Owners Stop Paying Mortgages, and Stop Fretting

[Twisted Titan]

Owners Stop Paying Mortgages, and Stop Fretting

Wendy Pemberton, a barber in Florida, with a customer, Howard Cook. She stopped paying her mortgage two years ago.


ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. — For Alex Pemberton and Susan Reboyras, foreclosure is becoming a way of life — something they did not want but are in no hurry to get out of.


Chip Litherland for The New York Times

Alex Pemberton and Susan Reboyras stopped paying the mortgage on their house in St. Petersburg, Fla., last summer.

Foreclosure has allowed them to stabilize the family business. Go to Outback occasionally for a steak. Take their gas-guzzling airboat out for the weekend. Visit the Hard Rock Casino.

“Instead of the house dragging us down, it’s become a life raft,” said Mr. Pemberton, who stopped paying the mortgage on their house here last summer. “It’s really been a blessing.”

A growing number of the people whose homes are in foreclosure are refusing to slink away in shame. They are fashioning a sort of homemade mortgage modification, one that brings their payments all the way down to zero. They use the money they save to get back on their feet or just get by.

This type of modification does not beg for a lender’s permission but is delivered as an ultimatum: Force me out if you can. Any moral qualms are overshadowed by a conviction that the banks created the crisis by snookering homeowners with loans that got them in over their heads.

“I tried to explain my situation to the lender, but they wouldn’t help,” said Mr. Pemberton’s mother, Wendy Pemberton, herself in foreclosure on a small house a few blocks away from her son’s. She stopped paying her mortgage two years ago after a bout with lung cancer. “They’re all crooks.”

Foreclosure procedures have been initiated against 1.7 million of the nation’s households. The pace of resolving these problem loans is slow and getting slower because of legal challenges, foreclosure moratoriums, government pressure to offer modifications and the inability of the lenders to cope with so many souring mortgages.

The average borrower in foreclosure has been delinquent for 438 days before actually being evicted, up from 251 days in January 2008, according to LPS Applied Analytics.

While there are no firm figures on how many households are following the Pemberton-Reboyras path of passive resistance, real estate agents and other experts say the number of overextended borrowers taking the “free rent” approach is on the rise.

There is no question, though, that for some borrowers in default, foreclosure is only a theoretical threat for a long time.

More than 650,000 households had not paid in 18 months, LPS calculated earlier this year. With 19 percent of those homes, the lender had not even begun to take action to repossess the property — double the rate of a year earlier.

In some states, including California and Texas, lenders can pursue foreclosures outside of the courts. With the lender in control, the pace can be brisk. But in Florida, New York and 19 other states, judicial foreclosure is the rule, which slows the process substantially.

In Pinellas and Pasco counties, which include St. Petersburg and the suburbs to the north, there are 34,000 open foreclosure cases, said J. Thomas McGrady, chief judge of the Pinellas-Pasco Circuit. Ten years ago, the average was about 4,000. “The volume is killing us,” Judge McGrady said.

Mr. Pemberton and Ms. Reboyras decided to stop paying because their business, which restores attics that have been invaded by pests, was on the verge of failing. Scrambling to get by, their credit already shot, they had little to lose.

“We could pay the mortgage company way more than the house is worth and starve to death,” said Mr. Pemberton, 43. “Or we could pay ourselves so our business could sustain us and people who work for us over a long period of time. It may sound very horrible, but it comes down to a self-preservation thing.”

They used the $1,837 a month that they were not paying their lender to publicize A Plus Restorations, first with print ads, then local television. Word apparently got around, because the business is recovering.

The couple owe $280,000 on the house, where they live with Ms. Reboyras’s two daughters, their two dogs and a very round pet raccoon named Roxanne. The house is worth less than half that amount — which they say would be their starting point in future negotiations with their lender.

“If they took the house from us, that’s all they would end up getting for it anyway,” said Ms. Reboyras, 46.

more at the link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/01/bu...er=rss&emc=rss

[Twisted Titan]

Freedom is just another name for having nothing else to lose........

Janis Joplin

[Dave Thomas]

Anyone know how long you need to occupy a property before you get squatters rights? 5 years?

LOL.

[sirgonzo420]

Anyone know how long you need to occupy a property before you get squatters rights? 5 years?

LOL.



For some reason I want to say 7 years, but I really have no idea and it probably varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

But good question!

