines shut down in SA + Russia apparently low on stock. In any case I think it is Pd positive.

[JohnQPublic]

ADD China's comments on emmissions.:

Palladium Bucks Precious Metal Trend - Hits 18-Month High (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-08/palladium-bucks-precious-metal-trend-hits-18-month-high)
"...While gold, silver, and platinum remain held in ranges, it appears China's NDRC comments on carbon emissions and improved energy efficiency have been taken seriously enough (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-01-24/visualizing-platinum-palladiums-place-world) to drive Palladium prices to 18 month highs (and notably divergent from the rest of the PM group). Palladium is now up more than twice the 215% gain in gold since Lehman and leads the PMs..."

[Neuro]

ADD China's comments on emmissions.:

Palladium Bucks Precious Metal Trend - Hits 18-Month High (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-08/palladium-bucks-precious-metal-trend-hits-18-month-high)


"...While gold, silver, and platinum remain held in ranges, it appears China's NDRC comments on carbon emissions and improved energy efficiency have been taken seriously enough (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-01-24/visualizing-platinum-palladiums-place-world) to drive Palladium prices to 18 month highs (and notably divergent from the rest of the PM group). Palladium is now up more than twice the 215% gain in gold since Lehman and leads the PMs..."
The implication is I guess that China will start manufacture more efficient Diesel engine powered vehicles instead of gas engines?

[JohnQPublic]

The implication is I guess that China will start manufacture more efficient Diesel engine powered vehicles instead of gas engines?

The implication I got was that people took seriously China's desire to enforce tougher emissions laws; this requiring more PGMs.

"...in 2010, China adopted the Euro IV emission standard, which is expected to materially increase the PGM loadings in Chinese-produced vehicles..."

[JohnQPublic]

Why Rick Rule Bought $280M Of Platinum And Palladium (http://seekingalpha.com/article/1316991-why-rick-rule-bought-280m-of-platinum-and-palladium)

"...RR: I expect a lot of volatility, mostly to the upside. The reason for this is simple: the industry does not earn its cost of capital. Look at South Africa, where the industry itself estimates it is $6 or $8 billion [$8B] behind in sustaining capital investments. As a result, the industry has not made the investments necessary to reach parts of the ore body that have not yet been accessed. This has manifested itself three ways. One, production cost goes up as a consequence of infrastructure-bound mines. Two, production declines. Finally, mine safety standards fall, which has manifested in increasing worker mortality in South Africa.

The South African platinum mining business is labor-intensive, not capital-intensive. And the working conditions and the pay workers receive are deplorable. Workers' wages have to go up, but cannot because the industry does not earn its cost of capital. Same thing for sustaining capital investments - there is no money. Finally, there is widespread political and social acceptance that the government's take by way of taxes, royalties and rents, has to go up.

If you take those three factors - deferred sustaining capital investments, increased worker compensation, and increased social take - the industry finds itself between a rock and a hard place..."

"...We do not have enough platinum to meet current Western demands, and demand will grow. Unless the Western economies drive off a cliff, we are due for a big rebound in automobile sales, which have been stalled since 2008. And when automobile demand increases, so does demand for catalytic converters.

Second, the Western world is clamoring for stricter emission standards for autos, refineries and chemical plants, all of which use platinum and palladium. Remember, it takes only $200 worth of platinum and palladium to give us the air quality we enjoy now in the Western world. But the real growth in the automobile market is in the frontier and emerging markets, in particular India and China.


Gasoline engines in China currently employ catalytic technology that uses less than 10% of the platinum and palladium loadings that Western vehicles do. As a partial consequence of that, air quality conditions in urban parts of China are deplorable. The Chinese government estimates that 500,000 Chinese die each year of cardiopulmonary illness as a consequence of very poor air quality standards. The Chinese government has proposed air quality standards over five years that would quintuple the loadings of platinum and palladium in gasoline engines in China.


The Chinese government has also asked the China National Offshore Oil Corp. to begin selling diesel at Western quality with regard to sulfur loadings that would permit the introduction of catalytic converters on diesel engines in China. These two things would represent an absolute sea change in platinum demand in a market that's already undersupplied..."

"...TMR: Technology and innovation seem to balance out when you have a sharp gap between supply and demand. Could technology develop an alternative to the traditional catalytic converter that does not rely on PGMs?

RR: I welcome that kind of development, but right now, platinum and palladium are so cheap relative to the effective job they do that there is no incentive for new technology. Over time, the markets will work in the platinum and palladium sector. The price will be high enough and people will be scared enough that we will find more of the metals. The problems in Russia, South Africa and Zimbabwe will sort themselves out over the next 10 or 15 years.
This thesis plays out in a 1-5-year timeframe, and I do not see anything that would derail it, with the exception of a 2008-style liquidity event that destroys Western demand..."

[JohnQPublic]

3/26/2013 @ 2:05PM |302 views FOCUS: Platinum, Palladium Show Divergence; Reflects Fundamentals (http://www.forbes.com/sites/kitconews/2013/03/26/focus-platinum-palladium-show-divergence-reflects-fundamentals/)
"...Platinum and palladium prices are off their 2013 highs, as worries about the health of the eurozone have weighed on prices, but whereas platinum prices have seen losses nearing double-digit levels, palladium is holding not from its yearly top..."

"...Platinum, meanwhile, is suffering from weaker auto demand in Europe, Steel said. Auto sales in Europe have slumped because of the recession there and it’s hitting platinum because of the metal’s use in diesel engines for pollution control. In January, new car registrations in Europe fell by 8.7% year-over-year to 885,159 units, a historical low since the data started being collected in 1990.


Palladium, on the other hand, is used more in gasoline-powered engines that are popular in North America and China, and that is another factor underpinning palladium, Steel said.


“Unless there’s a real slowdown in China, it shouldn’t affect palladium and there’s no sign of (a slowdown),” Steel said.


Platinum’s best hope to see prices rise is the potential of a slowdown in mining that come as a result of labor strikes in South Africa, Steel said, although there are so far few signs of that happening. These strikes affect platinum more than palladium, he added..."

"...“The metal [Pd] most susceptible to further liquidation remains palladium, given that net non-commercial length as a percentage of open interest is very high at 71%. This is less the case with platinum, where net length as a percentage of open interest stands at 53%, although we cannot exclude further slippage,” she said..."

[Neuro]

Pd has held up remarkably well in the last month of PM onslaught. $739 right now!

[JohnQPublic]

I was going to comment. Silver and gold are getting pushed down, but Pd is holding well (Pt is doing ok, also). A lot of people believe the economy is improving, apparently (and that there is excess silver).

[JohnQPublic]

Pd still the leader of the pack. This has been consistent through drops, rises, etc. recently.

