TPTB and The Law of Diminishing Returns

[dysgenic]

Most of the people of this forum are pretty educated when it comes to the nature of TPTB, aka 'the bad guys', aka 'the occulists', aka 'the bankers', etc. The labels are not important and just serve to cloud the pertinent issues of who, what, why, where, and how. To be clear I am referring to the rulers of this world, NOT the politicians that answer to them or the men that kill for them.. the pawnbrokers and not the pawns. I'd like to emphasize a few important characteristics of TPTB:
1. They are few in number compared to everyone else.
2. They are filthy rich beyond the wildest dreams of ordinary people.
3. Their goal is to totally control and/or exploit everyone not in their clan.

With the bolded print in mind, let's take the perspective of TPTB trying to achieve total control and exploitation of the human race. TPTB, hereafter 'the opponent'. Everyone else, hereafter 'the victims'.
There are only 3 ways to effectively control victims that I know of.
Manipulation is a strategy associated with deception. Various tactics of manipulation include advertising, obfuscation, secrecy, and propoganada. Real life examples- public school indoctrination, infiltration of media, fiat based monetary systems.
Intimidation is a strategy designed to subjugate victims with the weapon of credible threat. Strategies include postering, demonstrative showcasing of power, and authoritarianism. Real life examples- selective enforcement, courtrooms, intentionally leaked documents.
Brute force is the law of the jungle. Think resource grabs in 3rd world nations.

As a general rule, weaker opponents tend to choose manipulation as their method to control victims. Stronger opponents tend to choose intimidation. And opponents overwhelmingly stronger than victims tend to choose brute force.

The benefit of manipulation as a control strategy is that it requires the least amount of physical resources to implement, while using resources more efficiently than other strategies. It works like this- victims are deceived into becoming allies of opponents (helping opponents oppress and/or exploit victims), and 'converted' victims unknowingly assist opponents into deceiving more and more people. Thus the manipulation strategy tends to hide the innate weakness of opponents (lack of sufficient force/resources), while also exponientially multiplying the force of the opponent by proxy (the aforementioned 'converted' victims). Manipulation leverages emotion by capitalizing on the power associated with various traits of human nature like loyalty (think patriotism), outrage (think FF attacks), and fear (think abrogation of due process rights).
The problem with manipulation as a control strategy is there are limits to the degree of control that opponents can hope to gain from victims. The reason for this is that manipulation uses pretension to gain the sanction of victims. Thus in cases of obvious gross injustice, as long as the pretense can be maintained, the injustice can be explained away or intellectualized as an anomoly or necessary evil. The minute the majority no longer excepts that pretense as true, manipulation fails. Strange as it might sound, the existence of pretense is in itself limiting to the notion of total control, as the opponent must appear to respect/honor the pretense consistently enough that the people continue to accept it as being true. Pretense is an important protection against absolute tyranny.

Intimidation is seldom effectively used as a longterm control strategy due to its innate weaknesses:
1. In order for it to be successful in controlling victims, the threats have to be legitimately credible or the strategy eventually fails once word gets out that the opponent is running a bluff and doesn't have the cards to showdown if they get called.
2. The strategy may be effective in compelling victims to subjugate, but the subjugation occcurs against the will of the victims. Thus, the strategy is emotionally impotent.

The bolded print is the key to understanding why a control strategy based solely on intimidation can't work. Without the power of emotion and the power of exponiential growth, the opponent needs to expend more and more resources to get less and less control in return (see the title of this post). At some point, the opponent spreads themselves thin enough to become vulnerable , resulting in the victims digging in their heels... then the opponent needs to expend more energy and resources, and the process becomes self reinforcing.

Brute Force as a stand alone strategy is simply not scalable to the degree that TPTB need in order to achieve their goal. The reason for this is that there are not enough murderers, rapists, and criminals that understand and accept the true nature of their criminality. It is much easier to convince victims that criminal actions are heroic than to convince victims to knowingly and willfully commit criminal acts that they know are criminal acts.