Haha

[Libertytree]

I know for a fact that lots of people have and or are employing this tactic...BUT..... there's also another side to the story as well. The banks themselves are trying to slow the process down too, by not corresponding with people who are in trouble and are trying to talk with someone about their case. The banks are dragging their feet, saying they will be in contact and calls are never returned, instead the usual form letters, forebearance notices and threats are sent out in the mail. Even upon multiple calls made by panicked home owners get the shuffle treatment, I know this for a fact, first hand.

Here in south Florida the reason is simple, they don't want or are so overwhelmed with the sheer numbers that they cannot manage it all. That and they don't want these houses back on an already saturated market, that only serves to drive the prices of the glut of homes they have now even lower.

There's still that nagging question as to actually holds the notes, if anyone? They say you can find it at the county clerks office but it seems as if the lawyers are running cover for the banksters as I've yet to see the note produced in the case I'm familiar with.

[Ponce]

You don't buy your prime house as an investment but to have a place to established roots.........if you agreed on $1,200 a months for thirty years and you are still working
they go ahead and keep on paying.

It feels very good to own a house (to me a home) free and clear and with only $550.00 a year in taxes........besides, you want to leave your kids something where they can have a sense of security................me? my X will get it if I die first.

[Twisted Titan]

Do whatever it takes and stack your cash for as long as possible

Something has got to give and give in a MASSIVE way in the next 36 months IMO


T

[Nomen luni]

I understand that a lot of people are struggling with lost jobs and simply cannot afford to pay their mortgages, but it kind of annoys me when people think they should only be liable for the current value when their house has dropped. Those same people were not be clammering to give the money back to the bank when the price was rising. Aren't they somewhat like the banks themselves? Keep the profits, and hope to nationalise the losses?

[Libertytree]

You don't buy your prime house as an investment but to have a place to established roots.........if you agreed on $1,200 a months for thirty years and you are still working
they go ahead and keep on paying.

It feels very good to own a house (to me a home) free and clear and with only $550.00 a year in taxes........besides, you want to leave your kids something where they can have a sense of security................me? my X will get it if I die first.


As long as property taxes exist you will NEVER own your home, because whenever a government can force you to pay or face seizure you are nothing but a tenant on the land.

[Twisted Titan]

I understand that a lot of people are struggling with lost jobs and simply cannot afford to pay their mortgages, but it kind of annoys me when people think they should only be liable for the current value when their house has dropped. Those same people were not be clammering to give the money back to the bank when the price was rising. Aren't they somewhat like the banks themselves? Keep the profits, and hope to nationalise the losses?


[i]Absolute poppycock!!!!

The ENTIRE mortage was a shame from day one as the money for it was created out of thin air and the "home owner" was left with the liabilty and the banks have the oppertunity to get a real tangible asset and the abilty to attach a lein to the person for doing absolutely NOTHING but a making an electronic book entry


And somehow in the midst of this massacre if the "Homeowner" becomes lucid and attempts to protect their interests they are labled as "the bad guy"???


What the bloody hell are you thinking???


T

[Grand Master Melon]

I understand that a lot of people are struggling with lost jobs and simply cannot afford to pay their mortgages, but it kind of annoys me when people think they should only be liable for the current value when their house has dropped. Those same people were not be clammering to give the money back to the bank when the price was rising. Aren't they somewhat like the banks themselves? Keep the profits, and hope to nationalise the losses?


[i]Absolute poppycock!!!!

The ENTIRE mortage was a shame from day one as the money for it was created out of thin air and the "home owner" was left with the liabilty and the banks have the oppertunity to get a real tangible asset and the abilty to attach a lein to the person for doing absolutely NOTHING but a making an electronic book entry


And somehow in the midst of this massacre if the "Homeowner" becomes lucid and attempts to protect their interests they are labled as "the bad guy"???


What the bloody hell are you thinking???


T


Seriously? So the banks is all BS because they're loaning out money? Doesn't that make the borrower equally responsible for being party to the fraudulent transaction or is it that only the evil bankers can ever be guilty of anything?

There was no gun put to the head of the person receiving the mortgage it was a consentual contract.

