What Happens if Turkey Attacks Israel?

[DMac]

Let's say a war breaks out between Turkey and Israel.

Turkey is a 1st tier member of NATO, with the second largest # of troops behind the US. Turkey joined NATO in 1951. When Afghanistan was blamed for the 911 attacks, NATO invoked Article 5 (http://www.nato.int/docu/update/2001/1001/e1002a.htm) - "collective self-defense," and Turkey donated about 1700 troops to the US led Afghan invasion.

If the US has a "special relationship" with Israel (ZOG!), but no signed treaties, and the US has officially signed treaties with Turkey, what happens if Turkey attacks Israel? Also, Turkey is close to full membership in the EU, though not quite there yet, how would the EU react to a Turkish - Israeli war?

I am very curious to see how this could play out. Thoughts?

[sirgonzo420]

I've been wondering the same exact thing...

It'll be interesting for sure.

[Ponce]

All Arabs countries would be with the Turks and also other nations that up till now have said nothing against the US or the state of Israel....... the world have taken all that the can of the imperialist Yankee warmongers (do I sound now like a commie Cuban hahahahahah) and all the cards will be on the table to be deal.

Turkey could just be what is needed to light the fuse.

[Ifyouseekay]

I don't think it's going to happen. Turkey will back down. Don't ask me why I think this way, I just do.

[philo beddoe]

Isreal would let go of some nukes if they started to lose. Then all jews everywhere would be exposed for what they are.

[cedarchopper]

It will be the breakup of NATO because the US will violate the Treaty. You don't go against your banker's pet state...especially when they own your government.

[Ponce]

Petro Dollar is what controls the worlds economy and as soon as that is gone the wold will be free once again......money cannot buy happiness but can buy control of others.

PS: Remember as to who is behind the Petro Dollar.

[steveoc]

The most likely scenario :

- Nothing will happen, people will soon forget about the whole sordid affair.

- Lady GaGa or someone like that will die in a car accident, and the whole world will go into mourning and forget about Gaza, the economy, and the BP oil spill for a few more years.

If something really did happen :

.. and that is highly unlikely. Things have to escalate a hell of a lot more than they currently are for this to turn to war ... but if it did go that way ...

Then nobody is going to side with Turkey.

However, Turkey wont care - they will just roll through the place and basically destroy the IDF in less than 6 days. There is nothing Israel could do on their own to stop them.

If Israel surrendered early enough, things would get sorted out pretty quickly, a few new boundries would be established, and a bit more justice might be seen in the region. Maybe. Turn it back into free cosmopolitan area - just like it used to be.

If Israel let loose a nuke, then they wont have the surrender option. The whole affair would escalate to total war and certain genocide if that happened. It would be over quickly, and Israel would not survive it.

The paranoid realist in me says :

Point 1 - Its not going to happen.

Point 2 - There would be "universal condemnation" against Turkey, leading them to be kicked out of any ties they may have with NATO and the EU. The might of NATO would be turned on Turkey and Israel would be saved.

Point 3 - When the dust settles, there would be negotiations for handing over Lebanon and most of Syria, parts of Turkey and half of whats left of Iraq to Israel as some sort of "compensation" for them being a "victim of aggression" yet again.

Point 4 - A new international organisation would be formed to supercede the UN, with the goal of "preventing any future genocide and wars of aggression". It's HQ will be based in the newly built Israeli Supreme Court building.

The idealist in me says :

Heaven forbid that there should ever be such a war - nothing good would come out of it ... but if it had to happen, I would like to imagine that a resurgent Central Europe and their kindred brothers in Russia would get their collective asses into gear and invade that god forsaken place that is the source of so much trouble.

Maybe even having regular units backed by an all-volunteer ideologically based "peoples army" with their own separate chain of command - to sweep through the whole system from the ground up and restore the true sovereignty and divine destiny of their own homelands and peoples.

Once the beast has been killed, we could then hand the ravaged lands back to the original owners, and let them run their own affairs without any further meddling on our part.

Peace and Prosperity for all after that.

Where do I sign up ?

[SHTF2010]

if a war does break out between Turkey and Israel
i see other countries jumping in against Israel
the only bad i news i can think of here, is the SAMSON OPTION

and if Israel threatens THE WORLD with nuclear destruction
jews, all over the world will be looking over the shoulders

Israel is just a sandlot bully with a big mouth and a rich uncle ( US ) who signs blank checks for anything Israel wants

Israel needs a " we're tired of your double standard bullshit " intervention


KICK ASS TURKEY

[NOOB]

The most likely scenario :

- Nothing will happen, people will soon forget about the whole sordid affair.

- Lady GaGa or someone like that will die in a car accident, and the whole world will go into mourning and forget about Gaza, the economy, and the BP oil spill for a few more years.

If something really did happen :

.. and that is highly unlikely. Things have to escalate a hell of a lot more than they currently are for this to turn to war ... but if it did go that way ...

Then nobody is going to side with Turkey.

However, Turkey wont care - they will just roll through the place and basically destroy the IDF in less than 6 days. There is nothing Israel could do on their own to stop them.

If Israel surrendered early enough, things would get sorted out pretty quickly, a few new boundries would be established, and a bit more justice might be seen in the region. Maybe. Turn it back into free cosmopolitan area - just like it used to be.

If Israel let loose a nuke, then they wont have the surrender option. The whole affair would escalate to total war and certain genocide if that happened. It would be over quickly, and Israel would not survive it.

The paranoid realist in me says :

Point 1 - Its not going to happen.

Point 2 - There would be "universal condemnation" against Turkey, leading them to be kicked out of any ties they may have with NATO and the EU. The might of NATO would be turned on Turkey and Israel would be saved.

Point 3 - When the dust settles, there would be negotiations for handing over Lebanon and most of Syria, parts of Turkey and half of whats left of Iraq to Israel as some sort of "compensation" for them being a "victim of aggression" yet again.

Point 4 - A new international organisation would be formed to supercede the UN, with the goal of "preventing any future genocide and wars of aggression". It's HQ will be based in the newly built Israeli Supreme Court building.

