Need help choosing a rifle

[k-os]

Myself and a couple of other GSUSers went to an Appleseed Project this weekend. I don't mind telling y'all that I did pretty well. Here is my dilemma:

For the event, I bought a new Ruger 10/22 synthetic stock. I had a decent scope mounted on it. I purchased a sling, but I never got to use my own rifle because it doesn't have the stock studs to hold the sling mount. (The sling is very important in rifleman training).

I used an instructor's Ruger 10/22 (with sling) for the event. When I asked him about how to have the studs put in to my rifle, he told me not to do it, and that it would be throwing good money after bad because the studs would not be reliable. He felt I would quickly grow out of my rifle anyway. I trust this man and his experience very much.

So . . . I need to purchase another rifle and move on. Lesson learned.

My question is this: Should I get another Ruger with built-in sling studs, or move on to something "better"? If the answer is "better", please help me with more details. I am willing to spend up to $500, and I'd like to stick with a 22 because the kick is nearly non-existent.

[Awoke]

Bellevue Bully would have some input on this. I'll PM him for you.

[big country]

How can studs be "unreliable"? They're screwed into the stock. They don't affect aim other then securing the sling?

I added studs to my shotgun, never had a problem with them. Locktite the screws and they won't work loose.

Also Outgrow a 10/22? Thats non-sense. I've been hunting since I was 12, I'm 25 now. So 13 years, I've had my own 10/22 for 7 years and used my fathers during the gap. I still grab my 10/22 for squirrel hunting..

If you're going to "outgrow" a 10/22, you're going to outgrow ANY 22. Which is a stupid concept anyways since the 10/22 is perfect for small game and cheap target practice. I guess I don't understand what he meant by outgrow? Outgrow meaning you'll want a bigger caliber rifle someday? Sure, but the 10/22 still has its use (small game and CHEAP PRACTICE). Shoot a squirrel with a .223 and you can't eat the remains because there are none...

If you're worried about putting the studs on wrong, a gunsmith can do it for CHEAP (at least it should be).

I'm not trying to put down your instructor at all, I just don't understand his stance I guess...It doesn't make any sense to me.

[Book]

They're screwed into the stock.


Not in her synthetic stock.

:oo-->

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=493187

[big country]

They're screwed into the stock.


Not in her synthetic stock.

:oo-->

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=493187


Sorry, forgot that it was a synthetic stock.

Ok, you'll have to replace the stock then with one that is wood (so you can screw in studs) or go with the synthetic option (if that is important) and just buy a replacement stock that comes with studs:

Hogue Overmolded for standard barrels:

Link to Stock (http://andean-inc.com/Merchant5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TAOS&Product_Code=HOG22000&Category_Code=1022sportstock)

looking at spending $65 to get studs. And it will be reliable!


Absolutely, one of the finest replacement stocks made for this gun! Built for comfort, the non-slip exterior keeps even moist hands firmly on the stock. The Neoprene, pebbled grip area also provides an insulating effect in cold, damp weather. The Hogue OverMolded stock is super comfortable and will turn your 10-22 into a super trick, and accurate custom rifle! Hogue 10/22 stocks come equipped with sling swivel studs and feature simple, drop-in installation. Fits Ruger 10/22, .22LR caliber rifles with standard taper barrels (will not fit Bull/Target/Match barreled models). Black color.


EDIT: Replaced long link with named link to prevent forum page scrolling to the right. -Gaillo

[Book]

So . . . I need to purchase another rifle and move on. Lesson learned.

My question is this: Should I get another Ruger with built-in sling studs, or move on to something "better"? If the answer is "better", please help me with more details. I am willing to spend up to $500, and I'd like to stick with a 22 because the kick is nearly non-existent.


http://www.hi-desertdog.com/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=104

No you don't. You already bought the sling and own a great rifle so just buy a wood stock for $20 from one of the thousands of guys who replaced their original wood stock with some fancy after-market stock. There are thousands of these perfectly-good original wood stocks just sitting in closets all over America. Guys here have replaced their wood stocks and kept the old one. Just ask around and save your hard-earned money.

Solve this little problem for $20 then move on...lol.

