Ayan Rand Died Again. Objectivism is Flawed.

[singular_me]

While I still regard Objectivism with a certain interest, I also have to admit that it is flawed. Yes enforced altruism is a destructive drive, no doubt about it..

The flaw, as I see it, rather lies in the assumption that humans will never get rid of "collectivist belief systems" and be able to come up with a form of spirituality enhancing the "self", what would disempower atheism. Rand would be thus proven wrong about religion. Had collectivist belief systems not been the root cause of so many wars, atheism wouldnt be the rising trend it is today, would have remained a minimalistic movement.

I also finsihed to watch the sequel of The Money Masters, The Secret of Oz (posted in the conspiracy forum) which rightfully argues that the satbility of monetary policies rather depends on who is cintrolling the money suplly, fiat or gold it doesnt really matter. The fact is that today most of the gold is in the hands of the very few. Not to mention that we dont know what has happened to all the gold ever extracted from the planet over, say, the last 4000 years. If we take this into account, most gold theories ever drafted would most likely cease to make sense. If we could find out where all the gold has gone, we might discover that gold is not such a precious metal anymore. Just like the diamond industry fooling consumers by concealing production data for the sake of their monopoliy. Same applies to silver of course.

Objectisvism is kinda flawed rather because it systematically assumes that Humans will never be able to expose all the consoiracies out there. If they arent, then the Human species doesnt deserve any mercy. But what if they were?

By extension, Darwin' survival of the fittest would follow the same fate since today masses do not possess all the necessary knowledge to conceive what is good for their very survival. While Rand and Darwin are both correct about survival, they are equally wrong. Dualities at work. Widespread awareness would dramatically shift priorities about what needs to be done as a whole to address rampant deceptions. Shoud people awake, they would forcefully stand up to the ALL current existing societal models... and this would send unprecedented tidal waves whose outcome would lead to a new spiritual human, ready to enforce peace and harmony for the sake of the spiecies. Survival would then rests on spontaneous altruism, but from an individual perspective instead of collectivism. Dualities Principles at work again proving that nothing is neither completely right nor wrong. Ayan Rand would be proven wrong about her anti-altruisn stance.

This to say that any theory that doesnt consider "all the knowledge that is" is therefore inaccurate.

[cortez]

it dosnt take into account the acumulation Karma or practice of compassion as a way to foster kinder force in life.

[TPTB]

I think Rands Objectivism was a long winded excuse for Privately controlled Capitalist Materialism. An important part of the same marketing scam the "The Century of Self" talks about.

Ironic that Rands "Objectivism" came out at the same time the "Rand" Corporation(MIC) was pumping out Game Theory doctrine through the MSM.

Corporate hegemony was dependent upon people becoming material addicts. Consumers of stuff.

A marketing strategy to fabricate the need in a population to buy (mountains of stuff) to fill an emptiness caused by the loss of a sense of connection through spirit, or the loss of God.

Objectivism=Materialism

[Saul Mine]

Ayn Rand countered godless communism by offering godless capitalism. Either way it's still godless.

[Quantum]

Objectivism is Satanism. No surprise, since it came from a Jewess well familiar with the Talmud.

[Book]

Objectivism is Satanism. No surprise, since it came from a Jewess well familiar with the Talmud.


http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Business/images-2/bernard-madoff-portrait.jpg
John Galt

Exactly. Rand wrote a long-winded moralizing novel touting Talmudic exploitation of the goyim:

Looters = Goyim taxpayers

Galt Gulchers = Chosenites who flee to Tel Aviv to avoid criminal prosecution

:oo-->

[singular_me]

some of you cite "exploitation of materialism" ...

if 90% of population fall into the same trap over and over... despite the overhewlming evidence that the elites throughout the ages, regardless of race and religion, are corrupt ... why?

why is it so easy to fool the masses? What is wrong with the human nature, because if the vaste majority doest see anything, there must be a reason.

my answer is that the Human nature is fundamentally good - but also very gullible.

The blame game isnt working so well in my view, because "the top" represents a mere 2% of the world population today... so to be able to address long lasting changes, we ought to investigate the cause of the gullibility rate instead.

[Book]

The blame game isnt working so well in my view, because "the top" represents a mere 2% of the world population today... so to be able to address long lasting changes, we ought to investigate the cause of the gullibility rate instead.


http://rosevillecommunityfools.com/images/three_roseville_schools_fail.jpg

http://blog.nj.com/southjerseylife/2008/06/large_hiphopharry.jpg

Jew-controlled teevee and jew-controlled public schools and you wonder why goyim are gullible?

The Chosenites (http://privateschool.about.com/od/jewishschools/tp/jewishschools.htm) designed the public media and public education systems so goyim fail.

:oo-->

[singular_me]

sure education... but here is the rap: before the great depression, schools were a lot more competitive than today... such artcile wouldnt have been an issue and never made a front page...

Even during the Renaissance and The Enlghtement Eras, considered as very productive period of times... it doesnt add up, sorry.

Gullibilty/ too much trust has nothing to do with Knowledge. It can be cured with Knowledge, I dont deny that. I am just referring to a human natural "predisposition" .. are humans just too good by nature?

