The war on Christians begins

[dysgenic]

Army Report Says Christians Threaten U.S. Foreign Policy


Chuck Baldwin
NewsWithViews.com
April 15, 2010

Army Report A Precursor To Christian Persecution?

Last Friday, I told readers of this column that I had come across a very disturbing government report and that I would be exposing that report during my Sunday address this past Sunday morning. I did exactly that, and anyone wishing to see an archived video of that address can do so by using this link (the video should be uploaded by this weekend)




According to Major Stuckert, the belief in Christ’s Second Coming makes us vulnerable to America’s adversaries.

The report’s header reads, “Strategic Implications of American Millennialism, A Monograph by MAJOR Brian L. Stuckert, U.S. Army. This monograph was defended by the degree candidate on 01 May 2008 and approved by the monograph director and reader named below. Approved by: Timothy Challans, Ph.D., Monograph Director; Robert Taylor, COL, MI, Monograph Reader; Stefan J. Banach, COL, IN, Director, School of Advanced Military Studies; Robert F. Baumann, Ph.D., Director, Graduate Degree Programs.” The School of Advanced Military Studies, United States Army Command and General Staff College, Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, produced the report.

Here is the TABLE OF CONTENTS:

Why Millennialism Matters
The Role of Civil Religion and Culture
Millennial Theologies in America
Post-Millennialism and the Founding of America
Civil War, World War and the Rise of Pre-Millennialism
Israel, Nuclear War and the Last Days
Contemporary Pre-Millennialism in the American Electorate
Contemporary Pre-Millennialism and American Culture
The Holy Land and Armageddon: U.S. Policy in the Middle East
Anti-Christ, Gog, Magog, and Armies From the East
Conclusions and Recommendations
Bibliography

Remember, this is not a Christian university report or even a secular university’s religion department report, but rather a report written by an active duty Army major (who is now stationed in Afghanistan, I am told) for one of America’s war colleges. Before analyzing this report, here are some questions to ponder. Whose brainchild was this report? Did the major select the topic himself or did a superior assign it to him? To whom exactly was the report distributed? How was the report used? What are the interconnections between this report and the MIAC and Department of Homeland Security reports that draw similar conclusions? And perhaps the biggest question is, What does this report portend for government action in the future?

When Major Stuckert speaks of millennialism, he is referring to the Biblical doctrine of Eschatology–specifically, the Second Coming of Jesus Christ to the earth to institute a 1,000-year (millennial) reign. He recognizes some of the nuances of this doctrine in his study, most notably post-millennialism and pre-millennialism. His report is heavily focused on pre-millennialism, however.

At this point, I feel it is necessary to make this observation: whether one is a post-millennialist or a pre-millennialist, the fact that we Christians believe in the literal return of Jesus Christ to the earth to establish His Kingdom puts us in the same boat, as far as the ramifications of Major Stuckert’s report–and similar reports–are concerned. We Christians need to recognize that, as far as the Stuckerts of this world are concerned, because we believe the Bible and we believe in the literal return of Christ, we are considered an enemy. We can disagree with one another all we want to about whether there is a Rapture (and if there is one, when it will occur), whether Christ will return before or after a millennial kingdom takes place, and scores of other theological differences, but none of that is important to the events at hand: there is a growing sense among many governmental and military leaders in America that Bible-believing Christians are an enemy that must be marginalized, warned about, watched, and even controlled. And it does not matter to a tinker’s dam to these Machiavellians whether one is a post-millennialist or a pre-millennialist. If we believe the Bible and believe that Jesus is coming again, they consider us “dangerous.” And we Christians better wake up to this stark reality, stop fighting each other, and focus on working together to preserve our liberties!

And one more early observation: there is an eerie and uncanny connection between the verbiage and spirit of Stuckert’s report and the now-infamous MIAC and Homeland Security reports. The timing, too, is significant. The MIAC and Homeland Security reports were produced shortly after Major Stuckert’s report was produced. A coincidence? Not on your life!

Here are some excerpts from Stuckert’s report:

“Millennialism has great explanatory value, significant policy implications, and creates potential vulnerabilities that adversaries may exploit.” (Abstract, page iii.)

“These factors [results of millennial belief] can be problematic for any military leader or planner attempting to achieve U.S. Government policy objectives through strategy, operations and programs.” (Abstract, page iv.)

Notice that from the very outset of this report, Stuckert asserts that Christians who believe in the Second Coming create circumstances or conditions that might be “problematic” for America’s military leaders. We Christians also create “potential vulnerabilities” that America’s enemies may “exploit,” according to Stuckert. Furthermore, Stuckert laments that we Christians may even interfere with “U.S. Government policy objectives.”

Pray tell, exactly what are those “U.S. Government policy objectives” that Christians might prove to be “problematic” for? And is Major Stuckert suggesting that those Christian military officers currently serving in the US armed forces are somehow “problematic” to “U.S. Government policy objectives”? And do these same Christian officers make America “vulnerable” to our enemies? Is he suggesting that military officers in the US armed forces who believe in the Second Coming of Jesus Christ be expunged from military service, because of their beliefs?

As one will observe when reading the 61-page treatise, Major Stuckert, with a broad brush, paints millennialist Christians as being serious problems for America’s foreign policy and for “U.S. Government policy objectives,” and that we must be dealt with; but he offers no details on what, exactly, should be done. Or if he did, that part of his treatise is not a matter of public record.