:)

[Book]

Hogue Overmolded for standard barrels:

Link to Stock (http://andean-inc.com/Merchant5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TAOS&Product_Code=HOG22000&Category_Code=1022sportstock)

looking at spending $65 to get studs. And it will be reliable!


Excellent find Big Country! Excellent suggestion and it fits the standard tapered barrel. Most aftermarket stocks are for bull barrel only.

I agree.

:)



EDIT: Replaced long link with named link to prevent forum page scrolling to right. -Gaillo

[steveoc]

...... and I'd like to stick with a 22 because the kick is nearly non-existent.


There is a good reason for that - its because the 'kick' at the sharp end of a 22 is similarly non-existent ... unless you are unfortunate enough to be a small furry animal, or a beer can, or a glass bottle filled with petroleum gel. But then - shooting at any of the above is just plain wrong.

It really depends on what you want the rifle for, and how effective you intend it to be for that purpose. The requirements would be one or more of :
- Learning to shoot
- Active use (protection of family and property, overthrowing the corrupt government, etc)
- Plain old fun

Learning to shoot ? There is only so much you can learn on a 22, as the control threshold is very low. Hang on to the ruger as a backup weapon for practice.

Active use ? 5.56mm (such as an AR-15) would be the minimum for warding off some types of moving targets, and you may be surprised at how little recoil kick there is in one of these. Very easy to fire accurately up to a few hundred meters as well. Price could be an issue though. Of all the variations on this theme out there, from the AR-15 upwards, the steyr AUG would be my pick - but now we are talking thousands of FRNs.

On a lesser budget, there are really only 2 ways to go :

1) Something in 7.62x39 .. such as a good SKS or a cheap AK. Very robust and easy to look after, very quick & easy to use ... and it puts out impressive firepower (and noise) at close range. A cheap and dependable tool who's unashamed single purpose in life is to overthrow corrupt governments - and looks the part too.

2) Ex-mil centrefire. If I was living in the USA, Id go for an M1 Garand (impossible to find over here, but plentiful in the USA ?). Yes its big, heavy and ugly, and kicks enormously compared to your 22. But with such a rifle, you have to learn the hard way how to relax into it and properly learn the craft. I think the Garand may be a complex piece of kit too, so that may be an issue.

If you really want to master the art of the rifle, then Id highly recommend a good quality bolt action mauser, that should still be available for peanuts. The gewehr 98 is a classic rifle, more than capable of putting out accurate measured fire at 800m. The 7.92x57mm round is cheap and plentiful, and actually does something useful at the target end on impact. An original german made, or czech made mauser (Brno) would be the choice. Avoid Turkish / Persian / Chinese mausers.

The swedish mausers in 6.5mm are particularly good rifles as well, even more accurate, but they do have a hideous kick on them. You can get lucky with Mosin Nagant's as well, and find one that shoots well.

The most impressive looking rifle in this range - the Russian Tokarev SVT, that fires the big nasty 7.62 rimmed round. Poor man's dragunov.

A variation on Swedish mausers - you can sometimes find semi-auto Ljungman AG-42's, which are a superb rifle going dirt cheap. Hard to find, but there is also the Egyptian 'Hakim' rifle, which is the based on the Ljungman and chambered for 7.92x57. Its a beast, I think I scored mine for about $80 at a gun show.

Also had a Belgian FN-49 in 7.92 as well .. nice piece of kit, I think I picked that up for about $300.

Had a couple of Lee Enfields as well in .303 rimmed - a nice MkII Lithgow model from 43, and a shortened 'Jungle Carbine' from 49. Quality kit, but probably hard to find over there. Still used occasionally in Af-pipe-istan I believe, for good reason.

....

Plain old fun ?

I have no idea what the rules are where you live, but if you get the chance, have a play with an old-skool 9mm submachine gun. What a blast !! We still used to be issued these not that long ago, and they are a very fun weapon to use. (Australian F1 submachine gun in 9mm) Zero kick. If the planets were aligned properly, they were accurate at 200m. I remember my mate next to me putting 24 rounds out of a 30 round mag into a figure-11 at 200 meters one day (on single shot). A feat that could not be repeated the next day.

Best fun Ive ever had on a trigger is with a Russian ppsh-40, which uses a 9mm cartridge necked down to 7.62 (russian pistol round), and a big 70 round drum magazine.

....