Okay the Jewsih elite... but every continent has had foreign predominant elites. Depending on who won the wars.. root of xenophobia.

[singular_me]

being too good empowers evil, is as evil as the top elites. I am kinda fed up with hearing race/culture bashing... lets just look at history instead, there isnt any culture that deserves to win a price in ethics. The blame game will not get us very far, again if history is any indication, I am afraid.

The king Leopold II of Belgium was responsible for the 10 million deaths during the colonies, all of which is still impacting Black Africa nowadays. How many more dead people since then?? Just an example.

Ayn Rand had a solid point when saying that genealogy, perpertuating the cultural agenda of one's ancestors, is a derived form of collectivism.

[Book]

Gullibilty/ too much trust has nothing to do with Knowledge. It can be cured with Knowledge, I dont deny that. I am just referring to a human natural "predisposition" .. humans are just too good by nature.



http://www.come-and-hear.com/navigate.html

If we are to have a productive debate here we need to simply acknowledge Reality. Jesus preaches that we should "turn the other cheek" and "love thy enemy" while the Talmud teaches the Jews that it is alright to lie, cheat, and steal from the goyim.

Jew-controlled teevee reinforces that Christian victimization by broadcasting nonsense that, for example, Banksters are really nice goyim guys who only want to do right by their community:

http://weblogs.fox40.com/news/opinion/sacramentoscene/awonderfullife.jpg

Meanwhile the real Jewish Banksters rob the naive brainwashed Christians blind:

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2009/11/10/alg_goldman_lloyd-blankfein.jpg

:oo-->

[singular_me]

if it all comes down to "poor chrisians" versus "evil jews"... then the debate is close.. .

this world in going to go down the toilet before it gets better. The success of collectivistic capitalism is much deeper than a race/culture issue. IMHO.

[singular_me]

A marketing strategy to fabricate the need in a population to buy (mountains of stuff) to fill an emptiness caused by the loss of a sense of connection through spirit, or the loss of God.

Objectivism=Materialism


The loss of God makes sense... but lets keep in mind that all cultures have been gamed to death. Literally. So we really have a monster issue here. I am getting tired of pointing to the culprits instead of addressing The worldwide loss of God and why it ocurred. Inducing senseless consumering is only a part of the equation., Id say it is a consquence. My stance is that religions must evolved if they do not want to be left behind...their one size fit all imagery is now completely outdated.

Thanks for your input

[Book]

The success of collectivistic capitalism is much deeper than a race/culture issue. IMHO.



http://ceoworld.biz/ceo/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/ruth-madoff-bernard-ponzi-scheme.jpg

No it isn't. IMHO.

:oo-->

[singular_me]

it dosnt take into account the acumulation Karma or practice of compassion as a way to foster kinder force in life.


very much agree... but I fear that a sense of individuality will have to come back in force to change the course of Mankind. Not to confuse with individualism.

Compassion, well just as anything else, must be experienced, and this is not without a reason as why we are dealing with this mega mess.

[TPTB]

As far as I understand it, Objectivism views consciousness as an individual cognitive development. I'm speaking here only of consciousness, not of the many other abstract aspects of Objectivist philosophy.
A sort of independent human achievement that each of us either reaches or doesn't... and remains unconscious, not fully human. Consciousness being something each of us does alone and apart from humanity other than through sensory communication. Remember now, this is what I interpret Objectivism as suggesting.

Personally though, I think from a more metaphysical sense, consciousness itself is collective in nature. In other words I can't attain leaps of personal consciousness (intuition) without the connection to the collective consciousness. And not necessarily a sensory connection, but psychic. This is what I think of as empathy, and empathy is the basis of humanity, the very foundation of humanity is collective consciousness.

Something like an electrical connection. Without there being both a positive and a negative connection, there is no flow, no consciousness. Ergo, "I think in relation to you, therefore I am." Without "you" I am nothing. I am not connected. The switch is off. It's a no go. The light ain't on.

Rand, on the other hand, seems to suggest that whatever level of human consciousness she or others have attained, has only been won through superior personal individual independent self exertion and therefore deserves all the credit.

Rational self interest isn't rational at all to my way of thinking because there is no "self" outside of the collective consciousness to begin with, just as there is no shepherd without an attendant flock, or no shoe salesmen without there being shoes. lol

[singular_me]

very challenging input.... your view of objectivism is very balanced, and i like that. My orgnal posting never meant to trash objectivism completely. Objectivism being aristotelian oriented - methaphisically - its very basic premises are still worth analyzing. Now that i have fully grasped universal dualities principles, i can see why her theory is a complete double edged sword, hence the top elites' interest in it to manipulate and twist the notion of the 'self'.



== TPTB
As far as I understand it, Objectivism views consciousness as an individual cognitive development. I'm speaking here only of consciousness, not of the many other abstract aspects of Objectivist philosophy.
A sort of independent human achievement that each of us either reaches or doesn't... and remains unconscious, not fully human. Consciousness being something each of us does alone and apart from humanity other than through sensory communication. Remember now, this is what I interpret Objectivism as suggesting.

thanks for refreshing my memory... this is very thoughtful...


