Woman killed by police after brandishing weapon at census employee

[skidmark]

http://www.appeal-democrat.com/news/family-95100-city-woman.html

A 67-year-old Yuba City woman was shot and killed by officers when she pointed a shotgun at them and refused to put it down, Yuba City police said Friday.

Victoria Helen Roger-Vasselin was pronounced dead late Thursday at her home at 764 Mariner Loop in an affluent neighborhood on the city's far south side.

An autopsy Friday showed she died of "multiple gunshot wounds," said Sutter County Sheriff's Department spokeswoman Brenda Baker.

A neighbor reported hearing five or six shots.

Roger-Vasselin was the sister of the late Thomas E. Mathews, a Yuba County judge and district attorney who died in 2005.

"They shot her dead," Roger-Vasselin's distraught son, Christian Biscotti, said outside the house Friday morning.

"I think she was just startled" by late visits to her home, he said.

Before Biscotti could say more, a relative or family friend took him by the arm and led him inside, shutting the door.

Officers went to the Mariner Loop home after receiving a call at 9:04 p.m. about weapons being brandished, according to a police incident log. In a press release, police did not say exactly when the shooting happened.

Police scanner traffic indicated the shooting happened about 10:20 p.m.

A U.S. Census worker "had been confronted by residents who pointed a firearm at the worker and said they would not answer any questions and closed the door," said police spokeswoman Shawna Pavey.

When two male officers arrived, 51-year-old Lionel Craig Patterson answered the door, armed with a handgun, police said. "As officers were dealing with the male, a female approached the door with a shotgun and ignored officers' orders to release the weapon. As the female advanced on officers, she continued to point the shotgun at officers in a threatening manner and the two officers fired their service weapons, hitting the female," the police report said.

Both officers fired their guns, said Pavey, adding she didn't believe Roger-Vasselin or Patterson fired.

Both officers were uniformed and clearly identifiable as police, Pavey said.

Toxicology tests will determine if alcohol or drugs were a factor in the incident, Pavey said.

Sonny Le, regional spokesman for the U.S. Census Bureau, offered a different version of events. The female census taker knocked on the door at 7:45 p.m. about 25 minutes before sunset when workers are supposed to quit. The Roger-Vasselin home was the last one on her list before she went home, he said.

Patterson answered the door and first talked with the census taker, Le said.

"The visit was quite routine" until Roger-Vasselin approached with a gun, he said.

The census taker immediately left and called her supervisor. It was 9:04 p.m. when police were called, after news of the incident traveled up the Census Bureau's chain of command, Le said.

Le called the incident especially tragic because the census taker, like Roger-Vasselin, is a Yuba City resident.

Patterson was arrested on suspicion of assault with a weapon on a police officer and was being held without bail Friday in Sutter County Jail.

The officers have been placed on routine administrative leave while the Sutter County District Attorney's Office determines if the shooting was justified. District Attorney Carl Adams said he did not yet have all the facts.

A neighbor, Bob Dhaliwal, said he was in bed when he heard people, including one woman, shouting and yelling, followed by five or six shots. When he came outside, officers with guns drawn had the male suspect on the ground, then took him away in a patrol car, he said.

"All I saw was him being arrested. I assumed he shot somebody," Dhaliwal said.

Patterson lives at the same address. Pavey and neighbors said it wasn't clear what the relationship was between him and Roger-Vasselin.

Dhaliwal and other neighbors said they didn't know Roger-Vasselin well.

"She kept to herself," Dhaliwal said.

One neighbor, who declined to give her name, described Roger-Vasselin as "pleasant but reserved," almost reclusive.

"She was much more social when she first moved in. The economy was better then," the neighbor said.

Neighbors said they had also received nighttime visits from a female census worker.

Roger-Vasselin owned the house for about three years, but rented it for about six months while she worked in Hawaii, returning to Yuba City six to nine months ago, the neighbor said.