As you can see from this discourse, TPTB cannot achieve total control if they lose the ability to manipulate as The Law of Diminishing Returns will get them. But they cannot achieve total control if they continue to use manipulation as their weapon of choice, because manipulation cannot get them the degree of control that they strive for. . And they also cannot achieve total control through sheer brute force UNLESS they can successfully entice a large percentage of people to willingly and knowingly commit murder. And that's not going to happen, either.

TPTB will never achiever their goal.

[Saul Mine]

Interesting. There is another factor: people always eventually demand a coercive central government to take over their responsibilities. The biblical period known as Judges, the barbarians, the American colonies, Holland for a while, and modern Somalia are all examples of societies (not exactly nations) with no central government. All were unconquerable. All were quite prosperous. All lasted a couple hundred years and then the people threw away their freedoms and demanded a central government. (Somalia not yet.) And after creating a central government, they all eventually collapsed. In every case the people are TPTB, their own worst enemy.

[dysgenic]

Interesting. There is another factor: people always eventually demand a coercive central government to take over their responsibilities. The biblical period known as Judges, the barbarians, the American colonies, Holland for a while, and modern Somalia are all examples of societies (not exactly nations) with no central government. All were unconquerable. All were quite prosperous. All lasted a couple hundred years and then the people threw away their freedoms and demanded a central government. (Somalia not yet.) And after creating a central government, they all eventually collapsed. In every case the people are TPTB, their own worst enemy.


Interesting as well. Can you suggest any links to pertaining to that info?
thanks,

dys

[Hatha Sunahara]

I don't think the people are ever TPTB themselves. They are usually recruited by TPTB as agents who will support decisions that are against their own interests in exchange for money, promotions, and promises of security. In other words they are manipulated into doing what TPTB want. In that sense, they are their own worst enemies because they betray themselves.

That discipline of manipulation can be called 'Social Engineering'. TPTB have spent a lot of their stolen money (usury) funding all sorts of social engineering projects that meet their agenda. They've created schools that prevent children from learning, but leaves them open to be 'trained' for specific tasks. They have persuaded women to leave their homes and families to pursue careers. They have made everyone believe that there is a pharmaceutical cure for anything that ails you. They encourage people to believe that their country and the government are the same thing. That if you want to be safe, you need to give up some of your freedom. Lots of other examples--just cogitate for a while on the maxims of 'popular mythology'.

Dysgenic, you are right on in your analysis of TPTB. The bottom line is that they do not want large numbers of people seeing them for what they are--Ogres. Greedy little megalomaniacs. All the manipulation is to prevent that from happening. They are ever vigilant of pustules of dissent. They have their 'agentur'--their paid informants--ringing alarm bells when they encounter these pustules of dissent. We are all familiar here with trolls in discussion forums. You will find such trolls in just about every meeting you attend that includes more than a handful who are strangers. This is how TPTB divide and conquer us.

I have to disagree with your conclusion, Dysgenic. TPTB can get the total control they strive for through manipulation. But they cannot prevent people from seeing them for what they are: Ogres. So they have to devote a very large amount of resources to 'perception management'. That is what PR and propaganda are. That's what the 'Mighty Wurlitzer' is for -- to get you to 'hum along' instead of seeing red. All the manipulation is to get you distracted from the fact that your leaders are nothing but Ogres. There's a real good article here that describes the mental imagery TBTB want to create:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19709

This is a great description of the battle for you mind. If the elite lose that, they are finished. We all need to reclaim our own minds from them. We need to choose our own leaders instead of ratifying the choices of TPTB.

Hatha

[FunnyMoney]

Well that's nice, history lessons welcomed, analysis taken, and not to say that I didn't enjoy the jolly mood and all, but I think you have jumped directly into the moat without actually counting the number of sharks.

Not sure if you expect to be climbing out of this latest train of thought before reality sets in, and as always, please forgive me kindly for raining on things before the parade really starts going - but I might be required to refer you to my "Ignorance is Bliss" thread if you don't come back to Earth soon.

