Walid Shoebat-Islam Prophesied In The Bible

[greenbear]

Anyone who has ever debated with Muslims, assumed Allah is the God of the Bible under a different name, or has an interest in Bible prophesy of end-time events, will want to watch this video.

After listening to Walid Shoebat's presentation, I wonder if the western church has incorrectly viewed some last day events through a western lens.



"March 30, 2009 — Former Palestinian Muslim / terrorist Walid Shoebat explains the Bible, Biblical prophecy, and who the anti-Christ will be and where he will come from, by Middle Eastern thinking. He teaches about the "Mahdi", and that Jehovah and Allah are not the same God.
Walid Shoebat preaches regarding Islam and it's prophetic significance in the Bible. This was filmed at Koinonia Institute's 2008 Strategic Perspectives conference in Southern California hosted by Dr. Chuck Missler."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxHnb9goGqg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8960qLWF43I&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCI1HPTDH3c&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0geVOpPOgC0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_0grVTWpL4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64x0CZvJTxA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMKntfn-vRw&feature=related

[illumin19]

2:32 of the second video

"The triune (3 person :o ???) God is a reject in Islam."

Right you are Mr. Shoebat :)

It was a reject to Jesus (alayhis salam) as well and a reject to Judaism and Israel.

You must not have read your bible Mr. Shoebat. :-[
Mark 12
Verse 29
Jesus answered him, "THE FIRST OF ALL THE COMMANDMENTS IS: HEAR, O ISRAEL, THE LORD OUR GOD, THE LORD IS ONE.

I don't see any and I repeat any mention of tri or 3 in relation to God for that would be a contradiction to the above quote attributed to Jesus Al-Masih (alayhis salam).

[greenbear]

What happened to 301's response?

Why don't deleted posts show?

Or was I imagining that both 301 and illumin19 responded?

I really don't think I was imagining things.

But maybe I'm remembering wrong?

[illumin19]

What happened to 301's response?

Why don't deleted posts show?

Or was I imagining that both 301 and illumin19 responded?

I really don't think I was imagining things.

But maybe I'm remembering wrong?


Good day greenbear,

When or if I am addressed I will respond, and I'm saying this in a humble tone ok. I don't mean for this to sound like I'm standing in your face. :)

The only time I will most likely not respond is if a question/comment from someone is plain silly/stupid or if I say this is the last time I address something because of a round and round conversation seems to be happening or wrong thread to not derail the topic.

You can ask me pretty much anything and I will give an honest to God answer if....the question of course seems like an honest to God question. :)

salaam.

[StackerKen]

Howdy illumin19;

I have a question about your Sig. line.

You think Isaiah is referring to Muhammad??

I pretty sure the elect one is Jesus Christ

He brings justice to the GENTILES

[illumin19]

Howdy illumin19;

I have a question about your Sig. line.

You think Isaiah is referring to Muhammad??

I pretty sure the elect one is Jesus Christ

He brings justice to the GENTILES


Hey stacker ken, I actually like conversing with you because you have a pleasant demeanor and can accept when you stand corrected (not that I'm correcting you). I sincerely hope I can come across as light hearted as you.

If you read the whole Isaiah 42 up to verse 9 we can be going back and forth on who it is......but,
if you read the prophecy from verse 10 to verse 20 it cannot be Jesus (alayhis salam).

Simply because the fact that it mentions KEDAR who was Ishmael's (alayhis salam) 2nd son. Meaning those who would sing God's praise would not be Israelites but........ISHMAELITES :-X

Furthermore, verse 13 says the LORD shall go forth like a mighty man;
He shall stir up his zeal lik a man of war.
He shall cry out, yes, shout aloud (Allahu Akbar God is the greatest, it's usually shouted);
He shall prevail against his enemies.

Now that last line is very relevant to Muhammad (sallallahu alayhis wa salam).
Their is alot of slander on account of him being a "war monger" or "pirate" and such yet, It was PROPHECIED he would prevail against his enemies and this he did.

Not to mention singing "the LORD a new song."
Have you heard how the Qur'an is recited? They actually sing it.

Who could have brought a book that is still untarnished in it's original language after 1400 years,

became a model for a way of life, unite a whole country and counquer all traces of idolatry in a desert

land of many clans without God's (subhanahu wa ta'ala) help in a span of 22 years or so?

I'll call them coincidences (myself know there not though) for the sake of throwing some legitimate questions in the air.

I know not one in history who has done something similar......if you want to be objective.

[301ouncer]

Howdy illumin19;

I have a question about your Sig. line.

You think Isaiah is referring to Muhammad??

I pretty sure the elect one is Jesus Christ

He brings justice to the GENTILES


Hey stacker ken, I actually like conversing with you because you have a pleasant demeanor and can accept when you stand corrected (not that I'm correcting you). I sincerely hope I can come across as light hearted as you.

If you read the whole Isaiah 42 up to verse 9 we can be going back and forth on who it is......but,
if you read the prophecy from verse 10 to verse 20 it cannot be Jesus (alayhis salam).

Simply because the fact that it mentions KEDAR who was Ishmael's (alayhis salam) 2nd son. Meaning those who would sing God's praise would not be Israelites but........ISHMAELITES :-X

Furthermore, verse 13 says the LORD shall go forth like a mighty man;
He shall stir up his zeal lik a man of war.
He shall cry out, yes, shout aloud (Allahu Akbar God is the greatest, it's usually shouted);
He shall prevail against his enemies.

Now that last line is very relevant to Muhammad (sallallahu alayhis wa salam).
Their is alot of slander on account of him being a "war monger" or "pirate" and such yet, It was PROPHECIED he would prevail against his enemies and this he did.

Not to mention singing "the LORD a new song."
Have you heard how the Qur'an is recited? They actually sing it.

Who could have brought a book that is still untarnished in it's original language after 1400 years,

became a model for a way of life, unite a whole country and counquer all traces of idolatry in a desert

land of many clans without God's (subhanahu wa ta'ala) help in a span of 22 years or so?

I'll call them coincidences (myself know there not though) for the sake of throwing some legitimate questions in the air.

I know not one in history who has done something similar......if you want to be objective.


Indeed amazing illu. I liestened to the whole lecture by shiekh anwar al awlaki on this very subject. How incredibly logical he the shiekh comes across. I am sure you know him he is american too, well known.

The more amazing thing is we are using the bible alone to show the prophecis of Muhammed pbuh within all the 550 pages of the gospels. We have not even used the Quran yet.

Seriously illu, The unitrian christians I believe now after learning about your Isaiah prophecies and the gospel of James they had every right to believe in Jesus pbuh a noble and one of the mightiest of all the messengers pbut.. Can you imagine what other non-declared gospels these men had at their disposle before the burning began?

[illumin19]

Indeed amazing illu. I liestened to the whole lecture by shiekh anwar al awlaki on this very subject. How incredibly logical he the shiekh comes across. I am sure you know him he is american too, well known.

The more amazing thing is we are using the bible alone to show the prophecis of Muhammed pbuh within all the 550 pages of the gospels. We have not even used the Quran yet.

Seriously illu, The unitrian christians I believe now after learning about your Isaiah prophecies and the gospel of James they had every right to believe in Jesus pbuh a noble and one of the mightiest of all the messengers pbut.. Can you imagine what other non-declared gospels these men had at their disposle before the burning began?




Assalamu alaykim brother,
I am not familliar with the sheikh you mentioned but I'll look into it. That reminds of the prophecy about the sun rising in the west......I was thinking it could actually mean the spiritual sun as in the West is known for it's technological advances but maybe will be known or looked to in the future to shine in the spiritual aspect? Maybe bringing all the scriptures closer together? Allah knows best.

There is alot more in the Bible when refering to Muhammad (sallalahu alayhi wa salam). In the Quran it mentions the switching of words and and tampering with things out of context and such. The Qur'an has shed light for me to see in the Bible what I couldn't see before. Now instead of throwing it away all together, it is like a puzzle that needs to be bounded together.

The kicker is Genesis it seems, all with the scribes making Ishmael (alayhis salam) seem illegitamate but......I have addressed that in another thread a little bit. YOu can see in the wording when it says "God was with him" (Ishmael) that it means and have yet to see that it doesn't mean he was a messenger or prophet.

Those words "God was with him" is also mentioned of Moses, Joseph, David, Solomon, and Jesus (may the peace and blessings of God be on them all).

So I check what the Qur'an says first then check in the Bible and lo and behold it's in their but often masked alittle.

Alhamdulillah!

[Spectrism]

Three things.

1. Thanks Greenbear for the straight-forward videos that make many things clear to even the simplest among us.

2. Beware of flattery as it means you are viewed as a pushover... an easy mark.

3. It seems that illumin19 did not even view the video. When people are sold out to something, they will: a) refuse to see anything else; or b) be blinded by its authority (to which they submitted).

Suggestions- one point. Stick to one point. Demand up or down, yes or no, right or wrong - on one point at a time. A better suggestion- counter their spam with truths. Always provide the truth and those who are hungry for good food will eat well.

[StackerKen]

GreenBear.
Please forgive me for being off topic here.
I should not have posted off topic...and I am sorry that I did.

[illumin19]

GreenBear.
Please forgive me for being off topic here.
I should not have posted off topic...and I am sorry that I did.


It will be my last on the subject also GreenBear. It was a quick reply with the evidence to Ken's question/comment. I will not derail the thread further.

[301ouncer]

Indeed amazing illu. I liestened to the whole lecture by shiekh anwar al awlaki on this very subject. How incredibly logical he the shiekh comes across. I am sure you know him he is american too, well known.

The more amazing thing is we are using the bible alone to show the prophecis of Muhammed pbuh within all the 550 pages of the gospels. We have not even used the Quran yet.

Seriously illu, The unitrian christians I believe now after learning about your Isaiah prophecies and the gospel of James they had every right to believe in Jesus pbuh a noble and one of the mightiest of all the messengers pbut.. Can you imagine what other non-declared gospels these men had at their disposle before the burning began?




Assalamu alaykim brother,
I am not familliar with the sheikh you mentioned but I'll look into it. That reminds of the prophecy about the sun rising in the west......I was thinking it could actually mean the spiritual sun as in the West is known for it's technological advances but maybe will be known or looked to in the future to shine in the spiritual aspect? Maybe bringing all the scriptures closer together? Allah knows best.

There is alot more in the Bible when refering to Muhammad (sallalahu alayhi wa salam). In the Quran it mentions the switching of words and and tampering with things out of context and such. The Qur'an has shed light for me to see in the Bible what I couldn't see before. Now instead of throwing it away all together, it is like a puzzle that needs to be bounded together.

