The truth about message forums

[dysgenic]

Most message forums are enemy territory now. Those that aren't will be in short order as they will quickly attract the wrong kind of attention from the wrong kind of people. All of those things we used to speculate about on GIM1- the tinfoil hat stuff- is not only real but it is far more pervasive and entrenched than most would ever dream.

Government shills are real- although I personally believe that all of them aren't 'bad people'.
Data mining ops are real.
The really nasty underbelly of a lot of these forums are the occultists, the fake Christians, and the Satanists. These people will lie about what they believe in, they will try and befriend their enemies, and they will shadow the good guys.

If you get too close to the truth, you WILL attract attention to yourself. The time has come to be very careful in what you say, how you say it, and who you associate yourself with. There is an art that some of us have started to master- of saying something without really saying it. Remember- Jesus spoke in parables.
The bad guys give themselves away if you know what to look for. I'm not about to give away 'the tools of my trade', but in general watch for pushing and pulling, abstraction, and misdirection. Don't make it a witch hunting expedition- the bad guys will repeatedly engage in behaviours that lack sincerity and waste time. Be especially careful of those that demonstrate consistency yet subtlety at the same time.
Pay attention to the subject matter. It's very common for the bad guys to concede the points that they don't care about- even in seemingly vociferous approval- only to equivocate the points that they do. OR they will slowly reverse a previously taken position without commiting to do so.

PAY ATTENTION! There is no cookie cutter failsafe way to discern these things, but if you pay close attention it will become very clear to you very quickly who is shucking and jiving out there. There are many more than you think.

That is all.

dys

[Book]

The time has come to be very careful in what you say, how you say it, and who you associate yourself with. There is an art that some of us have started to master- of saying something without really saying it.


Censorship via fear. Nice try...lol.

:oo-->

[dysgenic]

That's what you got out of my post? I'd say the same thing to you that you said to me ("nice try..."), except that your try wasn't very good/nice. It kinda sucked, actually.






The time has come to be very careful in what you say, how you say it, and who you associate yourself with. There is an art that some of us have started to master- of saying something without really saying it.


Censorship via fear. Nice try...lol.

:oo-->

[Book]

That's what you got out of my post? I'd say the same thing to you that you said to me ("nice try..."), except that your try wasn't very good/nice. It kinda sucked, actually.


Gee....but...but...but...you said you were gonna be very careful in what you say, how you say it...blah blah blah...and here YOU are speaking out...lol.

:D

[hoarder]

Government shills are real- although I personally believe that all of them aren't 'bad people'.
Data mining ops are real.
One thing about "government infiltrators" in militias, internet forums, gun groups, secession movements and such.....they fit into two general categories.

1) Fully aware insiders.
2) Ignorant government emloyees.

In my opinion most if not all fit into category #1.
What if our rulers used ordinary government employees to infiltrate forums or organizations where governmedia lies are exposed for what they are, where secret societies and zionists are exposed? Our rulers would be taking a great risk in placing these people among us because many would see the merits of our positions and become sympathetic to our causes.

Category #1 is very busy and very short on manpower these days. Regardless of how much money they have, they don't have endless human resources. Some things they just have to do for themselves and forum infiltration is one of them.

[dysgenic]

Category #1 is very busy and very short on manpower these days. Regardless of how much money they have, they don't have endless human resources. Some things they just have to do for themselves and forum infiltration is one of them.

The 'they've got better things to do argument' isn't so persuasive after GIM1. For myself, I believe the war on the internet (which is really the war on the truth, because they don't care about the parts of the internet that suit their agenda) is right at the top of their list.
Honestly, based on your feelings towards the MSM (which I share), I would expect you to draw a similar conclusion.

dys

[Ponce]

The only real fear that exist is the one that you give yourselves........remember that in a firefight the enemy is just as scared as you are and the more of them that there are the mores slaves that you will have on the other side once they kill you ......if they kill you.

[StackerKen]

Im glad to see you posting here again Dysgenic :)

[MAGNES]

Dysgenic isn't a troll.
Dysgenic, see my thread in communications section.
Also, jedemdasseine thread.
We got their number, maybe you missed it.
Book too blew the doors off, see gim section.
We know the 3 main trolls well and their methods.
Only one or two is on here and active, but their
posts are comedy, even the threats, lol .

[BoatingAccident]

Im glad to see you posting here again Dysgenic :)


Me too. Glad to see you back, Dysgenic.