When her mother, Lillian Mathews-Crumrine, died in 1998, Roger-Vasselin lived in Kauai, Hawaii.

When Roger-Vasselin's brother died in 2005, she was living in San Francisco. Then 63 and a regional membership executive at the Ritz-Carlton Hotel, she was one four employees involved in an age-discrimination lawsuit against the Marriott Corp.

[SLV^GLD]

Police respond to weapons brandished call.

Police arrive to a leveled shotgun.

Police go from yelling about putting it down to drawing sidearms more or less simultaneously.

Shotgun wielder got precisely what would be expected by inducing this particular situation.

Police lived, shotgun wielder died.

There is an easy lesson to learn, here.

[Ponce]

It happen at 19:45 and it doesn't get dark till 21:00.........sorry to say that it was justifiable......but still..........f**k the census worker for calling in about it.


First post of the day...........good morning to one and all.

[EE_]

Police respond to weapons brandished call adrenalin pumping

Police arrive (excited at the thought to kill a citizen and get away with it) to a leveled shotgun in an old woman's hands.

Police go from yelling about putting it down to drawing sidearms more or less simultaneously like they are about to have pig sex.

Shotgun wielder got precisely what would be expected by inducing this particular situation, (as reported).

Police lived and got their nut off, shotgun wielder died possibly unjustly?

There is an easy lesson to learn, here.
Should have taken one of the pigs with her?

[SLV^GLD]

Police respond to weapons brandished call adrenalin pumping

Police arrive (excited at the thought to kill a citizen and get away with it) to a leveled shotgun in an old woman's hands.

Police go from yelling about putting it down to drawing sidearms more or less simultaneously like they are about to have pig sex.

Shotgun wielder got precisely what would be expected by inducing this particular situation, (as reported).

Police lived and got their nut off, shotgun wielder died possibly unjustly?

There is an easy lesson to learn, here.
Should have taken one of the pigs with her?



Now, now, EE_, you said that, Not I.... ;D

[Ponce]

By the way........what I wrote did not mean that I sided with the cops but simply that I looking at it from the point of view of a cop......... not only do you have to see it as we see it but also as someone who is willing to kill at the drop of a hat.......the same as the American soldier in Iraq who shot this unarmed civilian just standing there and doing nothing.

[cedarchopper]

Census worker came at night.

Resident was suspicious.

Census worker lied about night time visits to supervisors, supervisors called police.

Resident was afraid.

Police killed her.

[sunshine05]

I'm always suspicious of these cases where the cops show up at the door and are greeted by the resident pointing a gun at them. Would anyone really do that? This reminds me of the case that happened in Pittsburgh maybe a year ago. I don't think we're hearing the real story.

[sunshine05]

An officer-involved shooting ends in the death of a Yuba City grandmother. All after police say she threatened a census worker on her property.

Christian Biscotti is in disbelief after learning his mother, 67- year old Victoria Roger-Vasselin was shot and killed by Yuba City Police, Thursday night. Biscotti told Action News, "We feel like this whole thing was a huge mistake and we hope it's not a cover up and we hope to get down to the truth."

Yuba City Police say they responded to Roger-Vasselin's home on Mariner Loop after a US Census worker called 911 to say they had been threatened with a gun by Roger-Vasselin and her boyfriend, 51-year old Lionel Patterson.

"They went out to dinner, my mom and Lonni, and came back and they were probably a little disoriented. They got the knock on the door and I think they just reacted in fear," said Biscotti.

Officers say when they arrived at the house, Patterson answered the door with a handgun and as officers tried to deal with him, Roger-Vasselin also approached them with a shotgun, ignoring the officers' orders to put down the gun. Biscotti explained, "They shot right through the wall where they didn't even see my mom, there wouldn't even be a clear view of sight and shot her dead right there seven times."

Biscotti says his mother was a charismatic business woman and author and says he is certain his mother reacted in fear and was simply trying to protect herself.