[chad]

it's from comets. that's why i can never sell it. how cool is it to have pieces of comets laying on your desk?

[Neuro]

it's from comets. that's why i can never sell it. how cool is it to have pieces of comets laying on your desk?
The center of earth has a fair bit of Platinum group metals allegedly, but it will never reach the crust... I think the source of most Pd on earths surface is from the smashed up planet between Mars and Jupiter.

[gunDriller]

it's from comets. that's why i can never sell it. how cool is it to have pieces of comets laying on your desk?

it's better than getting hit by a comet !

[JohnQPublic]

Shine returns to platinum and palladium (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/shine-returns-to-platinum-and-palladium-2013-06-03)

Commentary: You don’t need gold and silver to make money


"...These are our tentative rankings for the next cycle:



Palladium
Major gold miners
Platinum
Gold
Major silver miners
Silver
Junior miners

In other words, palladium may turn out to be the best performer and platinum may turn out to be the third best performer..."

[gunDriller]

the problem with Platinum & Palladium are, you are at the mercy of the market-makers (coin dealers) who might buy from you.

a lot of local coin dealers just don't buy Platinum & Palladium.


i think it's Very important for your real money to be of use in the event of a US mail shut-down.

as the anthrax attacks after 9-11 demonstrated, the US postal system makes it very easy for a shit-stirrer to fvck with the US postal system.


if you have $$ in Platinum & Palladium, and the US postal system shuts down for 3 months because of another terrorist attack, where does that leave you ?

if you choose Platinum & Palladium as personal stores of value, i think you need to pay even more attention to the "Prepper's Commandment" about having 6 months (or whatever it is) of cash on hand.

just in case you are cut off from your market for a period of time during a phase of TSHTF when US mail stops operating.


the US postal service depends on volume, and they're already losing money. what would a 20% or 50% reduction in volume do ? what if anonymous mailing became un-available for a while ?


i don't know all the details; we're talking about the future, and about possibilities, possibly remote.

but i think a prepper's precious metal 'plan' needs to take a cut-off in US mail access, into account.

[JohnQPublic]

the problem with Platinum & Palladium are, you are at the mercy of the market-makers (coin dealers) who might buy from you.

a lot of local coin dealers just don't buy Platinum & Palladium.


i think it's Very important for your real money to be of use in the event of a US mail shut-down.

as the anthrax attacks after 9-11 demonstrated, the US postal system makes it very easy for a shit-stirrer to fvck with the US postal system.


if you have $$ in Platinum & Palladium, and the US postal system shuts down for 3 months because of another terrorist attack, where does that leave you ?

if you choose Platinum & Palladium as personal stores of value, i think you need to pay even more attention to the "Prepper's Commandment" about having 6 months (or whatever it is) of cash on hand.

just in case you are cut off from your market for a period of time during a phase of TSHTF when US mail stops operating.


the US postal service depends on volume, and they're already losing money. what would a 20% or 50% reduction in volume do ? what if anonymous mailing became un-available for a while ?


i don't know all the details; we're talking about the future, and about possibilities, possibly remote.

but i think a prepper's precious metal 'plan' needs to take a cut-off in US mail access, into account.

Pd/Pt should not be you main repository of value. Usually at coin shows you can sell Pd/Pt at spot. Local dealers sometimes don't want it.

[Neuro]

Yes Pd/Pt are worthless in SHTF scenario, but at this point it is a very interesting high inflation play...

[JohnQPublic]

I have not been paying attention, but Pt > Gold again. Not sure exactly when they crossed. Probably when gold dumped recently.

[gunDriller]

Yes Pd/Pt are worthless in SHTF scenario, but at this point it is a very interesting high inflation play...

i think it depends on location. if you live near APMex or some other dealer that buys Pt/Pd, it works better.

[Neuro]

i think it depends on location. if you live near APMex or some other dealer that buys Pt/Pd, it works better.
Really? No electricity, empty shelves, fiat worthless! No one would change a prolapsed cow cadaver vs a Pt/Pd coin, I think!

[Norweger]

Not much palladium to be found on ebay. Browsing ended auctions shows mostly novelty items, Russian ballerinas, some pamp bars, stillwater rounds and a couple of Maple Leafs.
Very low premium on many coins as well.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2011-1oz-Palladium-Angel-PF-69-Uncirculated-/151074529902

Palladium Isle of Man angel $770

[JohnQPublic]

Not much palladium to be found on ebay. Browsing ended auctions shows mostly novelty items, Russian ballerinas, some pamp bars, stillwater rounds and a couple of Maple Leafs.
Very low premium on many coins as well.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2011-1oz-Palladium-Angel-PF-69-Uncirculated-/151074529902

Palladium Isle of Man angel $770

The Pd/Silver ratio is getting pretty high. It is tempting to do a trade (Pd---> silver) right now.

[gunDriller]

The Pd/Silver ratio is getting pretty high. It is tempting to do a trade (Pd---> silver) right now.

can you actually do it as a trade (Palladium for Silver), or do you have to sell the Palladium & buy the Silver, possibly at another dealer ?

[Norweger]

The Pd/Silver ratio is getting pretty high. It is tempting to do a trade (Pd---> silver) right now.

But silver is so boring.

[gunDriller]

But silver is so boring.

The new APMex silver round is boring.

someone actually won a contest for designing this thing.

http://www.images-apmex.com/handlers/ThumbJpeg.ashx?VFilePath=~/Resources/Catalog%20Images/Products/73756_Obv.jpg&width=600&height=600

[Neuro]

The new APMex silver round is boring.

someone actually won a contest for designing this thing.

http://www.images-apmex.com/handlers/ThumbJpeg.ashx?VFilePath=~/Resources/Catalog%20Images/Products/73756_Obv.jpg&width=600&height=600
It shows 48 stars... Does that mean Alaska and Hawaii will be saved?

[Neuro]

The Pd/Silver ratio is getting pretty high. It is tempting to do a trade (Pd---> silver) right now.
It's at 38 to 1 right now. It wasn't too long ago that gold was trading lower than that in relation to silver! Probably is a good time to trade to silver now, but with only 1.5 ounces of Pd, I might as well hang on for the ridiculous. It has held up remarkably well though in the last months of PM slap down!

[JohnQPublic]

It's at 38 to 1 right now. It wasn't too long ago that gold was trading lower than that in relation to silver! Probably is a good time to trade to silver now, but with only 1.5 ounces of Pd, I might as well hang on for the ridiculous. It has held up remarkably well though in the last months of PM slap down!

Agreed. I don't have that much Pd either. But even 10-15 oz. of Pd can lead to a monster box. That becomes tempting. On one hand if you had to travel fast, the monster box would be cumbersome to move. On the other if the running was due to SHTF, the Pd would probably not be worth that much anyway. Silver and gold would likely revert to the desired metals.