The kicker is Genesis it seems, all with the scribes making Ishmael (alayhis salam) seem illegitamate but......I have addressed that in another thread a little bit. YOu can see in the wording when it says "God was with him" (Ishmael) that it means and have yet to see that it doesn't mean he was a messenger or prophet.

Those words "God was with him" is also mentioned of Moses, Joseph, David, Solomon, and Jesus (may the peace and blessings of God be on them all).

So I check what the Qur'an says first then check in the Bible and lo and behold it's in their but often masked alittle.

Alhamdulillah!


2012? we are not sure of the date. according to some students indicating that it will happen on the friday 11.11 am. 21.12.2012. I do not take it to be significant untill it actually happen. But with everyone talking about it and scientist have actually confirmed it going to happen excatly like messenger muhammed has prophized it.

It will not be a spiritual event but a physical planetary event. Actually I used to hear this prophecy when I was about 14 years of age and used to think this will never happen in my lifetime. But look at how time is moving fast and it could happen with few years.

Anyway my beloved brother pay attention on your young sister and make dua for them. Here is the shiekh anwar al awlaki

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW6Y7ukZS6o

[Spectrism]

I will have to listen to the videos again as I tried multi-tasking... and did not give it 100%. I heard parts about all the Islamic countries being the recipients of the Messiah's "arm" (force, power, retribution..... upon His return. That alone is pretty amazing and a good warning.

The obvious references in Isaiah & Ezekiel of the manifestations of Elohim- YHWH -written as LORD (Father), El -written as God or Lord (Creator- the Word). The modern translations don't do it justice, but here the Father is pre-stating He has a chosen One upon whom His Spirit will rest.

How ludicrous it would be to say that the murderous pirate Mohammed was this perfect chosen one! Was Mohammed crucified for anyone?



In some quotes you will see the YHWH written backwards- Hebrew is written that way.



YESHAYAHU (Isaiah)42 “See, My Servant whom I uphold,
My Chosen One My being has
delighted in! I have put My Spirit upon
Him; He brings forth right-ruling to the
nations.
2“He does not cry out, nor lifts up His
voice, nor causes His voice to be heard in
the street.
3“A crushed reed He does not break, and
smoking flax He does not quench. He
brings forth right-ruling in accordance
with truth.
4“He does not become weak or crushed,
until He has established right-ruling in the
earth. And the coastlands wait for His
Torah.”
5Thus said the El, HWHY, who created the
heavens and stretched them out, who
spread forth the earth and that which
comes from it, who gives breath to the
people on it, and spirit to those who walk
on it:
6 “I, HWHY, have called You in righteousness,
and I take hold of Your hand and
guard You, and give You for a covenant to
a people, for a light to the gentiles,
7to open blind eyes, to bring out prisoners
from the prison, those who sit in darkness
from the prison house.
42:8“I am HWHY, that is My Name, and My
esteem I do not give to another, nor My
praise to idols.
Isa 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.



Isa 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
Isa 42:2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
Isa 42:3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
Isa 42:4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.
Isa 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
Isa 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
Isa 42:7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
Isa 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.


So how can the Father give praise to the Chosen One, and also not give praise to another? (Isa 42:8 & 42:1)


Mat 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

Mt 17:5 While he was still speaking, see, a
bright cloud overshadowed them. And see,
a voice came out of the cloud, saying,
“This is My Son, the Beloved, in whom I
did delight. Hear Him!”

[greenbear]

Three things.

1. Thanks Greenbear for the straight-forward videos that make many things clear to even the simplest among us.

2. Beware of flattery as it means you are viewed as a pushover... an easy mark.

3. It seems that illumin19 did not even view the video. When people are sold out to something, they will: a) refuse to see anything else; or b) be blinded by its authority (to which they submitted).

Suggestions- one point. Stick to one point. Demand up or down, yes or no, right or wrong - on one point at a time. A better suggestion- counter their spam with truths. Always provide the truth and those who are hungry for good food will eat well.




1. Thanks Greenbear for the straight-forward videos that make many things clear to even the simplest among us.

I was thrilled to find this video. It was emailed to me by a deaf friend and I told her I'd transcribe the major points for her. So I guess I'll come out knowing the material fairly well. Lol. I'm the one who's not too far north of simple. Most of the time I just want to put the truth out there and it's up to the individual whether they will accept it. I have found there is no point in trying to have a debate with Muslims.


2. Beware of flattery as it means you are viewed as a pushover... an easy mark.

Psalms 12:2-3 They speak vanity every one with his neighbour: with flattering lips and with a double heart do they speak. The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things:

I'll have to think about what you said. I hate flattery, it makes my skin crawl when I recognize it for what it is.


Suggestions- one point. Stick to one point. Demand up or down, yes or no, right or wrong - on one point at a time. A better suggestion- counter their spam with truths. Always provide the truth and those who are hungry for good food will eat well.


Excellent advice. :) Thanks.

[greenbear]

I love everything neatly sorted


I know you do. :) I wish I had that kind of mind but I'm a little different for better or worse.

[greenbear]

GreenBear.
Please forgive me for being off topic here.
I should not have posted off topic...and I am sorry that I did.


NP Ken. I'm an infamous hijacker, I even hijack my own threads.

[7th trump]

Howdy illumin19;

I have a question about your Sig. line.

You think Isaiah is referring to Muhammad??

I pretty sure the elect one is Jesus Christ

He brings justice to the GENTILES


Hey stacker ken, I actually like conversing with you because you have a pleasant demeanor and can accept when you stand corrected (not that I'm correcting you). I sincerely hope I can come across as light hearted as you.

If you read the whole Isaiah 42 up to verse 9 we can be going back and forth on who it is......but,
if you read the prophecy from verse 10 to verse 20 it cannot be Jesus (alayhis salam).

Simply because the fact that it mentions KEDAR who was Ishmael's (alayhis salam) 2nd son. Meaning those who would sing God's praise would not be Israelites but........ISHMAELITES :-X

Furthermore, verse 13 says the LORD shall go forth like a mighty man;
He shall stir up his zeal lik a man of war.
He shall cry out, yes, shout aloud (Allahu Akbar God is the greatest, it's usually shouted);
He shall prevail against his enemies.

Now that last line is very relevant to Muhammad (sallallahu alayhis wa salam).
Their is alot of slander on account of him being a "war monger" or "pirate" and such yet, It was PROPHECIED he would prevail against his enemies and this he did.

Not to mention singing "the LORD a new song."
Have you heard how the Qur'an is recited? They actually sing it.

Who could have brought a book that is still untarnished in it's original language after 1400 years,

became a model for a way of life, unite a whole country and counquer all traces of idolatry in a desert

land of many clans without God's (subhanahu wa ta'ala) help in a span of 22 years or so?

I'll call them coincidences (myself know there not though) for the sake of throwing some legitimate questions in the air.

I know not one in history who has done something similar......if you want to be objective.

Allah is a funny. Why does he give you a desert and plush green country with plenty of milk and honey to Christians?

[StackerKen]

Awesome

Thanks for that Grad :)

[KumbayaMan]

Hey GB, you don't seem to know who the guy in the video really is. I'm surprised know one has addressed this already.

I will say with all honesty that I have not watched the videos and am reluctant to do so because of the apparent dis-info this guy propagates.

Eveyone should read this article about Mr Shoebat
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/4/1/181952/0896

Here is a "Former Terrorist" who does speaking tours to Christian Zionist Churches all over the US. His stories are meant to push an agenda which has nothing to do with the "truth", "change of heart", "religious conversion", etc....

Apparently, in his speeches to these "Christians" he fully admits to KILLING (bombing) ISRAELIS in his former days as a "Terrorist"....

Now, this story may go over with the common anti-Muslim Christian (Zionist) churchgoer but anyone with critical thinking abilities would realize that any "terrorist" who gets away with (and admits to) murdering Israelis would at the very least be tried for it. More likely he'd be hunted down and assassinated by the Mossad...

I really dont want to hijack this thread but feel the man in this video deserves a very critical second look.

[greenbear]

I will say with all honesty that I have not watched the videos and am reluctant to do so because of the apparent dis-info this guy propagates.

I really dont want to hijack this thread but feel the man in this video deserves a very critical second look.

But do you feel the man in this video deserves a critical first look?


and am reluctant to do so because of the apparent dis-info this guy propagates.


Are you afraid you may be swayed by a viewpoint that is unfamiliar to you? How would you know if it is dis-info if you are reluctant to listen to it? One has to be open-minded if they are searching for truth, no?

[greenbear]

Wow, G2Rad. That is great stuff. I will read all of it on software where I can read the verses you referenced. That's a wonderful study. I like what Chuck Missler says,

"the Bible is a message system: it's not simply 66 books penned by 40 authors over thousands of years, the Bible is an integrated whole which bears evidence of supernatural engineering in every detail."

[7th trump]

No.......................you didnt murder Jesus.
The cruxifiction did two things.
1. Allows God to completely kill satan to destroy him. Satan was who nailed Jesus to the cross.
Satan before the over throw was a protector of the Mercy seat. satan earned his spot as a protector of Jesus, but fell. You may not know this about satan, but satan at one time protected Jesus. satan is also a child of Gods. Try to imagine you having to completely destroy your own children, as in destroy a child that he doesnt exist anymore? Basically having to uncreate a child.
When Jesus was nailed to the cross and died it therefore secured satans destruction by being turned to ashes from within. satan knowingly and purposely murdered Jesus which makes it easier for God to destroy satan, one of his children. When Jesus rose three days after being nailed to the cross he defeated death. We are all taught this about defeating death. But if you get a Strongs concordence and look up the word "death" for this particular chapter and verse "death" is used to describe non other than satan. The words "death", "dragon", "serpent" are all words to describing satan. So when Jesus rose from the dead it doesnt mean what you think of over coming dying. It means Jesus defeated satan. It secured satan destruction. God has every right to destroy one of His children and not feel any remorse about it. satan is a murderer, he went after Jesus to murder him!
I mean really think about it. Do you really think Jesus, in the flesh, being the Son of God can be physically destroyed by merely passing from the flesh and back into a spiritual body?
satan fell from his high place because he wanted to be Jesus. satan is very jealous of Jesus and wanted Gods children (us) to worship himself instead of Jesus. This is why you read of satan as being a dimmly lit star and even a rock, but not a very bright star and not a very stable rock and a host of other analogy's to Jesus that never stack up to Jesus.
I've been screaming up and down this forum about the appearence of satan on the sixth trumpet (666= the sixth trumpet, the sixth seal, and the sixth vail) play acting as Jesus. Even the word "antichrist" used in Revelation means when translated back into its original greek language means "instead of Christ" Not an opposite of Christ, but a fake play acting jesus as in an "instead of christ".
2. It allows no more burnt offering for sin.
The blood of Jesus took care of all other blood sacrifices for sin. God doesnt want your burnt offerings. He wants your love.
The cruxifiction done away with burnt offerings. You have to go through Jesus for repentence and salvation.
This is nothing new people. The stage was set in Genesis.
The tree of knowledge of good and evil is satan and the tree offLife is Jesus.

