Home invasion; cop or not?

[wildcard]

http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID33857/images/whoisthis2_0124.jpg

Vid at link.

http://www.examiner.com/x-33857-Fort-Smith-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2010m4d21-Home-invasion-cop-or-not


Just after 10 p.m. on Monday night, April 19th, Little Rock homeowner Rachel Woods went to her door in response to a knock. When she asked who was there, a voice said, “Little Rock Police”. She called her husband on her cell phone, who then advised she should disable the house alarm and let them in. When she attempted to disable the alarm, the door was kicked in and three men with “Police” on their shirts forced their way in. The official police report gives this description:

She described the first suspect as a black male, 20-30 dressed in all black with a T-Shirt that had "POLICE" in big letters on the front, med-dark skin, with a goatee. She advised the other subjects were wearing pull over masks dressed in all black with "POLICE" on the front of their shirts.

Mrs. Woods was demanded of money and then she was shot in the upper leg. The burglar alarm, which had been loudly going off from the time the door had been kicked in, finally frightened the men away.

What are an Arkansas homeowner’s options in a situation such as this? The number of home-invasion robberies seems to be picking up in the state, possibly due to the poor economy. Many citizens are arming themselves before answering the door, preparing themselves for anything. But what do you do when someone identifies themselves as police, then crashes your door before you can open it, as happened Monday night?

Complicating matters even more, a similar incident took place in North Little Rock in January, 2008. This time, however, the intruders were the North Little Rock SWAT team. The North Little Rock Police had a legal warrant, but had the wrong house number. In this incident, the homeowner had simply picked up a gun beside his bed when he heard windows breaking and the door being kicked in. He was then shot several times, .223 caliber bullets narrowly missing his heart and almost severing his leg.

A second after he sat up, Ingle said, the room “kind of filled up with light,” and he could see the officers outside the window, in their black helmets and body armor. “I could see that they weren't robbers, so I threw the gun down,” Ingle said. “A second later, I heard one of the police officers say, ‘He's got a f***ing gun'… I could hear him turning in the leaves, and as soon as he turned, he turned around and started shooting.” He knew he had been shot, Ingle said, and his first instinct was to try to get off the bed — away from the window, at least, where the two officers were now pouring fire into the room. As Ingle tried, he got tangled up in the blankets and his ruined leg folded under him, the shattered bone grating inside. He fell to the floor in agony. As he fell, the officers outside the window kept shooting, hitting him four more times — arm, calf, hip and chest.

After spending over a week in intensive care, he was then arrested and charged with aggravated assault, among other charges. He was later convicted of the crime of picking up his gun to protect himself against what he thought was a home invasion robbery and is now looking at serving an 18 year prison sentence.

Your options for self-defense in these situations are few and should be well thought out before acting on them. Your life or freedom could hang in the balance; depending on who really is at the door.

[Heimdhal]

Thanks for the post wildcard. Big +1.

[wildcard]

This is only going to increase as the economy worsens. I had a few threads about multiple perp home-invasions being on the rise, posted on the old site. I guess it's time to start again! Then we can have 9mm vs 45acp and revolvers vs semi-auto battles! ;D

Where is that wallew FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU pic?

[SLV^GLD]

I don't give a shit; Cop or Robber. Smash in my door and come charging in and they both get the same treatment with zero regrets for the outcome of any participant.

[General of Darkness]

Do what the cops do, shot first, ask questions later.

Also, get A DAMN GOOD DOG like a Shepard, Rottie, Dobie etc. Keep them IN THE HOUSE at night, they WILL alert you to trouble way before your door even gets touched. That way you've got more time to choose between the AR-10, AR-15, Semi-auto shotgun or 45. ;)

[Heimdhal]

This is only going to increase as the economy worsens. I had a few threads about multiple perp home-invasions being on the rise, posted on the old site. I guess it's time to start again! Then we can have 9mm vs 45acp and revolvers vs semi-auto battles! ;D

Where is that wallew FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU pic?


As reuested, sir.
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m179/TeamPointBlank/wallew.jpg


I thought I should add, for those members that werent around "in those days". The blue, wavy avatar used to be Twisted Avatar (now Twisted Titan) on GIM and the other one was wallews......

Oh, the good old days.

[zusn]

After spending over a week in intensive care, he was then arrested and charged with aggravated assault, among other charges. He was later convicted of the crime of picking up his gun to protect himself against what he thought was a home invasion robbery and is now looking at serving an 18 year prison sentence.Few things surprise me anymore. This just shocks the hell out of me! They spray his house full of bullets, shoot him up and then he gets 18 years in prison? Please say this isn't real!