More quotes:

“The impact of American millennial religious ideas on U.S. Government policy will add to strategic hubris, compel increasingly reckless international action, and continue to over-commit the military in ways the Nation cannot afford.” (Page 1)

Again, notice that Christians who believe in Christ’s return add to pride, recklessness, and war. Good grief! I suppose that we Christians are also responsible for the escalating price of gas and oil too–and maybe even global warming!

Stuckert continues:

“First, millennial thought and its policy implications may create strategic transparency that affords adversaries an advantage in decision-making. Second, an understanding of American millennial thinking may provide adversaries with the means to manipulate American policy and subsequent action. Third, the enemy may exploit American millennialism to increase the fragility of and even disrupt coalitions. Fourth, adversaries may exploit American millennialism to demoralize or TERRORIZE joint forces and the American people. By recognizing these potential vulnerabilities, military leaders and planners may TAKE ACTION NOW to mitigate the effects.” (Page 2. Emphasis added.)

Dear reader, is the hair standing up on the back of your neck yet? If not, it should be!

According to Major Stuckert, the belief in Christ’s Second Coming makes us vulnerable to America’s adversaries. In fact, these adversaries (are they foreign or domestic? He doesn’t specify) might even exploit this belief to “TERRORIZE . . . the American people.” (Emphasis added.)

There’s that “T” word again! Do you now see the connection to the MIAC and Homeland Security reports? Is it all starting to make sense now? Because we believe in the literal return of Christ to the earth, do people such as Major Stuckert consider us to be potential terrorists?

And just what does Stuckert mean by the statement, “Military leaders and planners may take action now to mitigate the effects”? Does he propose that we Christians be rounded up and put in all these FEMA camps (that don’t exist)? Just how does he plan for the US military to “mitigate” the effects of us Christians? This statement is downright chilling!

In this report, Major Stuckert specifically mentions the holiness and Pentecostal churches; as well as the Assemblies of God; non-denominational churches; and Independent and Southern Baptists. Again, anyone who believes in the Second Coming of Christ is targeted in this report. According to Stuckert, “Millennialism actually refers to any system of belief or interpretation that employs a literal thousand years, or chiliad, in reading and applying Revelation 20:1-7.” (Page 9)

Stuckert even went so far as to say that Christian “mission work, especially overseas, [has] significant implications for U.S. foreign policy.” (Page 27)

A d v e r t i s e m e n t
I bet that when you folks make that financial donation to your church’s foreign missions program you have no idea that you are causing significant (negative) implications for US foreign policy. Well, Stuckert thinks you are.

Stuckert also berates Millennialists for “[driving] the U.S. further from the U.N. in the near future since many pre-millennialists have to come to view that body as a platform for the Anti-Christ.” He went on to say, “American pre-millennialists will also feel increasingly threatened by the E.U. in coming years.” And, “Pre-millennial interpretations of biblical prophecy that predict the emergence of a one-world government led by an anti-Christ causes distrust and even antagonism toward organizations like the United Nations, the World Trade Organization, the European Union, NAFTA and OPEC.” (Page 52)

In other words, folks, Stuckert is greatly chagrined that we Christians do not, and will not, accept the push toward global government being orchestrated by institutions such as the UN, the EU, et al. He feels that because we oppose NAFTA, GATT, the WTO, the FTAA, and the overall NEW WORLD ORDER agenda, we are “problematic” and must be “mitigated.”

Stuckert goes on to blame Christians for “problems for relations between the U.S. and Russia” (Page 53), problems in the Middle East and China (Page 56), as well as coming “global disaster.” (Page 55)

Major Stuckert then makes an incredible admission on page 58. He said, “War is primarily about politics. While geography and technology play a role, in order to be successful military leaders must be able to see the political goals as clearly as possible. Because of the influence of pre-millennialism, it can be difficult for military leaders to see themselves and their government accurately and state policy goals objectively.”

What did he say? “War is primarily about politics”? I thought war was about defending the people and territory of the United States. I thought war was about protecting freedom and liberty. War is about politics? So that’s why our young men are fighting and dying in Iraq and Afghanistan? It’s all about politics? If so, whose politics? Major Stuckert’s? Barack Obama’s? George W. Bush’s? The CFR’s? The UN’s? Exactly whose politics is sending our sons and daughters to fight and die? The good major doesn’t say.

But did you catch that last sentence? “Because of the influence of pre-millennialism [and he could just as easily have said post-millennialism], it can be difficult for military leaders to see themselves and their government accurately and state policy goals objectively.”

Holy cow! Belief in the Second Coming blinds military leaders? They cannot see themselves or their government accurately? What the heck does this mean? Is Stuckert saying that because a military officer believes the Bible–believes in the return of Christ to the earth–he or she cannot see themselves and cannot “see” their government properly? Exactly what is it about his or her government that cannot be accurately seen? Maybe Stuckert means that because a Christian military officer believes in God, he or she cannot recognize government to be his or her god. Is that it, Major Stuckert? You want us all to see the US federal government as god?

On page 59, Stuckert accuses belief in millennialism of producing “pessimism and paranoia.” On the same page, he accuses people who believe in millennialism of causing a “predisposition toward pessimism in world affairs and a general worsening of international relations.”

Yeah! That’s right, Major! You devote 61 pages (and untold hours producing them) accusing Christians of bringing “global disaster” to the world, but we are the ones who are paranoid? If that isn’t the pot calling the kettle black, I don’t know what is.