[Spectrism]

Hey GB, you don't seem to know who the guy in the video really is. I'm surprised know one has addressed this already.

I will say with all honesty that I have not watched the videos and am reluctant to do so because of the apparent dis-info this guy propagates.

Eveyone should read this article about Mr Shoebat
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/4/1/181952/0896

Here is a "Former Terrorist" who does speaking tours to Christian Zionist Churches all over the US. His stories are meant to push an agenda which has nothing to do with the "truth", "change of heart", "religious conversion", etc....

Apparently, in his speeches to these "Christians" he fully admits to KILLING (bombing) ISRAELIS in his former days as a "Terrorist"....

Now, this story may go over with the common anti-Muslim Christian (Zionist) churchgoer but anyone with critical thinking abilities would realize that any "terrorist" who gets away with (and admits to) murdering Israelis would at the very least be tried for it. More likely he'd be hunted down and assassinated by the Mossad...

I really dont want to hijack this thread but feel the man in this video deserves a very critical second look.




While it is good to be critical of the source, I think you also need to be critical of the critic of the source. I checked out the links and did not see any substantial evidence. The heaviest thing they had was "no registration as a tax-exempt" organization.... and poo-pooed it as a "church loop-hole". Guess what! The CHURCH is above the IRS and the CHURCH is above human government. The government has NO authority over the CHURCH and has no right to tax or require tax-filing-status.

I would suggest you watch the videos and look for flaws in the message.

[Spectrism]

OK dude, this is the stuff of cults. yeeouch....

Satan was (is) NOT a child of God. Lucifer was not a protector of Jesus. Such a statement tells me you do not know who Jesus is.

It was the sin of mankind that nailed the Messiah to the tree. G2Rad was correct in his comment. Those washed in the blood of Messiah are the cause of the crucifixion. We are all responsible.... and yet forgiven of that debt. Those who refuse the gift of salvation will hold that responsibility as well as all the debt of their sins.




No.......................you didnt murder Jesus.
The cruxifiction did two things.
1. Allows God to completely kill satan to destroy him. Satan was who nailed Jesus to the cross.
Satan before the over throw was a protector of the Mercy seat. satan earned his spot as a protector of Jesus, but fell. You may not know this about satan, but satan at one time protected Jesus. satan is also a child of Gods. Try to imagine you having to completely destroy your own children, as in destroy a child that he doesnt exist anymore? Basically having to uncreate a child.
When Jesus was nailed to the cross and died it therefore secured satans destruction by being turned to ashes from within. satan knowingly and purposely murdered Jesus which makes it easier for God to destroy satan, one of his children.
satan fell from his high place because he wanted to be Jesus. satan is very jealous of Jesus and wanted Gods children (us) to worship himself instead of Jesus. This is why you read of satan as being dimmly lit star and even a rock, but not a very bright star and not a very stable rock and a host of other analogy to Jesus.
I've been screaming up and down this forum about the appearence of satan on the sixth trumpet (666= the sixth trumpet, the sixth seal, and the sixth vail) play acting as Jesus. Even the word "antichrist" used in Revelation means when translated back into its original greek language means "instead of Christ" Not an opposite of Christ, but a fake play acting jesus as in an "instead of christ".
2. It allows no more burnt offering for sin.
The blood of Jesus took care of all other blood sacrifices for sin. God doesnt want your burnt offerings. He wants your love.
The cruxifiction done away with burnt offerings. You have to go through Jesus for repentence and salvation.
This is nothing new people. The stage was set in Genesis.
The tree of knowledge of good and evil is satan and the tree offLife is Jesus.

[7th trump]

OK dude, this is the stuff of cults. yeeouch....

Satan was (is) NOT a child of God. Lucifer was not a protector of Jesus. Such a statement tells me you do not know who Jesus is.

It was the sin of mankind that nailed the Messiah to the tree. G2Rad was correct in his comment. Those washed in the blood of Messiah are the cause of the crucifixion. We are all responsible.... and yet forgiven of that debt. Those who refuse the gift of salvation will hold that responsibility as well as all the debt of their sins.




No.......................you didnt murder Jesus.
The cruxifiction did two things.
1. Allows God to completely kill satan to destroy him. Satan was who nailed Jesus to the cross.
Satan before the over throw was a protector of the Mercy seat. satan earned his spot as a protector of Jesus, but fell. You may not know this about satan, but satan at one time protected Jesus. satan is also a child of Gods. Try to imagine you having to completely destroy your own children, as in destroy a child that he doesnt exist anymore? Basically having to uncreate a child.
When Jesus was nailed to the cross and died it therefore secured satans destruction by being turned to ashes from within. satan knowingly and purposely murdered Jesus which makes it easier for God to destroy satan, one of his children.
satan fell from his high place because he wanted to be Jesus. satan is very jealous of Jesus and wanted Gods children (us) to worship himself instead of Jesus. This is why you read of satan as being dimmly lit star and even a rock, but not a very bright star and not a very stable rock and a host of other analogy to Jesus.
I've been screaming up and down this forum about the appearence of satan on the sixth trumpet (666= the sixth trumpet, the sixth seal, and the sixth vail) play acting as Jesus. Even the word "antichrist" used in Revelation means when translated back into its original greek language means "instead of Christ" Not an opposite of Christ, but a fake play acting jesus as in an "instead of christ".
2. It allows no more burnt offering for sin.
The blood of Jesus took care of all other blood sacrifices for sin. God doesnt want your burnt offerings. He wants your love.
The cruxifiction done away with burnt offerings. You have to go through Jesus for repentence and salvation.
This is nothing new people. The stage was set in Genesis.
The tree of knowledge of good and evil is satan and the tree offLife is Jesus.


Stuff of cults????
Its right out of the Bible Spec.
What Bible are you reading?


Satan was (is) NOT a child of God. Lucifer was not a protector of Jesus. Such a statement tells me you do not know who Jesus is.
I'll pull the chapter and verse where God says he made lucifer the full package, very beautiful. Common sense tells me if God made him the full package then by common sense he was created just like you and me, no different. lucifer at one point earned the full package. He was very high up the ladder as a protector of the Mercy seat.


It was the sin of mankind that nailed the Messiah to the tree.
Nope.................thats not how it went down Spec. What nailed Jesus to the cross was His profession of being the Son of God, not anybodies sin. Remember it was the Romans who nailed Jesus to the cross for professing to being the Son of God. Who was in the background demanding the soldiers to nail Jesus to the cross?
The sin started when Eve and then Adam partook of the tree of Knowledge of good and evil in Genesis. Before that they didnt know what was sin


Those washed in the blood of Messiah are the cause of the crucifixion.
Again...............wrong. Those washed in the blood did not cause the crucifixion. How can the crux have happened if you have yet to wash your hands? This is aicken to the question if the egg came before the chicken. You make no sense at all.
Those washed in the blood have repented through Jesus instead of a blood sacrifice of an animal.

[StackerKen]

7th;. Jesus is Not a created being. He is the Unique only begotten Son of God.
Jesus is the Logos (the word)

look here..
John 1

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2The same was in the beginning with God.

3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.



Lucifer is a created being. Not a child of God.

They are not brothers like the mormons teach.

[7th trump]

7th;. Jesus is Not a created being. He is the Unique only begotten Son of God.
Jesus is the Logos (the word)

look here..
John 1

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2The same was in the beginning with God.

3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.



Lucifer is a created being. Not a child of God.

They are not brothers like the mormons teach.



I never said Jesus was created.
What I said was lucifer was created by God and turned evil. There was an over throw in the first earth age which brought in the current earth age where each of us get turns in the flesh to see who we are going to follow, satan or Christ.
When you die you leave this flesh body and go into your original spiritual body where you will never get sick, get old, or sleep and feel no pain.
This body is angelic which is no different than any angel or lucifer himself.
Beleive it or not but even the devil is in angelic body. Heck......Micheal has him chained down in Heaven. Ever read Revelation where theres war waged in Heaven between lucifer and his angels and Micheal and his angels just before satan is kicked to earth to which theres piece in Heaven for a half an hour, but a woe to those on earth during this half hour?
Doesnt mean satans an angel, but lucifer is in an angelic body until he is destroyed from within.

[StackerKen]

I never said Jesus was created.



I didn't mean to imply that you said that.

I was just trying to point out the Huge difference between Jesus and Lucifer

Jesus is the only begotten Son

Lucifer is not a son....He is a created being

Huge difference

[7th trump]

Common sense tells me if God made Lucifer the full package then by common sense he was created just like you and me, no different

The key is free will.

God is not author of evil.

God made Lucifer,
Lucifer made himself Devil

God did not make Devil, He is not his father. Devil fathered his seed starting with Adam and Eve ( I am not talking about bodily but spiritualy, because tissues don't know about issues ;) )

power of free will ....

5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

You have free will to decide who you are going to serve.

No kidding God is not the author of evil. Who said it was? I didnt so please dont imply I said such a thing.


God made Lucifer,
Lucifer made himself Devil
I agree!

And since God made everyone except Jesus and since lucifer was created by God and even though fell from a earned high place to evil still makes God lucifers father no matter how you dice or slice it.
You can twist it all you want, but your just kidding and dilluting yourself with that logic.

The devil didnt father Adam or Eve..........................remember in Genesis God created Adam and Eve and put them in the garden with the Tree of Life (Jesus) and the tree of Knowledge of good and evil (satan).........more illogic of yours to go against the word of God.

[Spectrism]

Quote
It was the sin of mankind that nailed the Messiah to the tree.
Nope.................thats not how it went down Spec. What nailed Jesus to the cross was His profession of being the Son of God, not anybodies sin. Remember it was the Romans who nailed Jesus to the cross for professing to being the Son of God. Who was in the background demanding the soldiers to nail Jesus to the cross?
The sin started when Eve and then Adam partook of the tree of Knowledge of good and evil in Genesis. Before that they didnt know what was sin


Romans carried out the murder, but was there really a verdict of guilty because He called Himself the Son of God?

Mat 27:22 Pilate saith unto them, What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ? They all say unto him, Let him be crucified.
Mat 27:23 And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified.
Mat 27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
Mat 27:25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.