And again, really sorry and all, and don't take it personally, but the logic behind your points 1, 2 , and especially 3 work completely against your conclusion, not in support of it. The "diminishing returns" are going to be everybody's standard of living. Even TPTB might take a 50% cut in income and accumulated asset values. Let's see now, half of 4 trillion in yearly theft income is how many trillions?

BTW, exactly who said that total control and exploitation is the goal? Did you ever think to realize that those things might just be another symptom of the system. And even if that is the goal, 1. there's certainly no hurry; and 2. bending over and taking it might just end up being better in the minds of their subjects than the perception of the presented alternatives.

You assume a whole lot in that post, and you neglect even more. The matrix throws a wide net, you will need to do much better than this if you plan to escape it.

You assume people are going to wake up and assume that TPTB will push them into doing so.
You assume TPTB will flaunt wealth "beyond the wildest dreams of ordinary people" yet hardly anyone knows how much that is or even who TPTB really are. You assume the numbers of worker bees somehow trumps numbers on little pieces of paper, numbers that can have zeros applied whenever needed. Payments in the dark taking care of the rest. If a person works all day to go buy a bag of apples at the market and TPTB sends some person to buy 3 bags of apples, one for TPTB and two for the delivery process - you assume the people are going to notice this. Then you further assume they're going to understand it.

What's worse you neglect the current reality on the ground and much of history. I don't think they're having much trouble with a total control and explotation society in north korea. Slave labor and concentration camps have usually run their course quite completely prior to their end days.

"The Law of Diminishing Returns" certainly isn't going to end up in any victory (again I'm sorry to have to break the news). ... But I guess once all the "ordinary people" are either totally destitute or dead the diminishing part will be over - if that's any consolation.

[dysgenic]

Of course I don't take offense, your opinions are always welcome to me. It's kind of weird, I have a lot of respect for your opinions, yet we are on opposite ends of the spectrum on this one. Weirder still is that we both seem so certain of our positions. I know one thing, we both can't be right.
Instead of responding point by point, I want to ask you a general question- do TPTB need to trick people into helping them in order to win, or not? I say yes, if you say no it makes your viewpoints much more logical from my perspective. Is it a yes or no question? I think that it mostly is.

Bottom line: tricking people into helping is more efficient and effective than bribery or brute force. Bribery and brute force breed resistance. Resistance leads to resource depletion leads to more resistance, etc.

dys




Well that's nice, history lessons welcomed, analysis taken, and not to say that I didn't enjoy the jolly mood and all, but I think you have jumped directly into the moat without actually counting the number of sharks.

Not sure if you expect to be climbing out of this latest train of thought before reality sets in, and as always, please forgive me kindly for raining on things before the parade really starts going - but I might be required to refer you to my "Ignorance is Bliss" thread if you don't come back to Earth soon.

And again, really sorry and all, and don't take it personally, but the logic behind your points 1, 2 , and especially 3 work completely against your conclusion, not in support of it. The "diminishing returns" are going to be everybody's standard of living. Even TPTB might take a 50% cut in income and accumulated asset values. Let's see now, half of 4 trillion in yearly theft income is how many trillions?

BTW, exactly who said that total control and exploitation is the goal? Did you ever think to realize that those things might just be another symptom of the system. And even if that is the goal, 1. there's certainly no hurry; and 2. bending over and taking it might just end up being better in the minds of their subjects than the perception of the presented alternatives.

You assume a whole lot in that post, and you neglect even more. The matrix throws a wide net, you will need to do much better than this if you plan to escape it.

You assume people are going to wake up and assume that TPTB will push them into doing so.
You assume TPTB will flaunt wealth "beyond the wildest dreams of ordinary people" yet hardly anyone knows how much that is or even who TPTB really are. You assume the numbers of worker bees somehow trumps numbers on little pieces of paper, numbers that can have zeros applied whenever needed. Payments in the dark taking care of the rest. If a person works all day to go buy a bag of apples at the market and TPTB sends some person to buy 3 bags of apples, one for TPTB and two for the delivery process - you assume the people are going to notice this. Then you further assume they're going to understand it.

