Safe deposit box, or "if you don't hold it, you don't own it

[Shortstack]

There are two camps here on where to store your PM's, I am in the safe deposit box camp. We all know where Ponce stands.

I have allways stored most of my PM's in safe deposit boxes. I do keep some junk silver and a few other pieces in my safe at home, all else in spread out between two banks. My feeling is that if Uncle Sam decides to confiscate PM's then the world will see this as a last ditch effort to support the dollar, and immediatly dump all dollar denominated investments. No way the government could confiscate PM's without destroying their own ability to borrow money on the world markets. The 1933 confiscation was different, as we were on the gold standard - those were different times. Here is a link to an article from Don at Colorado Gold, he seems to feel the same way as I, but with different reasons. Don's position seems to be that it would not be practicle to successfully confiscate PM's:

http://www.coloradogold.com/archive/Confiscation-63.html

I would be interested to hear how others on this board feel about the subject, and what they actaully do. I know this subject was hashed out many times on the old GIM, but those discussion are all gone now. I thought it would be a good idea to get some feedback memorialized on this site.

[striped_bear]

PM confiscation is not what concerns me about safety deposit boxes.

What concerns me is that the contents of a safety deposit box are not insured: the bank or credit union has no accountability if something disappears from them.

Also what has happened before is that banks will randomly seize a safety deposit box and auction off the contents (should be a news clip on youtube about this).

I would love to be able to store stuff in my credit union's vault, but I just don't know if I can trust them when they flat out tell me that if anything happens to go missing from it for any reason they will not be responsible.

Plus even if they were accountable for the contents, that would mean you would have to declare your PM holdings on public record, and that is even less appealing to me. I keep my PMs off the books.

[Ponce]

Short? in the UK 70 cops came down on two banks an oppened all the safety deposit boxes and customers asked about their property.........no way in hell would I have a box in a bank

[madfranks]

I had an SDB at a local branch bank, and the second time I tried to access it, the keys didn't work. Turns out they changed the locks without telling me! I was already nervous with the idea of relinquishing control of my metal to someone else, so you can imagine how I felt when I learned that it had been tampered without my knowledge. So, I don't have an SDB anymore.

[Korbin Dallas]

I don't trust banks or credit unions. A C.U. near my house closed, with very little notice. It left many wondering where the contents of their SDB's were. They had been moved to a different location. No accountability. No inventory. No way would I trust them. There are dozens of safe, secure ways to store PM's without the use of Banksters.

[Ironfield]

As with many other members on the forum I deride the idea of handing over my hard earned PMs to someone or institute which claims to have my best interests at heart.

I hold on to my PMs and almost no one but my father knows I own them and one close friend who is also into financial prepping. However even they do not know the exact location of where they are stored.

Loose lips sink ships. So a secure, well hidden safe and not running ones mouth off to the world at large seems to be the safest thing for me to do. Oh and if anyone else has a safe bolt, it to the wall/floor!

-Ironfield

[sirgonzo420]

I was thinking of opening a safe deposit box.

I have a lot of frozen fish, and don't have room in my freezer.


;D

[ximmy]

I keep mine very close by.. usually within a 5 minutes access time... and not in a vehicle... lol

[Neuro]

I was thinking of opening a safe deposit box.

I have a lot of frozen fish, and don't have room in my freezer.


;D

Ahhh the silver of the sea, yes you should store it safely! And what is more safe tha a safe deposit box.... ;D

[oldmansmith]

Safe deposit box? Your deposit is safe, but whether or not you will ever get to withdraw is debatable.

[AndreaGail]

I have one...just not at a bank ;D

[MoShaniqua]

I'm with the 'if you don't hold it...' camp.

If the IRS or any other gov't agency decides you owe them money, who's to say they wouldn't have the power to seize the contents of your box. Or a non-gov't creditor holding a judgement against you.
The federal gov't has the power to seal all safety boxes at any time for any reason or take inventory and control what you can remove from it. They've already done this in the past and history seems to repeat itself.

[k-os]

I wouldn't put anything of value in a "Safe" Deposit Box. The banks have screwed up plenty of times. Also, I don't discount that the government would confiscate the contents if you happen to be a suspicious character on a certain list* . . . and blame it on a bank screw up.

*We're all on the list.

[Rebel Yarr]

I just grabbed an SDB this week - I have a move in progress and need to store some things - feel it will be better than in a storage locker....