[Neuro]

http://www.kitco.com/LFgif/pd1825nyb.gif

Good to have a chart to look at. Getting ready to end its more than 2 years of consolidation now?
Now we may be getting close to a breakout after 3 years of consolidation? Damn this is like watching paint dry with Chinese water torture added as a bonus!
I suppose from a technical analysis standpoint a flag of this size would be ultramegabullish!

[osoab]

The new APMex silver round is boring.

someone actually won a contest for designing this thing.

http://www.images-apmex.com/handlers/ThumbJpeg.ashx?VFilePath=~/Resources/Catalog%20Images/Products/73756_Obv.jpg&width=600&height=600


It shows 48 stars... Does that mean Alaska and Hawaii will be saved?


Didn't you mean 48 pentagrams?

[Neuro]

We are at breakout point now I think! $761.... About time!!!

[Neuro]

This thread needs a chart:

http://www.kitco.com/LFgif/pd1825nyb.gif


Yeehaw!

[Neuro]

I can't believe it is 5 years since I bought Pd!

[gunDriller]

I can't believe it is 5 years since I bought Pd!

How is the market when you try & sell one ?

[VX1]

Yeehaw!

This was the worst jinx... EVER!

6097

But hey, twice the price of Platinum... I'm rich!

[Neuro]

This was the worst jinx... EVER!

6097

But hey, twice the price of Platinum... I'm rich!
Gold you get paid a quarter an ounce to accept, but you still go after the Pd pumper! You Bastard! ;D

[Neuro]

How is the market when you try & sell one ?
Probably no-one close remembers that Pd even exists any longer...

[Neuro]

By J.C. Parets
Palladium isn't exactly the most popular commodity, or even the most popular metal. It's kind of just there, isn't it? Growing up in Miami, Florida, I had to learn the hard way that things are usually the most quiet right before the storm. It should come as no surprise that palladium has been one of the most quiet assets on earth. But I have a funny feeling that that’s all about to change. This week's breakout is one that we'll probably look back on later this year and point to it as the "aha” moment.
Enlarge Image


First, a little bit of background. If we're talking about metals, I think it's important to compare them to find out where the relative strength has been in this particular space. To the left is a two-year chart showing the performance of gold, silver, platinum, copper and palladium. With the rest of the metals getting clobbered, it's nice to see palladium behaving so well. This is the first thing that caught our attention coming into the year.
Enlarge Image


Next is the weekly chart of palladium which shows exactly why this was one of my favorite assets coming into the new year. The setup is beautiful. Since the huge rally from 2008, the price of the metal rallied over 430%. But since early 2011, prices have been digesting those gains, frustrating both the bulls and the bears and leaving people with nothing to talk about in this regard.
As a technician who focuses on market behavior, a breakout in price above this key resistance signals to me that the supply is drying up. With demand now exceeding this overhead supply, the buyers have regained control in the palladium space.
Enlarge Image


Now let’s look at a near-term chart of this supply being taken out. Isn't that nice?
In terms of a price target, we can take the size of this consolidation and add it to the breakout level. Let's call it 300 points from a breakout above 750. These are conservatives measured-move targets, but still takes us north of $1000. Percentage-wise, this is still a long way to go. But more importantly, let's remember that the secular trend here is up, and we're coming off a three-year consolidation. As they say, the bigger the base, the higher in space, and we can therefore go a lot higher than the initial 1050 target.
From a risk-management perspective, We just want to see this week's breakout hold. If prices start to fall back below the lows of the week, it would put palladium in danger of a false breakout, or at the very least a longer consolidation, so that 750 is one we want to watch.
This metal looks great, both on a relative and absolute basis. It is difficult for me to find a setup out there that I like more than this one. For someone who looks at thousands of charts, I am probably most impressed with palladium on multiple time frames.


























http://www.marketwatch.com/story/palladium-is-the-metal-to-own-2014-03-07
it's coming as I said!

[JohnQPublic]

Wow! $21 jump in a day. Pd moving to $800+.

[Neuro]

It is really taking off now! Up $25 today when the rest stood pretty much still $791!

[PatColo]

good stuff FO SHO!

http://www.kitco.com/LFgif/pd1825nyb.gif


Depending on where those peaks aroud March '13 were, today looks to have been a breakout of a cup/handle which began around Aug '11-- ~2.5 years ago. Kitco reports intraday high of $802 today.

Here's daily (note strong volume past 2 days) & weekly Pd bar graphs,
http://tfccharts.com/chart/PA_/
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/PA_/W

monthly only updates at the end of trading for a given month (as weekly updates end of Fri trading), so this is through end of Feb '14,
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/PA_/M

Pd's relative strength over the past ~2.5 years' PMs 'collapse' also makes it a standout. I would bet that those going long Pd here @ ~800 will be very happy 1-2 years out. Pd may have just signaled 'Groundhog's Day' for PMs, :D


Most Recent Headlines [ Complete Futures News (http://futures.tradingcharts.com/news/) ] Search News:

Stock to Watch: North American Palladium Up 12.5% (PAL) (http://futures.tradingcharts.com/news/futures/Stock_to_Watch__North_American_Palladium_Up_12_5__ _PAL__212304719.html) Mar 21st, 2014, 13:46 - PSM (Length: 1950)