[Nomen luni]

Wow, I feel like I've just been told off for being naughty! ;D

The banks are no good guys. I never said that. In fact, there is a lot of information out there to show that these aggressive loans were allowed in full knowledge of the defaults they would cause. However, people took the loans in full knowledge of the commitment they were making. My sister actually handed the keys to her home back and I don't blame her, however, people paying no mortgage and going out for steak meals kinda stings for those of us who were sensible and knew it was too much risk to get in into. Roll on the socialist utopia!

[chad]

i like the quote from the lady who borrowed money, then decided not to pay it back: "they're all crooks."

yeah, they're the crooks, not you who borrowed a big ass pile of money and then decided to walk.

lord knows i hate me some banks, but the country is fucked when people's morality hits zero on the "do what you said you were going to do" scale.

[Libertytree]

The funny thing to me is that the entire monetary system is based on fraud and corruption and here we are looking at the end users of said fraud and calling them out for their nefarious fraudulent actions.

Oh the irony!!!! It seems like some type of economic 'One flew over the coocoo's nest' movie.

[Nomen luni]

I don't know, Chad. What does morality mean when the game's rigged? I did the sensible thing and saved, rather than getting a mortgage on a house I could not afford. As a result, I watched house prices accelerate away from my means, pumped up by borrowed money. Now I tend to think, just do what's best for you and yours. There's no morality in this crap game.

[Quantum]

I understand that a lot of people are struggling with lost jobs and simply cannot afford to pay their mortgages, but it kind of annoys me when people think they should only be liable for the current value when their house has dropped. Those same people were not be clammering to give the money back to the bank when the price was rising. Aren't they somewhat like the banks themselves? Keep the profits, and hope to nationalise the losses?


There is no such thing as a moral obligation to a bank.

[Quantum]

the country is f*cked when people's morality hits zero on the "do what you said you were going to do" scale.


LOL

The source of Western morality, the Bible, declared that all debts should be expunged every 7 years.

Morality to people, always - morality to banks, never. Just a "business decision."

[chad]

I don't know, Chad. What does morality mean when the game's rigged? I did the sensible thing and saved, rather than getting a mortgage on a house I could not afford. As a result, I watched house prices accelerate away from my means, pumped up by borrowed money. Now I tend to think, just do what's best for you and yours. There's no morality in this crap game.


yeah, i guess i agree with you, i just think these banks stories where people aren't paying their mortgages because "banks are evil," on some level are exremely hilarious. all of these people hate banks, but they loved them when they were suing the house as an atm machine.

fuck it, i have $13.52 in my checking account, the rest is in the bank of "my basement."

[Ponce]

Liberty, what I get for those $550.00 a year is a lot......we have a good fire department here and only five minutes from my home....I did monitor a few classes at the local school and it was fairly good..........I think that I am gettin a big bang for my buck.

[Bobthetomato]

I think there are two other reasons for this. First, if they take the house they must take title and pay the taxes. Second, if they take the house they must write down the value.

[Quantum]

Liberty, what I get for those $550.00 a year is a lot......we have a good fire department here and only five minutes from my home....I did monitor a few classes at the local school and it was fairly good..........I think that I am gettin a big bang for my buck.


The point remains: you DO NOT "own" your home if you must pay property tax. You merely have very low rent.

[Libertytree]

Ponce,

Anytime anyone/the STATE can use force, be it economic force or physical force to get you to do what they want it means you dance when they say dance. You may think it's a fair trade off but I'll have to disagree my friend.

[Olmstein]

Anyone know how long you need to occupy a property before you get squatters rights? 5 years?

LOL.



For some reason I want to say 7 years, but I really have no idea and it probably varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

But good question!

Haha


It's called "Adverse Possession", and the time required varies from state to state. In AZ, it takes 10 years.


Adverse possession is a concept in law which concerns title of a real property.

In common law, adverse possession is the process by which title to another's real property is acquired without compensation, by holding the property in a manner that conflicts with the true owner's rights for a specified period. Circumstances of the adverse possession determine the type of title acquired by the disseisor (the one who obtains the title as a result of the adverse possession action), which may be fee simple title, mineral rights, or other interest in real property.

