Christian Identity: A Religion for White Racists

[greenbear]

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/american/christian-identity/religion-white-racists.html

Summary

"Christian Identity" is the name of a religious movement uniting many of the white supremacist groups in the United States. Identity's teachers promote racism and sometimes violence. Their roots are deeply embedded in movements such as the Ku Klux Klan and the Nazis. They consider themselves true Israel and view the Jews as half-devils and arch enemies. They believe all but the white race are inferior creations. Identity's religious views are bizarre and occultic, and their view of history is often informed by conspiracy theories. Identity's use of the name "Christian" to promote racism and violence is blasphemous. Jesus Christ as redeemer of all races is God's supreme answer to Identity's outrageous claims.

The headline read "Separatist Surrenders in Idaho." The story was about Randy Weaver, a man indicted for selling two sawed-off shotguns to undercover federal agents. During the FBI's attempt to force Weaver to leave his Idaho home and return to court, three people were killed: a federal agent and Weaver's wife and son. When the standoff was over, 15 handguns, shotguns, and rifles were collected from his cabin.[1] Randy Weaver is a member of a religious movement called "Christian Identity." This "Christian" wing of the larger white supremacist movement is composed of adherents who variously give allegiance to the burning cross of the Ku Klux Klan and the sun sign -- the twisted swastika -- of the Neo-Nazis.

The movement, also called "Israel Identity," has become the uniting force among many white supremacist groups. Included in most religious teaching produced by its leaders are racist statements that echo the statements of other white supremacists. The most moderate groups publish hate literature; the more radical groups turn to violence, including murder. Among those attracted to Identity in recent years are racist and violent young "skinheads" -- some of whom were a part of the crowd of three hundred people who chanted racial slurs at federal marshals attempting to capture Weaver.

Although Identity groups are small in number and diverse, their penchant for social agitation attracts widespread media attention. The recent discovery that racist groups in the United States are supplying both literature and organizational help to racist groups in Germany is of concern to the whole Western world. One article by the Associated Press states that "violent acts perpetrated by far-right German extremists rose from 270 in 1990 to 1,483 last year, mostly attacks on foreigners."[2] The article goes on to say that "police investigating KKK activities in Germany raided some 30 buildings in May."[3]

Not understanding the violent and racist nature of Identity, Christians sometimes connect with this movement because of Identity's espousal of issues such as right-to-life and anti-Communism. Because of this vulnerability it is important for Christians to know and understand Identity's false and racist teachings. For the sake of non-Christians, it is also important for Christians to differentiate between biblical Christianity and Identity. Finally, it is the moral duty of Christians to stand against the evil intent of this form of white supremacist teaching. It is to further each of these three purposes that this article has been written.

The Jew as the Great Enemy

Identity adherents believe they are the only descendants of Adam and the only chosen descendants of Abraham. This is the reason for the name Identity -- they are convinced they know their true identity. They believe they are members of the supposed ten lost tribes of Israel. Identity adherents of today would include the British, Germanic, and Scandinavian peoples as those comprising the tribes of lost Israel. On the other hand, the Jew has for them become the great enemy. This insistence on singling out Jewish people as the enemy of the white race is the Identity movement's most clear link to Adolf Hitler and his Nazi ideas. The more extreme groups believe in what is referred to as the "serpent seed" teaching that Eve and Satan had sexual intercourse and produced Cain, starting a line of half-devil people. For many Identity groups this imagined half-devil line of Cain is the Jewish race.

Pastor Arnold Murray, an Identity preacher from Gravette, Arkansas, calls them "Kenites" (an Old Testament people he identifies as "Cainites") and believes they were associated with Judah until they took over leadership of that tribe. These "Jews" were the people who killed Christ. Pastor Murray teaches that calling the Jews the chosen people of God is the gravest of sins. He says, "Bless your heart if you have ever been deceived by the Kenite, and I am speaking now on the spiritual level, if you have ever really believed that group was the chosen of God you were deceived by Satan. Repent of that even more so than your personal sins in the personal sense."[4]

Some other Identity teachers believe the Jews are children of Satan only in a figurative sense. But this really does not change their attitude toward Jewish people -- their statements about the Jews still reflect a deep hatred. One writes about the Jew: "We know that as a race, they have the sly characteristics of the serpent...We know they have intimidated and imposed their will on our own government and every government in the nations of Christendom, through their dominance of finance, government, church, education, and the media."[5] In this scenario, a political position begins to emerge: the Jews are placed in a position of conspirators with Satan to take dominion over the world. In an awful reversal of their biblical role, the true Jewish people are now cast as the archenemy of God and humanity. Claiming the sacred history and the sacred Book for themselves, Identity teachers remove all that is a part of the Jew's humanity.

Racism: The Basis of Identity Teaching

Racial bigotry extends far beyond the Jews in Identity teaching. Since the white race alone has descended from Adam, the other races are viewed as a prior creation. They insist that Genesis 1:24, which describes the creation of animals and is prior to the creation of Adam, includes a description of all nonwhite races. In that list of created beings -- "cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth" -- they single out the word beast as a description of other races. This of course means they believe the other races are inferior. All Identity teachers refer to the word beast to explain how other races escaped the flood; they were included among the creatures that Noah and his sons rounded up for the ark.

Because Identity teachers hold that the other races are of a different creation, they consider interracial marriage a sin. Identity teachers insist that interracial marriage was the cause of God's judgment on the people of Noah's time. Consistent with this twisted view of Scripture, they believe that to marry someone of another race is treason to one's own race. Pastor Pete Peters of La Porte, Colorado informs us that he teaches his children to never marry a person of another race. He adds: "I teach them also that if they ever did such a thing -- never to come around my house with their mate or their half-breed children because they've been traitors to their own sires."[6] Some teachers -- such as Richard Butler and his Aryan Nations, and Dan Gayman and his Church of Israel -- see the black race as aliens and cohorts with Satan, and all other races as creatures who, like animals, have no spirits. In the fantasy world of extreme Identity, when Lucifer rebels he uses spacecraft and fights battles against God with the help of beings from other planets. The alien beings are forced to earth according to one tape: "For the fleet...came to earth like crumpled birds and...some survived and...some were wiped out....the dark and curly-headed ones never before seen upon the earth, the coming of the Negroid race."[7]

Although Arnold Murray affirms that all the other races are good, he offers the public, without apology, the book Tracing Our Ancestors by Frederick Haberman. Haberman writes: "It must be noticed that there is a great difference between the three principal races of mankind...and there exists little relationship between the three. The white race were unquestionably the last comers, being in every way superior to the other two and constituting their leaders and teachers."[8] Pastor Murray also teaches that even among Christians the different races should have no fellowship.[9] All Identity groups certainly see the white race ruling over the other races.

Identity's Racist History

Racism as Science and History.

Many of Identity's racist ideas can be traced to the late 18th and early 19th centuries. Esoteric sounding theories, propagated by intellectuals and college professors of the day, were used to prove the inferiority of some races. These theories have been disproved by modern scholarship but are kept alive by the racist of today. One of the terms common to such theories was physiognomy, an ancient method for determining human character by the study of facial features. This included comparing those features to animal ones.[10] Also, many historians of the time were highly nationalistic and, therefore, prone to write with a high regard for the white race.

Religious Racism

Another form of racism developed along religious and nationalistic lines. The growing concern of the peoples in the West (including the United States) with their own national interest led to some strange ideas about national identity. In the United States a theory called "Manifest Destiny" evolved. That view included the understanding that it was the nation's God-given destiny to expand from the east coast to the west coast, and perhaps even to the southern end of Mexico. In England another movement began that would later blend well with the Manifest Destiny ideas held by some in the United States. This religious movement was nationalistic, assigning religious worth more to race than to righteousness.

The movement, Anglo-Israelism, began in 1870. It was founded by the Rev. John Wilson, a nonconformist minister who expounded the idea that the Anglo-Saxons were the supposed ten lost tribes of Israel. Believing the nations of western Europe and the United States to be God's chosen people, they expected them to receive all the promises God gave to Israel in the Old Testament.

Mr. Edward Hine brought the Anglo-Israelism movement to the United States in 1870, the same year the movement began in England. His efforts were mostly unfruitful, but his book, Identification of the British Nation with Lost Israel, is still used by adherents of Identity in the United States. Hine's book was first among a spate of Anglo-Israel literature published in the U. S. -- including a periodical published by Yale Professor Charles A. L. Totten called, Our Race, Its Origins and Its Destiny.[11] Today, with few exceptions (the Worldwide Church of God being one), most adherents of Anglo-Israelism are in the Identity movement.

The Turn toward Violence

Extreme racism entered Anglo-Israelism because some of its most prominent adherents were also connected to the Ku Klux Klan, and the Klan in turn had become interested in the Nazis. The KKK was born, without overt racist intentions, in 1867. Thomas F. Gossett, author of Race: The History of an Idea in America, notes that "the Klan originated as a lark among young men in southern Tennessee who -- so the story goes -- chose this method of visiting their sweethearts attired in their version of the costume of Knights of old and discovered accidentally that they were terrifying the Negroes."[12] The Klan grew in its attempt to control black people during the Reconstruction period. The methods included "assassination, whipping, tarring and feathering."[13] The Klan during the 1920s added the Jew and Catholic to their list of enemies in an attempt to attract more members. By 1923 membership had reached between three and six million people. Decline came with the depression of the 1930s and also with the Ku Klux Klan's overtures to the American arm of the Nazi party before the Second World War.[14]

The merging of Klan and Nazi extremism into the Anglo-Israelism movement -- which then produced the Identity movement -- can largely be traced to one man: Wesley Swift. However, it was not Swift but Howard B. Rand (whose writings are published by Destiny Publishers) who first coined the term Identity. According to James Coates, Rand's intention was "to describe Hine's concept of Anglo-Israelism, in which Jesus was not a Jew of the tribe of Judah but an Aryan of the ten lost tribes of Israel and an ancestor of the present British, Germanic and Scandinavian people."[15]

Wesley Swift was a prolific speaker and his tapes and written messages are frequently used by Identity speakers. His connections to the Nazism of Hitler's Germany are unquestionable. Swift was at one time both a friend and advance man for Gerald L. K. Smith, a racist whose radical career began when he joined the "Silver Shirts," an American Nazi group formed by Willam Pelley. James Ridgeway, author of Blood in the Face (a "who's-who of hate"), notes that "with Pelley as their 'Chief,' the Silver Shirts openly supported Hitler, cooperated with the pro-Nazi German-American Bund, and embarked on a program of vicious anti-Semitism."[16]

Swift was also a member of the Ku Klux Klan when he founded the Identity Church of Jesus Christ Christian in 1946. Richard Butler, who was led into the Identity movement by Wesley Swift, inherited Swift's church and founded an Identity compound called the Aryan Nations, located near Hayden Lake, Idaho. Butler is an advocate of Nazism, and his yearly Aryan Nations meetings attract Klan members, Nazi groups, and skinheads. Some Identity teachers, although racist, reject Nazism in name, attributing its cause to the Jews. This trend has started a new controversy within the ranks of Identity. The Identity groups who reject Nazism also do so because they are perceptive enough to recognize Nazism's ingrained hatred of true Christianity.

[greenbear]

continued

Identity's Spiritual History

The list of spiritual influences touching Identity resembles a religious vanity fair. The Neo-Nazi movement embraces the zodiac of astrology as easily as it does the teaching of the quietest mystic Madame Guyon. Its teachers write against the New Age movement while embracing occultist Edgar Cayce. They also welcome the deliverance ministries (those ministries that specialize in the controversial practice of casting demons out of Christians) while embracing the world of the occult.

Occult Influence

Some of the groups that reject Nazism seem to feature less occult teaching within their published material. However, except for racist literature, occult teachings have probably had the greatest influence on most Identity groups and individuals. This may have partly developed from prewar occultic German groups that were also anti-Semitic. German cults such as the Alder and Falken and the Geusen worshiped the sun. And one influence on Hitler was a group whose emphasis on German nationality was connected to their interest in the Druids -- an ancient pagan people many Identity groups also embrace.[17]

Wesley Swift used occult legends as "truths" in his sermons. His bizarre teachings included stories about Atlantis and Lemuria, fictional civilizations included in most occult philosophy. Identity teachers of today such as Pastor Arnold Murray maintain that the great Pyramid was built by the Israelites and is a second revelation of God. The idea that the measurements of the pyramid are encoded with a revealed message is occultic, since the message is both supernaturally given and esoteric, known only by those initiated into that knowledge. Identity also embraces astrology and occultic tales of Jesus visiting Britain.

Other Streams of Religious Influence

Because many Identity adherents are people with a history of looking for "new truths," they often come to Identity from other religious movements, bringing some of their unique doctrines with them. Thus the teachings of several smaller religious groups have been added to the racist teachings of Identity. These include the Sacred Name movement (using only Yahweh for God and Yehoshua or some equivalent for Jesus); Jesus Only teaching (the belief that there are not three persons in the Godhead, only three offices); and the fringe teachings of the "manifest sons of God" (the expectation that an elite group of the church will deliver creation, overcome death, and help God bring in the kingdom). A few people came out of the restoration and charismatic movements and added their unique doctrines to Identity. The restoration movement teaches that God is restoring lost doctrines to the church. Utilizing this framework, the Identity teachers include Identity as one of the lost doctrines. (It is important to point out that although Identity teachers variously link Identity to the above movements and teachings, properly speaking these movements have nothing to do with Identity.)

The Bonding Link of Conspiracy

The Identity stand against the Jews as a people without value who are enemies of the white race aligns the movement with other groups that feed constantly on conspiracy theories, including ones that are Nazi without teaching Anglo-Israelism. This taste for anti-Semitism is most responsible for the intermingling of Identity, Neo-Nazi, and other racist groups. Different groups will often use the same speakers at their various churches and survivalist camps. And individual members of different groups will order the same books from racist publishers.

For instance, many Identity groups offer books by E. Raymond Capt and also use him as a speaker, since his specialty is supposedly archaeology and history. Capt's writing includes such books as Stonehenge and Druidism and The Traditions of Glastonbury: The Silent Years of Jesus between 12 and 30. Another speaker used by most groups is Lt. Col. Jack Mohr, whose specialty is anti-Communism. Mohr offers such tapes as "Background to Betrayal: How America Has Been Betrayed by Zionists Both Jewish and Christian." Many racist groups, including Identity groups, sell or refer to the book, Protocols of the Elders of Zion. This fraudulent book is supposedly a document of conspiracy by Jewish leaders to take over the world.

Most conspiracy theories have developed from a particular fear -- and the need to master that fear, by identifying a cause and then supposedly gaining control of the situation. For instance, the cause of the Black Plague in the Middle Ages was attributed to the Jew. The solution espoused was to kill or remove the Jews. Then the plague would supposedly end. The disastrous condition of Germany after the First World War was attributed to the Jew by some fearful Germans. Eventually their evil solution brought about the Holocaust. And while the John Birch Society changed most of the leading players in their conspiracy theory to what they call the "insiders" rather than Jews, many others still see the Jew as the monster controlling world events. For these anti-Semites the Jew is often referred to as the "International Banker."

All of these groups together, both Identity and non-Identity white supremacist, hold a dangerous sociopolitical view. Their mutual solution to this supposed "Jewish control" is a race war. This war is considered by many Identity teachers to be the last great battle, Armageddon.

According to these teachers, at the head of this conspiracy that leads to the final battle is ZOG: Zionist Occupation Government. Zionist Occupation Government simply means to Identity adherents that the Jewish conspiracy has taken over the government of the United States. Since they also believe that Jewish leaders are using other races to destroy the white race, the final battle pits the white race against virtually all others. And, because they constantly feed on conspiracy theories that involve those whose beliefs or politics oppose their own, Identity's political and religious opposites are also considered their enemies. Furthermore, they do not have to love their enemies because they consider most of them subhuman.

The Parasitic Existence of Identity

The farm crisis is an important source for Identity propaganda. Using such tapes as "A Biblical Look at the Farm Problem," they prey on farmers who are losing their farms.[18] Some Identity teachers are suggesting that ZOG or the Jews are behind the loss of the farms. They have managed to pull a few farmers into the movement through these tactics. This kind of parasitic existence is typical of Identity extremism. They appeal to other conservatives concerning such issues as AIDS, abortion, and prison reform. This is where some Christians have been pulled into the circle of Identity.

Many Christians find they are facing a bewildering morass of social problems. For some this has led to a deeper understanding of God's sovereignty, and a greater dependence on His grace and mercy to sinners. For others there is the enticing reach for the quick answer. And this has meant a return to philosophies that are void of grace. At this point it is possible for the bits and pieces of Identity to seep in. Christians who are far from Identity's blatant racism nonetheless allow Identity's attitudes and world view -- including conspiracy theories -- to touch the core of their faith. Turning to ideas, news sources, and leaders who lack an understanding of the true gospel, these Christians accept into their beliefs and their publications concepts that are not biblical.

God's Answer to Racism

The psalmist wrote, "Thy word I have treasured in my heart, that I may not sin against thee" (Ps. 119:11). A lack of biblical teaching in differing ages has often opened the door for both heresy and sin within the Christian community.

In the Nazi era a great deal of Old Testament Scripture had already been rejected by many liberal scholars, mainly in Germany. Unlike the Identity movement of today, which accepts all of the Bible as inspired, the Nazis who considered themselves "Christian" were able to divorce the Jewish foundation of Christianity by simply disconnecting Christianity from both the Old Testament and Paul. Most of the "German Christians" -- those loyal to Hitler -- based their religious views on a kind of nationalistic nonsectarian ethic.

Franklin Littell, Professor of Religion at Temple University, points out that this German understanding of Christianity was not unlike John Birch Society founder Robert Welch's "ecstatic affirmation of non-sectarian religion," found in Welch's The Blue Book. Littell writes: "The 'German Christians' were at least logical enough to press the religion of the ethnic base, infused with spirituality, to its logical conclusion: antisemitism."[19] The point is: without a biblical basis, without Jesus Christ as Lord, any religion, even one named Christian -- especially one named Christian, can produce gross evil.

Although the religious teachers of "Christian Identity" do not reject the Old Testament or Paul, they distort and twist Scripture until little is left of God's revelation of good news. The Identity teachers' conclusion that the British, Scandinavian, and Germanic peoples are the lost tribes of Israel is a case in point. None of the tribes of Israel have been lost. While many of the northern tribes of Israel -- carried into exile by Assyria -- intermarried with the peoples they lived among, there is no biblical reference that would encourage this teaching of lost tribes.

Christ's statement that He "was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matt. 15:24) is not a reference to tribes that had physically disappeared, but to a people who were lost in sin. Earlier in the text Jesus had sent His twelve disciples "to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matt. 10:6), and the disciples did not need to search for the people they were sent to help. After the captivity of the Northern Kingdom of Israel and the Babylonian captivity of the Southern Kingdom of Judah, all twelve tribes -- whether living outside of the homeland or within the homeland -- were referred to as both Jews and Israel. Both the Book of Ezra and the Book of Nehemiah, books about the return of God's people to Jerusalem after their captivity, use the two terms, Jews and Israel, to refer to the same people (e.g., Ezra 2:26; 4:12; Neh. 1:6; 4:1-2).

Paul refers to himself as both a Jew and an Israelite. Writing of God's enduring of the "vessels of wrath" for the sake of those He would show mercy to, he notes: "And He did so in order that He might make known the riches of His glory upon the vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles" (Rom. 9:23-24). In the same chapter he writes: "For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh, who are Israelites" (Rom. 9:3-4). Luke in the second chapter of Acts records the fact that Jerusalem was filled at Pentecost with Jews from many lands, and when Peter addresses them he refers to them as "men of Israel." Jesus explained to the Samaritan woman that "we worship that which we know, for salvation is from the Jews" (John 4:22), not only calling Himself a Jew but pointing her toward the Jewish people, whom God had chosen to bless the world through the promised Messiah.[20]

Once the error of Anglo-Israelism is exposed it leaves the Identity believer in a very damning position -- Identity adherents are not the chosen people, rather they are the ones attacking the chosen people, the Jews. And they are also the ones ranting against the true church of Christ. They are, in fact, attacking God, for their attempt to relegate other races to an earlier and inferior creation is an attack on the love of God, as well as the image of God in all humanity. It is the image of God in humans that sets them apart from all other creatures and prepares the way for Christ to take unto Himself human flesh and redeem people of all races. The biblical themes of redemption, the Incarnation, and the unity of humanity ("every nation and race") are constantly blended together in Scripture.

When Paul preached to the Athenians on Mars Hill he appealed to their common humanity as creations of the true God when he stated: "And He made from one, every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times, and the boundaries of their habitation, that they should seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us" (Acts 17:26-27). Genesis 10:1-32 names most of the nations that developed from the three sons of Noah. Derek Kidner, author of Genesis in the Tyndale Old Testament Commentaries, writes: "Not every nation known to the Old Testament is enrolled here, but enough are present to make the point that mankind is one, for all its diversity, under the one creator. Possibly the seventy names (Lxx 72) influenced our Lord's choice of this apparently symbolic number of emissaries in Luke 10:1."[21]

Jesus Christ is God's answer to racism. Paul admonishes the Galatians that they are to make no distinctions among those belonging to Christ; they are to be as one: "For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Gal. 3:27-28). In the Book of Revelation, where Christ is pictured as both "the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah" and "a Lamb standing, as if slain," the 24 Elders sing to His glory: "For Thou wast slain, and didst purchase for God with Thy blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. And thou hast made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth" (Rev. 5:9-10).

The church, those redeemed not by race but by the blood of Christ the Lamb, understand Christ as both lion and lamb, both sacrifice and King. Wilhelm Niemoller, one of the members of the Confessing Church in Germany during the time of Hitler, wrote of what it meant to confess Christ as the only Lord under that regime: "One of my friends concluded a sermon of his in 1934 or 1935 by saying: 'O Lord, Thou alone art our hope, apart from Thee, I know none!' He was arrested, put on trial, and later released. The enemies that listened to him had noticed that the Third Reich was put in a difficult position wherever the 'One Word of God' made its appearance."[22] The Neo-Nazi groups and those who feed on their hate literature are simply a part of the rising paganism in America. They are also an extreme example of groups who like to use Christian terminology while laying foundations on extrabiblical revelation. The need for present security, elitism, power, and a revelation not anchored in Christ and the Word of God is the mark of anti-Christian religion.

The believer's only haven is Christ. This means there is no present worldly security -- the believer is not an elite person. Instead, members of Christ's church are often the ones hated and despised by the nations. The only power given is that which Christ gives, so that His followers may be able to faithfully love, serve, and suffer in this present world. Finally, the believer finds racial pride to be sin, because the only exaltation a Christian knows is God's unmerited grace, freely offered to all in Jesus Christ.

Previously the director of Apologetics Resource Center, Sacramento, California, Viola Larson is a graduate student in history at California State University, Sacramento.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTES

1. John E. Yang, "Separatist Surrenders in Idaho," Sacramento Bee, 1 September 1992, part A.

2. "U.S. Hate Groups Spread Their Venom to Germany," Sacramento Bee, 14 August 1992, part A.

3. Ibid.

4. Arnold Murray, Grace: Baptism (cassette #406) (Gravette, AR: Shepherd's Chapel, n.d.).

5. Jack Mohr, "Seed of Satan: Literal or Figurative?" (Louis, MI: n.p., n.d.) 26.

6. Pete Peters, Inter-Racial Marriage, part l (cassette 170) (La Porte, CO: Scriptures for America, n.d.).

7. Wesley Swift, Dwellers in the Deep (cassette 350) (Waynesville, NC: New Beginnings, 1964).

8. Federick Haberman, Tracing Our Ancestors (n.p., n.d.), 10. Reference is made within the book to Hitler in Germany, dating the book sometime before World War II.

9. Murray, Grace: Baptism.

10. Thomas F. Gossett, Race: The History of an Idea in America (New York: Schocken Books, 1965), 71.

11. James Coates (New York: Hill and Wang, Farrar, Straus, and Giroux, 1987), 181; Gossett, 192. [Back] 12. Gossett, 259-60.

13. Ibid., 260.

14. Coates, 33-36.

15. Ibid., 93.

16. James Ridgeway, Blood in the Face: The Ku Klux Klan, Aryan Nations, Skinheads, and the Rise of a New White Culture(New York: Thunder's Mouth Press, 1990), 45.

17. George L. Mosse, The Crisis of German Ideology: Intellectual Origins of the Third Reich (New York: Schocken Books, 1981), 75, 116, 277.

18. Pete Peters, A Biblical Look at the Farm Problems (cassette 161) (La Porte, CO: Scriptures for America, n.d.).

19. Frank H. Littell, "Church Struggle and the Holocaust," in The German Church Struggle and the Holocaust, ed. Frank H. Littell and Hubert G. Locke (Detroit: Wayne State University Press, 1974), 25-26.

20. One excellent reference for the subject of Anglo-Israelism is Walter R. Martin's The Kingdom of the Cults, ch. 12 (Bethany, revised and expanded edition, 1985). Also see, J.K. Van Baalen, The Chaos of Cults: A Study in Present-Day Isms, ch. 9 (Eerdmans, 1967), and Anton Darms, The Delusion of British-Israelism (Loizeaux Brothers, Bible Truth Depot, n.d.), written before the establishment of the State of Israel. This latter book is written from a dispensational view.

21. Derek Kidner, Genesis: An Introduction and Commentary, Old Testament Commentaries, ed. D.J. Wisemam (Downer Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press, 1989), 104-5.

22. Wilhelm Niemller, "The Niemller Archives," in Littell and Locke, 55.

Work Cited

Larson, Viola. "Identity: A 'Christian' Religion for White Racists" Christian Research Journal, Fall 1992, p. 20

[illumin19]

I'm fairly acquainted with this set of beliefs and have "heard" of this before.

I'm not racist at all but understand where "they're coming from".
If you follow history with an objective view point, meaning really trying to see both sides of the coin before accepting either side or denying both, you'll open your mind a lot.


I'm a mutt myself with a little bit of everything in my veins so I am sympathetic to no "race" or set of DNA. I only seek truth in whatever manner it presents itself, the hardest part for everybody (including myself) is being able to accept the way it comes to you though it may go against everything you were made to believe or accept in your lifetime.

[Book]

http://jonathanmurray.com/images/churchlady.jpg

Christian-Zionism is better...lol.

:D

[singular_me]

I just scanned through, the essay is much too long and additonally evades the broader picture.

if history is any indication, it seems like a white supremacist issue... all the cinqquests achieved in the name of the Roman Church over the last 1000 years have been over resources, there never were any good intentions behind it. The vaste majority of Christians are completely oblivous to history.

When a behavior is unethical at the core, it can only lead to more deceptions and (positive and negative) schisms.


ps: there are many well intentioned Christians in here, my brief conclusion is not aimed at them. Just dont fall into the "us versus them" trap

[LuckyStrike]

FWIW the source is heavily pro jewish.

Which of course is the equivalent of posting something about the ADL with your source being Stormfront.

This is a quote from the site.

"This site is intended for educational purposes to teach about the Holocaust and to combat hatred. Any statements or excerpts found on this site are for educational purposes only.

As part of these educational purposes, Nizkor may include on this website materials, such as excerpts from the writings of racists and antisemites. Far from approving these writings, Nizkor condemns them and provides them so that its readers can learn the nature and extent of hate and antisemitic discourse. Nizkor urges the readers of these pages to condemn racist and hate speech in all of its forms and manifestations."


Basically saying, I'm intolerant of intolerance. Of course I don't expect many to see the accurate irony depicted by websites of that nature.

[hoarder]

Nizkor has an excellent page on logic here http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

It's pretty ironic that they hide behind logic that they are not willing to use by having a public debate of this supposed hollow-cost they keep referring to.

Maybe they put up that page for psychological effect.

The page itself is worth bookmarking, though.

[greenbear]

I haven't seen anyone deny the religious beliefs of Christian Identity as portrayed in the essay are true.

[StackerKen]

FWIW the source is heavily pro jewish.



i found the same article here
http://www.equip.org/articles/christian-identity-a-christian-religion-for-white-racists

Is that site " pro jewish" too?

[Quantum]

I'm not going to respond point by point to the crap posted above, but here are some general responses to key points of contention.

FACT #1) Nizkweer is run by a homosexual Zionist by the name of Ken McVay. His work in promoting the religion of the "Holocaust" has earned him a mountain of personal rewards, including a steady, hefty income. He is a model for the modern Judas.

FACT #2) Christian Identity's use of the term Christian is not blasphemous. Instead, the application of the term "Christian" to Jew-worship and interracial abomination is blasphemous.

FACT #3) Jesus Christ is the redeemer of the Adamic races only. Universalism is a Babylonian abomination.

FACT #4) Randy Weaver was entrapped by Federal prostitutes on "weapons" charges.

FACT #5) Jesus Christ Himself defined modern "Jews" (followers of the Pharisees and their Talmud) as "sons of their father the Devil." Have a problem with Identity's naming of the Jew as Satanic? Take it up with Christ.

FACT #6) Modern "Jews" (99% of whom are Khazar or North African, not Hebrew, in origin) are not "God's Chosen People." If they were, they would follow God's Son.

FACT #7) Only White people (peoples commonly called "Aryan"/"Caucasian"/"Mediterranean") are descendants of Adam.

FACT #8) No Bible-believing Identity Christian embraces Judeo-Masonic or other occult abominations. Discussions or embrace of little-known archaeology is not "occultism."

FACT #9) God's name is YHWH, usually rendered in English as Yahweh or Jehovah. His name is important and to be revered. The prohibition on profaning His name applies only to His name, not to His title, "God" or "Lord." Even the respectable KJV Bible got it wrong, and rendered YHWH as "LORD" most of the time.

FACT #10) God is a racist. God violently separated the ADAMIC races at Babel. God annihilated the mixed races of Noah's world (Noah was spared because he was "perfect in his generations"). Our modern world is a reflection of Noah's world, as Christ warned it would be. The worship of mixed-race abominations like Obama and so many "stars" in sports and "entertainment" are a harbinger of the End of the World, not something to be celebrated.

FACT #11) No matter your stance on him, Adolf Hitler remained far more a devotee of the Christ than the ever-worshiped demons of the Allies. But you probably won't want to hear that since you are under the demonic spell of the Jewsmedia.

FACT #12) There is much evidence to support the belief that the Lost Tribes did cross into Central Asia, and then advanced into Europe, becoming some of the ancestors of the modern Europeans. The blessings of Israel are held by Christendom, which was and remains the domain of the Europeans worldwide, despite the nonsense "conversions for a bag of rice" seen worldwide amongst the pre-Adamites starting around 500 years ago.

FACT #13) Jesus Christ was a Judean, of the tribe of Judah. Ignorance led to the confusion of the term "Jew" being applied to both Judeans and to modern "Jews."

FACT #14) The religion of the Israelites is today called Christianity, not "Judaism." Judaism is the work of the Devil, transmitted via the Babylonian Talmud.

FACT #15) The Image of God is the Adam-Man. Other members of the genus Homo are not "bad" but merely previous creations of God. The mixture of the Image of God with lesser forms of beings is an abomination to God.

FACT #16) Viola Larson is an unhinged Judeophile, placing the modern "Jews" higher than Christ in her "faith." She dismisses countless scriptural evidences that the modern "Jews" are not only not the Chosen People, but are the Servants of the Devil - including the words of her alleged Savior.

[Quantum]

I'm a mutt myself with a little bit of everything in my veins so I am sympathetic to no "race" or set of DNA. I only seek truth in whatever manner it presents itself, the hardest part for everybody (including myself) is being able to accept the way it comes to you though it may go against everything you were made to believe or accept in your lifetime.


Are you truly a "mutt," or merely the descendant of different tribes of the same people of the distant past?

The facts about race are very difficult for most to accept because they want to believe lies. Many "White" people are actually mulattoes or mestizos or Eurasians. Many Whites are mated with non-Whites. Many are otherwise unequally yoked with non-Whites. The possibility that they or someone they know made a horrible mistake is something they cannot accept. You can't unscramble an egg. In the Biblical days, God's people would put away relationships that were abominations, but now, they are fanatically pushed by every denomination, with devil-doers amongst the Lutherans, Catholics, and Methodists, in particular, collecting non-Whites from across the face of the Earth for "integration" into Adamic homelands and blood-lines.

[StackerKen]

Acts 17:26
And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,

Is that a lie??

I don't think so.

[Quantum]

Acts 17:26
And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,

Is that a lie??

I don't think so.


Define "mankind."

Define "earth."

[StackerKen]

Acts 17:26
And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,

Is that a lie??

I don't think so.



Define "mankind."

Define "earth."





Nothing personal...and with all due respect....

Those questions sound like something Bill Clinton would ask...

or Satan...ie, "Hath God truly said?"


I would define "Mankind" as all Men, women and children.

I would define "earth" as this planet that we live on.

What kind of questions are those anyway?

[Quantum]

Acts 17:26
And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,

Is that a lie??

I don't think so.



Define "mankind."

Define "earth."





Nothing personal...and with all due respect....

Those questions sound like something Bill Clinton would ask...

or Satan...ie, "Hath God truly said?"


I would define "Mankind" as all Men, women and children.

I would define "earth" as this planet that we live on.

What kind of questions are those anyway?


Serious and totally legitimate questions.

Was Luke lying at 2:1?

"And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed."

Did the Aborigines send in their taxes? How about the South African Bushmen? The Incas?

The words of the Bible often meant something different than they did in the original or in the time of the writing.

I put forth that "men" and "mankind" in the Biblical (and correct) sense refer to Adamites (Caucasians). I put forth that "earth" refers to the then known world.

[StackerKen]

I understand what you are saying. with that last post....

kinda like in Psalm 50:10 "and the cattle on a thousand hills."
is a "figure of speech"

But I maintain that all men on this planet came though Noah and his sons.

How do you get around that?

[Quantum]

I understand what you are saying. with that last post....

kinda like in Psalm 50:10 "and the cattle on a thousand hills."
is a "figure of speech"

But I maintain that all men on this planet came though Noah and his sons.

How do you get around that?


I "get around it" because it's not true.

"Adam" the name means to blush. People who blush are White people. Black and brown people do not come from White people. God's servants ignored the Black, Brown, and Yellow worlds for the vast part of history, focusing only on the White world of Europe and the Middle/Near East. Logical conclusion: Black and brown people are not Adamites. This doesn't mean they're "bad," just not the same as Adam-man. All of God's creation is "good." Black & Brown people not under the influence of Satan's children, the modern "Jews," are not bad people.

[StackerKen]

Can these "Black and brown people" have the salvation that Christ offers?

[goldmonkey]

Acts 17:26
And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,

Is that a lie??

I don't think so.

Just out of curiosity, what does nation mean? Does it mean race?


nation
• noun a large body of people united by common descent, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular state or territory.
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/nation?view=uk

A nation is a grouping of people who share common history, culture, language and ethnic origin, often possessing or seeking its own government.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation#cite_note-0

Doesn't multiculturalism/multiracialism violate the boundaries of the allotted dwelling place?