Quote
Those washed in the blood of Messiah are the cause of the crucifixion.
Again...............wrong. Those washed in the blood did not cause the crucifixion. How can the crux have happened if you have yet to wash your hands? This is aicken to the question if the egg came before the chicken. You make no sense at all.
Those washed in the blood have repented through Jesus instead of a blood sacrifice of an animal.


It was the mob of Jews who claimed the guilt at that scene. But it is all of us who caused the Messiah- the Word of God to become flesh and die for the lost.

Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

His joy was to save the lost. For that He gave up His own life.

Joh 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.


Joh 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.


Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.


The plain fact is this: if we did not sin, we would not need the blood sacrifice.

[7th trump]

Quote
It was the sin of mankind that nailed the Messiah to the tree.
Nope.................thats not how it went down Spec. What nailed Jesus to the cross was His profession of being the Son of God, not anybodies sin. Remember it was the Romans who nailed Jesus to the cross for professing to being the Son of God. Who was in the background demanding the soldiers to nail Jesus to the cross?
The sin started when Eve and then Adam partook of the tree of Knowledge of good and evil in Genesis. Before that they didnt know what was sin


Romans carried out the murder, but was there really a verdict of guilty because He called Himself the Son of God?

Mat 27:22 Pilate saith unto them, What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ? They all say unto him, Let him be crucified.
Mat 27:23 And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified.
Mat 27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
Mat 27:25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.





Quote
Those washed in the blood of Messiah are the cause of the crucifixion.
Again...............wrong. Those washed in the blood did not cause the crucifixion. How can the crux have happened if you have yet to wash your hands? This is aicken to the question if the egg came before the chicken. You make no sense at all.
Those washed in the blood have repented through Jesus instead of a blood sacrifice of an animal.


It was the mob of Jews who claimed the guilt at that scene. But it is all of us who caused the Messiah- the Word of God to become flesh and die for the lost.

Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

His joy was to save the lost. For that He gave up His own life.

Joh 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.


Joh 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.


Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.


The plain fact is this: if we did not sin, we would not need the blood sacrifice.




Where you in that mob of jews Spect calling for the murder?
I know I was not. I was still up in Heaven waiting my turn on earth in the flesh for God to see who I was going to serve.
How about you?

[Spectrism]

7th Trump- you seem to have a problem seeing the difference between Creator and Father.


And since God made everyone except Jesus and since lucifer was created by God and even though fell from a earned high place to evil still makes God lucifers father no matter how you dice or slice it.
You can twist it all you want, but your just kidding and dilluting yourself with that logic.


The Creator is the source of all life. A Father is a familial relationship, more intimate than Creator. A Father shares His inheritance and DNA with His offspring. The devil has neither of these. In fact, the devil was not even created "in the image of God". This is whay he hates mankind. The devil is jealous and furious.

[Spectrism]

Where you in that mob of jews Spect calling for the murder?
I know I was not. I was still up in Heaven waiting my turn on earth in the flesh for God to see who I was going to serve.
How about you?


This is basic theology and unfortunately we have gone outside the topic of this thread. I am surprised that someone calling himself 7th Trump would be so far from the truth. If you are outside the blood of Messiah, then you are lost in your sin.

If you think you pre-existed in heaven before incarnation, then you are bewitched by a strange spirit / cult.

[greenbear]

7th,

I'm asking this because I'm trying to find out where you're coming from. I'm not trying to attack you.


Do you recognize the Bible (66 books) as the ultimate authority for a Christian for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness?

Are there other books or teachers that you put at the same level with or above the Bible (66 books)?

[7th trump]

Where you in that mob of jews Spect calling for the murder?
I know I was not. I was still up in Heaven waiting my turn on earth in the flesh for God to see who I was going to serve.
How about you?


This is basic theology and unfortunately we have gone outside the topic of this thread. I am surprised that someone calling himself 7th Trump would be so far from the truth. If you are outside the blood of Messiah, then you are lost in your sin.

If you think you pre-existed in heaven before incarnation, then you are bewitched by a strange spirit / cult.

Until you get a Strongs Concordence to understand the translations from Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic to English you are lost in the Bible.
Do you even know what happens at the seventh trump?

[7th trump]

7th,

I'm asking this because I'm trying to find out where you're coming from. I'm not trying to attack you.


Do you recognize the Bible (66 books) as the ultimate authority for a Christian for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness?

Are there other books or teachers that you put at the same level with or above the Bible (66 books)?


A Companion JKV Bible and a Strong's Concordence to get the translations correct.

[7th trump]

And since God made everyone except Jesus and since lucifer was created by God and even though fell from a earned high place to evil still makes God lucifers father no matter how you dice or slice it.
You can twist it all you want, but your just kidding and dilluting yourself with that logic.

The devil didnt father Adam or Eve..........................remember in Genesis God created Adam and Eve and put them in the garden with the Tree of Life (Jesus) and the tree of Knowledge of good and evil (satan).........more illogic of yours to go against the word of God.


Please consider what the Scripture says:

39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

-----------------------

once again the Scripture:

5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

God created lucifer just like he created you.
satan fell from a high earned place as a protector of the Mercy seat (Jesus).
For his earning of a high place God made him the full package (beautiful).
What you are quoting is misquoted. God is saying to those in the flesh as sons of satan, because like satan, they too are liars and deceivers and murders.
Everyone born in the flesh are born with a blank mind to grow into who they choose to serve.

[7th trump]

If you think you pre-existed in heaven before incarnation, then you are bewitched by a strange spirit / cult.


This was always an interesting topic for me. Spectrism, could you please clear up a confusion for me?

If our souls come into existance at the moment of birth, how is it not in conflict with the notion that God is done with creation after day six of Genesis?

Thank you in advance.



Thank you G2rad.
You are providing logic what the Bible says about the three earth ages.
Nothing new under the sun.....................with every invention thats not inveted yet.
We were here before in the first earth age where the devil didnt fall from a high place for the earth to be destroyed from its former setting to the second earth age for each to take his turn in the flesh.

[7th trump]

Sir, that is what the Bible says. It is clear as day.

We are of our father the Devil, unless saved.

It does not say we are Devil's seed bodily.
God is a Spirit and does not care about flesh.

( Neither it talks about children. (!) )

Here is one more I can recall:

Galatians 3:16 & 29
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


G2Rad,
You are misquoting the Bible.
The devil has no claim to everyone, just the kenites.
Its clear as day that Jesus is addressing the kenites, not everyone as you suggest.
Not to attack you but this is a perfect example of not understanding or not distingquishing the object from the subject which is a problem with most people when reading the Bible.

Like I said before unless you go through Jesus you will not acheive salvation and that does not say that the devil is our, or my, father. We are created in the image of God, not the devil.

[greenbear]

7th,

I'm asking this because I'm trying to find out where you're coming from. I'm not trying to attack you.


Do you recognize the Bible (66 books) as the ultimate authority for a Christian for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness?

Are there other books or teachers that you put at the same level with or above the Bible (66 books)?


A Companion JKV Bible and a Strong's Concordence to get the translations correct.


I'm going to assume that you don't think the Strong's Concordance is inspired scripture, and that you accept the Bible as THE highest authority even though you feel qualified to re-translate it yourself. If this is what you believe, then it must follow that any other writings, including the Apocryphal books, and any man's opinion is trumped by the Holy Bible.

This is what the Holy Bible has to say about who crucified Jesus.




1. The Jewish religious leaders are responsible for killing their Messiah (Matt 26:3-4, Matt 27:22-25).




2. The Jewish people themselves were also responsible (Luke 23:21, Matt 27:21, Acts 2:22-23).




3. The Romans are responsible for killing Jesus (Matt 27:27-37).




4. The princes of this world killed Jesus.


1 Corinthians 2:7-8 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

In Jesus' day the Jews were subjects of the Roman empire. Yet, Paul tells us that "the princes of this world" crucified Jesus Christ. Who do the scriptures say are the "princes of this world" that Paul is referring to?


In Ephesians 6:12 Paul states that our enemy is not flesh and blood, but rather the powers of a dark spiritual kingdom of wickedness.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.other epistles.


In Colossians 1:16 Paul tells us that there are both physical, human, visible and non-physical, non-human, invisible principalities and powers.

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:


"The princes of this world" referred to in 1 Cor 2:8 visible are rulers in the invisible realm.

Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Ephesians 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,


We know that the first promise of the Redeemer appears back in Genesis 3:15.

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.


Christ's crucifixion fulfilled this prophesy, the promise of the Seed of the Woman who would bruise the serpent's head while receiving a bruise to his heel from the Serpent. Satan crucified the God/Man thinking to destroy the promise of the Redeemer of mankind. Instead, the serpent, who is Satan, received a deadly blow. As Paul said, Satan's kingdom would not have crucified the Lord of Glory if he had understood this mystery which God ordained before the world was created.




5.The Bible also reveals that God sacrificed his own Son on the cross. God sent his own Son to be his Sacrificial Lamb.


Isaiah 53:4-6 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Genesis 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

Ezekiel 45:15 And one lamb out of the flock, out of two hundred, out of the fat pastures of Israel; for a meat offering, and for a burnt offering, and for peace offerings, to make reconciliation for them, saith the Lord GOD.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.



6. Christ consented to be crucified.


Philippians 2:6-8 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Matthew 26:53-54 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?




7. Finally, the scriptures teach that you and I are responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.


Isaiah 53:5-6 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.



There are seven parties who are responsible for Jesus' crucifixion. You and I are responsible for Jesus' death.

Edit: changed verb tense to "are" in last sentence.

[7th trump]

Its clear as day that Jesus is addressing the kenites, not everyone as you suggest.
Not to attack you but this is a perfect example of not understanding or not distingquishing the object from the subject which is a problem with most people when reading the Bible.

Like I said before unless you go through Jesus you will not acheive salvation and that does not say that the devil is our, or my, father. We are created in the image of God, not the devil.



I don't see how those were "kenites".

..........................................

What I know is that "If God were your Father, ye would love me" in the same verse qualifies me.
Since you deny Jesus died for our sins, what would be your basis for love to Jesus?
Without love you are no different than the Pharisees to whom Jesus was addressing in the passage.

7th trump, sorry, but at thins point, you have no understanding and at peril of destruction

I must warn you that by denying gospel you are denying your salvation

This is not meant as accusation, but as a friendly warning

I hope you would consider changing the path. Until that happens, I hope you would excuse me if I chose not to entangle in discussions on faith with you.

whatever your choice be, it is yours, I respect that.