On page 60, Stuckert blames Christians for having a “proclivity for clear differentiations between good, evil, right, and wrong [which] do not always serve us well in foreign relations or security policy.” Oh! Really?

Is Stuckert saying that there is no right and wrong in regard to America’s policies with foreign nations? Is he saying that there is no such thing as right and wrong in regard to security policies? Is Stuckert saying the US government should be able to do whatever it likes, regardless of right and wrong? Is he saying that anything done in the name of “security” is right, regardless of what it is? Is it right to lie to the American people, Mr. Stuckert? Is it right to violate the US Constitution? Is it right to murder? If there is no such thing as right and wrong, moral and immoral, in regard to the waging of war and other security matters, pray tell, what were those Nuremberg trials all about?

In researching this column, I found a WorldNetDaily report written by Bob Unruh on December 19, 2009. In his report, Unruh said that an Army spokesman “could not say whether any other writings ever had attacked a religious belief as Stuckert’s work.” That’s a good point. Where is the Army report that singles out people who embrace Islam, Judaism, Catholicism, or liberal Protestantism as being “problematic” to America’s foreign policy? Why is it that only people who embrace conservative Christianity, or fundamentalism/millennialism were singled out?

Unruh’s report also notes that “no study or article refuting” Stuckert’s report has been discovered. Therefore, absent a counterpoint, it might be accurate to conclude that Stuckert’s report has become de facto US government policy. It certainly does appear that the particulars of Stuckert’s report made their way to both the MIAC and DHS reports.

See Bob Unruh’s report here.

See Major Stuckert’s report here.

My Sunday address exposing Major Stuckert’s report will be uploaded to my web site later this week. When it is posted, it will be available to download and distribute. It will be titled, “Seeds of Christian Persecution Growing in the US.” Watch for it here.

[dysgenic]

http://www.infowars.com/army-report-says-christians-threaten-u-s-foreign-policy/

[Book]

http://www.nutritiondynamics.com/images2/john%20hagee.jpg

http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/301/images/Hagee%20Alert/hagee_aipac.jpg

Like this nutjob? "Christian Zionist" is an oxymoron. Israel Army's battle song is Onward Christian Soldiers ha ha.

[Ponce]

I far as I am concern the first shot was fired by "those" people when they cancelled Christmas........nothing is the same and nothing will be.

[Spectrism]

http://www.nutritiondynamics.com/images2/john%20hagee.jpg

http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/301/images/Hagee%20Alert/hagee_aipac.jpg

Like this nutjob? "Christian Zionist" is an oxymoron. Israel Army's battle song is Onward Christian Soldiers ha ha.


Off the top of your head, mind explaining what makes this guy a nutjob?

[Book]

Off the top of your head, mind explaining what makes this guy a nutjob?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWMmVIAtHAU

Let the nutjob explain it himself...lol.

:oo-->

http://www.jewsonfirst.org/images/hagee_mccain1.jpg

[Spectrism]

And how is he a nutjob because of that?

I happen to agree that Amerika is a nation facing judgment... and consequences for its choices. Nations will be protected or left to fend for themselves. Can anyone here say that Amerika is a righteous nation and that it deserves God's continued favor?

[Book]

And how is he a nutjob because of that?


http://gimmetruth.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/assess600.jpg

http://gazaholocaust.com/

http://gazaholocaust.com/2009/01/19/punishing-the-palestinians/

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article3459144.ece

You think Jesus wants you to help "Israel" bomb schools and apartment buildings to murder innocent Palestinians?

:oo-->

[DMac]

Hagee was a member of the Bush 2 team. He is also a multi millionaire. He defends Israel. He has openly called for war with Iran.

If you claim to be a follower of Christ and side with Hagee it's time for a reevaluation. It is also time to put down "Left Behind" and shut off the tv come Sunday morning.

[JDRock]

Right on DMAC!
the war against christians began by the jews in the book of acts....the protocols states CLEARLY; " We shall forbid Christ...we shall remove every last vestige of religion from the goyim"
look who was behind the removal of prayer and the bible from school...

[Book]

If you claim to be a follower of Christ and side with Hagee it's time for a reevaluation. It is also time to put down "Left Behind" and shut off the tv come Sunday morning.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irIXIy6hNc8

Here is an Israeli "settler" explaining it to Spectrism...lol.

:)

[steyr_m]

The war on Christians begins? It began long ago when the tribe started to immigrate here in large numbers.

[mick silver]

just other word for war on the people of this country

[Ponce]

Interesting that I don't see any Zionist assaulting our point of view.....could it be because we have freedom of speech at this site that they cannot do anything about?

[illumin19]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irIXIy6hNc8

Here is an Israeli "settler" explaining it to Spectrism...lol.

:)



Now now they're the chosen, so to some they can do whatever they want and they'll still lick the boot.........

'Parable of the wicked vinedresssers' rings a bell.

[saint]

Poor Kid.

Image how difficult it is to be intimidating with those little pubic curls flapping around his face.
I would have pissed myself laughing.

[Spectrism]

I find it interesting that the people who are NOT christians are so eager to destroy the Jews in defense of the christians, but when it comes time to protect the freedoms of christians, they are just freeking nutjobs.

