Hard questions.....

[iOWNme]

1. Is 'Jewish' a race or religion?

2. Was Jesus a 'Jew'?



Inquiring minds want to know....


(This post is meant to spark an intellectual debate. No malice or vexation meant)

[Saul Mine]

1. Human is a race. Jewish is a tribe. Some men make a religion of it. All religions are made up by men.
2. Yes.

[Book]

1. Is 'Jewish' a race or religion?



Law Of Return (http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/1950_1959/Law%20of%20Return%205710-1950)

Only if your momma is Jewish are you automatically a citizen of the Jews-Only State of Israel.

Isn't that racist? What do you think Sui Juris?

:)

[Trinity]

2. Was Jesus a 'Jew'?

According to the Bible Mary was impregnated by God. So the question becomes "Is God a Jew?"

[hoarder]

1) When it's convenient for Jews to be a race, they are a race, when it's convenient for Jews to be a religion, they're a religion.

2) Sorry to answer a question with a question, but.... Was Jesus a Khazar?

[k-os]

Interesting questions, Sui Juris.

1) As far as I know, Judaism is a religion, but many people misuse it interchangeably as a description of "race", which as Saul Mine pointed out is a misused term, for which they really mean "tribe". (I just learned the tribe part a few days ago when looking up mail-in DNA testing.)

2) I was taught in Baptist church that Jesus was a Jew. I don't know if he was, in fact, a Jew, but that's what my church taught.

Was Mary Jewish?

[LuckyStrike]

Jesus was a Judahite. In the NT the word jew is translated from the word judean which is a region not a specific people. Judaism today is not the law of Moses but rather the talmud. For example, Judah was a patriarchal society today "jews" are matriarchal (as were the pagan edomites of the time) meaning if your mother is a jew you can get citizenship, the kol nidre is clearly not in the Mosaic law.

Jesus was certainly not a jew by the modern definition of the word. Modern jews are not descendants of Jacob as evidenced by this http://www.truthinourtime.com/2010/02/50-reasons-why-jews-are-not-israel.html


To answer your question.

1. Judaism is a religion based on the talmud and the word jewish as it is used today does denote a race of people.

2. The word jew should never be in the Bible (as with Gentile) if it were clearly translated it would be a lot easier for people to understand the book.

[hoarder]

1. Human is a race. Jewish is a tribe. Irish Setters are dogs, Pit Bulls are dogs, Schnauzers are dogs.
So....are Labrador retrievers a tribe or a species of dog?

[Sparky]

A Jew refers to a descendant of the Biblical patriarchs Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Being "Jewish" can refer to either this ethnic/ancestral link, or adoption of the cultural/religious traditions and beliefs which this ethnic thread espoused.

Classification of all "races" is rather ill-defined, so reference to the Jews as a race becomes a matter of debate. One might refer to the Jewish ancestry as a race, but you can adopt Judaism as your religion but not be considered of that race.

The term "semite" evolved from Noah's son Shem.

Abram came 10 generations after Noah, and was renamed Abraham upon his covenant with God, in which he was promised to have numerous descendants, though he and his wife Sarah were old and childless at the time. His grandson Jacob was the son of Isaac.

Jacob was father of twelve sons, who in turn became the patriarchs of the the 12 tribes; (Jacob was renamed "Israel" at this point). Each of the 12 sons and their descendants adopted a different area in Palestine. The twelve sons were Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, Benjamin.

No appointment of land was given to Levi, but the House of Joseph was divided into two tribes: Manasseh and Ephraim.

Here's a map of the allocation of land for the twelve sons/tribes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:12_staemme_israels_cs.png

And yes, Mary was also of Jewish ancestry.

[Desolation LineTrimmer]

Was the atheist Karl Marx a Jew? Yes.

Jews are a race with 3 or so ethnic groups, called Ashkenazim, Sephardi, Oriental. Jews are a mixed-up hodge-podge of genetic material from their host societies as well. They certainly aren't a pure race. They are also a religion, as a person with zero Jewish ancestry can convert and claim to Jewish.

[hoarder]

Was the atheist Karl Marx a Jew? Yes.

Jews are a race with 3 or so ethnic groups, called Ashkenazim, Sephardi, Oriental. Jews are a mixed-up hodge-podge of genetic material from their host societies as well. They certainly aren't a pure race. They are also a religion, as a person with zero Jewish ancestry can convert and claim to Jewish.
The AshkeNAZI Jews are the majority. The Oriental Jews are Ashkenazis. The non-AshkeNAZI, IOW non_ Khazar jews are a weak minority with no real voice. The Khazars are proud of their ancestry. They have an average IQ 15 points higher than any other race.
http://www.blumenfeld.name/jewishmoms_yahoo

You don't think they would foul up their gene pool by mixing with stupid races do you?