The idealist in me says :

Heaven forbid that there should ever be such a war - nothing good would come out of it ... but if it had to happen, I would like to imagine that a resurgent Central Europe and their kindred brothers in Russia would get their collective asses into gear and invade that god forsaken place that is the source of so much trouble.

Maybe even having regular units backed by an all-volunteer ideologically based "peoples army" with their own separate chain of command - to sweep through the whole system from the ground up and restore the true sovereignty and divine destiny of their own homelands and peoples.

Once the beast has been killed, we could then hand the ravaged lands back to the original owners, and let them run their own affairs without any further meddling on our part.

Peace and Prosperity for all after that.

Where do I sign up ?


Great post.. I feel about the same way on all points.

[Ponce]

If anything at all was going to happen it would be in the first 48 hours, after that? just talk.......as the US always does.

[hoarder]

Turkey = Zog.
All this is designed either to drum up support for military aggression by Israel or to drum up more support for USrael's role in the Middle East.

[Quantum]

Let's say a war breaks out between Turkey and Israel.

Turkey is a 1st tier member of NATO, with the second largest # of troops behind the US. Turkey joined NATO in 1951. When Afghanistan was blamed for the 911 attacks, NATO invoked Article 5 (http://www.nato.int/docu/update/2001/1001/e1002a.htm) - "collective self-defense," and Turkey donated about 1700 troops to the US led Afghan invasion.

If the US has a "special relationship" with Israel (ZOG!), but no signed treaties, and the US has officially signed treaties with Turkey, what happens if Turkey attacks Israel? Also, Turkey is close to full membership in the EU, though not quite there yet, how would the EU react to a Turkish - Israeli war?

I am very curious to see how this could play out. Thoughts?




An Article 5 act has already occurred, when the Israel Terror Forces (ITF) attacked Turkish vessels in international waters in an infamous act of piracy.

What has been the response of the Obama regime? Declaration of solidarity with fellow NATO member and victim Turkey? Deployment of the Sixth Fleet to protect against further aggression?

NOPE.

The Obamanation has said he wants Satanic "Israel" to "investigate the facts."

The executive capital of the United States is not Washington, DC...it is Tel Aviv.

[steveoc]

On the whole subject of war in Israel .. I think a lot of people have a subconscious notion in the back of their minds that "the jewish armies are invincible", because it says so in a old wise book that we have all been bought up on.

They might point to the "miraculous" military victories in recent memory to confirm this notion.

If you look at the 6-day war in detail, the sides were pretty evenly matched, and losses were high on either side. In the confusion of battle, the Israelis made some bold but correct decisions .. and got mauled badly. Luck was not on their side. At one point in the war, a Syrian armoured Brigade had actually broken through the Israeli lines, and had a clear run at advancing into undefended territory.

But the Syrian commander also made the correct decision (to halt), given the information that he had at hand.

It was a very close affair, and the gods of battle dished out bad luck indiscriminately to both Syrian and Israeli forces alike. Thats what the gods of war do - they always have, and thats not likely to ever change.

In every single war that has ever been fought - you will find this idea arising from time to time that one side or the other attains a reputation of being "invincible". The Japanese army in the early phases of the pacific campaign in WW2, likewise with the Wehrmacht and the German armies at the start of WW1, Napoleon's armies before Borodino ... likewise with the Roman legions in the forests of Germany, Alexander the Great .. etc, etc. Its a universal notion, and it is a temporary notion. In reality there is no such thing.

God does not favour anyone in war. If you believe in a God, then you must also believe that God hates war and those who choose to use it to satisfy their desires for more power. Any belief is God 'approves' of one side over another in a war is one of the most dangerously wrong ideas that anyone can hold.

The big secret about strategy, is that there are no real secrets to strategy. There are rules for warfare that have been refined by experience over many thousands of years, and they still hold true. For a given action with a given set of forces over a given area of ground - there is a correct optimal way to proceed. Everyone knows this. The "grace of God" bestowed upon one side of the other is a very small straw to clutch to in order to guarantee your security.

If one is looking at, say, a war between Turkey and Israel, then the whole affair is pretty straight forward to analyse for anyone that can read a map.

Its quite simple - for the Turks, form up in Rehanyi, enter Syria, take the Allepo - Hims - Duma - Damascus route to form up on the Golan Heights, and then enter Israel from there. That would be a about 1 week to mobilizse plus 1 day to march to the form up point on the Golan Heights.

The Israelis during this mobilisation week have a daunting decision to make - use the Air Force to hit the Turkish forces as they are mobilising, or hold them back in anticipation of the battle to come. Difficult choice - Lebanon is a pretty safe area to fly over, but Syria now has S-300 system in place so thats a no go zone, and Turkey would have an 80km safety zone of air defence around their mobilisation point. Would Israel risk throwing away half its airforce before the battle started ?

For the Israelis, the only choice is to take a defence position at the Golan Heights, and provide depth all the way back to Haifa. They would have 1 week's worth of warning to prepare the defence. The war is won or lost over a set of flat lands between 2 mountain ranges on either side, with a depth of only 70km till you hit the sea. That is nothing. Its tank country, and 70km is nowhere near enough depth to halt a determined tank drive.

A serious tank charge through the Golan Heights with modern MBT's - and its only 1 hour from the start whistle to the time that the line is penetrated, and Haifa is surrounded. Only 60 Minutes !!

Tell me - how many offensive ground attack sorties could the Israeli air force conduct in the space of 60 minutes ?

If the tanks break through in that first hour, its game over for Israel. It would take a while to besiege Haifa, but you dont need to. Just cut it off from the rest of Israel, and put pressure from the North on Jerusalem with the remaining tank forces. From there, its a 2 hour drive by tank along another narrow front to roll into Tel Aviv. Another 2 hours, and you are in Jerusalem proper.

Come to think of it - properly motivated, and dosed up on Adrenaline (and possibly amphetamines as well) you could drive a significantly strong armoured unit from the Turkish border to the Golan Heights, fight a battle, subdue Haifa, besiege both TelAviv and Jerusalem all the space of one rapid movement, without a break, and still have about 40 hours of wide-awake motivation left before your troops started to fall asleep.