[Johndoe]

I agree:
Dysgenic isn't a troll.

Hang in there, bud!

[FunnyMoney]

"...pushing and pulling, abstraction, and misdirection. Don't make it a witch hunting expedition- the bad guys will repeatedly engage in behaviours that lack sincerity and waste time. Be especially careful of those that demonstrate consistency yet subtlety at the same time.
Pay attention to the subject matter. It's very common for the bad guys to concede the points that they don't care about- even in seemingly vociferous approval- only to equivocate the points that they do. OR they will slowly reverse a previously taken position without commiting to do so ...." -- dysgenic


I used to see this all the time over at GIM1.
This tactic has it's counter moves and what a post says, not who posted it, is what's important.

But this is also one of the reasons why I believe a motto is indeed important at a forum. The root cause issues of the evil of big govt, central banks, or the MIC are things that must be kept handy and every issue, symptom or not should be examined in that light.

Posts that take away the light in an attempt to deflect, distract, divide, or detract from the "motto" become easier to spot when a forum has the will to stay focused using such a central theme.

[Desolation LineTrimmer]

Which Greek said, "The man who can't speak his mind is a slave."? If you exist in a situation where you can't speak your true thoughts now and then, I'm not talking about haranguing all and sundry everyday, I just mean living in such a way that people know what and how you believe, then you are living as a slave, and might consider changing your lifestyle to that of a freeman.

[Book]

Which Greek said, "The man who can't speak his mind is a slave."? If you exist in a situation where you can't speak your true thoughts now and then, I'm not talking about haranguing all and sundry everyday, I just mean living in such a way that people know what and how you believe, then you are living as a slave, and might consider changing your lifestyle to that of a freeman.


Bingo!

:)

[StackerKen]

good point linetrimmer.

Thats why i like forums like these...cause I can talk about real stuff and give my Undereducated opinions on stuff :)

In the real world most probably wouldn't listen....Here, I kinda have a captive audience ....lol..

[Johndoe]

+1000, linetrimmer

Stacker, I think we're all groping for the truth.
Always appreciate your thoughts

[gunny highway]

Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation

How to spot a DISINFO AGENT
Submitted by WannaBfree on Sun, 12/06/2009 - 12:49
in Current Events
Twenty-Five Ways To Suppress Truth: The Rules of Disinformation (Includes The 8 Traits of A Disinformationalist) by H. Michael Sweeney
copyright (c) 1997, 2000 All rights reserved
(Revised April 2000)

Permission to reprint/distribute hereby granted for any non commercial use provided information reproduced in its entirety and with author information in tact. For more Intel/Shadow government related info, visit the Author's Web site:
http://www.proparanoid.com (now a dead link)



Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation

Built upon Thirteen Techniques for Truth Suppression by David Martin, the following may be useful to the initiate in the world of dealing with veiled and half-truth, lies, and suppression of truth when serious crimes are studied in public forums. This, sadly, includes every day news media, one of the worst offenders with respect to being a source of disinformation. Where the crime involves a conspiracy, or a conspiracy to cover up the crime, there will invariably be a disinformation campaign launched against those seeking to uncover and expose the truth and/or the conspiracy. There are specific tactics which disinfo artists tend to apply, as revealed here. Also included with this material are seven common traits of the disinfo artist which may also prove useful in identifying players and motives.

The more a particular party fits the traits and is guilty of following the rules, the more likely they are a professional disinfo artist with a vested motive. People can be bought, threatened, or blackmailed into providing disinformation, so even "good guys" can be suspect in many cases.

A rational person participating as one interested in the truth will evaluate that chain of evidence and conclude either that the links are solid and conclusive, that one or more links are weak and need further development before conclusion can be arrived at, or that one or more links can be broken, usually invalidating (but not necessarily so, if parallel links already exist or can be found, or if a particular link was merely supportive, but not in itself key to) the argument. The game is played by raising issues which either strengthen or weaken (preferably to the point of breaking) these links. It is the job of a disinfo artist to interfere with these evaluations... to at least make people think the links are weak or broken when, in truth, they are not... or to propose alternative solutions leading away from the truth. Often, by simply impeding and slowing down the process through disinformation tactics, a level of victory is assured because apathy increases with time and rhetoric.