[StackerKen]

had to log in to say...

Good answers Sparky and line trimer. Nordic too.

IMHO DNA (Race) Does not matter to God...Nor does it matter to me.

Its silly really.

God told Abram

"Look up at the heavens and count the stars—if indeed you can count them." Then he said to him, "So shall your offspring be."


I don't think he means Only DNA related offspring...

[illumin19]

Some good answers/comments in this thread.

Here's one take on it.


The word "Jew" (in Hebrew, "Yehudi") is derived from the name Judah, which was the name of one of Jacob's twelve sons. Judah was the ancestor of one of the tribes of Israel, which was named after him. Likewise, the word Judaism literally means "Judah-ism," that is, the religion of the Yehudim. Other sources, however, say that the word "Yehudim" means "People of G-d," because the first three letters of "Yehudah" are the same as the first three letters of G-d's four-letter name.


http://www.jewfaq.org/whoisjew.htm

If I may add.......... it seems to me that the original "Jew" was indeed of the tribe of Judah(Jew-duh).

Judah resided in what was named Judea(Jew-day-uh).

The religion of Judah and actually most of the Children of Israel/Jacob (God knows best) came to be known as "Judaism" (Jew-duh-ism) for the sake of the kingly line that the Messiah would come thru. It seems to all revolve around their bloodline of their awaited king/ruler.

On Jesus (Alayhis salam) being a "Jew", why I think it's common knowledge that he was in blood and in practice...............but with his mother Maryam ( the most blessed among women....God knows best) being "related" to a Levite.......






Now just how much blood of the family of Levi (Judah's brother) did she have????????

Now there's another question.... ;)

[Sparky]

"And God spoke to Israel in the visions of the night, and said, "Jacob, Jacob!" And Jacob answered, "Here I am." "

And now for the tear-jerking video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otaSC_NHlCw

[iOWNme]

Very interesting answers so far. These are questions that most dont like to ask/answer.

I have asked many different 'Jewish' people if it is a religion or a race. I have gotten about 50 different answers. Which tells me it is something that is passed along in Families, but never actually explained with any logic or common sense.

If the Bible is the Truth, then the question of "Is God a Jew" becomes very relevant. It also seems to point to the idea that God did choose certain 'people' for his Kingdom. This is something i cannot except. I believe the Creator made us all equal, and it was man who came up with things like Labels, status, language, boarders and religion.

Another point is that the Bible has been translated in so many languages, thousands of years ago, and by so many different religious 'leaders' that one must question the intent and the reason for these changes/translations.

@Book: That Law of Return you posted is very interesting. And yes, completely racist. Thanks for the info....

I am in the middle of searching for my own path. I have always been very turned off by religion. I have now come to the conclusion that the true origins of 'Christianity' have been infiltrated and perverted into the monstrosity it is today.

I am still on my search, and thanks to those who contribute here.....

PEACE

[StackerKen]

I am in the middle of searching for my own path. I have always been very turned off by religion. I have now come to the conclusion that the true origins of 'Christianity' have been infiltrated and perverted into the monstrosity it is today.

I am still on my search, and thanks to those who contribute here.....

PEACE




monstrosity?

Christianity to me, Is simple.

Love God....Love others...and Be humble

"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

That ^ is Christianity

What is Monstrous about that?

[Book]

@Book: That Law of Return you posted is very interesting. And yes, completely racist. Thanks for the info....



http://files.myopera.com/heartbreakkid1/blog/9331mahatma-gandhi-posters.jpg

I wish you well on your search for Truth my friend.

:)

[philo beddoe]

had to log in to say...

Good answers Sparky and line trimer. Nordic too.

IMHO DNA (Race) Does not matter to God...Nor does it matter to me.

Its silly really.

God told Abram

"Look up at the heavens and count the stars—if indeed you can count them." Then he said to him, "So shall your offspring be."


I don't think he means Only DNA related offspring...
If it doesn't matter to you, encourage your kids to mate with negroes..........

[StackerKen]

had to log in to say...

Good answers Sparky and line trimer. Nordic too.

IMHO DNA (Race) Does not matter to God...Nor does it matter to me.

Its silly really.

God told Abram

"Look up at the heavens and count the stars—if indeed you can count them." Then he said to him, "So shall your offspring be."


I don't think he means Only DNA related offspring...
If it doesn't matter to you, encourage your kids to mate with negroes..........


LOL...yur funny philo. :)

I have said it before here.
I don't think mixing race is really a good idea...

although, I would not condemn anyone for it...I also would not recommend it.

