Effing cops...I swear I've had enough of this bullsh*t.

[Bullion_Bob]

So I decide to go for a two minute drive to get gas to save time for Monday morning. It a quiet side street, one stop sign, and one set of lights away.

Anyhow, captain avenger rookie cop nabs me for not making a full complete stop at the stop sign. I stopped enough that my back end settled back on the suspension, and I continued on. Apparently this was not enough for him.

I swear sometimes, these guys are just right over the fuucking top with their bullsh*t.

I drive this street all the time, as I live on it. Never had a problem in 12 years. The guy starts going on about what if there was a fire, of what if someone had been killed. Unbelievable this guy.

On the way back I see he has someone else pulled over. There is never a problem at that intersection (it's a T... not even a 4 way), and all of the sudden out of the blue we have this guy stalking a stop sign all ticket happy, like a fat kid on a smartie.

I asked him person to person if he thought it was acceptable for my insurance to go up over that. He said it absolutely it was, and then went on about how I don't know the law, and I'm not a police officer.

I asked him what he wants me to do with the ticket as, I would not physically take take it from him. He just threw it at me into the car and walked away.

What kind of person does it take to go out and act like that towards people, and feel right about it? Honestly. Judgment call...hello?? I wasn't speeding at all, not in a rush, and everything was absolutely safe. Honestly....WT(flying)F???

/rant

[Spectrism]

There is a brave cop willing to face down those dangerous stop sign aggressors. Some day he will be graduated to handle traffic light questions.

When TSHTF, that guy will get his ass handed to him.

[gunDriller]

I swear sometimes, these guys are just right over the fuucking top with their bullsh*t.

it's tax time.

that there bullshit cop is a form of taxation without representation. there was a time when it would have been considered unlawful.

before they had cars, you didn't have to worry about stuff like this.

if you have the stomach for it, run for city council on the platform of eliminating that cop's job to save the town money. you'd probably win.

[cedarchopper]

I have a pre-trial hearing on 5/19 for a ticket I received. I filed a Request for Discovery over 2 weeks ago and haven't received the requested information to prepare for trial. I'm not sure if their policy is to wait until after the pre-trial to respond or what, but if they don't dismiss at pre-trial, I'm going to have my day in court with a jury.

There is a lot of "Highwayman" going on with cops...and I ain't laying down for it.

[Bullion_Bob]

I swear sometimes, these guys are just right over the fuucking top with their bullsh*t.

it's tax time.

that there bullsh*t cop is a form of taxation without representation. there was a time when it would have been considered unlawful.

before they had cars, you didn't have to worry about stuff like this.

if you have the stomach for it, run for city council on the platform of eliminating that cop's job to save the town money. you'd probably win.


Honestly nothing would make me happier right now, I'm that angry. I'm mad enough that I want to speak to his supervisor, and register a formal complaint on the grounds he should be fired for public harassment.

Parasitic POS excuse for a human being.

The level of anger I feel right now is not good because I know, at best, it's going to be one continuous waste of my time and money. For nothing.

"To serve and protect"....absolutely miserable failure on both counts. To "harass and exploit".

[Ponce]

WTSHTF the only way that they will be able to operate in safety will be as a pack and not as an individual..........as an individual they will be just like you and I and also a target of opportunity.

[Twisted Titan]

Honestly nothing would make me happier right now, I'm that angry. I'm mad enough that I want to speak to his supervisor, and register a formal complaint on the grounds he should be fired for public harassment.

[cedarchopper]

Why don't you fight it in court if you are so upset...it only takes one person on the jury to be sympathetic.

[Bullion_Bob]

Why don't you fight it in court if you are so upset...it only takes one person on the jury to be sympathetic.


It will definitely be going to court, but that is also is costing me. I should be able to charge back the time I spent dealing with this guys BS, and it gets deducted from his department's operating budget. It may make his type think twice about their actions.

It's all so stupid when you really think about what's really going on, and what actually took place.

[Horn]

He just threw it at me into the car and walked away.

He did that, really? :o

He probably would have stood a better chance in court if he could say you refused to take it.