It would seem true in almost every instance, that if one cannot break the chain of evidence for a given solution, revelation of truth has won out. If the chain is broken either a new link must be forged, or a whole new chain developed, or the solution is invalid and a new one must be found... but truth still wins out. There is no shame in being the creator or supporter of a failed solution, chain, or link, if done with honesty in search of the truth. This is the rational approach. While it is understandable that a person can become emotionally involved with a particular side of a given issue, it is really unimportant who wins, as long as truth wins. But the disinfo artist will seek to emotionalize and chastise any failure (real or false claims thereof), and will seek by means of intimidation to prevent discussion in general.

It is the disinfo artist and those who may pull their strings (those who stand to suffer should the crime be solved) MUST seek to prevent rational and complete examination of any chain ofevidence which would hang them. Since fact and truth seldom fall on their own, they must be overcome with lies and deceit. Those who are professional in the art of lies and deceit, such as the intelligence community and the professional criminal (often the same people or at least working together), tend to apply fairly well defined and observable tools in this process.However, the public at large is not well armed against such weapons, and is often easily ledastray by these time-proven tactics. Remarkably, not even media and law enforcement have
NOT BEEN TRAINED to deal with these issues. For the most part, only the players themselves understand the rules of the game.

For such disinformationalists, the overall aim is to avoid discussing links in the chain of evidence which cannot be broken by truth, but at all times, to use clever deceptions or lies to make select links seem weaker than they are, create the illusion of a break, or better still, cause any who are considering the chain to be distracted in any number of ways, including the method of questioning the credentials of the presenter. Please understand that fact is fact, regardless of the source. Likewise, truth is truth, regardless of the source. This is why criminals are allowed to testify against other criminals. Where a motive to lie may truly exist, only actual evidence that the testimony itself IS a lie renders it completely invalid. Were a known 'liar's' testimony to stand on its own without supporting fact, it might certainly be of questionable value, but if the testimony (argument) is based on verifiable or otherwise demonstrable facts, it matters not who does the presenting or what their motives are, or if they have lied in the past or even if motivated to lie in this instance -- the facts or links would and should stand or fall on their own merit and their part in the matter will merely be supportive.

Moreover, particularly with respects to public forums such as newspaper letters to the editor, and Internet chat and news groups, the disinfo type has a very important role. In these forums, the principle topics of discussion are generally attempts by individuals to cause other persons to become interested in their own particular position, idea, or solution -- very much in development at the time. People often use such mediums as a sounding board and in hopes of pollination to better form their ideas. Where such ideas are critical of government or powerful, vested groups (especially if their criminality is the topic), the disinfo artist has yet another role -- the role of nipping it in the bud. They also seek to stage the concept, the presenter, and any supporters as less than credible should any possible future confrontation in more public forums result due to their early successes. You can often spot the disinfo types at work here by the unique application of "higher standards" of discussion than necessarily warranted. They will demand that those presenting arguments or concepts back everything up with the same level of expertise as a professor, researcher, or investigative writer. Anything less renders anydiscussion meaningless and unworthy in their opinion, and anyone who disagrees is obviously stupid -- and they generally put it in exactly those terms.

So, as you read any such discussions, particularly so in Internet news groups (NG), decide for yourself when a rational argument is being applied and when disinformation, psyops (psychological warfare operations) or trickery is the tool. Accuse those guilty of the latter freely. They (both those deliberately seeking to lead you astray, and those who are simply foolish or misguided thinkers) generally run for cover when thus illuminated, or -- put in other terms, they put up or shut up (a perfectly acceptable outcome either way, since truth is the goal.) Here are the twenty-five methods and seven traits, some of which don't apply directly to NG application. Each contains a simple example in the form of actual (some paraphrased for simplicity) from NG comments on commonly known historical events, and a proper response.[examples & response- http://www.proparanoid.com/truth.html]

Accusations should not be overused -- reserve for repeat offenders and those who use multiple tactics. Responses should avoid falling into emotional traps or informational sidetracks, unless it is feared that some observers will be easily dissuaded by the trickery. Consider quoting the complete rule rather than simply citing it, as others will not have reference. Offer to provide a complete copy of the rule set upon request (see permissions statement at end):





Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation

Note: The first rule and last five (or six, depending on situation) rules are generally not directly within the ability of the traditional disinfo artist to apply. These rules are generally used more directly by those at the leadership, key players, or planning level of the criminal conspiracy or conspiracy to cover up.


1. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. Regardless of what you know, don't discuss it -- especially if you are a public figure, news anchor, etc. If it's not reported, it didn't happen, and you never have to deal with the issues.