I looked at the paperwork ...and yeah - it pretty much releases all liability of anything in the box - however, the limit of liability clause on the contract is like $500 per dollar you paid for the box rental - so they do technically have some liability for the value of the contents.

[Shortstack]

But the bank would have to be released from any liability right? I mean, how can you prove that you had 10 million in diamonds in the box, if something did happen. To me, there is no way a bank can be liable for the contents of a box when they don't know what is in that box.

And again, if the government confiscates, they will do so much damage to the currency that any potential benefits would pale in comparison. The only problems I hear of are dormant boxes held by a long dead person. For someone who pays their fees, I really don't see a downside here. And judging by the people I have seen going into the vault room (some were diamond clad "ladies who lunch" society folk), many people in my town also use safe deposit boxes to store valuables.

[SeekYeFirst]

For the paranoid: a SDB might be a good false front--"I keep everything of value there ::)"

[Saul Mine]

The only thing safe in a safe deposit box is Important Documents - something not worth stealing. Anything else is about as safe as a candy store. If you need anybody's permission to get your stuff, it's not yours. You are buying promises in a business that is famous for broken promises.

[Ponce]

Back in 1972 I bought a lot of silver, so what I did was to make a hole on the wall between the bedroom and the livingroom and put all the silver there and then fixed the wall as it was before.

For smaller amounts........a door with a core, take the door down, turn it upside down and take the bottom plate off......take the core out......your pm inside......replace the bottom plate and hang it back up again..........at one time I had about $280,000 in there for about 1.5 years till I moved.

[Son-of-Liberty]

Would never put anything in a safety deposit box. Ponce is right.

A safe built into the houses slab or into a reinforced wall would work well but is expensive. You could always seal it in, put drywall or flooring over the safe door if you are really paranoid.

I also think that PM's can be stored safely without using a safe. You could have a fake 4" ABS pipe running down under your basement slab that is capped. If you located it properly so it looked like an actual drain going to the sewer. Nobody is going to think to look in there, it is accessible, and safe from fire because the contents would be down in, or under the slab. I don't store anything this way but if you get creative there are lots of safe ways to store things.

I also like the idea of having a stash somewhere close but not in your house or on your property. That way if it is unsafe to go home or to a bank you can still have access to some money, gold or whatever.

[Wicked Witch]

Safe deposit boxes are probably fine if you

A: Trust those who control the building.
B: Trust that the building will be open for business when you want your property.

I don't trust either. Seems better to hide it someplace unconventional (i.e. not a sock drawer or small, portable safe).

If nobody knows it's there, who'd think to probe the depths of your compost pile or check the bottom of a large barrel of animal feed? And who would stop you from doing so if TSHTF?

[conan]

don't hide your valuables in anything that might be quickly thrown in the trash by your heirs

if you would unexpectedly kick-the-bucket

heaven forbid

[Celtic Rogue]

A safe is kind of a dangerous thing unless it is used as a diversion. Here are my thoughts.

Lets say that some bad person finds out you have some PM's in your house. He gets in and threatens my wife or son with harm unless I open the safe. I will open it quickly. Inside I have a small amount of cash and some silver coins.

He takes that and misses the big stash hidden elsewhere.

Desperate times make desparate people. Safes are screaming ... "Here is where the good stuff is!!!"

[Neuro]

I put all my silver in the gut of chickens in the freezer... No one would think to look there.... I hope... The chicks weigh about 25 pounds each... Further silvers antibacterial properties make the meat stay good for ever...:sarc:

[DMac]

Jim Rickards: Don't keep your gold in bank vaults (http://www.gata.org/node/8546)

Submitted by cpowell on Wed, 2010-04-14 04:22. Section: Daily Dispatches

12:15a ET Wednesday, April 14, 2010

Dear Friend of GATA and Gold (and Silver):

Interviewed by Eric King of King World News, Jim Rickards, senior managing director of the Omnis Inc. consulting firm in McLean, Virginia, says:

-- Far more claims to gold have been sold than can be delivered upon.

-- To save the dollar the United States will be forced back on a gold standard with convertibility and gold revalued to $5,500 per ounce.

-- China's need for gold to back its own currency and hedge its U.S. debt exposure is massive but the metal isn't available even as the Chinese government is commandeering the output of Chinese mines.