I asked Book what was wrong and what I got for an answer was posts of other threads and anti-zionist stuff that did not apply. You cannot say that all of Israel is khazar or zionist any more than you can say that all of Amerika is the great satan (except that is what our muslim friends do).

ALL world governments are corrupt. All nations are infiltrated and controlled by the beast. If you find yourself hating the Jews with a passion, you are taking part in the last days of this world and you are aligning yourself with the beast governments.

[Book]

If you find yourself hating the Jews with a passion, you are taking part in the last days of this world and you are aligning yourself with the beast governments.


http://phelsten.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/gaza_kid_victim.jpg

Yeah ok...Jesus wants you to help Jews murder innocent Palestinian kids. You watch Hagee on teevee Sunday mornings and this is what he told you the Bible means. To hate and murder the innocent people in Palestine. If you say so Spectrism.

http://phelsten.wordpress.com/

:oo-->

[30pcsAg]

Off the top of your head, mind explaining what makes this guy a nutjob?


Off the top of my head, these are some reasons I think Hagee is a false prophet leading MANY astray:

Hagee claims Christ was not the Messiah.

Hagee claims Jews don’t need Christ for salvation because of an earlier covenant they are perfected by the law.

Hagee claims the Jews wanted Jesus to be their Messiah but he refused.

Hagee erected a wailing wall on his campus so his followers could pray in the manner of the Jews.

Hagee is a war monger and full of hate.

Hagee is an adulterer by the most basic definition.

Hagee is twice married (2nd time to his partner in adultery) but still fills the pulpit.

Hagee is gluttonous and lives an obscene life style.

Oh, and I must agree with BOOK that “Christian-Zionist” is an oxymoron.

Romans 10:12-13

For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

[philo beddoe]

http://www.nutritiondynamics.com/images2/john%20hagee.jpg

http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/301/images/Hagee%20Alert/hagee_aipac.jpg

Like this nutjob? "Christian Zionist" is an oxymoron. Israel Army's battle song is Onward Christian Soldiers ha ha.


Off the top of your head, mind explaining what makes this guy a nutjob?
Off the top of your head, why would you ask a question with such an easily identifiable answer?

[philo beddoe]

I find it interesting that the people who are NOT christians are so eager to destroy the Jews in defense of the christians, but when it comes time to protect the freedoms of christians, they are just freeking nutjobs.

I asked Book what was wrong and what I got for an answer was posts of other threads and anti-zionist stuff that did not apply. You cannot say that all of Israel is khazar or zionist any more than you can say that all of Amerika is the great satan (except that is what our muslim friends do).

ALL world governments are corrupt. All nations are infiltrated and controlled by the beast. If you find yourself hating the Jews with a passion, you are taking part in the last days of this world and you are aligning yourself with the beast governments.
what can I say? Your post is nothing but a bullshit lie.

[FunnyMoney]

While you will be able to find a lot of truth in the tactics. They are tactics nonetheless. They are symptom issues and their expansion or their removal will have zero impact in the big picture.

You might as well post a thread about the war on tibet or the war on libertarians. I am not saying there's no importance to your points. The suffering already inflicted and due to be inflicted is very significant and tragic. However, placing greater significance upon the demise of one group over another is in the end quite counterproductive. And the reality is that in every group, the evil and criminal ones usually do more damage to their own than to outsiders.

The wars waged upon any group are made possible by the corrupt, absolute power system. Until that syste is dismantled, the war on everyone will continue.

[greenbear]

Off the top of your head, mind explaining what makes this guy a nutjob?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWMmVIAtHAU

Let the nutjob explain it himself...lol.

:oo-->

http://www.jewsonfirst.org/images/hagee_mccain1.jpg




Amused,
John Hagee has some problems but what he said in your clip is the truth.

How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?

[Spectrism]

Yeah ok...Jesus wants you to help Jews murder innocent Palestinian kids. You watch Hagee on teevee Sunday mornings and this is what he told you the Bible means. To hate and murder the innocent people in Palestine. If you say so Spectrism.


Now that is just ridiculous Book! Are you so simple that you think along these lines? You seem to have a penchant for painting with wide brushes. Perhaps you might consider investing in some more precise, narrower thought brushes.

[Spectrism]

I find it interesting that the people who are NOT christians are so eager to destroy the Jews in defense of the christians, but when it comes time to protect the freedoms of christians, they are just freeking nutjobs.

I asked Book what was wrong and what I got for an answer was posts of other threads and anti-zionist stuff that did not apply. You cannot say that all of Israel is khazar or zionist any more than you can say that all of Amerika is the great satan (except that is what our muslim friends do).

ALL world governments are corrupt. All nations are infiltrated and controlled by the beast. If you find yourself hating the Jews with a passion, you are taking part in the last days of this world and you are aligning yourself with the beast governments.
what can I say? Your post is nothing but a bullsh*t lie.


Interesting. Let's see who is lying.

1. By your words then, either it is all christians who want to kill off the joos or the joo-haters also hate the christians. Hard to tell as you made a wide nasty accusation without details.

2. You saw written responses from Book beyond the posts of outside links to explain his contentions and allegations (which were not there).

3. You deny that all world governments are corrupt. Name a government in this world that is friendly to Israel. As this is a formational time, not all have gotten to the point of being ready to wage war against Israel... but that is coming.

You can harbor all the hate you choose Philo. When you want to spew it on people, they have the right to question where it comes from. If you find fault in what I say, at least have the courtesy to point out its fault with with corresponding truth.