2. Become incredulous and indignant. Avoid discussing key issues and instead focus on side issues which can be used show the topic as being critical of some otherwise sacrosanct group or theme. This is also known as the 'How dare you!' gambit.

3. Create rumor mongers. Avoid discussing issues by describing all charges, regardless of venue or evidence, as mere rumors and wild accusations. Other derogatory terms mutually exclusive of truth may work as well. This method which works especially well with a silent press, because the only way the public can learn of the facts are through such 'arguable rumors'. If you can associate the material with the Internet, use this fact to certify it a 'wild rumor' from a 'bunch of kids on the Internet' which can have no basis in fact.

4. Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent's argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues.

5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary 'attack the messenger' ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as 'kooks', 'right-wing', 'liberal', 'left-wing', 'terrorists', 'conspiracy buffs', 'radicals', 'militia', 'racists', 'religious fanatics', 'sexual deviates', and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.

6. Hit and Run. In any public forum, make a brief attack of your opponent or the opponent position and then scamper off before an answer can be fielded, or simply ignore any answer. This works extremely well in Internet and letters-to-the-editor environments where a steady stream of new identities can be called upon without having to explain criticism, reasoning -- simply make an accusation or other attack, never discussing issues, and never answering any subsequent response, for that would dignify the opponent's viewpoint.

7. Question motives. Twist or amplify any fact which could be taken to imply that the opponent operates out of a hidden personal agenda or other bias. This avoids discussing issues and forces the accuser on the defensive.

8. Invoke authority. Claim for yourself or associate yourself with authority and present your argument with enough 'jargon' and 'minutia' to illustrate you are 'one who knows', and simply say it isn't so without discussing issues or demonstrating concretely why or citing sources.

9. Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues except with denials they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect.

10. Associate opponent charges with old news. A derivative of the straw man -- usually, in any large-scale matter of high visibility, someone will make charges early on which can be or were already easily dealt with - a kind of investment for the future should the matter not be so easily contained.) Where it can be foreseen, have your own side raise a straw man issue and have it dealt with early on as part of the initial contingency plans. Subsequent charges, regardless of validity or new ground uncovered, can usually then be associated with the original charge and dismissed as simply being a rehash without need to address current issues -- so much the better where the opponent is or was involved with the original source.

11. Establish and rely upon fall-back positions. Using a minor matter or element of the facts, take the 'high road' and 'confess' with candor that some innocent mistake, in hindsight, was made -- but that opponents have seized on the opportunity to blow it all out of proportion and imply greater criminalities which, 'just isn't so.' Others can reinforce this on your behalf, later, and even publicly 'call for an end to the nonsense' because you have already 'done the right thing.' Done properly, this can garner sympathy and respect for 'coming clean' and 'owning up' to your mistakes without addressing more serious issues.

12. Enigmas have no solution. Drawing upon the overall umbrella of events surrounding the crime and the multitude of players and events, paint the entire affair as too complex to solve. This causes those otherwise following the matter to begin to lose interest more quickly without having to address the actual issues.

13. Alice in Wonderland Logic. Avoid discussion of the issues by reasoning backwards or with an apparent deductive logic
which forbears any actual material fact.

14. Demand complete solutions. Avoid the issues by requiring opponents to solve the crime at hand completely, a ploy which works best with issues qualifying for rule 10.

15. Fit the facts to alternate conclusions. This requires creative thinking unless the crime was planned with contingency conclusions in place.

16. Vanish evidence and witnesses. If it does not exist, it is not fact, and you won't have to address the issue.

17. Change the subject. Usually in connection with one of the other ploys listed here, find a way to side-track the discussion with abrasive or controversial comments in hopes of turning attention to a new, more manageable topic. This works especially well with companions who can 'argue' with you over the new topic and polarize the discussion arena in order to avoid discussing more key issues.

18. Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad Opponents. If you can't do anything else, chide and taunt your opponents and draw them into emotional responses which will tend to make them look foolish and overly motivated, and generally render their material somewhat less coherent. Not only will you avoid discussing the issues in the first instance, but even if their emotional response addresses the issue, you can further avoid the issues by then focusing on how 'sensitive they are to criticism.'