If your rear set down, you were stopped.

[Bullion_Bob]

Honestly nothing would make me happier right now, I'm that angry. I'm mad enough that I want to speak to his supervisor, and register a formal complaint on the grounds he should be fired for public harassment.






lol...that actually helped.

[Bullion_Bob]

He just threw it at me into the car and walked away.

He did that, really? :o

He probably would have stood a better chance in court if he could say you refused to take it.

If your rear set down, you were stopped.


It's also a manual transmission, and I started off in first gear. Go figure. Ugh...

[Horn]

If it was a right hand turn, I'd say you have your case in the bag.

[Book]

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc62/69HEMI01/andydesk.jpg

Stop means stop in Mayberry son.

:)

[cedarchopper]

I'm sure the procedures are different state to state and city to city, but I responded to my ticket as soon as it was filed at the clerks office (3 days from the ticket's issuance)...followed up by a letter to the prosecutors office Requesting Discovery (versus a formal motion to the court for Discovery). I wrote my letter roughly along these lines :

http://tipmra.com/new_tipmra/Speeding_Defense_Discovery.htm

[Ash_Williams]

Dunno where you live, but here's what I would do:

1. Tell the you want your trial.
2. Ask for discovery/disclosure/whatever.
3. Write a note saying you are eager to proceed with this trial ASAP.
4. Get the measurements of this sign. Then find the regulations for stop signs. Often to be valid, they must be a certain height from the road, distance from the road, etc. If this is an old sign it might not be up to the latest standards.
5. If it applies, look for the bylaw that says there is a stop sign there. Where I live they need to have each stop sign in a town listed in the bylaws. Otherwise, who knows, someone might have just stolen one from elsewhere and stuck it there.

4 & 5 are the easiest wins possible (but the least likely). Also easy is when the cop doesn't show up.

The reason for #3 is some places will throw your case out if your right to a speedy trial has been violated. They do it here after about a year. You write the note to demonstrate that you have in no way waived that right. Now, you want adjournments - that's where your disclosure/discovery comes into play. You should be able to request an adjournment if they haven't provided it or it's not complete. It probably won't be complete, so you make the request again and this time point out what is missing. Now when trial comes up you say you need an adjournment so the prosecution can properly respond to your disclosure request. You may also need time to look over the discovery you just received (that means if they send it to you a couple days before the trial, or hand it to you when you show up to court, it doesn't count, request an adjournment.) That's one wasted day for the cop, and it's far less likely he'll show up the second time. I've had trials that were adjourned twice, and both time the cop didn't show the second time. You're also trying to drag this out, each adjournment that you can blame on the prosecutor infringes on your right to a speedy trial, eventually enough time may go by that you can request the ticket be tossed out on those grounds.

Of course if you end up with a trial and the cop is there you want to destroy him. He's gonna say you didn't stop and the judge will believe him. So go at him from every angle, he's gonna say he remembers the day in question and the ticket he gave you so ask him what color the interior of the car is. You got his notes from disclosure/discovery so ask him something that isn't in them but is still memorable and you can prove him wrong. Ask him if he's had stop sign tickets thrown out before? Why? Wasn't he also sure those people hadn't stopped? You want him to look stupid. He remembers giving you the ticket but he doesn't remember if there was a passenger in your car? When you catch him BSing then it's not a lie, he was just 'mistaken'. You have to be a polite asshole. He was mistaken about how well he remembers the day, he was mistaken when his other tickets got thrown out, he was mistaken when he didn't see your car stop.

[Bullion_Bob]

Cedar and Ash, wow , nice.

Thanks for the info!

[Plastic]

I'd just go to court and tell the judge I choose jail in lieu of fine... If only more people had the balls to do the same..... Instead of dumping money into the coffers of the city/county/state the vampiric entity would be bled dry providing 3 hots and a cot to many thousands of people.

[LuckyStrike]

When TSHTF, that guy will get his ass handed to him.


Your exactly right, I take comfort in that fact believe me.