[StackerKen]

Originally, written Hebrew used only consonants. The name ‘Adam’ comprises the same consonants as does the name ‘Edom’ (aleph; daleth; mem). Edom was Esau, the brother of Jacob; people called him Edom because he had red hair (Genesis 25:25,29). So if ‘red’ is implied in Adam’s name, it doesn’t have to refer to blushing. It could refer to the red colour of the dirt that God used to make Adam.

The Hebrew word for ‘ground’ – ădāmah – comprises the same consonants used in the name ‘Adam’ (the final ‘h’ is the singular feminine ending). In this case, the ‘red’ may refer to the colour of Adam and Eve’s skin, which would be similar to that of indigenous (Indian) Americans.

This connection – our connection – to the ground might be God’s reminder to us: ‘By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.’ (Genesis 3:19)

2. The name ‘Adam’ is also the generic word for ‘humanity’. All humans have the capacity to blush, irrespective of their race, so this destroys the argument that the ‘red’ of Adam’s name means ‘to blush’, and only white people blush.

There are two intriguing and disturbing implications of the ‘red means blushing’ theory. Mark Twain commented, ‘Humans are the only animals who blush — or who need to.’ Before the Fall, there was no shame and no embarrassment. Why would a person blush if they have nothing to be ashamed of or embarrassed about? But the ‘blushing’ theory means that God named Adam before the Fall: ‘the blushing one’. For the Hebrew, the name of a thing was also its character, such as the name ‘Jacob’ could figuratively mean, ‘he deceives’. This being so, the inference is that God was responsible for Adam’s rebellion – before Adam sinned and had reason to blush, God named him for the display of embarrassment brought about by sin! That isn’t God.

The second implication is this: Adam and Eve were responsible for rebelling against God and bringing sin, evil, sickness, decay and death into the world. And they were … white, was it?

[StackerKen]

Goldmonkey....I honestly do not know.....Im just a simple man...

I don't think I really need to know this stuff to be saved...

But it does make an interesting debate.

[StackerKen]

New International Version (©1984)
Miriam and Aaron began to talk against Moses because of his Cush*te wife, for he had married a Cush*te.

New Living Translation (©2007)
While they were at Hazeroth, Miriam and Aaron criticized Moses because he had married a Cush*te woman.

English Standard Version (©2001)
Miriam and Aaron spoke against Moses because of the Cush*te woman whom he had married, for he had married a Cush*te woman.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Then Miriam and Aaron spoke against Moses because of the Cush*te woman whom he had married (for he had married a Cush*te woman);

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Miriam and Aaron began to criticize Moses because he was married to a woman from Sudan.

King James Bible
And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman.

.................................................. ....................
image search for" Cush*te"
http://www.google.com/images?q=Cush*te&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=A4PgS-S5E4KasgPGwsygBg&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CCoQsAQwAw

[LuckyStrike]

Goldmonkey....I honestly do not know.....Im just a simple man...

I don't think I really need to know this stuff to be saved...

But it does make an interesting debate.


Ken what does James 1:1 say?

The entire Bible is written to, for and about Israel (the Descendants of Jacob) nobody else.

I can write a letter to you saying I'm going to give you 100 dollars, but if greenbear reads it does that mean she gets 100 dollars to?

FWIW I am in the process of emailing you to hopefully clarify our discussion the other day.


One thing that never gets addressed by judeos is when Yahweh says he loved Jacob and HATED Esau (Edom) where do you think these edomites are today? That is what CI does, it identifies the descendants of jacob as well as esau and back it up with historical and archaeological information.

The edomites fear CI more than anything else because if the word spreads then their jig is up. So using Christ's enemy as a source is quite suspect OP.

[LuckyStrike]

FWIW the source is heavily pro jewish.



i found the same article here
http://www.equip.org/articles/christian-identity-a-christian-religion-for-white-racists

Is that site " pro jewish" too?




Ken that is the exact same article reposted on a Christian zionist website.

[StackerKen]

Nordic...Yes James may have been originally written to the twelve tribes.

But what about Romans?
The church in Romans had Gentiles as members also.

and it is Clear that salvation is for both the jew and the gentile

I am losing track of what we are really even discussing here....lol

Who exactly was white again????

the Jews?...or the Gentiles?

[StackerKen]

I don't this that site is a Christian zionist site

what makes you think it is?

[illumin19]

I'm a mutt myself with a little bit of everything in my veins so I am sympathetic to no "race" or set of DNA. I only seek truth in whatever manner it presents itself, the hardest part for everybody (including myself) is being able to accept the way it comes to you though it may go against everything you were made to believe or accept in your lifetime.


Are you truly a "mutt," or merely the descendant of different tribes of the same people of the distant past?

The facts about race are very difficult for most to accept because they want to believe lies. Many "White" people are actually mulattoes or mestizos or Eurasians. Many Whites are mated with non-Whites. Many are otherwise unequally yoked with non-Whites. The possibility that they or someone they know made a horrible mistake is something they cannot accept. You can't unscramble an egg. In the Biblical days, God's people would put away relationships that were abominations, but now, they are fanatically pushed by every denomination, with devil-doers amongst the Lutherans, Catholics, and Methodists, in particular, collecting non-Whites from across the face of the Earth for "integration" into Adamic homelands and blood-lines.


ahhhhh, I love eggs :D scrambled or over easy.....

In all seriousness though, I'd have to get my DNA analyzed because of both sides of family (grandparents) were orphans, or didn't know their parents. :-[


ONe grandma of mine told me her family were redheads and I guess that explains the reddish goatee of mine. Another side looks asian mixed with middle eastern hahahha.

Gotta go get the blood samples in the lab ;D

[LuckyStrike]

Nordic...Yes James may have been originally written to the twelve tribes.

But what about Romans?
The church in Romans had Gentiles as members also.

and it is Clear that salvation is for both the jew and the gentile

I am losing track of what we are really even discussing here....lol

Who exactly was white again????

the Jews?...or the Gentiles?


Ken do you know what gentile means? It is translated from the greek word ethnos which means "race, tribe, or nation" so when it says "to the jew and genitle, it is (judahite and the tribe or nation of Israel (the 10 northern tribes))

[greenbear]

Acts 17:26
And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,

Is that a lie??

I don't think so.



Define "mankind."

Define "earth."





Nothing personal...and with all due respect....

Those questions sound like something Bill Clinton would ask...

or Satan...ie, "Hath God truly said?"


I would define "Mankind" as all Men, women and children.

I would define "earth" as this planet that we live on.

What kind of questions are those anyway?


Serious and totally legitimate questions.

Was Luke lying at 2:1?

"And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed."

Did the Aborigines send in their taxes? How about the South African Bushmen? The Incas?

The words of the Bible often meant something different than they did in the original or in the time of the writing.

I put forth that "men" and "mankind" in the Biblical (and correct) sense refer to Adamites (Caucasians). I put forth that "earth" refers to the then known world.


Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

I don't believe you would be correct in your assertion that "men' and "mankind" in the Biblical (which is always correct) sense refer to caucasians. Most scholars would say that Caucasians are descendants of Japheth. Jews, Orientals, and American natives (Indians), among others, are Semites, descendants of Shem.

The Bible is abundantly clear that all men are from the same blood:

Acts 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation.

Everything in the Bible points to Christ as the redeemer of all mankind. That is the overriding theme of the Bible, not the superiority of the white race.

[StackerKen]

Great point GB

[StackerKen]

Nordic...Yes James may have been originally written to the twelve tribes.

But what about Romans?
The church in Romans had Gentiles as members also.

and it is Clear that salvation is for both the jew and the gentile

I am losing track of what we are really even discussing here....lol

Who exactly was white again????

the Jews?...or the Gentiles?


Ken do you know what gentile means? It is translated from the greek word ethnos which means "race, tribe, or nation" so when it says "to the jew and genitle, it is (judahite and the tribe or nation of Israel (the 10 northern tribes))




Im not buying that

.........................

edit; From wiki

In the New Testament, the word translates Greek terms for peoples in general, and is used specifically to indicate non-Jewish peoples, as in Jesus's command to the apostles in

Matthew chapter 10:
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Here Gentiles becomes a synonym for pagan cultures of the period.

[LuckyStrike]

Nordic...Yes James may have been originally written to the twelve tribes.

But what about Romans?
The church in Romans had Gentiles as members also.

and it is Clear that salvation is for both the jew and the gentile

I am losing track of what we are really even discussing here....lol

Who exactly was white again????

the Jews?...or the Gentiles?


Ken do you know what gentile means? It is translated from the greek word ethnos which means "race, tribe, or nation" so when it says "to the jew and genitle, it is (judahite and the tribe or nation of Israel (the 10 northern tribes))




Im not buying that


Your words imply that I'm selling something.

I don't care if you believe the Truth or not I won't be judged for what you do only what I do.

[StackerKen]

Man I must really dumb...

Because I am completely lost on this subject and on this forum.

the Jews are/where white?

the jews are good or bad?

Gentiles are part of the 12 tribes?

Only white people are saved?

all other races are inferior?

Hmmm... ???

[StackerKen]

Your words imply that I'm selling something.

I don't care if you believe the Truth or not I won't be judged for what you do only what I do.


I meant that "i don't think so."

Nordic do you think it is important that i believe this stuff in order to be saved?

I need to believe that only whites are the chosen ones?

I am honestly not clear on what we are taliking about here

[StackerKen]

Obviously this stuff is wayyy over my head.

Im white (I think)

But I don't think it matters much to God.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. .

[LuckyStrike]

Your words imply that I'm selling something.

I don't care if you believe the Truth or not I won't be judged for what you do only what I do.


I meant that "i don't think so."

Nordic do you think it is important that i believe this stuff in order to be saved?

I need to believe that only whites are the chosen ones?

I am honestly not clear on what we are taliking about here


I think people need to believe the Truth in order to be redeemed yes.

Here is a rundown of what CI teaches.

As Genesis points out in 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

Adam means "able to show blood in the face" which is only a feature of the White race.

Christian Identity teaches that the 12 tribes migrated (as predicted in scripture) up into Europe and the different tribes settled the different countries (for example "British" means Covenant Man) If you are interested in the Migrations of the tribes http://anglo-saxonisrael.com/site/migchron

I'm sure you are aware of the 50 Reasons The Jews Are Not Israel which I posted. Let me ask you, who does fit all those prophecies?

The word jew in the bible is the greek judean. Which is a region started by the Judahites. The short answer is the descendants of esau who God hates were assimilated into Judea and assumed the term jew, which is nowhere to be found in the greek.

This is where the verses Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 come into play

9I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews (JUDAH), and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Take this example. 150 years ago if you had been discussing someone from Detroit everyone would assume you are talking about a White person. Now if you discuss Detroit everyone assumes your talking about a black person. So you can see how grouping by geographic regions isn't very useful.

It is also noteworthy that several hundred years transpire between the old and new testaments so when you consider how much do you know about your ancestors from 400 years ago? Probably not much if anything even with modern technology. So you can see how easy it was for Israel to forget it's identity.

[StackerKen]

Nordic Can you give me some insight on what you think Galatians 3:28 means?

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. .

[7th trump]

Nordic...Yes James may have been originally written to the twelve tribes.

But what about Romans?
The church in Romans had Gentiles as members also.

and it is Clear that salvation is for both the jew and the gentile

I am losing track of what we are really even discussing here....lol

Who exactly was white again????

the Jews?...or the Gentiles?


Ken do you know what gentile means? It is translated from the greek word ethnos which means "race, tribe, or nation" so when it says "to the jew and genitle, it is (judahite and the tribe or nation of Israel (the 10 northern tribes))




Im not buying that


Your words imply that I'm selling something.

I don't care if you believe the Truth or not I won't be judged for what you do only what I do.

The gentiles are the colored races.
There is no medical or science that concludes that all the races came from one couple, adam and eve. Its an imposibility.
There are two adam and eves. You will not find any of this in any Bible. You have to look at the original manuscripts if you can get a copy to see this.
There is a formed from earth 6th day creation where all the races are created and then an 8th day creation where a second is created white race that would bring forth Christ.
Christ is not asian nor black nor red nor yellow. Hes anglo-saxon white which is not asain white. Take a look at any japanese and switch the heads and you will not know a difference in body shape or color. Size maybe but not in color.
Most when reading the Bible think that right after the 7th day of rest God is recaping what he created. But that is not so.

[7th trump]

Nordic Can you give me some insight on what you think Galatians 3:28 means?

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. .

I'll butt in here if you dont mind Ken.
What does he mean by male or female if this is supposed to be ethnic? Doesnt make sense if it was about race does it?
Its past tense for those (all races, gender and class) who found and allowed Christ in their life.

[StackerKen]

Nordic Can you give me some insight on what you think Galatians 3:28 means?

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. .

I'll butt in here if you dont mind Ken.
What does he mean by male or female if this is supposed to be ethnic? Doesnt make sense if it was about race does it?
Its past tense for those (all races, gender and class) who found and allowed Christ in their life.


Thanks for being patient with me 7th

Good...so In your opinion all races can come to to Christ and be saved?
(dumb question?)

So why are we even having this discussion?

whats it all mean?

what is the point here?

[Quantum]

Can these "Black and brown people" have the salvation that Christ offers?


They do not need it if they do not have the original sin of Adam.

[LuckyStrike]

Nordic Can you give me some insight on what you think Galatians 3:28 means?

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. .


Paul was speaking to Galatians (obviously)

However therein lies the rub, people don't think that Greeks are Israelites of the dispersion but see this article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galatia

I find this to be a more accurate translation from the Greek

28 There is not one Judaean or Greek, there is not one bondman or freeman, there is not one male and female; for all you are one in Christ Yahshua. 29 But if you are Christ’s, then of the offspring of Abraham you are heirs according to promise.


Until you understand the migrations of Israel in the link in an earlier post a lot of it is hard to sort out.

[7th trump]

Nordic Can you give me some insight on what you think Galatians 3:28 means?

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. .

I'll butt in here if you dont mind Ken.
What does he mean by male or female if this is supposed to be ethnic? Doesnt make sense if it was about race does it?
Its past tense for those (all races, gender and class) who found and allowed Christ in their life.


Thanks for being patient with me 7th

Good...so In your opinion all races can come to to Christ and be saved?
(dumb question?)
(You betcha Ken! And it is not a dumb question.)

So why are we even having this discussion?
(Probably because someone doesnt understand what they are reading and need clarification.)

whats it all mean?
(Not sure what you mean by that)

what is the point here?
( There is none)




It means

[LuckyStrike]

So why are we even having this discussion?

whats it all mean?

what is the point here?


The point IMO is that modern day jews are the descendants of Esau (who God hates) they are also 80%+ of Ashkenazi descent and have no ties to any early biblical writings. Judaism is not the Law given to Moses, but rather heretical anti Christian talmudic teachings. For examples of this heresy see the Kol Nidre, or what the talmud says about Jesus Christ.

Needless to say this as evidenced by scripture these "jews" are not Israel and are not God's chosen. In fact he says they are "of their father the devil" Yet today the Christian church has been hijacked into thinking otherwise.

That is the point. Only when you identify the enemy of Yahweh can you begin to comprehend the vast deceit which has been and is being played out.

[Quantum]

Originally, written Hebrew used only consonants. The name ‘Adam’ comprises the same consonants as does the name ‘Edom’ (aleph; daleth; mem). Edom was Esau, the brother of Jacob; people called him Edom because he had red hair (Genesis 25:25,29). So if ‘red’ is implied in Adam’s name, it doesn’t have to refer to blushing. It could refer to the red colour of the dirt that God used to make Adam.

The Hebrew word for ‘ground’ – ădāmah – comprises the same consonants used in the name ‘Adam’ (the final ‘h’ is the singular feminine ending). In this case, the ‘red’ may refer to the colour of Adam and Eve’s skin, which would be similar to that of indigenous (Indian) Americans.


Adam comes from the root shown at Strong's H119. "Ruddy." White people are "ruddy," non-Whites are not.

You're reaching desperately, Ken. Indians are not really "red" at all, but brown.

Even if the theory that Adam and Eve were Amerindian Mongoloids were true, that still means you have to explain how White people came from them. You can't. Except maybe by Darwinian evolution, LOL.




2. The name ‘Adam’ is also the generic word for ‘humanity’. All humans have the capacity to blush, irrespective of their race, so this destroys the argument that the ‘red’ of Adam’s name means ‘to blush’, and only white people blush.


LOL

Show me a full-blooded Black or Brown who blushes. To show blood in the face requires skin that permits red pigmentation to show.




There are two intriguing and disturbing implications of the ‘red means blushing’ theory. Mark Twain commented, ‘Humans are the only animals who blush — or who need to.’ Before the Fall, there was no shame and no embarrassment. Why would a person blush if they have nothing to be ashamed of or embarrassed about? But the ‘blushing’ theory means that God named Adam before the Fall: ‘the blushing one’. For the Hebrew, the name of a thing was also its character, such as the name ‘Jacob’ could figuratively mean, ‘he deceives’. This being so, the inference is that God was responsible for Adam’s rebellion – before Adam sinned and had reason to blush, God named him for the display of embarrassment brought about by sin! That isn’t God.


Fallacy. It is, wrongly, assumed that blushing results only from embarrassment.




The second implication is this: Adam and Eve were responsible for rebelling against God and bringing sin, evil, sickness, decay and death into the world. And they were … white, was it?


There is no question of this. White, Adam-man was created in the Image of God, and by choosing to eat the fruit, became self-aware like no other creature on Earth. And in so doing, began the path of wickedness we still suffer from today, until the full redemption in the next life.

[7th trump]

Can these "Black and brown people" have the salvation that Christ offers?


They do not need it if they do not have the original sin of Adam.



Anybody in the flesh is here to decide who they are going to follow, Christ or satan.
Ask yourself this Quantum. Were you around in the time of Adam and Eve and did you partake of the tree of knowledge of good and evil like Eve first and Adam second to think that any of this has to do with the sins of Adam?
Thats an uneducated answer quantum. How can any of us today have the original sin? I for one was not in the garden of eden at that time the serpent seduced Eve to partaking of the tree of knowledge.
How do you correlate the sin of adam of then to today?
Doesnt make any sense Quantum.

[StackerKen]

thanks 7th :)



So, Nordic are you of the opinion that the descendants of Esau can not be saved ?

[Quantum]

And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman.


Moses selected an Hamitic woman of Mediterranean race from the Cushite ("Ethiopian" erroneously used) peoples. He was wrongly denounced, similar to how a German might have taken a Sicilian woman a century ago, and got scowls from his extended family (my German grandmother called brunette Italians "black").

It is pure ignorance to assume that Moses' wife was a Negroid like Oprah Winfrey. She had olive skin, and dark hair. Big deal. Still Adamic. The ancient Ethiopians were Hamitic Adamites, and this remained so for their upper class until a few centuries ago. The major Caucasian influence still exists in the Ethiopian church elders. If anything modern Ethiopia is an illustration of what the abomination of race mixing does.

[StackerKen]

Quantum that particular post of mine that you quoted, was copy and paste...I should have made that clear...

[7th trump]

So why are we even having this discussion?

whats it all mean?

what is the point here?


The point IMO is that modern day jews are the descendants of Esau (who God hates) they are also 80%+ of Ashkenazi descent and have no ties to any early biblical writings. Judaism is not the Law given to Moses, but rather heretical anti Christian talmudic teachings. For examples of this heresy see the Kol Nidre, or what the talmud says about Jesus Christ.

Needless to say this as evidenced by scripture these "jews" are not Israel and are not God's chosen. In fact he says they are "of their father the devil" Yet today the Christian church has been hijacked into thinking otherwise.

That is the point. Only when you identify the enemy of Yahweh can you begin to comprehend the vast deceit which has been and is being played out.




Jesus said to learn the Parable of the Fig Tree. You understand the parable Ken and alot of confusion goes away.
The tree shoots forth figs, bad ones and good ones. Some call Esau's decendents Kenites and some call them Edomites. They are the same. Its these who Jesus addressed as liars who claim to be jews and are not, but having the devil as their father as they do their fathers works. This is the bad fig Ken and the good fig are the white anglo-saxon races. The colored races are the gentiles who have accepted Christ in their life.

[7th trump]

And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman.


Moses selected an Hamitic woman of Mediterranean race from the Cush*te ("Ethiopian" erroneously used) peoples. He was wrongly denounced, similar to how a German might have taken a Sicilian woman a century ago, and got scowls from his extended family (my German grandmother called brunette Italians "black").

It is pure ignorance to assume that Moses' wife was a Negroid like Oprah Winfrey. She had olive skin, and dark hair. Big deal. Still Adamic. The ancient Ethiopians were Hamitic Adamites, and this remained so for their upper class until a few centuries ago. The major Caucasian influence still exists in the Ethiopian church elders. If anything modern Ethiopia is an illustration of what the abomination of race mixing does.

Moses wife was his own kind. His wife just lived in that country. Kind of like my wife is from Illinois and I'm from Iowa. Both are white with germanic backgrounds.

[Quantum]

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

I don't believe you would be correct in your assertion that "men' and "mankind" in the Biblical (which is always correct) sense refer to caucasians. Most scholars would say that Caucasians are descendants of Japheth. Jews, Orientals, and American natives (Indians), among others, are Semites, descendants of Shem.


Most "scholars" claim the Khazar "Jews" are Israelites. Most "scholars" actually claim the Bible is a book of myths!

The early Europeans and west Asians, such as the Picts and Basques and Finns, were Japhetic. The northern and eastern Mediterraneans were Semitic (likely the Semites were the source for red hair across the Adamic peoples). The southern Mediterraneans were Hamitic, and are now mostly extinct by the fact of their miscegenation with their Negroid slaves. There is great reason to believe the mysterious Aryans were the lost tribes, ironically, who moved into Europe.




The Bible is abundantly clear that all men are from the same blood:

Acts 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation.


No, the Bible is abundantly clear that all Adamites are of one blood. Your universalist interpretation changes the original meaning to meet the modern Babylonian meaning.

Just like when Jefferson said "all men are created equal," the Bible did not mean that "men" included pre-Adamites such as Negroes.




Everything in the Bible points to Christ as the redeemer of all mankind. That is the overriding theme of the Bible, not the superiority of the white race.


The Bible is quite clear that heritage and bloodlines are very, very important. Christ had to come from the line of David. The promises to Abraham's "seed" remain and have been realized, but not by the Khazar Jews.

[StackerKen]

Esau and Jacob were twins

more copy and paste


.................................................. .

The phrase "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated" (Romans 9:13) is often used to support selective salvation. Selective Salvationists point to this verse (which is actually a quote from Malachi 1:2, 3) as proof God has chosen certain people to love and certain people to hate. In fact, it is often used as the cornerstone of the doctrine of selective salvation.

Was God actually saying He personally hated Esau or is there more to this story than what first meets the eye? Esau and Jacob were, of course, Isaac’s twin sons. God told Isaac he would be the father of a great nation. Esau was the first-born and was entitled to two-thirds of the family inheritance and the birthright. Nevertheless, God had told Isaac that the great nation (Israel) was to come through Jacob, not Esau.

Although Esau was the firstborn and Isaac’s favorite (Genesis 25:28) God, in His sovereignty, chose to use Jacob. God, in His sovereignty, chose to break tradition and have the older brother serve the younger (Genesis 25:23). God’s choice of Jacob had nothing to do with salvation, but had everything to do with who would father the nation of Israel. God, in His sovereignty, chose to use Jacob’s seed (not Esau’s) to be the source of the Messiah.

Did God actually hate Esau? If you look at the life of Esau, there was no indication he had the disfavor of God. He was wealthy and in good health. God did not display any hatred toward Esau. I believe the message being presented in Romans 9:13 is, "I have chosen to use Jacob, not Esau."

I don’t know why God used the word "hate." Maybe it had more cultural significance a few thousand years ago. Maybe the choice of words was to produce an emphasis or contrast. In Luke 14:26, God uses the word "hate" to contrast what our love should be toward Him. Here He says, "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brother and sisters –yes, even his own life –he cannot be my disciple." Obviously, God is not saying we should actually hate our parents. He was only making a contrast of how great our love for God should be in comparison to our love for our family.

[Quantum]

Man I must really dumb...

Because I am completely lost on this subject and on this forum.

the Jews are/where white?

the jews are good or bad?

Gentiles are part of the 12 tribes?

Only white people are saved?

all other races are inferior?

Hmmm... ???


The real Jews (Judeans) were and are White Adamites.

The real Jews (Judeans) like Jesus Christ were and are good people, followers of Yahweh.

The lost tribes are likely living on amongst the body of the European nations.

Adam-man is a special creation, and if that means, to you, that pre-Adamites are "inferior," you'll need to talk to God about that. God said His creations were "good," so I don't think that means they're "inferior," just different.

[NOOB]

Wow,, I am not religious but I find this thread fascinating. Another fascinating thing is that after being attacked with the "Evil White Racist" name calling in the thread title, this thread has remained informative and civil. Good Job.

[LuckyStrike]

Wow,, I am not religious but I find this thread fascinating. Another fascinating thing is that after being attacked with the "Evil White Racist" name calling in the thread title, this thread has remained informative and civil. Good Job.


When you have the Truth on your side you don't have to resort to ad hominem attacks.

[StackerKen]

Man I must really dumb...

Because I am completely lost on this subject and on this forum.

the Jews are/where white?

the jews are good or bad?

Gentiles are part of the 12 tribes?

Only white people are saved?

all other races are inferior?

Hmmm... ???


The real Jews (Judeans) were and are White Adamites.

The real Jews (Judeans) like Jesus Christ were and are good people, followers of Yahweh.

The lost tribes are likely living on amongst the body of the European nations.

Adam-man is a special creation, and if that means, to you, that pre-Adamites are "inferior," you'll need to talk to God about that. God said His creations were "good," so I don't think that means they're "inferior," just different.


Thanks for taking the time to answer me Quantum.

Im still trying to digest all this

Cause I never read any of this pre-Adamites stuff in the Bible

[LuckyStrike]

Ken have you read any of the Apocrypha?

I haven't yet but intend to direct my attention there when I get some irons out of the fire.

I bring it up because it is my understanding that a lot of the passages therein support Christian Identity theology.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/apo/index.htm

[StackerKen]

Ken have you read any of the Apocrypha?

I haven't yet but intend to direct my attention there when I get some irons out of the fire.

I bring it up because it is my understanding that a lot of the passages therein support Christian Identity theology.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/apo/index.htm


No. I haven't Nordic

[Quantum]

Your words imply that I'm selling something.

I don't care if you believe the Truth or not I won't be judged for what you do only what I do.


I meant that "i don't think so."

Nordic do you think it is important that i believe this stuff in order to be saved?

I need to believe that only whites are the chosen ones?

I am honestly not clear on what we are taliking about here


To be a Christian requires that one believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. You're not going to Hell or are less a Christian because you don't believe what is being discussed here. But if you love the truth, you will open your mind and heart to it even if unpleasant or offensive to what you thought you knew.

[Quantum]

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. .


That's correct: if you are Norwegian or Italian, Spanish or Russian, Irish or Syrian, you are equal as children of God.

[7th trump]

Esau and Jacob were twins

more copy and paste


.................................................. .

The phrase "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated" (Romans 9:13) is often used to support selective salvation. Selective Salvationists point to this verse (which is actually a quote from Malachi 1:2, 3) as proof God has chosen certain people to love and certain people to hate. In fact, it is often used as the cornerstone of the doctrine of selective salvation.

Was God actually saying He personally hated Esau or is there more to this story than what first meets the eye? Esau and Jacob were, of course, Isaac’s twin sons. God told Isaac he would be the father of a great nation. Esau was the first-born and was entitled to two-thirds of the family inheritance and the birthright. Nevertheless, God had told Isaac that the great nation (Israel) was to come through Jacob, not Esau.

Although Esau was the firstborn and Isaac’s favorite (Genesis 25:28) God, in His sovereignty, chose to use Jacob. God, in His sovereignty, chose to break tradition and have the older brother serve the younger (Genesis 25:23). God’s choice of Jacob had nothing to do with salvation, but had everything to do with who would father the nation of Israel. God, in His sovereignty, chose to use Jacob’s seed (not Esau’s) to be the source of the Messiah.

Did God actually hate Esau? If you look at the life of Esau, there was no indication he had the disfavor of God. He was wealthy and in good health. God did not display any hatred toward Esau. I believe the message being presented in Romans 9:13 is, "I have chosen to use Jacob, not Esau."

I don’t know why God used the word "hate." Maybe it had more cultural significance a few thousand years ago. Maybe the choice of words was to produce an emphasis or contrast. In Luke 14:26, God uses the word "hate" to contrast what our love should be toward Him. Here He says, "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brother and sisters –yes, even his own life –he cannot be my disciple." Obviously, God is not saying we should actually hate our parents. He was only making a contrast of how great our love for God should be in comparison to our love for our family.



Ken to understand this you need to understand that God hated Esau before ever putting Esau in the womb to be born of flesh to have his time to decide. Gods is fair and Just.
satan revolted before this earth age when we were all in angelic bodies. satan succeeded in convincing 1/3 of Gods children to worship him. So God instead of destroying these 1/3 decided to destroy the earth as it was and brang in a second earth age with no traces of the first. God had to let us decide with no physical interference between Him and God. No evidence of the first earth age. God is sitting on his thrown and satan is chained up in Heaven. But each can influence the world.
Now with Noah, some angels left their habitat (Heaven) and came to earth. They decided to not take the route of embiblical cord and came to earth in angelic form. God did this as well . The book of Ezekiel describes the craft God came in in some pretty good description. God was in it with His thrown. I havent yet came across why God came to earth yet other than to speak with Ezekiel. But hey I'll let you know when I find out.
Esau for unknown reason was not liked by God before ever being put in the womb. Most likely having something to do with satans revolt, but God is fair and just and therefore Esau went into the womb to decide. Well we know the rest of thestory dont we. Esua denied or didnt care about his heritage as did his brother and murdered his brother Jacob.

[Quantum]

I think people need to believe the Truth in order to be redeemed yes.


Caution: it's important to promote the Truth, but not be unnecessarily exclusive.

If Ken truly believes in Jesus Christ as his king and savior, then he is redeemed. He can believe errors and still retain salvation. The Word (Christ Himself) is the master and only key; doctrine is merely a quest to be engaged in according to the greatest commandment (love God with all one's heart, mind, and soul).

[Quantum]

Anybody in the flesh is here to decide who they are going to follow, Christ or satan.
Ask yourself this Quantum. Were you around in the time of Adam and Eve and did you partake of the tree of knowledge of good and evil like Eve first and Adam second to think that any of this has to do with the sins of Adam?
Thats an uneducated answer quantum. How can any of us today have the original sin? I for one was not in the garden of eden at that time the serpent seduced Eve to partaking of the tree of knowledge.
How do you correlate the sin of adam of then to today?
Doesnt make any sense Quantum.


Our original sin is human nature, the tendency to choose wrong before good. We are not sinful at birth, as some believe, but only when we attain the knowledge of good and evil. Babies do not go to Hell because they have not accepted Christ or been baptized. In fact, baptism of those without knowledge of good and evil is meaningless.

Sin is the conscious choice to disregard God.

[StackerKen]

I think people need to believe the Truth in order to be redeemed yes.


Caution: it's important to promote the Truth, but not be unnecessarily exclusive.

If Ken truly believes in Jesus Christ as his king and savior, then he is redeemed. He can believe errors and still retain salvation. The Word (Christ Himself) is the master and only key; doctrine is merely a quest to be engaged in according to the greatest commandment (love God with all one's heart, mind, and soul).


second is this: Love your neighbour as yourself. :)

Yep. I truly believe in Jesus Christ as my king and savior ;D
and I truly love God with all my heart, mind, and soul ;D

[LuckyStrike]

I think people need to believe the Truth in order to be redeemed yes.


Caution: it's important to promote the Truth, but not be unnecessarily exclusive.

If Ken truly believes in Jesus Christ as his king and savior, then he is redeemed. He can believe errors and still retain salvation. The Word (Christ Himself) is the master and only key; doctrine is merely a quest to be engaged in according to the greatest commandment (love God with all one's heart, mind, and soul).


I won't argue. I don't know Ken personally but he comes off as one of the nicest people on the board, I enjoy his posts and his upbeat attitude is certainly a valuable addition to the forum.

I do think it is important to have a yearning to know the Truth regardless if that makes you a "racist, or bigot" in peoples eyes. Christians talk about persecution and I think few know what it means.

Look at Paul he certainly was steeped in judaism however he saw the Truth and was converted. So I do think it is important to be open to the Truth.

[7th trump]

Anybody in the flesh is here to decide who they are going to follow, Christ or satan.
Ask yourself this Quantum. Were you around in the time of Adam and Eve and did you partake of the tree of knowledge of good and evil like Eve first and Adam second to think that any of this has to do with the sins of Adam?
Thats an uneducated answer quantum. How can any of us today have the original sin? I for one was not in the garden of eden at that time the serpent seduced Eve to partaking of the tree of knowledge.
How do you correlate the sin of adam of then to today?
Doesnt make any sense Quantum.


Our original sin is human nature ( oh....bull! And you have no proof to back that. You confuse this notion with everybody else that flesh is carnal....its not even though it greived God to put us in these flesh bodies. But over all the flesh is a pretty good clay pot for what its purpose is), the tendency to choose wrong before good. We are not sinful at birth, as some believe, but only when we attain the knowledge of good and evil (age of accountability and proof that human nature is sin. I have a nature about me thats not sin at all. I'm a little hard at times but is that sin?). Babies do not go to Hell because they have not accepted Christ or been baptized.( I agree, they havent yet reached that age of accountability) In fact, baptism of those without knowledge of good and evil is meaningless. ( Not so, baptism is beleiving Jesus died (going under)and rose (coming out from the water) again. Has nothing to do with of knowing good from evil. Its about faith!)

Sin is the conscious choice to disregard God. (Sin is going against God and his laws)

[7th trump]

I think people need to believe the Truth in order to be redeemed yes.


Caution: it's important to promote the Truth, but not be unnecessarily exclusive.

If Ken truly believes in Jesus Christ as his king and savior, then he is redeemed. He can believe errors and still retain salvation. The Word (Christ Himself) is the master and only key; doctrine is merely a quest to be engaged in according to the greatest commandment (love God with all one's heart, mind, and soul).


I won't argue. I don't know Ken personally but he comes off as one of the nicest people on the board, I enjoy his posts and his upbeat attitude is certainly a valuable addition to the forum.

I do think it is important to have a yearning to know the Truth regardless if that makes you a "racist, or bigot" in peoples eyes. Christians talk about persecution and I think few know what it means.

Look at Paul he certainly was steeped in judaism however he saw the Truth and was converted. So I do think it is important to be open to the Truth.



Yep Paul was out prosecuting the church when God intervened in his life. Paul was pretty hard on himself for it to.

[Quantum]

Thanks for taking the time to answer me Quantum.

Im still trying to digest all this

Cause I never read any of this pre-Adamites stuff in the Bible


You're welcome.

It's all there, right in the Bible. The problem is that your pastors never touched upon these facts. These interpretations were never permitted to be imagined let alone discussed.