Biscotti said, "It just shouldn't have happened. You just don't shoot a 67- year old grandmother."

The two police officers who shot Roger-Vasselin are on administrative leave while the Sutter County District Attorney's Office continues it's investigation.

Link to Article (http://www.khsltv.com/content/localnews/story/Officer-Involved-Shooting-Kills-Yuba-City/71e7Fy3bpEWD0wBYiQSG6w.cspx)


EDIT: Changed long link to named link to prevent horizontal scrolling. -Gaillo

[Brent]

Police respond to weapons brandished call.

Police arrive to a leveled shotgun.

Police go from yelling about putting it down to drawing sidearms more or less simultaneously.

Shotgun wielder got precisely what would be expected by inducing this particular situation.

Police lived, shotgun wielder died.

There is an easy lesson to learn, here.


Exactly.

Don't point guns at the police unless you are either A) Going to use it. or B) Want to get shot repeatedly.

Or both.

Stupid people and cops don't go well together.

[Ponce]

I dislike cops 95% .......... but........ in many instances they only have a split second to decide if to shoot or not, the way that they think is 1= everyone is after them and 2= is the person holding a gun high on something and is the person about to shoot?
(remember that I am thinking now as they do) ............they will now get a paid vacation and interviewed by IA and seen by a shrink.......and then......back to the job.

[1970 Silver Art]

Pointing a gun at the cops is a losing cause for the person pointing the gun at the cops. The cops always win that battle.

[madfranks]

Census worker came at night.

Resident was suspicious.

Census worker lied about night time visits to supervisors, supervisors called police.

Resident was afraid.

Police killed her.


I think you're right. According to the story, the census worker knocked on the door at 7:45 but cops weren't called until after 9:00pm. If over an hour had really gone by the incident was long over and there was no reason for the cops to be called or show up. I bet the census worker knocked on the door right before 9:00pm and startled the homeowners. I know in my neighborhood if anyone knocked on my door that late I'd be armed too. The now scared census worker exaggerates the story, the cops get called, resident was afraid, cops killed her. My heart goes out to the family.

[RJB]

From the article.


Patterson was arrested on suspicion of assault with a weapon on a police officer and was being held without bail Friday in Sutter County Jail.Funny, I thought it was the Police who shot the old lady... ::)

[Quantum]

Police respond to weapons brandished call.

Police arrive to a leveled shotgun.

Police go from yelling about putting it down to drawing sidearms more or less simultaneously.

Shotgun wielder got precisely what would be expected by inducing this particular situation.

Police lived, shotgun wielder died.

There is an easy lesson to learn, here.


Yes: Fire First.

[Quantum]

Pointing a gun at the cops is a losing cause for the person pointing the gun at the cops. The cops always win that battle.


Surrender in the face of tyranny is not a virtue.

[Veni, vidi...evigilavi!]

I rarely side with gov't point in handling business, but having a relative that works part-time as one of these Census interviewers, he told me they are suppossed to report incidents if their health/life is at risk, be it unleashed dogs or people that threaten you. The old lady may have been taken by surprise, but the rest of you keep in mind the worker must've been scared shitless as well, and if her son was there I wonder if he did little to diffuse the confusion?

>>If over an hour had really gone by the incident was long over and there was no reason for the cops to be called or show up>>madfranks
Even if the cops showed up much later than the incident, such occurences must be reported by federal employees and local authorities must respond to investigate the matter.

[Quantum]

My understanding, from a variety of sources, is that the Census worker pulled the "it's the law" card on this family, when told they would not be participating. That, not the firearm response, was the initial escalation. This family was not poor, and lived in an "upscale" neighborhood. They probably assumed this "we're from the government and here to help you" Census worker could have been an attempted home invasion.