[Black Blade]

This is why you want armour piercing ammo. For home defense I prefer the Tokarev (7.62x25) that penetrates kevlar and body armour. Often the paramilitaries are criminals as much as the gangbangers. Another option is the Saiga-12 (12 ga. 00 buck) as well as the venerable AK-47 (7.62x39) with different flavors including armour piercing and incindiary. Also remember to have a powerful flashlight (i.e. Surefire) to shine in their eyes and to disorient.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll287/jhwarner1/SheridanGuns/TokarevAmmo8.jpg

Romanian Tokarevs with milsurp Romanian ammo

http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/18636bc61da9a2c42d07156f37a693f9369ed90d.pjpg

Saiga-12 with 20 round MD Arms drums

http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/ca3365e11fc6aec428631ee735e498281909bbce.pjpg

00 Buck ammo

http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/2a426591ada232641c43b29a9625df2f70f62966.pjpg

Russian AK-47 variants

Paramilitary Home Invasions Gone Bad: http://peakoilpetroleumandpreciousmetals.yuku.com/topic/4372/t/Overkill-The-Rise-of-Paramilitary-Police-Raids-in-America.html

When Cops Go Bad: http://peakoilpetroleumandpreciousmetals.yuku.com/topic/5178/t/When-Cops-Go-Bad.html

Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.

- Black Blade

[big country]

I would shoot first, ask questions later. Cops do it, I can too. If I spent 18 years in prison for it, I don't care. My family would support me in prison (in this instance), what more do you need?

Even after my prison time I wouldn't hesitate to make the same decision again. I vowed I would protect my wife and I intend to do that until I die.

"Do you promise to love, honor, cherish and protect her, forsaking all others and holding only unto her?"




Ps - I'm going look into one of those Tokarev's, for now I'd grab my Ar-15. Sits beside my bed, loaded, every night.

[BrewTech]

Do what the cops do, shot first, ask questions later.

Also, get A DAMN GOOD DOG like a Shepard, Rottie, Dobie etc. Keep them IN THE HOUSE at night, they WILL alert you to trouble way before your door even gets touched. That way you've got more time to choose between the AR-10, AR-15, Semi-auto shotgun or 45. ;)


I just knocked on the bathroom door while describing to me GF the gist of this story... my little chihuahuas went NUTS, barking like crazy... a rottie isn't necessary- any loud, easily-provoked dog will do...

[zusn]

Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.

- Black Blade
Normally I'd agree, but 18 years!? They charged into his house (which was the wrong one) and shot him up and then sentenced him to 18 years? Something is really wrong with this situation.

There as at least one good lesson to be learned. It's something I harp on the wife about constantly. Keep the damn windows covered, especially at night!

[Book]

They charged into his house (which was the wrong one) and shot him up and then sentenced him to 18 years? Something is really wrong with this situation.


I'm not buying that story either. They left out something really important here.

:oo-->

[mick silver]

they alway leave some thing out ... that just the way the do biz

[MetalsMan]

This is why you want armour piercing ammo. For home defense I prefer the Tokarev (7.62x25) that penetrates kevlar and body armour. Often the paramilitaries are criminals as much as the gangbangers. Another option is the Saiga-12 (12 ga. 00 buck) as well as the venerable AK-47 (7.62x39) with different flavors including armour piercing and incindiary. Also remember to have a powerful flashlight (i.e. Surefire) to shine in their eyes and to disorient.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll287/jhwarner1/SheridanGuns/TokarevAmmo8.jpg

Romanian Tokarevs with milsurp Romanian ammo

http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/18636bc61da9a2c42d07156f37a693f9369ed90d.pjpg


Armor piercing with lead core ammo?

How does that work? High velocity???

[Just wondering about the Tokarev]

[Black Blade]

http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/4ad36c7818f1ac8f2d1f1e2330b69aac1c672e2d.pjpg

Aside from the obvious need for shot placement - practice, practice, practice.

I live in Bear Country and we have the occasional nuisance bear (Black Bear and Grizzly). Due to the thick skin and thick skull on a bear I need penetration more than expansion. That said, there are 7.62x25 hollow points (Wolf Gold) and fragmentation rounds (Mag Safe) available.

Handgun Penetration Tests on Kevlar helmet:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot29.htm

Note that of all the handguns, the 7.62x25 is the only round that penetrated the helmet and water jug.