Adverse possession's origins are based both in statutory actions and in common law precepts, so the details concerning adverse possession actions vary by jurisdiction. The required period of uninterrupted possession is governed by the statute of limitations. Other elements of adverse possession are judicial constructs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_possession

[MNeagle]

If Foreclosures Don't Double Soon, Clearing The Real Estate Mess Will Take 8 Years

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/mark-hanson-mortgage-foreclosure-2010-6#ixzz0pdn21Hxz




Bottom Line: If monthly Foreclosures double (hypothetically) to 180k from April’s record 92.5k and stay at that level — based upon the 1) monthly average Notice-of-Default (NOD) 2) HAMP and private mortgage mod volume 3) and conservative cures and redefault rates — it will take 42 months to clear the portion of the 8mm loans presently in the distressed pipeline that will ultimately be liquidated. If Foreclosures remain at April’s record high of 92.5k, it will take 101 months.

With 900k record foreclosures in 2009 (but only 2.3mm since Jan 2007), 2.16mm (180k*12) needed every year for the next four years to purge the distress inventory plaguing and overhanging the market, and potentially fewer existing sales in 2010 than the 5.15 million in stimulus-driven 2009, it is easy to understand the challenge facing the housing market ex-stimulus.

I am a firm believer that the only way the housing market stands a chance of maintaining momentum post-tax credit is for Foreclosures to surge because they are what are in demand. In fact, over the past few months investor demand has waned due to the lack of Foreclosures and competition from swarms of first-timers waiving Obama coupons who they refuse to bid against. First timers, who are notorious for turning it off and on overnight, now make up some 50% of all sales according to the most recent Existing Home Sales report. That is a shaky foundation.



Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/mark-hanson-mortgage-foreclosure-2010-6#ixzz0pdnMs7QA

[I am me, I am free]

Freedom is just another name for having nothing else to lose........

Janis Joplin


Actually, that song 'Me and Bobby McGee' was penned by Rhodes Scholar Kris Kristofferson and the line is: Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.

Consider the source - a friggin' (Cecil) Rhodes Scholar.

[Nomen luni]

i just think these banks stories where people aren't paying their mortgages because "banks are evil," on some level are exremely hilarious. all of these people hate banks, but they loved them when they were suing the house as an atm machine.Couldn't agree more, my friend.

[Grand Master Melon]

I understand that a lot of people are struggling with lost jobs and simply cannot afford to pay their mortgages, but it kind of annoys me when people think they should only be liable for the current value when their house has dropped. Those same people were not be clammering to give the money back to the bank when the price was rising. Aren't they somewhat like the banks themselves? Keep the profits, and hope to nationalise the losses?


There is no such thing as a moral obligation to a bank.


Yeah who gives a shit about contracts!

[I am me, I am free]

I understand that a lot of people are struggling with lost jobs and simply cannot afford to pay their mortgages, but it kind of annoys me when people think they should only be liable for the current value when their house has dropped. Those same people were not be clammering to give the money back to the bank when the price was rising. Aren't they somewhat like the banks themselves? Keep the profits, and hope to nationalise the losses?


There is no such thing as a moral obligation to a bank.




Yeah who gives a sh*t about contracts!


Are you saying that a mortgage is a contract???

[Grand Master Melon]

I understand that a lot of people are struggling with lost jobs and simply cannot afford to pay their mortgages, but it kind of annoys me when people think they should only be liable for the current value when their house has dropped. Those same people were not be clammering to give the money back to the bank when the price was rising. Aren't they somewhat like the banks themselves? Keep the profits, and hope to nationalise the losses?


There is no such thing as a moral obligation to a bank.




Yeah who gives a sh*t about contracts!

Are you saying that a mortgage is a contract???

Are you saying that a mortgage is not a contract?

[sirgonzo420]

Liberty, what I get for those $550.00 a year is a lot......we have a good fire department here and only five minutes from my home....I did monitor a few classes at the local school and it was fairly good..........I think that I am gettin a big bang for my buck.


Yeah, but if you decided you weren't getting the bang for your buck anymore, and stopped paying property tax, they would try to take your home from you.

[sirgonzo420]

I understand that a lot of people are struggling with lost jobs and simply cannot afford to pay their mortgages, but it kind of annoys me when people think they should only be liable for the current value when their house has dropped. Those same people were not be clammering to give the money back to the bank when the price was rising. Aren't they somewhat like the banks themselves? Keep the profits, and hope to nationalise the losses?


There is no such thing as a moral obligation to a bank.




Yeah who gives a sh*t about contracts!

Are you saying that a mortgage is a contract???

Are you saying that a mortgage is not a contract?


A real contract has more than one signature on it, with more than one fully willing, fully knowing flesh-and-blood man or woman of lawful age.