Ultimate rifle ?

There are some really nice rifles around, and the prices are great. Modern developments just keep getting better and better. This subject came up the other day about what you would choose for a personal weapon for a deployment given any budget, and the answer was too easy ... L1A1 (FN-FAL), everyone is different, but that's a no brainer question for me.

Probably not he answer you were looking for ... But I hope that helps :)

[k-os]

Wow, steveoc, thanks for all of that information!

I have other weapons for other purposes, a shotty, a pistol . . . I also have a bolt action Marlin 80 which once belonged to my grandfather.

This rifle that I want to modify or replace is for long distance protection (if ever needed) and really for now, just target practice. I didn't know I could replace the stock, so I will probably do that.

I knew you guys would be able to point me in the right direction (while also trying very hard not to insult my comparative fire arm ignorance). :morph:

[Book]

This rifle that I want to modify or replace is for long distance protection (if ever needed) and really for now, just target practice.


http://www.macs.hw.ac.uk/~jbw/images/rabbit-artillery.jpg

Then we are not really talking about .22 cal unless you anticipate this kind of foe. Forget about spending anymore money on the Ruger 10-22 and start now exploring a bigger bore for long distance protection. With your shotgun and pistol you already have close-in covered...lol. If you can handle the recoil of your shotgun you can handle more than a .22 plinker.

:)

[NOOB]

If your rifle has the barrel band you can replace it with a band that has sling swivels attached.

[Horn]

Hasn't this posted here before?

[k-os]

http://www.macs.hw.ac.uk/~jbw/images/rabbit-artillery.jpg

Then we are not really talking about .22 cal unless you anticipate this kind of foe. Forget about spending anymore money on the Ruger 10-22 and start now exploring a bigger bore for long distance protection. With your shotgun and pistol you already have close-in covered...lol. If you can handle the recoil of your shotgun you can handle more than a .22 plinker.



Very cute. How about I work my way up in caliber? I can handle my shotgun, but a shot gun doesn't really require accuracy, so who cares if it recoils a little? Also, at this event (which I plan to attend again next month), we shoot for 8 hours a day for two days. I would really like to stick with my plinker and work on my accuracy. Once I master this caliber, I'll be happy to entertain thoughts of a new challenge and larger foes. :o

[Book]

This rifle that I want to modify or replace is for long distance protection (if ever needed) and really for now, just target practice. I didn't know I could replace the stock, so I will probably do that.



Please acknowledge this very important point made here that a .22 is NOT suitable for long distance protection regardless of any possible modification. The cute rabbit photo was intended to illustrate this point...lol.

:)

[k-os]

Acknowledged, Mr. Book. Roger that. Copy. Got it.

[IHS]

If you shoot right-handed, take a look at the Saiga. Inexpensive, robust, accurate to 200 yds, simple maintenance, a natural pointer.

I chose one for my wife and she shoots it well. Either 223 or 7.62x39 caliber. Comes in basic black or natural wood brown. Easy to accessorize.

Another option is the new model 580 Ruger Mini-14 in .223, stainless finish for humid climate...

[willie pete]

5.56 or 7.62 X 39 doesn't have a huge recoil, it's easily mastered, after that you could graduate up to a .308 (7.62 X 51) a stronger recoil, but a superior gain in stopping power

[wildcard]

A carbine in a pistol round would probably be your next step up from .22. Like a CX-4 Storm in 9mm or .40 cal. Recoil will be minimal and you gain some distance and stopping power (especially with the .40) Mag capacity is still limited to around 10? rounds.

http://www.budspolicesupply.com/catalog/images/13434.jpg
Mid $700s

You could skip over it to an M-4 without problem, I'm certain. Recoil is minimal, but it is much louder and therefore perceived to have a lot more recoil. The Ruger SR-556 is gas piston operated and is getting good reviews and feedback. But I think they're going for around 1300 now? The 30 round mag capacity is nice.

http://www.defensereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/ruger_sr556_1.gif
$1300ish?

Just my 2 cents.

[wildcard]

If you wanted to go Annie Oakley you could get a lever action in a pistol caliber as well.

http://www.survival-gear-guide.com/images/my-marlin-1894-44-magnum-46580.jpg


Just go with the pistol I say. ;D

http://www.leninimports.com/raquel_welch_gallery_36.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24OksL4FvkU

[Horn]

If you wanted to go Annie Oakley you could get a lever action in a pistol caliber as well.