Wolf Gold JHP

7.62x25 Tokrev Wolf, 85-grain JHP, 1591 fps. Currently out of stock due to high demand but I understand that some may be imported in the Fall once again. Occassionally found on Gunbroker.

Mag Safe Fragmentation

7.62x25 Tokarev MagSafe Defender Rifle Cartridge, 52-Grain, 2120 fps and ~ 560 ft-lb at the muzzle. Mag Safe Frag rounds are pricey at just under $3/round. But they are currently available.

There is a common misconception that 7.62 Tokarev surplus ammunition in the United States uses copper-coated mild steel bullets, and that this increases the chance of dangerous ricochets when fired at hard targets and can damage bullet-traps often used on shooting ranges. While steel-core ammunition in 7.62x25 is available internationally, in the United States the importation of 7.62x25 cartridges loaded with copper-coated steel bullets is illegal; federal law defines these as armor-piercing pistol ammunition. The so-called steel bullets sold in the United States are generally lead-core bullets with copper-washed steel jackets, and these present no greater risk of ricochet than a standard copper-jacketed projectile.

The reason that Tokarev defeats body armour is velocity and energy. The upper end range for milsurp ammo can be in excess of 1,720 fps with over 560 ft-lbs at the muzzle.

I occassionally CCW a Tokarev myself:

http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/fea16d1ea4211031906288d591a00ebe1a68cdee.pjpg

http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/31d1611ead2019349ee42c0ebb38040402d26e4b.pjpg

[Heimdhal]

People should have an onion defense - peel the layers, each one giving early warning. That alone promises to confuse intruders and sap their momentum. Timing is really what it comes down to. Anyone that thinks they should not include the contingency of attack, legal or not, is just asking for it. Much better to frustrate their entry and get the bullhorn to come out so you can think it over and make a strategic decision instead of getting shot in the middle of the night by state-sponsored terrorists.




+1

[Black Blade]

Most every city in America now has operating paramilitary units.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_yMoHsr4ucWs/SnQ5iPMe3dI/AAAAAAAAAnc/lmv_T_2YqJI/s400/SWAT_special_tactical_counter_terrorism_unit.jpg

Overkill: The Rise of Paramilitary Police Raids in America

by Radley Balko

Executive Summary

Americans have long maintained that a man's home is his castle and that he has the right to defend it from unlawful intruders. Unfortunately, that right may be disappearing. Over the last 25 years, America has seen a disturbing militarization of its civilian law enforcement, along with a dramatic and unsettling rise in the use of paramilitary police units (most commonly called Special Weapons and Tactics, or SWAT) for routine police work. The most common use of SWAT teams today is to serve narcotics warrants, usually with forced, unannounced entry into the home.

These increasingly frequent raids, 40,000 per year by one estimate, are needlessly subjecting nonviolent drug offenders, bystanders, and wrongly targeted civilians to the terror of having their homes invaded while they're sleeping, usually by teams of heavily armed paramilitary units dressed not as police officers but as soldiers. These raids bring unnecessary violence and provocation to nonviolent drug offenders, many of whom were guilty of only misdemeanors. The raids terrorize innocents when police mistakenly target the wrong residence. And they have resulted in dozens of needless deaths and injuries, not only of drug offenders, but also of police officers, children, bystanders, and innocent suspects.

This paper presents a history and overview of the issue of paramilitary drug raids, provides an extensive catalogue of abuses and mistaken raids, and offers recommendations for reform.

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6476


Home Invasions Gone Horribly Wrong (Interactive Map)

Botched Paramilitary Police Raids:An Epidemic of "Isolated Incidents""If a widespread pattern of [knock-and-announce] violations were shown . . . there would be reason for grave concern."
-Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy, in Hudson v. Michigan, June 15, 2006.

http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

Good read - 103 pages.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/wtpapers/balko_whitepaper_2006.pdf

[johnlvs2run]

After spending over a week in intensive care, he was then arrested and charged with aggravated assault, among other charges. He was later convicted of the crime of picking up his gun to protect himself against what he thought was a home invasion robbery and is now looking at serving an 18 year prison sentence.

There is no excuse for breaking down someone's door in the middle of the night.
Any cops who invade someone's property in this manner should be put before a firing squad and given no mercy.

What the hell is the matter with those stupid idiots.

How about politely knocking on the door in the daylight, being respectful, and then leaving.

This man did nothing wrong.