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Large Sarge
2nd May 2010, 04:08 AM
Why The Gun In Civilization? - Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret) "An armed society is a polite society."
http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/ccw/37877-why-gun-civilization.html ^ | Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)

Posted on Thursday, June 14, 2007 12:11:34 PM by InfantryMarine

Edited on Monday, June 18, 2007 7:54:56 PM by Admin Moderator. [history]

Why The Gun In Civilization?

By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)

Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force.

If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.

The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single gay guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat--it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed.

People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser. People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.

The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

It removes force from the equation...and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

Spectrism
2nd May 2010, 04:53 AM
When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

It removes force from the equation...and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

Yeah, well... BS.

Force is NEVER removed from the equation. Its threat and its use are always involved with human interactions. This boy thinks he can strap on a gun and suddenly he has a superman outfit, even immune to krytponite? Delusional.

Large Sarge
2nd May 2010, 04:58 AM
When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

It removes force from the equation...and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

Yeah, well... BS.

Force is NEVER removed from the equation. Its threat and its use are always involved with human interactions. This boy thinks he can strap on a gun and suddenly he has a superman outfit, even immune to krytponite? Delusional.


you seem to be missing the theme

he said it "equalizes the force" (over and over throughout the article, comparing an 80 year old woman with a weightlifter)

etc

you never remove the force from society, you equalize it, and therefore it is much less likely to be used.

this goes with the original constitution, and the militia defense, it was always compared to the porcupine defense

everyone was well armed, so no invader would dare attack.

because like attacking a porcupine, you would get hundreds of sharp barbs in you, even schoolkids know you leave the porcupine alone

a well armed society, is a very polite society

Spectrism
2nd May 2010, 05:05 AM
When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

It removes force from the equation...and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

Yeah, well... BS.

Force is NEVER removed from the equation. Its threat and its use are always involved with human interactions. This boy thinks he can strap on a gun and suddenly he has a superman outfit, even immune to krytponite? Delusional.


you seem to be missing the theme

he said it "equalizes the force" (over and over throughout the article, comparing an 80 year old woman with a weightlifter)

etc

you never remove the force from socirty, you equlize it, and therefore it is much less likely to be used.

this goes with the original constitution, and the militia defense, it was always compared to the porcupine defense

everyone was well armed, so no invader would dare attack.

because like attacking a porcupine, you would get hundreds of sharp barbs in you, even schoolkids know you leave the porcupine alone

a well armed society, is a very polite society




I didn't miss anything.

The assaulter would learn very quickly to use cunning or superior firepower when attacking the proud clown displaying his sidearm. The "theme" of the "InfantryMarine" was that brandishing a weapon makes the bad guys be nice. That is just stupid. Bad guys are nice when they are dead.

My point is not against armament, but against proud displays of capability which will be met with something other than a frontal attack.

Large Sarge
2nd May 2010, 05:13 AM
When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

It removes force from the equation...and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

Yeah, well... BS.

Force is NEVER removed from the equation. Its threat and its use are always involved with human interactions. This boy thinks he can strap on a gun and suddenly he has a superman outfit, even immune to krytponite? Delusional.


you seem to be missing the theme

he said it "equalizes the force" (over and over throughout the article, comparing an 80 year old woman with a weightlifter)

etc

you never remove the force from socirty, you equlize it, and therefore it is much less likely to be used.

this goes with the original constitution, and the militia defense, it was always compared to the porcupine defense

everyone was well armed, so no invader would dare attack.

because like attacking a porcupine, you would get hundreds of sharp barbs in you, even schoolkids know you leave the porcupine alone

a well armed society, is a very polite society




I didn't miss anything.

The assaulter would learn very quickly to use cunning or superior firepower when attacking the proud clown displaying his sidearm. The "theme" of the "InfantryMarine" was that brandishing a weapon makes the bad guys be nice. That is just stupid. Bad guys are nice when they are dead.

My point is not against armament, but against proud displays of capability which will be met with something other than a frontal attack.


I am not going to argue semantics with you, suffice it to say most crimes fall into "crimes of opportunity" (quick/and or easy)

Most criminals are not as cunning as you believe (zionist jews excepted)

most criminals are lazy and or/ stupid, and very rarely "brave"

even our "brave policemen" are terrified to go into a house with 1 armed person, and they are wearing body armor, kevlar helmets, etc

a well armed society, is a very polite society.

undgrd
2nd May 2010, 05:49 AM
Great Post Sarge! +1

Thanks!

platinumdude
2nd May 2010, 06:47 AM
a well armed society, is a very polite society.


Why did that not happen in the wild west? Or in gangs across america now? It certainly doesn't help our soldiers in Afhganistan. It won't help maintain society when the economy here finally collapses. Though you bet I am armed and will try my best to defend myself when it does collapse.

Spectrism
2nd May 2010, 08:53 AM
a well armed society, is a very polite society.


Why did that not happen in the wild west? Or in gangs across america now? It certainly doesn't help our soldiers in Afhganistan. It won't help maintain society when the economy here finally collapses. Though you bet I am armed and will try my best to defend myself when it does collapse.


Exactly!

The quoted polite society comment is a myth. Polite when face to face meant back-shot or ambushed.

History is loaded with stories about adaptation. Arrows and sword and lances were countered with shields and fortifications. The use of cavalry taught the priciple of interior lines and flank defenses. The advent of gunpowder brought in the destruction of fortifications and the uselessness of shields. Armor was increased to be "bullet proof". Bullets got bigger. Armor got thicker. High exposive anti-armor rounds penetrated the thickest possible armor so layered armor was designed to deflect the heat jet of HEAT rounds and deflect kinetic energy rounds. Tactical nukes made conventional concentrations of man & eguipment dangerous- countering the Soviet tactics. Artillery, naval warfare, air force... EVERYWHERE there is force, there is the evolution of counterforce.

The personal sidearm is important- yes... fully agree. But the principles of surprise, initiative and concentration of forces must be included. A skillful and willing opponent you must always be.

Large Sarge
2nd May 2010, 09:01 AM
a well armed society, is a very polite society.


Why did that not happen in the wild west? Or in gangs across america now? It certainly doesn't help our soldiers in Afhganistan. It won't help maintain society when the economy here finally collapses. Though you bet I am armed and will try my best to defend myself when it does collapse.


I suspect the wild west was not as wild as you imagine (or hollywood makes it)

I mean the O.K. Corral at tombstone is heralded as a "Big event" (numerous movies, legends, etc)

How many folks died?

got shot?

perhaps 5-6 people

everyone carried guns back then, and it was a big deal if a few people got killed.

today almost no one carries guns, and we get murders everynight.

hmmmm.....

its about equalizing force

the thought that someone else has a gun, is enough to slow down a lot of criminals

and we need only look at crime statistics (especially violent crime) in Britain and australia after they outlawed guns.

it went through the roof.

the criminals knew they were the only ones with guns.