No hard feelings

Look G2rad, I have no idea where you are getting that I deny that Jesus died for our sins.
I know He did.
Where you are getting this idea that I'm denying anything is beyond me.
I never said any such thing G2rad.
Why do you insist on putting things in my mouth when clearly I've said no such thing.

What I've said in an earlier post was that Jesus died on the cross to defeat death (satan) and also to stop all animal blood sacrifices for our sins. God wants our love not animal sacrifices.
Only two things have changed in the law.
Animal blood sacrifices are done away with the advent of the crucifixion and the time the fake christ is on earth is shortened to 5 months.
Otherwise the law hasnt changed one iotta.

[7th trump]

7th,

I'm asking this because I'm trying to find out where you're coming from. I'm not trying to attack you.


Do you recognize the Bible (66 books) as the ultimate authority for a Christian for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness?

Are there other books or teachers that you put at the same level with or above the Bible (66 books)?


A Companion JKV Bible and a Strong's Concordence to get the translations correct.


I'm going to assume that you don't think the Strong's Concordance is inspired scripture, and that you accept the Bible as THE highest authority even though you feel qualified to re-translate it yourself. If this is what you believe, then it must follow that any other writings, including the Apocryphal books, and any man's opinion is trumped by the Holy Bible.

This is what the Holy Bible has to say about who crucified Jesus.




1. The Jewish religious leaders are responsible for killing their Messiah (Matt 26:3-4, Matt 27:22-25).




2. The Jewish people themselves were also responsible (Luke 23:21, Matt 27:21, Acts 2:22-23).




3. The Romans are responsible for killing Jesus (Matt 27:27-37).




4. The princes of this world killed Jesus.


1 Corinthians 2:7-8 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

In Jesus' day the Jews were subjects of the Roman empire. Yet, Paul tells us that "the princes of this world" crucified Jesus Christ. Who do the scriptures say are the "princes of this world" that Paul is referring to?


In Ephesians 6:12 Paul states that our enemy is not flesh and blood, but rather the powers of a dark spiritual kingdom of wickedness.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.other epistles.


In Colossians 1:16 Paul tells us that there are both physical, human, visible and non-physical, non-human, invisible principalities and powers.

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:


"The princes of this world" referred to in 1 Cor 2:8 visible are rulers in the invisible realm.

Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Ephesians 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,


We know that the first promise of the Redeemer appears back in Genesis 3:15.

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.


Christ's crucifixion fulfilled this prophesy, the promise of the Seed of the Woman who would bruise the serpent's head while receiving a bruise to his heel from the Serpent. Satan crucified the God/Man thinking to destroy the promise of the Redeemer of mankind. Instead, the serpent, who is Satan, received a deadly blow. As Paul said, Satan's kingdom would not have crucified the Lord of Glory if he had understood this mystery which God ordained before the world was created.




5.The Bible also reveals that God sacrificed his own Son on the cross. God sent his own Son to be his Sacrificial Lamb.


Isaiah 53:4-6 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Genesis 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

Ezekiel 45:15 And one lamb out of the flock, out of two hundred, out of the fat pastures of Israel; for a meat offering, and for a burnt offering, and for peace offerings, to make reconciliation for them, saith the Lord GOD.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.



6. Christ consented to be crucified.


Philippians 2:6-8 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Matthew 26:53-54 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?




7. Finally, the scriptures teach that you and I are responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.


Isaiah 53:5-6 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.



There are seven parties who are responsible for Jesus' crucifixion. You and I are responsible for Jesus' death.

Edit: changed verb tense to "are" in last sentence.

No the Strongs is a concordence not scripture. Ever used one?
Its used to take translations back to the original language so an advent studier of the Bible can understand what the manuscripts say in its original language. Todays english doesnt neccessary have the same meaning from centuries ago. This is who translations are lost over the ages.
Its a study aid not scripture.
Ok theres two figs leafs that branch out of the fig tree. A good leaf and a bad leaf.
No what you must do is understand that these verses you are quoting may not apply to the question at hand. This is why I bring up the fact that a lot of people misquote the Bible from not understanding the subject from the object..
As far as Jesus being cruxified..............it was from the beginning.
Here you quoted the crucifix even though you forgot to quote the rest where Gods going t o crush the head of satan (kill) from Genesis.

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel

[Spectrism]

If you think you pre-existed in heaven before incarnation, then you are bewitched by a strange spirit / cult.


This was always an interesting topic for me. Spectrism, could you please clear up a confusion for me?

If our souls come into existance at the moment of birth, how is it not in conflict with the notion that God is done with creation after day six of Genesis?

Thank you in advance.




There are two issues in this. Spirit/soul inhabitation of flesh & 7th day rest of God. It turns out that both of these intertwine. :morph:

1. God create Adam by taking the mud of the earth and breathing life into it. And then He mad Eve from Adam's rib... in essence taking her life pattern from him. There is much to consider in this. Man is closer to the earth and woman is more refined. In them he created the ability to procreate, but more on that later.

When God created Adam and made Eve, He made man in His image. What is the image of God?

26And Elohim said, “Let Us make man in
Our image, according to Our likeness, and
let them rule over the fish of the sea, and
over the birds of the heavens, and over the
livestock, and over all the earth and over
all the creeping creatures that creep on the
earth.”
27And Elohim created the man in His
image, in the image of Elohim He created
him – male and female He created them.
28And Elohim blessed them, and Elohim
said to them, “Bear fruit and increase, and
fill the earth and subdue it, and rule over
the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the
heavens, and over all creatures moving on
the earth.”

First we see that the image of God (Elohim) is a plurality. We learn that there is Father, Son and Spirit.... and yet YHWH is spirit. So when God breathed life into man, He gave man a soul & spirit. This was at the moment of creating them.

Recall the warning about the tree of knowledge-
16And HWHY Elohim commanded the man,
saying, “Eat of every tree of the garden,
17but do not eat of the tree of the knowledge
of good and evil, for in the day that
you eat of it you shall certainly die.”

Later, Eve is tricked into doing this and she leads Adam into this violation too. Did they die that day? Yes! They lost their spirits. No longer could they commune with God. Now they had a sin-tainted flesh with the ability to procreate. What was left for them was flesh & soul. They could not procreate spirit. The soul is created at the beginning of life- it IS the life of that flesh. It begins when sperm & egg unite to form a new creature.... with its own DNA... its own combination of the procreating parents. That moment is the origination of the soul.

2. But didn't God rest on the 7th day? Well, yes.... but. In the 6 days of creation, all the seeds of life and goodness had been produced. The first chapter of the first book of the bible gives us a key code for future prophecy.... it shows how times are counted. That is another story. In Genesis 2, the story is told with a different view. Here we see the fall of mankind and the promise of a seed. We also see God cursing the earth and pronouncing consequences for the sins of man. I see in the second telling of the story an interruption during the 6th day, as if God is still working today and the 6th day is where we are now.

There is a splintering or doubling of the image. All of creation was completed and good, and then man destroyed the good. This caused a crash out of the 7th day and it looks like God came out of retirement because of His errant creation. The Messiah is an example of continued work.... but it is all different. The type of work changed from creation to redemption. The work of the Messiah allows those elect to enter into His rest.


Back to the question- souls in heaven before earth? I find no substance to these claims. This is a concept that runs alongside the reincarnation followers. The new age lies are the same age-old lies the serpent gave Eve in the garden of Eden.

[greenbear]

7th,

I'm asking this because I'm trying to find out where you're coming from. I'm not trying to attack you.


Do you recognize the Bible (66 books) as the ultimate authority for a Christian for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness?

Are there other books or teachers that you put at the same level with or above the Bible (66 books)?


A Companion JKV Bible and a Strong's Concordence to get the translations correct.


I'm going to assume that you don't think the Strong's Concordance is inspired scripture, and that you accept the Bible as THE highest authority even though you feel qualified to re-translate it yourself. If this is what you believe, then it must follow that any other writings, including the Apocryphal books, and any man's opinion is trumped by the Holy Bible.

This is what the Holy Bible has to say about who crucified Jesus.




1. The Jewish religious leaders are responsible for killing their Messiah (Matt 26:3-4, Matt 27:22-25).




2. The Jewish people themselves were also responsible (Luke 23:21, Matt 27:21, Acts 2:22-23).




3. The Romans are responsible for killing Jesus (Matt 27:27-37).




4. The princes of this world killed Jesus.


1 Corinthians 2:7-8 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

In Jesus' day the Jews were subjects of the Roman empire. Yet, Paul tells us that "the princes of this world" crucified Jesus Christ. Who do the scriptures say are the "princes of this world" that Paul is referring to?


In Ephesians 6:12 Paul states that our enemy is not flesh and blood, but rather the powers of a dark spiritual kingdom of wickedness.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.other epistles.


In Colossians 1:16 Paul tells us that there are both physical, human, visible and non-physical, non-human, invisible principalities and powers.

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:


"The princes of this world" referred to in 1 Cor 2:8 visible are rulers in the invisible realm.

Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Ephesians 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,


We know that the first promise of the Redeemer appears back in Genesis 3:15.

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.


Christ's crucifixion fulfilled this prophesy, the promise of the Seed of the Woman who would bruise the serpent's head while receiving a bruise to his heel from the Serpent. Satan crucified the God/Man thinking to destroy the promise of the Redeemer of mankind. Instead, the serpent, who is Satan, received a deadly blow. As Paul said, Satan's kingdom would not have crucified the Lord of Glory if he had understood this mystery which God ordained before the world was created.




5.The Bible also reveals that God sacrificed his own Son on the cross. God sent his own Son to be his Sacrificial Lamb.


Isaiah 53:4-6 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Genesis 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

Ezekiel 45:15 And one lamb out of the flock, out of two hundred, out of the fat pastures of Israel; for a meat offering, and for a burnt offering, and for peace offerings, to make reconciliation for them, saith the Lord GOD.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.



6. Christ consented to be crucified.


Philippians 2:6-8 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Matthew 26:53-54 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?




7. Finally, the scriptures teach that you and I are responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.


Isaiah 53:5-6 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.



There are seven parties who are responsible for Jesus' crucifixion. You and I are responsible for Jesus' death.

Edit: changed verb tense to "are" in last sentence.

No the Strongs is a concordence not scripture. Ever used one?
Its used to take translations back to the original language so an advent studier of the Bible can understand what the manuscripts say in its original language. Todays english doesnt neccessary have the same meaning from centuries ago. This is who translations are lost over the ages.
Its a study aid not scripture.
Ok theres two figs leafs that branch out of the fig tree. A good leaf and a bad leaf.
No what you must do is understand that these verses you are quoting may not apply to the question at hand. This is why I bring up the fact that a lot of people misquote the Bible from not understanding the subject from the object..
As far as Jesus being cruxified..............it was from the beginning.
Here you quoted the crucifix even though you forgot to quote the rest where Gods going t o crush the head of satan (kill) from Genesis.