Race mixing is the ultimate abomination, and the primary reason that God exterminated the rotten world of Noah's day. God can redeem any soul, but He couldn't redeem "scrambled eggs" of the mixed-race peoples, who were not like Noah, a man "perfect in his generations." For millennia race was a fact for Bible-believers, though they didn't use that term or the concepts of what we now understand as physical anthropology. Only in modern times has race mixing, like all other abominations, become the order of the day in our world. It is no surprise that today's Tower of Babel project, the New World Order, has taken "oneness" to an ever greater satanic degree. The greatest "sin" of this fallen world is "anti-Semitism" (for a Christian, "anti-Christism" is the worst sin). The second greatest "sin" is "racism." Both are "sins" of humanism, not Christianity.

[StackerKen]

Thanks for the complement Nordic :)

I love the Truth....and I am open to it...thats why i am on this thread and checking stuff out on the web..and in the Bible

this next part is copy and paste mostly be cause Its easier that way...

In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity.

I think of the above saying from St. Augustine that John Wesley liked to quote whenever I am trying to decide if an issue is important enough to divide over, or if it should just be a matter of friendly debate. There are some things Christians must agree on, such as the Divinity of Jesus, the accuracy and authority of the Bible, that Jesus is the only way to salvation, etc. If we don’t agree on those then we’ve got big problems. But we should be as charitable as possible when disagreeing.

[7th trump]

Thanks for taking the time to answer me Quantum.

Im still trying to digest all this

Cause I never read any of this pre-Adamites stuff in the Bible


You're welcome.

It's all there, right in the Bible. The problem is that your pastors never touched upon these facts. These interpretations were never permitted to be imagined let alone discussed.

Race mixing is the ultimate abomination (thats an outright lie. Race mixing is not looked at very highly by God but not an abomination. God calls the outcome of race mixing " manzars". They will not be apart of any kingship but perfectly ok to enter the kingdom. Theres only but one unpardonable sin and only the Elect can commit it. all other sins can be forgiven), and the primary reason that God exterminated the rotten world of Noah's day (another outright lie. God brought on the flood to destroyed the "nephelium" who were the giants from the off spring of the angels who took human wifes. These were giant hybrids. Ever read about the story of a little boy who killed one with a stone? Read the Bible will ya and stop injecting racism.) God can redeem any soul, but He couldn't redeem "scrambled eggs" of the mixed-race peoples, who were not like Noah, a man "perfect in his generations." For millennia race was a fact for Bible-believers, though they didn't use that term or the concepts of what we now understand as physical anthropology. Only in modern times has race mixing, like all other abominations, become the order of the day in our world. It is no surprise that today's Tower of Babel project, the New World Order, has taken "oneness" to an ever greater satanic degree. The greatest "sin" of this fallen world is "anti-Semitism" (for a Christian, "anti-Christism" is the worst sin). The second greatest "sin" is "racism." Both are "sins" of humanism, not Christianity. (the biggest sin (yet forgivable) you in the flesh can commit is stepping on Gods toes by judging someone. Other than that if you are an Elect and do not allow God to speak through you when brought up to death God will not forgive that.)

[greenbear]

Thanks all for your willingness to explain your religious beliefs.

I realize there are differences within the Christian Identity movement, but can you explain from your various perspectives the following?

Do you think Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Israel) as recorded in the AV KJB were Caucasians?

[LuckyStrike]

Do you think Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Israel) as recorded in the AV KJB were Caucasians?


Most definitely.

As a matter of fact I know someone who will pay 1000 dollars for someone who can prove they weren't.

[LuckyStrike]

I would also like to point out that although I have been studying CI I am by no means an expert and I am also familiar with a couple of the preachers so I certainly can't speak for everyone.

I do trust Pastor Eli James though his radio shows can be found here.

http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=21924&cmd=tc

[LuckyStrike]

Acts 17:26
And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,

Is that a lie??

I don't think so.


Deuteronomy 7 :6For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

[greenbear]

Do you think Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Israel) as recorded in the AV KJB were Caucasians?


Most definitely.

As a matter of fact I know someone who will pay 1000 dollars for someone who can prove they weren't.


Can you prove that the Ethiopians that lived 2000 years ago were not Caucasians?

[greenbear]

I can prove that.

Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

But neither your teacher nor you, can prove that Caucasians are Semites.

[Quantum]

God calls the outcome of race mixing " manzars".


Actually, the term is "mamzer." (H4464) Your inability to get even that right reflects the nature of your statements.

I'm not bothering to respond to anything else you're saying, since most of it is such erroneous nature that it stands as absurd on its own.

[Quantum]

Do you think Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Israel) as recorded in the AV KJB were Caucasians?


Not "think" - know.

[Quantum]

I can prove that.

Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.


What are you trying to prove? That ancient Ethiopians were olive-skinned? Or that they were coal-black, prognathous Negroids, which fits your Babylonian race-mixing position? Even after thousands of years of race-mixing, many Ethiopians still have strong Caucasian features.

My grandmother, born in 1906, considered Southern Europeans "black," and referred to them as such. She herself had brown hair. Negroes are something far different than our darker cousins of the Mediterranean.




But neither your teacher nor you, can prove that Caucasians are Semites.


You mean that Semites are Caucasians? That's accepted by everyone except the most insane Afrocentric Negrophile. Why don't you go check your Bible and learn that David looked like a good little ginger Irish boy?

[greenbear]

Do you think Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Israel) as recorded in the AV KJB were Caucasians?


Not "think" - know.


Please explain how you came to "know" this.

[greenbear]

I can prove that.

Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.


What are you trying to prove? That ancient Ethiopians were olive-skinned? Or that they were coal-black, prognathous Negroids, which fits your Babylonian race-mixing position? Even after thousands of years of race-mixing, many Ethiopians still have strong Caucasian features.

My grandmother, born in 1906, considered Southern Europeans "black," and referred to them as such. She herself had brown hair. Negroes are something far different than our darker cousins of the Mediterranean.




But neither your teacher nor you, can prove that Caucasians are Semites.


You mean that Semites are Caucasians? That's accepted by everyone except the most insane Afrocentric Negrophile. Why don't you go check your Bible and learn that David looked like a good little ginger Irish boy?


Ethiopians are not negroid. They are black skinned, very black skinned, but they do not have negroid characteristics.

edit:


What are you trying to prove? That ancient Ethiopians were olive-skinned? Or that they were coal-black, prognathous Negroids, which fits your Babylonian race-mixing position? Even after thousands of years of race-mixing, many Ethiopians still have strong Caucasian features.


Huh??? I'm not trying to prove anything right now, I'm trying to figure out what you guys believe. How can I prove you wrong if i don't understand what you actually believe? And I don't know what a "Babylonian race-mixing position" is, though you attribute it to me! You guys must think that other people have spent years obsessing about race issues like you apparently do. I prefer the term "nation". The word "race" to describe Biblical "nations" is a fairly recent thing. It ties in with teachings from Madame Blavatsky's spirit guides regarding concepts such as "root races", and the Theory of Evolution.

[greenbear]

I can prove that.

Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.


What are you trying to prove? That ancient Ethiopians were olive-skinned? Or that they were coal-black, prognathous Negroids, which fits your Babylonian race-mixing position? Even after thousands of years of race-mixing, many Ethiopians still have strong Caucasian features.

My grandmother, born in 1906, considered Southern Europeans "black," and referred to them as such. She herself had brown hair. Negroes are something far different than our darker cousins of the Mediterranean.




But neither your teacher nor you, can prove that Caucasians are Semites.


You mean that Semites are Caucasians? That's accepted by everyone except the most insane Afrocentric Negrophile. Why don't you go check your Bible and learn that David looked like a good little ginger Irish boy?


Ethiopians are not negroid. They are black skinned, very black skinned, but they do not have negroid characteristics.


If you referring to the Song of Solomon then are you saying that David's son Solomon was a Caucasian?

[greenbear]

David's son Solomon by Bathsheba, a Jewess, was not described as white, that is, not olive complexioned. Some people like to say he was black because of Song of Solomon 1:6, which is absurd. The narrator describes himself as black because of the sun. Not born that way.

What verses do you use to try to say that David was as light-skinned as the Irish? I am curious.

[Quantum]

Do you think Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Israel) as recorded in the AV KJB were Caucasians?


Not "think" - know.


Please explain how you came to "know" this.


What do you think they were?

[Quantum]

Ethiopians are not negroid. They are black skinned, very black skinned, but they do not have negroid characteristics.


Huh?

Modern Ethiopians are definitely Negroid. Ancient Ethiopians were not. Nor were they "black" in the modern definition nor necessarily "very dark."




Huh??? I'm not trying to prove anything right now, I'm trying to figure out what you guys believe. How can I prove you wrong if i don't understand what you actually believe? And I don't know what a "Babylonian race-mixing position" is, though you attribute it to me! You guys must think that other people have spent years obsessing about race issues like you apparently do. I prefer the term "nation". The word "race" to describe Biblical "nations" is a fairly recent thing. It ties in with teachings from Madame Blavatsky's spirit guides regarding concepts such as "root races", and the Theory of Evolution.


You don't believe in the "of one blood" absurdity promoted by all Babylon "churches" that all humanoids, including pre-Adamites, came from Adam, and that "racism" is a "sin"?

Race is a concept that arose from the study of human characteristics. It has nothing to do with evolution per se, nor of occultism. The earliest modern accounting of race and races was by the Comte de Gobineau, a devout Christian and Bible-believer, written before Darwin's nonsense.

[Quantum]

David's son Solomon by Bathsheba, a Jewess, was not described as white, that is, not olive complexioned. Some people like to say he was black because of Song of Solomon 1:6, which is absurd. The narrator describes himself as black because of the sun. Not born that way.


Are you arguing with me about this? Why? I don't disagree. Solomon was a White man, of course. Anyone living in the Middle East, even a Swede, is going to get a good tan, unless they burn and get sun poisoning.




What verses do you use to try to say that David was as light-skinned as the Irish? I am curious.


It's universally accepted that David was a ginger (i.e., a redhead). Try 1 Samuel 16:12 for a supporting verse. There is no such thing as a dark redhead.

[7th trump]

I can prove that.

Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.


What are you trying to prove? That ancient Ethiopians were olive-skinned? Or that they were coal-black, prognathous Negroids, which fits your Babylonian race-mixing position? Even after thousands of years of race-mixing, many Ethiopians still have strong Caucasian features.

My grandmother, born in 1906, considered Southern Europeans "black," and referred to them as such. She herself had brown hair. Negroes are something far different than our darker cousins of the Mediterranean.




But neither your teacher nor you, can prove that Caucasians are Semites.


You mean that Semites are Caucasians? That's accepted by everyone except the most insane Afrocentric Negrophile. Why don't you go check your Bible and learn that David looked like a good little ginger Irish boy?


Ethiopians are not negroid. They are black skinned, very black skinned, but they do not have negroid characteristics.

edit:


What are you trying to prove? That ancient Ethiopians were olive-skinned? Or that they were coal-black, prognathous Negroids, which fits your Babylonian race-mixing position? Even after thousands of years of race-mixing, many Ethiopians still have strong Caucasian features.


Huh??? I'm not trying to prove anything right now, I'm trying to figure out what you guys believe. How can I prove you wrong if i don't understand what you actually believe? And I don't know what a "Babylonian race-mixing position" is, though you attribute it to me! You guys must think that other people have spent years obsessing about race issues like you apparently do. I prefer the term "nation". The word "race" to describe Biblical "nations" is a fairly recent thing. It ties in with teachings from Madame Blavatsky's spirit guides regarding concepts such as "root races", and the Theory of Evolution.

Well I'm glad you prefer the term "nation", but to be honest, who really cares what one preson prefers.
I see you are still teaching and promoting the "traditions of men" or as some of us prefer to call it......"LIES". It no wonder you are all caught up in the "rapture" lie.
I dont like to say this but I hope you do beleive in that rapture and get caught worshipping the anti-christ at the 7th trump. This way in the millenium you only have one way to deal with it, continue on listening to man and perish or start beleiving in Gods Word.
You have nobody but yourself to blame and nobody but yourself to get yourself out the possibility of being turned to ashes from within.
Care to explain why you are reading "spirit guides" and the "theory of evolution" and injecting this garbage into the word of God, the bible?

Whites came from whites all the way from Genesis as did all the other races coming from their own. Whites didnt come from the evolution of one race.
Its only been about 16,000 or so years since the first traces of homo-sapien.
No scientists or doctors have seen or observed any kind of evolution of man in any race for the 16,000 or so years. No signs of evolution in the science field nor medical field has been found green, nothing!
Science and medicine agree's with the Bible, but you on one side of the many faces you have listen to traditions of athiest and inject that crap into the Bible.
Boy dont you just take the whole bag!

[LuckyStrike]

the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

But neither your teacher nor you, can prove that Caucasians are Semites.


Can't prove it to you perhaps, but I can't explain geometry to a rock either.

[madfranks]

I've read this whole thread and it's very interesting to me. I've always been intrigued by CI, but never got around to any serious in-depth study. Nordic, you seem to be pretty knowledgeable about it, can I ask you a question? From the CI perspective, why did God send Jonah to minister and call to repentance the Ninevites? I always understood this as an example that God was concerned with the salvation of all peoples, not just the Israelites.

[greenbear]

David's son Solomon by Bathsheba, a Jewess, was not described as white, that is, not olive complexioned. Some people like to say he was black because of Song of Solomon 1:6, which is absurd. The narrator describes himself as black because of the sun. Not born that way.


Are you arguing with me about this? Why? I don't disagree. Solomon was a White man, of course. Anyone living in the Middle East, even a Swede, is going to get a good tan, unless they burn and get sun poisoning.




What verses do you use to try to say that David was as light-skinned as the Irish? I am curious.


It's universally accepted that David was a ginger (i.e., a redhead). Try 1 Samuel 16:12 for a supporting verse. There is no such thing as a dark redhead.


1 Samuel 16:12 And he sent, and brought him in. Now he was ruddy, and withal of a beautiful countenance, and goodly to look to. And the LORD said, Arise, anoint him: for this is he.

Webster's 1828 Dictionary [K-Z]
ruddy
RUD'DY, a.

1. Of a red color; of a lively flesh color, or the color of the human skin in high health. Thus we say, reddy cheeks, ruddy lips, a reddy face or skin, a ruddy youth; and in poetic language, ruddy fruit. But the word is chiefly applied to the human skin.

2. Of a bright yellow color; as ruddy gold. Unusual.

I'm sorry but it is certainly not universally accepted that David was a "ginger", though it may be universally accepted within white-supremacist circles. David was a shepherd, he spent his days and nights outside tending to sheep, and as a result he had tanned skin. This verse in no way indicates that David had red hair. 'Ruddy" describes complexion, not hair color. "Ruddy" skin does not mean lily white skin, either. Do you have anything from the Bible that indicates that the Jews were white men of Nordic or Anglo-Saxon descent according to the plain meaning of the verse taken in context?

[greenbear]

Do you think Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Israel) as recorded in the AV KJB were Caucasians?


Most definitely.

As a matter of fact I know someone who will pay 1000 dollars for someone who can prove they weren't.




the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

But neither your teacher nor you, can prove that Caucasians are Semites.


Can't prove it to you perhaps, but I can't explain geometry to a rock either.


If white men of Nordic or Anglo-Saxon lineage are really the children of Israel then surely there must be indications of this in the Bible which came from the Jews/Israel. Do you have any clear scriptural evidence this is the case? An answer of "yes I do but you're just too dumb to understand" doesn't cut it, lol.

[7th trump]

David's son Solomon by Bathsheba, a Jewess, was not described as white, that is, not olive complexioned. Some people like to say he was black because of Song of Solomon 1:6, which is absurd. The narrator describes himself as black because of the sun. Not born that way.


Are you arguing with me about this? Why? I don't disagree. Solomon was a White man, of course. Anyone living in the Middle East, even a Swede, is going to get a good tan, unless they burn and get sun poisoning.




What verses do you use to try to say that David was as light-skinned as the Irish? I am curious.


It's universally accepted that David was a ginger (i.e., a redhead). Try 1 Samuel 16:12 for a supporting verse. There is no such thing as a dark redhead.


1 Samuel 16:12 And he sent, and brought him in. Now he was ruddy, and withal of a beautiful countenance, and goodly to look to. And the LORD said, Arise, anoint him: for this is he.

Webster's 1828 Dictionary [K-Z]
ruddy
RUD'DY, a.

1. Of a red color; of a lively flesh color, or the color of the human skin in high health. Thus we say, reddy cheeks, ruddy lips, a reddy face or skin, a ruddy youth; and in poetic language, ruddy fruit. But the word is chiefly applied to the human skin.

2. Of a bright yellow color; as ruddy gold. Unusual.

I'm sorry but it is certainly not universally accepted that David was a "ginger", though it may be universally accepted within white-supremacist circles. David was a shepherd, he spent his days and nights outside tending to sheep, and as a result he had tanned skin. This verse in no way indicates that David had red hair. 'Ruddy" describes complexion, not hair color. "Ruddy" skin does not mean lily white skin, either. Do you have anything from the Bible that indicates that the Jews were white men of Nordic or Anglo-Saxon descent according to the plain meaning of the verse taken in context?

Do you always use an english dictionary?
Why not a concordence to see what ruddy is?
You take a chance of misinterpreting the scripture using a webster, but then again you are famous for it.

[greenbear]

Do you think Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Israel) as recorded in the AV KJB were Caucasians?


Most definitely.

As a matter of fact I know someone who will pay 1000 dollars for someone who can prove they weren't.


Caucasian (comparative more Caucasian, superlative most Caucasian)
1. Of, or relating to the Caucasus region or its people, languages and culture.
2. (anthropology, archaic) Of a human racial classification; pertaining to people having certain phenotypical features such as straight or wavy hair and very light to yellowish pigmented skin, and originating from Europe, parts of Northern Africa and Western, Central and South Asia.

OK, let me be more specific. Do you believe that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob (Israel), Moses, David, Daniel, all of the major and minor prophets, John the Baptist (Jesus' cousin), Joseph (Jesus' step father), and Mary Jesus' mother were all of European descent, i.e. Anglo-Saxon or Nordic?

[7th trump]

Do you think Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Israel) as recorded in the AV KJB were Caucasians?


Most definitely.

As a matter of fact I know someone who will pay 1000 dollars for someone who can prove they weren't.




the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

But neither your teacher nor you, can prove that Caucasians are Semites.


Can't prove it to you perhaps, but I can't explain geometry to a rock either.


If white men of Nordic or Anglo-Saxon lineage are really the children of Israel then surely there must be indications of this in the Bible which came from the Jews/Israel. Do you have any clear scriptural evidence this is the case? An answer of "yes I do but you're just too dumb to understand" doesn't cut it, lol.

Maybe you are just to dumb to understand green. You demonstrated you are in the past.
Heres an idea green!..........research the word "caucasian".
Or will this result in everybody coming to the conclusion they shouldnt listen to a false prophet.
Gosh......................how would your ego handle this?

[greenbear]

Ethiopians are not negroid. They are black skinned, very black skinned, but they do not have negroid characteristics.


Huh?

Modern Ethiopians are definitely Negroid. Ancient Ethiopians were not. Nor were they "black" in the modern definition nor necessarily "very dark."




Huh??? I'm not trying to prove anything right now, I'm trying to figure out what you guys believe. How can I prove you wrong if i don't understand what you actually believe? And I don't know what a "Babylonian race-mixing position" is, though you attribute it to me! You guys must think that other people have spent years obsessing about race issues like you apparently do. I prefer the term "nation". The word "race" to describe Biblical "nations" is a fairly recent thing. It ties in with teachings from Madame Blavatsky's spirit guides regarding concepts such as "root races", and the Theory of Evolution.


You don't believe in the "of one blood" absurdity promoted by all Babylon "churches" that all humanoids, including pre-Adamites, came from Adam, and that "racism" is a "sin"?

Race is a concept that arose from the study of human characteristics. It has nothing to do with evolution per se, nor of occultism. The earliest modern accounting of race and races was by the Comte de Gobineau, a devout Christian and Bible-believer, written before Darwin's nonsense.


The Theory of Evolution did not just pop into history when Charles Darwin published it. There are various influences that build and blend over decades or centuries that affect philosophies and schools of thought at a particular moment in time. The way to get closer to the truth about something is to read around a subject, that is to take in different viewpoints. If you accept some prepackaged world-view, philosophy, or school of thought without thinking for yourself, outside the box, so to speak, you are going to have a very narrow view with the built in bias of the men that most influenced it. Whenever someone points out something that may be true, or factual, whether it is from the Bible, or historical, sources, etc, CI people seem to almost violent reaction and irrationally reject it out of hand with a blanket condemnation of the source, name-calling, insults.

[StackerKen]

7th Hopefully Greenbear has you on ignore

edit; 7th I say that, because your not being very civil to her

[StackerKen]

Should I try to moderate this thread?......lol

(Colossians 4:6) KJV “Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.”
:oo-->

[Quantum]

1 Samuel 16:12 And he sent, and brought him in. Now he was ruddy, and withal of a beautiful countenance, and goodly to look to. And the LORD said, Arise, anoint him: for this is he.

Webster's 1828 Dictionary [K-Z]
ruddy
RUD'DY, a.

1. Of a red color; of a lively flesh color, or the color of the human skin in high health. Thus we say, reddy cheeks, ruddy lips, a reddy face or skin, a ruddy youth; and in poetic language, ruddy fruit. But the word is chiefly applied to the human skin.

2. Of a bright yellow color; as ruddy gold. Unusual.

I'm sorry but it is certainly not universally accepted that David was a "ginger", though it may be universally accepted within white-supremacist circles. David was a shepherd, he spent his days and nights outside tending to sheep, and as a result he had tanned skin. This verse in no way indicates that David had red hair. 'Ruddy" describes complexion, not hair color. "Ruddy" skin does not mean lily white skin, either. Do you have anything from the Bible that indicates that the Jews were white men of Nordic or Anglo-Saxon descent according to the plain meaning of the verse taken in context?


I must ask: what is your purpose and intention for insisting the Biblical Israelites were not White people?

I'm not going to argue with you about David, other than to point out a "ruddy" man is always a White man. You don't have to believe he had red hair.

I am detecting a serious undertone of dishonesty from you. Unlike Ken, who is an honest man, it seems you have a Judeophilic (and probable race-mixing) agenda to protect. Despite your pretension that you are concerned about the accuracy of terms, I note your use of the term "Jews" instead of the correct "Israelites," and I note your switcharoo from "Caucasian" to "Nordic or Anglo-Saxon" (a broad class to a much narrowed class). As such, I am no longer interested in any discussion with you, except solely to clarify for others who are sincerely interested in the truth.

[7th trump]

7th Hopefully Greenbear has you on ignore

edit; 7th I say that, because your not being very civil to her

Well maybe so ken, but as you can see I'm not the only one here that thinks theres a dishonesty about her. I dont really consider myself an expert, but I have been studying the Bible for some time now and what green says is not always correct.
This makes three of us thus far Ken.
Personally I dont care for green. She only wants to hear what green wants to hear and argues with you over it.
I really dont like her.......................she lies.

[7th trump]

Should I try to moderate this thread?......lol

(Colossians 4:6) KJV “Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.”
:oo-->



Do you understand what seasoned with salt is Ken?

[7th trump]

Ethiopians are not negroid. They are black skinned, very black skinned, but they do not have negroid characteristics.


Huh?

Modern Ethiopians are definitely Negroid. Ancient Ethiopians were not. Nor were they "black" in the modern definition nor necessarily "very dark."




Huh??? I'm not trying to prove anything right now, I'm trying to figure out what you guys believe. How can I prove you wrong if i don't understand what you actually believe? And I don't know what a "Babylonian race-mixing position" is, though you attribute it to me! You guys must think that other people have spent years obsessing about race issues like you apparently do. I prefer the term "nation". The word "race" to describe Biblical "nations" is a fairly recent thing. It ties in with teachings from Madame Blavatsky's spirit guides regarding concepts such as "root races", and the Theory of Evolution.


You don't believe in the "of one blood" absurdity promoted by all Babylon "churches" that all humanoids, including pre-Adamites, came from Adam, and that "racism" is a "sin"?

Race is a concept that arose from the study of human characteristics. It has nothing to do with evolution per se, nor of occultism. The earliest modern accounting of race and races was by the Comte de Gobineau, a devout Christian and Bible-believer, written before Darwin's nonsense.


The Theory of Evolution did not just pop into history when Charles Darwin published it. There are various influences that build and blend over decades or centuries that affect philosophies and schools of thought at a particular moment in time. The way to get closer to the truth about something is to read around a subject, that is to take in different viewpoints. (yep God warns us about listening to the traditions of man....aka different view points) If you accept some prepackaged world-view, philosophy, or school of thought without thinking for yourself, outside the box, so to speak, you are going to have a very narrow view with the built in bias of the men that most influenced it.(so what is in the Bible is considered "in the box" and Gods word is bad because the truth is narrow minded? I've heard the truth is a narrow double edged sword. "Walking the stright and narrow comes to mind".) Whenever someone (like you right green) points out something that may be true, or factual, whether it is from the Bible, or historical, sources, etc, CI people seem to almost violent reaction and irrationally reject it out of hand (you do this all the time green) with a blanket condemnation of the source, name-calling, insults.

[greenbear]

1 Samuel 16:12 And he sent, and brought him in. Now he was ruddy, and withal of a beautiful countenance, and goodly to look to. And the LORD said, Arise, anoint him: for this is he.

Webster's 1828 Dictionary [K-Z]
ruddy
RUD'DY, a.

1. Of a red color; of a lively flesh color, or the color of the human skin in high health. Thus we say, reddy cheeks, ruddy lips, a reddy face or skin, a ruddy youth; and in poetic language, ruddy fruit. But the word is chiefly applied to the human skin.

2. Of a bright yellow color; as ruddy gold. Unusual.

I'm sorry but it is certainly not universally accepted that David was a "ginger", though it may be universally accepted within white-supremacist circles. David was a shepherd, he spent his days and nights outside tending to sheep, and as a result he had tanned skin. This verse in no way indicates that David had red hair. 'Ruddy" describes complexion, not hair color. "Ruddy" skin does not mean lily white skin, either. Do you have anything from the Bible that indicates that the Jews were white men of Nordic or Anglo-Saxon descent according to the plain meaning of the verse taken in context?


I must ask: what is your purpose and intention for insisting the Biblical Israelites were not White people?

I'm not going to argue with you about David, other than to point out a "ruddy" man is always a White man. You don't have to believe he had red hair.

I am detecting a serious undertone of dishonesty from you. Unlike Ken, who is an honest man, it seems you have a Judeophilic (and probable race-mixing) agenda to protect. Despite your pretension that you are concerned about the accuracy of terms, I note your use of the term "Jews" instead of the correct "Israelites," and I note your switcharoo from "Caucasian" to "Nordic or Anglo-Saxon" (a broad class to a much narrowed class). As such, I am no longer interested in any discussion with you, except solely to clarify for others who are sincerely interested in the truth.


Of course I believe that the people that are recognized as Jews today are really Jews. They are a distinct nation that has miraculously been kept distinct even while having no homeland for thousands of years. Their identity is obvious according to history and scripture. Are you new on this board, and were you on GIM? I would say I have a history of being pretty outspoken about my beliefs. You accuse me of being dishonest for asking you guys questions you cannot or will not answer? i think that if the CI/Neo-Nazis on this board saw me as a complete dummy you would just pat me on the head and answer my simplistic questions. Instead, you all shower me with insults and engage in character assassination.

I am simply trying to find out what CI believes, and on what evidence. This is a discussion board, after all. If you don't feel comfortable discussing the basis for your beliefs, then don't. The CI/Neo-Nazi contingent on this board, as on GIM, inject their rhetoric on most threads. It seems that everything that's wrong with the world is the Jews fault, and that they don't have the right to exist as a nation state. Then I learn that this contingent believes that they are the children of Israel, and the true Jews.

What I would really like to understand from you or NB, or anyone else here who apparently holds to the CI view is this:

How and when did the true "white, Anglo-Saxon, Nordic" true Jews lose their true identity to the Khazars, and why did the Khazars start pretending to be Jews?

And what historical and scriptural basis do you have for that position?

TIA to any CI believer.

[StackerKen]

Should I try to moderate this thread?......lol

(Colossians 4:6) KJV “Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.”
:oo-->



Do you understand what seasoned with salt is Ken?

7th
I think for the most part, I do.

I think as good Christians we are to be both Light and salt.
I think that means we are to be good examples of Gods love and to proclaim and defend the truth.

But notice, we are to do this "always with grace"


Copy and paste again because its says what I would like to say.
.................................................. .................................

1. A little salt sets the flavor in food.


2. Salt is a preservative.

3. Salt has healing properties. It kills most germs on contact. It burns when it hits a raw spot, but is very effective in cleansing a wound so it can heal. "Don't rub salt in my wounds", is a statement often heard when a person is hurt from good advice.


A good Christian exhibits the qualities of salt.

a. We add a better flavor to the life around us.

b. We preserve the good of God's creation.

c. We bring healing to the hurting people in our community.

[7th trump]

Should I try to moderate this thread?......lol

(Colossians 4:6) KJV “Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.”
:oo-->



Do you understand what seasoned with salt is Ken?

7th
I think for the most part, I do.

I think as good Christians we are to be both Light and salt.
I think that means we are to be good examples of Gods love and to proclaim and defend the truth.

But notice, we are to do this "always with grace"


Copy and paste again because its says what I would like to say.
.................................................. .................................

1. A little salt sets the flavor in food.


2. Salt is a preservative.

3. Salt has healing properties. It kills most germs on contact. It burns when it hits a raw spot, but is very effective in cleansing a wound so it can heal. "Don't rub salt in my wounds", is a statement often heard when a person is hurt from good advice.


A good Christian exhibits the qualities of salt.

a. We add a better flavor to the life around us.

b. We preserve the good of God's creation.

c. We bring healing to the hurting people in our community.

Do you know what grace is?
If you dont.
Its "unmerited favor".
Should I give unmerited favor to green when she continues to spread lies of traditions of men?
She's not helping matters.

[StackerKen]

Do you know what grace is?
If you dont.
Its "unmerited favor".
Should I give unmerited favor to green when she continues to spread lies of traditions of men?
She's not helping matters.


God has extended his Grace to you and I.

So yes, I think we should extend it to others the best we can.

But I'm sorry if I sound self-righteous. I don't mean to...and I don't want to.

[7th trump]

Do you know what grace is?
If you dont.
Its "unmerited favor".
Should I give unmerited favor to green when she continues to spread lies of traditions of men?
She's not helping matters.


God has extended his Grace to you and I.

So yes, I think we should extend it to others the best we can.

But I'm sorry if I sound self-righteous. I don't mean to...and I don't want to.

Ken you are the last person that I would consider self righteous.
Tried to extend it to green but I run into an ego.

[LuckyStrike]

If white men of Nordic or Anglo-Saxon lineage are really the children of Israel then surely there must be indications of this in the Bible which came from the Jews/Israel. Do you have any clear scriptural evidence this is the case? An answer of "yes I do but you're just too dumb to understand" doesn't cut it, lol.


I don't mean to insult you an insinuate you are dumb because I can assure you that I don't think so. My point is that I can't explain something to anyone if they lack the willingness to learn. To be honest I do get frustrated talking to people over the net because you have no way to know if they are actually reading what you tell them. However I a reminded myself of the first time someone told me "Jesus was not a jew" luckily if it was over the internet because had it been face to face I may have struck them I was so appalled at the apparent blasphemy.

Needless to say it was probably 3 years from the time I first heard of the term CI until by chance I actually began to research it. Now I am thankful that I was led in that direction.

Also here is a link describing with archaeological as well as historical data the migrations of Israel. I sincerely hope you will take the time to watch it (power point)

http://anglo-saxonisrael.com/site/migchron

[LuckyStrike]

I have been away from this thread but after reading through the last few posts I hope we can stay on track and keep it civil.

It has been a great discussion so far with good points being raised all around. I'm not defending anyone or taking sides (people know where I stand) but I don't want people to provoke anyone to derail this thread or turn it into a mess.

I'm speaking to myself as much as anyone.

[greenbear]

Thanks, Nordic. We all have lives apart from GSUS. I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I'll watch the video tonight or tomorrow. :)

[greenbear]

The foundation of the Identity belief system is British-Israelism. There is absolutely no scriptural, historical, or scientific support of any kind for this insanity. BI has been soundly refuted by human genetics research, linguistics, archeology, historical evidence, and scripture. B-I and CI in America are Aryan "Christian" nationalism which parallels the "Christian" Nationalism of Nazi Germany. I truly feel sorry for those who are caught up in this profane and old wives' fable and ridiculous fake genealogy. I'm including a few links to material (secular and Christian) refuting this hate-filled false movement for anyone who's interested in further examining this topic.


http://www.scribd.com/doc/16215345/British-Israelism-Exposed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Israelism

http://www.bibletopics.com/biblestudy/152.htm

http://www.questia.com/library/book/religion-and-the-racist-right-the-origins-of-the-christian-identity-movement-by-michael-barkun.jsp

[Quantum]

I truly feel sorry for those who are caught up in this profane and old wives' fable and ridiculous fake genealogy. I'm including a few links to material (secular and Christian) refuting this hate-filled false movement for anyone who's interested in further examining this topic.

[garbage propaganda links deleted]


Like I noted before, you are not interested in the truth.

You are a shill for Christ's enemies, the Khazar "Jews." That makes you, Christ's enemy.

[Quantum]

I have been away from this thread but after reading through the last few posts I hope we can stay on track and keep it civil.

It has been a great discussion so far with good points being raised all around. I'm not defending anyone or taking sides (people know where I stand) but I don't want people to provoke anyone to derail this thread or turn it into a mess.

I'm speaking to myself as much as anyone.


Too bad your sincere sentiment was used to plant the knife in your back after you let your guard down. You're involved in a "hate-filled false movement" of "anti-Semitism," you know. We must never let our guard down when dealing with those who apologize for the Devil and his servants (usually, those who apologize are his servant).

Any "Christian" more obsessed with "anti-Semitism" or "racism" than anti-Christism is no Christian at all. Anyone who refuses to denounce the anti-Christ "State of Israel" or the anti-Christ followers of the Talmud (all of them) is an ally of the Devil.

[greenbear]

Telling the truth is not sticking a knife in someone's back. Telling people who are caught up in an especially heinous cult the truth that they need to be saved by believing in Christ's atonement for their sin just like any other person of any race on the face of the earth is love, not hate. There is nothing special about being born a white man. You are not responsible for the race you were born, and you can take no credit for it. You are nothing, I am nothing. All glory should go to Jesus Christ. He is the only "special" Man because he is God in the flesh. Every other person ever born or ever to be born is just dust. No one is special because of their own merits in God's eyes.

http://www.watchman.org/profile/identitypro.htm

Christian Identity



Publications: Books include Your Heritage, America Free, White and Christian, and The Kingdom of God - Our Heritage. Periodicals include Posse Comitatus Intelligence-Update, America’s Promise Newsletter, The Way, and Scriptures for America Worldwide.
Organizational Structure: Numerous independent groups.
Group Names: Elohim City, America’s Promise, The Church of Jesus Christ Christian/Aryan Nations, Kingdom Identity Ministries, Posse Comitatus, Stone Kingdom Ministries, Christian Conservative Churches, Church of Israel, Scriptures for America/LaPorte Church of Christ, and numerous others.
Unique terms: Identity, Anglo-Israelism, Seedline.