19. Ignore proof presented, demand impossible proofs. This is perhaps a variant of the 'play dumb' rule. Regardless of what material may be presented by an opponent in public forums, claim the material irrelevant and demand proof that is impossible for the opponent to come by (it may exist, but not be at his disposal, or it may be something which is known to be safely destroyed or withheld, such as a murder weapon.) In order to completely avoid discussing issues, it may be required that you to categorically deny and be critical of media or books as valid sources, deny that witnesses are acceptable, or even deny that statements made by government or other authorities have any meaning or relevance.

20. False evidence. Whenever possible, introduce new facts or clues designed and manufactured to conflict with opponent presentations -- as useful tools to neutralize sensitive issues or impede resolution. This works best when the crime was designed
with contingencies for the purpose, and the facts cannot be easily separated from the fabrications.

21. Call a Grand Jury, Special Prosecutor, or other empowered investigative body. Subvert the (process) to your benefit and effectively neutralize all sensitive issues without open discussion. Once convened, the evidence and testimony are required to be secret when properly handled. For instance, if you own the prosecuting attorney, it can insure a Grand Jury hears no useful evidence and that the evidence is sealed and unavailable to subsequent investigators. Once a favorable verdict is achieved, the matter can be considered officially closed. Usually, this technique is applied to find the guilty innocent, but it can also be used to obtain charges when seeking to frame a victim.

22. Manufacture a new truth. Create your own expert(s), group(s), author(s), leader(s) or influence existing ones willing to forge new ground via scientific, investigative, or social research or testimony which concludes favorably. In this way, if you must actually address issues, you can do so authoritatively.

23. Create bigger distractions. If the above does not seem to be working to distract from sensitive issues, or to prevent unwanted media coverage of unstoppable events such as trials, create bigger news stories (or treat them as such) to distract the multitudes.

24. Silence critics. If the above methods do not prevail, consider removing opponents from circulation by some definitive solution so that the need to address issues is removed entirely. This can be by their death, arrest and detention, blackmail or destruction of theircharacter by release of blackmail information, or merely by destroying them financially, emotionally, or severely damaging their health.

25. Vanish. If you are a key holder of secrets or otherwise overly illuminated and you think the heat is getting too hot, to avoid the issues, vacate the kitchen.

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/118155

[Defender]

Be especially careful of those that demonstrate consistency yet subtlety at the same time.So my disguise would work better if I was inconsistantly overbearing?

[Cebu_4_2]

Many of us are here alone with many online accomplices, to be alone among friends is calming and the accomplices are to me friends although I may have never met in person we share many of the same thought.

I got scammed at that other forum, forget the name and I still reap the spam reward for befriending someone that seemed to be nice...

<- Boom! sucker.

I am not afraid to make new friends just cautious, haven't even PM'd many folks due to the prior mistake and I feel as tho I am truly missing out for when/if the SHTF scenario.

Feel free to add me as friend, but being cautious for both our sakes.

[Defender]

Many of us are here alone with many online accomplices, to be alone among friends is calming and the accomplices are to me friends although I may have never met in person we share many of the same thought.

I got scammed at that other forum, forget the name and I still reap the spam reward for befriending someone that seemed to be nice...

<- Boom! sucker.

I am not afraid to make new friends just cautious, haven't even PM'd many folks due to the prior mistake and I feel as tho I am truly missing out for when/if the SHTF scenario.

Feel free to add me as friend, but being cautious for both our sakes.
Typical ploy for infiltrators, using the 'woe is me' to evoke sympathy plea along with the 'I was hurt so I must be safe' gambit.

But I'm obviously one as well who's pretending to be a good guy by outing a bad guy (who really isn't.)

:sarc: (more proof by using :sarc: to pretend to undo what you did.) :sarc: :sarc:

[Wandering Wastrel]

The time has come to be very careful in what you say, how you say it, and who you associate yourself with.
I must respectfully disagree -- the time to be very careful was several years ago. Because what we say on the internet tends to be available for many years after we say it, if not forever. (Or as close to forever in practical terms as to make little difference.)

It's not just "what am I typing into a forum, today, that might get me noticed". It's "what did I type in two years ago that, when searched for and found today, will get me noticed". Or possibly worse yet, "what did I already type in that has already gotten me noticed... and tracked".

I've wondered if GIM1 going away, even if a lot of it was archived in various places, might actually end up saving a few people's lives, by keeping them off certain lists.

[1970 Silver Art]

The "greatest poster" has returned to GSUS. Welcome back Dysgenic. :)

Yeah I think that it is common knowledge (or maybe not so common to some people) that the gov't goons are monitoring the internet forums.