If people KNEW how the banking system worked, they might not enter into mortgages (from the french "death pledge") so readily...

That being said, yes, people can be "greedy"... but really it is just sad if you view it in the context of the situation. That is to say that the SYSTEM is inherently fraudulent. There is no MONEY. There are only debt-notes that carry obligation with them.

It's fuckin' toxic.

[I am me, I am free]

I understand that a lot of people are struggling with lost jobs and simply cannot afford to pay their mortgages, but it kind of annoys me when people think they should only be liable for the current value when their house has dropped. Those same people were not be clammering to give the money back to the bank when the price was rising. Aren't they somewhat like the banks themselves? Keep the profits, and hope to nationalise the losses?


There is no such thing as a moral obligation to a bank.




Yeah who gives a sh*t about contracts!

Are you saying that a mortgage is a contract???

Are you saying that a mortgage is not a contract?


A mortgage is no more a contract than a credit (card) application is a contract.

[Liquid]

Yeah, but if you decided you weren't getting the bang for your buck anymore, and stopped paying property tax, they would try to take your home from you.


It would appear, that true ownership of property/land, would be to squat on that land illegally.

If you hold it, you own it. If it's taken, such as gold and silver can be taken..

By squatting,

1) no property tax, because they don't know you are there.

2) No city codes, ordinances enforced. Since you are there 'illlegally', who cares about codes? Do what you want, when you want, with the land. Have 87,000 chickens if you want.

3) no bils, no electrical...takes you off the grid. No gas...fire up the coleman barbeque, cook meat over the open fire.

4) If anyone wants you off the land, they have to force you off. Much like gold, gold can be taken too. The ultimate, in if you don't hold it, you don't own it.

If TSHTF, squatting could be a good option. I'd pick a forclosed bank home to squat in. That way., screw the banks.

[StackerKen]

I built my own house in the hills....I shoulda saved up...but instead I got a loan from the bank to build it.

And I may be just a touch underwater now...Im not gonna stop paying....

I like it here. I build this place with my own hands.

Besides, I need a place to live and I probably couldn't rent for cheaper anyhow...

So...Yeah Im in bed with the evil bankers.......sad...but true....

I really don't know what to do about it...Just try to get it payed off ASAP. I guess

[Liquid]

I built my own house in the hills....I shoulda saved up...but instead I got a loan from the bank to build it.

And I may be just a touch underwater now...Im not gonna stop paying....

I like it here. I build this place with my own hands.

Besides, I need a place to live and I probably couldn't rent for cheaper anyhow...

So...Yeah Im in bed with the evil bankers.......sad...but true....

I really don't know what to do about it...Just try to get it payed off ASAP. I guess




Ken, no matter what you do, there's no escaping. I live on a sailboat. It's paid for, no mortgage on it.

Every year I have to pay property taxes. For what? Since the boat is tied to the dock, I have to pay taxes on the nasty ass mud 15 feet underneath my boat,underwater, that nobody sees.

I pay taxes on mud I never see. ;D

[Grand Master Melon]

I built my own house in the hills....I shoulda saved up...but instead I got a loan from the bank to build it.

And I may be just a touch underwater now...Im not gonna stop paying....

I like it here. I build this place with my own hands.

Besides, I need a place to live and I probably couldn't rent for cheaper anyhow...

So...Yeah Im in bed with the evil bankers.......sad...but true....

I really don't know what to do about it...Just try to get it payed off ASAP. I guess




Ken, no matter what you do, there's no escaping. I live on a sailboat. It's paid for, no mortgage on it.

Every year I have to pay property taxes. For what? Since the boat is tied to the dock, I have to pay taxes on the nasty ass mud 15 feet underneath my boat,underwater, that nobody sees.

I pay taxes on mud I never see. ;D


Don't you also have to pay taxes on the boat? Maybe a vehicle registration or something?

[StackerKen]

I built my own house in the hills....I shoulda saved up...but instead I got a loan from the bank to build it.

And I may be just a touch underwater now...Im not gonna stop paying....

I like it here. I build this place with my own hands.

Besides, I need a place to live and I probably couldn't rent for cheaper anyhow...

So...Yeah Im in bed with the evil bankers.......sad...but true....

I really don't know what to do about it...Just try to get it payed off ASAP. I guess




Ken, no matter what you do, there's no escaping. I live on a sailboat. It's paid for, no mortgage on it.