History

The public perception of Identity has been shaped by media coverage of skinheads, neo-Nazis, and hate crimes against minorities. However, the Identity movement is far more diverse, embracing a growing number of disaffected people in America’s heartland. The term "Christian Identity" expresses their belief, supposedly based in Christianity, that the "identity" of the White race is that it is God’s chosen people.

The doctrinal seed of Identity was the theory, first popularized by John Wilson’s book Lectures on Our Israelitish Origins (1840), that the "ten lost tribes of Israel" taken captive by the Assyrians in the eighth century BC had been assimilated into the pagan cultures of Europe and especially Britain. Thus, people of Anglo-Saxon descent were identified as heirs of the promises made to Israel in the Old Testament.1 Anglo-Israel-ism was originally not an anti-Semitic doctrine; its advocates typically viewed the Jews as legitimate descendants of Israel along with the Anglo-Saxon peoples. Not all Anglo-Israelites today are anti-Semitic, nor are they all part of the Identity movement.

In the hands of anti-Semites the doctrine of Anglo-Israelism was transformed into an ideology of hate. Leading the way was William J. Cameron, Henry Ford’s media spokesman and the editor of Ford’s newspaper, The Dearborn Independent. Beginning in July of 1920, Cameron ran a series of widely distributed, defamatory articles called "The International Jew."2 The Independent was based on a fraudulent document titled Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. The articles were required reading at Ford dealerships across the country and were published in book form. Under public pressure Ford later repudiated the book and closed The Independent in 1927.3

Another merchant of hate, Reuben H. Sawyer, was a Ku Klux Klan member who transformed Anglo-Israelism into a virulent racist theology by linking Judaism with Bolshevism.4 A number of Klan leaders have adopted Identity theology.

A series of California conferences beginning in the late 1930s brought together the emerging leaders of the Identity movement. One man, Gerald L. K. Smith, organized and gave voice to the next generation of Identity leaders. Smith called for, "the deportation of all Zionists, abolition of all ‘Jewish Gestapo organizations,’ shipping all black people to Africa, and liquidation of the United Nations."5 Many of Smith’s co-workers went on to form their own Identity organizations. William Potter Gale, who died in 1988, was one of the founders of the Posse Comitatus. A number of Posse members have had run-ins with law enforcement, the most notable being Gordon Kahl, a tax protester who died in a shootout with authorities in 1983. The Posse believes there is no Constitutional governing power greater than the county sheriff.6

Dan Gayman is head of the Church of Israel in Schell City, Missouri. He is best known for his work in the "seed line," or "serpent’s seed" doctrine. Today Gayman is content to preach Identity, non-violence, and apocalyptic survivalism.

Another leader in the Identity movement is Richard Butler, founder of The Aryan Nations at Hayden Lake, Idaho. Butler’s annual Aryan Nations Congress assembled "racialists" (as they prefer to be called) from across the land. Aryan Nations has been active in outreach into prisons. Its publication, The Way, was influential in the formation of The Aryan Brotherhood, an Identity prison gang. A number of Butler’s followers left his compound in the early 1980s and joined Robert Mathews to form the infamous group, The Order. In the 1990s, Butler has lost his leadership role due to strong rhetoric without accompanying action.7

The "Christian" Identity movement is small in number and lacks central organization and leadership. However, its publications, internet presence, and cable broadcasts reach countless numbers of unseen believers. Its influence is accountable for numerous hate crimes by individual adherents.

Doctrines

In general, Identity groups profess to be Christians of a generically Protestant perspective. It is unclear what most Identity followers believe about such essentials as the Trinity or the atonement. What unites these groups is their hostility toward others, notably Jews, Catholics, and people of other races (especially Blacks).

Anglo-Israelism. Identity followers believe that Anglo-Saxons, or more broadly Whites, are the true people of Israel, the true inheritors of the promises made to Abraham and his descendants. For example, Kingdom Identity Ministries teaches:
#

We believe the White, Anglo-Saxon, Germanic and kindred people to be God’s true, literal Children of Israel… This chosen seedline making up the "Christian Nations"…of the earth stands far superior to all other peoples in their call as God’s servant race….and are the "Christians" opposed by the Satanic Anti-Christ forces of this world…8

Pre-Adamite Theory. Identity advocates claim not only that Whites are the true Israel, but also that Whites are the true descendants of Adam. People of all other races are said to be descended from human beings created before Adam. These pre-Adamites are equated in Identity teaching with the "beasts of the earth" that God had made before Adam (Genesis 1:24-25). For example, Bertrand Camparet of Aryan Nations writes:
#

God had millions of the pre-Adamic Asiatic and African peoples around. . . . If these Negroes and Mongoloids were all that God wanted, he already had them.9

Serpent’s Seed Doctrine. Most Identity believers hold that Cain was the offspring of Eve and Satan (represented by the serpent). According to this "two seed lines" doctrine, as it is also known, Cain and his descendants intermarried with the pre-Adamites, resulting in a "mongrel" race now known as the Jews. For example, the Aryan Nations Web site states:
#

WE BELIEVE that there are literal children of Satan in the world today. These children are the descendants of Cain, who was the result of Eve’s original sin, her physical seduction by Satan.10

Likewise, the Web site of The Posse Comitatus asserts:
#

Most, that call themselves jews [sic] today are in fact of the race of Lucifer through his son Cain. Cain was inherently evil from the beginning because he was of Lucifer’s seed. Eve was beguiled by Lucifer and did, in the carnal sense, lay with him and begot Cain. It was a pair on the ground, not an apple on a tree! Eve was deceived by Lucifer and was lead (sic) to believe that she was laying with Yahweh God.11

Armageddon as an Imminent Race War. God’s warning that there would be enmity between the woman’s seed and the serpent’s seed (Genesis 3:15) is interpreted as forecasting conflict between Whites and non-Whites, especially the Jews. According to Identity belief, there is a centuries-old Jewish conspiracy to control the world. The United States government, the United Nations, and all major social entities are regarded as Jewish puppet organizations. For example, Colonel Jack Mohr of Crusade for Christ and Country has stated:
#

We know they have intimidated and imposed their will on our own government and every government in the nations of Christendom, through their dominance of finance, government, church, education, and the media.12

The Identity movement claims that resistance by Whites to this global conspiracy will eventually result in Armageddon. They typically view America as a kind of new Promised Land and as the place where the Whites’ final stand against the Jews and other races will take place very soon. At an Aryan Nations meeting, Thom Robb, a KKK leader, put it this way:
#

There is a war in America today and there are two camps. One camp is in Washington, D.C., the federal government controlled by the anti-Christ Jews. . . . [T]heir goal is the destruction of our race, our faith and our people. And our goal is the destruction of them. There is no middle ground. We’re not going to take any survivors, or prisoners. It’s us or them.13

Biblical Response

Since advocates of the Identity teaching use the Bible to justify their racist views, it is important for Christians to understand what the Bible actually says about these matters. It should be kept in mind, however, that the principal motivations of the Identity movement are political, economic, and emotional.

Anglo-Israelism. The Bible contradicts the idea that the ten tribes of the northern kingdom of Israel were "lost" when they were conquered by Assyria. The northern kingdom was destroyed, but a remnant of the people of Israel were preserved (Amos 9:9). Some Israelites fled into the southern kingdom of Judah before and at the time of the Assyrian onslaught, a fact confirmed by archaeological excavations showing that Jerusalem’s population swelled at the end of the eighth century B.C.14 Other Israelites returned to the land years later, either to Judah or the north.
#

I will bring them again also out of the land of Egypt, and gather them from Assyria; and I will bring them into the land of Gilead and Lebanon; and place shall not be found for them (Zech. 10:10).

In the New Testament period the people of Israel, not only of the ten tribes but of all twelve, were scattered, but they were not "lost" or missing in unknown parts of the world. Thus, James could address his epistle "to the twelve tribes scattered abroad" (James 1:1). Paul could refer to the resurrection from the dead as "the promise to which our twelve tribes hope to attain, as they earnestly serve God day and night" (Acts 26:6-7). Anna, the prophetess at the Jerusalem temple who recognized the infant Jesus as the Messiah, was "of the tribe of Asher" (Luke 2:36). Obviously, the tribe of Asher was not lost, nor was it to be found across the continent.

Pre-Adamite Theory. The theory that all non-Whites are descended from a pre-Adamite race of human beings is flatly contradictory to the Bible’s teaching. Genesis states, "God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them" (Genesis 1:27). It was "man" as such (that is, mankind, including both "male and female"), not the White man, that God created in his image. That this includes people of all races and nations is clearly affirmed by Paul:
#

The God who made the world and all things in it . . . He made from one every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth (Acts 17:24, 26).

The Identity theory that the non-white races are referred to in Genesis as "the beasts of the earth" (Gen. 1:24-25) is, therefore, utterly false. The term refers generally to land animals and is never used in the Bible to refer to humans of any race.

Serpent’s Seed Doctrine. The idea that Eve had sexual relations with the serpent, or Satan, or that the serpent was in any way responsible for the conception and birth of Cain, is totally foreign to the Bible:
#

And Adam knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord (Genesis 4:1).

Here the Holy Spirit explicitly identifies Adam as the biological father of Cain, and makes it clear that Eve regarded Cain’s birth as a blessing from God.

Of course, race is completely irrelevant to a person’s standing with God.
#

For you are all the Children of God by faith in Christ Jesus....There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. (Galatians 3:26-28).

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands (Revelation 7:9 and Revelation 5:9).

Armageddon as an Imminent Race War. Contrary to popular opinion, Armageddon in the Bible does not refer to a kind of "World War III" between rival groups of people. In the Book of Revelation, Armageddon represents the gathering of the demonically inspired powers of the nations of the earth, where God brings his wrath on them (Rev. 16:14-21). Nowhere in the Bible is the final judgment of the wicked presented as a battle between peoples of different races.

The Identity teaching does not merely result in a particularly radical (and often violent) form of racism. It utterly negates the gospel of grace. The message of Christianity is that God graciously extends salvation to people irrespective of anything which they might imagine would make them superior to other people. "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). The ultimate conflict in this world is not between Whites and non-Whites, but between God and Satan, between righteousness and sin. Our fight is not with "flesh and blood"—with human beings, of any race—but with the spiritual forces of evil that wage war against our souls (Ephesians 6:12). The Identity doctrine perverts Christianity from a redemptive theology into a racist ideology. It is therefore not truly Christian.

1 Richard Abanes, Rebellion, Racism and Religion: American Militias (InterVarsity Press, Downers Grove, Illinois, 1996): 157-9.
2 Jeffrey Kaplan, Radical Religion in America (Syracuse, New York, Syracuse University Press, 1997) 1.
3 James Ridgeway, Blood in the Face, (New York, Thunder’s Mouth Press, 1990): 38-43.
4 Richard Barkun, Religion and the Religious Right: The Origins of the Christian Identity Movement (Chapel Hill: University of North Carolina Press, 1994): 24-5.
5 J. Gordon Melton [Online], URL http://www.americanreligion.org/cultwtch/identity.html.
6 Don Black, "The Watchman Has Been Shut Down," {Online}. URL http://www2.stormfront.org/watchman/index.html.
7 Kaplan, 5-6, 55-6.
8 See "Doctrinal Statement of Beliefs," [Online]. URL http://www.kingidentity.com/doctrine.html.
9 Bertrand Camparet, The Cain-Satanic Seed Line (Hayden Lake, ID: Aryan Nations, n.d.), 5, quoted in Abanes, American Militias, 163.
10 The ARYAN NATIONS website [Online]. URL http: //www.nidlink.com/~aryanvic/index-E.html.
11 "Racial Identity," [Online]. URL http://www.posse-comitatus.org/p2.html.
12 Jack Mohr, Seed of Satan: Literal or Figurative? as quoted by Viola Larson, "Identity: A ‘Christian’ Reli-gion for White Racists," CRI Journal (Fall 1992): 23.
13 Thom Robb, in the Minneapolis Star-Tribune, 22 July 1986, 9A, quoted in Abanes, American Militias, 167.
14 Magen Broshi, "Part of the Ten Lost Tribes Located," Biblical Archeology Review, 1 (September 1975): 27.

[LuckyStrike]

Too bad your sincere sentiment was used to plant the knife in your back after you let your guard down. You're involved in a "hate-filled false movement" of "anti-Semitism," you know. We must never let our guard down when dealing with those who apologize for the Devil and his servants (usually, those who apologize are his servant).

Any "Christian" more obsessed with "anti-Semitism" or "racism" than anti-Christism is no Christian at all. Anyone who refuses to denounce the anti-Christ "State of Israel" or the anti-Christ followers of the Talmud (all of them) is an ally of the Devil.


I don't let my guard down but rather attempt to remember what it was like for me the first time I heard the basics of CI. Learning judeo Christianity my entire life I was full of pride and thought I "knew". So needless to say I work to practice self restraint when it comes to people who hear this message for the first time. You nor I can change anyones mind only Yahweh can do that. It was several years and only then by apparent chance that I took a closer examination of CI. So for those who doubt it now, so long as the have a hear for Truth and pursue it honestly they will find it.

Researching means learning about a subject, not what others in your camp tell you about it greenbear. When you want to learn I suggest starting here. http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=21924&cmd=tc

PS to Quantum. The passage in my sig is there for a reason. ;) I love women but when it comes to having logical discussions with them you may as well converse with a dog. In fact that would probably be a more enjoyable experience.

[Quantum]

Telling the truth is not sticking a knife in someone's back.


Why don't you start? Bearing false witness against your neighbors isn't telling the truth.




Telling people who are caught up in an especially heinous cult the truth that they need to be saved by believing in Christ's atonement for their sin just like any other person of any race on the face of the earth is love, not hate.


You don't seem bothered one bit by your deep involvement in the satanic Judeo-"Christian" cult. Khazar, Talmudic "Jews" are first for you, always.




There is nothing special about being born a white man.


So all creatures are equivalent to Adam? Adamites and monkeys are equal? Adamites and pigs are equal?




You are not responsible for the race you were born, and you can take no credit for it. You are nothing, I am nothing. All glory should go to Jesus Christ.


It's called CHRISTIAN Identity for a reason! Christ is King to every CI and allied believer.

I was born in the Image of God, as an Adamite, and that's Christ's doing, yes. I can and should be thankful for it. I can and must be protective of God's image from the abomination of race-mixing. It is the DEVIL who wants race-mixing to succeed.

[greenbear]

Originally, written Hebrew used only consonants. The name ‘Adam’ comprises the same consonants as does the name ‘Edom’ (aleph; daleth; mem). Edom was Esau, the brother of Jacob; people called him Edom because he had red hair (Genesis 25:25,29). So if ‘red’ is implied in Adam’s name, it doesn’t have to refer to blushing. It could refer to the red colour of the dirt that God used to make Adam.

The Hebrew word for ‘ground’ – ădāmah – comprises the same consonants used in the name ‘Adam’ (the final ‘h’ is the singular feminine ending). In this case, the ‘red’ may refer to the colour of Adam and Eve’s skin, which would be similar to that of indigenous (Indian) Americans.

This connection – our connection – to the ground might be God’s reminder to us: ‘By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.’ (Genesis 3:19)

2. The name ‘Adam’ is also the generic word for ‘humanity’. All humans have the capacity to blush, irrespective of their race, so this destroys the argument that the ‘red’ of Adam’s name means ‘to blush’, and only white people blush.

There are two intriguing and disturbing implications of the ‘red means blushing’ theory. Mark Twain commented, ‘Humans are the only animals who blush — or who need to.’ Before the Fall, there was no shame and no embarrassment. Why would a person blush if they have nothing to be ashamed of or embarrassed about? But the ‘blushing’ theory means that God named Adam before the Fall: ‘the blushing one’. For the Hebrew, the name of a thing was also its character, such as the name ‘Jacob’ could figuratively mean, ‘he deceives’. This being so, the inference is that God was responsible for Adam’s rebellion – before Adam sinned and had reason to blush, God named him for the display of embarrassment brought about by sin! That isn’t God.

The second implication is this: Adam and Eve were responsible for rebelling against God and bringing sin, evil, sickness, decay and death into the world. And they were … white, was it?


As I am reading this thread again I noticed this is a good post, and it answers arguments that were given later on the thread. That's a great point about Adam (supposedly white man) responsible for mankind's fall. Or only white man's fall? Does that mean that non-whites aren't fallen? What confusion arises from contorting Bible verses to prop up some prideful, perverse doctrines.

[Quantum]

I don't let my guard down but rather attempt to remember what it was like for me the first time I heard the basics of CI. Learning judeo Christianity my entire life I was full of pride and thought I "knew". So needless to say I work to practice self restraint when it comes to people who hear this message for the first time.


I understand and agree. Ken "fits" this statement, but greenbear does not. Greenbear is an ideologue, hell-bent on defending Judeo-"Christianity." This person is well-versed in CI/Adamic Christianity, as can be seen in their paraprofessional expertise in posting Babylonian race-mixing propaganda and Judeophilic filth against "anti-Semitism" and "racism." Probably on some SPLC and/or ADL insider's list.




You nor I can change anyones mind only Yahweh can do that.


Yes, and God does not force the Truth upon people. Greenbear will need to want to be receptive to the Truth, or else will continue to be under the "strong delusion" that their adherence to lies earns them.




PS to Quantum. The passage in my sig is there for a reason. ;) I love women but when it comes to having logical discussions with them you may as well converse with a dog. In fact that would probably be a more enjoyable experience.


Thank God not all women are like that! But yes, I know the type.

[Quantum]

What confusion arises from contorting Bible verses to prop up some prideful, perverse doctrines.


You mean like your ideology that insists the Khazar Talmudist "Jews" are God's "chosen people"? Talk about both prideful and perverse!

Being God's (real) chosen people is a BURDEN, not a license to rule.

[StackerKen]

I agree that all men on earth a descendent's of Noah and his sons.

I don't know how anyone could think otherwise

Everyone else was killed in the flood.

[LuckyStrike]

You nor I can change anyones mind only Yahweh can do that.


Yes, and God does not force the Truth upon people. Greenbear will need to want to be receptive to the Truth, or else will continue to be under the "strong delusion" that their adherence to lies earns them.


Indeed, the verse comes to mind "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me"

As you well know the message isn't for everyone and over the internet it is impossible to tell (not that it is for us to decide anyway)

The following verses also come to mind while browsing this thread.

"Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not?"

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."

[fiftybagger]

Christian identity, what can I say? Pagan occultists of the American branch who have no real racial identity, so who must steal and seize the heritage of Jews.

You are Americans. Americans are not a NATION, they are a state. Americans are the ancestors of various European nations who created a state based upon a Judeo/Christian framework. We are comprised of dark skinned italians and alabaster skinned northern europeans, and everything in between. We are MANY races who assent to a shared idea.

Anyway, Christianity is a religion. A religion that has NOTHING to do with race, except for the fact that it is to be preached to ALL nations and was provided to us by the Jews, God's chosen people. If you don't believe that ALL the men who live on this earth are the descendants of Noah and his sons then there is nothing I can do for you. You believe that God is a liar and his Word is not true. Go set up your commune and await the ATF. Good luck to you.

Why is there a Christian Identity movement? Because you have no identity, so you STEAL yours from the Jews. I would venture to guess you don't even know what your IDENTITY is. I am Welsh, Irish, German, Dutch, American Indian, and a sprinkling of others. What are you? White? Hahahahaha, what a joke, white isn't even a race, it's a pigment. Your racism is so ridiculous that it is beyond absurd.

You are not a Christian, and you care not one whit what the Bible teaches. You are a racist who hates others because of the color of their skin, and you seek to justify yourself based upon Scriptures which you do not understand. Your father is the devil and like your father you will lie, steal, and kill to get your way. You are a thief who will not enter the door because you seek some other way. And the only way in the door is through the incarnate Son of God, Jesus Christ, the Son of David, a Jew. Any other way leads to the lake of fire, the eternal and everlasting reward of those who try to go in by any other door.

1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. 6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.

7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. 10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

John 10
King James Version

9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. 10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. 11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 2
King James Version

[LuckyStrike]

In my opinion there is no reason to keep discussing Christian Identity with someone who isn't receptive, like I said earlier I don't hold it against them because I was very turned off by it when I first heard of it. The information is out there, and I've posted a link with thousands of hours worth of sermons which lay out exactly what CI is all about.

I have heard many testimonies of people who have come to CI and a major theme in most of them is the fact that they were appalled by it when they first heard about it, I even heard a guy today who said he researched it only to try and prove their claims wrong and was unable to.

The information I provided is readily available but to continue on with someone who just uses PC words like "racist, nazi, bigot" etc just gets boring and shows their lack of evidence to refute our claims.

[7th trump]

I agree that all men on earth a descendent's of Noah and his sons.

I don't know how anyone could think otherwise

Everyone else was killed in the flood.

Not exactly Ken. God order Noah to take at least two of every flesh.
Maybe you are not aware that two of every flesh is not just animals, but of different races of man as well.

Theres a verse I'm looking for that confirms when the waters dried up someone took a wife from the land of ?????.
How did this female remain unscathed from the waters?

[LuckyStrike]

Christian identity, what can I say? Pagan occultists of the American branch who have no real racial identity, so who must steal and seize the heritage of Jews.

You are Americans. Americans are not a NATION, they are a state. Americans are the ancestors of various European nations who created a state based upon a Judeo/Christian framework. We are comprised of dark skinned italians and alabaster skinned northern europeans, and everything in between. We are MANY races who assent to a shared idea.

Anyway, Christianity is a religion. A religion that has NOTHING to do with race, except for the fact that it is to be preached to ALL nations and was provided to us by the Jews, God's chosen people. If you don't believe that ALL the men who live on this earth are the descendants of Noah and his sons then there is nothing I can do for you. You believe that God is a liar and his Word is not true. Go set up your commune and await the ATF. Good luck to you.

Why is there a Christian Identity movement? Because you have no identity, so you STEAL yours from the Jews. I would venture to guess you don't even know what your IDENTITY is. I am Welsh, Irish, German, Dutch, American Indian, and a sprinkling of others. What are you? White? Hahahahaha, what a joke, white isn't even a race, it's a pigment. Your racism is so ridiculous that it is beyond absurd.

You are not a Christian, and you care not one whit what the Bible teaches. You are a racist who hates others because of the color of their skin, and you seek to justify yourself based upon Scriptures which you do not understand. Your father is the devil and like your father you will lie, steal, and kill to get your way. You are a thief who will not enter the door because you seek some other way. And the only way in the door is through the incarnate Son of God, Jesus Christ, the Son of David, a Jew. Any other way leads to the lake of fire, the eternal and everlasting reward of those who try to go in by any other door.

1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. 6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.

7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. 10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

John 10
King James Version

9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. 10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. 11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 2
King James Version



If CI is a lie then you will have no trouble refuting the following.

http://gold-silver.us/forum/religion-and-philosophy/50-bible-reasons-why-the-jews-are-not-israel/


I eagerly await your refutation of those verses. And heck to speed things up the author even has 1000 dollars up for grabs if you can disprove it! :o

[Quantum]

I agree that all men on earth a descendent's of Noah and his sons.

I don't know how anyone could think otherwise

Everyone else was killed in the flood.


The issue is what or who are "beasts of the field"?

If Adamites alone are "men," then...?

How could Noah and sons produce both a White man and a Negro? Evolution?

[philo beddoe]

Christian identity, what can I say? Pagan occultists of the American branch who have no real racial identity, so who must steal and seize the heritage of Jews.

You are Americans. Americans are not a NATION, they are a state. Americans are the ancestors of various European nations who created a state based upon a Judeo/Christian framework. We are comprised of dark skinned italians and alabaster skinned northern europeans, and everything in between. We are MANY races who assent to a shared idea.

Anyway, Christianity is a religion. A religion that has NOTHING to do with race, except for the fact that it is to be preached to ALL nations and was provided to us by the Jews, God's chosen people. If you don't believe that ALL the men who live on this earth are the descendants of Noah and his sons then there is nothing I can do for you. You believe that God is a liar and his Word is not true. Go set up your commune and await the ATF. Good luck to you.

Why is there a Christian Identity movement? Because you have no identity, so you STEAL yours from the Jews. I would venture to guess you don't even know what your IDENTITY is. I am Welsh, Irish, German, Dutch, American Indian, and a sprinkling of others. What are you? White? Hahahahaha, what a joke, white isn't even a race, it's a pigment. Your racism is so ridiculous that it is beyond absurd.

You are not a Christian, and you care not one whit what the Bible teaches. You are a racist who hates others because of the color of their skin, and you seek to justify yourself based upon Scriptures which you do not understand. Your father is the devil and like your father you will lie, steal, and kill to get your way. You are a thief who will not enter the door because you seek some other way. And the only way in the door is through the incarnate Son of God, Jesus Christ, the Son of David, a Jew. Any other way leads to the lake of fire, the eternal and everlasting reward of those who try to go in by any other door.

1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. 6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.

7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. 10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

John 10
King James Version

9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. 10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. 11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 2
King James Version

Christianity was not provided to us by the chosen. According to the bible, basically the only people Christ rejected was in fact the joos.

[StackerKen]

2 Peter 2:5
And God did not spare the ancient world--except for Noah and the seven others in his family. Noah warned the world of God's righteous judgment. So God protected Noah when he destroyed the world of ungodly people with a vast flood.

[LuckyStrike]

If CI is a lie then you will have no trouble refuting the following.

http://gold-silver.us/forum/religion-and-philosophy/50-bible-reasons-why-the-jews-are-not-israel/


I eagerly await your refutation of those verses. And heck to speed things up the author even has 1000 dollars up for grabs if you can disprove it! :o


Allow me to follow up this challenge with a prediction.

You either ignore it completely as EVERYONE has done so far. Or you come back with personal attacks against me and CI in general.

[Quantum]

Christian identity, what can I say? Pagan occultists of the American branch who have no real racial identity, so who must steal and seize the heritage of Jews.


The Synagogue of Satan that you worship as "Jews" are who stole the identity of the Biblical Judeans.




You are Americans. Americans are not a NATION, they are a state. Americans are the ancestors of various European nations who created a state based upon a Judeo/Christian framework. We are comprised of dark skinned italians and alabaster skinned northern europeans, and everything in between. We are MANY races who assent to a shared idea.


This country was founded by White men FOR White men.

No matter where I or my kinsmen live, we are Adamites. You can embrace your Mystery Babylon state identity.




If you don't believe that ALL the men who live on this earth are the descendants of Noah and his sons then there is nothing I can do for you. You believe that God is a liar and his Word is not true.


No, I regard you as the liar.

All "aw-dawm" (Adamites) are descendants of Noah. The other humanoids are from pre-Adamites.

If you believe God is true, what do you have to say about 1 John 2:22-23?




Go set up your commune and await the ATF.


Said just like a Satanic Talmudist! Feel the lust for violence.




I am...American Indian


Ah, a vested interest in Biblical racial identity being obscured!




What are you? White? Hahahahaha, what a joke, white isn't even a race, it's a pigment.


I am an Adam-man. You are a mamzer.




You are not a Christian, and you care not one whit what the Bible teaches.


You serve the Devil, and want his children (John 8:44) to succeed in their New World Order of Babel II.




You are a racist


Just like our Heavenly Father.



Your father is the devil and like your father you will lie, steal, and kill to get your way.


I'm not doing his work; YOU are. You promote the Satanic Talmud "Jews" as God's chosen," despite Christ naming them as Satanic, and St. John making it even more clear. You promote the abomination of race-mixing, because, you yourself, as admitted above, are a product of such abomination.




You are a thief who will not enter the door because you seek some other way.


LOL

I suppose you believe all the victims of the "Holocaust" went to Heaven because of their "chosen" status, despite the fact their religion, "Judaism," says Jesus Christ is being punished in Hell with "boiling hot semen" (quote unquote).




And the only way in the door is through the incarnate Son of God, Jesus Christ, the Son of David, a Jew.


But not a Khazar Talmudist.

Jesus Christ = real Jew (Judean).

Talmudists = FAKE "Jews."

[greenbear]

In my opinion there is no reason to keep discussing Christian Identity with someone who isn't receptive, like I said earlier I don't hold it against them because I was very turned off by it when I first heard of it. The information is out there, and I've posted a link with thousands of hours worth of sermons which lay out exactly what CI is all about.

I have heard many testimonies of people who have come to CI and a major theme in most of them is the fact that they were appalled by it when they first heard about it, I even heard a guy today who said he researched it only to try and prove their claims wrong and was unable to.

The information I provided is readily available but to continue on with someone who just uses PC words like "racist, nazi, bigot" etc just gets boring and shows their lack of evidence to refute our claims.


The curtain has been pulled back to expose the belief structure behind the rabid anti-semitism and hate for non-whites of many of those on this forum who plaster every thread with their propaganda. British-Israelism is the basis of your belief system, and it has been soundly refuted in every quarter, in every way imaginable. The idea that white people are really Israel but they just forgot is laughable. There is zero evidence that whites are Israel and overwhelming evidence that the whites are not Israel. Only people who consent to be brainwashed as adults, or are brainwashed as children could possibly believe the bizarre doctrines Identity teaches. You people are shown for what you are regardless of your protestations of being God's chosen race who are being treated so insensitively by those who refuse to see your "truth".

[Quantum]

2 Peter 2:5
And God did not spare the ancient world--except for Noah and the seven others in his family. Noah warned the world of God's righteous judgment. So God protected Noah when he destroyed the world of ungodly people with a vast flood.




Apparently, God does not consider pre-Adamites as "people," or else He'd have said more survived on the Ark.

Just like Jefferson's definition of "men" (in "all men are created equal"), the definition in the Bible is not the definition used in today's politically-correct world. I think of the joke about the NAACP = Now Apes Are Called People.

[TPTB]

What a joke...

This thread exemplifies why I am NOT Christian and hold no interest in becoming such.

It seems that most (with few exceptions) who claim to be Christian also claim to have "Truth," and yet each Christian also must interpret the meanings from the Bible while simultaneously believing that their personal interpretations are somehow unimpeachable.

You people don't even need real enemies. You destroy yourselves with your own intransigence. You in-fight constantly, breaking down any chance at community at every turn as you see the devil in every face.

No wonder you hate. Being completely surrounded by demons and devils and enemies always. It's no wonder you all seem to want end times.

[Quantum]

The curtain has been pulled back to expose the belief structure behind the rabid anti-semitism


How much effort do you expend teaching people about the anti-Christism of those you call "Jews"? None? Little?

As I've said before, fake Christians (i.e., "Judeo-Christians") are far more concerned about "anti-Semitism" than anti-Christism.




British-Israelism is the basis of your belief system


No, the Bible is the basis of my belief system. The Talmud, yours.



The idea that white people are really Israel but they just forgot is laughable.


Why don't you prove us wrong, by irrefutably proving that the "Jews" you worship are really Israelites?

[LuckyStrike]

In my opinion there is no reason to keep discussing Christian Identity with someone who isn't receptive, like I said earlier I don't hold it against them because I was very turned off by it when I first heard of it. The information is out there, and I've posted a link with thousands of hours worth of sermons which lay out exactly what CI is all about.

I have heard many testimonies of people who have come to CI and a major theme in most of them is the fact that they were appalled by it when they first heard about it, I even heard a guy today who said he researched it only to try and prove their claims wrong and was unable to.

The information I provided is readily available but to continue on with someone who just uses PC words like "racist, nazi, bigot" etc just gets boring and shows their lack of evidence to refute our claims.


The curtain has been pulled back to expose the belief structure behind the rabid anti-semitism and hate for non-whites of many of those on this forum who plaster every thread with their propaganda. British-Israelism is the basis of your belief system, and it has been soundly refuted in every quarter, in every way imaginable. The idea that white people are really Israel but they just forgot is laughable. There is zero evidence that whites are Israel and overwhelming evidence that the whites are not Israel. Only people who consent to be brainwashed as adults, or are brainwashed as children could possibly believe the bizarre doctrines Identity teaches. You people are shown for what you are regardless of your protestations of being God's chosen race who are being treated so insensitively by those who refuse to see your "truth".


You keep saying that it has been shown and act like it is without a doubt proven fact when you can't refute anything or are unwilling to. I have provided in great detail a link to the migrations of the 12 tribes of Israel which you also haven't refuted. Your only argument is that CI is "racist anti semitic blah blah blah" which I hate to inform you isn't an argument at all.

As I brought up earlier when Jesus said "my sheep hear my voice" meaning if you aren't his sheep you don't hear his voice, the Bible is written to for and about Israel nobody else, this dispensentionalist nonsense of the criminal (literally) Cyrus Scoffield is a joke. I say that to say that now that your husband admits he is race mixed then it perfectly explains why this message isn't for him.

Deuteronomy 23:2 sums it up perfectly

A bastard (mixed race) shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

[Horn]

I am Welsh, Irish, German, Dutch, American Indian, and a sprinkling of others. .

Ima Heinz 57 too!


Mutts are by far the hottest creatures on the planet.

Pure breeds are nothing but flaccid sinew, and also cold in the sack.

That last part's no philosophy either, it's learned fact. ;D

[Quantum]

I am Welsh, Irish, German, Dutch, American Indian, and a sprinkling of others. .

Ima Heinz 57 too!


Mutts are by far the hottest creatures on the planet.

Pure breeds are nothing but flaccid sinew, and also cold in the sack.

That last part's no philosophy either, it's learned fact. ;D




Some guys like mutts, some guys like other guys. Same perversion. Same difference lying with a mamzer as with a man, both are abomination.

Adam-men like Eve-women. No strange flesh for God's sons.

[LuckyStrike]

I've read this whole thread and it's very interesting to me. I've always been intrigued by CI, but never got around to any serious in-depth study. Nordic, you seem to be pretty knowledgeable about it, can I ask you a question? From the CI perspective, why did God send Jonah to minister and call to repentance the Ninevites? I always understood this as an example that God was concerned with the salvation of all peoples, not just the Israelites.


Hey madfranks to be honest I am relatively knew to CI time wise although I listen to 3+ hours per day of sermons so I'm learning a lot so far. Although I am by no means an expert in the field. Which is sad because even though I feel like I have little knowledge on the subject it is no trouble to win debates with people who apparently consider themselves experts, which of course is the benefit of having the Truth on your side.

I had and still have a lot of questions myself and I've found that usually they are answered in a later sermon, if not I have written Pastor Eli James to ask his opinion on various subjects. I can write Eli on your behalf or give you his email. However at this time I don't want to speculate on things I don't honestly know and haven't done the research.

PS sorry it took me so long to respond :)

[Book]

Pure breeds are nothing but flaccid sinew...



:oo-->

[Quantum]

Deuteronomy 23:2 sums it up perfectly

A bastard (mixed race) shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.


It's funny how these devil-directed fools call us "neo-Nazis." God's standards are infinitely higher than Hitler's. Hitler let mixed-race folk into his "congregation" at 1/4th or less.

God requires less than 1/1024th racial impurity!!

[StackerKen]

2 Peter 2:5
And God did not spare the ancient world--except for Noah and the seven others in his family. Noah warned the world of God's righteous judgment. So God protected Noah when he destroyed the world of ungodly people with a vast flood.




