Anyone A Landlord? I've Got Some Serious Issues...

[BullionVince]

I am in the state of Minnesota. My girlfriend and I signed a lease on May 31st 2009 that would go through May 31st 2010. The lease was set to auto-renew unless notification was given to cancel said lease two months prior to May 31st 2010. I gave notification of terminating said lease in proper time and the LL acknowledged this. My girlfriend and I have had a falling out and I want to get out of here and get my security deposit back. The apartment is in great condition. However the issue comes from my ex-gf having one of her friends move in to take my place. The two of them signed an entirely new lease. I am told that I will not get a dime of my security deposit back. Apparently it must stick with the apartment and any problems incurred by the new tenants under the new lease will come out of MY security deposit they have re-attached to the NEW LEASE. I am pretty sure this is illegal. I have begun correspondence with the landlord who doesn't seem to want to budge.

My last months rent is due in 48 hours and I almost want to pull my rent if I will not be getting my security deposit back. I need some help here. I have attached the email I sent last night and quoted the landlords previous email down below. Any suggestions?



My email to landlord

Hi Carla,

I was talking to my roommate tonight about my move out coming up on May 31st. In case
you weren't aware, at the end of May I am moving out and my current roommate is having
someone else move in. I however gave proper notice to let the lease I have (the contract
I signed) expire. I understand my current roommate and the person moving in have signed
an entirely new lease of some sort.

Once my contract expires (as per the notification I gave) I was hoping to get my security
deposit back obviously. I was talking to Sarah about this tonight. I think there is
some confusion about the security deposit issue. Sarah said she and you talked and that
I would have to receive my deposit back from the person moving in, instead of your
company. I'm not quite sure that is correct. At least I hope it is not because I
believe that may be against the law.

The contract I signed was for one year unless extended or auto renewed (which it was not,
per my notification to terminate), as I am not vacating earlier than the agreement I
signed. The contract I signed said I would be staying here for one year at which time I
notified you that I would like my contract to expire per the lease agreement and my
notification to vacate. According to the lease I signed, at the end of the contract term
(May 31st 2010 per notification) the apartment was to be inspected and if found
satisfactory I would get my deposit back. Now I am being told that isn't the case. I
would like to get this confusion resolved.

I guess there must be some sort of misunderstanding. Once my lease is done on May 31st
2010, I want to move out and get my security deposit (342.50 + 1% interest) back ASAP.
According to Sarah I won't be able to unless I deal with this entirely new person moving
in. That sounds incorrect. Sarah was referring to the email I have quoted below.

To help clear some of the confusion, I've attached the section from the Minnesota
Attorney General's website on this matter.

"Security deposits are attached to those whose names are stated within the lease, and are
returned to the leaseholder(s) who has remained until the end of the rental term. This
means that, for example, if three individuals share a unit as roommates, and two renters
vacate prior to the end of the tenancy, the security deposit only has to be returned to
the tenant who has remained. Of course, the landlord may choose to locate the tenants who
had vacated, and remit to each individual the divided security deposit."

The above paragraph is confusing but if I understand it correctly, the lease Sarah and I
signed is expiring May 31st 2010 per my notification of termination. Now if Sarah wants
to sign an entirely new lease with her new roommate, that is between your company, Sarah,
and this new person. The original lease I signed is expiring on May 31st 2010 per my
notification and according to the above statement, the security deposit(s) would be
refunded to the respective lease holders. Obviously Sarah could carry over her deposit
and her new roommate would have to provide her entirely own security deposit, because of
the NEW LEASE that the two signed.

This however is an entirely different contract and has no affiliation with the contract I
signed a year ago and gave notification of terminating.

You have been quoted below saying "The original deposit stays with the apartment." I
think you meant the The original deposit stays with the original lease. It would be
silly for my deposit to stay with this apartment if two entirely new people were moving
in. After all we are talking about two entirely different leases.

I look forward to your response.

Regards,

xxxxxx (xxxx Apt. 208)



Emails between landlord and ex-gf
[quote]

She will need to apply and be approved before she can take his spot. He
will need to give me a notice to vacate at the end of your normal lease
term, so I can take him off.
The original deposit stays with the apartment, so she would pay xxxx his
portion. I would have her mark down anything that may be charged at move
out and get the amounts from me before she pays him, his full deposit.
You would not get at rent credit for her signing a lease with you, that is
for new residents who sign a new lease in the vacate apartments that I had.