Personally though, I think from a more metaphysical sense, consciousness itself is collective in nature. In other words I can't attain leaps of personal consciousness (intuition) without the connection to the collective consciousness. And not necessarily a sensory connection, but psychic. This is what I think of as empathy, and empathy is the basis of humanity, the very foundation of humanity is collective consciousness.... Rand, on the other hand, seems to suggest that whatever level of human consciousness she or others have attained, has only been won through superior personal individual independent self exertion and therefore deserves all the credit.

actually this sounds kinda buddhist oriented... or the way I percieve it.



Something like an electrical connection. Without there being both a positive and a negative connection, there is no flow, no consciousness. Ergo, "I think in relation to you, therefore I am." Without "you" I am nothing. I am not connected. The switch is off. It's a no go. The light ain't on. Rational self interest isn't rational at all to my way of thinking because there is no "self" outside of the collective consciousness to begin with, just as there is no shepherd without an attendant flock, or no shoe salesmen without there being shoes. lol

UM-UM... I again have to agree that it is the environment that shapes the object. and this makes the case for a 'collective consciouness' . Nonetheless there must be a perpetual flow between 'collective' and 'higher self' to sustain harmony. Since we are all born defenseless, ignorant and completely dependent on society, the collective consciousness comes first. There is no chiicken-egg issue at stake here.

this could more than partially explain this 'good-herd mentality' and why people are more inclined to find their identity within a specific group. doing so is not a problem. The problem lies in exclusively relying on the group itself. This works very well for animals though. We see this emotional ditechtomy through extreme materialism, people associate their selves with their possessions and spiritual leaning to fit a social mold. They sacrifice their higher-selves for the sake of the collective, ironically unconsciously. This state of mind works for animals but humans are no animals since they can connect with a higher-self/God, so my guess is that we have to understand that recharging our spiritual batteries can only be accomplished through the connection with the higher-self... then share with the collective. The success of global socialism is the direct consequence of failing to comprehend the concept, hence the loss of individuality. As it doesnt work out, people expect to cure the disease with the same remedies that created the problem. With more religious fanaticism and socialism only resulting in increasing blame games, while the real solution resides within us. Total self fulfilling doom prophecies.

Right - the higher-self versus the collective would work as a postive-negative exchange... this reminds me of the book 'the universal one' by walter russell who states that Light is male and Earth is female. Its all about magnetism, and so works Consciousness.

My feeling that we are on the right path to nail it, TPTB. thanks for helping connect some dots...

[Book]

Objectivism is Flawed

http://www.alangreenspan.org/images/Alan%20Greenspan/Alan_Greenspan_Ayn_Rand.jpg

Ayn Rand's inner circle was exclusively Talmudist Jews including Alan Greenspan but I guess we are supposed to ignore that simple Reality in Goldissima threads...lol.

:oo-->

[singular_me]

Ayn Rand's inner circle was exclusively Talmudist Jews including Alan Greenspan but I guess we are supposed to ignore that simple Reality in Goldissima threads...lol.

keep fighting the collective and you will get what you seek... reality of the collective, while real, doesnt bring anything worthy because it is up to each of us, not fearing to stand alone FOR our self. Individually, so it can benefit the whole. Thats the trick... there is no group therapy out there to solve this.

fear is an illusion because it is the result of seeing only parts. we cannot see the whole.
fear causes evil
hence satan is the projection of our very fears, hence is too an illusion
all that is is Love

[Horn]

keep fighting the collective and you will get what you seek... reality of the collective, while real, doesnt bring anything worthy because it is up to each of us, not fearing to stand alone of our self. Individually, so it can benefit the whole. Thats the trick... there is no group therapy out there to solve this.


I endorse this post, those stuck in group therapy with regards to the collective are pulling the wool over their own eyes.

[singular_me]

I endorse this post, those stuck in group therapy with regards to the collective are pulling the wool over their own eyes.


peaceful non compliance is the only way to go...

[Saul Mine]

some of you cite "exploitation of materialism" ...

if 90% of population fall into the same trap over and over... despite the overhewlming evidence that the elites throughout the ages, regardless of race and religion, are corrupt ... why?

why is it so easy to fool the masses? What is wrong with the human nature, because if the vaste majority doest see anything, there must be a reason.

my answer is that the Human nature is fundamentally good - but also very gullible.

The blame game isnt working so well in my view, because "the top" represents a mere 2% of the world population today... so to be able to address long lasting changes, we ought to investigate the cause of the gullibility rate instead.


Human nature is fundamentally lazy. People really really want somebody else to take over their responsibilities. They will pay that officer anything he demands as long as they don't have to take back their responsibilities for any reason.

[Book]

... reality of the collective, while real, doesn't bring anything worthy because it is up to each of us, not fearing to stand alone FOR our self. Individually, so it can benefit the whole. That's the trick... there is no group therapy out there to solve this.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4IqAMwAGn1w/SYRnom-0fKI/AAAAAAAAN7o/3U6oG7UaxCc/s400/New+Age+Oprah.jpg

Talmudist Jews (http://www.adl.org/about.asp?s=topmenu) work effectively as a cohesive group and yet you preach to the goyim to act only as an isolated Individual chasing esoteric meaning-of-life new-age enlightenment stuff. Seems as though you don't want goyim coming together as an effective cohesive group to deal with the predatory organized cohesive Talmudists.