Apparently, God does not consider pre-Adamites as "people," or else He'd have said more survived on the Ark.



Sorry, thats weak

Is that all you have?

[StackerKen]

2 Peter 2:5
And God did not spare the ancient world--except for Noah and the seven others in his family. Noah warned the world of God's righteous judgment. So God protected Noah when he destroyed the world of ungodly people with a vast flood.




Apparently, God does not consider pre-Adamites as "people," or else He'd have said more survived on the Ark.



Sorry, thats weak

Is that all you have?



Im just asking for Bible passages that will show me these "pre-Adamites" existed

[Horn]

Deuteronomy 17:17 Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.

[StackerKen]

Horn my friend...you realize that particular passage is speaking about what A king should not do....Right?

[Horn]

Horn my friend...you realize that particular passage is speaking about what A king should not do....Right?


Kings? what kings?

[StackerKen]

Horn my friend...you realize that particular passage is speaking about what A king should not do....Right?


Kings? what kings?


http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+17&version=NIV

[Horn]

James 5:3 Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.

[StackerKen]

James 5:3 Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.


Horn that one is speaking to rich people :)

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+5&version=NIV

[Occamsrazor]

I think people need to believe the Truth in order to be redeemed yes.


Caution: it's important to promote the Truth, but not be unnecessarily exclusive.

If Ken truly believes in Jesus Christ as his king and savior, then he is redeemed. He can believe errors and still retain salvation. The Word (Christ Himself) is the master and only key; doctrine is merely a quest to be engaged in according to the greatest commandment (love God with all one's heart, mind, and soul).


I won't argue. I don't know Ken personally but he comes off as one of the nicest people on the board, I enjoy his posts and his upbeat attitude is certainly a valuable addition to the forum.

I do think it is important to have a yearning to know the Truth regardless if that makes you a "racist, or bigot" in peoples eyes. Christians talk about persecution and I think few know what it means.

Look at Paul he certainly was steeped in judaism however he saw the Truth and was converted. So I do think it is important to be open to the Truth.



About Paul,Christ and Christians:
http://www.ety.com/HRP/leaflts/ravage/ravage1.htm

Voltaire said Christianity was a religion suitable for servants and chambermaids and that only a complete scoundrel could be a Christian in his time.

[greenbear]

The Christian gospel is the good news that Christ died for the sins of all men and rose again. Christian Identity seems to preach another gospel- that they and they alone are saved solely by virtue of their pure race.

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

The British Israel belief is a true theology or religious belief, in some quarters having well-developed religious concepts. British Israel, like the Christian Identity movement, denies the role of Jesus Christ in providing forgiveness of sins through his substitutionary atonement through his death on the cross, and asserts instead an elaborate set of beliefs based purely on racial identity alone. In this theology, those who are the Lost Tribe(s) of Israel enjoy God's favor simply on account of their race -- usually equated with being of the White race -- and will go to heaven because of their racial identity alone. In their view, other races and people groups do not and can never obtain God's favor because they are not Israelites, and are doomed to hell on account of their racial identity.


http://www.search.com/reference/British_Israelism#Genetic_Testing_and_DNA_Evidence

[greenbear]

The British Israel theology depends upon a direct genetic link of Britons with ancient Israel in the Middle East. However, modern DNA studies on the Y-Chromosome of Jews worldwide such as the Human Genome Project have determined that modern Jews share common semitic (Middle Eastern) origins dating back to a common genetic source 3000 years ago in the Middle East, presumably Israel, but that Europeans and particularly Britons share no such genetic connection to ancient Israel. While Jews are genetically tied to the region of Israel, they are sharply divergent genetically from Britons and other Europeans. Thus, on a genetic level from DNA analyses of the populations there appears to be no link between Britons and the Middle East or ancient Israel.

A study published by the National Academy of Sciences found that "The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora." [3]

Modern Jews of the priesthood tribe -- or "Cohanim" -- share a common ancestor in Israel dating back approximately 3000 years, 1700 years older than the Khazar conversion to Judaism. This result is consistent for all Jewish populations no matter where they are found around the world. [19] [4]

"The results accord with Jewish history and tradition and refute theories like those holding that Jewish communities consist mostly of converts from other faiths, or that they are descended from the Khazars, a medieval Turkish tribe that adopted Judaism." [5] [20]

Moreover, "The analysis provides genetic witness that these communities have, to a remarkable extent, retained their biological identity separate from their host populations, evidence of relatively little intermarriage or conversion into Judaism over the centuries." Id. And "Another finding, paradoxical but unsurprising, is that by the yardstick of the Y chromosome, the world's Jewish communities closely resemble not only each other but also Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese, suggesting that all are descended from a common ancestral population that inhabited the Middle East some four thousand years ago. Id. (Emphasis added.)

http://www.search.com/reference/British_Israelism#Genetic_Testing_and_DNA_Evidence

[greenbear]

http://truthseeker2473.blogspot.com/2009/04/have-all-bases-covered-part-2.html

British Israelism Refuted



The following will prove that the Lost Tribes of Israel aren't British at all. It's based on myth, legend, and superstition. British Israelism is a belief that all of the Lost Tribes of Israel migrated from Asia to Europe to become the Anglo-Saxons and they view themselves as the “chosen race” of God, which is a lie. They view themselves as true Israelites. This story revolves around how some (not all) of the tribes of Israel were carried away as captives by the Assyrians in 722 B.C. The British Israelite proponents also believe that America and Britian are apart of the Lost Tribes of Israel as well (predominatly of the tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh). Most proponents of British Israelism ideas aren’t racists. Yet, some of its proponents are racists. They include the Identity crowd who are anti-Semitic and some of them are Neo-Nazis. This crowd promotes Aryan racial superiority. The Christian Identity views are similar to Nazis in terms of ideology. The difference is that they disagree on who the master race is. British Israelism teaches the lie that olive to dark skinned Semitic Hebrews transformed over night into lighter skinned Celts and Anglo-Saxons (including Nordic peoples), which is a lie. Willie Martin is a famous racist Christian Identity member. The lie that Jewish people are related to Cain or from the Turkish Khazars have origin from the Gnostic texts as well. One Catholic scholar, writing on the ancient Gnostics, writes:

“The doctrine that Cain was the child of Satan and Eve is found in the ancient Gnostic text The Revelation of Adam, where Adam says to his son Seth: ‘Next, darkness came over our eyes. Next, the god that made us made a child (begotten) by himself (and) Eve your mother¼.’” (The Gnostic Scriptures, p.56)

The problem with this argument is that Ashkenazi Jewish people existed in Germany long before the Khazars were in prominence at all. The Khazar Empire didn't even exist in parts of Eastern Europe. That document of “The Encyclopedia Britannica,“ Ninth Edition, 1903, Volume XIV, pp. 59-60 outline an accurate protrayal of the Khazars. The Khazars would trade with the Byzantium Empire. The Khazars existed from 190 A.D. to 1100 A.D. They reached their peak from 600-950 A.D. They existed from the Caucasus Mountains. One of their capitals was Itil. The Encyclopedia said that there were lighter skinned (or Ak-Khazars) and darker skinned (or Kara-Khazars) Khazars. One ruling dynasty in ca. 740 adopted Judaism for political and commercial reasons (the Jewish people inspired on their kings named Bulan to convert), yet no evidence existed that the majority of the Khazarian people adopted the Jewish religion at all. Rabbi Bernard Rosensweig was one of the leading figures in debunking the Khazar theory of Ashkenazi Jewish origins. Writing in Tradition (16:5, Fall 1977, pages 139-162), he dismissed it as "wobbly scholarly foundations without historical support." Likewise, the Swedish archaeologist Bozena Werbart, an expert on the Khazars, wrote: "In the Khazar kingdom, Koestler wanted to see the origin of the eastern European Jewry. Nevertheless, all the historical and linguistic facts contradicted his theories."

The Khazar being Jews living in Israel lie is going to be refuted now. The Khazars are Turkish tribes (with links to Ugrian peoples) who were phallic worshippers. Their Kings converted to Judaism to trade more efficiently between Christian and Muslim peoples in the Caucasus region. This area where the Khazars lived was between the Black and Caspian Sea. Later, the Khazars were mostly gone by intermarriage with Europeans. Arthur claims that the Ashkenazi tribes are related to the Khazars completely and therefore are false Jewish people.

Some Freemasons and the Masonic Orange Order accept British Israelism. According to Professor E. Oldum, MA, BSc., the Orange Order taught that Europeans were the blood descended child of Abraham. Many British-Israel supporters though are working with leaders to try to create a New World Order. One example is that British Israelite proponent & occultist John Dee centuries ago wanted to create a new world order with the British Empire being global. Dee popularized the concept of "Brittania" or the British Empire.

Even the leadership of Herbert W. Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God discarded British Israelism as unbiblical. The Anglo-Saxons being Jewish people is a lie for tons of reasons. Anglo-Saxons never were circumcised in ancient times, so they aren’t related to God’s natural blessing given to the Hebrews in Genesis 17:14. The Anglo-Saxons have mingled with many other people (like the Normans, Celts, etc.) and they haven’t tried to keep separate as the Jewish people have. The Lost Tribes of Israel have spread into Africa (i.e. Lemba), Asia (i.e. India, Central Asia, China, Japan), and Europe (i.e. Sephardim, Ashkenazi, etc.). So, the Anglo-Saxons can never be the totality of all of the tribes of Israel at all [if they are truly related to Isreal, which they are not]. The ancient Hebrews had no blond hair and blue eyes originally as many Anglo-Saxons had during even the early Medieval period. The ancient Hebrews came from Egypt to Israel after the Exodus. At a bare minimum, they had an olive to dark skin complexetion being Semitic as seen in archaeological images. Anglo-Saxons are related genetically and linguistically to the Indo-Europeans from Central Asia. The Israeli Captivity was done first by the Assyrians. Usually, the Assyrian rulers did not take into captivity the common people, but only the ruling class and the notables and those who were skilled in sciences, artists, craftsmen and warriors, in order to appoint them to serve the Empire. Indeed, King SargonII, who actually completed the siege of Samaria after the death of Shalmaneser V, declared that he deported only 27,290 people from Israel (according to the inscription found at Khorsabad, his capital). There are overwhelming scriptural, archaeological and historical proofs that the Northern Israelites sent to exile by the Assyrians were not the whole population, and not even most of them. It is also clear that among those who returned back to the Land of Israel all the twelve Tribes were present. Those of the Northern Tribes may have been the descent of those already dwelling in Judah before the deportation to Babylon, but they may have been also among the exiles of the Kingdom of Samaria. They were the Jews mentioned by Ezra, their descendants were the Jews of the Roman times and are Jews today.

British Israelites falsely believe that the tribes from the Kingdom of Israel never returned back into Israel after the Assyrian captivity as did Judah and Benjamin did after the 70 years of captivity in Babylon. The Kingdom of Israel is made up of 10 tribes. Some of them believe that the Jewish people are under a curse for rejecting the Messiah (which is false since Jesus ended the curse of the Law). The modern theory of British Israelism existed in the 1500's. British Israelists believe that the kingly line of Judah (Genesis 49:10) reached Britain when a daughter of Zedekiah, the last king of Judah before the fall of Jerusalem,
arrived with Jeremiah in 569 B.C. This princess, Tea-Tephi, married the king of Ireland, who also happened to be a descendant of Judah through Zarah, Judah's younger son (Genesis 38:30). So, both branches of the kingly line were established as the Royal House of Ireland according to them. This kingdom was transferred to Scotland and then to England with James I (James VI of Scotland) in 1603. British Israelites believe that Queen Elizabeth II of Great Britian, therefore is a direct descendant of King David and recipient of his throne. They believe that the pillar stone of Jacob resides today in the royal cornonation chair of Great Britian in Westminster Abbey.

Here's a refutation of this. The stone of scone is not a true pillar stone of Israel at all. God strictly forbade the use of hewn stone in altars as found in Exodus 20:5. Secondly, however, Professor A.C. Ramsey of the Geology Department of London University inspected the stone and identified it as red sandstone, probably of Scottish origin. The nearest red sandstone to Bethel, where Jacob found his stone is in Petra,( nearly one hundred miles to the south). The stone which was around Bethel where Jacob slept is white limestone. The scriptures know nothing of this fake event of a stone traveling from Israel to the British Isles via Egypt. The Bible is clear that the true cornerstone is Jesus Christ not a stone in the UK. There is no need to make a false stone at all. Also, Israel, Jews, and Hebrews have been interchangeable throughout the Scriptures. Genesis 12 outline Abraham as the ancestor of the Hebrews. Israel was connected to Abraham's grandson by the name of Jacob (Genesis 32:28). The term of "Judah" was used in relation to one of Jacob's sons (Genesis 29:35) and Judah was still part of "Israel" Genesis 49:28 says that: "All these are the twelve tribes of Israel." Also, in the dispersal of the Jews into Babylon, they maintained their unique national identity. Also, America and the USA are more hetereogenoeous than many nations in the world. Therefore they are not fully related to Ephraim and Manasseh at all. Did the dispersal of the "ten lost tribes" disorient them enough to start writing to left to right instead of right to left as was done for centuries (by the ancient Hebrews)? The answer is no. The Bible says that Abraham's covenant is extended unto Jews and Gentiles (i.e. it isn't limited to Anglo-Saxons):

Galatians 3:27-29 says, "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise."




Under the King Cyrus of Iran, Israelites were allowed to return back to their homeland as a fulfillment of Bible propehcy. There in Jerusalem, the Temple was rebuilt by the Hebrews. The return is recorded by Ezra and Nehemyah, and the twelve Tribes are present:

"Then the children of Yisrael, the Kohanim and the Levites, and the rest of the sons of the captivity, kept the dedication of this House with joy, and offered ... as a sin offering for all Yisrael twelve male goats, according to the number of the Tribes of Yisrael". (Ezra 6:16,17)

"The sons of the exile, who had come from the captivity, brought burnt offerings to the Elohim of Yisrael: twelve bulls for all Yisrael,... and twelve male goats as a sin offering". (Ezra 8:35)



These returning people were both Jews and Israelites. They are the ancestors of modern Jewish people. Really the tribes aren’t lost since the OT and NT mentioned the tribes of Asher, Benjamin, etc. found in Luke 2:36, Acts 1:39, Ezra 10:5, Nehemiah 12:47, Nehemiah 11:34, and the smoking gun of Ezra 7:13 proving that God never lost Israel since he knew them to this day. The Apostle Paul called himself a Hebrew (in Phil. 3:5), an Israelite (in 2 Cor. 11:22), and a Jew (in Acts 21:39, 22:3). All of these terms are interchangeable. Anglo-Saxons write from left to right, but Israel wrote from right to left with no evidence of Hebrews changing their method of writing at all. Most creditable historians and records like Encyclopedia Britannica don’t view Anglo-Saxons as Semitic. Even the Britain nation embrace New Age belief in many circles, plus its old empire had a conglomeration of false faiths like Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Atheism, and Roman Catholicism. British Israelists claim that Ephraim and Manasseh went to America, but America is the most diverse nation on the face of the Earth. The King of David’s throne is the Lord Jesus Christ, not the British Monarch as British Israelism believes. One of the most common claims of British Israelism is that the word British comes from b’rith ish meaning “man of the covenant” according to them, which is false. This is false for the correct Hebrew phrase for the “man of the covenant” is ish bah’rith. From their reasoning, Britain comes from b’rith ‘ayin meaning “without a covenant.” The British nation as history and scholars like Arthur Custance‘s “Noah’s Three Sons” and William Cooper’s “After the Flood,” detail outline that the Indo-European British people (which includes the Celts, Saxons, Angles, Normans, etc.) are descended from Japheth not Shem. Semitic Jewish and Arabic peoples descend from Shem:

“…Michael Hammer at the University of Arizona in Tucson and colleagues, some from Israeli universities, analysed 18 sections of the Y chromosomes from 1,371 men. They came from 29 different populations, including seven Jewish (Ashkenazi (European), Roman, North African, Kurdish, Iraqi and Iranian, Yemenite and Ethiopian Jews), five Arabic (Palestinians, Lebanese, Syrians, Israeli Druze and Saudis) and 16 non-Semitic groups.2The close similarities within the Jewish Y-chromosomes, even from widely scattered populations, was compelling evidence that they all come from a common ancestor. The study also showed that Arabs are closely related to Jews.Dr Harry Ostrer, director of the Human Genetics Program at New York University School of Medicine, one of the co-authors of the paper,2 said: ‘Jews and Arabs are all really children of Abraham … And all have preserved their Middle Eastern genetic roots over 4,000 years.’3The study also showed that the Jewish populations had generally remained genetically isolated from gentile populations all this time. It is further evidence that modern Jews largely kept the Old Testament laws (albeit with extra man-made traditions) for centuries after they were dispersed, until quite recently. This is consistent with an earlier study by a team involving Dr Hammer, on the Cohanim (Hebrew plural of Cohen) from both Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews; from Israel, the UK and the USA. They analyzed their Y chromosomes for the presence or absence of the Y alu polymorphic (YAP) insert, and they concluded that the evidence is consistent with the common descent of all Cohanim/Cohens from a common ancestor at a time consistent with the biblical chronology, well before the division into Ashkenazic and Sephardic communities.4,5” (From ..www.answersingenesis.org/...-2000.asp).

Modern Jewish people have clear signs from their ancestors. There are peoples that keep many features and have enough historical background to claim Israelite ancestry, mainly in Asia and Africa, and some of them are being recognized by the State of Israel. These peoples have spiritual and cultural features, history and traditions that allow to perform a scientific research in order to acknowledge their origins. Yet, the Nordic and Western Europeans don't have any historical or genetic link to Semites directly at all. Now, Isrealites are Semitic peopels like Assyrians. Europeans are Japhetic peopels or Indo Europeans. The Indo European Cimmerians leave no written record of themselves, while the ancient Hebrews do. The Cimmerians are red haired as said by the Assyrians, but the Israelites have olive to drak complexion as most Semites are then and now. Indo-Europeans and Anglo-Saxons had prostitutions, clans, and child sacrifice, which the Hebrew culture forbade. Definitively, the alleged transformation of the Israelites into Cimmerians is completely contrary to Scriptures, history, genetics and mental health, being a conception of somebody suffering of irreversible insanity. The Cimmerians are ancestors of the Celts, who lived in Spanish, France (or Gaul), and Britian. The Aryans believed in the transmigration of souls, which is against Torah tradition. The Celts were present in Europe since early times: in the late Bronze Age around the year 1200 B.C. they were in the area of present-day Germany, and settled in the British Isles around the 9th century B.C.. There is no need to explain that in those times the Israelites were dwelling in Kanaan, not in exile. Therefore, the chronology once again absolutely disavows Brit-Am's (or British Israelism's) theories.

Some point to Tautha de Danann as related to the tribe of Dan, but the official chronology of Tuatha existed before Dan was born (if the chronology ever existed). Danaan relates to Aryan tribes. Numerous Anglo-Saxon and Irish genealogies trace their origin to Magog (in the Milesian one) not to Dan. Magog in traditions were an ancestor of the Scythians and the Irish peooples according to British scholars. Irish legends don't say a word about Jeremiah. As for Prophet Jeremiah, the Scriptures say that he was carried by the Jews to Egypt, and other ancient sources (like Elmakin, Epiphanius, Abulpharagius, Jerome, Tertullian, etc.) say that Jeremiah died in Egypt. There are some Irish legends that speak about a group of Egyptians, including a descendant of the Pharaoh, that landed in Ireland (These events are many centuries before both David and Jeremiah were born, perhaps before Mosheh also). The ancient Irish were pagans and worshipped the sun, not the Holy One of Israel. The Scythians and Celts used imprinting marks throughout their bodies. This practice is forbidden in the Torah. The Scythians obviously had not the slightest knowledge about Mosaic rules, neither practised circumcision, nor kept Shabath or kashrut, nor any other Israelite custom. Even for the Ark of the Covenant, Jeremiah says that: "...they shall say no more: The Ark of the Covenant of Adonay; neither shall it come to mind; nor shall they remember it; nor shall they visit it; nor shall that be made again" (Yirmeyahu 3:16). When you look at the Queen's line, it is Germanic not Jewish at all. The British Monarchy is related to the Hannover-Saxe-Coburg-Gotha Germanic line. Elizabeth II married Philip, who is of the royal house of Greece and Germany. Now, many of these Kings are related to ancient Greece, ancient Rome, and ancient Egyptian leaders. Some of these Windsor Royals have Tuetonic blood and not directly related to Hebrews at all.

In Ezekiel 37:15-28 God promises that He will unite all twelve tribes in the last days as part of His Covenant of Peace with them. Therefore, there is no such thing as Lost Tribes in God's eyes at all. Race hatred is totally unbiblical since God create human beings in great diversity. The reason is that God loves diversity or variety in life. Racism is not only not of God, because it is a sin to hate your fellow man by virture of his skin color or race. Racism is a key part of the new world order agenda that is promoted by the same elitists (with ties to the Skulls and Bones, social Darwinianists, eugenicists, and those who funded the Nazi Empire decades ago) who would you least expect would be racist. This is why Freemason C. William Smith and others want a new order of the ages where so-called "Aryans" would reign supreme in the new world order. This is similar to the Nazis' agenda of allowing the "Aryans" to rule the world. .

One essence of British Israelism is the embrace of false, long genealogies (which are found in legends). I Timothy 1:4 says clearly that: " ... take no heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in the faith." (Col 3:11-13)

[madfranks]

I've read this whole thread and it's very interesting to me. I've always been intrigued by CI, but never got around to any serious in-depth study. Nordic, you seem to be pretty knowledgeable about it, can I ask you a question? From the CI perspective, why did God send Jonah to minister and call to repentance the Ninevites? I always understood this as an example that God was concerned with the salvation of all peoples, not just the Israelites.


Hey madfranks to be honest I am relatively knew to CI time wise although I listen to 3+ hours per day of sermons so I'm learning a lot so far. Although I am by no means an expert in the field. Which is sad because even though I feel like I have little knowledge on the subject it is no trouble to win debates with people who apparently consider themselves experts, which of course is the benefit of having the Truth on your side.

I had and still have a lot of questions myself and I've found that usually they are answered in a later sermon, if not I have written Pastor Eli James to ask his opinion on various subjects. I can write Eli on your behalf or give you his email. However at this time I don't want to speculate on things I don't honestly know and haven't done the research.

PS sorry it took me so long to respond :)


Thanks - I think I'm going to do some research of my own. If I find anything interesting about this I'll let you know. :)

[LuckyStrike]

If CI is a lie then you will have no trouble refuting the following.

http://gold-silver.us/forum/religion-and-philosophy/50-bible-reasons-why-the-jews-are-not-israel/


I eagerly await your refutation of those verses. And heck to speed things up the author even has 1000 dollars up for grabs if you can disprove it! :o


Allow me to follow up this challenge with a prediction.

You either ignore it completely as EVERYONE has done so far. Or you come back with personal attacks against me and CI in general.



OK now that you have responded do I win a prize for a spot on prediction?

YOU as in greenbear have never in this entire thread taken a comment that I have made and disproven it through scripture.

Rather you type in CI to google, find the first anti CI link that pops up and post it here which is about the laziest lowest form of argument possible. Which I assume is why you called in your husband because clearly you aren't having much success here.



Maybe I wasn't clear enough earlier. I want YOU to prove, using scripture and or historical and archaeological data that I (not anyone who has ever claimed to be CI) but ME is wrong for anything I have asserted in this thread to be true.


In case we are still having communication problems let me attempt to clarify, you a judeo "christian" have a set of beliefs now john hagee is also a judeo "christian. So when you bring up a point that is YOUR opinion, I don't bring up articles about how much of an evil SOB hagee is. That would be retarded and not productive in the least.

For those that haven't seen it here is our john "jews are God's chosen" hagee who believes very similarly to greenbear and 50bagger

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0CyolAOeWQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0CyolAOeWQ

[7th trump]

http://truthseeker2473.blogspot.com/2009/04/have-all-bases-covered-part-2.html

British Israelism Refuted



The following will prove that the Lost Tribes of Israel aren't British at all. It's based on myth, legend, and superstition. British Israelism is a belief that all of the Lost Tribes of Israel migrated from Asia to Europe to become the Anglo-Saxons and they view themselves as the “chosen race” of God, which is a lie. They view themselves as true Israelites. This story revolves around how some (not all) of the tribes of Israel were carried away as captives by the Assyrians in 722 B.C. The British Israelite proponents also believe that America and Britian are apart of the Lost Tribes of Israel as well (predominatly of the tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh). Most proponents of British Israelism ideas aren’t racists. Yet, some of its proponents are racists. They include the Identity crowd who are anti-Semitic and some of them are Neo-Nazis. This crowd promotes Aryan racial superiority. The Christian Identity views are similar to Nazis in terms of ideology. The difference is that they disagree on who the master race is. British Israelism teaches the lie that olive to dark skinned Semitic Hebrews transformed over night into lighter skinned Celts and Anglo-Saxons (including Nordic peoples), which is a lie. Willie Martin is a famous racist Christian Identity member. The lie that Jewish people are related to Cain or from the Turkish Khazars have origin from the Gnostic texts as well. One Catholic scholar, writing on the ancient Gnostics, writes:

“The doctrine that Cain was the child of Satan and Eve is found in the ancient Gnostic text The Revelation of Adam, where Adam says to his son Seth: ‘Next, darkness came over our eyes. Next, the god that made us made a child (begotten) by himself (and) Eve your mother¼.’” (The Gnostic Scriptures, p.56)

The problem with this argument is that Ashkenazi Jewish people existed in Germany long before the Khazars were in prominence at all. The Khazar Empire didn't even exist in parts of Eastern Europe. That document of “The Encyclopedia Britannica,“ Ninth Edition, 1903, Volume XIV, pp. 59-60 outline an accurate protrayal of the Khazars. The Khazars would trade with the Byzantium Empire. The Khazars existed from 190 A.D. to 1100 A.D. They reached their peak from 600-950 A.D. They existed from the Caucasus Mountains. One of their capitals was Itil. The Encyclopedia said that there were lighter skinned (or Ak-Khazars) and darker skinned (or Kara-Khazars) Khazars. One ruling dynasty in ca. 740 adopted Judaism for political and commercial reasons (the Jewish people inspired on their kings named Bulan to convert), yet no evidence existed that the majority of the Khazarian people adopted the Jewish religion at all. Rabbi Bernard Rosensweig was one of the leading figures in debunking the Khazar theory of Ashkenazi Jewish origins. Writing in Tradition (16:5, Fall 1977, pages 139-162), he dismissed it as "wobbly scholarly foundations without historical support." Likewise, the Swedish archaeologist Bozena Werbart, an expert on the Khazars, wrote: "In the Khazar kingdom, Koestler wanted to see the origin of the eastern European Jewry. Nevertheless, all the historical and linguistic facts contradicted his theories."

The Khazar being Jews living in Israel lie is going to be refuted now. The Khazars are Turkish tribes (with links to Ugrian peoples) who were phallic worshippers. Their Kings converted to Judaism to trade more efficiently between Christian and Muslim peoples in the Caucasus region. This area where the Khazars lived was between the Black and Caspian Sea. Later, the Khazars were mostly gone by intermarriage with Europeans. Arthur claims that the Ashkenazi tribes are related to the Khazars completely and therefore are false Jewish people.

Some Freemasons and the Masonic Orange Order accept British Israelism. According to Professor E. Oldum, MA, BSc., the Orange Order taught that Europeans were the blood descended child of Abraham. Many British-Israel supporters though are working with leaders to try to create a New World Order. One example is that British Israelite proponent & occultist John Dee centuries ago wanted to create a new world order with the British Empire being global. Dee popularized the concept of "Brittania" or the British Empire.

Even the leadership of Herbert W. Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God discarded British Israelism as unbiblical. The Anglo-Saxons being Jewish people is a lie for tons of reasons. Anglo-Saxons never were circumcised in ancient times, so they aren’t related to God’s natural blessing given to the Hebrews in Genesis 17:14. The Anglo-Saxons have mingled with many other people (like the Normans, Celts, etc.) and they haven’t tried to keep separate as the Jewish people have. The Lost Tribes of Israel have spread into Africa (i.e. Lemba), Asia (i.e. India, Central Asia, China, Japan), and Europe (i.e. Sephardim, Ashkenazi, etc.). So, the Anglo-Saxons can never be the totality of all of the tribes of Israel at all [if they are truly related to Isreal, which they are not]. The ancient Hebrews had no blond hair and blue eyes originally as many Anglo-Saxons had during even the early Medieval period. The ancient Hebrews came from Egypt to Israel after the Exodus. At a bare minimum, they had an olive to dark skin complexetion being Semitic as seen in archaeological images. Anglo-Saxons are related genetically and linguistically to the Indo-Europeans from Central Asia. The Israeli Captivity was done first by the Assyrians. Usually, the Assyrian rulers did not take into captivity the common people, but only the ruling class and the notables and those who were skilled in sciences, artists, craftsmen and warriors, in order to appoint them to serve the Empire. Indeed, King SargonII, who actually completed the siege of Samaria after the death of Shalmaneser V, declared that he deported only 27,290 people from Israel (according to the inscription found at Khorsabad, his capital). There are overwhelming scriptural, archaeological and historical proofs that the Northern Israelites sent to exile by the Assyrians were not the whole population, and not even most of them. It is also clear that among those who returned back to the Land of Israel all the twelve Tribes were present. Those of the Northern Tribes may have been the descent of those already dwelling in Judah before the deportation to Babylon, but they may have been also among the exiles of the Kingdom of Samaria. They were the Jews mentioned by Ezra, their descendants were the Jews of the Roman times and are Jews today.

British Israelites falsely believe that the tribes from the Kingdom of Israel never returned back into Israel after the Assyrian captivity as did Judah and Benjamin did after the 70 years of captivity in Babylon. The Kingdom of Israel is made up of 10 tribes. Some of them believe that the Jewish people are under a curse for rejecting the Messiah (which is false since Jesus ended the curse of the Law). The modern theory of British Israelism existed in the 1500's. British Israelists believe that the kingly line of Judah (Genesis 49:10) reached Britain when a daughter of Zedekiah, the last king of Judah before the fall of Jerusalem,
arrived with Jeremiah in 569 B.C. This princess, Tea-Tephi, married the king of Ireland, who also happened to be a descendant of Judah through Zarah, Judah's younger son (Genesis 38:30). So, both branches of the kingly line were established as the Royal House of Ireland according to them. This kingdom was transferred to Scotland and then to England with James I (James VI of Scotland) in 1603. British Israelites believe that Queen Elizabeth II of Great Britian, therefore is a direct descendant of King David and recipient of his throne. They believe that the pillar stone of Jacob resides today in the royal cornonation chair of Great Britian in Westminster Abbey.

Here's a refutation of this. The stone of scone is not a true pillar stone of Israel at all. God strictly forbade the use of hewn stone in altars as found in Exodus 20:5. Secondly, however, Professor A.C. Ramsey of the Geology Department of London University inspected the stone and identified it as red sandstone, probably of Scottish origin. The nearest red sandstone to Bethel, where Jacob found his stone is in Petra,( nearly one hundred miles to the south). The stone which was around Bethel where Jacob slept is white limestone. The scriptures know nothing of this fake event of a stone traveling from Israel to the British Isles via Egypt. The Bible is clear that the true cornerstone is Jesus Christ not a stone in the UK. There is no need to make a false stone at all. Also, Israel, Jews, and Hebrews have been interchangeable throughout the Scriptures. Genesis 12 outline Abraham as the ancestor of the Hebrews. Israel was connected to Abraham's grandson by the name of Jacob (Genesis 32:28). The term of "Judah" was used in relation to one of Jacob's sons (Genesis 29:35) and Judah was still part of "Israel" Genesis 49:28 says that: "All these are the twelve tribes of Israel." Also, in the dispersal of the Jews into Babylon, they maintained their unique national identity. Also, America and the USA are more hetereogenoeous than many nations in the world. Therefore they are not fully related to Ephraim and Manasseh at all. Did the dispersal of the "ten lost tribes" disorient them enough to start writing to left to right instead of right to left as was done for centuries (by the ancient Hebrews)? The answer is no. The Bible says that Abraham's covenant is extended unto Jews and Gentiles (i.e. it isn't limited to Anglo-Saxons):

Galatians 3:27-29 says, "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise."




Under the King Cyrus of Iran, Israelites were allowed to return back to their homeland as a fulfillment of Bible propehcy. There in Jerusalem, the Temple was rebuilt by the Hebrews. The return is recorded by Ezra and Nehemyah, and the twelve Tribes are present:

"Then the children of Yisrael, the Kohanim and the Levites, and the rest of the sons of the captivity, kept the dedication of this House with joy, and offered ... as a sin offering for all Yisrael twelve male goats, according to the number of the Tribes of Yisrael". (Ezra 6:16,17)

"The sons of the exile, who had come from the captivity, brought burnt offerings to the Elohim of Yisrael: twelve bulls for all Yisrael,... and twelve male goats as a sin offering". (Ezra 8:35)



These returning people were both Jews and Israelites. They are the ancestors of modern Jewish people. Really the tribes aren’t lost since the OT and NT mentioned the tribes of Asher, Benjamin, etc. found in Luke 2:36, Acts 1:39, Ezra 10:5, Nehemiah 12:47, Nehemiah 11:34, and the smoking gun of Ezra 7:13 proving that God never lost Israel since he knew them to this day. The Apostle Paul called himself a Hebrew (in Phil. 3:5), an Israelite (in 2 Cor. 11:22), and a Jew (in Acts 21:39, 22:3). All of these terms are interchangeable. Anglo-Saxons write from left to right, but Israel wrote from right to left with no evidence of Hebrews changing their method of writing at all. Most creditable historians and records like Encyclopedia Britannica don’t view Anglo-Saxons as Semitic. Even the Britain nation embrace New Age belief in many circles, plus its old empire had a conglomeration of false faiths like Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Atheism, and Roman Catholicism. British Israelists claim that Ephraim and Manasseh went to America, but America is the most diverse nation on the face of the Earth. The King of David’s throne is the Lord Jesus Christ, not the British Monarch as British Israelism believes. One of the most common claims of British Israelism is that the word British comes from b’rith ish meaning “man of the covenant” according to them, which is false. This is false for the correct Hebrew phrase for the “man of the covenant” is ish bah’rith. From their reasoning, Britain comes from b’rith ‘ayin meaning “without a covenant.” The British nation as history and scholars like Arthur Custance‘s “Noah’s Three Sons” and William Cooper’s “After the Flood,” detail outline that the Indo-European British people (which includes the Celts, Saxons, Angles, Normans, etc.) are descended from Japheth not Shem. Semitic Jewish and Arabic peoples descend from Shem:

“…Michael Hammer at the University of Arizona in Tucson and colleagues, some from Israeli universities, analysed 18 sections of the Y chromosomes from 1,371 men. They came from 29 different populations, including seven Jewish (Ashkenazi (European), Roman, North African, Kurdish, Iraqi and Iranian, Yemenite and Ethiopian Jews), five Arabic (Palestinians, Lebanese, Syrians, Israeli Druze and Saudis) and 16 non-Semitic groups.2The close similarities within the Jewish Y-chromosomes, even from widely scattered populations, was compelling evidence that they all come from a common ancestor. The study also showed that Arabs are closely related to Jews.Dr Harry Ostrer, director of the Human Genetics Program at New York University School of Medicine, one of the co-authors of the paper,2 said: ‘Jews and Arabs are all really children of Abraham … And all have preserved their Middle Eastern genetic roots over 4,000 years.’3The study also showed that the Jewish populations had generally remained genetically isolated from gentile populations all this time. It is further evidence that modern Jews largely kept the Old Testament laws (albeit with extra man-made traditions) for centuries after they were dispersed, until quite recently. This is consistent with an earlier study by a team involving Dr Hammer, on the Cohanim (Hebrew plural of Cohen) from both Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews; from Israel, the UK and the USA. They analyzed their Y chromosomes for the presence or absence of the Y alu polymorphic (YAP) insert, and they concluded that the evidence is consistent with the common descent of all Cohanim/Cohens from a common ancestor at a time consistent with the biblical chronology, well before the division into Ashkenazic and Sephardic communities.4,5” (From ..www.answersingenesis.org/...-2000.asp).