There is also the option for the Turkish forces to split and send a force through Jordan via Amman, to come Sth of the Dead Sea and advance on Be'er Sheva - Ashdod - Tel Aviv to put pressure on the southern flank. But the decisive battle is the drive through the Golan Heights towards Haifa. This southern movement would only be an option for the Turks if the Israeli airforce was badly injured at this point, since the desert drive from the Jordanian border through to Dimona is slow going and would be a kill zone for the Israeli air force.

So there you go - if Israel commits its airforce too early, that gives the Turks free movement to open the war with a strike on Dimona itself. If Israel holds back the airforce, then they have only 1 hour to stop the turks in a single decisive battle on the Golan heights.

If the war all goes to shit - then Israel has only a 2-3 hour window to decide whether or not to use the "samson option", lose anyway - and then face certain extermination as the entire Arab world floods in on them.

Best option at this point is for Israel to formally apolgize to Turkey, and open up the Palestinian settlements for much needed aide. That just my 2c opinion for what its worth.



Whilst it is always impossible to calculate the results of a battle ahead of time ... If you do the sums, then you can see that the IDF at it's current strength, is no real match for the Turkish forces at their current strength. The Turkish army would have to roll some really really bad dice to make this event drag on for more than a few weeks.

[Neuro]

I think it is highly unlikely that it would happen. If it does happen I think it would be a staged event, to get Syria and Hezbollah to 'join' in the fight, and Israel would have the perfect excuse to strike back, including attacking Iran...

Things are not what they seem like, to me the public conflicts where officials from Turkey-US-Israel, the last few years have been involved in rows-arguments-humiliations-fights, feels like they may all be pre-planned staged events...

[Quantum]

On the whole subject of war in Israel .. I think a lot of people have a subconscious notion in the back of their minds that "the jewish armies are invincible", because it says so in a old wise book that we have all been bought up on.


1) "Israel" is not Biblical Jewish.
2) God is not on the side of "Israel," as He was of the Hebrew armies of the Bible.




They might point to the "miraculous" military victories in recent memory to confirm this notion.


"Israel" lost against out-gunned, poorly-trained, poorly-equipped Lebanese militia in its latest war.

It is reasonable to argue that "Israel" has lost the propaganda war a couple days ago by their act of piracy on the high seas.




God does not favour anyone in war. If you believe in a God, then you must also believe that God hates war and those who choose to use it to satisfy their desires for more power. Any belief is God 'approves' of one side over another in a war is one of the most dangerously wrong ideas that anyone can hold.


God does take sides in war. He sides with the righteous. "Israel" is not righteous. America is not righteous. Sometimes He has allowed evil to win, but does not bless the forces of evil. God blessed David in his fight against Goliath, and today, He blesses the Palestinian, Iraqi, and Afghani defenders against their own Goliaths. The arrogant Goliaths of "Israel" and America have been totally unable to destroy the peoples who are merely defending their homelands.




The big secret about strategy, is that there are no real secrets to strategy. There are rules for warfare that have been refined by experience over many thousands of years, and they still hold true. For a given action with a given set of forces over a given area of ground - there is a correct optimal way to proceed. Everyone knows this.


The prime rule of the Israel Terror Forces (ITF) is to "fight dirty." Win at any and all costs; mercy or honor are irrelevant.




If one is looking at, say, a war between Turkey and Israel, then the whole affair is pretty straight forward to analyse for anyone that can read a map.


Yes, it is. If Turkey defends its ships against "Israel," the ITF will bomb such ships with F-16s & F-15s. If Turkey attempts a land attack, the ITF will use tactical nuclear weapons on such forces.




Its quite simple - for the Turks, form up in Rehanyi, enter Syria, take the Allepo - Hims - Duma - Damascus route to form up on the Golan Heights, and then enter Israel from there. That would be a about 1 week to mobilizse plus 1 day to march to the form up point on the Golan Heights.


"Israel" will nuke any Turkish land force in Lebanon or Syria, before it got anywhere near the Golan Heights or other "Israeli" territory.



Syria now has S-300 system in place so thats a no go zone...Would Israel risk throwing away half its airforce before the battle started ?


"Israel" will use IRBMs (Jericho IIIs), not its aircraft, if strikes in Syria were needed....ballistic missiles cannot be shot down by the S-300 system.




If the war all goes to sh*t - then Israel has only a 2-3 hour window to decide whether or not to use the "samson option", lose anyway - and then face certain extermination as the entire Arab world floods in on them.


Satanic "Israel" - I do not use the term satanic in any light way at all - will use nuclear weapons if it feels "threatened" by something other than pickup-truck-based rockets. They were ready to do so in 1967, 1973, and 1991. They do not care if the Arabs swarm towards them...they believe that their "god" (the Devil) will empower them...the Talmud tells them it is so...and they will do anything, including murder 100,000,000 people (after all, they already did so with Jewish Communism), to try to survive, or, at the very least, drag as many people into the pit with them.

[sirgonzo420]

Isreal would let go of some nukes if they started to lose. Then all jews everywhere would be exposed for what they are.


Yeah, they always have the Samson Option http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option

[sirgonzo420]

The most likely scenario :

- Nothing will happen, people will soon forget about the whole sordid affair.

- Lady GaGa or someone like that will die in a car accident, and the whole world will go into mourning and forget about Gaza, the economy, and the BP oil spill for a few more years.

If something really did happen :

.. and that is highly unlikely. Things have to escalate a hell of a lot more than they currently are for this to turn to war ... but if it did go that way ...

Then nobody is going to side with Turkey.

However, Turkey wont care - they will just roll through the place and basically destroy the IDF in less than 6 days. There is nothing Israel could do on their own to stop them.

If Israel surrendered early enough, things would get sorted out pretty quickly, a few new boundries would be established, and a bit more justice might be seen in the region. Maybe. Turn it back into free cosmopolitan area - just like it used to be.

If Israel let loose a nuke, then they wont have the surrender option. The whole affair would escalate to total war and certain genocide if that happened. It would be over quickly, and Israel would not survive it.

The paranoid realist in me says :

Point 1 - Its not going to happen.