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel


Yes, I have one at my desk. I used to use it often until I purchased Bible software.

A Bible condordance is an alphabetical index of the principal words of the Bible, with a reference to the passage in which each occurs. I believe you are specifically refering to the reference numbers to the Hebrew and Greek lexicons that are incorporated in the Strongs Concordance.

I asked you if there are other books or teachers that you put at the same level with or above the Bible. You answered the Strong's Concordance. I merely mentioned that you probably didn't mean that you put the Strong's Condordance on the same level with the Holy Bible. So we agree up to that point.

I am speechless at your assertion that the verses I quoted may have nothing to do with the topic of who is responsible for the crucifixion of Christ, since that topic is addressed in each of those verses.

"Here you quoted the crucifix even though you forgot to quote the rest where Gods going t o crush the head of satan (kill) from Genesis"

Huh??? I cannot discipher your meaning. Maybe I need a 7th Trump lexicon.

edit: added "may have"

[7th trump]

What is this saying Green?


And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.


This is the crucifixion Green.


it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel

Who's heel was bruised on the cross?
Jesus's heel was bruised..........................................H is heels were nailed to the cross.
Also while I'm at it do you have an idea whats being said here?

and between thy seed and her seed
Who's the woman Green?
And whos being addressed from God?

[StackerKen]

Great Stuff GB and Spectrism. Thanks

Spectrism I have a question though.

What do you get from this Verse in Jeremiah

Jeremiah 1:5

“ Before I formed you in the womb I knew you;
Before you were born I sanctified you;
I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”

Is that just that God Transcends time. and therefor can Know us before we are born?

Thanks in advance for your help :)

[greenbear]

7th Trump,

Sigh. Everybody here knows about Gen 3:15 being the first prophesy of the Savior.


Ok theres two figs leafs that branch out of the fig tree. A good leaf and a bad leaf.
No what you must do is understand that these verses you are quoting may not apply to the question at hand. This is why I bring up the fact that a lot of people misquote the Bible from not understanding the subject from the object..
As far as Jesus being cruxified..............it was from the beginning.
Here you quoted the crucifix even though you forgot to quote the rest where Gods going t o crush the head of satan (kill) from Genesis.

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel

Let me try to be more clear.

You want to argue that you are not responsible for the crucifixion of Christ but that Satan and Satan only is responsible. I present scriptures proving that many different groups are responsible, including us, and you tell me that the verses may not mean what they say because you are apparently THE AUTHORITY to translate and interpret scripture. Then you say that I am ignoring the fact that Satan is responsible when in fact I listed the scriptures showing Satan and his spiritual kingdom are responsible.

My original study included this!!!


We know that the first promise of the Redeemer appears back in Genesis 3:15.

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

I proved different entities are responsible, including Satan, and you respond back that no one but Satan is because verses don't mean what they say, and then throw in that I didn't include Satan in that group. And you were quite arrogant about it, too.

[StackerKen]

Boy, We totally derailed this thread.

Maybe we should start a thread called, "Bible study and discussion"
???

I think that would be pretty cool.
:fish

[KumbayaMan]

Wow... Am I going to re-derail the thread???
I'm sorry for the delay in my replies...
Not sure why you all chose only to dance around on the periphery of my point but here goes....





I will say with all honesty that I have not watched the videos and am reluctant to do so because of the apparent dis-info this guy propagates.

I really dont want to hijack this thread but feel the man in this video deserves a very critical second look.

But do you feel the man in this video deserves a critical first look?


and am reluctant to do so because of the apparent dis-info this guy propagates.


Are you afraid you may be swayed by a viewpoint that is unfamiliar to you? How would you know if it is dis-info if you are reluctant to listen to it? One has to be open-minded if they are searching for truth, no?


Green Bear - Did you read the middle part of my post (along with the article)?
Do you now have any questions / thoughts regarding this mans (supposed) past, his true identity, his agenda, his credibility????

BTW... I did watch the first video and may (or may not) watch the rest....
I was going to address some of my issues with the first vid but it's pretty clear I wont sway you.
I will say it was difficult for me to watch even the first video and the man clearly is pushing an agenda by what he chooses to talk about and what he clearly leaves out....





While it is good to be critical of the source, I think you also need to be critical of the critic of the source. I checked out the links and did not see any substantial evidence. The heaviest thing they had was "no registration as a tax-exempt" organization.... and poo-pooed it as a "church loop-hole". Guess what! The CHURCH is above the IRS and the CHURCH is above human government. The government has NO authority over the CHURCH and has no right to tax or require tax-filing-status.

I would suggest you watch the videos and look for flaws in the message.

Spec. - While I wholeheartedly agree with your thoughts on the CHURCH, IRS, tax filings, etc.... This is ancillary to my point. I think It is clear that I was not addressing the validity of his tax exemption status.
Again, what about the man's supposed alternate identity, agenda, credibility, etc...?







any "terrorist" who gets away with (and admits to) murdering Israelis would at the very least be tried for it. More likely he'd be hunted down and assassinated

you say "any "terrorist" who gets away with (and admits to) murdering Israelis"

That worried me too.

It was incredible to me that murderers like him deserve being listened to.

Once I asked myself "am I not "terrorist" myself when admitting murdering God?"
His blood is on my hands, I killed Him with my deliberate rebellion.
Somebody had to die for that. He died, He took upon Himself.
I am responsible for death of God.
you, me, Arabs, Chinese, Indians, all humans are terrorists


God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God.
Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.




Sorry, but I was not speaking in metaphors and feel I was more than clear in my questions / assertions....
BTW I am clearly no terrorist (or murderer) and I suspect neither is Mr Shoebat...

But that was my original point now, wasn't it?

You all may be better at quoting scripture than I but I hope we're all looking for the same thing.... I feel this pretty much sums up my quest.

“And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened. (Luke 11:9-10)

KUMBAYA

[KumbayaMan]

Boy, We totally derailed this thread.

Maybe we should start a thread called, "Bible study and discussion"
???

I think that would be pretty cool.
:fish

looks like I have quite a bit more reading to do... I think it may actually do me more good to study the rest of this thread rather than watch the rest of those vids :oo-->

[StackerKen]

Im watching the video's right now.

Really cool thing in the 1st one is, He points out that God Uses "All things for Good"

Kinda gives you an answer for when folks ask "Why would a Good God create evil?"

Because God Uses evil for good :)

[Spectrism]

Great Stuff GB and Spectrism. Thanks

Spectrism I have a question though.

What do you get from this Verse in Jeremiah

Jeremiah 1:5

“ Before I formed you in the womb I knew you;
Before you were born I sanctified you;
I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”

Is that just that God Transcends time. and therefor can Know us before we are born?

Thanks in advance for your help :)


Thanks Ken! I forgot to address that and I meant to.

Yes- I think you are right. God has foreknown everything. How amazing it is for the Almighty to say to one- I knew you. Contrast this with the scariest verse in the bible-

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

If we pre-existed in heaven, why would God send our souls into dead bodies, destined to die of sin consequences? No, we are born into an enemy kingdom of fallen parents. We are born spirit-less and have a vacancy around our souls. This vacancy we try to fill with all sorts of things. Thus are we easily subject to addictions.

But our initial formation is in the flesh:
Psa 22:10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.
Psa 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.


When the Messiah met with His disciples before His ascension to heaven, He promised them the Comforter.
Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Recall that I said man's spirit died in the garden of Eden. That void is filled with the Spirit of God! For those who would be saved, we are brought into the family of God and His Spirit into us!

[Spectrism]

quoted from kumbaya dude=
Spec. - While I wholeheartedly agree with your thoughts on the CHURCH, IRS, tax filings, etc.... This is ancillary to my point. I think It is clear that I was not addressing the validity of his tax exemption status.
Again, what about the man's supposed alternate identity, agenda, credibility, etc...?

Right... what did they offer as evidence? I didn't see any. Sure, if the guy is playing a scam, let's get to it. But I did not see any evidence. What I did see of the critic, struck me as an anti-church bias. With no supporting evidence and a critic inclined against my camp, I could not put too much in that accusation.

[KumbayaMan]

quoted from kumbaya dude=
Spec. - While I wholeheartedly agree with your thoughts on the CHURCH, IRS, tax filings, etc.... This is ancillary to my point. I think It is clear that I was not addressing the validity of his tax exemption status.
Again, what about the man's supposed alternate identity, agenda, credibility, etc...?

Right... what did they offer as evidence? I didn't see any. Sure, if the guy is playing a scam, let's get to it. But I did not see any evidence. What I did see of the critic, struck me as an anti-church bias. With no supporting evidence and a critic inclined against my camp, I could not put too much in that accusation.


I (now) agree, regarding bias of my original link I but to kill the messenger....

While I have not vetted the biases of these. here a few other sites speeking to Mr Shoebat's exploits.... :oo-->

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Walid_Shoebat
http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/stories/2008/wndshoebat.html
http://dawudwalid.wordpress.com/2008/04/02/walid-shoebat-ex-terrorist-exposed-as-fraud/
http://www.spinprofiles.org/index.php/Walid_Shoebat

[greenbear]

Quote
It was the sin of mankind that nailed the Messiah to the tree.
Nope.................thats not how it went down Spec. What nailed Jesus to the cross was His profession of being the Son of God, not anybodies sin. Remember it was the Romans who nailed Jesus to the cross for professing to being the Son of God. Who was in the background demanding the soldiers to nail Jesus to the cross?
The sin started when Eve and then Adam partook of the tree of Knowledge of good and evil in Genesis. Before that they didnt know what was sin


Romans carried out the murder, but was there really a verdict of guilty because He called Himself the Son of God?

Mat 27:22 Pilate saith unto them, What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ? They all say unto him, Let him be crucified.
Mat 27:23 And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified.
Mat 27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
Mat 27:25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.





Quote
Those washed in the blood of Messiah are the cause of the crucifixion.
Again...............wrong. Those washed in the blood did not cause the crucifixion. How can the crux have happened if you have yet to wash your hands? This is aicken to the question if the egg came before the chicken. You make no sense at all.
Those washed in the blood have repented through Jesus instead of a blood sacrifice of an animal.


It was the mob of Jews who claimed the guilt at that scene. But it is all of us who caused the Messiah- the Word of God to become flesh and die for the lost.

Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

His joy was to save the lost. For that He gave up His own life.