Modern Jewish people have clear signs from their ancestors. There are peoples that keep many features and have enough historical background to claim Israelite ancestry, mainly in Asia and Africa, and some of them are being recognized by the State of Israel. These peoples have spiritual and cultural features, history and traditions that allow to perform a scientific research in order to acknowledge their origins. Yet, the Nordic and Western Europeans don't have any historical or genetic link to Semites directly at all. Now, Isrealites are Semitic peopels like Assyrians. Europeans are Japhetic peopels or Indo Europeans. The Indo European Cimmerians leave no written record of themselves, while the ancient Hebrews do. The Cimmerians are red haired as said by the Assyrians, but the Israelites have olive to drak complexion as most Semites are then and now. Indo-Europeans and Anglo-Saxons had prostitutions, clans, and child sacrifice, which the Hebrew culture forbade. Definitively, the alleged transformation of the Israelites into Cimmerians is completely contrary to Scriptures, history, genetics and mental health, being a conception of somebody suffering of irreversible insanity. The Cimmerians are ancestors of the Celts, who lived in Spanish, France (or Gaul), and Britian. The Aryans believed in the transmigration of souls, which is against Torah tradition. The Celts were present in Europe since early times: in the late Bronze Age around the year 1200 B.C. they were in the area of present-day Germany, and settled in the British Isles around the 9th century B.C.. There is no need to explain that in those times the Israelites were dwelling in Kanaan, not in exile. Therefore, the chronology once again absolutely disavows Brit-Am's (or British Israelism's) theories.

Some point to Tautha de Danann as related to the tribe of Dan, but the official chronology of Tuatha existed before Dan was born (if the chronology ever existed). Danaan relates to Aryan tribes. Numerous Anglo-Saxon and Irish genealogies trace their origin to Magog (in the Milesian one) not to Dan. Magog in traditions were an ancestor of the Scythians and the Irish peooples according to British scholars. Irish legends don't say a word about Jeremiah. As for Prophet Jeremiah, the Scriptures say that he was carried by the Jews to Egypt, and other ancient sources (like Elmakin, Epiphanius, Abulpharagius, Jerome, Tertullian, etc.) say that Jeremiah died in Egypt. There are some Irish legends that speak about a group of Egyptians, including a descendant of the Pharaoh, that landed in Ireland (These events are many centuries before both David and Jeremiah were born, perhaps before Mosheh also). The ancient Irish were pagans and worshipped the sun, not the Holy One of Israel. The Scythians and Celts used imprinting marks throughout their bodies. This practice is forbidden in the Torah. The Scythians obviously had not the slightest knowledge about Mosaic rules, neither practised circumcision, nor kept Shabath or kashrut, nor any other Israelite custom. Even for the Ark of the Covenant, Jeremiah says that: "...they shall say no more: The Ark of the Covenant of Adonay; neither shall it come to mind; nor shall they remember it; nor shall they visit it; nor shall that be made again" (Yirmeyahu 3:16). When you look at the Queen's line, it is Germanic not Jewish at all. The British Monarchy is related to the Hannover-Saxe-Coburg-Gotha Germanic line. Elizabeth II married Philip, who is of the royal house of Greece and Germany. Now, many of these Kings are related to ancient Greece, ancient Rome, and ancient Egyptian leaders. Some of these Windsor Royals have Tuetonic blood and not directly related to Hebrews at all.

In Ezekiel 37:15-28 God promises that He will unite all twelve tribes in the last days as part of His Covenant of Peace with them. Therefore, there is no such thing as Lost Tribes in God's eyes at all. Race hatred is totally unbiblical since God create human beings in great diversity. The reason is that God loves diversity or variety in life. Racism is not only not of God, because it is a sin to hate your fellow man by virture of his skin color or race. Racism is a key part of the new world order agenda that is promoted by the same elitists (with ties to the Skulls and Bones, social Darwinianists, eugenicists, and those who funded the Nazi Empire decades ago) who would you least expect would be racist. This is why Freemason C. William Smith and others want a new order of the ages where so-called "Aryans" would reign supreme in the new world order. This is similar to the Nazis' agenda of allowing the "Aryans" to rule the world. .

One essence of British Israelism is the embrace of false, long genealogies (which are found in legends). I Timothy 1:4 says clearly that: " ... take no heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in the faith." (Col 3:11-13)

Green look at the fruits of the white race. Look at all the blessings God bestowed on them.
Care to refute the evidence of technology. Where are the current so called jewish people of Isreal today getting their technology, their weapons, their medicine....................who are the innovative if it is not the white race?

[StackerKen]

Meanwhile ...

I am still waiting for someone to show me Bible passages that will show me these "pre-Adamites" existed

[madfranks]

Meanwhile ...

I am still waiting for someone to show me Bible passages that will show me these "pre-Adamites" existed




Ken,

I think some people interpret Jeremiah chapter 4 to illustrate the "pre-adamite" civilization on earth. Look here, this is Jeremiah's vision from the Lord:


23I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

24I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

25I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

26I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

27For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

I fully admit I don't know exactly what God is showing Jeremiah in this vision, but since He used the words "without form and void" to describe the earth, maybe he is having a vision of the earth when it was without form and void from Genesis 1? But there are cities that have been destroyed and there was no man. So who built these cities that were destroyed? It wasn't man, so maybe it was pre-adamites. Maybe it was Satan and the fallen angels. Like I said, I don't know one way or another, but it's an interesting vision.

[StackerKen]

Thanks Madfranks...Yes that is a very interesting passage there. :)

[7th trump]

Meanwhile ...

I am still waiting for someone to show me Bible passages that will show me these "pre-Adamites" existed




Ken,

I think some people interpret Jeremiah chapter 4 to illustrate the "pre-adamite" civilization on earth. Look here, this is Jeremiah's vision from the Lord:


23I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

24I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

25I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

26I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

27For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

I fully admit I don't know exactly what God is showing Jeremiah in this vision, but since He used the words "without form and void" to describe the earth, maybe he is having a vision of the earth when it was without form and void from Genesis 1? But there are cities that have been destroyed and there was no man. So who built these cities that were destroyed? It wasn't man, so maybe it was pre-adamites. Maybe it was Satan and the fallen angels. Like I said, I don't know one way or another, but it's an interesting vision.

MadFranks just found what I've been searching for for a very long time.
Ken this is the first earth age which God destroyed because it became void and without form. This is where we were in angelic bodies, not flesh. This is when lucifer rebelled and took 1/3 of his children to worship him. The other 1/3 that didnt worship lucifer didnt care about God or lucifer and the last 1/3 didnt didnt take the time out of their day for God. The first earth age was destroyed because it became void and without form for good reasons above. It became void from the view of God because nobody paid any attention t oGod any longer. We had free will then as we do know to do what we wanted t odo.
You've heard of the scripture of "nothing new under the sun" well this is why. We had cities and infrustructure, computers, flying machines, vehicles.......you name it its been of before.
Now instead of God destroying 1/3 of his children because of lucifer's attempt at the Mercy seat God destroyed the first earth age so that everyone has a chance to go through the bag of waters (born of woman).
As a new born the mind is blank of any traces of who you were in the first earth age. And as we get older we get to make up our minds of who we are going to love, satan or God. Everyone gets to make a decision and its our decision to make, free will. God doesnt really want to destroy anybody Ken. But with free will He will know who's the bad apples from the good apples, sheep from the goats.
This is why God knew Cain and hated before putting Cain in the bag of waters to be born of flesh.
This is also why there are 144,000 Elect Ken. These 144,000 fought against lucifer in the first earth age at his attempt at the Mercy seat. God has them set aside, if you will, for a purpose, to witness against satan when hes kicked to earth playing acting the Mercy seat, Jesus Christ.

[StackerKen]

wow 7th...
I don't know what to say...You really think there were cities and infrustructure, computers, flying machines, vehicles in this "1st earth age"?

I guess its possible


But some what you said there sounds like "reincarnation" ?

I think the bible says Man only lives once (or dies once)

[7th trump]

Hey, it wasnt me Ken that said there is nothing new under the sun................................that was God saying that and Jeremiah Ch 4:23-27 confirms it.
As far as flying machines goes..................yes Ken. Ever read Ezekiel? Just what do you think Ezekiel saw that he described was the color of Amber (highly polished Bronze) with round windows with faces inside and flew?
In this vehicle was God and his throne.
And yes, man (flesh, the clay pot) lives only once in the flesh. We all get a chance one time to make up our decision of who we are going to follow in this earth age. This is why its important to not get fooled into beleiving that satan is Jesus Christ.
When you die (the clay pot breaks) you instantly go back to the lord. You are in your same spititual body you were before you went into the bag of waters to be born of woman.

[madfranks]

MadFranks just found what I've been searching for for a very long time.
Ken this is the first earth age which God destroyed because it became void and without form. This is where we were in angelic bodies, not flesh. This is when lucifer rebelled and took 1/3 of his children to worship him. The other 1/3 that didnt worship lucifer didnt care about God or lucifer and the last 1/3 didnt didnt take the time out of their day for God. The first earth age was destroyed because it became void and without form for good reasons above. It became void from the view of God because nobody paid any attention t oGod any longer. We had free will then as we do know to do what we wanted t odo.
You've heard of the scripture of "nothing new under the sun" well this is why. We had cities and infrustructure, computers, flying machines, vehicles.......you name it its been of before.
Now instead of God destroying 1/3 of his children because of lucifer's attempt at the Mercy seat God destroyed the first earth age so that everyone has a chance to go through the bag of waters (born of woman).
As a new born the mind is blank of any traces of who you were in the first earth age. And as we get older we get to make up our minds of who we are going to love, satan or God. Everyone gets to make a decision and its our decision to make, free will. God doesnt really want to destroy anybody Ken. But with free will He will know who's the bad apples from the good apples, sheep from the goats.
This is why God knew Cain and hated before putting Cain in the bag of waters to be born of flesh.
This is also why there are 144,000 Elect Ken. These 144,000 fought against lucifer in the first earth age at his attempt at the Mercy seat. God has them set aside, if you will, for a purpose, to witness against satan when hes kicked to earth playing acting the Mercy seat, Jesus Christ.


This is difficult stuff to discuss, but I don't think the Bible really supports those views. There is nowhere in the Bible that states that humans existed as spirits before we were humans. The account of the creation of man says that God breathed life into the body of dust, not that a spirit was called down from heaven to inhabit a body. 1 Corinthians 15:47 says that the first man is of the earth, the second man is of the spirit.

You may argue that Jeremiah 1:5 shows that Jeremiah pre-existed because God says "before you were born I knew you", but in the light of Romans 4:17 (God... calleth those things which be not as though they were) and the full context of Jeremiah chapter 1, I'm pretty sure that verse 5 is an illustration that God had a plan for Jeremiah and called him to be a prophet before he existed!

As far as Jeremiah chapter 4 and the earth being destroyed and made without form and void, I can see it going two ways. One it's talking about a future destruction of the earth, or two it's talking about Satan and his angels' kingdom on earth before the creation of man. We know that Satan had already fallen before creation of man (he was evil in the garden of Eden), and we know that angels have physical bodies (Abraham dines with Angels in Gen 18, and Hebrews 13:2 - Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.), so why not physical cities as well? Maybe the vision God showed Jeremiah was the destruction of Satan's physical kingdom on earth...?

[7th trump]

MadFranks just found what I've been searching for for a very long time.
Ken this is the first earth age which God destroyed because it became void and without form. This is where we were in angelic bodies, not flesh. This is when lucifer rebelled and took 1/3 of his children to worship him. The other 1/3 that didnt worship lucifer didnt care about God or lucifer and the last 1/3 didnt didnt take the time out of their day for God. The first earth age was destroyed because it became void and without form for good reasons above. It became void from the view of God because nobody paid any attention t oGod any longer. We had free will then as we do know to do what we wanted t odo.
You've heard of the scripture of "nothing new under the sun" well this is why. We had cities and infrustructure, computers, flying machines, vehicles.......you name it its been of before.
Now instead of God destroying 1/3 of his children because of lucifer's attempt at the Mercy seat God destroyed the first earth age so that everyone has a chance to go through the bag of waters (born of woman).
As a new born the mind is blank of any traces of who you were in the first earth age. And as we get older we get to make up our minds of who we are going to love, satan or God. Everyone gets to make a decision and its our decision to make, free will. God doesnt really want to destroy anybody Ken. But with free will He will know who's the bad apples from the good apples, sheep from the goats.
This is why God knew Cain and hated before putting Cain in the bag of waters to be born of flesh.
This is also why there are 144,000 Elect Ken. These 144,000 fought against lucifer in the first earth age at his attempt at the Mercy seat. God has them set aside, if you will, for a purpose, to witness against satan when hes kicked to earth playing acting the Mercy seat, Jesus Christ.


This is difficult stuff to discuss, but I don't think the Bible really supports those views ( thats totally your view. the Bible says other wise). There is nowhere in the Bible that states that humans existed as spirits ( humans are not spirits) before we were humans. The account of the creation of man ( the creation of the flesh body is man, not your spirit) says that God breathed life into the body of dust, not that a spirit was called down from heaven to inhabit a body. (yep you are called down into the flesh body the moment the egg is fertilized) 1 Corinthians 15:47 says that the first man is of the earth, the second man is of the spirit.
(But its still one man. The first is the flesh, the clay pot. The second is whats left when the clay pot breaks, the spirit. (stepping out of the flesh). Just what do you suppose you will be in when you die? This is what God intends to destroy by burning to ashes from within, the spirit or your intellectual self)

You may argue that Jeremiah 1:5 shows that Jeremiah pre-existed because God says "before you were born I knew you", but in the light of Romans 4:17 (God... calleth those things which be not as though they were) and the full context of Jeremiah chapter 1, I'm pretty sure that verse 5 is an illustration that God had a plan for Jeremiah and called him to be a prophet before he existed! ( before he was put into the flesh body God already had a plan just as much as he has a plan for those 144,000 who fought against satan at the overthrow in the first earth age)
(before he existed in the flesh. We all did)

As far as Jeremiah chapter 4 and the earth being destroyed and made without form and void, I can see it going two ways. One it's talking about a future destruction of the earth, or two it's talking about Satan and his angels' kingdom on earth before the creation of man. We know that Satan had already fallen before creation of man ( you can beleive this but not beleiving we were her before?)(he was evil in the garden of Eden), and we know that angels have physical bodies (Abraham dines with Angels in Gen 18, and Hebrews 13:2 - Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.), so why not physical cities as well? Maybe the vision God showed Jeremiah was the destruction of Satan's physical kingdom on earth...? ( satan never had a physical kingdom ever, so go reread what you read. satan revolted and ever since Micheal has him in chains until hes kicked to earth with the other bad angels of Noahs time. No kingdom ever existed for satan ever and hes going to be destroyed in the lake of fire at the Great White Throne Judgement)

[madfranks]

you are called down into the flesh body the moment the egg is fertilized


Can you give me a Bible verse to support this? I'm not trying to be difficult, I've read the entire Bible multiple times and don't recall ever seeing this concept.

[madfranks]

satan revolted and ever since Micheal has him in chains until hes kicked to earth with the other bad angels of Noahs time. No kingdom ever existed for satan ever and hes going to be destroyed in the lake of fire at the Great White Throne Judgement


Ever since? Read the book of Job, Satan wasn't bound in chains when he was challenging God over the righteousness of Job.

And of course Satan has a kingdom, what else was he offering to Jesus in Matthew 4:8-9 (Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.). Satan offered his kingdom to Jesus if He would worship him! If Satan didn't really have ownership of said kingdoms, then what temptation is there? If I offer to sell you the Brooklyn bridge, you're not going to be tempted because you know I don't own it.

[StackerKen]

this is one thread I don't mind derailing....lol
I think it needed it.

7th you said
satan revolted and ever since Micheal has him in chains until hes kicked to earth

Im not so sure Satan is in chains right now...

1 Peter 5:8 Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour


Job1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

[7th trump]

this is one thread I don't mind derailing....lol
I think it needed it.

7th you said
satan revolted and ever since Micheal has him in chains until hes kicked to earth

Im not so sure Satan is in chains right now...

1 Peter 5:8 Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour


Job1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

satan roams spiritualy to influence. I think it was Peter who sliced an ear off of a Roman soldier when they seized Jesus and Jesus said to Peter "get behind me satan". Care to explain how Peter magically changed into satan? Or satan magically changing into Peter? What happened to Peter if it was satan who sliced off the ear?
Wheres your faith?
satan doesnt come to Earth until Micheal kicks him to earth and thats not being born of flesh either.

[Quantum]

The Christian gospel is the good news that Christ died for the sins of <s>all men</s> and rose again.


Christ died for the sins of all "aw-dawm." To insist otherwise is to claim He died for all primates, or all mammals.




Christian Identity seems to preach another gospel- that they and they alone are saved solely by virtue of their pure race.


An absolute lie.

It is the Khazar "Jews" who claim to be saved by race.




will go to heaven because of their racial identity alone.


This is the teaching of Judaism, not Christian Identity.




In their view, other races and people groups do not and can never obtain God's favor because they are not Israelites, and are doomed to hell on account of their racial identity.


"Blessed is he, who has not made me a Goy."

The Babylonian Talmud

[Quantum]

However, modern DNA studies on the Y-Chromosome of Jews worldwide such as the Human Genome Project have determined that modern Jews share common semitic (Middle Eastern) origins dating back to a common genetic source 3000 years ago in the Middle East, presumably Israel


"the Human Genome Project...will help us understand human evolution..."

LOL

You support evolution!

These "studies" about Khazar "Jews" being Semitic are conducted by "scientists" who themselves are Talmud "Jews"!




A study published by the National Academy of Sciences found that "The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora."


This is clearly false, as known history refutes it.


[remainder of evolutionist garbage deleted]

[7th trump]

satan revolted and ever since Micheal has him in chains until hes kicked to earth with the other bad angels of Noahs time. No kingdom ever existed for satan ever and hes going to be destroyed in the lake of fire at the Great White Throne Judgement


Ever since? Read the book of Job, Satan wasn't bound in chains when he was challenging God over the righteousness of Job.

And of course Satan has a kingdom, what else was he offering to Jesus in Matthew 4:8-9 (Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.). Satan offered his kingdom to Jesus if He would worship him! If Satan didn't really have ownership of said kingdoms, then what temptation is there? If I offer to sell you the Brooklyn bridge, you're not going to be tempted because you know I don't own it.

Hahahaha.......... This was when Jesus was fasting. satan was tempting Jesus at his weakest. Jesus allowed this to show everyone that He was an overcomer to make an example for us.
Guess what Jesus didnt fall for it did He? Jesus knew satan is a liar and a deceiver.
Where does it say all the kingdoms of the world (earth) is satans? It doesnt say that does it? No it doesnt, it just says kingdoms of the world.
God created the earth not satan.

And you know what about this?
What was satan trying to get Jesus to do?
Worship satan.......................confirms that satan wants to be like God or Jesus.
Take your Concordence and look up "anti-christ". In the Greek "anti" means "instead of". This in no way implies the opposite of Jesus but an instead of Christ. An imposter play acting as Jesus Christ.

[7th trump]

The Christian gospel is the good news that Christ died for the sins of <s>all men</s> and rose again.


Christ died for the sins of all "aw-dawm." To insist otherwise is to claim He died for all primates, or all mammals.




Christian Identity seems to preach another gospel- that they and they alone are saved solely by virtue of their pure race.


An absolute lie.

It is the Khazar "Jews" who claim to be saved by race.




will go to heaven because of their racial identity alone.


This is the teaching of Judaism, not Christian Identity.




In their view, other races and people groups do not and can never obtain God's favor because they are not Israelites, and are doomed to hell on account of their racial identity.


"Blessed is he, who has not made me a Goy."

The Babylonian Talmud

You are going to have a hard time with greenbear she thinks she knows all. She's a hippacrit.

[Quantum]

olive to dark skinned Semitic Hebrews


Archaeological evidence demonstrates this is nonsense.

One example: Egyptian painting of a "Hebrew," with light skin and BLUE eyes.

http://sarabe3.tripod.com/images/image025.jpg





The Khazar being Jews living in Israel lie is going to be refuted now.


LOL

http://www.levantinecenter.org/files/images/invention-of-jewish-people.jpg

An honest reading of that tome, and the Khazars are really Jews myth is demolished forever.

[Quantum]

Meanwhile ...

I am still waiting for someone to show me Bible passages that will show me these "pre-Adamites" existed




You're not going to like this, Ken:

"And God said, Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind, cattle, and creeping things, and beasts of the earth after their kind: and it was so."

That includes what we now call pre-Adamites. Yes, the pre-Adamites were created on the animal day, the fifth day. Notice the delineation between "living creatures," and cattle, creeping things, and beasts of the earth.

[madfranks]

satan revolted and ever since Micheal has him in chains until hes kicked to earth with the other bad angels of Noahs time. No kingdom ever existed for satan ever and hes going to be destroyed in the lake of fire at the Great White Throne Judgement


Ever since? Read the book of Job, Satan wasn't bound in chains when he was challenging God over the righteousness of Job.

And of course Satan has a kingdom, what else was he offering to Jesus in Matthew 4:8-9 (Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.). Satan offered his kingdom to Jesus if He would worship him! If Satan didn't really have ownership of said kingdoms, then what temptation is there? If I offer to sell you the Brooklyn bridge, you're not going to be tempted because you know I don't own it.

Hahahaha.......... This was when Jesus was fasting. satan was tempting Jesus at his weakest. Jesus allowed this to show everyone that He was an overcomer to make an example for us.
Guess what Jesus didnt fall for it did He? Jesus knew satan is a liar and a deceiver.
Where does it say all the kingdoms of the world (earth) is satans? It doesnt say that does it? No it doesnt, it just says kingdoms of the world.
God created the earth not satan.

And you know what about this?
What was satan trying to get Jesus to do?
Worship satan.......................confirms that satan wants to be like God or Jesus.
Take your Concordence and look up "anti-christ". In the Greek "anti" means "instead of". This in no way implies the opposite of Jesus but an instead of Christ. An imposter play acting as Jesus Christ.


How could Satan give it away if he has no claim to it? What kind of temptation is it if Satan offers you the kingdoms of the world, but he doesn't actually have them to give? If you don't believe me, I will sell you ownership rights to any major city of your choice for $1. Are you tempted?

Also, Ephesians 6:12 - "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." Who are these rulers of the world?

So far, every one of your attempts to refute what I'm posting has been without scriptural support, while in every one of my posts to you I have shown you the scripture which reflects what I'm communicating. Don't give me your opinion, show me the scripture!

[greenbear]

In my opinion there is no reason to keep discussing Christian Identity with someone who isn't receptive, like I said earlier I don't hold it against them because I was very turned off by it when I first heard of it. The information is out there, and I've posted a link with thousands of hours worth of sermons which lay out exactly what CI is all about.

I have heard many testimonies of people who have come to CI and a major theme in most of them is the fact that they were appalled by it when they first heard about it, I even heard a guy today who said he researched it only to try and prove their claims wrong and was unable to.

The information I provided is readily available but to continue on with someone who just uses PC words like "racist, nazi, bigot" etc just gets boring and shows their lack of evidence to refute our claims.


The curtain has been pulled back to expose the belief structure behind the rabid anti-semitism and hate for non-whites of many of those on this forum who plaster every thread with their propaganda. British-Israelism is the basis of your belief system, and it has been soundly refuted in every quarter, in every way imaginable. The idea that white people are really Israel but they just forgot is laughable. There is zero evidence that whites are Israel and overwhelming evidence that the whites are not Israel. Only people who consent to be brainwashed as adults, or are brainwashed as children could possibly believe the bizarre doctrines Identity teaches. You people are shown for what you are regardless of your protestations of being God's chosen race who are being treated so insensitively by those who refuse to see your "truth".


You keep saying that it has been shown and act like it is without a doubt proven fact when you can't refute anything or are unwilling to. I have provided in great detail a link to the migrations of the 12 tribes of Israel which you also haven't refuted. Your only argument is that CI is "racist anti semitic blah blah blah" which I hate to inform you isn't an argument at all.

As I brought up earlier when Jesus said "my sheep hear my voice" meaning if you aren't his sheep you don't hear his voice, the Bible is written to for and about Israel nobody else, this dispensentionalist nonsense of the criminal (literally) Cyrus Scoffield is a joke. I say that to say that now that your husband admits he is race mixed then it perfectly explains why this message isn't for him.

Deuteronomy 23:2 sums it up perfectly

A bastard (mixed race) shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.


You have proved nothing! I have offered up proofs from scripture, science, and history to show that the white "race" is not Israel. You link a slide show from some man that makes unfounded, unproven claims that the white man is the so-called lost 10 tribes of Israel, not only without any proof whatsoever, but in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary from all quarters!

I don't see you responding yet about the DNA evidence refuting your claim that the white man is the "lost" ten tribes of Israel. Perhaps you are waiting on approved refutations from your Identity teacher that you rely upon, rather than the Bible. The Bible has never been successfully refuted by anybody. Archeology, Histrionics, every branch of science, confirms the veracity of the word of God. I've presented many arguments against your position and you ignore them all and pretend they don't exist because you cannot afford to acknowledge them. As you expressed earlier in the thread, it sure can be frustrating when other posters completely ignore the evidence presented.


You might want to actually read the Bible, over and over again, to find out what it says, rather than email your Identity teacher to tell you what it says. All I can say is LOL.
A bastard is one who is born of incest or adultery. Can you explain what that has to do with racial mixing?

[7th trump]

satan revolted and ever since Micheal has him in chains until hes kicked to earth with the other bad angels of Noahs time. No kingdom ever existed for satan ever and hes going to be destroyed in the lake of fire at the Great White Throne Judgement


Ever since? Read the book of Job, Satan wasn't bound in chains when he was challenging God over the righteousness of Job.

And of course Satan has a kingdom, what else was he offering to Jesus in Matthew 4:8-9 (Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.). Satan offered his kingdom to Jesus if He would worship him! If Satan didn't really have ownership of said kingdoms, then what temptation is there? If I offer to sell you the Brooklyn bridge, you're not going to be tempted because you know I don't own it.

Hahahaha.......... This was when Jesus was fasting. satan was tempting Jesus at his weakest. Jesus allowed this to show everyone that He was an overcomer to make an example for us.
Guess what Jesus didnt fall for it did He? Jesus knew satan is a liar and a deceiver.
Where does it say all the kingdoms of the world (earth) is satans? It doesnt say that does it? No it doesnt, it just says kingdoms of the world.
God created the earth not satan.

And you know what about this?
What was satan trying to get Jesus to do?
Worship satan.......................confirms that satan wants to be like God or Jesus.
Take your Concordence and look up "anti-christ". In the Greek "anti" means "instead of". This in no way implies the opposite of Jesus but an instead of Christ. An imposter play acting as Jesus Christ.


How could Satan give it away if he has no claim to it? (because he is a big liar and deceiver) What kind of temptation is it if Satan offers you the kingdoms of the world, but he doesn't actually have them to give? ( again satan is a big liar and deceiver. We all know God created the earth, not satan. Was Jesus tempted? No Jesus was not tempted at all, just like I'm not tempted at all with your offer of any citiy of my choice. Now while you are at it please tell the audience what Jesus say to satan after satan tried to tempt Jesus to worship satan?........come on tell us. Dont just stop half way through with it. Did not satan tell Jesus if he jumped off the mountain he could surely fly? (satans trying to murder Jesus during a fasting.)) If you don't believe me, I will sell you ownership rights to any major city of your choice for $1. Are you tempted? (again satan is big liar and deceiver. In Revelations when satan is kicked to earth Heaven is silent for an hour, but God warns us about the hour of temptation during that same hour.)


Also, Ephesians 6:12 - "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." Who are these rulers of the world? ( you just answered your question Madfranks its right here ............. against spiritual wickedness in high places." Who are..........)

So far, every one of your attempts to refute what I'm posting has been without scriptural support, while in every one of my posts to you I have shown you the scripture which reflects what I'm communicating. Don't give me your opinion, show me the scripture!
( you do not quote scripture correctly nor can read coherently. Most of what you post refutes you)

[LuckyStrike]

You have proved nothing! I have offered up proofs from scripture, science, and history to show that the white "race" is not Israel. You link a slide show from some man that makes unfounded, unproven claims that the white man is the so-called lost 10 tribes of Israel, not only without any proof whatsoever, but in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary from all quarters!

I don't see you responding yet about the DNA evidence refuting your claim that the white man is the "lost" ten tribes of Israel. Perhaps you are waiting on approved refutations from your Identity teacher that you rely upon, rather than the Bible. The Bible has never been successfully refuted by anybody. Archeology, Histrionics, every branch of science, confirms the veracity of the word of God. I've presented many arguments against your position and you ignore them all and pretend they don't exist because you cannot afford to acknowledge them. As you expressed earlier in the thread, it sure can be frustrating when other posters completely ignore the evidence presented.


You might want to actually read the Bible, over and over again, to find out what it says, rather than email your Identity teacher to tell you what it says. All I can say is LOL.
A bastard is one who is born of incest or adultery. Can you explain what that has to do with racial mixing?


Thank you for your time greenbear have a nice weekend. ;)

[madfranks]

you do not quote scripture correctly nor can read coherently. Most of what you post refutes you

Well then we're at a stalemate I'm afraid. Because I think that you do not quote scripture correctly and most of what you post refutes you.

[greenbear]

You have proved nothing! I have offered up proofs from scripture, science, and history to show that the white "race" is not Israel. You link a slide show from some man that makes unfounded, unproven claims that the white man is the so-called lost 10 tribes of Israel, not only without any proof whatsoever, but in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary from all quarters!

I don't see you responding yet about the DNA evidence refuting your claim that the white man is the "lost" ten tribes of Israel. Perhaps you are waiting on approved refutations from your Identity teacher that you rely upon, rather than the Bible. The Bible has never been successfully refuted by anybody. Archeology, Histrionics, every branch of science, confirms the veracity of the word of God. I've presented many arguments against your position and you ignore them all and pretend they don't exist because you cannot afford to acknowledge them. As you expressed earlier in the thread, it sure can be frustrating when other posters completely ignore the evidence presented.


You might want to actually read the Bible, over and over again, to find out what it says, rather than email your Identity teacher to tell you what it says. All I can say is LOL.
A bastard is one who is born of incest or adultery. Can you explain what that has to do with racial mixing?


Thank you for your time greenbear have a nice weekend. ;)


Nice argument?

[greenbear]

1/5 of the Bible has to do with prophecy of Israel in the end times. More than 1400 verses describe Israel in the land that God has given to her being persecuted and killed during the tribulation period. Your absurd and fanciful idea that Anglo-Saxon/ Germanic/Scandinavian peoples are physical Israel has been devastated for 100 years by scripture, archaeology, linguistics, and historical evidence, and most recently by genetics, but you guys cannot see reality, you are deluded. You have NO SUPPORT from the Bible, or from any branch of human knowledge.

The borders of the land promised to Israel, which comprises all 12 tribes, for perpetuity, that is for all eternity, is described in Numbers 34:6-15.

And as for the western border, ye shall even have the great sea for a border: this shall be your west border. And this shall be your north border: from the great sea ye shall point out for you mount Hor: From mount Hor ye shall point out your border unto the entrance of Hamath; and the goings forth of the border shall be to Zedad: And the border shall go on to Ziphron, and the goings out of it shall be at Hazarenan: this shall be your north border. And ye shall point out your east border from Hazarenan to Shepham: And the coast shall go down from Shepham to Riblah, on the east side of Ain; and the border shall descend, and shall reach unto the side of the sea of Chinnereth eastward: And the border shall go down to Jordan, and the goings out of it shall be at the salt sea: this shall be your land with the coasts thereof round about. And Moses commanded the children of Israel, saying, This is the land which ye shall inherit by lot, which the LORD commanded to give unto the nine tribes, and to the half tribe: For the tribe of the children of Reuben according to the house of their fathers, and the tribe of the children of Gad according to the house of their fathers, have received their inheritance; and half the tribe of Manasseh have received their inheritance: The two tribes and the half tribe have received their inheritance on this side Jordan near Jericho eastward, toward the sunrising.

The Battle of Armageddon is not just a movie, it will occur in the valley of Megiddo, also called the valley of Jezreel, which is an actual location that amazingly has has more battles than in any other location on the face of the earth. According to Bible prophesy, this is a primary and final location that Christ is going to fight against the nations that are coming to destroy Israel at his second coming.

"And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs"
(Revelation 14:20).

The "city" (14:20) undoubtedly refers to Jerusalem, for it and its Godly inhabitants will again make it the "apple of [Jehovah's] eye" (Lamentations 2:18). "And give Him no rest, till He establish, and till He make Jerusalem a praise in the Earth" (Isaiah 62:7). The "blood of the grapes" (Genesis 49:11) has figuratively described the pressed juice of the grapes, but here it actually describes the blood of formerly living human beings, who have been slain in the judgments surrounding the Second Coming of the LORD Jesus Christ. "I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with Me: for I will tread them in Mine anger, and trample them in My fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon My garments, and I will stain all My raiment" (Isaiah 63:3). The LORD God has never taken pleasure in the death of the wicked. "Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?" (Ezekiel 33:11).

However, at this time (14:20), the death of the wicked will purge humanity of sin; and, the Almighty will defend the purity and integrity of the City or the Great House that He has invited all men to dwell in-- which invitation, only His children have accepted. "24 Therefore whosoever heareth these Sayings of Mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of Mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it" (Matthew 7:24-27). Blood will come out of the winepress "even unto the horse bridles" (14:20). Some speculate that the blood of slain men at Armageddon will yield a flow of blood deep enough to come up to the bridle of a horse, while others conjecture that it represents only a liberal splattering of blood. However the LORD brings His Word to pass, we are assured that the life of humanity will be liberally dissipated in this Judgment, for the "life of the flesh is in the blood" (Leviticus 17:11).

A "thousand and six hundred furlongs" (14:20) is the distance in which the blood will flow "unto the horse bridles" (14:20). A furlong, according to "Easton's Bible Dictionary" (1897), is "a stadium, a Greek measure of distance equal to 606 feet and 9 inches [or, 606.75 feet]". 1,600 furlongs would then be the equivalent of 183.86 miles. What do we believe to be the manner of the LORD Jesus Christ's Second Coming?