Every year I have to pay property taxes. For what? Since the boat is tied to the dock, I have to pay taxes on the nasty ass mud 15 feet underneath my boat,underwater, that nobody sees.

I pay taxes on mud I never see. ;D


Really?

I owned and lived on a sail boat 10 years ago before I bought my 1st home...I never paid property tax....vehicle registration..yes...No property tax....

[Liquid]

Really?

I owned and lived on a sail boat 10 years ago before I bought my 1st home...I never paid property tax....vehicle registration..yes...No property tax....


No kidding? How did you get out of the property tax? I've moved the boat twice, both times I had to register for the local county to tax me. They jumped on me like flies on a rib roast.

I don't have to pay registration though. That's a benefit. The ol' gal is coast guard documented, so I send in a renewal every year, but it's free of charge. I guess, the coasties are fed, so we all pay for that. :)

[StackerKen]

Really?

I owned and lived on a sail boat 10 years ago before I bought my 1st home...I never paid property tax....vehicle registration..yes...No property tax....


No kidding? How did you get out of the property tax? I've moved the boat twice, both times I had to register for the local county to tax me. They jumped on me like flies on a rib roast.

I don't have to pay registration though. That's a benefit. The ol' gal is coast guard documented, so I send in a renewal every year, but it's free of charge. I guess, the coasties are fed, so we all pay for that. :)


I dunno...I was in Long beach harbor for two years...

[Liquid]

I dunno...I was in Long beach harbor for two years...


Ken, what size boat did you live on? Just curious, am wondering if there's a loophole I should look into...

[StackerKen]

I dunno...I was in Long beach harbor for two years...


Ken, what size boat did you live on? Just curious, am wondering if there's a loophole I should look into...


Yeah that may be it...I had a 26 footer

[Liquid]

Don't you also have to pay taxes on the boat? Maybe a vehicle registration or something?


Nope, no taxes on the boat itself. She is registered through the coast guard, which is free. I guess I am fortunate there, it's paying taxes on mud that gets me though...

[Liquid]

Yeah that may be it...I had a 26 footer


My first boat was a 24 foot islander bahama, 1964.

[bonaparte]

I'm with the homeowners on this one. You have to remember, the bank will make its decisions based on what is best for their bottom line, regardless of morals and ethics. I don't see why a person dealing with a bank shouldn't do the same thing.

What I do wonder, though, is: Can't these people be held liable for the difference between what they owe and what the bank gets when they foreclose. I know there are about 7 states where the bank cannot come after personal assets, but what about the other 43 states?

[Twisted Titan]

the country is f*cked when people's morality hits zero on the "do what you said you were going to do" scale.


LOL...

The source of Western morality, the Bible, declared that all debts should be expunged every 7 years.

Morality to people, always - morality to banks, never. Just a "business decision."








BINGO

[messianicdruid]

the country is f*cked when people's morality hits zero on the "do what you said you were going to do" scale.


LOL...

The source of Western morality, the Bible, declared that all debts should be expunged every 7 years.

Morality to people, always - morality to banks, never. Just a "business decision."








BINGO
Payment on debts were suspended in the seventh year. They were not forgiven until the 49th year {Jubilee}. People's incomes {and therefor payment of debt} were suspended due to letting the land lie fallow, to break the insect/pest cycle. When crops were again planted the payment of debt resumed, but most would not extend credit beyond the sixth year anyway, since everyone was working on the same page. Why would you loan money past a year that you would not be allowed to collect? In the Jubilee all debt was cancelled and all land returned to it's inheriting tribe, clan and family. This prevented a man from going into debt beyond the point where he would bind his offspring to the usurers. It was recognized that all wealth came from the land, so this was the limit anyone could borrow against. The productivity of the land was all that could be borrowed, not some ridiculous "credit score'.

[Liquid]

What I find interesting, is that the media is broadcasting this and not hiding it. We all know the media is controlled.

I am seriously leaning towards thinking that the banks, want folks to foreclose and walk away.

Two reasons for this. First, is the media attention almost 'recommending' folks to walk, afterall why not get free rent for awhile?

Second, I have a close friend who gave the keys to the bank and foreclosed. It did not hit his credit rating at all. His credit rating is still extemely high, near perfect.

Why did foreclosing on a home not affect his credit rating? It's been 6 months since the bank took ownership of the home.