American Graphite Technologies Inc. Announces Closing of $300,000 Brokered Private Placement (http://futures.tradingcharts.com/news/futures/American_Graphite_Technologies_Inc__Announces_Clos ing_of__300_000_Brokered_Private_Placement_2123006 96.html) Mar 21st, 2014, 11:04 - INW (Length: 3863)
North American Palladium Provides Update on Reserves and Resources and Life of Mine Plan for Lac des Iles (http://futures.tradingcharts.com/news/futures/North_American_Palladium_Provides_Update_on_Reserv es_and_Resources_and_Life_of_Mine_Plan_for_Lac_des _Iles_212293968.html) Mar 21st, 2014, 06:01 - INW (Length: 45039)
North American Palladium Provides Update on Reserves and Resources and Life of Mine Plan for Lac des Iles (http://futures.tradingcharts.com/news/futures/North_American_Palladium_Provides_Update_on_Reserv es_and_Resources_and_Life_of_Mine_Plan_for_Lac_des _Iles_212293906.html) Mar 21st, 2014, 06:00 - CCN (Length: 45122)
Balmoral Outlines Multiple Conductors, Resumes Drill Testing of Grasset Ni-Cu-PGE Discovery, Detour Gold Trend Project, Quebec (http://futures.tradingcharts.com/news/futures/Balmoral_Outlines_Multiple_Conductors__Resumes_Dri ll_Testing_of_Grasset_Ni_Cu_PGE_Discovery__Detour_ Gold_Trend_Project__Quebec_212212554.html) Mar 19th, 2014, 07:30 - INW (Length: 8637)
Balmoral Outlines Multiple Conductors, Resumes Drill Testing of Grasset Ni-Cu-PGE Discovery, Detour Gold Trend Project, Quebec (http://futures.tradingcharts.com/news/futures/Balmoral_Outlines_Multiple_Conductors__Resumes_Dri ll_Testing_of_Grasset_Ni_Cu_PGE_Discovery__Detour_ Gold_Trend_Project__Quebec_212212511.html) Mar 19th, 2014, 07:30 - CCN (Length: 8621)
Exploration Drill Hole Intersects 48.6 Metres of High-Grade Platinum-Group Metals at Ivanhoe Mines' Ga-Madiba Target (http://futures.tradingcharts.com/news/futures/Exploration_Drill_Hole_Intersects_48_6_Metres_of_H igh_Grade_Platinum_Group_Metals_at_Ivanhoe_Mines__ Ga_Madiba_Target_212203821.html) Mar 19th, 2014, 03:07 - INW (Length: 30891)
Exploration Drill Hole Intersects 48.6 Metres of High-Grade Platinum-Group Metals at Ivanhoe Mines' Ga-Madiba Target (http://futures.tradingcharts.com/news/futures/Exploration_Drill_Hole_Intersects_48_6_Metres_of_H igh_Grade_Platinum_Group_Metals_at_Ivanhoe_Mines__ Ga_Madiba_Target_212203809.html) Mar 19th, 2014, 03:06 - CCN (Length: 30953)
Uptrend Call Working As Stillwater Mining Stock Rises 26.2% (SWC) (http://futures.tradingcharts.com/news/futures/Uptrend_Call_Working_As_Stillwater_Mining_Stock_Ri ses_26_2___SWC__212137413.html) Mar 17th, 2014, 18:23 - PSM (Length: 1750)
MXT Global Adds USD/CNY and New Precious Metals to Product Offering (http://futures.tradingcharts.com/news/futures/MXT_Global_Adds_USD_CNY_and_New_Precious_Metals_to _Product_Offering_211975222.html) Mar 14th, 2014, 00:33 - CLM (Length: 2381)


[ More Palladium News (http://futures.tradingcharts.com/news/headlines/Palladium.html) ]

[PatColo]

Stillwater Mining same 2.5 year cup/handle breakout,
http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=SWC&insttype=Stock&freq=2&show=&time=12

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/kaavio.Webhost/charts/big.chart?nosettings=1&symb=SWC&uf=0&type=2&size=2&sid=13844&style=320&freq=2&entitlementtoken=0c33378313484ba9b46b8e24ded87dd6&time=12&rand=1766899108&compidx=&ma=0&maval=9&lf=1&lf2=0&lf3=0&height=335&width=579&mocktick=1

[PatColo]

Pd's relative strength over the past ~2.5 years' PMs 'collapse' also makes it a standout. I would bet that those going long Pd here @ ~800 will be very happy 1-2 years out. Pd may have just signaled 'Groundhog's Day' for PMs, :D




PALL ETFS Physical Palladium Shares (ETF) (http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=PALL&insttype=&freq=2&show=&time=20)

1 year (nice gap today :))
http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/kaavio.Webhost/charts/big.chart?nosettings=1&symb=PALL&uf=0&type=2&size=2&sid=4388201&style=320&freq=1&entitlementtoken=0c33378313484ba9b46b8e24ded87dd6&time=8&rand=767515092&compidx=&ma=0&maval=9&lf=1&lf2=0&lf3=0&height=335&width=579&mocktick=1


Since Jan '11 inception of PALL ETF,
http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/kaavio.Webhost/charts/big.chart?nosettings=1&symb=PALL&uf=0&type=2&size=2&sid=4388201&style=320&freq=2&entitlementtoken=0c33378313484ba9b46b8e24ded87dd6&time=20&rand=386785055&compidx=&ma=0&maval=9&lf=1&lf2=0&lf3=0&height=335&width=579&mocktick=1


Note, it's optionable, options chain (http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/options.asp?sid=4388201&symb=PALL)

[PatColo]

How about some PAL-North American Palladium Ltd. (NYSE MKT) (http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=PAL&insttype=&freq=1&show=&time=8), near ~14 year lows, crazy volume this year. Was near a buck in only January, today .49 cents.

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/kaavio.Webhost/charts/big.chart?nosettings=1&symb=PAL&uf=0&type=2&size=2&sid=11634&style=320&freq=1&entitlementtoken=0c33378313484ba9b46b8e24ded87dd6&time=8&rand=1277349081&compidx=&ma=0&maval=9&lf=1&lf2=0&lf3=0&height=335&width=579&mocktick=1

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/kaavio.Webhost/charts/big.chart?nosettings=1&symb=PAL&uf=0&type=2&size=2&sid=11634&style=320&freq=2&entitlementtoken=0c33378313484ba9b46b8e24ded87dd6&time=20&rand=1589311406&compidx=&ma=0&maval=9&lf=1&lf2=0&lf3=0&height=335&width=579&mocktick=1

[chad]

nice. i never evn look at the pd price anymore because it seems to never move. nice nice nice.

[Neuro]

Palladium is like the Rodney Dangerfield of precious metals. It never gets any respect.


If you ask someone about precious metals, in fact, just about everyone has heard of gold and silver. And occasionally platinum.


But palladium is one of those obscure precious metals that few people think about, or even know about.


Aside from actually having its own currency code (XPD), palladium is widely used in a variety of industrial applications, from spark plugs to catalytic converters to hydrocarbon ‘cracking’ to electronic components.


And here’s something most people don’t know: most of the world’s palladium is mined in Russia.


Since October 2013, Palladium prices have had a moderate boost—about a 5.3% increase in five months.


But given what’s happening in Russia, prices could soar. In fact, with trade sanctions looming, palladium could be taken off the world market indefinitely.


As the following chart shows, palladium has just broken out to a new 52-week high and is showing strong upward momentum.






Moreover, if you look at the 5-year chart, it could be about to break out to even longer-term highs.






I would consider buying palladium today, with a stop-loss order to protect your capital, at $759. That means if the market should prove this thesis wrong, the loss would be limited to just 4%.


I think the near-term upside target is the 5-year high of $855. That’s about an 8% gain from where we are today.


An upside of 8% versus a downside of 4% makes palladium a good risk/reward trade, given that the odds of the higher-price outcome are much better than the odds of the lower-price outcome.