[Book]

That ^ is Christianity



http://dailyblabber.ivillage.com/entertainment/archives/E_DannyBonaduce1.jpg

Gotta love the total fanatical commitment of new Born Agains.

:D

[iOWNme]

I am in the middle of searching for my own path. I have always been very turned off by religion. I have now come to the conclusion that the true origins of 'Christianity' have been infiltrated and perverted into the monstrosity it is today.

I am still on my search, and thanks to those who contribute here.....

PEACE




monstrosity?

Christianity to me, Is simple.

Love God....Love others...and Be humble

"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

That ^ is Christianity

What is Monstrous about that?



I agree with you, but that isnt what it has become. It has become a money making, 501c3, Paganized, mass inculcating, lying deceptive monstrosity.

That is what i meant.

Of course the true values are what is important. But those values are not what is represented by modern day 'Christians'. And that is what i am finding out.

More and more i am becoming a follower of the word of Jesus Christ, not a 'Christian'. His words are what were profound, of which a VERY small portion of the Bible is made up of, his actual words. Not heresay, stories, mythical tales, etc. His actual word is what seems to be inspiring and great.


Let me ask you this: Did Jesus judge anyone? Did he condemn anyone?

PEACE

[StackerKen]

Book....lol

Danny Bonaduce may or may not be a Christian.
I have no way of knowing .
Just because he wears a cross does not make him a Christian.
And of course there are many imposter's in the world, Those imposter's give Christianity a bad name. Thats is the plan of the devil to throw folks off.

[Sparky]

...
If the Bible is the Truth, then the question of "Is God a Jew" becomes very relevant. It also seems to point to the idea that God did choose certain 'people' for his Kingdom. This is something i cannot except. I believe the Creator made us all equal, and it was man who came up with things like Labels, status, language, boarders and religion.
...

I think you mean "accept".

Jesus was a Jew, which means "God" was only a Jew in his human incarnation. I think as an omnipresent and omniscient Creator, you don't have any ethnicity or religion.

I don't fully understand when people choose to reject something as truth because they don't like it. I don't like that gravity makes me drop things, so I'm not going to accept it. Huh??

And God did not choose certain people for his Kingdom. He chose a certain people to perform a specific role. An important theme of Christianity was that the invitation to the kingdom was extended beyond the "chosen people".

And that's a biblical theme. If you focus on the themes and not the individual quotations, you don't get as hung up on translation, since the themes are pervasive enough so as to not be ambiguous.

[Sparky]

...
Let me ask you this: Did Jesus judge anyone? Did he condemn anyone?
...
PEACE

Yes, he most certainly did. "You generation of vipers!"

[Book]

Book....lol



You enjoy a healthy sense of humor Ken. Be sure to maintain it at all costs as we approach the End Times.

|--0--|

[StackerKen]

Let me ask you this: Did Jesus judge anyone? Did he condemn anyone?

PEACE


That Is a Really Good question.

and I am not a teacher or a theologian

I think the word Judge can mean different things in different contexts


I'm not sure if Jesus Judged anyone while he was here. He knew peoples hearts though...and could be discerning beyond what we are capable of.

But Im sure he taught us not to judge. yet to be discerning (there is a difference)
We are not like him.(yet)

Jesus was perfect....(sinless) I think he may have rights that we do not have (yet)

Then there is these passages


Jesus says plainly, “God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world” (Jn. 3:17). In other words, when Jesus came to earth 2000 years ago, the primary objectives of His mission did not include judgment. Jesus came to earth on a rescue mission—He came to save us from our sins.

And yet, it would be a mistake to imagine that judgment has been altogether discarded. Jesus introduces the judgment of God with a condition: “He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already” (Jn. 3:18). The New Testament is filled with references to the second coming of Jesus, and these references identify Jesus as coming in judgment (see 2Thess. 1).

I wish I could be of more help to you.

But I will post this verse for you

"Keep asking, and it will be given to you. Keep searching, and you will find. Keep knocking, and the door will be opened for you. Matthew 7:7

[StackerKen]

...
If the Bible is the Truth, then the question of "Is God a Jew" becomes very relevant. It also seems to point to the idea that God did choose certain 'people' for his Kingdom. This is something i cannot except. I believe the Creator made us all equal, and it was man who came up with things like Labels, status, language, boarders and religion.
...

I think you mean "accept".

Jesus was a Jew, which means "God" was only a Jew in his human incarnation. I think as an omnipresent and omniscient Creator, you don't have any ethnicity or religion.

I don't fully understand when people choose to reject something as truth because they don't like it. I don't like that gravity makes me drop things, so I'm not going to accept it. Huh??