:oo-->

[Horn]

A semblance of or a "hostile" front against any products results increasing the potency & efficiency of such.

True history is repeat with examples.

A continuation of said group therapy regarding such matters will only result in much of the same.

If the "collective" were somewhat cognitive of the subtle differences? Insanity may then be alleviated.

But it won't and they don't.

Leave it to a small sovereign group of aliens to exploit such obvious cyclical natures.

[singular_me]

Book, you may post all the images you want... all you do is pointing at the consequences, which are mirroring the core of the issue: spiritual collectivisam... dig deeper when you get a chance.

whatever belief system you choose is NOT the problem but how do you wish it to be implemented.

all religions are okay as long as not seeking a whole socciety to follow the same rules. collectivism in desguise. It also is delusional because every life path is unique. What works for some wont work for others.


EDIT
reminder jews were accused of christ's death, as a result the roman church persecuted them for about centuries. If you persecute ppl, they are going to do everything to fight back. Prohbition of usury gave them a unique occasion as the Church failed (on purpose) to educate the masses, becoming the masters of the world was much too tempting. Time for the Roman Church to take responsibility. If the church werent corrupt to start with Jews wouldnt have been able to take over the financial world. It is a two-headed monster that we now have to cope with. Jew bashing is kinda hypocritical. But lets face it Elites have always banded together depending on their aganda... there is nothing new under the sun.

[singular_me]

my edit in the previous posting:

any discrimination, persecution has dire consequences... we can see how carrying out the legacy of ancestors, regardless of history, may turn out being a lethal trap.

Christ was much more of a political threat in the beginningl Just as Socrates, who asserted that there is one God and that democracy was despostim. He too was put to death, well asked to drink poison. Assisted suicide.

Because organized religions always end up banding with political powers, there is no easy fix... but letting it go, should be something that everybody could do.

The battle is lost. Fighting for spirituality should be seen as a crime against Mankind.

[Quantum]

reminder jews were accused of christ's death, as a result the roman church persecuted them for about centuries.


Satan's children, the Talmud Jews, were responsible for Christ's death. They forced Pilate's hand; it was either Christ or Pilate, so he chose the latter.



Jew bashing is kinda hypocritical.


If one serves Satan, condemning the Talmud Jews is indeed hypocritical. You're on the same team.

[Occamsrazor]

Objectivism is satanism minus the rituals.

[Book]

Time for the Roman Church to take responsibility. If the church weren't corrupt to start with Jews wouldn't have been able to take over the financial world.


Many if not most of your threads in the Religion and Philosophy section insult the Roman Catholic Church specifically and Christians generally, but I have yet to see one single Goldissima thread specifically criticizing the jews. Not one. Ever.

:oo-->

[Occamsrazor]

Helena Rosenbaum aka Ayn Rand was a uniquely ugly creature outwardly and inwardly.
I couldn`t get thru more than 2 pages of her pompous prose. She spoke with a hideous Russian accent and I wonder who was ghost-writing her crap.

[Horn]

The battle is lost. Fighting for spirituality should be seen as a crime against Mankind.


Good post, and the evidence as such rings throughout this very website as well.

[TPTB]

Time for the Roman Church to take responsibility. If the church weren't corrupt to start with Jews wouldn't have been able to take over the financial world.


Many if not most of your threads in the Religion and Philosophy section insult the Roman Catholic Church specifically and Christians generally, but I have yet to see one single Goldissima thread specifically criticizing the jews. Not one. Ever.

:oo-->


Ooh, scary. You better watch out, Goldie's evil might rub off on you, Book. lol :)

[singular_me]

Satan's children, the Talmud Jews, were responsible for Christ's death. They forced Pilate's hand; it was either Christ or Pilate, so he chose the latter.


Helena Rosenbaum aka Ayn Rand was a uniquely ugly creature outwardly and inwardly.I couldn`t get thru more than 2 pages of her pompous prose. She spoke with a hideous Russian accent and I wonder who was ghost-writing her crap.



Many if not most of your threads in the Religion and Philosophy section insult the Roman Catholic Church specifically and Christians generally, but I have yet to see one single Goldissima thread specifically criticizing the jews. Not one. Ever.

one simple answer the day masses will understand how/why the elites play with their inner fears, the world will start being a better place... of course saying that comes down to insulting or being a devil worshiper... really?? time to get real folks! Christ' s nessage, of Universal Love, is indeed wonderful but it wont translate into anything positive if you fight for Him. I hope I made myself clear.

I condemn the Jewish elites as much as the Roman Church... anyone who thinks we need a faith monoploy on earth. It is utterly ludicrous to accuse people of their pedecessors' unethical deeds. Then why not accepting slavery reparation while we are at it? Of course in this very case many would scream that the african leaders at the time were as much as responsible. And they are right. This is the point I am willing to make here. One must be two to tango... thanks to Constantine and his successors who endorsed the persecution of the Jews. What has become Christ message of compassion? Nada!