The woman killed by the Satanic thugs:

http://www.news10.net/genthumb/genthumb.ashx?e=3&h=240&w=320&i=/assetpool/images/100521081716_roger-vasselin-320.jpg

[Quantum]

http://www.khou.com/news/local/Fake-census-worker-invades-home-kills-owner-93242534.html

HPD: Man killed in home invasion after suspect poses as census worker

by Tiffany Craig / 11 News

khou.com

Posted on May 9, 2010 at 6:30 PM

Updated Wednesday, May 12 at 6:52 PM

HOUSTON—A man was killed and his family members beaten after three suspects barged into a north Houston home Saturday afternoon, police said.

Investigators said one of the suspects pretended to be a census worker to gain entry into the house, located in the 400 block of Truman.

Family members said the victim’s son opened the door for the suspects, believing they were with the census.

Larry Johnson Jr., the nephew of the victim, said the suspects tied up and beat his cousin and aunt after barging into to the home.

Johnson said his uncle, Reginald "Pete" Haynes, walked in on the crime and was ambushed.

"They tied him up and stabbed him and tried to submerge him in water," Johnson said.

Haynes later died at the hospital.

Family members said the men ransacked the house for two hours.

"They were looking for money and my aunt gave them everything that they had and it wasn’t enough for them," Johnson said.

Neighbor Randell Harmon said he even watched the suspects leave after the crime and had no idea what had happened.

"I saw three gentlemen walk out and I didn’t think anything of it," Harmon said. "They didn’t look at me. They got in the truck and they left."

The incident left people in the community fearful about who might come knocking at their door.

"They’ve taken something precious from us," Johnson said. "They really have."

Neighbors said census-takers started working their street weeks ago.

According to HPD, the suspect who claimed to be a census worker showed no ID badge. Investigators said they don’t have a good description of any of the suspects.

[Horn]

Another case of government meddling not ending up well, at all.

The couple probably had a bunch of dough stashed in the home, keeping it away from failing banks.

[Ponce]

I don't know if you guys read this but in Las Vegas another woman took out a shoot gun after the census worker refused to leave her home......the sencus worker is pressing charges.

[skidmark]

From the local paper:



A routine visit by a U.S. Census Worker on Thursday evening turned deadly when Yuba City police officers shot and killed a woman they said had first threatened the worker with a gun, then later confronted officers with a shotgun.

Sutter County authorities have identified the woman as Victoria Roger-Vasselin, 67, and arrested Lionel Craig Patterson, 51, who was with Roger-Vasselin at the house on Mariner Loop when the shooting happened.

Patterson is being held without bail at the Sutter County jail on suspicion of assault with a firearm on a peace officer, online jail records show.
Patterson
Lionel Craig Patterson is being held without bail at the Sutter County jail.

*

Department spokeswoman Shawna Pavey said the census worker visited the Mariner Loop house between 7:45 and 8:15 p.m.

Sonny Le, a census regional spokesman, said the worker, a Yuba City resident, showed her badge and introduced herself to a man who answered the door. From inside the house, the worker said she heard a woman saying that they do not want to participate in the census survey.

When the census worker tried to further explain the process, she said she saw a gun pointed at her.

"She was shaken and went to her car," Le said. The worker called her supervisors, who told her to report the incident to the police, Le said.

Pavey said police received the call shortly after 9 p.m. and officers visited the worker at her home to interview her.

Officers arrived at the Mariner Loop house about 10 p.m. Pavey said a man answered the door with a handgun. Officers successfully persuaded him to give up his gun, but a brief struggle ensued at the entryway when the man resisted arrest, Pavey said.

As an officer was trying to handcuff the man on the ground, the woman came outside with a shotgun. Officers ordered her to put down the gun, but "she ignored the order and continued to advance with the shotgun pointing at the officers," Pavey said.

Two officers fired. Roger-Vasselin died at the scene, authorities said.

http://www.modbee.com/2010/05/21/1177127/woman-killed-after-confronting.html#storylink=omni_popular

[Ponce]

The cops went AFTER 10 pm..........it was already dark and they could have been home invaders.