And God did not choose certain people for his Kingdom. He chose a certain people to perform a specific role. An important theme of Christianity was that the invitation to the kingdom was extended beyond the "chosen people".

And that's a biblical theme. If you focus on the themes and not the individual quotations, you don't get as hung up on translation, since the themes are pervasive enough so as to not be ambiguous.



Great Post Sparky!

I think you may have the gift of teaching :)

[StackerKen]

...
Let me ask you this: Did Jesus judge anyone? Did he condemn anyone?
...
PEACE

Yes, he most certainly did. "You generation of vipers!"


Yeah, I thought about that.
But was he "Judging and condemning" there...or Discerning?

Jesus says plainly, “God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world” (Jn. 3:17)

So how do you interpret that?

[StackerKen]

Book....lol



You enjoy a healthy sense of humor Ken. Be sure to maintain it at all costs as we approach the End Times.

|--0--|




Thanks Book...I'll try :)

[BabushkaLady]

1. Is 'Jewish' a race or religion?

2. Was Jesus a 'Jew'?

Inquiring minds want to know....

(This post is meant to spark an intellectual debate. No malice or vexation meant)


I've always questioned this as well. Without ever doing any actual research, I came to the conclusion it is a religion for the most part. It really depends on what context someone is claiming to be Jewish. When I see people observe Sabbath and go to synagogue I believe they are faith driven. When it is used as a description of their person without other ancestral references I believe they mean "race".

I was just having a conversation yesterday about religion. As a young girl, I was allowed to attend different churches. By age 13, I pretty much picked up on the concept that each religion thought they were the "best" one. Who knows?

Is it not what's in your heart and how you live your life? I've never been one to remember many bible verses. I do remember the stories they told and the lessons they were teaching.

[iOWNme]

I have not stopped researching this yet, and came across this site:

http://www.jesuswasnotajew.com/page-1/


I am not supporting or denying yet, merely still searching....


Opinions?

[Sparky]

I have not stopped researching this yet, and came across this site:

http://www.jesuswasnotajew.com/page-1/


I am not supporting or denying yet, merely still searching....


Opinions?


Apparently, no one is a Jew.

Does he ever define what makes someone a Jew?

His logic is paper thin. It's like saying Jesus couldn't have been a Jew, since he was merely composed of water and protein, like the rest of us.

Getting caught up in semantics can sidetrack a search for truth.

[the riot act]

I have not stopped researching this yet, and came across this site:

http://www.jesuswasnotajew.com/page-1/

I am not supporting or denying yet, merely still searching....

Opinions?


Great link. There is a whole lot to digest there before I chime in and appear very stupid.

Thanks!

[the riot act]

Apparently, no one is a Jew.

Does he ever define what makes someone a Jew?

His logic is paper thin. It's like saying Jesus couldn't have been a Jew, since he was merely composed of water and protein, like the rest of us.

Getting caught up in semantics can sidetrack a search for truth.


Apparently you may be totally correct! I have never seen a real good definition of the term "Jew".

I like others I know, we believe that "The King of Salem", Melchizedek was The Christ. That said then The Christ was before Abraham, thus before Juda, therefore not a Jew.

Interesting to study this further. Personally my Faith revolves around Jesus, 'The Christ Redeemer', and not the history, and all the other interesting but superficial stuff.

Where he came from, and who he descended from, while interesting, has nothing to do with MY salvation.

[Horn]

The world was converted to Judaism shortly after the holocaust.

Currently it is being returned to Islam.

[iOWNme]

The world was converted to Judaism shortly after the holocaust.

Currently it is being returned to Islam.


Can you please elaborate for this goyim?

:)

[iOWNme]

And since both sides like to use the Bible, or i should say their interpretations of the Bible, what does one make of the Bible quotes that site refers to?



I tell you that I am not following the Jew: I am following the Incarnate Revelation of The Most High. Before you ask me, Is Jesus Christ a Jew? I ask you this question: Is Yahweh a Jew? We have Jesus’ own words in Matt. 23:33 in which He turned and told the Jews that they are serpents and a generation of vipers. He was not talking about the symbol of Lucifer’s kingdom. He said they are Lucifer’s descendants. I want to emphasize the fact that one of the first things that Jesus did in that conversation was to deny any family relationship. (This is also one of the important records of the book of John.) He denied any relationship with them, and in the instance when they were creating great pressures upon Him, Jesus made this statement: “I am of My Father, and you are of your father.” Therefore, I want to point out something that is most significant concerning Christ. First, let us go to Isaiah 7:14, and read what it says about His birth. “Therefore Yahweh Himself the Eternal One shall give you a sign: Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His Name Immanuel” (which is “Yahweh with us “).