[JDRock]

ALL world governments are corrupt. All nations are infiltrated and controlled by the beast. If you find yourself hating the Jews with a passion, you are taking part in the last days of this world and you are aligning yourself with the beast governments.


umm...i never have, or will HATE the jews.....but, the antichrist AND the false prophet are BOTH jews....so..tell me...WHO's beast is this that you speak of?

[Book]

either it is all christians who want to kill off the joos or the joo-haters also hate the christians.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irIXIy6hNc8

You support and defend this "settler" murdering innocent Palestinians then come here and speak of hate?

:oo-->

[rurounikitsune]

I know this is a little off topic, but a monograph written by a single officer for a degree from an army school does not necessarily reflect official US Army policy.

Oh wait, that wasn't off topic, it was just the only on topic post in the thread.

[Hellsbane]

I know this is a little off topic, but a monograph written by a single officer for a degree from an army school does not necessarily reflect official US Army policy.

Oh wait, that wasn't off topic, it was just the only on topic post in the thread.


Precisely. I am having a hard time figuring out exactly what Jew hating has to do with the op.

[Spectrism]

You support and defend this "settler" murdering innocent Palestinians then come here and speak of hate?

:oo-->


Oh sure. I always condone murder.

Now what kind of question is that? Maybe you want something quaint like: the only good Palestinian is a dead one?

I do, however, believe that the middle east land belongs to the descendents of Abraham & Isaac. (not Ishmael) And it will be the choice of the people if they want to take what was given them. Anyone involved in forcing (or trying to) the Israelites from their promised land is going to run into a shytstorm. If they declared that they wanted to take over Iraq, Syria, Lebanon... I would not get in their way.

[greenbear]

Interesting that I don't see any Zionist assaulting our point of view.....could it be because we have freedom of speech at this site that they cannot do anything about?


You ought to get around the forum more. Many members tend to avoid the Jew-hater threads.

[Book]

Anyone involved in forcing (or trying to) the Israelites from their promised land is going to run into a shytstorm. If they declared that they wanted to take over Iraq, Syria, Lebanon... I would not get in their way.


http://www.thehypertexts.com/images/israel-palestine_map.jpg

Jesus wept.

:oo-->

[30pcsAg]

Oh wait, that wasn't off topic, it was just the only on topic post in the thread.


Army Report Says Christians Threaten U.S. Foreign Policy

… are the first words I read when I opened this thread.

It’s true. US Christians do threaten US Foreign policy.

Since Zionists infiltrated the churches they have successfully converted the majority of Christians in the US to support Zionist policy. The Zionist policy that the US is taking and adopting more of every day hinders friendly relations with virtually every nation in the world. Not to mention the police state that same policy is bringing home to us.

People like Hagee speak to millions of people every week who are looking for guidance. When he pushes an agenda he reaches enough people to be effective. Just imagine the impact that the thousands of evangelists teaching in virtually every neighborhood in the country is having.

Zionism is currently the single most dangerous force the US has ever been up against and Christian-Zionists are the engine that they are using to drive their policy.

I think most of the posts in this thread have been right on topic. I see where any astute person in the military might be concerned. I know I am.

[30pcsAg]

Precisely. I am having a hard time figuring out exactly what Jew hating has to do with the op.


Are you equating criticizing Zionist policy to “Jew hating”?

[Ponce]

Spec? I don't hate the Zionist (Jew) they are simply an itch that I have to scratch and nothing more......to hate them is to have feelings for them, and I no longer have any feelings for them........they are simply something that we have to get rid off.

And the Christians? as long as they don't act like the Zionists I don't care what they do.

[Book]

Oh wait, that wasn't off topic, it was just the only on topic post in the thread.


Army Report Says Christians Threaten U.S. Foreign Policy

… are the first words I read when I opened this thread.

It’s true. US Christians do threaten US Foreign policy.

Since Zionists infiltrated the churches they have successfully converted the majority of Christians in the US to support Zionist policy. The Zionist policy that the US is taking and adopting more of every day hinders friendly relations with virtually every nation in the world. Not to mention the police state that same policy is bringing home to us.

People like Hagee speak to millions of people every week who are looking for guidance. When he pushes an agenda he reaches enough people to be effective. Just imagine the impact that the thousands of evangelists teaching in virtually every neighborhood in the country is having.

Zionism is currently the single most dangerous force the US has ever been up against and Christian-Zionists are the engine that they are using to drive their policy.

I think most of the posts in this thread have been right on topic. I see where any astute person in the military might be concerned. I know I am.



Exactly:


John Hagee: deviant theology, dangerous foreign policy

By John Taylor - Online Journal Contributing Writer
May 7, 2008, 00:21

Pastor John Hagee gleefully anticipates the death of hundreds of millions of people in a series of wars preparing the world for the second coming of Christ: “The end of the world is rapidly approaching . . . Rejoice and be exceeding glad.”

Worse, Hagee wants to jump start what he sees as the inevitable battle between Israel and the US and an alliance of the Islamic states and Russia: “The United States must join Israel in a preemptive military strike against Iran to fulfill God’s plan for both Israel and the West.” Hagee’s bizarre interpretation of the Bible sees war with Iran as a “biblically prophesized End Time confrontation . . . which will lead to the Rapture, Tribulation and the Second Coming.”