The made the guys give up his gun AND THEN ARRESTED HIM.......for what?

Remember that now day many home invasions are being made with invaders wearing officila looking police uniform.

[cigarlover]

Police knock on the door.
I have nothing to say. go away unless you have awarrant.
Police say have a nice day or they kick the door in without a warrant.

I think thats the proper way to handle it.

[dysgenic]

Cops murder another innocent person. Even by their own account, it was murder. But we all know that their account is a lie. Or maybe we don't all know it, as members of this forum feel it necessary to stomp on a murdered elderly woman's grave while believing the the report of criminals and liars. Sad.

dys

[Liquid]

Police knock on the door.
I have nothing to say. go away unless you have awarrant.
Police say have a nice day or they kick the door in without a warrant.

I think thats the proper way to handle it.


This is the best way. Excellent post, and much wisedom there. Also, do not step one foot outside your door, when you do this. Stay inside your home.

By showing a firearm, you are threatening the police. Their safety. They will do what they need to do..to go home, at the end of the night.

Don't give them the luxury of 'choice'. You have rights in your homes, enforce them. By forcing a warrant from the police.

[Twisted Titan]

Dont open your door

Talk through it

But dont open it

May seem or look stupid

But at least you are still living

Anytime LEO's show up it just goes from bad to worse to FATAL


T

[Liquid]

Dont open your door

Talk through it

But dont open it

May seem or look stupid

But at least you are still living

Anytime LEO's show up it just goes from bad to worse to FATAL


T


You might have to open the door TA, to see who's a callin'.

The point, is to not be paranoid, but know your rights. But, don't be steppin' outside your door to find out.

Understand your rights, and know the game. LEO, they know the game too. We just need to know it as well, too. That's all.

[Quantum]

They will do what they need to do..to go home, at the end of the night.


That would be leaving free men alone.

Some of us intend to shoot to kill any home invader.




By forcing a warrant from the police.


Like some piece of paper, issued upon perjured testimony, justifies home invasion?

[sunshine05]

Dont open your door

Talk through it

But dont open it

May seem or look stupid

But at least you are still living

Anytime LEO's show up it just goes from bad to worse to FATAL


T


I never open my door anymore. I talk through it with the dog barking in the background:). You just never know. Someone could easily be dressed up as LEO.

[Liquid]

That would be leaving free men alone.

Some of us intend to shoot to kill any home invader.




By forcing a warrant from the police.


Like some piece of paper, issued upon perjured testimony, justifies home invasion?


Actually that would be to leave free men alone. Free men, know, to not take the lives of other free men. You are free, in your home, and I understand how you want to protect that.

Just know, that the cop that has to come to your door....HAS to come, is trying to protect his freedom as well.

[Quantum]

Actually that would be to leave free men alone. Free men, know, to not take the lives of other free men. You are free, in your home, and I understand how you want to protect that.


My home, my castle. A cop on my property is a guest. A cop trying to break into my home is a home invader. I have an absolute right to live freely inside my home provided I am not actively harming someone within my home against their will.

A home invader is aiming to harm me or my family. I will use whatever force is necessary to resist an attack on my home. Knowing that home invaders of all persuasions are willing to use lethal force against me, I shall use preemptive force once they enter my home. We've seen consistently that satanic pigs will kill innocent people in a home even when such innocent person offers no resistance (witness the little girl killed recently). It is plain insane to not kill a rabid dog who's willing to do that, at your family's expense.




Just know, that the cop that has to come to your door....HAS to come, is trying to protect his freedom as well.


Fvck him and his "freedom." He has no freedom to invade my home. The only intensely narrow exception would be if I were holding a person against their will inside my home and/or someone is overtly yelling for help from inside.

"Drugs" are not an exception, guns are not an exception, nearly everything warrants upon perjured testimony are issued is not an exception.

Home invasion under color of "authority" is TYRANNY.

[Twisted Titan]

That would be leaving free men alone.