What's worse you neglect the current reality on the ground and much of history. I don't think they're having much trouble with a total control and explotation society in north korea. Slave labor and concentration camps have usually run their course quite completely prior to their end days.

"The Law of Diminishing Returns" certainly isn't going to end up in any victory (again I'm sorry to have to break the news). ... But I guess once all the "ordinary people" are either totally destitute or dead the diminishing part will be over - if that's any consolation.

[Bigjon]

Apathy, wins the day for TPTB. Think flouride, ballgames, distractions.

The people are terminally stupid.

[Ponce]

The way that you guys are talking is to profound for me........all that I can say is the way that I feel and act, you are a victim only if you let yourselves be a victim.

[iOWNme]

Good post Dys...

How about this question:

What is the driving force behind it? It is either 1 of 2 things:

- Money
- Religion


I say money is a facade for the true core of the driving force: Religion. Look around you and study the world on a micro or macro level. The only conclusion you come to is one word: Evil. A system so sick and disturbing full of fraud, coersion, usury, force and death, could only come from one mind: the mind of Satan.

And i only a couple years ago realized that a Nation with faith is unbreakable. Think middle east....

But a nation full of atheists, might be a bit easier to manipulate?

[dysgenic]

The fiat money system is their tool, but their driving source is Satanic.
What is occultism? What is witchcraft? What is Satanism?

These things are all about control (among other things, but control is a one of the most important tenets). How do you control others? By deception, by force, or by a combination of the 2. And you nailed it, faith wins out everytime over these things (provided it's the right type of faith). Faith doesn't win most times, or even almost always. Faith ALWAYS wins.

dys



Good post Dys...

How about this question:

What is the driving force behind it? It is either 1 of 2 things:

- Money
- Religion


I say money is a facade for the true core of the driving force: Religion. Look around you and study the world on a micro or macro level. The only conclusion you come to is one word: Evil. A system so sick and disturbing full of fraud, coersion, usury, force and death, could only come from one mind: the mind of Satan.

And i only a couple years ago realized that a Nation with faith is unbreakable. Think middle east....

But a nation full of atheists, might be a bit easier to manipulate?

[FunnyMoney]

...do TPTB need to trick people into helping them in order to win, or not?


Win what?
Trick required or not, what trick?
If you are talking "fiat money" and the use of it at this particular moment in history, then yes. I would be inclined to say that absolute power and centralized money currently do require each other. But still, select various details are not always so certain and at times not as important as one might think. For example, the fiat money might collapse into nothing, if that happens many people looking to history for the answers believe that world wars will come to the rescue for TPTB.

These questions you ask are bound by the matrix. Step outside and you see how they fail to even always matter that much.
But still, for the sake of historical analysis let's dive into the details, and once again find what history tells us...

TPTB have already won, from their point of view and on the ground both. The half slavery system in the developed and the nearly full slavery one in the developing and under-developed world is enough for them already. The Kings of distant past were even mostly "winners" and this during times when culling the coin was noticed and equalized in regional competitions, in times when revolutions sometimes actually changed things and the worker bee pretty much knew who was to blame.

Today the stealth financial, global military war on tactics, hidden agendas, distractions and illusions are tricks which work much better. These same tricks and illusions have been around for thousands of years, they never left the scene - it's just they've been refined over the years. GO's book "1984" was not a book about the past, but still, it was a book all about evolution. The matrix evolves.

TPTB don't "need" any particular detail or particular method. The details fall into place just because when you are the house you don't really care which patron wins the jackpot as long as 9 out of 10 patrons leave poor (but more than happy to return for some more beatings later). Control over others is best accomplished as a defacto ramification of the way life is inside the matrix. TPTB have constructed the house. Most everyone has already long since selected to enter in. It's too late to ask about the price of admission. If you are nearing the middle of your life then you have already paid and getting a refund is a whole lot harder than you think.