-- And gold owners should keep their metal in vaults not operated or controlled by banks, since keeping gold in bank vaults negates gold's purpose as a wealth preserver outside the banking system, which is vulnerable to a run on gold banks.

It's a great interview, 30 minutes long, and you can find it at King World News here:

http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2010/4/14_Jim_Rickards.html

[Shortstack]

Jim Rickards: Don't keep your gold in bank vaults (http://www.gata.org/node/8546)

Submitted by cpowell on Wed, 2010-04-14 04:22. Section: Daily Dispatches

12:15a ET Wednesday, April 14, 2010

Dear Friend of GATA and Gold (and Silver):

Interviewed by Eric King of King World News, Jim Rickards, senior managing director of the Omnis Inc. consulting firm in McLean, Virginia, says:

-- Far more claims to gold have been sold than can be delivered upon.

-- To save the dollar the United States will be forced back on a gold standard with convertibility and gold revalued to $5,500 per ounce.

-- China's need for gold to back its own currency and hedge its U.S. debt exposure is massive but the metal isn't available even as the Chinese government is commandeering the output of Chinese mines.

-- And gold owners should keep their metal in vaults not operated or controlled by banks, since keeping gold in bank vaults negates gold's purpose as a wealth preserver outside the banking system, which is vulnerable to a run on gold banks.

It's a great interview, 30 minutes long, and you can find it at King World News here:

http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2010/4/14_Jim_Rickards.html


Wrong on that last bullet point. Rickards was talking about the Harvey Organ revelation that Scotia bank has little to no metal to back up it's metal certificate program. Rickards agreed with Organ, that anyone who owns pooled or unallocated accounts should immediately redeem their metal and store it in a place like brinks. That all said, Rickards did not mention safe deposit boxes as a storage possibility, only non bank secured storage.

But maybe that's because banks in Greenwich are different than other parts of the country. The safe deposit boxes in all the banks I use (all two of them) have varied sizes of boxes, some of the floor boxes are 4 feet high by two feet wide by three feet deep. You could fit many monster boxes and Comex good delivery bars it the big ones, but not tons of silver. I think at one point, Rickards described how surprising it was that scotia bank had to air lift in 15,000 Oz of silver from Hong Kong - he used the words "it was only half a ton". Rickards, as former general council of LTCM, runs with a different crowd, the kind of people who define "backing up the truck" as spending a few hundred grand on metals. So I guess that might be why he did not recommend safe deposit boxes - even the big floor boxes in the Greenwich banks are way too small for his crowd.

[Low Pan]

For the paranoid: a SDB might be a good false front--"I keep everything of value there ::)"


bah, now I have to go and find a new tree to dig a hole by :P :D

Good thread, I've been giving a lot of thought on this subject for the past few months as I'm recently new to the PM game. I'm leaving the paper mkts for good. Some good thoughts going around.

Ponce, I hope u don't still live in the same house, if so it might be time to rearrange the PM's. Also, if there's a fire those bars are going to be a big pool of molten metal, but I like the way you think ;)

I've been thinking of getting a safe bolted to concrete and have a good spot in mind. But the size of safe a novice, but long term, PM Investor like myself would need to store the PM's (coins and boullion) and types/brands I am not familiar w/. I admit I have done a slight amt of DD on this but they all kind of blur, especially the more cost effective safes w/out all the bells and whistles (i.e. biometrics, etc). Anyone have any links on hand to some good PM Home Safe providers or manufacturers? Would rather follow up on a refernece obtained here than Google anyway ;D

[DMac]

My biggest gripe when it comes to deposit boxes for metal storage at the bank is this:

Should a real "crisis" hit the US Dollar, I foresee a dramatic rise in the price of gold. During this time, I might want to sell some, for a handsome, cash in hand profit. However, during such precipitous price movement there is a strong chance (IMO) that the banks would be closed. Access to the metal is at the whim of the bank owners, or worse, the fed-gov.

The price of security is liberty, one I have no inkling to pay.

[BabushkaLady]

I'm in the "If you don't hold it" camp.

If Mother Nature is going to send some fury my way, I don't want to have to stop by the bank and retrieve anything. I wouldn't trust a SDB at all. Hell, I don't even like banks!

When any form of SHTF comes my way, I'll pick up my "important" stuff out of my stash and high tail it out. Just my 2 cents.