Some of us intend to shoot to kill any home invader.




By forcing a warrant from the police.


Like some piece of paper, issued upon perjured testimony, justifies home invasion?


Actually that would be to leave free men alone. Free men, know, to not take the lives of other free men. You are free, in your home, and I understand how you want to protect that.

Just know, that the cop that has to come to your door....HAS to come, is trying to protect THE ECONOMIC VIABILTY AND "AUTHORITY" OF THE STATE WHICH HE HAS A VESTED FINANICIAL INTEREST IN AND WITH THE ADDITIONAL PERKS OF POWER TRIPPING ON THE "LAW ABIDING" CITIZEN WITHOUT FEAR OF REPRISIAL AND MULTIPLE LAYERS OF STATE PROTECTION


Fixxed it for ya.

[Liquid]

Home invasion under color of "authority" is TYRANNY.


Quantum, I agree with you, mostly at least.

I'm stating honest facts here. The Popo show up at your doorstep, what do you do?

You need to play the game, THEY play. That's what you do. You play that game, by understanding where THEY are coming from...

You've got shitloads of rights, in your home. Nobody, can enter your home, unwarranted. If they do, you have justification to act on self defense. The PD knows this.

As the advise earlier, don't step out of your home. The police need a warrant to enter. You have rights. juist know them.

[old steel]

Wondering why not so many responses on this related thread?

Perhaps because it's in the news section of the forum?

http://gold-silver.us/forum/news-and-current-events/police-%27anti-government%27-ohio-man-son-killed-arkansas-officers/

[Quantum]

Home invasion under color of "authority" is TYRANNY.


Quantum, I agree with you, mostly at least.

I'm stating honest facts here. The Popo show up at your doorstep, what do you do?

You need to play the game, THEY play. That's what you do. You play that game, by understanding where THEY are coming from...

You've got sh*tloads of rights, in your home. Nobody, can enter your home, unwarranted. If they do, you have justification to act on self defense. The PD knows this.

As the advise earlier, don't step out of your home. The police need a warrant to enter. You have rights. juist know them.




I do NOTHING that justifies police visitation to me. I harm no one. I don't take drugs and don't have "illegal" guns (and even if I did, that's my God-given right anyways). If they show up, I'm not opening the door. "I have nothing to say."

[Liquid]

I do NOTHING that justifies police visitation to me. I harm no one. I don't take drugs and don't have "illegal" guns (and even if I did, that's my God-given right anyways). If they show up, I'm not opening the door. "I have nothing to say."




Quantum, that's it, in a nutshell. You do that, you have nothing to worry about. Besides, what you do behind your closed door is your business, nobody elses.

It's pretty simple when you break it down actually. Set your limits, and justify when those that break them.

I was just trying to show, that cops are breathing folks. They will defend their right to live, and justify it as well.

[Trinity]

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[Tumbleweed]

This is a real story I thought I'd share. A friend of mine is an american indian. Him and some of his friends were together in his home on the reservation. There was an indian woman there that they didn't want there and they wanted her to leave. She didn't want to but she did and she was on the war path. She went to the indian police and told them that my friend and his friends there with him were doing drugs. The indian police showed up at my friends house. They wanted him to come outside. He opened the window so they could talk. He told them no. They said if he didn't come out they were coming in. He said " come ahead and that he and his friends had enough guns and amunition to take care of them when they came through the door". the indian police thought about this for a while then got in their vehicle and went home. I guess they didn't have a swat team to call.

[Quantum]

Quantum, that's it, in a nutshell. You do that, you have nothing to worry about.


There are countless cases of the cops busting in to someone's home for illicit reasons; wrong house, false accusations, unconstitutional purposes. I wish it was a case of "nothing to worry about."




Besides, what you do behind your closed door is your business, nobody elses.


At least 80% of so-called "tactical entries" (police home invasions) are done on the false "authority" of accusations of "drugs" or "weapons."