Point 2 - There would be "universal condemnation" against Turkey, leading them to be kicked out of any ties they may have with NATO and the EU. The might of NATO would be turned on Turkey and Israel would be saved.

Point 3 - When the dust settles, there would be negotiations for handing over Lebanon and most of Syria, parts of Turkey and half of whats left of Iraq to Israel as some sort of "compensation" for them being a "victim of aggression" yet again.

Point 4 - A new international organisation would be formed to supercede the UN, with the goal of "preventing any future genocide and wars of aggression". It's HQ will be based in the newly built Israeli Supreme Court building.

The idealist in me says :

Heaven forbid that there should ever be such a war - nothing good would come out of it ... but if it had to happen, I would like to imagine that a resurgent Central Europe and their kindred brothers in Russia would get their collective asses into gear and invade that god forsaken place that is the source of so much trouble.

Maybe even having regular units backed by an all-volunteer ideologically based "peoples army" with their own separate chain of command - to sweep through the whole system from the ground up and restore the true sovereignty and divine destiny of their own homelands and peoples.

Once the beast has been killed, we could then hand the ravaged lands back to the original owners, and let them run their own affairs without any further meddling on our part.

Peace and Prosperity for all after that.

Where do I sign up ?


Exactly.

[I am me, I am free]

QUIT PICKING ON POOR, MISTREATED, MALIGNED ISRAHELL, dammit!

http://blog.onlinecc.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/youtube__leave_britney_alone_200709.jpg

[steveoc]

I think it is highly unlikely that it would happen. If it does happen I think it would be a staged event, to get Syria and Hezbollah to 'join' in the fight, and Israel would have the perfect excuse to strike back, including attacking Iran...

Things are not what they seem like, to me the public conflicts where officials from Turkey-US-Israel, the last few years have been involved in rows-arguments-humiliations-fights, feels like they may all be pre-planned staged events...


That makes perfect sense really - its something to watch as things unfold.

Neither Syria or Hezbollah are really equipped to be fighting a modern war, so an increased conflict with them would be a sure fire money spinner for the big powers, who could drag it on for as long as they like.

Anyone recall the start of WW1 ? You have these large powers where they have significant advances in military technology, and yet their only living memory of warfare is small scale, almost 'romantic' engagements against natives with spears, or small bands of angry farmers. When the 'great powers' finally faced off against each other, all hell broke loose, and death welcomed many millions into the jaws of hell.

And then you get WW2, where the technological advance in armour, mobility and aviation took everyone by surprise, and whole years passed before they came to terms with the new threat, whilst countries fell in a matter of days.

I dont think many people truly appreciate what a devastating weapon a modern armoured unit really is. The speed, firepower, and sheer destructive potential of these things is almost beyond imagination. Faciing one would not be like fighting off "terrorists' with AK's, or kids throwing rocks.

There is hardly anyone left alive on this planet who actually remembers what total war looks like. So if something like Turkey vs Israel does happen any time soon .. it will be the first time in over half a century that 2 modern military forces have actually gone toe to toe, and I think most people .. most politicians ... most military analysts will be horrified at how fast and rapidly brutal the face of war has become.

[steveoc]

...


God does not favour anyone in war. If you believe in a God, then you must also believe that God hates war and those who choose to use it to satisfy their desires for more power. Any belief is God 'approves' of one side over another in a war is one of the most dangerously wrong ideas that anyone can hold.


God does take sides in war. He sides with the righteous. "Israel" is not righteous. America is not righteous. Sometimes He has allowed evil to win, but does not bless the forces of evil. God blessed David in his fight against Goliath, and today, He blesses the Palestinian, Iraqi, and Afghani defenders against their own Goliaths. The arrogant Goliaths of "Israel" and America have been totally unable to destroy the peoples who are merely defending their homelands.



Good analysis Quantum - thanks for that.

In my own experience, I have come to believe over the years that soldiers are soldiers, no matter what uniform they wear, what colour skin they have, or what God they believe in. Thats just my opinion, and its based on having worn the uniform myself, and been around the traps a few times.

Ive seen too many examples of the righteous being swallowed up by the laws of mathematics to believe that God has any opinion - one way or the other - on who ultimately triumphs in the petty squabbles between men.

He obviously has bigger issues on his plate sometimes :)

[Ponce]

Soldiers are soldiers but for those from the state of Israel they have been trained since kids to believe that the rest of the world are animal to be killed.

[Gypsybiker45]

The scenario I see is different, Yes the Turks are predominantly Islamic, But there is NO love lost between the Turks and Arabs. I dont see a solidarity of forces, I see Syria recognizing IT would be the battlefield and dragging ass on commitment. I also dont see a Wehrmacht like Blitz by Turkey if they did manage to engage Israel. Israel would also have support,albeit small of Lebanon's Non Muslim populace and the Druze, another Wildcard I see, Is the US controlled Iraqi Army who could ravage Syria or force Turkey into a two front war.Lastly, I do not see any direct Russian assistance to Turkey,as I dont believe the Russians feel that Gaza or its people are worth a direct US/Russian confrontation. JM2C

[old steel]

All i know for sure Turks are very tough.

I would not want to fight them.

[steveoc]

Its quite simple - for the Turks, form up in Rehanyi, enter Syria, take the Allepo - Hims - Duma - Damascus route to form up on the Golan Heights, and then enter Israel from there. That would be a about 1 week to mobilizse plus 1 day to march to the form up point on the Golan Heights.


"Israel" will nuke any Turkish land force in Lebanon or Syria, before it got anywhere near the Golan Heights or other "Israeli" territory.




Ah - interesting point there. Very interesting.

Question : When Israel detects this Turkish armoured force massing on the Turkish-Syrian border .. should they go straight for a pre-emptive nuclear strike ?

Very good question.

There are 2 options for the timing of such an alarming action.

1) Is to hit them inside Turkey before they even cross the line. Way before they even denote a possibly hostile intention.
2) Is to hit them as they are moving through the expanses of the Syrian desert, obviously heading for Israel !!

Either way, that is an unprovoked nuclear attack on a sovereign country that has not declared any hostile intention on Israel.