If Hagee were just another kook, walking around Times Square carrying a sign saying “The End is Near,” there would be no need to worry. In fact, Hagee is senior pastor of the Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, Texas, with a congregation of 18,000, appears weekly on 150 TV stations around the world and is the head of Christians United For Israel (CUFI), a lobbying group founded to advance the interests of the State of Israel in the U.S. Congress. Not only does Hagee advocate aggressive war against Iran, he is a strong supporter of our continuing misadventure in Iraq and he opposes any Israeli withdrawal from the West Bank, arguing that God has given all of Palestine to the Israelis.

John Hagee’s end time theology transmogrifies Christianity into little more than a death cult in which the State of Israel is worshipped like a latter day Golden Calf. Despite his weird views, Hagee has access to senior politicians in the US and Israel; he likes to brag that he has met every Israeli prime minister since Menachem Begin.

President Bush praised Hagee’s CUFI for “spreading the hope of God’s love and the universal gift of freedom.” How to square “spreading . . . God’s love” and the “gift of freedom” with bombing the Iranians is hard to fathom, but, in any event, evangelicals like Hagee have been among President Bush’s strongest supporters and the president is not about to abandon them now.

Senator Joe Lieberman is also a Hagee fan and praised him at last year’s CUFI meeting in Washington, likening him to Moses, “a man of God . . . leading a mighty multitude.” If comparing Hagee to Moses seems over the top, remember Hagee and Lieberman have a lot in common. Both men were keen to see the US invade Iraq and both would like to have Uncle Sam attack Syria and Iran, a wish shared by many in Washington, especially arms makers, the American Israeli Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) and neocons in the White House and the Pentagon.

John McCain recently thanked Pastor Hagee for endorsing his run for the presidency. Eight years ago, McCain made a point of denouncing Hagee’s fellow evangelical Jerry Falwell as an “agent of intolerance” and an “evil influence on the Republican party.” Clearly times have changed.

Hagee’s distorted view of Christianity, his hatred of Islam (Hagee once said "those who live by the Koran have a scriptural mandate to kill Christians and Jews”) and his toxic criticism of American Middle East policy have all become part of American political discourse. For example, Senator Jim Inhofe of Oklahoma believes “We are Israel’s best friend . . . because of the character we have as a nation . . . This is not a political battle at all. It is a contest over whether or not the word of God is true.” Former House Majority Leader Dick Armey opined, “I am content to have Israel grab the entire West Bank . . . I happen to believe the Palestinians should leave.” And just a few months ago, presidential candidate Mike Huckabee, an ex-evangelical preacher himself, said he favored the establishment of a Palestinian state, but not in Palestine, rather in Egypt or Saudi Arabia.

Many people, some influential, some not, think religious belief should guide American Middle East policy. Others would say that that the Bible and foreign policy ought to remain entirely separate and that a discussion of Hagee’s religious doctrine is about as meaningful as trying to decide how many angels can fit on the head of a pin. What individuals on both sides of this debate don’t realize is that Hagee’s highly selective reading and strange interpretation of the Bible put him well outside mainstream Christian belief.

Hagee regards God’s covenant with Abraham in the book of Genesis as granting the Patriarch and his descendents unconditional title to the Holy Land. He concludes, therefore, that no territorial compromise with the Palestinians is desirable or necessary. Hagee preaches that those who bless Israel will themselves be blessed (Genesis 12:3) and that a close military and political alliance between the United States and Israel is mandated in scripture. Further, Hagee sees the 1948 emergence of an independent Israel as a sign of the second coming of Christ. Finally, and most controversial of all for an evangelical preacher, Hagee claims that God’s covenant with the ancient Hebrews allows Jews to be saved without belief in Christ.

Did God grant Abraham and his offspring unconditional and eternal possession of the Holy Land? Many scholars would argue that remaining in the land required the Israelites to keep God’s laws. Failure to do so would bring divine punishment. Moses warned in Deuteronomy 28, “If you are not careful to do all the words of this law . . . you shall be plucked off the land that you are entering to take possession of.” The Hebrews’ captivity in Babylon and the Roman conquest of Jerusalem in 70 AD demonstrate to many scholars that God’s covenant with Abraham and his descendents was conditional and their right to the Holy Land by no means absolute.

When Hagee advocates unqualified American support for the State of Israel as a means of obtaining the Almighty’s blessing, he assumes the modern State of Israel is a linear and worthy successor to Abraham. Does blessing Israel mean giving the government of the State of Israel unconditional political, financial and military support? One could argue that Israel’s efforts to colonize the lands captured in 1967 and to dispossess the Palestinians violate the Old Testament commandments against theft and killing. Furthermore, Hagee’s callous disregard for the suffering of indigenous Christians and Muslims is certainly contrary to the New Testament injunctions to “love thy neighbor as thy self” (Matt. 19:19) and to “do unto others as you would have others do unto you” (Matt. 7:12), to say nothing of “Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the sons of God” (Matt. 5:9). Hagee’s bizarre theology has hijacked the messages of the Old and New Testaments to sanctify the injustices done in the Holy Land.

The second coming of Christ is a difficult issue because the Bible can be interpreted in many ways. In his book, Jerusalem Countdown, Hagee enumerates 10 “signs” which he claims “prove” that Christ’s return to earth is imminent. But Luke’s gospel (17: 20) gives a diametrically opposing view: “The Kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed.” Furthermore, Pastor Hagee may say he knows when Christ is returning but his confidence is inconsistent with the parable of the bridegroom (Matt. 25): “you know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.”