[cedarchopper]

I'd just go to court and tell the judge I choose jail in lieu of fine... If only more people had the balls to do the same..... Instead of dumping money into the coffers of the city/county/state the vampiric entity would be bled dry providing 3 hots and a cot to many thousands of people.


Why the defeatist attitude? Why not fight them and either win through the jury decision or have it dismissed? If and after you lose the case, maybe do as you are suggesting if it is some kind of principle fight for you...but you are not going to beat them on jail expenses, but you might on court procedures or using their "valuable" lawyer and court time.

[Ash_Williams]

I've never tried this but I always thought of going to court with two witnesses of the same gender that look significantly different from each other. Then asking the cop which one was the passenger when he gave the ticket. 5 possible answers (witness 1, witness 2, both, neither, I don't know) so he's probably going to get it wrong. If he says it's the wrong one you call that one up to say they were never in the car, or if he says neither you call one up to say they were the passenger. It might be too ballsy and offend the court though.

[Plastic]

maybe do as you are suggesting if it is some kind of principle fight for you...





Passive resistance...

It is like saying do what you want to me, I refuse to support your system of corruption.

[Liquid]

I asked him what he wants me to do with the ticket as, I would not physically take take it from him. He just threw it at me into the car and walked away.




Bullion, quoted above is a very important point. First, did you actually sign the ticket?

If not, there's no ticket. You have to sign it. The judge will just dismiss this on the spot if questioned. The officer will look like an ass.

Second, if you did sign the ticket....he still can't force you to accept it. If you tell the judge you refused the ticket, and he threw it in the car 'forcing' you to take it, you will put the officer in a position to either lie about it, or again look like an ass.


This ticket will get dismissed if you fight it. I hope you do.

[Ash_Williams]

It is like saying do what you want to me,

I don't really want them to do what they want to me though.

You could always fight the ticket with the goal being to waste as much of their time and resources as possible, whether you win or not. Should give the same result as what you were suggesting but you spend a few days in court instead of a few days in jail.

[Celtic Rogue]

The doing time in lieu of fine would be a great way to break the system,,, but only if everybody opted to go that route. I don't think most counties could afford a large increase in their already overwhelmed correctional system populations.

[Bigjon]

There is a wealth of info on this site, about beating a traffic ticket.
http://section520.org/lawlectures.html
http://state-citizen.org/p2.html

There is also a wealth of info on state citizenship vs US citizenship.

[gunDriller]

This ticket will get dismissed if you fight it. I hope you do.


yeah - sounds like you'll win !

[RJB]

If you take it to court, be aware that those bastards will lie through their teeth to convict you. It can be bad if you're not prepared or unprovable that they are lying. It can also be a good thing if you can prove he's lying.

[cedarchopper]

Had my pre-trial hearing today in Municipal Court. Met with the prosecutor and we worked out the details of the trial (August 11th). Went before the Judge to get approval on my Motion for Discovery...left with a DVD of the entire so-called violation...I can easily beat this. I'm actually looking forward to my day in court with a jury. Thirty minutes each on the jury questioning, 15 minutes each on opening, closing, and questioning the witness (cop).

[madfranks]

I asked him what he wants me to do with the ticket as, I would not physically take take it from him. He just threw it at me into the car and walked away.




Bullion, quoted above is a very important point. First, did you actually sign the ticket?

If not, there's no ticket. You have to sign it. The judge will just dismiss this on the spot if questioned. The officer will look like an ass.

Second, if you did sign the ticket....he still can't force you to accept it. If you tell the judge you refused the ticket, and he threw it in the car 'forcing' you to take it, you will put the officer in a position to either lie about it, or again look like an ass.


This ticket will get dismissed if you fight it. I hope you do.


This is interesting... what would happen if you refused to sign the ticket when the cop hands it over for you to sign?

[sirgonzo420]

I asked him what he wants me to do with the ticket as, I would not physically take take it from him. He just threw it at me into the car and walked away.




Bullion, quoted above is a very important point. First, did you actually sign the ticket?

If not, there's no ticket. You have to sign it. The judge will just dismiss this on the spot if questioned. The officer will look like an ass.