I only have a copy of the New World Translation version. I only have what has been given to me from 'the travelers' that come a knockin'.....That includes the Jehovah Witness and Mormon versions as well. You could say i enjoy the conversation.....

[Horn]

The world was converted to Judaism shortly after the holocaust.

Currently it is being returned to Islam.


Can you please elaborate for this goyim?

:)


You will be given no Sun, or Holy Spirit by TpTb.

Your only salvation besides your fathers house will be a camel & a tent.

[iOWNme]

The world was converted to Judaism shortly after the holocaust.

Currently it is being returned to Islam.


Can you please elaborate for this goyim?

:)


You will be given no Sun, or Holy Spirit by TpTb.

Your only salvation besides your fathers house will be a camel & a tent.


I always sucked at riddles......Mecca is going to overthrow Satan?

[illumin19]

what does one make of the Bible quotes that site refers to?

I'll take a "stab" at it, God willing it'll be worth something.......
I tell you that I am not following the Jew: I am following the Incarnate Revelation of The Most High. I ask you this question: We have Jesus’ own words
I had to stop it there and comment first. Jesus (peace be unto him) didn't speak his own words, just like other prophets/messengers of God he spoke what was COMMANDED of him by God. You can find the proof in "his own words" in John 12:49.
I have not spoken on my own AUTHORITY;but the Father who sent me gave me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
in Matt. 23:33 in which He turned and told the Jews that they are serpents and a generation of vipers. He said they are Lucifer’s descendants. He denied any relationship with them, and in the instance when they were creating great pressures upon Him, Jesus made this statement: “I am of My Father, and you are of your father.”

The whole of "my father" isn't LITERAL......
Listen to the verses in John where Jesus (peace be unto him) himself smashes the whole literal interpretation of all the son/s of.....
John 8:37
I KNOW that you are Abraham's DESCENDANTS, BUT you seek to kill me, because my word has no place in you.
John 8:39
"If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham" (peace be unto him)
John 8:42
"IF God were your father, you would love me"......
John 8:44
"You are of your father the devil".....

Now you must ask yourself........if he meant literally being God's children then the ONLY way they could of loved him was to be LITERALLY God's children, and to some (because of the view of being literally God's son) that would put them equal to Jesus (peace be unto him), right?
Now, is Jesus (peace be unto him) contradicting himself after stating he knew they were sons of Abraham (peace be unto him) then shortly after questioning them on being his descendants and stating they were of their father the devil? No, it's not literal that's why.


Anyway, I don't mean for this to turn into a debate and sidetrack this thread. I'm just replying to the sites quotes and how they interpret them.
Peace

[illumin19]

The world was converted to Judaism shortly after the holocaust.

Currently it is being returned to Islam.


Can you please elaborate for this goyim?

:)


You will be given no Sun, or Holy Spirit by TpTb.

Your only salvation besides your fathers house will be a camel & a tent.


I always sucked at riddles......Mecca is going to overthrow Satan?


No it's a metaphor it seems.......taking a stab at all 3 "monotheistic" faiths.

[Horn]

I'll leave it open to re preachment.

As far as identifying members of the flock goes, let the persecution continue.

[StackerKen]

I have not stopped researching this yet, and came across this site:

http://www.jesuswasnotajew.com/page-1/


I am not supporting or denying yet, merely still searching....


Opinions?


Apparently, no one is a Jew.

Does he ever define what makes someone a Jew?

His logic is paper thin. It's like saying Jesus couldn't have been a Jew, since he was merely composed of water and protein, like the rest of us.

Getting caught up in semantics can sidetrack a search for truth.



Luke 23:3 (NIV)
So Pilate asked Jesus, "Are you the king of the Jews?" "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied.

King James Bible
And Pilate asked him, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answering said unto them, Thou sayest it.



Pilate was the Roman procurator of Judea during the years A.D. 26-36. According to Jewish law, the Sanhedrin has found Jesus worthy of death under the charge of blasphemy. But Jewish law does not prevail under Roman rule; therefore the charge is now amended. Jesus is accused of calling himself King - this would be a charge of treason against Caesar under Roman rule. The charge made now by the Jewish leaders before Pilate therefore is a political one, not religious. Pilate asks, "Are you the King of the Jews?" for this reason. Jesus' answer, to my modern American English-speaking ears, is a rather strange one: "You say so." But, my study bible notes, this answer is really an indirect affirmative answer. I read that this is tantamount, in the original understanding, to saying, "It is as you say." However, Jesus is accused of many other things (so we are told) to which he makes no answer whatsoever. The distinction, I read, is between false and true charges: Jesus admits to his identity both in the trial with the temple leadership and before Pilate. To false charges he remains silent.