Could the banks, along with the government, just want to take ownership of the homes?

[Twisted Titan]

What I find interesting, is that the media is broadcasting this and not hiding it. We all know the media is controlled.

I am seriously leaning towards thinking that the banks, want folks to foreclose and walk away.

Two reasons for this. First, is the media attention almost 'recommending' folks to walk, afterall why not get free rent for awhile?

Second, I have a close friend who gave the keys to the bank and foreclosed. It did not hit his credit rating at all. His credit rating is still extemely high, near perfect.

Why did foreclosing on a home not affect his credit rating? It's been 6 months since the bank took ownership of the home.

Could the banks, along with the government, just want to take ownership of the homes?






Capital must protect itself in every way...Debts must be collected and loans and mortgages foreclosed as soon as possible. When through a process of law the common people have lost their homes, they will be more tractable and more easily governed by the strong arm of the law applied by the central power of leading financiers. People without homes will not quarrel with their leaders. This is well known among our principal men now engaged in forming an imperialism of capitalism to govern the world. By dividing the people we can get them to expend their energies in fighting over questions of no importance to us except as teachers of the common herd."

Taken from the Civil Servants' Year Book, "The Organizer" January 1934




T

[Liquid]

Thanks for the post TA. You are right, when people don't own homes anymore, there's no reason to fight if it gets taken.

Watch as more people jump on the bandwagon and forclose, live rent free for awhile.

As more people lose homes, it doesn't help the bank to kick them out. The banks, need maintenance people...gardeners, to upkeep the bank's new homes.

The former proud home owner? Now a maintenance guy, taking care of the banks property. And, he's happy about it because of free rent.

Man..

We are witnessing another massive transfer of wealth, but it's in the form of property.

This is all done by design.

[Quantum]

Payment on debts were suspended in the seventh year. They were not forgiven until the 49th year {Jubilee}.


"At the end of every seven years thou shalt make a release. And this is the manner of the release: every creditor shall release that which he hath lent unto his neighbor; he shall not exact it of his neighbor and his brother; because Jehovah's release hath been proclaimed."

Deuteronomy 15:1-2

[Twisted Titan]

Thanks for the post TA. You are right, when people don't own homes anymore, there's no reason to fight if it gets taken.

Watch as more people jump on the bandwagon and forclose, live rent free for awhile.

As more people lose homes, it doesn't help the bank to kick them out. The banks, need maintenance people...gardeners, to upkeep the bank's new homes.

The former proud home owner? Now a maintenance guy, taking care of the banks property. And, he's happy about it because of free rent.

Man..

We are witnessing another massive transfer of wealth, but it's in the form of property.

This is all done by design.





BINGO


The Biggest players in the Room knew what was going to happen because they designed it.

They bought default insurance on the bombs they were gonna set off.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZ6lPaiKmwg

[JohnQPublic]

...
BINGO


The Biggest players in the Room knew what going to happen because the designed it

The bought default insurance on the bomb they were gonna set off





And the Obama administration, CONgress, and other assets of the banks will work to keep the derivatives bubble alive and well (including the CDS), while sucking the lifeblood out of this country and its people.

[PatColo]

And somehow in the midst of this massacre if the "Homeowner" becomes lucid and attempts to protect their interests they are labled as "the bad guy"???


NY Times a few days ago, CBS 60 Minutes a couple weeks ago:

CBS 60 Minutes: Mortgages: Walking Away (http://gold-silver.us/forum/general-discussion/cbs-60-minutes-mortgages-walking-away/msg42838/#msg42838)



Tons of "walking away" stories on patrick.net (http://patrick.net) these days. But 60 Minutes reaches a vast audience of TEEE VEEE PEOPLE. :o

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6470184n&tag=related;photovideo

When an illuminati "news" mouthpiece like 60 Minutes does a piece basically "selling" viewers on the merits of walking away (and giving a free ad to youwalkaway.com (http://youwalkaway.com) while they're at it), it's fodder for the case I've made for some time that the end goal is to crash the property market so bad, with values "going to zero", that the "solution" of ending the institution of private property is agreeable to most all (remaining mortgage-free owners will be slammed by non-viable prop tax, insurance, and an economy so broken they can't get sustained income from the property- rendering it a pure liability they're eager to dump). The banksters created the mortgage fiat from nothing, loaned it out at interest, engineered a "catastrophic crash", and got all the property for free!