Just go with the pistol I say. ;D



You mean pistolé... ;D

yes, I agree

btw, is that a real poncho?

[Awoke]

btw, is that a real poncho?


After looking at that picture... Is that a real horn?

lol

[k-os]

Update: I bought the over-molded stock and replaced it myself. Thanks big country for the recommendation. I bought an extended mag release and installed that myself. I know this probably seems easy to you guys, but it's a new experience for me, and I am proud. ;D

I also bought a new trigger mechanism, but I am going to have a professional do that part.

After I master my plinker, I think I will be looking at AR-15 and Saiga, but that SR-556 sure looks cool!

[Heimdhal]

Hey K-,

cant believe I didnt see this thread earlier. Much as I liked Dr. John, I disagree that you will out grow your .22. There are few rifles that stay in peoples arsenal longer than a good reliable .22

If you want something with the studs already put on and half the price of a ruger 10/22 with twice the inherent accuracy......get a MARLIN!!! buhahahahhahaha.

But hes right that putting posts in your factory stock would probably be a waste, but now you have a good aftermarket one ;)

I can help you with the trigger if you want. I've done trigger work on nearly all my guns and it really helps alot and the Rugers are super easy.

As far as the Ruger gas piston AR. Ive heard nothing but good things about it. If you can afford it and really want a 5.56 platform, I'd so go for it. A saiga would also be a good option. Better to keep a rifle in common calibers like the 5.56 and 7.62x39 if you're looking for post shtf platforms.

Wildcards suggestion of a pistol caliber carbine is also very good. the Kel Tec sub 2000 is a good one you can get in 9mm, 40 and I believe .45 soon. Also it takes standard glock mags, so post shtf mags will be readily available rather than a gun that takes proprietary mags. If you get it in .40 you've just doubled your SHTF mag and ammo availability since that is standard for most police departments and one of the few calibers that DIDNT try up in the recent ammo shortages.

However, you will be more limited on range than with a saiga in x39/.223 or an ar in 5.56/.223

[k-os]

Heimdhal - You know I have a Marlin, of course, but I doubt I could manage the bolt action well enough to pass the AQT.

It would be great if you would help with my trigger. Also, I think we need to visit the outdoor range soon, even if it is an hour away. I'll drive!

[Heimdhal]

Heimdhal - You know I have a Marlin, of course, but I doubt I could manage the bolt action well enough to pass the AQT.

It would be great if you would help with my trigger. Also, I think we need to visit the outdoor range soon, even if it is an hour away. I'll drive!
\

Yeah, I want to check out pops off of griffin in Ft Lauderdale. Its a private little 100-200 yard range. Actualy, appleseed will be starting there on july fourth weekend, which I'll be attending if Im around. Will be in mayaka this month on sunday too.

You need to get some mags for that marlin too, but what I meant was a marlin 60, or 700 series like mine ;)

[big country]

Update: I bought the over-molded stock and replaced it myself. Thanks big country for the recommendation. I bought an extended mag release and installed that myself. I know this probably seems easy to you guys, but it's a new experience for me, and I am proud. ;D

I also bought a new trigger mechanism, but I am going to have a professional do that part.

After I master my plinker, I think I will be looking at AR-15 and Saiga, but that SR-556 sure looks cool!


Great K-os! It should serve you well. So where are the pictures? ;)

But seriously...pictures. I might be buying one of those stocks for myself now!

Thanks

[NOOB]

Update: I bought the over-molded stock and replaced it myself. Thanks big country for the recommendation. I bought an extended mag release and installed that myself. I know this probably seems easy to you guys, but it's a new experience for me, and I am proud. ;D

I also bought a new trigger mechanism, but I am going to have a professional do that part.

After I master my plinker, I think I will be looking at AR-15 and Saiga, but that SR-556 sure looks cool!



Great job k-os. If you want to do the trigger yourself look up 10/22 trigger job on youtube or google it. Some very helpful people will show you how step by step.

[Gknowmx]

Have you considered a .17HMR?

http://www.chuckhawks.com/savage_93R17.htm

I like my 93R17-BTVS