Every base has been covered. The entire inside the matrix system is set up in such a way that escape or even clarity is now beyond the grasp of the ordinary. Worse than that, denial and ignorance feels a lot better for most. Declining standards of living and diminishing returns are relative. The numbers don't work the way you think they do, it's actually an infinite road to reach zero. Unfortunately, for the few who understand these things beyond the grip of the matrix, we're already too close for comfort.

[dysgenic]

I know that TPTB goal is total control because I know who they are and how they think. It's also important to note that they are not satisfied with the level of control that they presently have. If they were, they wouldn't be continually plotting and scheming for more control.
Of course TPTB 'need' certain elements in order to obtain their goal, or even to continue with the status quo. Examples-

They need good people to be deceived into criminal actions.
They need the goyim to remain distracted and ignorant of the truth.
They need to retain control of the MSM.

I believe that they need to hide the truth as well. That's why I believe that they will find a way to silence the alternative media, and soon.

dys










...do TPTB need to trick people into helping them in order to win, or not?


Win what?
Trick required or not, what trick?
If you are talking "fiat money" and the use of it at this particular moment in history, then yes. I would be inclined to say that absolute power and centralized money currently do require each other. But still, select various details are not always so certain and at times not as important as one might think. For example, the fiat money might collapse into nothing, if that happens many people looking to history for the answers believe that world wars will come to the rescue for TPTB.

These questions you ask are bound by the matrix. Step outside and you see how they fail to even always matter that much.
But still, for the sake of historical analysis let's dive into the details, and once again find what history tells us...

TPTB have already won, from their point of view and on the ground both. The half slavery system in the developed and the nearly full slavery one in the developing and under-developed world is enough for them already. The Kings of distant past were even mostly "winners" and this during times when culling the coin was noticed and equalized in regional competitions, in times when revolutions sometimes actually changed things and the worker bee pretty much knew who was to blame.

Today the stealth financial, global military war on tactics, hidden agendas, distractions and illusions are tricks which work much better. These same tricks and illusions have been around for thousands of years, they never left the scene - it's just they've been refined over the years. GO's book "1984" was not a book about the past, but still, it was a book all about evolution. The matrix evolves.

TPTB don't "need" any particular detail or particular method. The details fall into place just because when you are the house you don't really care which patron wins the jackpot as long as 9 out of 10 patrons leave poor (but more than happy to return for some more beatings later). Control over others is best accomplished as a defacto ramification of the way life is inside the matrix. TPTB have constructed the house. Most everyone has already long since selected to enter in. It's too late to ask about the price of admission. If you are nearing the middle of your life then you have already paid and getting a refund is a whole lot harder than you think.

Every base has been covered. The entire inside the matrix system is set up in such a way that escape or even clarity is now beyond the grasp of the ordinary. Worse than that, denial and ignorance feels a lot better for most. Declining standards of living and diminishing returns are relative. The numbers don't work the way you think they do, it's actually an infinite road to reach zero. Unfortunately, for the few who understand these things beyond the grip of the matrix, we're already too close for comfort.

[FunnyMoney]

I know that TPTB goal is total control because I know who they are and how they think. ...

They need good people to be deceived into criminal actions.
They need the goyim to remain distracted and ignorant of the truth.
They need to retain control of the MSM.

...they need to hide the truth as well. ...



All those things you say they need, they already have. In addition, TPTB are a collection of very disperate select families from all corners of the globe. There's no hard and fast goal, there's no singular focus. There's only the symptoms and the root causes. The root causes are their control over the financial systems and military, political, industrial artifacts and mechanisms.

They don't need anything else. They have enough control already and it's more than enough for the time being. If the sheep of the world decide to give them some more, sure, they'll take it, but all in due time. They don't need more of anything, they already have most of everything, including control.