I am not pro-randist. But I clearly see why objectivism gave some the idea to add another twist to their domination platform, And they achieved a great deal. Objectivism has two serious flaws in my view, which I stipulated in my posting starting this thread. m

Looks like I am being asked "you are with us or against us". Reminds me of Bush before attacking Iraq. Is it what Faith is all about?? The best place for a thinker and spiritualist is called the "no-man's land".

[JohnQPublic]

I think Ayan Rand died when Greenspan, her protege, put her ideas into action and we ended up where we are today because of it.

[singular_me]

Ooh, scary. You better watch out, Goldie's evil might rub off on you, Book. lol

LOL.. my faith is better than yours is a game by/for the elites, The complete clash is coming Being completely off the grid is my smartest move ever. I am very lucky to live on a ranch whose owner is a fan of webbot... I call it serendipity.

[singular_me]

I think Ayan Rand died when Greenspan, her protege, put her ideas into action and we ended up where we are today because of it.


nice to see you here... I agree that Rand's theoriy is doomed to fail, we just have to look at the world today. You and I surely have a different perspectives but agree on the conclusion.

[Book]

Christ' message, of Universal Love, is indeed wonderful but it won't translate into anything positive if you fight for Him. I hope I made myself clear.


The ultimate jewish wetdream...goyim fighting for "Israel" but not for Jesus...lol.

:D

[Occamsrazor]

If you want to know what Stalinism is, it`s the very opposite of objectivism, although Stalinism rewards hard work and talent and punishes lazyness and mediocrity.

[singular_me]

The ultimate jewish wetdream...goyim fighting for "Israel" but not for Jesus...lol.
let it go, Book... there is nothing to fight for. This final battle is about Man versus Himself. His fears... finding out that aloneness means being one with the Universe/God.. if there is one world world religion, this is it. You and the entire Cosmos with its complex polarities.

[Book]

I am very lucky to live on a ranch whose owner is a fan of webbot... I call it serendipity.


http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumb_138/1176347792Dp00Qo.jpg

Childless Ayn Rand didn't mention one single child in her novel Atlas Shrugged and selfishness was her focus never motherhood.

:oo-->

[singular_me]

If you want to know what Stalinism is, it`s the very opposite of objectivism, although Stalinism rewards hard work and talent and punishes lazyness and mediocrity.


you know, at both sides of the spectrum, opposites reach one another... extreme capitalism becomes colletiivism - and otherwise. That is why the majority didnt see it coming. Me included... but now I realize it and act accordingly.

[Occamsrazor]

If you want to know what Stalinism is, it`s the very opposite of objectivism, although Stalinism rewards hard work and talent and punishes lazyness and mediocrity.


you know, on both sides of the spectrum, opposites reach one another... extreme capitalism becomes colletiivism - and otherwise. That is why the majority didnt see it coming. Me included... but now I realize it and act accordingly.




I`m sure you know that labels such as capitalism,communism, right/left wing etc are meaningless today.
There are only 2 classes of people, honest creators and dishonest parasites. Everything else is secondary including nationality,religion etc.
Not many know that there were multimillionairs during Stalin`s reign. He gave astronomical salaries to creative people such as scientists, artists,engineers etc and courageous people such as pilots, explorers etc.

So, he in fact created a fair version of capitalism where talent and hard work were greaty rewarded while Bernie Madoffs ended up with a dirty soldier`s sock stuffed in their mouths and shot in the back of the head.

This is why him and Henry Ford were mutual fans.

[7th trump]

Wow Goldie!
you have such a............................well you know!

[Occamsrazor]

Wow Goldie!
you have such a............................well you know!


Yes and I`ve just noticed that the adorable lady has the applaud/smite ratio similar to that of the hated myself.

[singular_me]

Wow Goldie!
you have such a............................well you know!


hello there.... you again. LOL

actually, I happen to I like you 7thT. I dont wish any christian bad.. I just want all the monopolies out there to be sent to oblivion peacefully, using non compliance, forgiveness and compassion. No culture/race is better than another one in our time of universal deceit. Fighting back is resisting total inner defeat.

[Horn]

No culture/race is better than another one in our time of universal deceit. Fighting back is resisting total inner defeat.


Like the first part, but the second needs more expoundedness. :)

Thank You,

the critic Horn..

[singular_me]

I was refering to the denial vs guilt factor in this case... the more we're fighting, the more we are refusing to accept that no race is better than another one. Deceit levels can only go up and defeating us more and more.

very often agression translates a strong denial in the first place. That is why wars are all deceptions. If people could see why the elites need them, they would feel toally defeated morally, emotionally.

Even a drug addict commiting a theft or a killing is in denail of his own addiction, just an example







No culture/race is better than another one in our time of universal deceit. Fighting back is resisting total inner defeat.


Like the first part, but the second needs more expoundedness. :)

Thank You,

the critic Horn..

[Horn]

Interesting thought, gonna have to sort that a bit over.

[Horn]

Even a drug addict committing a theft or a killing is in denial of his own addiction, just an example

AA for the elite?

Or would that be a step in the opposite direction?

I'm not mocking, just exploring the possibilities.