I agree with you Sparky about "Getting caught up in semantics"

I don't think it is really that important

edit to add Jesus also said

Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."

[the riot act]

Luke 23:3 (NIV)
So Pilate asked Jesus, "Are you the king of the Jews?" "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied.

King James Bible
And Pilate asked him, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answering said unto them, Thou sayest it.

I agree with you Sparky about "Getting caught up in semantics"

I don't think it is really that important



Jews - Strongs #243 as used in that verse, refers to Judean, i.e. belonging to Jehudah.

I doubt that the term "Jew" was used in those days because they didn't speak English. I am very leary of any translation. I spent years looking up words in Strongs, and Vines and Wilsons.

Semantics are very important to fully understanding. Like the English dictionary lists "Faith" as a noun, when in the Greek as Paul used it it, is a verb. Huge difference.

Praying that The Holy Spirit will guide you when reading the bible is your best bet to understanding. Personally the NIV offended my understanding. It seemed that it was trying to please many different factions at the sacrifice of true clarity.. To PC for me.

I mean if the KJV was good enough for Paul, it has to be good enough for me! ;)

[StackerKen]

Luke 23:3 (NIV)
So Pilate asked Jesus, "Are you the king of the Jews?" "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied.

King James Bible
And Pilate asked him, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answering said unto them, Thou sayest it.

I agree with you Sparky about "Getting caught up in semantics"

I don't think it is really that important



Jews - Strongs #243 as used in that verse, refers to Judean, i.e. belonging to Jehudah.

I doubt that the term "Jew" was used in those days because they didn't speak English. I am very leary of any translation. I spent years looking up words in Strongs, and Vines and Wilsons.

Semantics are very important to fully understanding. Like the English dictionary lists "Faith" as a noun, when in the Greek as Paul used it it, is a verb. Huge difference.

Praying that The Holy Spirit will guide you when reading the bible is your best bet to understanding. Personally the NIV offended my understanding. It seemed that it was trying to please many different factions at the sacrifice of true clarity.. To PC for me.

I mean if the KJV was good enough for Paul, it has to be good enough for me! ;)




So you're saying acorrding to Strongs, the sign said "King of Jehudah"?
and that was also Pilate question to Jesus?

and what about Jesus's answer to Pilate?
Was he answering yes?

[StackerKen]

Praying that The Holy Spirit will guide you when reading the bible is your best bet to understanding. Personally the NIV offended my understanding. It seemed that it was trying to please many different factions at the sacrifice of true clarity.. To PC for me.



I agree :)

and yes it does seem to be PC :-\

one more thing,
what does Strongs say about the word "Jews" in John 18:36 ?

Thanks

[the riot act]

So you're saying acorrding to Strongs, the sign said "King of Jehudah"?
and that was also Pilate question to Jesus?

and what about Jesus's answer to Pilate?
Was he answering yes?


Quoting The Geneva Bible here (which I really love).

That he is Christ a King.

Luke.23.3 And Pilate asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Iewes? And hee answered him, and sayd, Thou sayest it.

Luke.23.4 Then sayd Pilate to the hie Priests, and to the people, I finde no fault in this man.

Luke.23.5 But they were the more fierce, saying, He moueth the people, teaching throughout all Iudea, beginning at Galile, euen to this place.

Luke.23.6 Nowe when Pilate heard of Galile, he asked whether the man were a Galilean.

Luke.23.7 And when he knewe that he was of Herods iurisdiction, he sent him to Herod, which was also at Hierusalem in those dayes.

Luke.23.8 And when Herod sawe Iesus, hee was exceedingly glad: for he was desirous to see him of a long season, because he had heard many things of him, and trusted to haue seene some signe done by him.




one more thing,
what does Strongs say about the word "Jews" in John 18:36 ?

Thanks


John 18:36 - Jews. Strongs #2453 - Ἰουδαῖος Ioudaios ee-oo-dah'-yos From G2448 (in the sense of G2455 as a country); udaean that is belonging to Jehudah: - Jew (-ess) of Juda.

Download yourself a copy of "Bible Desktop (http://www.crosswire.org/bibledesktop/)". You can add many different translations and Strong's, Websters 1806, and a wide flavor of Concordances.

[the riot act]

Ken, here is the list of translations that you can download for the software. ;D

http://www.crosswire.org/sword/modules/ModDisp.jsp?modType=Bibles

[StackerKen]

Thanks :)

[iOWNme]

what does one make of the Bible quotes that site refers to?