Most people who have studied the Christian religion, believers or not, would assert that the New Testament requires belief in Christ for salvation: that is, after all, what makes Christians Christians and the New Testament new. Hagee’s interpretation of scripture posits that salvation for Jews is also possible in Christianity because of God’s covenant with Abraham. Pastor Hagee’s view is obviously erroneous: the gospel of John states, “I (Christ) am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” (John 14:6)

It is easy to understand why Hagee preaches what he does. If you make the State of Israel an object of veneration and at the same time insist that its inhabitants convert to Christianity, you are not going to make many friends in Israel or among Israel’s supporters in the US. And for similar reasons Hagee asserts the Bible favors the Israelis over the Palestinians: Pastor Hagee obviously enjoys meeting Israeli Prime Minister Olmert, speaking in front of the American Israeli Public Affairs Committee and having Malcolm Hoenlein, the head of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations, visit him in San Antonio. Hagee bartered his faith for power and fame, money and notoriety. An advocate of unjust war, Hagee has put down the Bible and taken up the sword. His kingdom is very much of this world.

The Founding Fathers were wise to forbid in the Constitution the establishment of a religion in the US. Although morality, often finding its roots in religion, will always influence government and election of public officials, the specifics of religious belief and practice have been kept, for the most part, in private life, to the nation’s great benefit. Making decisions about war and peace based on strange interpretations of arcane End Time prophecy is dangerous and absurd. That Hagee is a serious political player in 21st Century America shows we have truly entered a post Enlightenment era.

:oo-->

[greenbear]

Anyone involved in forcing (or trying to) the Israelites from their promised land is going to run into a shytstorm. If they declared that they wanted to take over Iraq, Syria, Lebanon... I would not get in their way.


http://www.thehypertexts.com/images/israel-palestine_map.jpg

Jesus wept.

:oo-->

I've noticed you like to use the shortest sentence in the Bible a lot. I'd be careful, if I were you, not to use even these two words of Jesus out of their context.

Matthew 12:36-37 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

[30pcsAg]

I do, however, believe that the middle east land belongs to the descendents of Abraham & Isaac.

Why do you believe this? edit to ad that I assume you mean descended by blood.

[JDRock]

..greenbear, how is THIS out of context? " they (the jews) are the ENEMIES concerning the gospel" now ,if the apostle paul, while on the run from jews trying to murder him tells you this, and STILL, you with teary eyes embrace your deadly enemy oblivious to the knife in their hand....how can you justify supporting the sworn ENEMIES of Christ??

[jedemdasseine]

We often don't think of Jesus as getting mad and brandishing weapons, but then we often forget the time he visited the temple money changers.


Cleansing the Temple
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh35/_Morgan_Le_Fay_/patrickcleansingtemplelr.jpg

[Trinity]

If the author stated "End times Christians like John Hagee and his flock" should not be involved with American foreign policy decisions then he would be talking sense. But since he didn't it comes of as a general Christian bashing piece. So a no go for me.

[Spectrism]

I do, however, believe that the middle east land belongs to the descendents of Abraham & Isaac.

Why do you believe this? edit to ad that I assume you mean descended by blood.


Gen 21:9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking.
Gen 21:10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.

Gen 25:1 Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah.
Gen 25:2 And she bare him Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah.
Gen 25:3 And Jokshan begat Sheba, and Dedan. And the sons of Dedan were Asshurim, and Letushim, and Leummim.
Gen 25:4 And the sons of Midian; Ephah, and Epher, and Hanoch, and Abida, and Eldaah. All these were the children of Keturah.
Gen 25:5 And Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac.

Gen 25:6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.

Gen 26:3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;
Gen 26:4 And I will make thy(Isaac) seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;


Gen 28:1 And Isaac called Jacob, and blessed him, and charged him, and said unto him, Thou shalt not take a wife of the daughters of Canaan.
Gen 28:2 Arise, go to Padanaram, to the house of Bethuel thy mother's father; and take thee a wife from thence of the daughters of Laban thy mother's brother.
Gen 28:3 And God Almighty bless thee, and make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, that thou mayest be a multitude of people;
Gen 28:4 And give thee the blessing of Abraham, to thee, and to thy seed with thee; that thou mayest inherit the land wherein thou art a stranger, which God gave unto Abraham.


Gen 35:9 And God appeared unto Jacob again, when he came out of Padanaram, and blessed him.
Gen 35:10 And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.
Gen 35:11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;
Gen 35:12 And the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee I will give it, and to thy seed after thee will I give the land.


Exo 33:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Depart, and go up hence, thou and the people which thou hast brought up out of the land of Egypt, unto the land which I sware unto Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, saying, Unto thy seed will I give it:
Exo 33:2 And I will send an angel before thee; and I will drive out the Canaanite, the Amorite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite:
Exo 33:3 Unto a land flowing with milk and honey: for I will not go up in the midst of thee; for thou art a stiffnecked people: lest I consume thee in the way.

Deu 1:6 The LORD our God spake unto us in Horeb, saying, Ye have dwelt long enough in this mount:
Deu 1:7 Turn you, and take your journey, and go to the mount of the Amorites, and unto all the places nigh thereunto, in the plain, in the hills, and in the vale, and in the south, and by the sea side, to the land of the Canaanites, and unto Lebanon, unto the great river, the river Euphrates.
Deu 1:8 Behold, I have set the land before you: go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give unto them and to their seed after them.