Second, if you did sign the ticket....he still can't force you to accept it. If you tell the judge you refused the ticket, and he threw it in the car 'forcing' you to take it, you will put the officer in a position to either lie about it, or again look like an ass.


This ticket will get dismissed if you fight it. I hope you do.


This is interesting... what would happen if you refused to sign the ticket when the cop hands it over for you to sign?


You don't have to sign the ticket.

They will just leave the ticket in your possession and then you will have been "served".

[cedarchopper]

If you refuse to sign the ticket they will arrest you. A ticket is an arrest, but you are given the choice of voluntarily appearing in court in lieu of being physically compelled to appear on the spot...most of the time. Sometimes they will arrest you on the spot even if you agree to sign the ticket promising to appear at a later date if they think you won't show up (ie. out of towner, out of stater, ect.)

[sirgonzo420]

If you refuse to sign the ticket they will arrest you. A ticket is an arrest, but you are given the choice of voluntarily appearing in court in lieu of being physically compelled to appear on the spot...most of the time. Sometimes they will arrest you on the spot even if you agree to sign the ticket promising to appear at a later date if they think you won't show up (ie. out of towner, out of stater, ect.)


It varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

The past couple times I've been ticketed, the cop did not ask me to sign anything.

[johnlvs2run]

here's what I would do

Ash, that information is very helpful, thanks.



Had my pre-trial hearing today in Municipal Court. Met with the prosecutor and we worked out the details of the trial (August 11th). Went before the Judge to get approval on my Motion for Discovery...left with a DVD of the entire so-called violation...I can easily beat this. I'm actually looking forward to my day in court with a jury. Thirty minutes each on the jury questioning, 15 minutes each on opening, closing, and questioning the witness (cop).


What all is on the DVD? Does that mean there is video of the incident?

I'm glad you can beat it and hope that you do. Keep us posted. :)

[cedarchopper]

[johnlvs2run]

What all is on the DVD? Does that mean there is video of the incident?

I'm glad you can beat it and hope that you do. Keep us posted. :)
[/quote]

The whole non- incident was recorded on the cops car camera. If I can figure out how to post it I will. I'm being charged with Failure to Yield ROW Turning Left, but it was a perfectly time and executed left turn. The oncoming car neither slowed down, braked, or was impeded in anyway...I was well into the street I was turning on when he passed behind me in the rear view mirror...now that I have the DVD, it will be a done deal. I suspect it will be dismissed before trial...why would they want to lose and look stupid?

[cedarchopper]

If anybody has any tips on transferring a DVD to Youtube using Windows 7 I'll do it.

[gunDriller]

If anybody has any tips on transferring a DVD to Youtube using Windows 7 I'll do it.



have you ever used Youtube ?

it's simple. once you have an account set up, you hit the "upload" button and it brings up a file browser.

it likes *.avi & *.wmv file types, maybe also some MPG-category files. it doesn't like Flash video as an input, even though it ends up creating a flash.

in other words, you just give it a normal video file as an input, and it both uploads it and compresses it. you can lose some image fidelity in the process ... practice makes perfect 8)

[bellevuebully]

Of course if you end up with a trial and the cop is there you want to destroy him. He's gonna say you didn't stop and the judge will believe him. So go at him from every angle, he's gonna say he remembers the day in question and the ticket he gave you so ask him what color the interior of the car is. You got his notes from disclosure/discovery so ask him something that isn't in them but is still memorable and you can prove him wrong. Ask him if he's had stop sign tickets thrown out before? Why? Wasn't he also sure those people hadn't stopped? You want him to look stupid. He remembers giving you the ticket but he doesn't remember if there was a passenger in your car? When you catch him BSing then it's not a lie, he was just 'mistaken'. You have to be a polite asshole. He was mistaken about how well he remembers the day, he was mistaken when his other tickets got thrown out, he was mistaken when he didn't see your car stop.


You are one bad-ash m.f.'r. Ouch. Sickem boy.

+1 Karma just for the ruthlessness.