But if tensions between the West and Russia escalate and trade sanctions stay in place for a prolonged period, $855 could be a very conservative upside target for palladium.


The last time Russia withheld palladium supplies from world markets back in 2000, the price rose 151% from a low of $433 in January 2000 to over $1,090 an ounce by January 2001.


In a scenario like that, palladium would be an incredibly profitable trade.


One easy way to take a position in palladium is via the ETFS Physical Palladium Shares (PALL on the New York Stock Exchange).


A new physical palladium ETF sponsored by Standard Bank has also just launched in South Africa.


And Absa Bank, which already sponsors the world’s largest platinum-backed ETF, has also announced it will launch a palladium ETF called NewPalladium. It will list on the Johannesburg Stock Exchange on March 27th.


These new palladium ETF launches, coming at a time of tightening supply due to Russian sanctions, could easily add more upward momentum to palladium prices, as they will withdraw supply from the market to physically back their shares.


However, if you want to avoid the possibility of any counterparty risk, there’s no substitute for owning the physical metal yourself.


The Royal Canadian Mint has in the past minted palladium versions of its very popular and instantly recognizable Maple Leaf bullion coins.


You can also buy 1 troy ounce palladium bars from most major dealers.


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-24/guess-which-precious-metal-controlled-russians
This may be one important reason behind Pd's breakout!

[PatColo]

http://www.kitco.com/images/live/plad.gif

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/kaavio.Webhost/charts/big.chart?nosettings=1&symb=PALL&uf=0&type=2&size=2&sid=4388201&style=320&freq=1&entitlementtoken=0c33378313484ba9b46b8e24ded87dd6&time=8&rand=127581634&compidx=&ma=0&maval=9&lf=1&lf2=0&lf3=0&height=335&width=579&mocktick=1

[Neuro]

Finally! It feels like it is over the event horizon now!

[JohnQPublic]

Pd:Ag = 40.2 wow.

[PatColo]

^ JQP what's that post mean? :|~

[osoab]

^ JQP what's that post mean? :|~

palladium/silver ratio

[PatColo]

oh yeah silly me, I still get Ag & Au mixed up! The 'g' in Ag always makes me think gold!

Pd:Ag is a ratio I've never followed, or seen anyone else follow! Is there a long term chart of the ratio available? any lessons in it?

copying from my post above, check the updated charts (which I can't paste here),

Here's daily & weekly Pd bar graphs,
http://tfccharts.com/chart/PA_/
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/PA_/W

monthly only updates at the end of trading for a given month (as weekly updates end of Fri trading), so this is through end of Mar '14,
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/PA_/M

[osoab]

http://www.infomine.com/ChartsAndData/GraphEngine.ashx?z=f&gf=137207..&dr=max

http://www.infomine.com/investment/price-ratios/platinum-palladium/all/

I would say look for sub 100:1 to trade silver for palladium.

[Neuro]

http://www.infomine.com/ChartsAndData/GraphEngine.ashx?z=f&gf=137207..&dr=max

http://www.infomine.com/investment/price-ratios/platinum-palladium/all/

I would say look for sub 100:1 to trade silver for palladium.
I think that is entirely possible, and silver would probably do well at the same time...

[PatColo]

bump, scroll up to post 195; the charts are all current as they load from the source when you load this GSUS page.

these TFC charts won't paste here, need to check them at their pages; the weekly chart is current as of Fri 4/25 close, new weekly closing high in nearly 3 years:


Here's daily & weekly Pd bar graphs,
http://tfccharts.com/chart/PA_/
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/PA_/W

monthly only updates at the end of trading for a given month (as weekly updates end of Fri trading), so this is through end of Mar '14,
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/PA_/M

[PatColo]

Bump for the nice little pullback in Pd < $800; see all the graphs in the replies above as they update when you open this page. I do believe it's leaving the station but just sputtering here on the launch pad a bit first. I was hoping for this coz I want to get some paper-Pd and hopefully enjoy the big rally over the next 6-12 months :)

[PatColo]

How about some PAL-North American Palladium Ltd. (NYSE MKT) (http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=PAL&insttype=&freq=1&show=&time=8), near ~14 year lows, crazy volume this year. Was near a buck in only January, today .49 cents.

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/kaavio.Webhost/charts/big.chart?nosettings=1&symb=PAL&uf=0&type=2&size=2&sid=11634&style=320&freq=1&entitlementtoken=0c33378313484ba9b46b8e24ded87dd6&time=8&rand=1277349081&compidx=&ma=0&maval=9&lf=1&lf2=0&lf3=0&height=335&width=579&mocktick=1

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/kaavio.Webhost/charts/big.chart?nosettings=1&symb=PAL&uf=0&type=2&size=2&sid=11634&style=320&freq=2&entitlementtoken=0c33378313484ba9b46b8e24ded87dd6&time=20&rand=1589311406&compidx=&ma=0&maval=9&lf=1&lf2=0&lf3=0&height=335&width=579&mocktick=1


Well it WAS 49 cents on Mar 22 when I posted the above. Now ~6 weeks later it's 24 cents! What a dog.... that's the problem with "bottom fishing"; you never know where the bottom will be! Better to buy the "leaders", the relative-performers rather than those which are acting sickly relative to their sector.

Presently, Pd is the relative performer in the PM sector. :)

[PatColo]

another bump for Pd's continuing to follow through this past week, on it's breakout of a couple months ago. Go to #189 (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?23245-Ohhhh-Ahhhh-Ohhhh%21-Palladium%21&p=698928&viewfull=1#post698928) and recheck all the charts. SWM is still looking like a pop out of it's range is imminent.

[Neuro]

Breakthrough in 5 year high getting close now!

http://www.kitco.com/LFgif/pd1825nyb.gif
$842 now...

[PatColo]

SWC saw a nice pop yesterday (28th), looks to be on its way,


Stillwater Mining same 2.5 year cup/handle breakout,
http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=SWC&insttype=Stock&freq=2&show=&time=12

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/kaavio.Webhost/charts/big.chart?nosettings=1&symb=SWC&uf=0&type=2&size=2&sid=13844&style=320&freq=2&entitlementtoken=0c33378313484ba9b46b8e24ded87dd6&time=12&rand=1766899108&compidx=&ma=0&maval=9&lf=1&lf2=0&lf3=0&height=335&width=579&mocktick=1

[osoab]

Up to 860 currently.

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/pictures/picture-5.jpg (http://www.zerohedge.com/users/tyler-durden)
Palladium Surges To 14 Year High; "Can Go To $1,000" On Miner Strikes (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-11/palladium-surges-14-year-high-can-go-1000-miner-strikes)Submitted by Tyler Durden (http://www.zerohedge.com/users/tyler-durden) on 06/11/2014 - 11:42

[Neuro]

Up to 860 currently.