[wildcard]

Go and hide in a hole if you wish, but you won't live one instant longer. Your fate is fixed. Fear profits a man nothing.

Not aimed at anyone, but this is what I believe. They have us all already. I'll be here waiting when they come.

[JDRock]

Government shills are real- although I personally believe that all of them aren't 'bad people'.
Data mining ops are real.
One thing about "government infiltrators" in militias, internet forums, gun groups, secession movements and such.....they fit into two general categories.

1) Fully aware insiders.
2) Ignorant government emloyees.

In my opinion most if not all fit into category #1.
What if our rulers used ordinary government employees to infiltrate forums or organizations where governmedia lies are exposed for what they are, where secret societies and zionists are exposed? Our rulers would be taking a great risk in placing these people among us because many would see the merits of our positions and become sympathetic to our causes.

Category #1 is very busy and very short on manpower these days. Regardless of how much money they have, they don't have endless human resources. Some things they just have to do for themselves and forum infiltration is one of them.


excellent.....i also believe EVERY group or forum over a certain # of members /posters is infiltrated.....just look at hos gim went from free speech to complere capitulation of all the founding fathers stood for, in a short time after the member/visitor #s dramatically increased.

[Neuro]

good point linetrimmer.

Thats why i like forums like these...cause I can talk about real stuff and give my Undereducated opinions on stuff :)

In the real world most probably wouldn't listen....Here, I kinda have a captive audience ....lol..
Stackerken you may be undereducated by corporate standards, but you do generally speak with wisdom, your thoughts are always appreciated by me and by many others here (I am certain)...

[Neuro]

Be especially careful of those that demonstrate consistency yet subtlety at the same time.So my disguise would work better if I was inconsistantly overbearing?

Damn, consistency and subtlety, sounds like me... :o

[VX1]

It is said a picture is worth a thousand words.


Posterchild

[BoatingAccident]

I may be naive, but I'll give my two copper cents worth..

If there is monitoring, it's not coming from local law enforecement, nor the state. It would be fed gov.

Now, considering, we have not broken any laws...it would require a lot of man hours to follow one message board and profile all the users there. There is 100's, if not 1000's, of websites that dwarf this site...

I do believe big brother is watching, but there's 350 million people here in the US. Each one of us is just too small of a fish to go after. The government just doesn't have the resources to profile like that.

So, IMO, I'm not concerned personally.

[Horn]

The best weapon to thwart infiltrators, is being able to infiltrate oneself.

[Hellsbane]

Its speculative and argumentative as to who the nuts are. Why waste time attempting to paint one group as nuts while they veiw the other group as nuts?

[Hatha Sunahara]

I may be naive, but I'll give my two copper cents worth..

If there is monitoring, it's not coming from local law enforecement, nor the state. It would be fed gov.

Now, considering, we have not broken any laws...it would require a lot of man hours to follow one message board and profile all the users there. There is 100's, if not 1000's, of websites that dwarf this site...

I do believe big brother is watching, but there's 350 million people here in the US. Each one of us is just too small of a fish to go after. The government just doesn't have the resources to profile like that.

So, IMO, I'm not concerned personally.


I share your almost total lack of concern. However I think their shills and trolls are profiling us into categories. And when the time comes, they have a set of priorities for the categories to go after. The people who do this are the 'agentur'. There is no shortage of them. Most are useful idiots--people looking for a job, willing to do anything to survive. You can buy a lot of 'intelligence' for very little money.

Hatha

[Quantum]

Most message forums are enemy territory now. Those that aren't will be in short order as they will quickly attract the wrong kind of attention from the wrong kind of people. All of those things we used to speculate about on GIM1- the tinfoil hat stuff- is not only real but it is far more pervasive and entrenched than most would ever dream.

Government shills are real- although I personally believe that all of them aren't 'bad people'.
Data mining ops are real.
The really nasty underbelly of a lot of these forums are the occultists, the fake Christians, and the Satanists. These people will lie about what they believe in, they will try and befriend their enemies, and they will shadow the good guys.