As I most hate anything with labels, on the one hand.

It seems to be the only thing that works tried & true.

[Occamsrazor]

I was refering to the denial vs guilt factor in this case... the more we're fighting, the more we are refusing to accept that no race is better than another one. Deceit levels can only go up and defeating us more and more.

very often agression translates a strong denial in the first place. That is why wars are all deceptions. If people could see why the elites need them, they would feel toally defeated morally, emotionally.

Even a drug addict commiting a theft or a killing is in denail of his own addiction, just an example



I can cure your racial liberalism with 2 sentences. Here it comes so you may want to sit comfortably and relax.
Look around and make a mental notice of everything you see for a few minutes, hrs or weeks. All of it has been invented and created by White people.

PS. What makes you think a drug addict at the point where he needs to commit crimes to feed his habit doesn`t realize that he is addicted? What kind of idea is it and what is its source? Is it liberalism again, an attempt to absolve junkies of the crimes they may commit to feed the habit?

[TPTB]

For the life of me, I have been unable to figure out what this thread is actually about. ???

I thought it was about Ayn Rand and how Objectivism is flawed?

[singular_me]

Look around and make a mental notice of everything you see for a few minutes, hrs or weeks. All of it has been invented and created by White people.

white people... corrupting other races... but non-white/foreign leaders gave/caved in whatsoever.

the way I see it, this is a 50-50% game.

[singular_me]

For the life of me, I have been unable to figure out what this thread is actually about. ???

I thought it was about Ayn Rand and how Objectivism is flawed?


sorry I wished that this thread had stayed on topic, but some people made it impossible.

There is a similar appraoch in all my threads though. Definition of evil blured by dualities principles because of "the power of the intent" factor and inacurracy of any theories that do not include all knowledge currently available. This is all I seek to achieve in this forum but every time I make an attempt, I end up banging my head against the wall because some jump in and trash instead of having a open minded dialogue...

I still think that Ayn Rand is worth reading because she dropped a bomb with her "Virtue of Selfishness"... in the end seeking world peace, will just come down to this. Protecting oneself from physical/economic agression for the sake of the species. The Ego is a double edge sword, enabling to achieve either total evil or selflessness. That is why Capitalism, and socialism alike, are doomed to fail if people could ever wake up. There is no other exit: Global Fascism or Global Selflessness. This is why the elites are so bend on the "divide and conquer" mantra. As long as we fight among one another., they are safe.

[singular_me]

well the elites could be seen as addicted to power in a very pathological, sociopathic way. In this particular case, there is very little denial, they are fully aware of what they do. Sociopaths do not have remorses.

In the braod sense, addiction to a belief is not bad as long as you do not harm people though. Geniuses are addicted to (more positively obsessed with) their search. Just an example.

There is a lot to discuss here, I am sure we could find some pros and cons, that is why I said "very often". This is not a flawless approach

Or would that be a step in the opposite direction?
Please elaborate when you get a chance

Best




Even a drug addict committing a theft or a killing is in denial of his own addiction, just an example

AA for the elite?

Or would that be a step in the opposite direction?

I'm not mocking, just exploring the possibilities.

As I most hate anything with labels, on the one hand.

It seems to be the only thing that works tried & true.

[TPTB]

Ayn Rand, I'm quit sure, spent a lot of effort working on her ideologies.
However, out of all her verbal philosophical calisthenics, just about the only thing that anyone can hold in their head is this; "The Virtue of Selfishness"

This is Ayn Rands brand... "The Virtue of Selfishness" That's pretty much it.

And that has done nothing to help bring about a world of peace. Not in the least. What it actually helped bring about was a one world monetary banking system, and a final stage in a Global One World Economy.

What she wound up offering the world was an elaborate rationalization to qualify personal greed. She contributed greatly toward validating a "greed is good" mantra among western producers and consumers.
And speaking of the word consumer, what kind of horrible, nightmare name to call a population, eh?

Anyway...

She didn't invent this idea, but she did help popularize it. She coined the phrase that morphed into

"Greed is Good" A decade or two ago this was the rosy balm on every capitalistic whores lips.

"Greed is Good" was the final gasping wheezing Sirens Song of the 20th Century.

"Greed is good and altruism is theft." Here now is the present remains of what Ayn Rand offered us.

And most all of us participated in this to some degree by buying into the Wall St. Market Casino and buying into the Real Estate Lotto boom and waving our USA flags as the Military doused the mideast is depleted Uranium.

We found rationalizations for the greed that was good.

[Occamsrazor]

Objectivism is antisocial personality disorder aka sociopathy, wrapped in philosophic jargon and presented in the form of fiction novels.

The main feature of sociopathy is total absense of guilt or remorse. Objectivism is the philosophical basis of Anglo-American capitalism.

Waiting for sociopaths to acknowledge the error of their ways is like waiting for the Moon to fall from the sky to be sliced and sold in your local supermarket as Swiss cheese.

[singular_me]

TPTB, I agree with everything you said... but I will be extremely bold in my posting below. First we cannot cure any system with the flaws that created it and expecting different results. That the definition of insanity. The root core of the battle is hierachy/power vs free will sustained by compassion. Hierachy demands darwinistic competition and free will the respect for each other.