Joh 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.


Joh 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.


Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.


The plain fact is this: if we did not sin, we would not need the blood sacrifice.





Amen.

[KumbayaMan]

How bout the credibility of this source???

http://www.jpost.com/Home/Article.aspx?id=96502 :-\

Sorry but the man is clearly a fraud...

(I removed some emoticons because they clearly didnt help with this post)

[greenbear]

Where you in that mob of jews Spect calling for the murder?
I know I was not. I was still up in Heaven waiting my turn on earth in the flesh for God to see who I was going to serve.
How about you?


This is basic theology and unfortunately we have gone outside the topic of this thread. I am surprised that someone calling himself 7th Trump would be so far from the truth. If you are outside the blood of Messiah, then you are lost in your sin.

If you think you pre-existed in heaven before incarnation, then you are bewitched by a strange spirit / cult.


These are the verses that came to my mind, or were brought to my mind, about the question of the preexistence of the soul. I have no formal Bible education, nor do I need one.



I know of no scriptures that teach the preexistence of the soul.

Some people try to use Jeremiah 1:5

Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

But God is omniscient, he knows everything, he is outside of time.

God knew of Jeremiah from eternity past, Jeremiah didn't exist from eternity past.

Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:


God breathed life into the first man and he became a living soul.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

That is the model. Body first, then it becomes a living soul. The life came from God, it didn't have previous existence.


The Lord says he forms the spirit of man within him. It is not pre-existent, he forms it within the body.

Zechariah 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.


God gives the breath of life and spirit to man when they are upon the earth.

Isaiah 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

[7th trump]

All of you forget that in Genesis God formed man to REpopulate the earth.
Theres nothing new under the sun even to the end days theres nothing new.................................nothing!
We were here before. Before satan rebelled convincing 1/3 of Gods children (you) to worship him while the rest didnt have time for God (to busy like now).
It was only His Elect who fought against satan inhis over throw in the first earth age.
The Elect are here now learning the 5th seal to witness against satan when hes kicked to earth for 5 months.

[JustMe]

I hesitate to jump in here on a thread, being new. But this thread is calling me in to give my view and perspective. First of all, let me say - honestly - that I am DEAF and, therefore, I cannot hear those videos.

However, I am familiar with Mr. Walid Shoebat. I've also read a book by another Muslim convert to Christianity. Let me say that websites that try to discredit Mr. Shoebat, by pointing out that he gives no contact information, are just looking for bones to pick. You see, if you were a former Muslim terrorist, would YOU give contact information for yourself? It's like inviting the terrorists to do you in.

A very brief background. I'm a Christian. I will post my "testimony" a bit later, since it'll need to be a bit more than a "brief" one. Sorry about that - but my life has been very unusual.

A dear and good Christian friend of mine has actually been to see Mr. Walid Shoebat in person. This is a friend that I know in person for many years, after initially meeting on the internet. Here is what he said, regarding Walid Shoebat, when I asked his opinion:



I have listened and watched just about all of the videos on Youtube concerning Walid Shoebat. I went to the Waukesha EXPO on November 7th, 2009 and actually witnessed his live presentation. There were metal detectors placed at the doors to check guests for weapons, etc. WVCY sponsored the entire event. It was 2 hours of him telling his story and 30-45 minutes of question/answer by him and the audience.

I would be willing to go out on a limb and say he is ‘legit’.

The videos on him shown on Youtube by his detractors are always uploaded by people of middle-eastern backgrounds. They seem to almost always be Muslim. All they do is say he is a liar and Muslims are not
at war with America and they worship the same God and we need to stop listening to people like this.

I tend not to believe them when they say these things... being peaceful seems to go directly against what I see daily. I do not see very many 68 year old ladies blowing up planes. Nor do I see them burning churches or removing the upper portion of humans with swords. I know for a fact that they do not worship the same God as we do and they believe Jesus was no more than a great prophet.

I think they are incorrect if they are trying to indicate that Walid Shoebat is a bad person.

If they simply listened to ALL of what Shoebat says and actually look up the quotes from both the Bible and the Koran they would see that this guy is telling the truth and he really is a Christian convert. If he is lying, I would love to hear someone defend his point of view... with references and truth, and not simply speak from internal feelings.



Additionally, you need to know a tiny bit of background about me. I was married to a Muslim for 6 years. I lived in the Middle East (Jordan) for 3 months. I learned some Arabic - although I've forgotten a lot of it. I have seen Islam from the inside - as well as from the outside. I've seen the Middle Eastern culture. I've seen how women act and how they are treated there. And I saw firsthand, how my husband had learned from the belligerent example of his father, how to treat a woman.

I lived in patience and inner despair for 6 years with that man. I was afraid of him. He wasn't following even his own religion. He said that most Muslims are just "normal" Muslims and they don't follow strict rules.

He went to bars and got drunk, he came home and "raped" me - and yes, forced sex - even from your husband, is RAPE.

Anyway, I finally divorced him. I had to. I would have forfeited my own life, if I hadn't. I couldn't live like that. He was never home and he was always with women anyway. When he came home with a sexual disease, that cemented my decision to divorce him. He didn't want to PAY for a divorce!!! I knew that, if I didn't divorce him, he could just leave the country and disappear - marry another woman (hey! they can have up to 4 wives - and he used to threaten to take me to Jordan and marry other wives). I'd never be able to divorce him because divorce in my state is only by consentual agreement that the marriage is "irrepairable." It definitely was.

Anyway - I sacrificed a LOT to bring him here to the USA. And when I did, his treatment of me was so horrible that I was ashamed to tell anybody. I thought it was MY fault - I married the wrong man. I didn't enter into it as a Christian.

Shortly before our divorce, when we were separated, he was in a very, very bad auto accident. He had to have 116 stitches to his face... and became blind in one eye. He was very fortunate to be alive. If you'd seen the car (it was totalled) you would have been amazed that he survived. They told him he should be DEAD. He was, of course, driving drunk. He hit a telephone pole at high speed and flew up into the air.

After that, he stopped drinking. And do you know what? I forgave him for everything. I told him that I forgave him and had no ill feelings towards him anymore. It's true. I just felt very sorry for him. At our divorce he cried - No, he SOBBED - the interpreter told me. He asked to see me after the divorce proceeding. And he said to me "You were always a good wife. I am sorry. I am sorry. The wrong is all mine."

He later told me that I was the most amazing example to him. He said that he saw what a TRULY good human being was - and that he had never seen it before in his life. I'm not saying this to give praise to myself... but just as a truthful background.

I started to send him some things about my Christian faith. And he said that he never saw faith like that before.

Later I will post my testimony - so that you will know from where I am speaking and what my life has been like. I always hope that I can be a bright light shining in the lives of those around me. I'm not perfect, but I truly seek to do the right thing and not only speak the WORDS of my faith - but to show by my ACTIONS.

I've been to Islamic centers (mosques) before - I've met Imams (Islamic leaders - the Muslim version of a minister), I've studied Islam, I've read the Qur'an... and my faith in Jesus Christ and the Bible are stronger than ever.

Let me say this. ONLY Christianity has a Savior that DIED for ALL THE SINS OF THE ENTIRE WORLD (WHETHER THEY APPROPRIATE THAT SACRIFICE OR NOT), was buried, and rose again. Muhammed never died for anybody. I bet that anyone who tries to discredit him has NEVER seen Walid Shoebat in person! I hope that this will be helpful. Islam is not a religion of PEACE. Sure, there are many Muslims who don't take the aggressive suicide-bombing stance. They, unfortunately, believe Islam is a religion of peace, and that they can just state their disagreement with such extremists, and continue to insist that Islam is a religion of peace. Sorry, but that doesn't fly - for all Those "peaceful" Muslims. I lived with a Muslim and he was anything but "peaceful." They don't have a religion where they are at peace and where they are assured of their salvation. The only way they feel "assured" is to "guarantee" their place in heaven (with 72 virgins) by murdering other people and forfeiting their own shameful life.

Basing your religion on a man who RAPED and then "married" girls as young as 9, who made it OK to bring out such beastly sexuality, that a man could not be happy and satisfied with one wife, and a man who promotes VIOLENCE in the name of religion - is NOT a "prophet" that I would ever follow.

Yes, I wore a headcovering while I was in Jordan. It was the only way to gain respect there and not be seen as a filthy American girl (even though I'd been a VIRGIN when I first married! this was a 2nd marriage). That was as far as I would go to "respect" their religion. It was more of a CULTURAL respect.

Muslims who convert to Christianity face a genuine pallapable danger. From that point onward, they are never safe. Their own family will most-likely disown them. Friends and neighbors will seek to kill them.

They are seen to be a DISGRACE. Muslims don't want the testimonies of new Christians that used to be Muslims, because it exposes too much that is faulty about their own faith.

They have NO assurance of salvation!! They live and DIE in their sins. The only way they can get to heaven is to detonate themselves, killing a bunch of non-Muslims, assuring them a glorious place in heaven, with 72 virgins. How is that a religion of PEACE? How is that a way to live? Or a way to DIE.........

When the Muslim is called forth to eternal life - He will face Jesus Christ, on the Great White Throne - and they will have the "books" opened in front of them. These are the records of their entire life. All of their misdeeds (sins). Then the book of LIFE will be opened - and their name, not being recorded there... they will spend eternity SOMEWHERE... and it won't be in Heaven with 72 virgins, unfortunately. NO ONE should wish for another human being to perish, eternally. My prayer is for ALL to have eternal life, by knowing the TRUE PEACE that is with Jesus Christ alone.

[KumbayaMan]

However, I am familiar with Mr. Walid Shoebat. I've also read a book by another Muslim convert to Christianity. Let me say that websites that try to discredit Mr. Shoebat, by pointing out that he gives no

contact information, are just looking for bones to pick. You see, if you were a former Muslim terrorist, would YOU give contact information for yourself? It's like inviting the terrorists to do you in.

Did you read the articles I posted in the links? It's not just questions regarding contact info.
One of the points made is he is / was NOT a Muslim Terrorist.

This man has an agenda which has nothing to do with his "conversion" to Christianity or otherwise.
IMHO he has no credibility what so ever....

BTW I'm sorry to hear about your marriage and hope your in a better place now. Wecome...

[greenbear]

Welcome, sister! Thank you for your great post. I'm so glad to have you on this Forum.

[KumbayaMan]

This man has no credibility what so ever....


Kumbaya, I understand what you are saying,

yet it does not completely negate what WS is conveying.

God can make a donkey speak ( or ex-vampire ).

The donkey would have had even less credibility than Mr. WT for the World.

