Two current wars lost?

[DualCarbon]

Two current wars lost?

I came to the realization in my own mind that the US is going to 'lose' both wars in Iraq and Afganistan in the near future. From reading some commentators (e.g. Celente and Faber), they say the 'government will take us into another war.' I think we'll lose at least one of these two existing wars before then. The US will not find a stable pro-US potentate that will neoliberalize (i.e. open) their economy to our advantage. Any local ally the US can find will switch allegiances or be deposed. A fall of Saigon example may even happen; evacuation under pressure. The bases/embassies there will not be defendable.

*This is a new era. It is not early 2000s, and we are much weaker. How much weaker? Let's use the price of gold in dollar terms since early 2000s as an estimate (1/4 as powerful as before, 1/5?). Basically, the US has taken too long to pull off these colonizations.

*The US certainly cannot fund the wars anymore. The debt is unsustainable, and comical actually.

*These countries could not easily be colonized by the West at the height of its power advantage. The US certainly cannot do it now.

*Too many other countries in the region want the US not succeed there (Russia, Middle East countries, Pakistan, China). Any of these other countries merely need provide a small amount more assistance to the non-US forces to kill alot of US troops. When this assistance increases we'll see low flying US aircraft getting shot down and local US allies switching sides, fleeing, or other.

It seems the treasury auctions and stock market can be propped up for a long time. The first big cracks might just be these existing wars going very badly after all.

[Rebel Yarr]

It was a lose/lose from the start. You can't stand alone in any political arena - I am not sure what the agenda is/was if it wasn't to straight up ensure the downfall of the USofA.

[I am me, I am free]

Considering the wholesale rate the MIC is 'winning the hearts and minds' of the indigs in Afghanistan, I'd say they've already lost - it's only a matter of time before it becomes apparent to the 'Merikan zombies.

[techguy]

A prelude I think... How many GI's died for NO GAIN WHATSOEVER?????

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36511088/ns/world_news-the_new_york_times

>>snip....

KORANGAL OUTPOST, Afghanistan - The last American soldier left the base here Wednesday, surrounded by tall cedar trees and high mountains, a place that came to be called the Valley of Death.

The near daily battles here were won, but almost always leaving wounded or dead behind. There were never enough soldiers to crush the insurgency, and after four years of trying, it became clear that there was not much worth winning in this sparsely populated valley.

Closing the Korangal Outpost, a powerful symbol of some of the Afghan war’s most ferocious fights, and a potential harbinger of America’s retreat, is a tacit admission that putting the base there in the first place was a costly mistake.

>> SNIP.

[iOWNme]

The US Military has never won a war.


Because they are never meant to.

[peachesinfla]

It was a lose/lose from the start. You can't stand alone in any political arena - I am not sure what the agenda is/was if it wasn't to straight up ensure the downfall of the USofA.




Follow the money. Somebody is raking in the dough while kids are killed.

[Book]

It was a lose/lose from the start. You can't stand alone in any political arena - I am not sure what the agenda is/was if it wasn't to straight up ensure the downfall of the USofA.


Overextend and bankrupt the USA was and is the agenda.

:oo-->

[techguy]

It was a lose/lose from the start. You can't stand alone in any political arena - I am not sure what the agenda is/was if it wasn't to straight up ensure the downfall of the USofA.




Follow the money. Somebody is raking in the dough while kids are killed.


Bingo....

[I am me, I am free]

It's about much more than just raking in the dough, these jokers think they are human gods who get to lord over everyone who isn't one of them.

[peachesinfla]

It's about much more than just raking in the dough, these jokers think they are human gods who get to lord over everyone who isn't one of them.



Yeah there's that too but if you follow the money you'll find the same suspects.

[DualCarbon]

For awhile now I have been dreading/expecting any week an impending:

*second big drop in the stock market
*failed treasury auction
*massive food/fuel price inflation
*big increase in unemployment
*large interest rate jump
*huge increase in silver price (ok, maybe dreaming here)

But now I think the first thing will be an "unexpected" defeat in Iraq or Afganistan causing loss of confidence.
Historically, things may almost have to work this way (i.e. a military defeat first) - or happen in traditional order so to speak.
Maybe, for the above economic things to happen, they must be preceeded by military loss, or they wont happen. But these bad economic things have to happen as we can see the published economic statistics.

[mamboni]

To participate in war is to lose at the start. No one wins a war – certainly not the fighting man or the working people paying war taxes. That said, the US, like Rome, is experiencing declining marginal utility of conquest and expansion (ratio of war booty divided by debts incurred). All the wars since the Civil War have been about expansion to exploit surrounding territories and enriching the weapons makers and the bankers. This can only continue until the growing debt and its service completely consume all war booty and start consuming capital assets. We are at that point now. But we persist in prosecuting war out of bad habit and because we are incapable of doing anything else. Our economy has been hollowed out and hobbled with a massive lodestone of unpayable debt principal. America is a zombie economy. The bankers and multinational corporations are now squeezing the last wealth out of the American people. Their tools are war and imperial overextension. When the bond market collapses and the US dollar is toast, the profiteers will be safely far off in Galt’s Gulch noshing on bagels and lox while the bewildered and impoverished Americans try to understand how they were so thoroughly looted and enslaved.

[Ponce]

A war based on lies and deception is a loosing war..........those two invasions were lost well before they began.........in congress.

[iOWNme]

To participate in war is to lose at the start. No one wins a war – certainly not the fighting man or the working people paying war taxes. That said, the US, like Rome, is experiencing declining marginal utility of conquest and expansion (ratio of war booty divided by debts incurred). All the wars since the Civil War have been about expansion to exploit surrounding territories and enriching the weapons makers and the bankers. This can only continue until the growing debt and its service completely consume all war booty and start consuming capital assets. We are at that point now. But we persist in prosecuting war out of bad habit and because we are incapable of doing anything else. Our economy has been hollowed out and hobbled with a massive lodestone of unpayable debt principal. America is a zombie economy. The bankers and multinational corporations are now squeezing the last wealth out of the American people. Their tools are war and imperial overextension. When the bond market collapses and the US dollar is toast, the profiteers will be safely far off in Galt’s Gulch noshing on bagels and lox while the bewildered and impoverished Americans try to understand how they were so thoroughly looted and enslaved.


Well freaking said my friend.....

[Heimdhal]

...All the wars since the Civil War have been about expansion to exploit surrounding territories...


One could argue that EVERY American war was about the same, including the revolution. One could even well argue that all but a handfull of wars throughout human history have been about the same, and handfull may be over generous.


You make very good points Doc, as always. Thanks for the post.

[FunnyMoney]

War is a business. All of the posts on this thread reflect the truth. The "winning" or the "loss" that awaits, or simply the eternal continuation of the wars is really a side topic for mass consumption, and may end up being significant to the next step as suggested in the OP, or may be mostly without much importance as several members have already posted. Of course, to the dead, their families and the perpetual servitude of the many, not to mention the lost wealth and continued taxation/enslavement of people, it is dearly important.

What matters to those who control these things is the war business. There is money to be made before, after and during the wars.

Only when the word taxation becomes the most vulgar to the ear, and is looked upon as exactly the same as devil worship will any of this change. Wars will be won and lost, but they will never end, until after taxes do. (Include fiat money as a form of taxation)