I for one believe that our current situation was bound to happen, with(out) Ayn Rand. The cult of the self is a hierachy plot that has always been out there. It is always been about controlling the money supply.Gold of Fiat is doesnt really matter. Society praised enterpreneurship but endorses hierarchical stagnation, the same evil interventionist bloodlines have been out there for more than 4,000 years and have made sure to twist any concept in their favor... .

but what I mean is that extreme sides of the spectrum always end up reaching one another, all of which sends us back to square one.... so on one end, we have selfhisness and on the other end, selflessness...

now we have reached a point where absolute selfishness is about to cross path with selflessness... it will be interesting to see which outcome Humanity is going to choose because there is a collective consciousess seeking balance working its way through in each of us. Every living things, biologically and emotionally always seek to go back to its/one's primary equilibrium. That is why we tend to get much of the same when we do not get it. Asking for a hierarchy is asking to be deceived. Man must learn to be the master of himself.

Although I would trash any collectivist approach today, the latter would work out well without a hierchachy and a moneyless system, Interestingly, that the only way anarchy can be too implemented positively. Collectivism an anarchy also represent two sides of the spectrum and can be complematary if the hierarchy factor was inexistant. The merging of the two might be more rightully renamed **cooperative individualism**. It is the concept of hierachy that makes what we call today coilectivism and anarchy dreadful.

Salvation will always lies in what is deemed as an uptopia... Thats the name of the game in the universe... Negative fears can hold us back (stick to old formulas) until everything falls apart but can propel us into unchartered directions because there isnt any other solution. Lets get real: materialism is a senseless quest because it never can be satiated.

Accepting the nature of constant change would convert fears into an extremly posiituve drive.. this is what education is lacking today. .

[Book]

The merging of the two might be more rightully renamed **cooperative individualism**.


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_CexmGA6VKhM/R5KcIQXOKAI/AAAAAAAAAKw/Ulw8BjUvpsw/s400/Borg_cube.jpg

http://sandalsandsocks.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/04/28/borg.jpg

Cooperative Individualism like the Borg?

:oo-->

[singular_me]

keep quoting selectively and you will again make yourself look like a butt, Book

what you did, proves again that "we get the leaders/hierachy" we deserve , 4,000 years that we havent addressed the core of the issue.. up to this day, we have no idea of what society would be like without "them"... so, all current your views about society are SKEWED.

keep in mind:
Asking for a hierarchy is asking to be deceived. Man must learn to be the master of himself.

Maybe do you need to see 70% of society, after todal economic demise, going back to farming and self-sustainable living (and helping each others) to finally see a little bit further and have the epiphany of your life.

Hierarchy = human beings are inherently evil, they need to be controlled. If you subscribe to this, sure you're going to see the devil everyehere and fight him until your death. Best of luck, pal

[Book]

keep quoting selectively and you will again make yourself look like a butt, Book


Or maybe you simply don't make any sense. Please help us understand you better in this new dedicated thread:

http://gold-silver.us/forum/religion-and-philosophy/singularity-awareness/msg40422/?topicseen#msg40422

:)

[Ash_Williams]

Asking for a hierarchy is asking to be deceived.

Simple as that. There's natural variations among people that mean some will want to rule and most will demand to be ruled.

They may complain about how unfair it all is, how they are not free, how things should be, etc. But at the end of the day all they want are new rulers.

Worse yet, they have no comfort without rules. Makes them ripe for brainwashing. Minds just waiting to be told what their morals are, what they should do, what is right and wrong, when to feel guilty and how to make that feeling go away.

So we end up with leaders and take advantage of the masses while they take care of them. After thousands of years of this it's bred into us. This system of the masses not being responsible for themselves offers good opportunity for them to have children and better odds the children will survive.

I don't believe it can be changed. Species evolve into this kind of thing. In another thousands generations we'll probably behave like ants, with most of us totally unable to function without order and authority.

[singular_me]

You do not make sense.. starting this thread about me shows that YOU LOST the battle, the only thing you can ressort to is shooting the messenger now.... typical NWO tactics. And you lecture me about the zionist threat??.

maybe could you please email them and ask if my site is related to theirs first... and you will find out that you have absolutely nothing to back your assertions.

I WARN YOU THAT YOU WILL OWE ME AN APOLOGY.

I give you 4 days to come up with an email the docom site... and urge others to do the same





keep quoting selectively and you will again make yourself look like a butt, Book


Or maybe you simply don't make any sense. Please help us understand you better in this new dedicated thread:

http://gold-silver.us/forum/religion-and-philosophy/singularity-awareness/msg40422/?topicseen#msg40422

[singular_me]

although, I am much less pessimistic than you about the outcome, I have to fully agree. People want freedom but with a hierachy, this is the absolute con-game. At this stage , I even seriously question Liberarianism. Eventually people will get lazy again and trust their leaders... with the risk to fall into the same trap again.





Simple as that. There's natural variations among people that mean some will want to rule and most will demand to be ruled.

They may complain about how unfair it all is, how they are not free, how things should be, etc. But at the end of the day all they want are new rulers.