Everything you own are belong to us!


Imagine for a moment that the NWO's ultimate agenda is to abolish the institution of private property, as well as destroying the Middle Class, which acts as a safety buffer between a republic and feudal tyranny.

Their "resistance" would obviously be those with a vested interest, IE owners of property. That's much of the fast-shrinking Middle Class. So if TPTB can engineer a property/economy crash so bad that values go to "zero", that kind of eliminates the vested interests of those who would resist the "communist" notion of abolishing private property, right?

So PTB mouthpieces like NY Times & 60 Minutes running stories portraying strategic defaulters benevolently, educating & nudging (soon-to-be?) underwater readers/viewers towards that course of action which they may have formerly rejected... well, that's a tell, as to TPTB's agenda.

Everything you own are belong to us!

edit: the massive & mysterious "shadow inventory of foreclosures (http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&tab=vw#hl=en&source=hp&q=shadow+inventory+foreclosures)" is another tell, another dot, drawing a picture of TPTB's agenda.

[Liquid]

That's exactly what I was thinking too PatColo!

The plan is the media to encourage foreclosures, the banks own the land. Plus, with the losses looking bad on the books, they get bailout by the government...and us tax payers are footing the bill.

We're taking it on both sides...

Serfs on Lord government land..

With government healthcare being pushed, they'll soon be telling you what you can and can not do, due to health regulations.

Read my concerns in this thread..

http://gold-silver.us/forum/general-discussion/my-concerns-on-where-we-are-headed-in-our-country/

[I am me, I am free]

The situation is morphing into ryot tenure, last defined in Black's 4th ed, absent from subsequent editions - can't have the ryots figuring out the game.

[7th trump]

And somehow in the midst of this massacre if the "Homeowner" becomes lucid and attempts to protect their interests they are labled as "the bad guy"???


NY Times a few days ago, CBS 60 Minutes a couple weeks ago:

CBS 60 Minutes: Mortgages: Walking Away (http://gold-silver.us/forum/general-discussion/cbs-60-minutes-mortgages-walking-away/msg42838/#msg42838)



Tons of "walking away" stories on patrick.net (http://patrick.net) these days. But 60 Minutes reaches a vast audience of TEEE VEEE PEOPLE. :o

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6470184n&tag=related;photovideo

When an illuminati "news" mouthpiece like 60 Minutes does a piece basically "selling" viewers on the merits of walking away (and giving a free ad to youwalkaway.com (http://youwalkaway.com) while they're at it), it's fodder for the case I've made for some time that the end goal is to crash the property market so bad, with values "going to zero", that the "solution" of ending the institution of private property is agreeable to most all (remaining mortgage-free owners will be slammed by non-viable prop tax, insurance, and an economy so broken they can't get sustained income from the property- rendering it a pure liability they're eager to dump). The banksters created the mortgage fiat from nothing, loaned it out at interest, engineered a "catastrophic crash", and got all the property for free!

Everything you own are belong to us!


Imagine for a moment that the NWO's ultimate agenda is to abolish the institution of private property, as well as destroying the Middle Class, which acts as a safety buffer between a republic and feudal tyranny.

Their "resistance" would obviously be those with a vested interest, IE owners of property. That's much of the fast-shrinking Middle Class. So if TPTB can engineer a property/economy crash so bad that values go to "zero", that kind of eliminates the vested interests of those who would resist the "communist" notion of abolishing private property, right?

So PTB mouthpieces like NY Times & 60 Minutes running stories portraying strategic defaulters benevolently, educating & nudging (soon-to-be?) underwater readers/viewers towards that course of action which they may have formerly rejected... well, that's a tell, as to TPTB's agenda.

Everything you own are belong to us!

edit: the massive & mysterious "shadow inventory of foreclosures (http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&tab=vw#hl=en&source=hp&q=shadow+inventory+foreclosures)" is another tell, another dot, drawing a picture of TPTB's agenda.

You dont own the property even if you pay the mortgage off so why and what point are getting at?
I think the goal for a pure one world government was sovereign debt for all countries across the board. That is the only way for one worldism to be accomplished.
Trashing the US housing market is just trivial when you look at it in a NAFTA and CAFTA view.
Nafta sank the knife into the housing market with no real paying jobs who can you make a martgage payment?