If you have any more questions please feel free to contact me again.

Thank you and Have a Good Day.


-----Original Message-----
[mailto:xxxxx@xxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:48 PM
To: xxxx
Subject: RE: question..

Hi xxxx,

A couple of questions... I am planning on renewing the lease to a
month-to-month lease. xxxx is moving out and my friend Rebekah is
planning on moving in at the beginning of June. So basically, Rebekah is
taking xxxx's spot and is going to be signing the month-to-month lease with
me.

What happens as far as a security deposit? Is Rebekah going to have to pay
one since xxxx is moving out? Also, do I qualify for the $300 rent credit
since Rebekah will be signing a new lease? Thank you!

xxxxxx

[sirgonzo420]

Just my 2 cents, but you posting this would make you (or your girlfriend) quite easy to find....

I would redact all the personal info...

[BullionVince]

Just my 2 cents, but you posting this would make you (or your girlfriend) quite easy to find....

I would redact all the personal info...


Well hopefully that is better. I don't all care that much in a week or so I am out of here and in my new place. Guess I can kiss all of my money goodbye.

[sirgonzo420]

Just my 2 cents, but you posting this would make you (or your girlfriend) quite easy to find....

I would redact all the personal info...


Well hopefully that is better. I don't all care that much in a week or so I am out of here and in my new place. Guess I can kiss all of my money goodbye.


Eh, you'll be alright... Just one of those "better safe than sorry" things.

Anyway, regarding your landlord; I don't see why they should give you any problems. Unless I'm missing something major, you are in the right, and they owe you the security deposit back.

The landlord should return your deposit and get a deposit from the new tenant.

If the landlord wants to be a dick about it, then you'd have to threaten a suit or something.

[sunshine05]

So the new roomate isn't paying any deposit then? That's not right. I think the law is on your side since the gf and roomate have a brand new lease. But since the landlord isn't going along with this, why doesn't your gf and the roomate just pay you and then they would get the deposit back with their lease is up? If they won't I would just not pay the last months rent.

[BullionVince]

So the new roomate isn't paying any deposit then? That's not right. I think the law is on your side since the gf and roomate have a brand new lease. But since the landlord isn't going along with this, why doesn't your gf and the roomate just pay you and then they would get the deposit back with their lease is up? If they won't I would just not pay the last months rent.


You would think it should be fairly easy enough to get the deposit back from them. I guess you don't know my ex-gf and the games she likes to play. I'm sure many on the board could related with ex-wives etc. This doesn't seem right. This is the response I got this morning.


The way we do the deposits is the original deposit stays with the apartment,
because there is still an original lease holder. Because you are leaving
and a new roommate is taking your place. She will pay you your portion of
the original deposit less if there are charges to your room from when you
were in there, that would be taken out. It would be marked on their move
out sheet and not charged to them actually until they move out.

Example : $342.50 + 3.43 interest deposit paid minus a $20.00 blind what she
would pay you then is $325.93

They way we issue deposits is: We have 21 days to get the deposit back
after move out. That is when she will have to have your deposit back to
you. If she pays you right away that is up to her, but she has 21 days.

If you would like me to explain this in person, we can set up an appointment
to do so. The soonest open I have is on Tuesday 11 am or 1:30. Or we can
chose a different day.


Thank you and Have a Good Day.


How much do you want to bet I won't see a dime 21 days after move out? When I try to go after the Landlord they will tell me to go pound sand and it is an issue between my ex-gf, her little buddy, and myself. I know I'm getting the shaft on this one.

[k-os]

Don't give up so soon.

If they signed an entirely new lease, you will be able to get your money back.

It would be insane to justify keeping a deposit with different renters under a different signed lease.

You may have to take the landlord to small claims court to get it, but usually you will get your money back before that actually occurs, because they know that they will lose in court.

Whatever you do, make sure you are officially removed from all obligations regarding the apartment in case the ex-gf and her friend cause any damage to the property. Double and triple verify in writing (certified, return-receipt letters, not email).