Worse yet, they have no comfort without rules. Makes them ripe for brainwashing. Minds just waiting to be told what their morals are, what they should do, what is right and wrong, when to feel guilty and how to make that feeling go away.

So we end up with leaders and take advantage of the masses while they take care of them. After thousands of years of this it's bred into us. This system of the masses not being responsible for themselves offers good opportunity for them to have children and better odds the children will survive.

I don't believe it can be changed. Species evolve into this kind of thing. In another thousands generations we'll probably behave like ants, with most of us totally unable to function without order and authority.

[Horn]

In another thousands generations we'll probably behave like ants, with most of us totally unable to function without order and authority.

But until then, royalty will be routed out & destroyed.

I have a problems with a completely linear evolution, I believe it looks more like a VIX chart. (Objectively speaking)

Weren't we fish at one point? :)

[singular_me]

I have a problems with a completely linear evolution

me too.. humanity's fate is up to us, be like ants or free... the clock is ticking though.

[TPTB]

It's funny how outwardly we tend to place an almost religious fervor on our individual rights, our personal liberties, our rights to private accomplishment and ownership, when all the while, the really important stuff is being done by organizations, by institutions and corporations wherein each of us as individuals barely even register as living beings. Where we individuals are workers, laborers, employees, customers and consumers. Where everything we do or make or imagine is the property of the collective that we work for.

If we're lucky. ;D

[Horn]

Where we individuals are workers, laborers, employees, customers and consumers. Where everything we do or make or imagine is the property of the collective that we work for.

If we're lucky. ;D


Well there's always Mars, as an objective ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LX5hbuK7BOQ

[singular_me]

Living is exchanging, we'll always work for the collective.. it is just a matter of how to do it ethically: .could we have a system where money does not lead to wealth concentration?

This is a very important question, because when one admits that, capitalism has never been what it claims to be. When I look back at history, it is been pretty communistic since ever, with some periods of time where individuals were a litte bit free-er. It is taxation that defines the level of freedom/hierarchcal power... interstingly, middle ages serfs only paid 30% taxes as opposed to 50% in the euro block today, not to mention the euro crisis now playing.

With most of gold and silver being in the hands of the NWO, even our small stachs of coins look insignificant.

competition works well for animals (because they dont have the intelligence to take over the world) but for us the price-tag is enslavement guarranteed. Because we have a brain to think ahead and as soon as we start competing the "masonic pyramid" takes shape. More than 4,000 years of failure... appalling to say the least

Should we start regarding competition as completely antagonistc and a self-defeating device, money would no longer make any sense. We cannot fix the money/elite/hierarchy system... it is delusional to think we can. I think Hypertiger is right here. this is what s/he means with her/his abrasive statements which many find insulting.




It's funny how outwardly we tend to place an almost religious fervor on our individual rights, our personal liberties, our rights to private accomplishment and ownership, when all the while, the really important stuff is being done by organizations, by institutions and corporations wherein each of us as individuals barely even register as living beings. Where we individuals are workers, laborers, employees, customers and consumers.Where everything we do or make or imagine is the property of the collective that we work for.

If we're lucky. ;D

[Ash_Williams]

although, I am much less pessimistic than you about the outcome, I have to fully agree. People want freedom but with a hierachy, this is the absolute con-game. At this stage , I even seriously question Liberarianism. Eventually people will get lazy again and trust their leaders... with the risk to fall into the same trap again.

People will always get lazy.
The divide between the ruled and rulers is just going to get bigger. I don't think it can happen any other way.
We live now with so much opportunity and so much information available. There are less and less excuses for being an ignorant slave each day, yet people still do it. Some people have a major malfunction that prevents them from learning or accomplishing anything. Everyone I'm sure has met a person that you try to explain something simple to and their eyes gloss over and they don't listen to a word then say they don't understand, they won't understand, go explain it to someone else. A few generations of them and we'll see kids that are born too lazy to ever dress themselves.

My personal philosophy is to live as best you can for yourself and help the others who are doing the same. If someone is trying to learn and grow and think I try to help them. If they want to watch dancing with the stars and have their ipod on 12 hours a day, fuck 'em. I believe many are not even capable of using their minds... they don't even have minds, their hardware just isn't setup that way.

I haven't believed Libertarianism was a feasible solution for a while now but I think moving towards it is the best thing we can do for those people that are able to learn and grow and be aware and actually be a human instead of a zombie.

[Shami-Amourae]

Ayn Rand countered godless communism by offering godless capitalism. Either way it's still godless.


I agree with you, and I'm an atheist.

[singular_me]

Ayn Rand countered godless communism by offering godless capitalism. Either way it's still godless.


I agree with you, and I'm an atheist.




thanks for showing up.. to be fair, I get along better with atheists because they dont tag me with the "S" word. Somebody who makes one's dury to live ethically, even as a atheist is fine with me. That is all what matters in the end.

Because I an fond of artistotle, I cannot say that I stand ready to trash Rand comletely... It just is about interpreting the survial of the fitest within a capitalist society. Today our own survival (indivduality) determines the survival of our species (collective)... pushing the extremes lead us back to square one, as it is now up to each of us to grasp what is really good for man.