Question is whether the message rings true with the rest of the Bible.

Still, thanks for the warning.


Yes... The devil will tell you 90% truth, it's the other 10% we have to worry about, right?

I guess I've made my point... Still not sure why the OP has chosen to reply to everyone but me in this thread...?
I never intended to Pi$$ anyone off... :dunno

[greenbear]

This man has no credibility what so ever....


Kumbaya, I understand what you are saying,

yet it does not completely negate what WS is conveying.

God can make a donkey speak ( or ex-vampire ).

The donkey would have had even less credibility than Mr. WT for the World.

Question is whether the message rings true with the rest of the Bible.

Still, thanks for the warning.


Yes... The devil will tell you 90% truth, it's the other 10% we have to worry about, right?

I guess I've made my point... Still not sure why the OP has chosen to reply to everyone but me in this thread...?
I never intended to Pi$$ anyone off... :dunno


I posted to you in post #23, Kumbaya. And it was not an angry post! Why are you accusing me of having some emotional response of one kind or another towards you? I find that strange.

[Horn]

How bout the credibility of this source???

http://www.jpost.com/Home/Article.aspx?id=96502 :-\

Sorry but the man is clearly a fraud...

(I removed some emoticons because they clearly didnt help with this post)


I thought I heard him say that he was a bigot, who was personally delivered 2000yrs. of salvation?

[KumbayaMan]

This man has no credibility what so ever....


Kumbaya, I understand what you are saying,

yet it does not completely negate what WS is conveying.

God can make a donkey speak ( or ex-vampire ).

The donkey would have had even less credibility than Mr. WT for the World.

Question is whether the message rings true with the rest of the Bible.

Still, thanks for the warning.


Yes... The devil will tell you 90% truth, it's the other 10% we have to worry about, right?

I guess I've made my point... Still not sure why the OP has chosen to reply to everyone but me in this thread...?
I never intended to Pi$$ anyone off... :dunno


I posted to you in post #23, Kumbaya. And it was not an angry post! Why are you accusing me of having some emotional response of one kind or another towards you? I find that strange.


GB... I'm not accusing you of anything (emotional or otherwise) and I am not your adversary.... :-[
Yes, you did respond to my initial post but not the substance of my point... or any of the rest...?

Why the silence? I'm not trying to bait you, just wondering? :conf:

[KumbayaMan]

As I said before, I made my point regarding his agenda. I guess It should not detract from the scriptures brought up by you all in the rest of the thread 8)
Peace

[StackerKen]

Welcome to the forum Justme.

G2rad; You made a good point

Question is whether the message rings true with the rest of the Bible.

We are to test all things and hold fast to the good stuff.

I heard some good stuff in those videos.

I didn't hear anything in those videos that didn't line up with scripture.

We do need to careful who we listen to. We need to check to see if what they are teaching lines up with the bible.

7th can you tell us where you are learning this?


All of you forget that in Genesis God formed man to REpopulate the earth.
Theres nothing new under the sun even to the end days theres nothing new.................................nothing!
We were here before. Before satan rebelled convincing 1/3 of Gods children (you) to worship him while the rest didnt have time for God (to busy like now).
It was only His Elect who fought against satan inhis over throw in the first earth age.
The Elect are here now learning the 5th seal to witness against satan when hes kicked to earth for 5 months.

7th;
Who taught you these things?
Where do you see it in the bible?

[7th trump]

So it reads that ILLi19 is 301's sock puppet.
What.....................................forgot you were posting under Ill19 there 301.
Thanks for letting us know who you are.

[7th trump]

Welcome to the forum Justme.

G2rad; You made a good point

Question is whether the message rings true with the rest of the Bible.

We are to test all things and hold fast to the good stuff.

I heard some good stuff in those videos.

I didn't hear anything in those videos that didn't line up with scripture.

We do need to careful who we listen to. We need to check to see if what they are teaching lines up with the bible.

7th can you tell us where you are learning this?


All of you forget that in Genesis God formed man to REpopulate the earth.
Theres nothing new under the sun even to the end days theres nothing new.................................nothing!
We were here before. Before satan rebelled convincing 1/3 of Gods children (you) to worship him while the rest didnt have time for God (to busy like now).
It was only His Elect who fought against satan inhis over throw in the first earth age.
The Elect are here now learning the 5th seal to witness against satan when hes kicked to earth for 5 months.

7th;
Who taught you these things?
Where do you see it in the bible?

The Bible Ken.................its right there in black and white my friend.
I'm surprised it hasnt yet been reworded to keep the everyone off guard.

[greenbear]

7th, I've seen dozens of comments from you that you don't have the chapter and verse, and even a few promises to provide chapter and verse.

The closest you came was in a response to State of Jefferson, I believe, where you said that the manuscripts clearly show these doctrines of yours and that you were surprised they weren't in the Bible. Of course, GIM is shut down so I can't provide the link.

The word "replenish" does indicate that someone was here before. The entirety of Scripture (the 66 books of the Bible) testifies that it was not man.

I am a proponent of the gap theory, I believe there is a gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

I also believe Lucifer's throne was in the "rock garden" on the earth before his fall.

So, you are correct that the word "replenish" cannot be swept under the rug. Some things are not yet known with certainly, we can only conjecture. However, the Biblical Facts that Adam was the first man, and Eve is the mother of all living, cannot be swept under the rug in order to accommodate some errant interpretation of Gen 1:28.

[Spectrism]

All of you forget that in Genesis God formed man to REpopulate the earth.
Theres nothing new under the sun even to the end days theres nothing new.................................nothing!
We were here before. Before satan rebelled convincing 1/3 of Gods children (you) to worship him while the rest didnt have time for God (to busy like now).
It was only His Elect who fought against satan inhis over throw in the first earth age.
The Elect are here now learning the 5th seal to witness against satan when hes kicked to earth for 5 months.



Our friend seems to think there was a previous human age based on this word: replenish. Unfortunately, this is just a misconstruction of a cultish belief system, spun out of fantasy.

H4390
מלא מלא
mâlê' mâlâ'
maw-lay', maw-law'
A primitive root, to fill or (intransitively) be full of, in a wide application (literally and figuratively): - accomplish, confirm, + consecrate, be at an end, be expired, be fenced, fill, fulfil, (be, become, X draw, give in, go) fully (-ly, -ly set, tale), [over-] flow, fulness, furnish, gather (selves, together), presume, replenish, satisfy, set, space, take a [hand-] full, + have wholly.


Gen 1:28 And God430 blessed1288 them, and God430 said559 unto them, Be fruitful,6509 and multiply,7235 and replenish4390 (853) the earth,776 and subdue3533 it: and have dominion7287 over the fish1710 of the sea,3220 and over the fowl5775 of the air,8064 and over every3605 living thing2416 that moveth7430 upon5921 the earth.776

[7th trump]

All of you forget that in Genesis God formed man to REpopulate the earth.
Theres nothing new under the sun even to the end days theres nothing new.................................nothing!
We were here before. Before satan rebelled convincing 1/3 of Gods children (you) to worship him while the rest didnt have time for God (to busy like now).
It was only His Elect who fought against satan inhis over throw in the first earth age.
The Elect are here now learning the 5th seal to witness against satan when hes kicked to earth for 5 months.




Our friend seems to think there was a previous human age based on this word: replenish. Unfortunately, this is just a misconstruction of a cultish belief system, spun out of fantasy.

H4390
מלא מלא
mâlê' mâlâ'
maw-lay', maw-law'
A primitive root, to fill or (intransitively) be full of, in a wide application (literally and figuratively): - accomplish, confirm, + consecrate, be at an end, be expired, be fenced, fill, fulfil, (be, become, X draw, give in, go) fully (-ly, -ly set, tale), [over-] flow, fulness, furnish, gather (selves, together), presume, replenish, satisfy, set, space, take a [hand-] full, + have wholly.


Gen 1:28 And God430 blessed1288 them, and God430 said559 unto them, Be fruitful,6509 and multiply,7235 and replenish4390 (853) the earth,776 and subdue3533 it: and have dominion7287 over the fish1710 of the sea,3220 and over the fowl5775 of the air,8064 and over every3605 living thing2416 that moveth7430 upon5921 the earth.776
Whats gonna be your reaction when I show you chapter and verse there are three earth ages?
The first is millions of years old if not billions of years old. The 2nd is about 8000 years old where we all get a chance in the flesh. And the third starts with the millenium.
And which concordence is this from?

[greenbear]

How bout the credibility of this source???

http://www.jpost.com/Home/Article.aspx?id=96502 :-\

Sorry but the man is clearly a fraud...

(I removed some emoticons because they clearly didnt help with this post)


I read your article, and others like it. I've read a hundred hit pieces on a number of different people. When I see hit pieces on someone I make it a habit to take a closer look at what they are saying because it is probably something that 'someone" powerful doesn't want you to know. This guy has a lot of enemies, mostly Muslim, ergo, lots of hits.

Hit pieces are always the same; vague allegations supported by unnamed, biased, or paid sources, the twisting and distortion of facts and events, mountains made out of mole hills, historical revisionism, ad nauseum. I listen to what a person says, not what other people say about him. Filtering out noise is key to finding the truth.

In my experience, Muslims do not behave in an honest or honorable manner because they have an agenda to spread not only their religion, but also their political, economic, and social system to the rest of the world, which would patently reject it if they knew the truth about what it really is. They are taught to lie to non-Muslims to bring about the subjugation of the entire world to Islam by trickery first, then by violence.

I have compassion for Muslims because their minds are blinded to the truth. They follow a mere man called Mohammad, but what did he ever do for them? He gives them no assurance of salvation, he calls them to blow themselves up to murder his enemies, he taught piracy by example, he made their women low-class sexual slaves, their female children subjects of pedophilia. Muslims will follow the example set by their prophet of allah the ancient moon god who is none other than Satan himself. Muhammad is dead and buried, and his sexual sins and his sins of violence and murder are still with him where he is. Muslims have nothing but a dead prophet, and the enemy of their souls as their God.

I want Muslims to be as Walid Shoebat. I want them to lay claim to Jesus of Nazareth, the eternal Son of God, who shed his blood on the cross to pay for their sins.

[Book]

Now, this story may go over with the common anti-Muslim Christian (Zionist) churchgoer but anyone with critical thinking abilities would realize that any "terrorist" who gets away with (and admits to) murdering Israelis would at the very least be tried for it. More likely he'd be hunted down and assassinated by the Mossad...I really dont want to hijack this thread but feel the man in this video deserves a very critical second look.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QKxHINgloA&

They watched too many Hollywood propaganda movies produced by Jews...lol.