Good luck.

[willie pete]

I'd think, new lease, new deposit,....did both of you sign the original lease? Surely MN has some type of landlord/tenant "dept" you could maybe give aa call to, call the state "info" line

*On a side note, $342 isn't that bad IF you can't recover, sure it's a little over 18 Oz's of Ag currently, but around here,rental deposits are usually around $2000 :D

[cigarlover]

You already have a new place? Tell the new girl and whoever is moving in that they can pay your last rent payment in lieu of the security deposit that is owed to you.

[Book]

When I try to go after the Landlord they will tell me to go pound sand and it is an issue between my ex-gf, her little buddy, and myself. I know I'm getting the shaft on this one.


http://seeker401.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/judgejudy02.jpg

Your ex-girlfriend will try and drag this out until you have a coronary. For fun. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Forget about the deposit money and just walk it off Vince. Be sure to find a new younger girlfriend with bigger boobs and smaller butt to get revenge...lol.

[aybesee123]

just pull the rent in the amount of the deposit and let the new roommate make up the difference.

[Low Pan]

Unless your name is on the new lease it is NOT an Auto-Renew situation. New Lease = New contract. Any Forbearance of the prev contract is null and void when the new contract is entered into and agreed upon unless carried over on the new lease. That being said any verbiage RE how the Sec Dep is to be handled would refer back to the orig lease. That means a new security deposit would need to be put down for the New Lease w/ the new tenants. The old lease's sec deposit would need to handled according to the expired lease.

To properly answer though, I would need to see the actual agreement (I suggest not showing anyone this but your lawyer). LL's put some very loose verbiage to their benefit in these things (especially dealing w/ a Sole Propritetor LL and not a corporation).

[BillBoard]

-- Not legal advice. --

I would not drown in a glass of water, let me explain.

1. Get your expectations in order, nothing that has to do with legal matter moves as fast as you want them to.

2. Put everything in writing, and claim your rights and don't give waivers unless you do so in writing.

3. For small amounts, there is always small claims court.

Having said that, learn to craft your letters which will be turned into notices. If you do not know where to start, start with a doodle of what you want to say and put it in writing. From your what I read of your letter, that was pretty good.

As you have quoted from the A.G., you do not need to explain the law to anyone, it's their job to know the law, so all you have to do is craft an outline of your plan with dates and then send out the notices. For example:


NOTICE OF MOVE OUT AND VACANCY OF LEASEHOLD

Dear So and So:

TAKE NOTICE that pursuant to a lease agreement executed on such and such date, wherein you are Landlord and so and so are tenants, the undersign will vacate the premises on such and such date per said lease agreement.

I have scheduled such and such date for you to perform and complete the inspection of the premises, if such and such date is not agreeable to you please respond in writing with your objections and a proposed date which may be agreeable.

Sincerely,



The scheduling of a date for their inspection is important because, you are putting the onus on them to do the inspection, and if they don't do the inspection, they cannot use that against you in court.

After that has been complete, give them notice as to where to send your deposit:



NOTICE AND DEMAND TO REMIT LEASEHOLD DEPOSIT

Dear So and So:

TAKE NOTICE that pursuant to a lease agreement executed on such and such date, wherein you are Landlord and so and so are tenants, the undersigned has moved out and vacated the premises in accordance with said lease agreement. Consistent with the law and customs of this state, please forward the deposit amount of $000.00 within XX days to the following address: 1 sunny way dr. any town, usa.

Thank you for your attention,



If you don't get your money within the above days, you give them notice of the steps you are going to take to recoup your funds:



NOTICE OF NON RECEIPT OF DEPOSIT MONIES
AND PROPOSED ACTIONS TO CURE DEFAULT

Dear So and So:

TAKE NOTICE that pursuant to a lease agreement executed on such and such date, wherein you are Landlord and so and so are tenants, the undersigned has not received the deposit amount of $000.00 as of this date, in breach of the aforementioned lease agreement placing you in default of said agreement.

PLEASE BE ADVISED that if the undersigned has not received said funds by such and such date (10 days), the undersigned will proceed to file an action at the appropriate court, at your expense, in order to recover the aforementioned funds and any other relief which may be available.