If you get too close to the truth, you WILL attract attention to yourself. The time has come to be very careful in what you say, how you say it, and who you associate yourself with. There is an art that some of us have started to master- of saying something without really saying it. Remember- Jesus spoke in parables.
The bad guys give themselves away if you know what to look for. I'm not about to give away 'the tools of my trade', but in general watch for pushing and pulling, abstraction, and misdirection. Don't make it a witch hunting expedition- the bad guys will repeatedly engage in behaviours that lack sincerity and waste time. Be especially careful of those that demonstrate consistency yet subtlety at the same time.
Pay attention to the subject matter. It's very common for the bad guys to concede the points that they don't care about- even in seemingly vociferous approval- only to equivocate the points that they do. OR they will slowly reverse a previously taken position without commiting to do so.

PAY ATTENTION! There is no cookie cutter failsafe way to discern these things, but if you pay close attention it will become very clear to you very quickly who is shucking and jiving out there. There are many more than you think.

That is all.

dys




Wisdom ^^^^^

[Quantum]

Go and hide in a hole if you wish, but you won't live one instant longer. Your fate is fixed. Fear profits a man nothing.

Not aimed at anyone, but this is what I believe. They have us all already. I'll be here waiting when they come.


Fear no one but He who can destroy body and soul.

But neither remove your camouflage so that the enemy can see you while you cannot see him.

Speak the truth, but understand that excessive candor can serve the Devil.

[k-os]

I think it's possible that there are infiltrators, spies, or whatever you want to call them (shills?).

They've already won if they succeed in making us (more) paranoid.

[Desolation LineTrimmer]

They've already won if they succeed in making us (more) paranoid.


Perfectly true.

[Apocalypto]

Most message forums are enemy territory now. Those that aren't will be in short order as they will quickly attract the wrong kind of attention from the wrong kind of people. All of those things we used to speculate about on GIM1- the tinfoil hat stuff- is not only real but it is far more pervasive and entrenched than most would ever dream.

So... what you're saying is, most forums are enemy territory. So we're in a forum right now. So are you my enemy? Sorry dude, you lost me.

Stop being afraid, say what you believe, and don't let fear run your life. Live the freedom you want to exist, and that freedom WILL exist.

[StackerKen]

< ........Im not worried....

[Uncle Salty]

There is an art that some of us have started to master- of saying something without really saying it.

Today, I had breakfast with the wind, lunch with the water, and dinner with the trees.

When my cup is full, I will then begin to dance, but only on Tuesdays.

[1970 Silver Art]

< ........Im not worried....


Yeah Stacker. You do not look too worried at all. You look relaxed to me. ;D

[StackerKen]

;D

[vacuum]

I think its possible there may be a few people who are paid by the gov to participate in message forums, but I think the vast majority of their presence is in these two categories:
(1) Those who have been mind controlled by society/media and think they are helping law enforcement and the government out by keeping tabs on what goes on in places like this and reporting "potential threats". These are the so-called "do gooders", neighborhood watch folks, etc.
(2) Super computers which scan for keywords and behaviors and can possibly automatically create profiles for different users. They may also track users not by user names but by IP address, so they know all sites you visit and everything you post. I think this is a very real possibility as the gov monitors all traffic and computers have become very very cheap.

[dysgenic]

I`ve got a few things:

1. Most people that aren't concerned have no reason to be concerned. It`s the people that know the truth (or are close to it) that get targeted. Unfortunately, we are presently in the minority.
2. There is already a verifiable war against the truth that has been incrementally increasing for some time. Think Hutaru, GIM1, chilling effect, internet2, HR1955, net neutrality, arrests made based on seemingly innocuous `threats` on Alex Jones` message forum.

this post is to be continued sorry computer issues

[Percival]

You need to understand there is a difference between a debunker who posts disinformation, like for example in a 9-11 discussion, which I really dont care much about on a prefessional level, its meaningless to me how close you believe you get to the truth about that because I know what happened and it doesnt matter what the truth movement believes, these types of things may be of interest to a shill who is working to debunk that particular discussion for what reason I cannot say, just as those who seek to debunk the Kennedy assassination which I personally do believe there was more than a lone gunman, but these are not matters of concern to the type organization I work with, our concern is specifically with those who are prone to violence, inciting violence in others and threatening individual people or entire races of people. If these people are "marked" and we find out they are armed and have an arrest history for violence etc, then yes they will be targeted and investigated and dealt with in such a way to make sure that what they say on internet forums is only talk and not something that they plan to actually carry out.

As for censoring discussion about anything else, no matter how controversial it may be, I dont care about that and when I debate it from the other side and get pissed off about some of the racist antisemitic crap I read, that is personal and not professional. I can only speak for myself and those who work under my command though.