(1) Christ will descend to the Mount of Olives, just as He previously ascended from it. "11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into Heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into Heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into Heaven. 12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a Sabbath day's journey " (Acts 1:11-12). "3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when He fought in the day of battle. 4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the Mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south" (Zechariah 14:3-4).

(2) Christ will then pursue His enemies, slaying them, down to Bozrah. Bozrah lies approximately 18 miles southeast of the Dead Sea in the mountain district of Petra, according to the "Davis Dictionary of the Bible", and it is approximately 58 miles southeast of the Mount of Olives. "6 The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea. 7 And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness" (Isaiah 34:6-7). And,

(3) Christ will then continue His pursuit and slaying of His enemies from Bozrah to Megiddo-- Megiddo being the ancient city close by the final conflict at Armageddon-- traveling approximately another 128 miles. "1 Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in His apparel, travelling in the greatness of His strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save. 2 Wherefore art Thou red in Thine apparel, and Thy garments like Him that treadeth in the winefat? 3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with Me: for I will tread them in Mine anger, and trample them in My fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon My garments, and I will stain all My raiment. 4 For the day of vengeance is in Mine heart, and the year of My redeemed is come. 5 And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore Mine own arm brought Salvation unto Me; and My fury, it upheld Me. 6 And I will tread down the people in Mine anger, and make them drunk in My fury, and I will bring down their strength to the Earth" (Isaiah 63:1-6). Combining the distances from the Mount of Olives to Bozrah of 58 miles with the distance from Bozrah to Megiddo of 128 miles, is a distance of 186 miles, which is approximately the same as 1,600 furlongs (14:20).

Maranatha!


America, Britain, and the white races, are not Israel. That is a fairy tale. The true Jews, of all twelve tribes, are being regathered in their own land in unbelief, for judgment, and for refinement. The scriptures say that one third of the Jews will survive the Tribulation period.


This is the valley of Megiddo, where Christ finishes his slaughter of those who come against his own people to destroy them, that is Israel/the Jews, a people who have kept their genealogies intact from ancient times, unlike the supposed "white races" whom [i]you say are Israel but just that had a bad case of amnesia so they forgot! To imagine that this scripture, and many others, will be fulfilled in America is both unscriptural, and just plain lunacy!


http://www.bibleplaces.com/images/MEGIDDO_PASS_AERIAL_FROM_NORTHEAST_120-14TB_wr.jpg

[Occamsrazor]

The genetic testing of today`s Ashkenazi Jews shows that most of them also carry Sephardic genes and many carry Northern African genes.

Shlomo Sand is most lilkely a shlemazel or a shlemiel.

[Quantum]

Israel/the Jews, a people who have kept their genealogies intact from ancient times


There's that "saved by race" abomination again!

What the Bible says about your "Jews":

"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also."

[Quantum]

A bastard is one who is born of incest or adultery.


Not in the Bible. You're using a modern meaning to distort the original. Why would God prohibit someone from being amongst His congregation for the adultery of his great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandparent? He wouldn't! The mamzer that is prohibited is forever cursed as a result of race-mixing, which cannot be reversed.

God saved Noah because he was "perfect in his generations" (purely Adamic). God has given eternal blessings to true Israel (NOT your mamzer "Jews"). Christ demeaned a Samaritan woman as a dog solely because of her ancestry. The evidence that God is a racist is clear and irrefutable.

Since you are yoked to an admitted mamzer, it is obvious that you are not and never will be interested in the truth. You are probably a mamzer yourself.

[Quantum]

The genetic testing of today`s Ashkenazi Jews shows that most of them also carry Sephardic genes and many carry Northern African genes.

Shlomo Sand is most lilkely a shlemazel or a shlemiel.


Another mamzer "Jew" crawling out of the woodwork! Aren't you the guy that fantasizes about cold-blooded, satanic liar & killer Joseph Jewison (Stalin)?

Ashkenazi (i.e., Khazar) "Jews" have no Sephardic ancestry, so obviously the genetic "testing" is flawed, or more likely, rigged.

[StackerKen]

. Christ demeaned a Samaritan woman as a dog solely because of her ancestry. The evidence that God is a racist is clear and irrefutable.



Are you stupid?

Jesus Gave that woman what she wanted and told her that she had great faith

Faith comes only from God

When he called her a "puppy" he was being Derogatory or sarcastic (like I was in my question above) I think that story blows your CI theory out of the water. And maybe that why Jesus said that to her. to show folks how ridicules the race crap is...

.He may have also been testing her and also he could have been showing the people and to us that would read it 2000 years later how important faith is.

Faith overcomes

[StackerKen]

I am not a Zionist...I don't know who the real Israel is...or who the real Jews are...

It doesn't matter to me.

What does matter to me is when someone says God is Racist.

and it matters to me when people make stuff up...and/or try to twist scripture


How do you CI folks explain the huge spiritual revival in China right now?

The Christian church is growing tremendously there...even with the persecution they face.

Folks go to jail for owning or possessing a bible....yet they want them badly

The Spirit of God is clearly move and working in china.

[Occamsrazor]

The genetic testing of today`s Ashkenazi Jews shows that most of them also carry Sephardic genes and many carry Northern African genes.

Shlomo Sand is most lilkely a shlemazel or a shlemiel.


Another mamzer "Jew" crawling out of the woodwork! Aren't you the guy that fantasizes about cold-blooded, satanic liar & killer Joseph Jewison (Stalin)?

Ashkenazi (i.e., Khazar) "Jews" have no Sephardic ancestry, so obviously the genetic "testing" is flawed, or more likely, rigged.


Mamzer? This word is known to Jews only. Welcome to the club.

[Quantum]

Are you stupid?


You're not adopting the greenbear theory of debate, are you?




When he called her a "puppy" he was being Derogatory or sarcastic (like I was in my question above)


Puppy?

"And behold, a Canaanitish woman came out from those borders, and cried, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a demon. But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. But he answered and said, I was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. But she came and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. And he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread and cast it to the dogs. But she said, Yea, Lord: for even the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it done unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was healed from that hour."




I think that story blows your CI theory out of the water. And maybe that why Jesus said that to her. to show folks how ridicules the race crap is...


Christ demonstrated that even an unfavored ADAMIC woman can earn favor with her faith. This was an ADAMIC woman, not even a "living creature" pre-Adamite.




He may have also been testing her and also he could have been showing the people and to us that would read it 2000 years later how important faith is.

Faith overcomes


Faith IN CHRIST overcomes the reasonable challenges we face. It does NOT overcome unbreachable obstacles. You can't levitate by faith. You can't stop a bullet with faith. You can't un-mix a mamzer by faith.

[Quantum]

Mamzer? This word is known to Jews only. Welcome to the club.


Mamzer is Hebrew, not Yiddish. If you're calling me Hebrew, I'll take that as a great compliment. If you're calling me a Khazar "Jew," you can stick it.

[Occamsrazor]

Mamzer? This word is known to Jews only. Welcome to the club.


Mamzer is Hebrew, not Yiddish. If you're calling me Hebrew, I'll take that as a great compliment. If you're calling me a Khazar "Jew," you can stick it.

mamzer is Yiddish and you are ben shockely.

[philo beddoe]

Israel/the Jews, a people who have kept their genealogies intact from ancient times


There's that "saved by race" abomination again!

What the Bible says about your "Jews":

"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also."
chirp chirp chirp.....waiting for a reply from greenbear

[StackerKen]

Faith IN CHRIST overcomes the reasonable challenges we face. It does NOT overcome unbreachable obstacles. You can't levitate by faith. You can't stop a bullet with faith. You can't un-mix a mamzer by faith.


Read the bible much?

Matthew 17:20
He replied, "Because you have so little faith.
I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed,
you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move.
Nothing will be impossible for you."

[Quantum]

I am not a Zionist...I don't know who the real Israel is...or who the real Jews are...

It doesn't matter to me.


It matters to God. It should matter to you.




What does matter to me is when someone says God is Racist.


You have adopted the Mystery Babylon perception of being a racist is "evil." It is not. It is a godly perspective on human affairs. It was not only respectable but considered sane to be a racist until a few decades ago. "Racism" became "evil" about the same time sodomy and abortion became "acceptable" - for the same reason.




and it matters to me when people make stuff up...and/or try to twist scripture


Why don't you attack greenbear and teabagger over their worship of the "Jews," and their incessant "making things up" to promote the devilish "state of Israel"?

We've explained scripture, and you are unable to refute it. Now you, like greenbear, are getting mad and calling names.




How do you CI folks explain the huge spiritual revival in China right now?


What am I to explain? Christ commanded us to preach the Gospel to "every creature." That includes Adamites and pre-Adamites. Unless you think we were supposed to try to convert fluffy bunnies and kitties?




The Spirit of God is clearly move and working in china.


Yes? The Chinese are God's creatures, just as we are. Pretty cool that they're worshiping God instead of statues.

However, it appears you're attempting to use this modern missionary work as "evidence" that the Chinese are "just like us." If so, perhaps you'd like to explain why there was no missionary work whatsoever in China (or other non-White lands) from the time of Christ until a couple centuries ago? Did God not care about their souls, and just let them wallow in their sin? Or did God want missionary work to concentrate on His finest creation, Adamites, first?

[philo beddoe]

Faith IN CHRIST overcomes the reasonable challenges we face. It does NOT overcome unbreachable obstacles. You can't levitate by faith. You can't stop a bullet with faith. You can't un-mix a mamzer by faith.


Read the bible much?

Matthew 17:20
He replied, "Because you have so little faith.
I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed,
you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move.
Nothing will be impossible for you."


I'm waiting for mountains to be moved without caterpillar.

[Quantum]

mamzer is Yiddish and you are ben shockely.


That's news to Dr. Strong.

Mamzer = Strong's Hebrew 4464

Who is Ben Shockely?

[Quantum]

Read the bible much?

Matthew 17:20
He replied, "Because you have so little faith.
I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed,
you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move.
Nothing will be impossible for you."




Either Jesus was using hyperbole, or He was lying. Which is it?

If not hyperbole, I hereby command Mount Everest to move one mile to the south.

[StackerKen]

I am not a Zionist...I don't know who the real Israel is...or who the real Jews are...

It doesn't matter to me.


It matters to God. It should matter to you.




What does matter to me is when someone says God is Racist.


You have adopted the Mystery Babylon perception of being a racist is "evil." It is not. It is a godly perspective on human affairs. It was not only respectable but considered sane to be a racist until a few decades ago. "Racism" became "evil" about the same time sodomy and abortion became "acceptable" - for the same reason.




and it matters to me when people make stuff up...and/or try to twist scripture


Why don't you attack greenbear and teabagger over their worship of the "Jews," and their incessant "making things up" to promote the devilish "state of Israel"?

We've explained scripture, and you are unable to refute it. Now you, like greenbear, are getting mad and calling names.




How do you CI folks explain the huge spiritual revival in China right now?


What am I to explain? Christ commanded us to preach the Gospel to "every creature." That includes Adamites and pre-Adamites. Unless you think we were supposed to try to convert fluffy bunnies and kitties?




The Spirit of God is clearly move and working in china.


Yes? The Chinese are God's creatures, just as we are. Pretty cool that they're worshiping God instead of statues.

However, it appears you're attempting to use this modern missionary work as "evidence" that the Chinese are "just like us." If so, perhaps you'd like to explain why there was no missionary work whatsoever in China (or other non-White lands) from the time of Christ until a couple centuries ago? Did God not care about their souls, and just let them wallow in their sin? Or did God want missionary work to concentrate on His finest creation, Adamites, first?


Ok clearly I do not understand CI

Im glad you cleared a bit of it up for me.
and Im glad you agree that all can be saved though faith in Christ.
That is the important thing.

Where did I call anyone names?

Sometimes I do get angry...but I get over it pretty quickly...thats be to God for that :)

[greenbear]

Israel/the Jews, a people who have kept their genealogies intact from ancient times


There's that "saved by race" abomination again!

What the Bible says about your "Jews":

"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also."


You do not have ears to hear.

Identity has the "saved by race" abomination, not biblical Christians. Identity believes they are saved by virtue of their supposed genealogy.

Christians who believe the Bible know they are saved by grace through faith in the risen Lord Jesus Christ, who died for the sins of all humanity, and rose again for their justification.

1 Timothy 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

The Lord will explain it all to you in due time, one way or the other. My hope and prayer is that you will understand and believe the gospel of the grace of God before you stand before God in judgment.

1 Timothy 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

As to what a Christian's attitude should be toward the Jews, be informed by the Apostle Paul: Read Romans chapter 11 in it's entirety.

Specifically,


Romans 11:17-29 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with

them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the

root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and

thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold

therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness:

otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. For

if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall

these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery,

lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all

Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my

covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election,

they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

You all like to cherry pick a verse here and there to try to support your incredibly simplistic and unfounded theories. You do not understand the Bible because you have not read, nor studied to show yourselves approved, nor have understood it. You don't read the Bible yourselves, but you call out to your own scribes and pharisees, "Tell me what the Bible says, because I'm too lazy to study it for myself, and besides, my itching ears like what your peddling". And, "I like hearing that I'm incredibly special, better than any other group of people that has ever lived! Please tell me more lies about how special I am, and how I am righteous because I am white-skinned, and can not be lost as long as I hate the unclean thing- the beasts of the field, and the half-spawn of Satan, the Jews." You have rejected Jesus every bit as much as the Jews have. The difference is that their race has a promise of a glorious future once they receive their Messiah. You have already rejected the free gift of salvation by grace through faith alone in Christ alone, in favor of trusting in your skin color, and your nefarious genetic ties to Israel. You will die in your sins, but you will not be able to say that nobody warned you.

I can't read the Bible for other people. I recommend that you read the Holy Bible for yourselves to see what it actually says about these things.

[Horn]

Alls I know is I'm tired of seeing this piece of shit thread show up in the recent posts window, ken.

Don't feed the freaks.

[StackerKen]

Read the bible much?

Matthew 17:20
He replied, "Because you have so little faith.
I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed,
you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move.
Nothing will be impossible for you."




Either Jesus was using hyperbole, or He was lying. Which is it?

If not hyperbole, I hereby command Mount Everest to move one mile to the south.


is this Hyperbole also then?

Jesus said in Matthew 21:22

If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."


Of course your faith has to be aligned with Gods will for Mount Everest to move.

or maybe your faith and mine are not as big as a mustard seed.

Faith is not a force....God does the moving of the mountain :)

[StackerKen]

Alls I know is I'm tired of seeing this piece of sh*t thread show up in the recent posts window, ken.

Don't feed the freaks.


Ok sorry Horn.

I think my work is done here now :)

[Occamsrazor]

Alls I know is I'm tired of seeing this piece of sh*t thread show up in the recent posts window, ken.

Don't feed the freaks.


IMHO this is the shittiest thread ever.

[Quantum]

Ok clearly I do not understand CI

Im glad you cleared a bit of it up for me.
and Im glad you agree that all can be saved though faith in Christ.
That is the important thing.


Indeed!




Where did I call anyone names?

Sometimes I do get angry...but I get over it pretty quickly...thats be to God for that :)


"Are you stupid"?

I don't hold grudges, so it's OK. 8)

[StackerKen]

Ok clearly I do not understand CI

Im glad you cleared a bit of it up for me.
and Im glad you agree that all can be saved though faith in Christ.
That is the important thing.


Indeed!




Where did I call anyone names?

Sometimes I do get angry...but I get over it pretty quickly...thats be to God for that :)


"Are you stupid"?

I don't hold grudges, so it's OK. 8)



I just wanna clear that up....I was asking ......Not calling.... :)

It was a rhetorical question...just like I think Jesus was asking the Samaritan woman....get it now? :)

[Quantum]

You do not have ears to hear.


LOL - you're a real comedienne.

Care to tell us what 1 John 2:22-23 means?




Identity believes they are saved by virtue of their supposed genealogy.


That is ABSOLUTELY NOT true. "Thou shalt not bear false witness." Ever read that?




As to what a Christian's attitude should be toward the Jews, be informed by the Apostle Paul:


St. John describes Talmud Jews as "antichrist."




You have already rejected the free gift of salvation by grace through faith alone in Christ alone, in favor of trusting in your skin color, and your nefarious genetic ties to Israel.


I have NEVER said any of that, ever. You are kook no different than John Hagee.

Jesus Christ IS my savior and King. I have never taught "salvation by race," but you have, when you insist the Khazar "Jews" are "God's chosen" despite rejecting Jesus Christ.




I can't read the Bible for other people. I recommend that you read the Holy Bible for yourselves to see what it actually says about these things.


You don't teach the Bible; you teach what your Judeo-"Christian" preachers tell you.

[Quantum]

Alls I know is I'm tired of seeing this piece of sh*t thread show up in the recent posts window, ken.

Don't feed the freaks.


Are you a mamzer, or do you lie with one?

[Quantum]

Read the bible much?

Matthew 17:20
He replied, "Because you have so little faith.
I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed,
you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move.
Nothing will be impossible for you."




Either Jesus was using hyperbole, or He was lying. Which is it?

If not hyperbole, I hereby command Mount Everest to move one mile to the south.


is this Hyperbole also then?

Jesus said in Matthew 21:22

If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."


Of course your faith has to be aligned with Gods will for Mount Everest to move.

or maybe your faith and mine are not as big as a mustard seed.

Faith is not a force....God does the moving of the mountain :)




If you believe the entire Bible is 100% literal, then you've got problems, Ken. That's not an insult.

[Occamsrazor]

Alls I know is I'm tired of seeing this piece of sh*t thread show up in the recent posts window, ken.

Don't feed the freaks.


Are you a mamzer, or do you lie with one?


You may want to contact National Recovery. They may have a program for those addicted to using the word "mamzer'.

[StackerKen]

No,I don't believe the entire Bible is 100% literal....

But I believe the entire bible 100% :)

[7th trump]

you do not quote scripture correctly nor can read coherently. Most of what you post refutes you

Well then we're at a stalemate I'm afraid. Because I think that you do not quote scripture correctly and most of what you post refutes you.

I guess we are at a stale mate then. Good luck to you at the 6th trumpet.

[7th trump]

I am not a Zionist...I don't know who the real Israel is...or who the real Jews are...

It doesn't matter to me.


It matters to God. It should matter to you.




What does matter to me is when someone says God is Racist.


You have adopted the Mystery Babylon perception of being a racist is "evil." It is not. It is a godly perspective on human affairs. It was not only respectable but considered sane to be a racist until a few decades ago. "Racism" became "evil" about the same time sodomy and abortion became "acceptable" - for the same reason.




and it matters to me when people make stuff up...and/or try to twist scripture


Why don't you attack greenbear and teabagger over their worship of the "Jews," and their incessant "making things up" to promote the devilish "state of Israel"?

We've explained scripture, and you are unable to refute it. Now you, like greenbear, are getting mad and calling names.




How do you CI folks explain the huge spiritual revival in China right now?


What am I to explain? Christ commanded us to preach the Gospel to "every creature." That includes Adamites and pre-Adamites. Unless you think we were supposed to try to convert fluffy bunnies and kitties?




The Spirit of God is clearly move and working in china.


Yes? The Chinese are God's creatures, just as we are. Pretty cool that they're worshiping God instead of statues.

However, it appears you're attempting to use this modern missionary work as "evidence" that the Chinese are "just like us." If so, perhaps you'd like to explain why there was no missionary work whatsoever in China (or other non-White lands) from the time of Christ until a couple centuries ago? Did God not care about their souls, and just let them wallow in their sin? Or did God want missionary work to concentrate on His finest creation, Adamites, first?

Chineese are white as much as anglo saxons and Japaneese. And yes there is a huge movement of Christianity growing in China. The sheperds chapel gets a lot of hits (downloads from China) and letters from China. I wouldnt doubt the movement there isnt caused by the chapel itself. And to think people on this board promote Arnold as a racist...................hes not by any means. He holds passover with all kinds of races walking through the doors...............its televised.

God created all the races on the sixth day including the white race. On the 8th day he created the race that Christ would come through (just happens to be white as well). It was the husband race that Jesus would come through. You know what "husband" means right?

[greenbear]

Scriptural proof that ten tribes of Israel were never lost (and didn't develop amnesia about who they are).

Actually, the ancient tribes of Israel have never been lost, except spiritually. Isaiah prophesied that, although the Hebrew people would be scattered among the Gentiles, their nationality would never be lost, nor their identity unknown (Isaiah 61:9).

Jews have always been recognizable as Jews and have never lost their Jewishness. However, they are indeed lost spiritually, as the prophets described (Isaiah 29:10-14). Over 2500 years ago, God told us that the political revival of Israel would be a spiritually dead revival until a later time when God would breathe life into His people (Ezekial 37:8-9). The Lord also promised to regather all the Jews and unite His beloved people into one great kingdom at Messiah's return (Isaiah 11:11-13).

The claim that the Jews of today are descended only from the southern tribes (Judah and Benjamin) that remained loyal to Solomon's son Rehoboam has no Biblical support. To the contrary, Scripture actually refutes this claim.

After Solomon's death, the ten northern tribes set up a separate kingdom (Israel) under King Jeroboam, who was not of the House of David (1 Kings 12:20). During the time of the divided kingdom, many Israelites in the Northern Kingdom identified themselves with the House of David (2 Chronicles 11:14-17; 15:9; 19:4). The terms "Israel," "Judah," and "Jacob" became interchangeable (Isaiah 1:1-3; 48:1; 2 Chronicles 19:1; 21:2).

Judah's godly kings (particularly Asa, Jehoshaphat, Hezekiah, and Josiah) addressed all twelve tribes and offered up sacrifices on their behalf (2 Chronicles 15:8-15; 19:4; 29:24; 35:18). This is the point where British Israelites err most seriously. They wrongly insist that the two-kingdom division between Israel and Judah never ceased. History shows otherwise.

The Assyrians took the Northern Kingdom captive in 722 BC, and the Southern Kingdom was captured by Babylon in 586 BC. Following both invasions, the Jews were deported to the same general geographical area (modern-day Iraq and Iran). Because Babylon and Assyria ruled largely the same territory, the Israelite and Judean captives commingled. Both groups lived as captives under similar conditions and during this time, the divisions, enmity, and rivalry between Judah and Israel ended. Jeremiah says the captors made no distinction between Israel and Judah (Jeremiah 50:33). Later, the Book of Esther records that the Jewish people were scattered throughout the Persian Empire, and that Esther (along with her uncle Mordecai) thwarted Haman's plot to destroy all the Jews. They not only survived, but they attained some prominence and prosperity in those regions of the empire. They did not need to migrate to Russia, Eastern Europe, or distant parts of Asia.

After the captivity, when Ezra and Nehemiah led the dispersed Jews back to the land of Israel from Persia, those who returned were called "all Israel" or "the children of Israel" or "the seed of Israel" (Ezra 6:16-17; 8:25, 35; 10:1; Nehemiah 7:73; 9:2). Artaxerxes' decree specified that "all they of the people of Israel" were free to return to Jerusalem (Ezra 7:13). Surely no one could argue that the ten tribes were excluded from that return from captivity. In fact, the evidence shows that some returned from all of the tribes-while many remained in positions of influence in Persia.

In 458 BC, Artaxerxes allowed Ezra the scribe and the Children of Israel to return to Zion with the priests and Levites (Ezra 7:7, 13; 8:35). Ezra's caravan of over 1800 families was made up of all the "children of Israel," with no mention of tribal distinctions. The Book of Nehemiah likewise reveals that both kingdoms participated in the restoration. The word "Jew" is used eleven times and "Israel" twenty-two times, referring to the same people.

After return from captivity, "Jew" and "Israelite" became synonymous terms, referring to the physical descendants of Abraham through Jacob. Forgetting earlier national differences, purity of the bloodline was the critical issue. Ezra required that all Gentile wives be put away (10:2-11).

The returned remnant grew in numbers during Greek rule (330-167 BC), the Maccabean period (167-63 BC), and Herodian-Roman rule (beginning in 63 BC). By the first century, "the Jews" were a relatively large nation numbering in the millions. Additionally, more Jews lived in Diaspora settlements than in the Promised Land. Those in the dispersion still looked to Jerusalem as their national center, cherished the same history and traditions, grew up under the same laws and institutions, and anticipated a common future.

In the New Testament, there is no hint of any "lost tribes of Israel." In fact, the term "Hebrew" was used interchangeably with the terms "Israelite" and "Jew." For example, Nicodemus is referred to as a "ruler of the Jews" and a "master of Israel" (John 3:1, 10). In Mark 15:26 and 15:32, Yeshua is called "King of the Jews" and "King of Israel." Paul (a Benjamite) calls himself a Jew in Acts 21:39 and 22:3, an Israelite in Romans 11:1, and a Hebrew in Philippians 3:5. We might also note that Anna the prophetess, mentioned in the book of Luke, was of Asher, one of the purportedly, "lost tribes."

Paul also spoke of all twelve tribes having hope in the resurrection (Acts 26:7). James, Yeshua's brother, addresses his epistle to "all the twelve tribes scattered abroad" (1:1). Peter spoke to the "men of Judea," addressing them as "fellow Israelites" (Acts 2: 14, 22).

In Scripture, we see that "Hebrew," "Israelite," and "Jew" all refer to the physical descendants of the patriarch Jacob. There is a very important reason why these three names are used synonymously in Scripture: to emphasize that all of Israel - all twelve tribes - were and still are God's covenant people, sharing the same promises, blessings, curses, and destiny.

The Jewish historian Josephus, writing nearly one hundred years after Messiah, knew that the ten Israelite tribes were not "lost." He said these ". . . tribes are beyond the river Euphrates till now, and are an immense multitude, not to be estimated by numbers" (Antiquities of the Jews, Book XI, Chapter 5, Section 2). He stated that the Israelites remained "beyond the Euphrates" east of Jerusalem, not west in Britain or the Americas as British Israelism argues. Also, we have much extra biblical evidence of an ongoing Jewish presence in the region of Babylon.

In his commentary on the Book of James, Jerome, the translator of the Latin Vulgate, remarked that the ten tribes were still in Persia in his day (AD 331-420). As late as AD 1835, a medical missionary, Dr. Asahel Grant, placed the ten tribes in the region of Assyria and Media or modern-day Iraq and Iran. In very recent times (after the Islamic revolution in Iran), the Ayatollah Khomeini expelled hundreds of Persian Jews, who resettled in America.

So, where are the Tribes of Israel now? God's Word answers this question so clearly that no one should go astray. God declared through Moses that Israel would be plucked from the Promised Land and scattered to the ends of the earth (Deuteronomy 28:63-64). With the Assyrian-Babylonian captivities, God fulfilled this word, and did so again after Rome took Jerusalem in AD 70. But despite unbelievable persecution and tribulation, a remnant of Israel has always survived with their Jewish identity intact.

God said He would return Israel to their land (Deuteronomy 30:1-5), and now He has done so. With the reestablishment of Israel in 1948, we saw an amazing fulfillment of prophecy. How many other nations have been conquered and scattered, only to reoccupy their ancient territory and gain statehood thousands of years later? Who, witnessing Hitler's madness during World War II, would imagine the Jews could survive and reestablish themselves in the Holy Land? But as was divinely foretold, Israel would endure and become one nation (Ezekial 36:24; 37: 16-22; Jeremiah 23:8; 31:1).

It is this national and religious identity that is the strongest extra biblical evidence against these theories. Wherever the Children of Israel dwelt, they were to keep - and whenever possible, did keep - the Sabbath Day holy (Exodus 31:16-17). Have the British ever kept the seventh-day Sabbath? The Jews were to abide ". . . many days without a king and without a prince, . . ." (Hosea 3:4). This can be said of the Jews, especially after AD 70 - but certainly never of the British, many of whom pride themselves on their royal family. The Jews were commanded to keep the Passover and Feast of Unleavened Bread. Have the British or Americans, as a nation, ever observed the Passover?

Both the Bible and history make it clear that the Anglo-Saxons and the Israelites are completely different peoples, whose different customs, legends, living patterns, and names reveal separate origins. It does no good to confuse the issue with the racial-transference ideas that British Israelism, Mormonism, Or the Two House Theory propose. These doctrines distort Scripture and history, and tend to stimulate racism - often against Jews. Such theories are devilish distractions designed to divert our attention from the most important issue; namely, that each person's eternal destiny depends not on racial descent or nationality, but only on being "in Messiah."

Paul tells us in Galatians 3:28 that there are only two significant classes of people: believers (the saved) and unbelievers (the unsaved). All other distinctions are unimportant to God insofar as salvation is concerned. Nonetheless, the New Testament distinguishes the Jews from other unbelievers (1 Corinthians 10:32) in order to emphasize that God has not forgotten His unique relationship with the Jews - nor indeed can He. God still loves the Jews and has a special plan for them (Isaiah 49: 14-16). It is unscriptural and simply wrong to take the promises that God gave to Israel and apply them to other people.

The Bible assures us that God will fulfill every vow He made to the Jews: ". . . the gifts and calling of God are without repentance" (Romans 11:29). God told Abraham, ". . . I will bless them that bless you, and curse him that curses you, and in you shall all families of the earth be blessed" (Genesis 12:3). This promise to Abraham, and to the chosen descendants through Jacob, has never been repealed. Indeed, God's vow has been fulfilled in history so many times that, if men were logical, self-interest alone would spur everyone to bless the Jews - and anti-Semitism would have disappeared entirely!

There are those who may continue to curse Israel. But our responsibility, as members of the Body of Messiah, is to bless the Jews - and especially to share the Gospel with them. Regardless of how our efforts are received, we can rest in the knowledge that God's Word shall not return void; it shall not return without accomplishing what God desires and without succeeding in the matter for which it was sent (Isaiah 55:11).

http://www.foundationsmin.org/studies/tentribes.htm

[greenbear]

I'm planning a summer BBQ for my husbands co-workers. A couple of them are beasts of the field. These cattle are network engineers, one is even a senior manager over other managers, who manage a group of network engineers. These black beasts sure are smart, and I enjoy their company very much.

[fiftybagger]

As the following article details, there are many verses which prove that no tribes were "lost". Anna was from the tribe of Asher, etc. etc. etc.

Ten Lost Tribes: Found
© January 2001 By Asher Intrater

The kingdom of Israel reached its height at the time of David and Solomon, approximately 1,000 years before the time of Yeshua. During the reign of Solomon's son, Rehoboam, the northern ten tribes of Israel split away from Judah and Benjamin. Thus the kingdom was divided into the northern tribes of Israel and the southern tribes of Judah.

This division became the object of the messianic hope to be reunited by the future Messiah (Ezekiel 37:12ff). There is also the symbolic sense that the northern tribes represent the international church, while the tribe of Judah represents the Jewish people and the nation of Israel. Yet those two viewpoints are prophetic and symbolic, not historical and genealogical.

The northern tribes of Israel were taken into captivity by the Assyrians in the eighth century BC and the southern tribes of Judah were taken into captivity in the sixth century. The Bible records that the captivity of Judah returned to the land of Israel during the fifth century BC.

Since there was no major description of the restoration of the northern tribes, much speculation and curiosity have arisen over the years as to the question, "Where are the lost ten tribes?"

An interesting yet dangerous trend is that many Christian cult groups claim to be actual descendants of the ten northern tribes. This ranges from groups in Japan to native Americans. There are some elements in Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses that make a similar claim. It has even effected parts of the Christian Zionist movement.

The truth of the matter is that there are no lost ten tribes. During the time of the kingdom division and the captivities, a certain percentage of each of the northern tribes came down and took up residence in the area of Judah. After that time the name Judah or the Jews referred not only to the specific tribe of Judah but also to the Benjaminites, the Levites and the remnant of all the northern tribes.

There are no lost ten tribes. All the tribes of Israel are included in what we call today the Jewish people. There are seven basic biblical evidences that prove this position.

Israel Remnant in Judah (II Chronicles)
The book of II Chronicles records many times that the members of the northern tribes immigrated to Judah after the kingdom division. This happened from the very moment of the division.
II Chronicles 10: 16-17: "So all Israel departed to their tents. But Rehoboam reigned over THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL WHO DWELT IN THE CITIES OF JUDAH."

It couldn't be stated more clearly that there were members of the Israeli tribes living in the territory of Judah. II Chronicles 11:3 states that Rehoboam was the king not only of Judah but to "ALL" Israel living "IN" Judah and Benjamin. II Chronicles 11:16-17 states that members of "ALL" the tribes of Israel who were loyal to God came down to Jerusalem and strengthened the kingdom of Judah.

II Chronicles 15:9 tells us that during the revival of King Assa that there were "great numbers from Israel" who came over to Judah. II Chronicles 24:5 speaks of members gathered from all the tribes of Israel. II Chronicles 30:21 and 25 speak of the children of the Israelite tribes who came to Judah during the time of King Hezekiah. II Chronicles 31:6 speaks again of the children of Israel who dwelt in the cities of Judah.

II Chronicles 30:10 speaks of members of the tribes of Ephraim, Menassah, Zebulun, and Asher coming to Jerusalem. II Chronicles 30:18 mentions also the tribe of Issachar. II Chronicles 34:6 adds to that list members of the tribes of Simeon and Naphtali. II Chronicles 34:9 states clearly that there were members of "ALL THE REMNANT OF ISRAEL" who were living in Jerusalem after the time of the Assyrian captivity. II Chronicles 35:3 again mentions that there were members of "all Israel" who were part of Judah.

Captivity Restored (Ezra and Nehemiah)
After the Babylonian captivity, the nation of Israel was restored under the leadership of Ezra and Nehemiah. In those books are extensive genealogical records. The fact that there were careful genealogical records proves that not only were the northern Israelites part of the restoration, but that they kept records of their families and they knew which tribe they were from. Ezra 2:2 starts the records of "the number of the men of the people of ISRAEL." Ezra 2:59 states that people had specific genealogical records not only to which of the northern tribes they were part of, but even as to which household: "identify their father's house or their genealogy, whether they were of Israel." Those who had records but were not perfectly documented were disqualified and had to wait for supernatural verification by the urim and thumin (should they ever arise). This proves how meticulous and well documented were the great majority of the family records (Ezra 2:62-63). Ezra 2:70 again speaks of "all" Israel dwelling in Judah after the restoration of Ezra and Nehemiah.

Ezra 6:16 and 21 speaks specifically of "the children of Israel who had returned from the captivity." Ezra 7:7, 9:1, 10:1 and 10:25 speak of the problem that the Israelites had with inter-marriage.

Nehemiah 7:7 to 73 repeat the genealogy of the Israelite tribes that were recorded in Ezra 2. Nehemiah 9:2, 11:3 and 11:20 speak of "the rest of Israel.in all the cities of Judah." Nehemiah 13:3 speaks of separating Gentiles so as not to confuse the genealogical records of Israel.

The Testimony of Anna (Luke 2)
In Luke 2:36 the prophetess Anna is listed as coming from the tribe of Asher, one of the most northern and least populated tribes of Israel. In other words, we have a clear statement in the New Testament that people who were considered Jews in the time of Jesus included people from the northern ten tribes of Israel, and that they had genealogical documentation as to which tribe they were from.