It's pretty simple when you break it down actually. Set your limits, and justify when those that break them.


I have set my limits, as noted above. But again: ANY home invasion, "warrant" or not, results in total response.




I was just trying to show, that cops are breathing folks. They will defend their right to live, and justify it as well.


Cops jeopardize their "right to live" when they invade someone's home. I'm cool with them aiming to keep the peace. I, and many other American gun owners/freedom-lovers, are NOT cool with them conducting Soviet-style home invasions at 3 in the morning (or any other time) because a "judge" says they can.

Police must understand that Vanderboegh's "No More Free Wacos" and Bill Cooper's "Dear Officer" are deadly serious warnings. Government enforcers simply will not have free reign in this country any more, to enforce Stalin-style "authority." Be a part of the community, keep the peace, and they are our allies. Continue to hurt and kill citizens because some lawyer-whore wrote some words on paper, and they risk never seeing their loved ones again. Terrorist tactics and tacticool gangsterwear do not scare us. The likelihood of defeat does not deter us from protecting our liberty.

[Quantum]

This is a real story I thought I'd share. A friend of mine is an american indian. Him and some of his friends were together in his home on the reservation. There was an indian woman there that they didn't want there and they wanted her to leave. She didn't want to but she did and she was on the war path. She went to the indian police and told them that my friend and his friends there with him were doing drugs. The indian police showed up at my friends house. They wanted him to come outside. He opened the window so they could talk. He told them no. They said if he didn't come out they were coming in. He said " come ahead and that he and his friends had enough guns and amunition to take care of them when they came through the door". the indian police thought about this for a while then got in their vehicle and went home. I guess they didn't have a swat team to call.


Excellent! The fighting spirit of the Red Man remains!

[Liquid]

There are countless cases of the cops busting in to someone's home for illicit reasons; wrong house, false accusations, unconstitutional purposes. I wish it was a case of "nothing to worry about."

At least 80% of so-called "tactical entries" (police home invasions) are done on the false "authority" of accusations of "drugs" or "weapons." I have set my limits, as noted above. But again: ANY home invasion, "warrant" or not, results in total response.

Cops jeopardize their "right to live" when they invade someone's home. I'm cool with them aiming to keep the peace. I, and many other American gun owners/freedom-lovers, are NOT cool with them conducting Soviet-style home invasions at 3 in the morning (or any other time) because a "judge" says they can.



80% based upon false accusations is awfully high, if you have a link to support that I sure would like to see it.

Tumbleweeds example is a perfect illustration of this point. You can tell the police to piss off and there's nothing they can do about, without a warrant. A warrant requires probable cause, which is a lot more than a rumour from some upset woman. Warrants are hard to get, and require more than just a suspicion of a crime. 99% of us never need to worry about that. Now, that is. Things could change though.

[Quantum]

80% based upon false accusations is awfully high, if you have a link to support that I sure would like to see it.


I didn't say false accusations, I said false authority.

The regime has no authority to criminalize possession & use of plants or the possession & peaceful/self-defensive use of things called weapons. They claim the power to do so, and falsely claim they have "authority," which they do not. Might makes right is not authority. Most of the claims of "drugs" or "weapons" are probably true, but that's not the point. You cannot swear that a "crime" is being committed when the words on paper (the statute) you claim "criminalizes" such activity is null & void. Warrants are hardly difficult to get when "drugs," or "weapons," or "terrorism" is the cause of action.

The current Police State is a pure struggle for power, and it's high time that many more citizens push back. It will only get worse until the police have a tangible & meaningful obstacle, and that is gunfire when they implement their abominations of home invasions. "Lobby the government" is a sick joke - we're well beyond the "peaceful petition for redress of grievances," since the regime doesn't even offer the courtesy of a reply, if they allow us to protest at all. Lawsuits are absolutely useless, since suing a thug-agency is merely suing ourselves; any tort damages paid out are from the taxpayers.