I'll take a "stab" at it, God willing it'll be worth something.......
I tell you that I am not following the Jew: I am following the Incarnate Revelation of The Most High. I ask you this question: We have Jesus’ own words
I had to stop it there and comment first. Jesus (peace be unto him) didn't speak his own words, just like other prophets/messengers of God he spoke what was COMMANDED of him by God. You can find the proof in "his own words" in John 12:49.
I have not spoken on my own AUTHORITY;but the Father who sent me gave me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
in Matt. 23:33 in which He turned and told the Jews that they are serpents and a generation of vipers. He said they are Lucifer’s descendants. He denied any relationship with them, and in the instance when they were creating great pressures upon Him, Jesus made this statement: “I am of My Father, and you are of your father.”

The whole of "my father" isn't LITERAL......
Listen to the verses in John where Jesus (peace be unto him) himself smashes the whole literal interpretation of all the son/s of.....
John 8:37
I KNOW that you are Abraham's DESCENDANTS, BUT you seek to kill me, because my word has no place in you.
John 8:39
"If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham" (peace be unto him)
John 8:42
"IF God were your father, you would love me"......
John 8:44
"You are of your father the devil".....

Now you must ask yourself........if he meant literally being God's children then the ONLY way they could of loved him was to be LITERALLY God's children, and to some (because of the view of being literally God's son) that would put them equal to Jesus (peace be unto him), right?
Now, is Jesus (peace be unto him) contradicting himself after stating he knew they were sons of Abraham (peace be unto him) then shortly after questioning them on being his descendants and stating they were of their father the devil? No, it's not literal that's why.


Anyway, I don't mean for this to turn into a debate and sidetrack this thread. I'm just replying to the sites quotes and how they interpret them.
Peace


This is where the problem lies....How do you decipher what in the Bible is 'Literal' and what is 'metaphorical'? It seems that 'interpreting' anything in the Bible fuses man's ideas, biased views and faith based 'truths' into whatever he tells himself it means. I can clearly see this exact same line of thinking coming from both sides of the 'J' coin.

My path continues....

[illumin19]

This is where the problem lies....How do you decipher what in the Bible is 'Literal' and what is 'metaphorical'? It seems that 'interpreting' anything in the Bible fuses man's ideas, biased views and faith based 'truths' into whatever he tells himself it means. I can clearly see this exact same line of thinking coming from both sides of the 'J' coin.

My path continues....

That Sui Juris, is really the only problem.

Once anyone can get over the programming (culture,childhood,traditions etc.) of their brain on HOW TO READ/UNDERSTAND anything, everything one objectively looks at, becomes apparent.

May God guide us both.
Peace

[StackerKen]

I think it all comes down to Humbling yourself and asking for God's Guidance

With out God leading us, we would never find "the Way"


Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

[messianicdruid]

"In Romans 2:28, 29 Paul tells us who IS a Jew and who is NOT a Jew. God's answer to this question cannot be obtained by looking at one's genetics, but by the lawful requirements of citizenship in a tribe of Israel. This shows how those Jews who accepted Christ and all others who accept Him as King-Messiah have legally joined the tribe of Judah and are thus "Jews". On the other hand, those who have rejected Him are NOT Jews at all, because they have revolted against the King of the Judah and have forfeited their citizenship in Judah."

http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/COLDFUSION/booklet.cfm?PID=96

[Sparky]

"In Romans 2:28, 29 Paul tells us who IS a Jew and who is NOT a Jew. God's answer to this question cannot be obtained by looking at one's genetics, but by the lawful requirements of citizenship in a tribe of Israel. This shows how those Jews who accepted Christ and all others who accept Him as King-Messiah have legally joined the tribe of Judah and are thus "Jews". On the other hand, those who have rejected Him are NOT Jews at all, because they have revolted against the King of the Judah and have forfeited their citizenship in Judah."

http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/COLDFUSION/booklet.cfm?PID=96

This does not make any sense and only confuses the issue. It implies that Judaism requires acceptance of Jesus as Saviour, which of course is nonsense in the context of this discussion.

When understanding Christianity and the bible, I'm a "theme" guy. The biblical theme here is that a certain segment of the population was "chosen" by God to take on a special role in salvation history. When the savior arrived in the flesh, the chosen group generally rejected him for who he claimed to be. As a result, the offer of salvation was extended to non-Jews. Later in the bible, it is explained that there will be an opportunity of redemption for some "remnant" or representative subset of the Jewish population.

You can argue all you want about who is specifically included in the original "chosen" group, buy it's probably not Sean O'Callahan or Guido Salvatini. It's probably some olive-skinned group whose origins emanated from the Greater Palestine area. That's good enough enough to get the idea. As for Jesus being a Jew, of course he was by biblical context. Otherwise his entire ministry, which employed the original teachings of the Jewish law as a focal point, wouldn't make sense. An important theme is that he was considered blasphemous to his heritage by the Jewish religious hierarchy. This important theme wouldn't make sense if he wasn't a Jew.