[Spectrism]

If the author stated "End times Christians like John Hagee and his flock" should not be involved with American foreign policy decisions then he would be talking sense. But since he didn't it comes of as a general Christian bashing piece. So a no go for me.


This makes me wonder... do you think we are not in the end days? When you look at the coalescing of things: technology, world governments, military capabilities, corruption, weather disturbances, earthquakes & volcanoes.... is this just another day for you?

[Trinity]

Christian End Timers, Mayan 2012 End Timers, Comets are gonna crash to earth End Timers, Global Warming End Timers, Where are the Bees? End Timers, The world economy is going to implode End Timers. To me it's a form of mental weakness that has afflicted people for some reason. As far as the growing world government police state? That is a real problem but people are too distracted by "End Times" nonsense to notice. Weather Disturbances and Earthquakes? No not just another day for me or the people involved, but it is for the planet.

[Spectrism]

Christian End Timers, Mayan 2012 End Timers, Comets are gonna crash to earth End Timers, Global Warming End Timers, Where are the Bees? End Timers, The world economy is going to implode End Timers. To me it's a form of mental weakness that has afflicted people for some reason. As far as the growing world government police state? That is a real problem but people are too distracted by "End Times" nonsense to notice. Weather Disturbances and Earthquakes? No not just another day for me or the people involved, but it is for the planet.


I will be curious to see if your outlook changes by November 2010.

[Desolation LineTrimmer]

[quote=Book ]



I do, however, believe that the middle east land belongs to the descendents of Abraham & Isaac. (not Ishmael) And it will be the choice of the people if they want to take what was given them. Anyone involved in forcing (or trying to) the Israelites from their promised land is going to run into a shytstorm. If they declared that they wanted to take over Iraq, Syria, Lebanon... I would not get in their way.


Just keep my tax dollars out of zio-christian religious nutjobism, and keep our kids out of the zio-draft too. If you want to fight for Isahell, go for it. But leave sane people out of it, please.

[StackerKen]

John 1

11He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. 12But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

[greenbear]

..greenbear, how is THIS out of context? " they (the jews) are the ENEMIES concerning the gospel" now ,if the apostle paul, while on the run from jews trying to murder him tells you this, and STILL, you with teary eyes embrace your deadly enemy oblivious to the knife in their hand....how can you justify supporting the sworn ENEMIES of Christ??


The Christian Church has not replaced Israel and the Jews in their end-time roles and capacity. I don't know you personally, but a lot of people on this board believe that they have replaced the Jews totally, whether spiritually, or even some form of British Israelism, or they don't interpret the scriptures literally, they say all or most of the events of the book of Revelation, and Daniel, and all the other prophets, have already happened in 70 AD.

A proper balance should be taken. God has promised that he will never cast away his people, physical Israel. God has a plan for these people, he has promised the land to a remnant of the physical descendants of Jacob. They will be living there right into the Millennial reign of Jesus Christ. There are over 1400 places in scripture that reiterates the promises of God to the Israelites that they will inhabit all of the land he has given them for an everlasting possession. This will only happen when the remnant of the Jews recognize Jesus Christ as their Messiah, and worship him as their God.

John 11:32-38 Then when Mary was come where Jesus was, and saw him, she fell down at his feet, saying unto him, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died. When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled, And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see. Jesus wept. Then said the Jews, Behold how he loved him! And some of them said, Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man should not have died? Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave. It was a cave, and a stone lay upon it.

Jesus groaned in his spirit, and Jesus wept, because of the unbelief of even those closest to him. He may have also wept in empathy with their grief and loss. He did not weep because Israel is again in their land today. In fact, Jesus Christ himself will destroy the nations that divide his land.

Joel 3:2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

Joel 3:9 Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:

Joel 3:10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.

Joel 3:11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.

Joel 3:12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.

Joel 3:13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.

Joel 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.

Joel 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.

Joel 3:16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

Joel 3:17 So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.

Joel 3:18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim.

Joel 3:19 Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land.

Joel 3:20 But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation.

Joel 3:21 For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the LORD dwelleth in Zion.

[Desolation LineTrimmer]

The expression "crazy as shit house rats" comes to mind. I think we should just get it over with and nuke the world so jehosephat hurries up and comes back. :oo-->

[StackerKen]

More Karma points for GB :)


“But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry… But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.”
– Romans 11

19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

[Book]

http://wordincarnate.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/jesus-wept.jpg



I've noticed you like to use the shortest sentence in the Bible a lot. I'd be careful, if I were you, not to use even these two words of Jesus out of their context.




Jesus groaned in his spirit, and Jesus wept, because of the unbelief of even those closest to him. He may have also wept in empathy with their grief and loss. He did not weep because Israel is again in their land today. In fact, Jesus Christ himself will destroy the nations that divide his land.


Behold. Witness your own hypocrisy here greenbear.

:oo-->

[JDRock]

...hello? i said NOTHING about anyone replacing ANYONE, greenbear!!

what the thread title is is ;" war on Christians"
I have labored to show you that ;
1. there IS a war.

2. WHO is the enemy

3. How best to fight them.

how does misleading my points, and denying that the jews have declared an irreconcilable war to the DEATH on Christians for 2,000 years, change that fact?