It would be a massive gamble - because you would be hoping that every single nuclear power in the world would turn a blind eye, and not be overly alarmed at such a thing.

So what if you could get the USA to blindly apologize for anything you did, including unprovoked attacks on US ships, or a nuclear attack on a populated area of another country ? Such assurances would mean nothing unless both the Russians and the Chinese (and the Nth Koreans, and the French, and the British, and the Indians, and the Pakistanis) all felt exactly the same way.

NO. The Russians for one would NEVER EVER consider a deliberate unprovoked nuclear strike on a country so close to their sphere of influence as Turkey to be something they were willing to tolerate. Not in a million years. Have you ever got into a discussion with a Russian who felt threatened ? It generally doesnt end well.

So nuking them in Turkey prior to any hint of hostility would not be an option.

Nuking them in Syria - still gives Israel slightly more credibility, since the movement of Turkish troops is obviously an aggressive move towards Israel. But again, it doesnt matter to the Israeli's what I think, or what the US thinks - they need to convince Russia and China and every last one of them that such an action is something to be tolerated. Good luck with that.

So anyway - drop a nuke on an armoured division heading for the Golan heights in the Syrian desert.

And after the mushroom cloud blocks out the satellite view of what is happening on the ground ..... guess what is happening under that massive dust cloud ? Yep, those modern MBTs really are tough bastards to deal with. The damn things - a significant portion of which would survive a nuclear blast ...... continue to roll inexorably forward towards the 'Holy Land', completely unscathed but for some fearsome new markings on their thick camo paint.

On board, each one of them holds more than enough fuel to sprint forward and smash into the wailing wall in the very center of Jerusalem, and enough ammo to completely destroy a small town and kill every man, woman, child, and pet dog in that town that comes within range.

Tactically, thanks to the massive dust cloud that a nuke above the desert would create, you have just lost visibility of the advancing forces, and given away any defensive advantage you had of knowing where the enemy is and what he is up to. Not to mention the havoc that the EMP wave would create with your own GPS systems and other electronics.

Now, any Turkish commander that is planning the drive would choose the timing so that he is advancing through the desert with the wind at his back. As the attacker, you get to choose these sorts of things.

So now, where is this large radioactive dust cloud going to blow ? Yep - straight back towards Tel Aviv. So now your highways are blocked with panicked civilians, your radios don't work anymore, your artillery cant use GPS registration for fire missions, your 3C computer systems start dropping off the net ... and any troops you have that are not permanently buttoned up in NBC proof armour are starting to queue up at the MO's office with strange symptoms.

War isnt about destroying the enemy - its about destroying their ability to fight. The first side to lose control of the situation is the one that forfeits the war. Its all about control, not casualties. So before one single Turkish tank crosses the Israeli border, you already have a state of near panic on your hands. Not a good move.

And yet the tanks keep rolling forward - at 70 km/h, under the cover of a radioactive dust cloud. Do you fire again and drop another nuke even closer to Israel .. not even knowing where the enemy is exactly ?

What a fucking mess !

I dont believe Israel has a viable Samson option against a direct armoured attack.

[SQUEXX]

Isn't it amazing what a huge pain in the ass this shitty little tribe is?!? I can see why so many people want to wipe the bastards out!

[FreeEnergy]

Here's an option in the game.

If ...and this is a big IF...Israel threatens, or uses a nuclear weapon, they will give a carte blanche to other nuclear nation to level them...if that nation got guts. The only nation that got any guts left to deal with zionists is, possibly, Russia. And I've seen an obscure russian report (a time back, and I can't find it - so no source) outlining a nuclear strike against Israel if they start a nuclear war against Iran - and that report said they can level Israel ...and I do literally mean here LEVEL with one shot (probably multiple warheads, not sure).

But knowing that Russian sells oil to Rothschilds...likeliness of that scenario is minimal.

Here's an interesting read:



Moreover, Russian President Medvedev made it clear that currently there is a silent agreement between the major powers, Russia, USA, France, Britain and Germany, and Israel, that in a Total war, Israel will get all the breathing space it will need to Overpower the Arab world. The message from Jerusalem to Damascus was in these words: "Israel has made it clear that in a total war it will strike Iran, Lebanon and Syria, without pause and without mercy until they beg a cease-fire."

Link to Article (http://mideast.beforeitsnews.com/news/43/241/Medvedev_to_Assad:_Israel_intends_to_use_nuclear_w eapons_on_Syrian_cities.html)



EDIT: Changed quoted long link to named link to prevent horizontal scrolling. -Gaillo

[gunDriller]

Thoughts?

about 6 billion people would be rooting for Turkey - and possibly offering military assistance.

maybe 150 million Americans and Jews and various other White Supremacists and Christian Zionists would be rooting for Israel.

If Israel persisted with attacking Turkey, Israel would be partially wiped off the map. unfortunately, it would be catastrophic for the Palestinians.

Israel would use it as a chance to engage in their favorite sport - ritual sacrifice of the Goyim, the same scam they've been doing for millenia that's got them kicked out of 12 to 15 countries (some historian put the number of countries that have evicted the Jews at 100+; i'm trying to be conservative 8) )

so if there was a war that killed 1 million Israeli's, they would make sure to try & kill 500 Million Muslims, and maybe succeed in killing 250 million.


just a week ago we were thinking about the oil well ... not war between Turkey and Israel. we wouldn't be talking about this if Israel hadn't decided to celebrate our Memorial Day in their own sick way, by attacking an aid convoy.

[osoab]

I think its a legal battle now. As soon as all the dust had settled, there was a bunch of bickering about whether they were in international waters, were the flotilla members armed (and what is concidered armament), who fired first and probably much more.

This is why I see this current foot dragging going on. Yeah, the Turk gov maybe controlled, but I think their military, might want to step up to the plate.

This is what I have been hearing about the legal ranglings.

If Israel is determinned to have attacked a Turkish ship, then war has been declared.
Since Turkey is a member of NATO, then all members of NATO have had war declared upon them by Israel. If Israel is a member of NATO, well, I don't know how they would declare war upon themselves. Some may rejoice in this action, though.