Sincerely,



Pretty much, that's how you get your sh*t back. Of course if they have any legitimate objections and reasons you have to answer them before you can take them to court.

[k-os]

It's threads like THIS that make me proud to be here. There are other threads that do the opposite.

I love it when we get together to help instead of hurt.

[Cebu_4_2]

Nice job Billboard!

[Heimdhal]

Easy: Take the new room mate to thunderdome!

Sounds like the landlord is playing word games "original lease holder" doesnt mean squat becase the old lease was voided and a new lease was created. Thats like gettign a used car and having pay the old owners speeding ticket.


At the very least, take them to small claims court. You're right, you probably wont see dime one after 21 days. I'd be getting that small claims court paper work started.

Take em to judge judy, they actualy pay you to be on the show ;)

[Gknowmx]

Might make sure your Landlord doesn't end up giving the deposit to your ex-GF and expect you two to split the original deposit. Not sure how that was set up.

[Glass]

The Landlord is way out of line. If he thinks he can re-write a thousand years of contract law he's in need of some educating. It's a straight forward step by step process to document the default by the Landlord

Send your letters as per above, date them and send the next one on the date noted in the previous one. Be punctual with them. Send registered mail. Once the default is properly documented ie. Landlords time runs out, go to court and file for a default judgement. There might be something easier, I don't know. Ask around at the local court or maybe there is a small business legal advice service you can ask about debt recovery. What ever it is, it should result in the Sheriff paying a visit to the LL to get the $$.

Unfortunately your LL wants you to jump through hoops. Make sure you charge a few $$ for the effort/ your time and your costs. Good luck.

[LuckyStrike]

I am a landlord FWIW.

Under these circumstances I would give you your portion of the security deposit back and get it from the new girl. But I'm a pretty real world kinda dude.

I've only had 1 bad experience with a tenant who still owes me over 1500 bucks to this day, sure I could go after her in court and win but is it worth my time, money, or mental energy? My solution has been to just let it go, I sleep great at night and am thankful that I can pay all of my bills.

So my advice would be not to stress about it, if you get the money back good. If not than it won't kill ya. Sorry to hear about your g/f to I'm sure that adds to the stress of the situation.

Good luck man feel free to PM me whenever.

[madfranks]

BillBoard, that is very good advice! I'm saving this thread in case I ever need it in the future! 8)

[bonaparte]

First read your lease to see if the type of situation you are in is discussed. If it is you probably have a hard road ahead.

Second know your state's landlord tenant law. http://www.tenant.net/Other_Areas/Minnesota/handhead.html

Honestly I would just not pay my last months rent. Just keep the following quote in mind:

"NOTE: The law forbids tenants to use their security deposits to pay the rent. Those tenants who do may be taken to court and may have to pay the landlord the amount of the rent withheld plus a penalty. However, before the landlord can take a tenant to court, the landlord must give the tenant a written demand for the rent and a notice that it is illegal to apply the security deposit to the last payment period of the rental agreement. Minn. Stat. §504.20, subd. (7)(a) (1992)."

If you are forced to pay the last months rent then just suck it up. No way going to court is worth it for $173.



On a side note, last place I rented I had to retain an attorney and take on my landlord. It took me one entire year to get payment. In the end I got back my security deposit, all attorney fees, and damages, but it took a year. No way I'd do that for $173!

[Mouse]

Hey BV,

Sounds like the landlord is "de facto" ignoring or denying receipt of your termination notice and treating this as if you were to continue on the contract into the month to month part of the lease, and then request that a different roommate "take over" your part in the lease agreement. That way he doesn't have to start a new lease and if the new roommate comes in on the back of the old lease between you/X/LL, YOU ARE STILL LIABLE for damages as the lessee to the agreement. You best make damn sure he acknowledges receipt of your termination. As of the end of the lease with your termination, the contract is satisfied and a new contract is required unless landlord wants to run on a verbal agreement.

The other advice in this thread is correct, get your writings in order and there shouldn't be any problems. Did you get a receipt on your termination notice?

I am not a lawyer, dyodd.

[Bobthetomato]

Some cities and towns have places that give free legal services for renters. Look in the phone book and see if there is one. All it might take is a letter from a lawyer.

[Low Pan]

well put Bill Board