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/pictures/picture-5.jpg (http://www.zerohedge.com/users/tyler-durden)
Palladium Surges To 14 Year High; "Can Go To $1,000" On Miner Strikes (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-11/palladium-surges-14-year-high-can-go-1000-miner-strikes)

Submitted by Tyler Durden (http://www.zerohedge.com/users/tyler-durden) on 06/11/2014 - 11:42
Personally I think $1,000 is way too low target for a 3.5 year pendant. +$2,000 more like it!

Edited to add 14 year cup and handle formation as well...

[Neuro]

Nice smack down today!
http://charts.kitco.com/KitcoCharts/index.jsp?Symbol=PALLADIUM&Currency=USD&multiCurrency=true&langId=EN&utm_source=kitco&utm_medium=banner&utm_content=20110407_iCharts_palladium_chart&utm_campaign=iCharts

$40 in half an hour!

[EE_]

Nice smack down today!
http://charts.kitco.com/KitcoCharts/index.jsp?Symbol=PALLADIUM&Currency=USD&multiCurrency=true&langId=EN&utm_source=kitco&utm_medium=banner&utm_content=20110407_iCharts_palladium_chart&utm_campaign=iCharts

$40 in half an hour!

It's called the Wall Street Pump-n-Dump

http://www.esquire.com/cm/esquire/images/JU/ESQ-lloyd-blankfein-beard-rub-2013-xl.jpg
http://blogs.reuters.com/john-lloyd/files/2013/03/RTR22I1V.jpg
http://wallstreet.wallstcollege.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Buffett_laughing_WallStCollege.com_-590x333.jpg?427c22
http://images.smh.com.au/2013/05/07/4253798/art-353-Soros-300x0.jpg

[Neuro]

It's called the Wall Street Pump-n-Dump

http://www.esquire.com/cm/esquire/images/JU/ESQ-lloyd-blankfein-beard-rub-2013-xl.jpg
http://blogs.reuters.com/john-lloyd/files/2013/03/RTR22I1V.jpg
http://wallstreet.wallstcollege.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Buffett_laughing_WallStCollege.com_-590x333.jpg?427c22
http://images.smh.com.au/2013/05/07/4253798/art-353-Soros-300x0.jpg
Nice selection of Wall Street crooks! And probably how they look if someone mentions Pd to them today!

[Neuro]

Definite breakout now. Next target all time high, which was in 2001 I believe at a bit more than a $1,000 an ounce...

[Neuro]

Definite breakout now. Next target all time high, which was in 2001 I believe at a bit more than a $1,000 an ounce...
Correction $1,100+
http://www.kitco.com/LFgif/pd92-pres.gif
Nice cup and handle!

[EE_]

It's starting to look like palladium is going to pass gold.
Maybe pd will become the new store of wealth (ie money) and gold will replace it as just an industrial metal?

[PatColo]

Ohhhh Ahhhh Ohhhh! :D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY5pmzmiDO8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY5pmzmiDO8

[PatColo]

intraday high 905 :D

[PatColo]

902 close, 908 high friday http://www.kitco.com/LFgif/pd1825nyb.gif

[gunDriller]

that thread title makes it sound like Palladium is providing some kind of Erotic Benefit.

[osoab]

Back under 900

[JohnQPublic]

that thread title makes it sound like Palladium is providing some kind of Erotic Benefit.

What did you think we were mtalking about? Palladium metal? (http://www.palladiumspa.com/ladies.php)Ha ha ha ha ha ha

Oh, yeah. We were. Well we are a bunch of dullards.

[Neuro]

that thread title makes it sound like Palladium is providing some kind of Erotic Benefit.
It does! Nothing moves like Pd once it gets going, but the foreplay can be exceedingly long... I started the thread title ca 2009 at old GIM, until recently it has been more interesting to watch paint dry or having a cold fish in bed... Now she is warming up!

[gunDriller]

It does! Nothing moves like Pd once it gets going, but the foreplay can be exceedingly long... I started the thread title ca 2009 at old GIM, until recently it has been more interesting to watch paint dry or having a cold fish in bed... Now she is warming up!

what's it like to hold Palladium in your hand ?

God that does sound a little odd.

[osoab]

what's it like to hold Palladium in your hand ?



precious

[JohnQPublic]

Even with the dump, the silver to Palladium ratio looks really good.

[chad]

i should have dumped at $900 (like i was about 99% ready to do), and then bought it back. oh well, from comets and all.

[osoab]

i should have dumped at $900 (like i was about 99% ready to do), and then bought it back. oh well, from comets and all.

wait a few moree weeks. we will start spouting off to russia and the price will rise again.

The gold / platinum spread is looking very nice fore a swap imho.

[osoab]

Back above 800

[Neuro]

Correction $1,100+
http://www.kitco.com/LFgif/pd92-pres.gif
Nice cup and handle!
The action 2011 to now looks like the action between 97-99 after which price almost tripled in about a years time... But with wild swings

[PatColo]

Stillwater Mining same 2.5 year cup/handle breakout,
http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=SWC&insttype=Stock&freq=2&show=&time=12

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/kaavio.Webhost/charts/big.chart?nosettings=1&symb=SWC&uf=0&type=2&size=2&sid=13844&style=320&freq=2&entitlementtoken=0c33378313484ba9b46b8e24ded87dd6&time=12&rand=1766899108&compidx=&ma=0&maval=9&lf=1&lf2=0&lf3=0&height=335&width=579&mocktick=1

Rough week for Pd... it was holding up so well, again relative to the PM slide.

Rough quarter for SWC. From yearly high of 19.42 in July/Aug, to yesterday's 11.91 close... off 9.4%

38.7% slide from its yearly high, in ~3 months. :(

[Neuro]

Even with the dump, the silver to Palladium ratio looks really good.
Right now 747/15.43=48.3 Pd/Ag ratio right now...

[JohnQPublic]

Right now 747/15.43=48.3 Pd/Ag ratio right now...

49.1 now. When it starts exceeding 50, I go hmmmm......

[palani]

http://books.google.com/books?id=2rw5AAAAcAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=palladium&hl=en&sa=X&ei=x6lmVJm5J42BygSHq4HIBg&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=palladium&f=false

Interesting 1859 book describing the history of palladium ... seems originally they thought it was merely an amalgam of platinum and mercury ... and several experiments describing the affinity of palladium to carbon and its use to combine oxygen and hydrogen to form water.

[PatColo]

49.1 now. When it starts exceeding 50, I go hmmmm......

you go hmmmm, then what? Like, it's a good time to do... what?