One thing that puzzles me is this


Greek police fired tear gas at demonstrators protesting outside the Israeli embassy in Athens after about 2,500 protesters rallied outside the building, chanting "Hands off Gaza


http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2010/05/201053116143622331.html

Greeks supporting the Turks? This just can't be good.

[FreeEnergy]

Here's the other reason why US is not stepping in. Israel, apparently, not only owns US government, but also controls US nuclear weapons:

US Nuclear Weapons are guarded by Israel (http://gold-silver.us/forum/general-discussion/us-nuclear-weapons-are-guarded-by-israel/)


Seriously, boys, I can't believe you all slept through all this sh*t (I mean the last 30 years).

[SHTF2010]

maybe Turkey needs something else to think about

a " 9/11 type terrorist attack " against Turkey, with blame pointing to the Greeks

i'm sure, somewhere is Israel, there's a bunch of " thinkers "
thinking up various false flag events to take heat off Israel/zionism

[General of Darkness]

It's not in Turkey's interest to start this fight, so they won't do anything. However, there WILL BE ANOTHER false flag. The f*cking children of satan are never satisfied unless they're f*cking with someone.

You people need to get this in your heads. The middle east is invading Europe without a shot being fired. Why would they stop that to mess with their enablers?

[hoarder]

Turkey = Zog.
All this is designed either to drum up support for military aggression by Israel or to drum up more support for USrael's role in the Middle East.


What a hell of a statement to make with absolutely nothing to back it up. I guess I will just have to believe it because you said so. ::)
The history of Turkey backs it up. Heck, even Attaturk was a Khazar.

[silversurfer]

If ...and this is a big IF...Israel threatens, or uses a nuclear weapon, they will give a carte blanche to other nuclear nation to level them...if that nation got guts. The only nation that got any guts left to deal with zionists is, possibly, Russia. And I've seen an obscure russian report (a time back, and I can't find it - so no source) outlining a nuclear strike against Israel if they start a nuclear war against Iran - and that report said they can level Israel ...and I do literally mean here LEVEL with one shot (probably multiple warheads, not sure).


is this it?

Russia Ready to Vaporize the Jewish State
And then kick America out of the Eastern Hemisphere’s oilfields

Copyright Joe Vialls, 28 October 2003

http://web.archive.org/web/20061207113238rn_1/www.vialls.com/myahudi/sunburn.html

[Brent]

maybe 150 million Americans and Jews and various other White Supremacists and Christian Zionists would be rooting for Israel.


Since when do White Supremacists support Israel? Did I miss a memo at some point?

[FreeEnergy]

silversurfer, I think that may be the article. Stuff like that needs to be archived, it's a shame to loose it.

[Shami-Amourae]

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/b/b1/Israel_v_Turkey.png

[Quantum]

In my own experience, I have come to believe over the years that soldiers are soldiers, no matter what uniform they wear, what colour skin they have, or what God they believe in. Thats just my opinion, and its based on having worn the uniform myself, and been around the traps a few times.


I wish I could agree. You are obviously a human being with a soul & conscience. Unfortunately, you are ascribing your own traits to your fellows in uniform, and your perception of "those in uniform" is colored by that.

Those who fight for their very lives or those of their family or their homeland are very, very different folk than those are nothing but mercenaries, which is what most US troops are. Soldiers have lots of different motivations: some want only to live; some seek revenge for the deaths or dishonor of their loved ones; some want to return to something of their previous lives in a native society; some fight for money; some fight for power, often a fulfillment of twisted psychosexual issues (really, this is a form of rape). A percentage are gullible and fall for shallow propaganda, like after 9/11, that "we have to fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here." Pat Tillman was one of them, until he realized he had been had (RIP).




Ive seen too many examples of the righteous being swallowed up by the laws of mathematics to believe that God has any opinion - one way or the other - on who ultimately triumphs in the petty squabbles between men.

He obviously has bigger issues on his plate sometimes :)


The lessons of Christ include that God is never "too busy" for each and every "little guy." God is beyond our imagination, and not subject to the pathetic limitations of our minds, and especially our "science" or mathematics. He really does have time, all day and all night if need be, for you, and me, and everyone on this forum, and on this planet...at the same time.

Sometimes human conflict is indeed petty, such as in Northern Ireland. Sometimes, as in Iraq or Afghanistan, it's not - it's an Empire trying to dominate ancient peoples for money and power, killing many, and grotesquely oppressing millions more.

[Quantum]

Question : When Israel detects this Turkish armoured force massing on the Turkish-Syrian border .. should they go straight for a pre-emptive nuclear strike ?


They might, if there is enough time to decide. With Nutandyahoo in charge, it would probably be a snap decision.




Either way, that is an unprovoked nuclear attack on a sovereign country that has not declared any hostile intention on Israel.


Like "Israel" cares.




It would be a massive gamble - because you would be hoping that every single nuclear power in the world would turn a blind eye, and not be overly alarmed at such a thing.


Who would do something about it? Russia? Nope. China? Nope. Russia still has too many Jews in Moscow, and China is planning to go the slow path of world domination. France? Jew in charge. Britain? Jew in charge (yes, Cameron is part Jew). India? Yeah, right...similar outlook as China. Pakistan? The US controls it and its arsenal.




So anyway - drop a nuke on an armoured division heading for the Golan heights in the Syrian desert.

And after the mushroom cloud blocks out the satellite view of what is happening on the ground ..... guess what is happening under that massive dust cloud ? Yep, those modern MBTs really are tough bastards to deal with. The damn things - a significant portion of which would survive a nuclear blast ...... continue to roll inexorably forward towards the 'Holy Land', completely unscathed but for some fearsome new markings on their thick camo paint.


Unless Sam Cohen's toys were used. Yes, "Israel" is currently the only power to field ER (neutron) weapons. Armor is useless as protection against Neutron bombs. Tanks still there, crew inside very dead.




Not to mention the havoc that the EMP wave would create with your own GPS systems and other electronics.


The ITF has the very latest in hard C3 equipment, free, courtesy of the Goyish US taxpayer.




So now, where is this large radioactive dust cloud going to blow ? Yep - straight back towards Tel Aviv.