The internet gives alot of dangerous people who are prone to violence and not afriad to speak of it and try and recruit others, a voice to be heard and those people need to be watched both here and in their real lives for the protection of all of us.


Aside from that, enjoy yourselves and have fun, debate ideas, learn from eachother and follow the rules of the forum administration and you have nothing to worry about.


I can say for sure there is nobody on this forum who is taken seriously, those who may be have been determined to be all talk and no walk, which makes up about 99.9% of any forum, its that small 1% we are concerned about and that takes people with a combination of balls and an unmedicated mental disorder/chemical imbalance in the brain, while there are plenty of the latter I dont see many of the former on the net too often, and I have seen none here in the short time this forum has been around.

[BoatingAccident]

Aside from that, enjoy yourselves and have fun, debate ideas, learn from eachother and follow the rules of the forum administration and you have nothing to worry about.

Well, I'm glad you are in charge. It's great you have the internet all under control and all.....

But, who the fuck are you, to tell me what I can, and can not post about?

I'm sorry, but this needs to be said. We have freedom of speech here. Your scare tactics will not work, because we know our rights.

You come on here, to scare folks. It's not right, it's you, that needs to be censored.

[Percival]

Where did I say anything about what you could not post or where did I suggest I am in charge. You obviously didnt read what I said and it was an extension of a post I made earlier in another thread. I was simply explaining that not all shills, if thats what you all call them, are trying to censor what you have to say, I am not, I am only concerned with people who make threats against others which is NOT FREE SPEECH it is illegal and will be dealt with accordingly. :oo-->

I posted nothing to scare anyone, you must be paranoid, in fact what I posted was an attempt to get people to NOT be scared since the OP posted a rant making everyone feel they are being watched and thats not the case. Duh.

[Dave Thomas]

LOL Percival how do you go about figuring out the identity of people who obviously don't post with their real name and address?

Do you call up the webhost and say, "Hi I'm Percival, and Sir Splort called Mr. Plonk a doo doo head and threatened to flood Mr. Plonks house with thousands of gallons of chocolate pudding, on a website hosted by your network, please hand over the httpd logs immediately!"

I don't think that's the way it works.

[vacuum]

LOL Percival how do you go about figuring out the identity of people who obviously don't post with their real name and address?

Do you call up the webhost and say, "Hi I'm Percival, and Sir Splort called Mr. Plonk a doo doo head and threatened to flood Mr. Plonks house with thousands of gallons of chocolate pudding, on a website hosted by your network, please hand over the httpd logs immediately!"

I don't think that's the way it works.
You'd probably be surprised. Someone with friends in law enforcement can probably get them to make a generic request for information which probably must be granted under the patriot act or something.

[Dave Thomas]

I don't buy it.

Percival's best work was with the ice cream truck. That was awesome.

This "I'm an internets Perry Mason" phase of his trolling is just so popular right now because just about every tinfoil wearer in this forum thinks that about 75% of people who post here are actually paid by the government to post on a forum. And of course he's getting tons of traction out of it.

Good job Percy, keep em foaming at the mouth!

[Saul Mine]

Everybody needs to develop one skill in particular; don't say what you think without thinking.

[Desolation LineTrimmer]

Percival, You are such a creep you are entertaining.

[wildcard]

Everybody needs to develop one skill in particular; don't say what you think without thinking.


Screw that noise. Patrick Henry and Samuel Adams were firebrands that didn't hold back. Of all the revolutionaries these guys would have been the ones I'd want to hang out with.

[Awoke]

Glad to see you here again, Dysgenic.

Was wondering about you...

[iOWNme]

The Dys is back......

"The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it."



One must actually close one's eyes to see with one's mind.

[dysgenic]

One of my favorite quotes and a great segui into my next point: this struggle isn't new, only the scope of it. A lot people have been fighting this battle for a very long time. When you open your eyes, first you see the bad guys, but eventually you see the good guys, too.

dys

[dysgenic]

You've got it. Another thing that may help- PDT once told me that one of the tools of the bad guys is a mind fu$%##$$!. Such a simple yet profound truth. If you are on the lookout for this one thing, you won't go far wrong when trying to determine exactly what you are dealing with.

Last thing- beware of flattery.

dys

[TPTB]

Last thing- beware of flattery.

dys


But Dude, I can't help it, you're so sizzling hawt... :-*