I guess I'd want to see a long term (25, 50 years?) price chart overlaying Pd & Ag, plus a relative strength (Pd divided by Ag) line also overlayed, so I could see: when the RS gets to such-n-such extremes, xyz price action usually happens next... you know a chart website where I could do this?

I'm skeptical though; as the PMs are "political metals"; for example I've seen PD's buoyancy this year attributed to Pd miners' strikes, and something or another happening in Russia, the leading Pd producer?

[PatColo]

Here's daily & weekly Pd bar graphs,
http://tfccharts.com/chart/PA_/
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/PA_/W

monthly only updates at the end of trading for a given month (as weekly updates end of Fri trading), so this is through end of Mar '14,
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/PA_/M

Compare to Pd's kissin cousin Pt:
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/PL_/
^ change to weekly/monthly in the sidebar. Nice time to check, as both are updated through Fri 11/28. Something (seekrit) keeping Pd buoyant. :)

http://www.kitco.com/LFgif/pd1825nyb.gif http://www.kitco.com/LFgif/pt1825nyb.gif


Stillwater bound to bounce back too, $13.13 close friday, I think I'll jump on some :) :)

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/qui...&show=&time=12 (http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=SWC&insttype=Stock&freq=2&show=&time=12)

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/kaavio.Webhost/charts/big.chart?nosettings=1&symb=SWC&uf=0&type=2&size=2&sid=13844&style=320&freq=2&entitlementtoken=0c33378313484ba9b46b8e24ded87dd6&time=12&rand=1766899108&compidx=&ma=0&maval=9&lf=1&lf2=0&lf3=0&height=335&width=579&mocktick=1

[Neuro]

49.1 now. When it starts exceeding 50, I go hmmmm......

Hmmmm....?

[Neuro]

you go hmmmm, then what? Like, it's a good time to do... what?

I guess I'd want to see a long term (25, 50 years?) price chart overlaying Pd & Ag, plus a relative strength (Pd divided by Ag) line also overlayed, so I could see: when the RS gets to such-n-such extremes, xyz price action usually happens next... you know a chart website where I could do this?

I'm skeptical though; as the PMs are "political metals"; for example I've seen PD's buoyancy this year attributed to Pd miners' strikes, and something or another happening in Russia, the leading Pd producer?
The Russian angle is very interesting, plus I read somewhere that Pd is a necessary catalyst in ammunition production! War with Russia would be a double whammy for Pd price, but of course I could see the drawbacks of such a development too... But it could be the explanation why Pd is going against the current... There is very real speculation of war with Russia. One could probably say that Cold War II has already started, and lets hope that Pd price is only a projection of that... Not expectation of WWIII!

[PatColo]

Nice pop to $818 (ask), marking the intraday high so far. These kitco 72-hour charts update when this GSUS page loads, so this is current:

http://www.kitco.com/images/live/plad.gif


I believe 818 pierces the ceiling of this little consolidation base we've been in since late Sept, over 2 months now... :)


http://www.kitco.com/LFgif/pd0182nyb.gif


Be interesting to see where we close on COMEX today?

Strong USD Index day again too-- 88.84 ATM, +0.25% (http://kitco2.websol.barchart.com/?module=symbolSearch&popup=1&region=US&sub=chart&rformat=js&_fullhost=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kitco.com%2Ffinance%2F&symbol=%24DXY)


http://d1vin4er4t7w5i.cloudfront.net/?module=chartImage&popup=1&width=250&height=120&grid=1&scale=LIN&type=BAR&gradientTop=1723582665&gradientBottom=1717476527&volume=0&notitle=1&shortTitle=&nolegend=1&xAxisMargin=0&copyright=&leftMargin=25&bottomMargin=20&lineColor=0&rawOutput=1&mouseOver=0&bgimg=.%2Fimages%2Fkitco.png&bgalign=BOTTOMLEFT&width=287&symbol=%24DXY&time=3m

I did buy some SWC Mon morning; paid a touch too much though in short-term hindsight, $13.20 :rolleyes:
http://bigcharts.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=swc&insttype=&freq=&show=

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/kaavio.Webhost/charts/big.chart?nosettings=1&symb=swc&uf=0&type=2&size=2&sid=13844&style=320&freq=1&entitlementtoken=0c33378313484ba9b46b8e24ded87dd6&time=8&rand=202261354&compidx=&ma=0&maval=9&lf=1&lf2=0&lf3=0&height=335&width=579&mocktick=1

[JohnQPublic]

I am thinking it may have something to do with cold fusion breakthroughs, but the only breakthroughs being reported are based on nickel (ecat). Maybe there is somethig else going on that is not being reported.

http://blogs.economictimes.indiatimes.com/Sigma/how-unexplained-anomalies-are-keeping-scientists-interested-in-low-energy-nuclear-reactions/

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/191754-cold-fusion-reactor-verified-by-third-party-researchers-seems-to-have-1-million-times-the-energy-density-of-gasoline

http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/LuganoReportSubmit.pdf

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/clean-tech/item/38698-power-output-of-potential-c

[JohnQPublic]

Here (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-h-bailey/low-energy-nuclear-reacti_b_6189772.html) is some discussion involving palladium:

Brillouin Energy
Researchers at Brillouin Energy Corp. of Berkeley, California are developing what they term a controlled electron capture reaction (CECR) (http://brillouinenergy.com/?page=tech_summary) process. In their experiments, ordinary hydrogen is loaded into a nickel lattice, and then an electronic pulse is passed through the system, using a proprietary control system. They claim that their device converts H-1 (ordinary hydrogen) to H-2 (deuterium), then to H-3 (tritium) and H-4 (quatrium), which then decays to He-4 and releases energy.
In one paper on their website (http://brillouinenergy.com/docs.php?doc=phase_1_data), the Brillouin researchers found that "excess heat is always seen" when tuned pulses are present. They report being able to obtain excess heat using ordinary water with hydrided nickel, palladium or copper. In a second paper (http://brillouinenergy.com/docs.php?doc=phase_2_data), the researchers assert that the excess heat is "measurable and repeatable."

Additional technical details are given in a Powerpoint presentation (http://brillouinenergy.com/Docs1/BE25Tec.PPS), a report (http://brillouinenergy.com/docs.php?doc=energy_hypothesis) summarizing their "quantum reaction hypothesis," and in a patent application (http://patentscope.wipo.int/search/docservicepdf_pct/id00000026903329.pdf). Their patent application reads, in part, "Embodiments generate thermal energy by neutron generation, neutron capture and subsequent transport of excess binding energy as useful heat for any application."