Wrong direction. Prevailing winds are to the East. "Israel" is still North of the equator.




I dont believe Israel has a viable Samson option against a direct armoured attack.


A very dangerous assumption.

The only way to defeat the "Sampson Option" would be a surprise nuclear cruise missile attack on Dimona and all nuclear-capable ITF facilities.

[Herbicidal]

Most likely nothing will happen. They both have very large militaries. Looking at wikipedia and other size estimates I would say they are about equal. Israel probably has slightly better equipment produced, bought and paid for by you know who.

I've heard that Israel has some of the biggest tank batallions on the planet, and that they are able to muster as many tank divisions as the United States.

[DMac]

Great exposition of thoughts, thanks all for posting!

Large Sarge posted the latest DBS w/ Rafeeq (6/2/10) (http://gold-silver.us/forum/general-discussion/dbs-w-rafeeq-%2862%29/), which has some great coverage of the Turkish-Israeli spat.

Some important points regarding the flotilla engagement:

1. It was a strategic move by Israel, not tactical. Boarding in international waters was done on purpose.

2. The rise of the Christian Vs Islamic separation. Turkey is being removed either knowingly, or covertly from the western alliance in preparation of the next great war.

3. Turkey's importance to NATO: They were added to NATO so the US/UK could setup intelligence gathering technologies in both Turkey and Cyprus against the Russians in the post WW2 period.

4. DBS infers Turkey's controllers knew full well what was about to take place with regards to Israel. All the world's a stage.

___________________________





One thing that puzzles me is this


Greek police fired tear gas at demonstrators protesting outside the Israeli embassy in Athens after about 2,500 protesters rallied outside the building, chanting "Hands off Gaza


http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2010/05/201053116143622331.html

Greeks supporting the Turks? This just can't be good.


Seriously. When was the last time Greeks were supporting Turks?!?! ???

[DMac]

Turkey's Nuclear Weapons:


The status of U.S. nuclear weapons in Turkey (http://www.thebulletin.org/web-edition/features/the-status-of-us-nuclear-weapons-turkey)

By Alexandra Bell and Benjamin Loehrke | 23 November 2009
Article Highlights

* Turkey is one of five European nations that continue to house U.S. tactical nuclear weapons allocated for NATO.
* The weapons, however, are no longer integral to the NATO military mission. In fact, their readiness posture is such that it would take months to prepare them for battle.
* Nonetheless, it will be difficult to remove them from Turkey given Ankara's concerns about the Iranian nuclear program and its somewhat strained relationship with the United States.

For more than 40 years, Turkey has been a quiet custodian of U.S. tactical nuclear weapons. During the Cold War, Washington positioned intermediate-range nuclear missiles and bombers there to serve as a bulwark against the Soviet Union (i.e., to defend the region against Soviet attack and to influence Soviet strategic calculations). In the event of a Soviet assault on Europe, the weapons were to be fired as one of the first retaliatory shots. But as the Cold War waned, so, too, did the weapons' strategic value. Thus, over the last few decades, the United States has removed all of its intermediate-range missiles from Turkey and reduced its other nuclear weapons there through gradual redeployments and arms control agreements.

Today, Turkey hosts an estimated 90 B61 gravity bombs at Incirlik Air Base. Fifty of these bombs are reportedly (PDF) (http://nukestrat.com/pubs/EuroBombs.pdf)assigned for delivery by U.S. pilots, and forty are assigned for delivery by the Turkish Air Force. However, no permanent nuclear-capable U.S. fighter wing is based at Incirlik, and the Turkish Air Force is reportedly (PDF) (http://library.fes.de/pdf-files/bueros/stockholm/06123.pdf)not certified for NATO nuclear missions, meaning nuclear-capable F-16s from other U.S. bases would need to be brought in if Turkey's bombs were ever needed.

(article continues at link)

[FreeEnergy]

Dmac, so Turkey has nuclear capabilities, but no way to deliver it? If Turkey was "free" (as some assume, disregarding jew-communist flag ot the country), then any leader worth any salt (again, jewish term) would acquire several nuclear-capable planes. even if it had to go through black market. National security should've been #1 priority, considering your country is allegedly between communist USSR and terrorist Israel. But if they didn't, they are clearly a puppet, and their own security is clearly not #1 priority, or is in hands of a foreign power (which is common for zionist-controlled regimes).

[DMac]

Dmac, so Turkey has nuclear capabilities, but no way to deliver it? If Turkey was "free" (as some assume, disregarding jew-communist flag ot the country), then any leader worth any salt (again, jewish term) would acquire several nuclear-capable planes. even if it had to go through black market. National security should've been #1 priority, considering your country is allegedly between communist USSR and terrorist Israel. But if they didn't, they are clearly a puppet, and their own security is clearly not #1 priority, or is in hands of a foreign power (which is common for zionist-controlled regimes).


I have little doubt that Turkey is controlled behind the scenes by the US/UK. The vast majority of Turkey is under populace control (Islamic) while there is an element of banker-Zionist control that steers the ship, so to speak.

From the article I posted it seems Turkey has not produced their own nukes, but has been housing nearly 100 of the US's nukes on their soil. The article claims that the Turkish airforce is outfitted with ~40 of these weapons giving them a nuclear capability IMO. Perhaps they cannot detonate these weapons? I don't know, this is all speculation based on reports I've read online.

[gunDriller]

Since when do White Supremacists support Israel? Did I miss a memo at some point?


most Israeli Jews are Caucasian. and they definitely think they're Supreme.

when i use the term White Supremacist, I am referring to Israeli Jews and American Jews that support Israel.

the term "white supremacist" is sometimes used in the American media to refer to White Separatists who advocate racial separatism. however, they don't kill their neighbors with the regularity that Israel does.

Israel practices a form of racism unique to the Jewish culture.

[Brent]

Since when do White Supremacists support Israel? Did I miss a memo at some point?


most Israeli Jews are Caucasian. and they definitely think they're Supreme.

when i use the term White Supremacist, I am referring to Israeli Jews and American Jews that support Israel.

the term "white supremacist" is sometimes used in the American media to refer to White Separatists who advocate racial separatism. however, they don't kill their neighbors with the regularity that Israel does.