How could the tribe of Asher, for instance, be "lost" from 700 years before Jesus, if Anna knew her descendancy from Asher during the time of the New Testament?

Yeshua and the Apostles (Gospels and Acts)
Yeshua ministered all over the land of Israel. He addressed the Jewish people there. In all of His speeches, it is assumed that He is speaking to all the descendants of Israel. Yeshua never mentioned once the possibility that there was some other group or some lost tribe of Israel floating around somewhere. In preaching to the Jews of the first century, Yeshua said that He was called to go to "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matt. 10:6).

In the same way, the apostles addressed the crowds of Jews in the first century with the assumption that they were all the descendants of Israel. In Acts 2:22 Peter turns to the "Jews" living in Jerusalem and refers to them as "men of Israel." Peter concludes his sermon addressing his crowd as "ALL the house of Israel" (Acts 2:36). In other words, in the eyes of Peter, the Jewish people in the first century included all the tribes of Israel. Peter continued this way of addressing the people as all the house of Israel in his other speeches (Acts 3:12, 4:8, 4:10, 4:27, 5:21, 5:31, 5:35, 10:36).

Paul also addressed the Jews of the first century as "men of Israel" (Acts 13:16). He continued to address the Jews as Israelites throughout his messages (Acts 13:23-24, Acts 21:28, Acts 28:20). The twelve disciples were seen to be future leaders to "sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel" (Matt. 19:29).

The Twelve Tribes of James
The letter of James is addressed to "the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad" (James 1:1). He is not speaking of some lost tribes, but rather to the scattered audience of Jewish believers in Jesus of the first century.
The same argument is true as we look at the letter to the Hebrews. The group here called "Hebrews" are not some tribe of Japanese or native Americans, but rather the Jewish people of the first century.

The Remnant of Israel (Romans 9-11)
This argument has specific importance when we look to the promises of the restoration of the believing remnant of Israel, spoken of in the book of Romans, chapter 9 to 11. Here Paul expresses his prayer for the children of Israel to be saved (Romans 9:1-4, 10:1-4). This remnant that is to be restored is the biblical remnant of Israel that fulfills the prophecies. They are the same people who rejected Yeshua in the first century. It was not some lost tribe that rejected Him, but rather the Jews living in Israel at that time.

Paul states that God has not forsaken the people of Israel (Romans 11:1). There is a remnant of Israel by grace (Romans 11:5). What Israel did not achieve the elect have received (Romans 11:7). The falling away of Israel has meant the salvation of the Gentile nations (Romans 11:11). Their restoration will be the resurrection of the dead (Romans 11:12,15).

The whole drama of Romans 9-11 only makes sense if it is speaking about the people we know today as the Jewish people. If someone thinks that this is referring to Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses, or to Christian Zionists, or to some other native people group, the whole meaning of the passage is lost. That viewpoint would destroy the promises of God to Israel, the purpose of evangelism in Israel, and the meaning of the reconciliation between Israel and the church in the end times.(fiftybagger-I do not subscribe to this last point)

The Cultic View
It is not a coincidence that so many cults have come to the conclusion that they are one of the "lost" ten tribes of Israel. That viewpoint is confusing to their members and incorrect according to scriptures. That theology is dangerous and deceptive as we try to understand the prophecies of the restoration of Israel leading up to the second coming of Messiah Yeshua (Jesus).

[7th trump]

Scriptural proof that ten tribes of Israel were never lost (and didn't develop amnesia about who they are).

Actually, the ancient tribes of Israel have never been lost, except spiritually. Isaiah prophesied that, although the Hebrew people would be scattered among the Gentiles, their nationality would never be lost, nor their identity unknown (Isaiah 61:9).

Jews have always been recognizable as Jews and have never lost their Jewishness. However, they are indeed lost spiritually, as the prophets described (Isaiah 29:10-14). Over 2500 years ago, God told us that the political revival of Israel would be a spiritually dead revival until a later time when God would breathe life into His people (Ezekial 37:8-9). The Lord also promised to regather all the Jews and unite His beloved people into one great kingdom at Messiah's return (Isaiah 11:11-13).

The claim that the Jews of today are descended only from the southern tribes (Judah and Benjamin) that remained loyal to Solomon's son Rehoboam has no Biblical support. To the contrary, Scripture actually refutes this claim.

After Solomon's death, the ten northern tribes set up a separate kingdom (Israel) under King Jeroboam, who was not of the House of David (1 Kings 12:20). During the time of the divided kingdom, many Israelites in the Northern Kingdom identified themselves with the House of David (2 Chronicles 11:14-17; 15:9; 19:4). The terms "Israel," "Judah," and "Jacob" became interchangeable (Isaiah 1:1-3; 48:1; 2 Chronicles 19:1; 21:2).

Judah's godly kings (particularly Asa, Jehoshaphat, Hezekiah, and Josiah) addressed all twelve tribes and offered up sacrifices on their behalf (2 Chronicles 15:8-15; 19:4; 29:24; 35:18). This is the point where British Israelites err most seriously. They wrongly insist that the two-kingdom division between Israel and Judah never ceased. History shows otherwise.

The Assyrians took the Northern Kingdom captive in 722 BC, and the Southern Kingdom was captured by Babylon in 586 BC. Following both invasions, the Jews were deported to the same general geographical area (modern-day Iraq and Iran). Because Babylon and Assyria ruled largely the same territory, the Israelite and Judean captives commingled. Both groups lived as captives under similar conditions and during this time, the divisions, enmity, and rivalry between Judah and Israel ended. Jeremiah says the captors made no distinction between Israel and Judah (Jeremiah 50:33). Later, the Book of Esther records that the Jewish people were scattered throughout the Persian Empire, and that Esther (along with her uncle Mordecai) thwarted Haman's plot to destroy all the Jews. They not only survived, but they attained some prominence and prosperity in those regions of the empire. They did not need to migrate to Russia, Eastern Europe, or distant parts of Asia.

After the captivity, when Ezra and Nehemiah led the dispersed Jews back to the land of Israel from Persia, those who returned were called "all Israel" or "the children of Israel" or "the seed of Israel" (Ezra 6:16-17; 8:25, 35; 10:1; Nehemiah 7:73; 9:2). Artaxerxes' decree specified that "all they of the people of Israel" were free to return to Jerusalem (Ezra 7:13). Surely no one could argue that the ten tribes were excluded from that return from captivity. In fact, the evidence shows that some returned from all of the tribes-while many remained in positions of influence in Persia.

In 458 BC, Artaxerxes allowed Ezra the scribe and the Children of Israel to return to Zion with the priests and Levites (Ezra 7:7, 13; 8:35). Ezra's caravan of over 1800 families was made up of all the "children of Israel," with no mention of tribal distinctions. The Book of Nehemiah likewise reveals that both kingdoms participated in the restoration. The word "Jew" is used eleven times and "Israel" twenty-two times, referring to the same people.

After return from captivity, "Jew" and "Israelite" became synonymous terms, referring to the physical descendants of Abraham through Jacob. Forgetting earlier national differences, purity of the bloodline was the critical issue. Ezra required that all Gentile wives be put away (10:2-11).

The returned remnant grew in numbers during Greek rule (330-167 BC), the Maccabean period (167-63 BC), and Herodian-Roman rule (beginning in 63 BC). By the first century, "the Jews" were a relatively large nation numbering in the millions. Additionally, more Jews lived in Diaspora settlements than in the Promised Land. Those in the dispersion still looked to Jerusalem as their national center, cherished the same history and traditions, grew up under the same laws and institutions, and anticipated a common future.

In the New Testament, there is no hint of any "lost tribes of Israel." In fact, the term "Hebrew" was used interchangeably with the terms "Israelite" and "Jew." For example, Nicodemus is referred to as a "ruler of the Jews" and a "master of Israel" (John 3:1, 10). In Mark 15:26 and 15:32, Yeshua is called "King of the Jews" and "King of Israel." Paul (a Benjamite) calls himself a Jew in Acts 21:39 and 22:3, an Israelite in Romans 11:1, and a Hebrew in Philippians 3:5. We might also note that Anna the prophetess, mentioned in the book of Luke, was of Asher, one of the purportedly, "lost tribes."

Paul also spoke of all twelve tribes having hope in the resurrection (Acts 26:7). James, Yeshua's brother, addresses his epistle to "all the twelve tribes scattered abroad" (1:1). Peter spoke to the "men of Judea," addressing them as "fellow Israelites" (Acts 2: 14, 22).

In Scripture, we see that "Hebrew," "Israelite," and "Jew" all refer to the physical descendants of the patriarch Jacob. There is a very important reason why these three names are used synonymously in Scripture: to emphasize that all of Israel - all twelve tribes - were and still are God's covenant people, sharing the same promises, blessings, curses, and destiny.

The Jewish historian Josephus, writing nearly one hundred years after Messiah, knew that the ten Israelite tribes were not "lost." He said these ". . . tribes are beyond the river Euphrates till now, and are an immense multitude, not to be estimated by numbers" (Antiquities of the Jews, Book XI, Chapter 5, Section 2). He stated that the Israelites remained "beyond the Euphrates" east of Jerusalem, not west in Britain or the Americas as British Israelism argues. Also, we have much extra biblical evidence of an ongoing Jewish presence in the region of Babylon.

In his commentary on the Book of James, Jerome, the translator of the Latin Vulgate, remarked that the ten tribes were still in Persia in his day (AD 331-420). As late as AD 1835, a medical missionary, Dr. Asahel Grant, placed the ten tribes in the region of Assyria and Media or modern-day Iraq and Iran. In very recent times (after the Islamic revolution in Iran), the Ayatollah Khomeini expelled hundreds of Persian Jews, who resettled in America.

So, where are the Tribes of Israel now? God's Word answers this question so clearly that no one should go astray. God declared through Moses that Israel would be plucked from the Promised Land and scattered to the ends of the earth (Deuteronomy 28:63-64). With the Assyrian-Babylonian captivities, God fulfilled this word, and did so again after Rome took Jerusalem in AD 70. But despite unbelievable persecution and tribulation, a remnant of Israel has always survived with their Jewish identity intact.

God said He would return Israel to their land (Deuteronomy 30:1-5), and now He has done so. With the reestablishment of Israel in 1948, we saw an amazing fulfillment of prophecy. How many other nations have been conquered and scattered, only to reoccupy their ancient territory and gain statehood thousands of years later? Who, witnessing Hitler's madness during World War II, would imagine the Jews could survive and reestablish themselves in the Holy Land? But as was divinely foretold, Israel would endure and become one nation (Ezekial 36:24; 37: 16-22; Jeremiah 23:8; 31:1).

It is this national and religious identity that is the strongest extra biblical evidence against these theories. Wherever the Children of Israel dwelt, they were to keep - and whenever possible, did keep - the Sabbath Day holy (Exodus 31:16-17). Have the British ever kept the seventh-day Sabbath? The Jews were to abide ". . . many days without a king and without a prince, . . ." (Hosea 3:4). This can be said of the Jews, especially after AD 70 - but certainly never of the British, many of whom pride themselves on their royal family. The Jews were commanded to keep the Passover and Feast of Unleavened Bread. Have the British or Americans, as a nation, ever observed the Passover?

Both the Bible and history make it clear that the Anglo-Saxons and the Israelites are completely different peoples, whose different customs, legends, living patterns, and names reveal separate origins. It does no good to confuse the issue with the racial-transference ideas that British Israelism, Mormonism, Or the Two House Theory propose. These doctrines distort Scripture and history, and tend to stimulate racism - often against Jews. Such theories are devilish distractions designed to divert our attention from the most important issue; namely, that each person's eternal destiny depends not on racial descent or nationality, but only on being "in Messiah."

Paul tells us in Galatians 3:28 that there are only two significant classes of people: believers (the saved) and unbelievers (the unsaved). All other distinctions are unimportant to God insofar as salvation is concerned. Nonetheless, the New Testament distinguishes the Jews from other unbelievers (1 Corinthians 10:32) in order to emphasize that God has not forgotten His unique relationship with the Jews - nor indeed can He. God still loves the Jews and has a special plan for them (Isaiah 49: 14-16). It is unscriptural and simply wrong to take the promises that God gave to Israel and apply them to other people.

The Bible assures us that God will fulfill every vow He made to the Jews: ". . . the gifts and calling of God are without repentance" (Romans 11:29). God told Abraham, ". . . I will bless them that bless you, and curse him that curses you, and in you shall all families of the earth be blessed" (Genesis 12:3). This promise to Abraham, and to the chosen descendants through Jacob, has never been repealed. Indeed, God's vow has been fulfilled in history so many times that, if men were logical, self-interest alone would spur everyone to bless the Jews - and anti-Semitism would have disappeared entirely!

There are those who may continue to curse Israel. But our responsibility, as members of the Body of Messiah, is to bless the Jews - and especially to share the Gospel with them. Regardless of how our efforts are received, we can rest in the knowledge that God's Word shall not return void; it shall not return without accomplishing what God desires and without succeeding in the matter for which it was sent (Isaiah 55:11).

http://www.foundationsmin.org/studies/tentribes.htm

Green, you and your husband need to stop with the cut and paste bull and just read what the Bible says instead of listen to half truths.
You obviously dont know squat about the parable of the fig tree that Jesus said to learn if you think in 1948 the lost tribes were found.

[Quantum]

Green, you and your husband need to stop with the cut and paste bull and just read what the Bible says instead of listen to half truths.
You obviously dont know squat about the parable of the fig tree that Jesus said to learn if you think in 1948 the lost tribes were found.


Don't be their chump, 7th Trump. These two are Judeophilic ideologues. They are not interested in the truth. Just ignore them. "Arguing" with them is like arguing with Abraham Foxman.

[greenbear]

I've noticed that Identity/neo-Nazi individuals call anyone a judaizer who disagrees with their sick race-exclusive "gospel" of hate towards Jews, and non-white races. Let me explain what judaizing is because you seem to be confused on this point, as well. Judaizers are those who try to bring Christians back under the law.

My husband and I are not judaizers. We are grace believers, we are actually the opposite of judaizers who try to bring the Christian back under the old covenant, with works like Sabbath-keeping, keeping Jewish feasts, etc. It is ironic that Identity calls biblical Christians judaizers because Identity is actually an extreme form of judaizing. The truth is that Identity doesn't just teach that a Christian has to keep Laws that were given to the children of Israel, to be saved, Identity teaches that a person has to be physical Israel to be saved. So, Identity is confused about both the new covenant of grace that the Church is under, and the identity of physical Israel.

I would fight every bit as hard against heretics like John Hagee as I have against Identity heretics. Hagee teaches that Christians should not evangelize Jews because they have their own covenant with God that they are saved under today. That is a heretical teaching because today there is no way for Jew or gentile to be saved apart from Christ. The Hebrew Roots and Christian Zionism heresies are a much bigger problem than Identity because they are more insidious and subtle, so they take in uninformed Christians more easily. All but the most simple of people can see the moral repugnance and spiritual pride of Identity teachings, whereas the spiritual pride of Hebrew Roots teaching is not as obvious to many people.

If anyone is interested, I started a thread some time ago about the Hebrew Roots movement.

http://gold-silver.us/forum/religion-and-philosophy/dr-scott-johnson-hebrew-rootsmessianic-christian-zionism-warning/



edit: spelling

[7th trump]

I've noticed that Identity/neo-Nazi individuals call anyone a judiazer who disagrees with their sick race-exclusive "gospel" of hate towards Jews, and non-white races. Let me explain what judiazing is because you seem to be confused on this point, as well. Judiaizers are those who try to bring Christians back under the law.

My husband and I are not judiazers. We are grace believers, we are actually the opposite of judiazers who try to bring the Christian back under the old covenant, with works like Sabbath-keeping, keeping Jewish feasts, etc. It is ironic that Identity calls biblical Christians judiazers because Identity is actually an extreme form of judiazing. The truth is that Identity doesn't just teach that a Christian has to keep Laws that were given to the children of Israel, to be saved, Identity teaches that a person has to be physical Israel to be saved. So, Identity is confused about both the new covenant of grace that the Church is under, and the identity of physical Israel.

I would fight every bit as hard against heretics like John Hagee as I have against Identity heretics. Hagee teaches that Christians should not evangelize Jews because they have their own covenant with God that they are saved under today. That is a heretical teaching because today there is no way for Jew or gentile to be saved apart from Christ. The Hebrew Roots and Christian Zionism heresies are a much bigger problem than Identity because they are more insidious and subtle, so they take in uninformed Christians more easily. All but the most simple of people can see the moral repugnance and spiritual pride of Identity teachings, whereas the spiritual pride of Hebrew Roots teaching is not as obvious to many people.

If anyone is interested, I started a thread some time ago about the Hebrew Roots movement.

http://gold-silver.us/forum/religion-and-philosophy/dr-scott-johnson-hebrew-rootsmessianic-christian-zionism-warning/





The problem with nazi's is that they realize an enemy, they see it, but dont understand that the enemy is an imposter passing themselves off as the real jews. This causes a lot of problems. Heck, even Jesus warns us about the jews who are not jews.
I'm not defending nazi's, but I've never heard of nazi's putting negroes or none whites in concentration camps just because they felt nonwhites were lower. Rommel had north Africa in his hand and no concentration camps were ever built. In fact there are pictures of smiling Africans filling up German tanks under Rommels command.
Hilter took France and yet left the french people alone. They were occupied, but the french people themselves were not prosecuted or sent to concentration camps. Hitler is quoted saying : I will not invade England as they are my brothers and sister but he did say he'd bomb them and he did.
Hitler was wrong for murdering as he didnt have any right playingGod. Everyone is offered salvation, even satans children can follow Jesus if they want and Jesus will take them in, after all God created them. Did not jesus after being cruxified go to prison where the people of Noahs time were held captive to allow them the same salvation through Jesus? Yes he did and then resurected three days later.
Hitler didnt have any right to take the opportunity of salvation away by murder. We all have right up to the last second to accept Jesus.

I dont care what you want to say about the white race green, but the white race is the race Jesus came through. Its a known fact that Jesus's uncle, Joseph of Aramathia, Marry's brother, was an English tin trader and owned tin mines on the coast of England (they are still there today). He and Jesus, as a young boy, would visit the tin mines on occasion. This is factual history.

[Quantum]

My husband and I are not judaizers.


No, you're Judeophiles, equally bad.

How much work do you do to oppose the Satanic "State of Israel" greenbear? How much have you done to support Palestinian Christians under the devilish boot of your "Jewish" friends?

[messianicdruid]

These things are being adjudicated as we breath. Soon the inheritors of the Birth Right will join with the Holder of The Scepter and the Kingdom of God will begin filling the Earth.

Many have made claims to the Rulership of this planet, right of Kings and all that pap. They have failed in the basis of inheritance which is not blood but, being in the One who is the fulfillment of ALL prophecy, which they have twisted and ignored at their peril.

Almighty God is healing the breach, not man. That is the point all here are missing. The Two sticks will be made one. Those who reject the One who offered up His life a ransom for many, His own {He came to His own and they received Him not} and all the other races God hath placed on this piece of dirt, in other words whosoever will.; They have stated plainly "we will not have this man to reign over us". Fortunately they do not speak for all their people, each one can decide on his own if he will be free.

Let the warning go forth, Flee from Jerusalem, that hell hole that kills the prophets, and saws asunder those who breath the Word of God.

[messianicdruid]

"A bastard is one who is born of incest or adultery."

Adultery is the mixing of two things which are not the same. Mixing milk with chocolate syrup adulterates the milk and the chocolate syrup. It creates a new thing. In this case a new good thing. Incest was the mixing of things that were too much the same.

Mixing motor oil and water adulterates both the water and the oil. Think about the gulf coast. Not a good thing. After three or 10 generations they will separate back out and can be used again for their original uses.

Being part of the congregation was being part of those who enforced the rules, which included understanding the rules and living them out in your personal lives, and then the lives of the families. These things did not happen in a corner.

People who wanted to assimilate into Israel were not allowed into the congregation, but were allowed to worship, serve and pray to YHWH. My House shall be a house of Prayer to ALL people. Many of those who came out of Egypt with Israel, were called simply "the mixed multitude". IOW the children of Israelites who had procreated with others, but still would prefer to become Israelites than stay in wicked Egypt and be slaves to Pharoah. We all choose to be free or choose to be slaves. Choose you this day who you will serve.

Marrying a non-Israelite put your progeny in the non-congregation category to see if they would also break the law and remain outside the congregation. Didn't mean you could not live there and serve the nation as {with} Israelites and serve the King. They were not allowed to discriminate against faithful foreigners. It's just that the non_Israelites were not permitted to do certain things that those "PERFECT IN THEIR GENERATIONS" such As Noah, were permitted too do. They {temporarily} had a different calling.

[greenbear]

Thanks, Grad. It's so good to be understood. I am a Judeophile in the sense that I love the Jews, and want to see them come to Christ. I also take joy in knowing that one day the Jews that remain alive at the end of the time of Jacob's trouble will accept Jesus Christ as their Messiah. God says it, and I believe it. I am not a Judeophile in the sense of their religion of Judaism which blasphemes Christ and holds the leaven of the scribes and pharisees above the Bible with their filthy Talmud. The existence of the Jews as a distinct race that has survived millennia without a homeland, and who are being regathered into their land in unbelief, just as the scriptures foretold, is a sign to the world of the truth of the Bible. Instead of discerning signs of the times, the nations will hate the Jews and divide their land, and hunt them down and kill them. God said they would do this, and he tells us what their reward will be for persecuting the apple of his eye.

Revelation 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

[LuckyStrike]

Ok clearly I do not understand CI

Im glad you cleared a bit of it up for me.
and Im glad you agree that all can be saved though faith in Christ.
That is the important thing.


Indeed!




Where did I call anyone names?

Sometimes I do get angry...but I get over it pretty quickly...thats be to God for that :)


"Are you stupid"?

I don't hold grudges, so it's OK. 8)



I just wanna clear that up....I was asking ......Not calling.... :)

It was a rhetorical question...just like I think Jesus was asking the Samaritan woman....get it now? :)





That kind of passive aggressive crap gets old pretty quick. If you think someone is dumb call them dumb, don't try and mask an insult then backpedal when pressed about it.

[Occamsrazor]

Ok clearly I do not understand CI

Im glad you cleared a bit of it up for me.
and Im glad you agree that all can be saved though faith in Christ.
That is the important thing.


Indeed!




Where did I call anyone names?

Sometimes I do get angry...but I get over it pretty quickly...thats be to God for that :)


"Are you stupid"?

I don't hold grudges, so it's OK. 8)



I just wanna clear that up....I was asking ......Not calling.... :)

It was a rhetorical question...just like I think Jesus was asking the Samaritan woman....get it now? :)





That kind of passive aggressive crap gets old pretty quick. If you think someone is dumb call them dumb, don't try and mask an insult then back peddle when pressed about it.


surely you mean backpedal?

[StackerKen]

"Are you stupid"?

I don't hold grudges, so it's OK. 8)




I just wanna clear that up....I was asking ......Not calling.... :)[/b]

It was a rhetorical question...just like I think Jesus was asking the Samaritan woman....get it now? :)






That kind of passive aggressive crap gets old pretty quick. If you think someone is dumb call them dumb, don't try and mask an insult then backpedal when pressed about it.


No I was Not backpedaling a bit. There was no need for me to backpedal.

How bout you don't try to read my mind?


Jesus did not think the Samaritan woman was a dog. The Israelites and his disciples may have...but not Jesus.

And I did/do not think Quantum is stupid......a bit Blind maybe....lol...not stupid though..

[7th trump]

"A bastard is one who is born of incest or adultery."

Adultery is the mixing of two things which are not the same. Mixing milk with chocolate syrup adulterates the milk and the chocolate syrup. It creates a new thing. In this case a new good thing. Incest was the mixing of things that were too much the same.

Mixing motor oil and water adulterates both the water and the oil. Think about the gulf coast. Not a good thing. After three or 10 generations they will separate back out and can be used again for their original uses.

Being part of the congregation was being part of those who enforced the rules, which included understanding the rules and living them out in your personal lives, and then the lives of the families. These things did not happen in a corner.

People who wanted to assimilate into Israel were not allowed into the congregation, but were allowed to worship, serve and pray to YHWH. My House shall be a house of Prayer to ALL people. Many of those who came out of Egypt with Israel, were called simply "the mixed multitude". IOW the children of Israelites who had procreated with others, but still would prefer to become Israelites than stay in wicked Egypt and be slaves to Pharoah. We all choose to be free or choose to be slaves. Choose you this day who you will serve.

Marrying a non-Israelite put your progeny in the non-congregation category to see if they would also break the law and remain outside the congregation. Didn't mean you could not live there and serve the nation as {with} Israelites and serve the King. They were not allowed to discriminate against faithful foreigners. It's just that the non_Israelites were not permitted to do certain things that those "PERFECT IN THEIR GENERATIONS" such As Noah, were permitted too do. They {temporarily} had a different calling.

A bastard is one with no father.

[messianicdruid]

Can you provide an example?

[messianicdruid]

Perhaps you mean daddy {papa - abba}, instead of father.

[greenbear]

"A bastard is one who is born of incest or adultery."

Adultery is the mixing of two things which are not the same. Mixing milk with chocolate syrup adulterates the milk and the chocolate syrup. It creates a new thing. In this case a new good thing. Incest was the mixing of things that were too much the same.

Mixing motor oil and water adulterates both the water and the oil. Think about the gulf coast. Not a good thing. After three or 10 generations they will separate back out and can be used again for their original uses.

Being part of the congregation was being part of those who enforced the rules, which included understanding the rules and living them out in your personal lives, and then the lives of the families. These things did not happen in a corner.

People who wanted to assimilate into Israel were not allowed into the congregation, but were allowed to worship, serve and pray to YHWH. My House shall be a house of Prayer to ALL people. Many of those who came out of Egypt with Israel, were called simply "the mixed multitude". IOW the children of Israelites who had procreated with others, but still would prefer to become Israelites than stay in wicked Egypt and be slaves to Pharoah. We all choose to be free or choose to be slaves. Choose you this day who you will serve.

Marrying a non-Israelite put your progeny in the non-congregation category to see if they would also break the law and remain outside the congregation. Didn't mean you could not live there and serve the nation as {with} Israelites and serve the King. They were not allowed to discriminate against faithful foreigners. It's just that the non_Israelites were not permitted to do certain things that those "PERFECT IN THEIR GENERATIONS" such As Noah, were permitted too do. They {temporarily} had a different calling.

A bastard is one with no father.


Everyone has a father. A mamser, or bastard, is one born unlawfully, whether out of marriage, or in forbidden marriage (Which only applied to Jews in the OT. God couldn't care less whether gentiles intermarry) , or in adultery.

[7th trump]

"A bastard is one who is born of incest or adultery."

Adultery is the mixing of two things which are not the same. Mixing milk with chocolate syrup adulterates the milk and the chocolate syrup. It creates a new thing. In this case a new good thing. Incest was the mixing of things that were too much the same.

Mixing motor oil and water adulterates both the water and the oil. Think about the gulf coast. Not a good thing. After three or 10 generations they will separate back out and can be used again for their original uses.

Being part of the congregation was being part of those who enforced the rules, which included understanding the rules and living them out in your personal lives, and then the lives of the families. These things did not happen in a corner.

People who wanted to assimilate into Israel were not allowed into the congregation, but were allowed to worship, serve and pray to YHWH. My House shall be a house of Prayer to ALL people. Many of those who came out of Egypt with Israel, were called simply "the mixed multitude". IOW the children of Israelites who had procreated with others, but still would prefer to become Israelites than stay in wicked Egypt and be slaves to Pharoah. We all choose to be free or choose to be slaves. Choose you this day who you will serve.

Marrying a non-Israelite put your progeny in the non-congregation category to see if they would also break the law and remain outside the congregation. Didn't mean you could not live there and serve the nation as {with} Israelites and serve the King. They were not allowed to discriminate against faithful foreigners. It's just that the non_Israelites were not permitted to do certain things that those "PERFECT IN THEIR GENERATIONS" such As Noah, were permitted too do. They {temporarily} had a different calling.

A bastard is one with no father.


Everyone has a father. A mamser, or bastard, is one born unlawfully, whether out of marriage, or in forbidden marriage (Which only applied to Jews in the OT. God couldn't care less whether gentiles intermarry) , or in adultery.

Oh...................do I hear racism in those words?

[greenbear]

God was concerned with the line of the Messiah. He is not generally concerned with gentile lines, because the Messiah did not come through gentile lines. May I suggest that you read the Bible?

[RJB]

God was concerned with the line of the Messiah. It was also one of the many fulfilled prophesy.

[LuckyStrike]

God was concerned with the line of the Messiah. He is not generally concerned with gentile lines, because the Messiah did not come through gentile lines. May I suggest that you read the Bible?


Gentile being translated of course from the greek "ethnos" which means race tribe or nation. It has nothing to do with non Israelites.

I say this of course not to the quoted poster but to those who might be deceived or confused thereby.

[greenbear]

Whatever your teacher says, Nordic Berserker. The changing of the meaning of words is standard fare in your circles. As are the really dumb maps about ten lost tribes crossing the Caucausis mountains 3,700 years ago, maps that have no basis in reality, they are made up fantasies from the imaginings of corrupt men's hearts.

[LuckyStrike]

Whatever your teacher says, Nordic Berserker. The changing of the meaning of words is standard fare in your circles. As are the really dumb maps about ten lost tribes crossing the Caucausis mountains 3,700 years ago, maps that have no basis in reality, they are made up fantasies from the imaginings of corrupt men's hearts.


Well I'll give you this gb, its sure easy to win a debate when one person literally denies reality. That IS what the word ethnos means in greek. Not maybe, kind of, used to or whatever, the word ethnos means race tribe or nation. Now you can listen to what you have been told, or you can use your own brain to do your research.

As I pointed out though because I expected some ill conceived remark coming from you (as is the only weapon of those who are trying to defend the undefendable) I don't point this out for your sake, but for the hundreds who will read it in the future, and they can decide who uses logic and reason to back up their views and who babbles on often incoherently.

The passage below is in the Scriptures for a reason likewise I use it for a sig.

[7th trump]

Whatever your teacher says, Nordic Berserker. The changing of the meaning of words is standard fare in your circles. As are the really dumb maps about ten lost tribes crossing the Caucausis mountains 3,700 years ago, maps that have no basis in reality, they are made up fantasies from the imaginings of corrupt men's hearts.

Care to explain why or how whites are called caucasions?

[StackerKen]

I can't seem to find anything about the Caucasian mountains in my bible.

Can you show me where to look?

[TPTB]

Race n.

1. A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.
2. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.
3. A genealogical line; a lineage.
4. Humans considered as a group.
5. Biology.
1. An interbreeding, usually geographically isolated population of organisms differing from other populations of the same species in the frequency of hereditary traits. A race that has been given formal taxonomic recognition is known as a subspecies.
2. A breed or strain, as of domestic animals.
6. A distinguishing or characteristic quality, such as the flavor of a wine.

[French, from Old French, from Old Italian razza, race, lineage.]

USAGE NOTE The notion of race is nearly as problematic from a scientific point of view as it is from a social one. European physical anthropologists of the 17th and 18th centuries proposed various systems of racial classifications based on such observable characteristics as skin color, hair type, body proportions, and skull measurements, essentially codifying the perceived differences among broad geographic populations of humans. The traditional terms for these populations-Caucasoid (or Caucasian), Mongoloid, Negroid, and in some systems Australoid-are now controversial in both technical and nontechnical usage, and in some cases they may well be considered offensive. (Caucasian does retain a certain currency in American English, but it is used almost exclusively to mean "white" or "European" rather than "belonging to the Caucasian race," a group that includes a variety of peoples generally categorized as nonwhite.) The biological aspect of race is described today not in observable physical features but rather in such genetic characteristics as blood groups and metabolic processes, and the groupings indicated by these factors seldom coincide very neatly with those put forward by earlier physical anthropologists. Citing this and other points-such as the fact that a person who is considered black in one society might be nonblack in another-many cultural anthropologists now consider race to be more a social or mental construct than an objective biological fact.

[goldmonkey]

Race is NOT a "social or mental construct", TPTB.

Let me guess, you also believe the differences between the sexes are social or mental constructs?

Cultural Bolshevism 101.

[Horn]

Race is NOT a "social or mental construct", TPTB.

New races can be formed naturally within a generations time, just look at the illegal aliens. ;D

[LuckyStrike]

I can't seem to find anything about the Caucasian mountains in my bible.

Can you show me where to look?


Despite what your preacher tells you the whole of history is not contained in the Bible, nor does the Bible contain all of the Scriptures that it should.

I don't see anything about this website in the Bible does it exist?

[StackerKen]

I can't seem to find anything about the Caucasian mountains in my bible.

Can you show me where to look?


Despite what your preacher tells you the whole of history is not contained in the Bible, nor does the Bible contain all of the Scriptures that it should.

I don't see anything about this website in the Bible does it exist?



I'm am confident that the bible has everything in it that God wanted in it.

If you don't, thats your problem...I have faith in Him and His Word.

[LuckyStrike]

I can't seem to find anything about the Caucasian mountains in my bible.

Can you show me where to look?


Despite what your preacher tells you the whole of history is not contained in the Bible, nor does the Bible contain all of the Scriptures that it should.

I don't see anything about this website in the Bible does it exist?



I'm am confident that the bible has everything in it that God wanted in it.

If you don't, thats your problem...I have faith in Him and His Word.




So your fine with kicking the Apocrypha out of the KJV?

[LuckyStrike]

This passage came into my mind today while thinking on this thread and some of it's participants.

8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

[StackerKen]

I can't seem to find anything about the Caucasian mountains in my bible.

Can you show me where to look?


Despite what your preacher tells you the whole of history is not contained in the Bible, nor does the Bible contain all of the Scriptures that it should.

I don't see anything about this website in the Bible does it exist?



I'm am confident that the bible has everything in it that God wanted in it.

If you don't, thats your problem...I have faith in Him and His Word.




So your fine with kicking the Apocrypha out of the KJV?


Yep...im perfectly fine with it. :)

[LuckyStrike]

Yep...im perfectly fine with it. :)


Cool.

18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

[StackerKen]

Nordic are implying that ^ will be my fate because Im a ok with the way todays bibles are constructed?

[LuckyStrike]

Nordic are implying that ^ will be my fate because Im a ok with the way todays bibles are constructed?


I think it's wrong to add or subtract from the Bible but I guess as long as a certain number of pastors say it's cool it's probably fine, God loves everybody anyways so mox nix add a little here (Mark 7:19 NIV comes to mind, God loves everyone, say a magic prayer and your in like flint, God loves the sinner hates the sin etc etc.) subtract alittle there (apocrypha, the very name of God) whose gonna know?


/s

[StackerKen]

Nordic; Are you sure that verse you pasted ,

19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Is not just referring to the book of Revelation ?


What about "Divine providence" ?

I believe God is sovereign

Im pretty sure that the KJV is the way God wants it to be.

If Not...there isn't much I can do about it...now is there?

Im sure there is enough info in there for me. :)

[StackerKen]

I'm done nordic...I don't wanna fight with you.