[JohnQPublic]

Lawsuit Alleges Palladium, Platinum Prices Manipulated (http://online.wsj.com/articles/lawsuit-alleges-palladium-platinum-prices-manipulated-1417033574)
"...Goldman Sachs Group Inc., HSBC Holdings PLC, Standard Bank Group Ltd. , and German chemical maker BASF SE have been accused of manipulating platinum and palladium prices in a lawsuit filed in New York by a jeweler.

The four companies colluded since 2007 to manipulate the twice-daily price “fixes” for the metals, said lawyers for Modern Settings LLC, a jewelry and law enforcement badge-making company in Sarasota, Fla. The alleged price rigging allowed the four to enrich themselves at the expense of other market participants, the lawsuit said.

Goldman Sachs, HSBC, Standard Bank and BASF refused to comment on the lawsuit when contacted by The Wall Street Journal..."

[PatColo]

I am thinking it may have something to do with cold fusion breakthroughs, but the only breakthroughs being reported are based on nickel (ecat). Maybe there is somethig else going on that is not being reported.

http://blogs.economictimes.indiatimes.com/Sigma/how-unexplained-anomalies-are-keeping-scientists-interested-in-low-energy-nuclear-reactions/

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/191754-cold-fusion-reactor-verified-by-third-party-researchers-seems-to-have-1-million-times-the-energy-density-of-gasoline

http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/LuganoReportSubmit.pdf

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/clean-tech/item/38698-power-output-of-potential-c


^ that's what I been saying, something seekrit unfolding... shhh! don't tell anyone!! :D

'Sides, nickel, Pd & Pt are found in the same mines. The "...based on nickel" thing is just misdirection to throw off the hounds. Pd's price behaviour this year speaks to the twoof.




I did buy some SWC Mon morning; paid a touch too much though in short-term hindsight, $13.20 :rolleyes:
http://bigcharts.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=swc&insttype=&freq=&show=

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/kaavio.Webhost/charts/big.chart?nosettings=1&symb=swc&uf=0&type=2&size=2&sid=13844&style=320&freq=1&entitlementtoken=0c33378313484ba9b46b8e24ded87dd6&time=8&rand=202261354&compidx=&ma=0&maval=9&lf=1&lf2=0&lf3=0&height=335&width=579&mocktick=1


SWC $13.65 high today (+78 cents, +6%), real time quote (http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/SWC). Volume looks on track to be (only) "average" though, which is ~2MM shares/day. Volume says "market conviction." A rally above $14 on 3+ MM shares traded would say the bottom's behind us (pun there somewhere...:rolleyes:).

Insiders been buying (http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/SWC/insideractions), incl a director who bought 3K shares in Aug at 17.99, and 2K more shares Mon 12/1 at 13.51. :)

[PatColo]

Lawsuit Alleges Palladium, Platinum Prices Manipulated (http://online.wsj.com/articles/lawsuit-alleges-palladium-platinum-prices-manipulated-1417033574)


Yeah I got an invite to join that class-action jobee, coz I did trade Pd futures around 06/07... but been out of the country, only forward my physical mail periodically, and got that one too late. My trades were net-profitable, but hey if the NY jooweler's suit against the other jooz resulted in them throwing some free bagels my way; I would accept.

:eek: < bagel smiley.

[JohnQPublic]

'Sides, nickel, Pd & Pt are found in the same mines. The "...based on nickel" thing is just misdirection to throw off the hounds. Pd's price behaviour this year speaks to the twoof.

It gets better than that- they are chemcially very similar. They are in the same group in the periodic table of elements, meaning their electron configuration and chemistry are very similar.

http://gold-silver.us/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7051&stc=1

[Neuro]

Here (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-h-bailey/low-energy-nuclear-reacti_b_6189772.html) is some discussion involving palladium:

Brillouin Energy
Researchers at Brillouin Energy Corp. of Berkeley, California are developing what they term a controlled electron capture reaction (CECR) (http://brillouinenergy.com/?page=tech_summary) process. In their experiments, ordinary hydrogen is loaded into a nickel lattice, and then an electronic pulse is passed through the system, using a proprietary control system. They claim that their device converts H-1 (ordinary hydrogen) to H-2 (deuterium), then to H-3 (tritium) and H-4 (quatrium), which then decays to He-4 and releases energy.
In one paper on their website (http://brillouinenergy.com/docs.php?doc=phase_1_data), the Brillouin researchers found that "excess heat is always seen" when tuned pulses are present. They report being able to obtain excess heat using ordinary water with hydrided nickel, palladium or copper. In a second paper (http://brillouinenergy.com/docs.php?doc=phase_2_data), the researchers assert that the excess heat is "measurable and repeatable."

Additional technical details are given in a Powerpoint presentation (http://brillouinenergy.com/Docs1/BE25Tec.PPS), a report (http://brillouinenergy.com/docs.php?doc=energy_hypothesis) summarizing their "quantum reaction hypothesis," and in a patent application (http://patentscope.wipo.int/search/docservicepdf_pct/id00000026903329.pdf). Their patent application reads, in part, "Embodiments generate thermal energy by neutron generation, neutron capture and subsequent transport of excess binding energy as useful heat for any application."
Basically they claim that they mastered cold fusion, but without saying it. Because cold fusion isn't politically correct! LOL

I never heard of quatrium before. How can a proton and 3 neutrons decay into 2 protons and 2 neutrons?

[Neuro]

^ that's what I been saying, something seekrit unfolding... shhh! don't tell anyone!! :D

'Sides, nickel, Pd & Pt are found in the same mines. The "...based on nickel" thing is just misdirection to throw off the hounds. Pd's price behaviour this year speaks to the twoof.

But I read somewhere... Most likely here, that Nickel and Palladium are found in the same mines. But you have to choose which one you are going for! If you go for Nickel you get less Pd and vice versa. So if Nickel get scarce and becomes focus of mining, Palladium, which is a much smaller market in monetary terms get much more scarcer, but the price may have to go up tenfold vs Nickel, before it becomes profitable to change focus to Pd instead of Ni...

[PatColo]

HUI down between 1-3% all day (http://bigcharts.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=hui&insttype=&freq=1&show=&time=6), even gapped lower @ the open; meanwhile SWC 13.85, +.36, +2.67% (http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/SWC) :D

Not to mention, Pd up all day, contrary to the other PMs all down 1+ %

I'm telling yous losers, something's percolating below the radar somewhere.

[chad]

if it goes back t $900, i'm selling it. bought it at like $190 or so.

[gunDriller]

if it goes back t $900, i'm selling it. bought it at like $190 or so.

Does anybody think that Palladium could become a Monetary metal ?

For a non-monetary metal, it's done fantastic.


I asked a local coin dealer about buying Platinum. But he wouldn't talk about spread, said he had to look into it.

Maybe I'll ask one of the good dealers about Palladium. How much they would buy it for.