Israel practices a form of racism unique to the Jewish culture.


Sigh, a small amount of White blood does not make one White.

Jews are not White although this is a popular misconception that some Jews even encourage when it suites them.

Why don't you just call them Jewish Supremacists? That is what they are after all.

Khazars are not White despite their heavy interbreeding with Whites.

Edit: Just realized how totally off subject this is, I won't be continuing this discussion here, if you want to make a thread about it go for it, I won't derail the thread anymore.

[beeks]

Excuse me but I don't believe either Turkey nor Israel.

I am from the Balkans and am kind of biased against Turks.

[Ash_Williams]

No one's going to war. Ships got raided, a few people talked big, and no one actually cares. Trash talking is how things are done in the middle east - if a war broke out every time a politician in some country over there said they'd annihilate every human in another country overnight while barely lifting a finger then the whole middle east would have been leveled dozens of times by now.

[Quantum]

Today, Turkey hosts an estimated 90 B61 gravity bombs at Incirlik Air Base. Fifty of these bombs are reportedly (PDF) (http://nukestrat.com/pubs/EuroBombs.pdf)assigned for delivery by U.S. pilots, and forty are assigned for delivery by the Turkish Air Force. However, no permanent nuclear-capable U.S. fighter wing is based at Incirlik, and the Turkish Air Force is reportedly (PDF) (http://library.fes.de/pdf-files/bueros/stockholm/06123.pdf)not certified for NATO nuclear missions, meaning nuclear-capable F-16s from other U.S. bases would need to be brought in if Turkey's bombs were ever needed.


Good luck to Turkey ever trying to detonate them without explicit US permission. The warheads won't arm without US-controlled codes and detonators. These are "dial-a-yield" thermonuclear (fission-fusion) weapons, and are armed and fired by complex processes.

It would also not be surprising if these warheads were quietly moved to Britain during the Bush regime.

[MAGNES]

Saw lots of comments, been working, can't post.

About this thread and issue related to many others.

I don't think this is going to happen.

In general how much do people really know about Turkey ?

Does the media ever publicize their behavior ?

Expect to see Turkey being outed in the press.

Just saw David Frum highlighting how the Turks
are international criminals cause of Cyprus.

He is not wrong but what he does not tell you is
that they were partners in crime.

To understand Turkey this is key, you have the top,
the elite and military, they control the country and
they are ZOG. Now you have a populist Islamist in
charge, Turkey is very Islamic, not secular as people
are misled by MSM, the top is secular. They created
Turkey from the Ottoman Empire and tried to neuter
Islams influence.

Just recently there was a whole bunch of MSM stories.
There was apparently attempted assassination of Ergodan
and a coupe plot. Much of the military is in jail now.
This happened because Turkey/Ergodan was really
giving Israel a hard time over Gaza, remember him calling
them murderers with blood on their hands.

Turkey has committed many atrocities. Ottomans too.
ADL lobbies for the Turks on this, Why ? The Kurds
have had thousands murdered and some reports say
2,000 villages wiped out, they are their own nation,
Turkey committed the same types of atrocities as Israel
does. Watch and see if they cannot get Ergodan under
control you will start hearing about them.

Sibel Edmonds is key, top of Turkey is partnered with Israel and NeoCons/Oligarchs, they are involved in everything, drugs, weapons,
WMD's, 9/11, Afghan heroin goes through Turkey to their drug
barons in Europe the Albanians.

Feith, Perle, others, named by Sibel Edmonds, lobbied for the Turks too.
Same thing for the Chechens, Raimondo at antiwar.com has the goods
on them in all of this, they waged war on the Serbs too and even brought
weapons and Jihadists into Europe to kill Europeans, Feith and partners
did this, Turkey involved.

Did ZOG lose control of Turkey ? We will see.
I doubt it. Something may happen to Ergodan ?

I will come back and build some threads on Sibel Edmonds,
the connections I speak to, Feith being key, Feith's father
was secretary to Jabotinsky, key person to understand and
know. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ze'ev_Jabotinsky .

Also some threads on Turkish crimes and aggression.

The MSM propaganda against Turkey has already started,
CBS covered the Patriarch long ago as punishment and
a vote was put up on the Armenian Genocide as a warning
to the Turks just recently, non of this happened by accident,
now you got Frum talking about Cyprus, ZOG USA and The Tribe
are complicit in all these crimes and now they will pin it on Turks. ROFL !

This blowout is huge, someone is going to step in and stop this
escalation between the two countries cause they both have a lot
to lose, Turkey being partners in crimes knows where all the fresh
bodies are buried, crimes of today.

I did not even talk about what the Nato Turks do to the Greeks
on sovereignty issues.

Also did not even mention the pipeline wars, ZOG USA wants them
to go through Turkey and South cutting Russia out, what a crimp
in their plans, LOL ! We have some threads here on this too.
Much of what you see in news and here is very related.

It is a complicated spiders web.

[MAGNES]

Seriously. When was the last time Greeks were supporting Turks?!?! ???



We'll take it on an issue by issue basis, that is the way Greeks are.
Some may say they are stupid for that. Amazingly many Greeks in
Greece have a big problem with the USA always supporting the Turks,
people do not know this nor understand this, the MSM never covers
this, cause Jews lobby for the Turks, most Greeks don't even know
that.

Nice list you have there above.

Someone needs to put a lid on Israel cause they
really will do something stupid being mad dogs for
real. More power to the Turks. There are also many
other aspects that would work to everyone's favor.

Turkey will still get support for many reasons though, used.
They will still be supported for EU and for militancy, etc .

Almost everything I stated is easily found online.
The hardest parts to document being the masonic
zog creaton of Turkey, but even there you have good
hard facts and a lot more circumstantial, and it fits
what is in the news.

Don't be afraid to put me on the spot.
I am working though.

Search Raimondo Archives.
They really woke me up to NeoCons.
Same with Sibel Edmonds.
http://www.antiwar.com/
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7374

[Trinity]

Great info MAGNES.

[DMac]

bump