[StackerKen]

He came to his own, and his own received him not.

John 1:11

[messianicdruid]

[quote=messianicdruid ]
"In Romans 2:28, 29 Paul tells us who IS a Jew and who is NOT a Jew. God's answer to this question cannot be obtained by looking at one's genetics, but by the lawful requirements of citizenship in a tribe of Israel. This shows how those Jews who accepted Christ and all others who accept Him as King-Messiah have legally joined the tribe of Judah and are thus "Jews". On the other hand, those who have rejected Him are NOT Jews at all, because they have revolted against the King of the Judah and have forfeited their citizenship in Judah."

http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/COLDFUSION/booklet.cfm?PID=96

This does not make any sense and only confuses the issue. It implies that Judaism requires acceptance of Jesus as Saviour, which of course is nonsense in the context of this discussion.

This is your inference, not what I am implying. I am not addressing the requirements of “Judaism” at all. If we want the {hard} questions answered correctly, we should determine whom God considers “a jew”. When one rejects the anointed leader, he forfeits membership in the tribe, even when pretending that he hasn't.

Jeremiah’s prophecies tell us, there were “good figs” and “evil figs” in the nation. And so God made a distinction between them, because He never intended to allow the rebellious Judahites to inherit the dominion mandate given to Judah. God will not have unbelieving and rebellious people rule in His Kingdom. And this is the key to understanding who is a Jew—as God defines a Jew.

[messianicdruid]

[quote=messianicdruid ]
"In Romans 2:28, 29 Paul tells us who IS a Jew and who is NOT a Jew. God's answer to this question cannot be obtained by looking at one's genetics, but by the lawful requirements of citizenship in a tribe of Israel. This shows how those Jews who accepted Christ and all others who accept Him as King-Messiah have legally joined the tribe of Judah and are thus "Jews". On the other hand, those who have rejected Him are NOT Jews at all, because they have revolted against the King of the Judah and have forfeited their citizenship in Judah."

http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/COLDFUSION/booklet.cfm?PID=96

This does not make any sense and only confuses the issue. It implies that Judaism requires acceptance of Jesus as Saviour, which of course is nonsense in the context of this discussion.

This is your inference, not what I am implying. I am not addressing the requirements of “Judaism” at all. If we want the {hard} questions answered correctly, we should determine whom God considers “a jew”. When one rejects the anointed leader, he forfeits membership in the tribe, even when pretending that he hasn't.

Jeremiah’s prophecies tell us, there were “good figs” and “evil figs” in the nation. And so God made a distinction between them, because He never intended to allow the rebellious Judahites to inherit the dominion mandate given to Judah. God will not have unbelieving and rebellious people rule in His Kingdom. And this is the key to understanding who is a Jew—as God defines a Jew.

IOW, perhaps it is the "context of this discussion" that is the problem.

[Fortyone]

You would have to clearly define "Jews" to ask this question. Jews in antiquity were semitic . they were originally from the tribe of Judah,and formed a Kingdom known as Judea. So yes, Jews of antiquity could be considered a race or sub race of semitics.Today, these Jews are referred to as Mizrahi,as they have never left, to me they are authentic Jews and are actually prejudiced by the next group. These are the more familiar Khazars of today, they are of Turkic stock,not semitic. they are leftovers from a Empire that existed in the middle ages in the Caucasus. This Empire CONVERTED to Judaism by their king,so they could trade with both Muslim and Christian nations they bordered.They were destroyed by the Kievan Rus (Russians). their descendents scattered across Eastern Europe and finally everywhere else. They kept their culture of profit at any cost,and manipulation. So here we have two races that follow a version of Judaism.Then there are others, Ethiopian Jews, supposedly converted in the days of Solomon. So there you have it. Its both,There were and possibly still are Jews of the original stock in existence and usurpers from a much later period claiming to be the originals,and then we have Sammy Davis Jr.Fact is Israel was founded by Zionist Khazars,as the Ethiopians stayed at home, and The Mizrahi, had never left to begin with.

[MAGNES]

Apparently you may be totally correct! I have never seen a real good definition of the term "Jew".

I like others I know, we believe that "The King of Salem", Melchizedek was The Christ. That said then The Christ was before Abraham, thus before Juda, therefore not a Jew.

Interesting to study this further. Personally my Faith revolves around Jesus, 'The Christ Redeemer', and not the history, and all the other interesting but superficial stuff.

Where he came from, and who he descended from, while interesting, has nothing to do with MY salvation.



Okay ! Thanks mayhem/ulysses/immanti ! That means you ain't a Christian nor recognize history.