Your thesis that they will destroy all they've attained in an attempt to get that last 2% both underestimates their abilities and assumes they have some collective steadfast goal. You couldn't be further from the truth, on both counts.

TPTB have not self-destructed ever, that is unless society completely collapses first and even then it's TPTB who usually emerge the winners coming into whatever cycle comes next. I think you need to return to the history lessons regarding TPTB. I would point you to several very long and varied videos. I had some linked in on my threads over at GIM1. But that's not going to happen now is it? But the knowledge is out there. You need to look at things from history. TPTB understand your words even better than you do. Do you think they would fall into such a simple mistake? History has proven, above anythng else (including the desire for power), they are all about winning. Something which they hold a near perfect record at. You completely underestimate the gravity of the situation, your posts are simply "grasping at straws". I wish it was that easy, but it is not.

[Awoke]

Good post Dys...

How about this question:

What is the driving force behind it? It is either 1 of 2 things:

- Money
- Religion


Neither.

What is the driving force behind it? Lucifer.

Money and Religions are used to aquire something else:
- Control

[dysgenic]

The first thing that I want to point out is that it's a logical fallacy to use what has or hasn't worked throughout history as an argument for what will presently work. The fallacy is called The Fallacy of Traditional Wisdfom. From one of my favorite books, Practical Logic by Douglas Soccio and Vincent Barry:

"The fallacy of traditional wisdom is the argument that uses the past to justify claims made in the present."

The second thing is that I believe that your viewpoint is based on an inaccurate perception of the bad guys. I don't believe that you understand the enemy, thus your conclusions are drawn from faulty premises.

Third, you described my thesis more or less accurately; they will destroy themselves trying in vain to conquer the last village, plunder the last resource, control the last mind... etc. Yes, they will. My thesis is predicated on who and what I know the bad guys are; in this case stunningly greedy to the point of their own peril and eventual destruction. It never enough for them. It will never be enough for them.

Last, and very important: I agree that they already have almost total control- 98% as you put it. But I vehemetly disagree that they are satisfied with what they already have. Again, if they were satisfied with the degree of control they presently have, why would they continually plot, scheme, and implement strategies to get more?

dys





I know that TPTB goal is total control because I know who they are and how they think. ...

They need good people to be deceived into criminal actions.
They need the goyim to remain distracted and ignorant of the truth.
They need to retain control of the MSM.

...they need to hide the truth as well. ...



All those things you say they need, they already have. In addition, TPTB are a collection of very disperate select families from all corners of the globe. There's no hard and fast goal, there's no singular focus. There's only the symptoms and the root causes. The root causes are their control over the financial systems and military, political, industrial artifacts and mechanisms.

They don't need anything else. They have enough control already and it's more than enough for the time being. If the sheep of the world decide to give them some more, sure, they'll take it, but all in due time. They don't need more of anything, they already have most of everything, including control.

Your thesis that they will destroy all they've attained in an attempt to get that last 2% both underestimates their abilities and assumes they have some collective steadfast goal. You couldn't be further from the truth, on both counts.

TPTB have not self-destructed ever, that is unless society completely collapses first and even then it's TPTB who usually emerge the winners coming into whatever cycle comes next. I think you need to return to the history lessons regarding TPTB. I would point you to several very long and varied videos. I had some linked in on my threads over at GIM1. But that's not going to happen now is it? But the knowledge is out there. You need to look at things from history. TPTB understand your words even better than you do. Do you think they would fall into such a simple mistake? History has proven, above anythng else (including the desire for power), they are all about winning. Something which they hold a near perfect record at. You completely underestimate the gravity of the situation, your posts are simply "grasping at straws". I wish it was that easy, but it is not.

[FunnyMoney]

Last, and very important: I agree that they already have almost total control- 98% as you put it. But I vehemetly disagree that they are satisfied with what they already have. Again, if they were satisfied ...why would they continually plot, scheme, and implement strategies to get more?


They are 98% satisfied. They would never do anything that would put at risk the 98% just to get at the last 2%. That would be stupid. Stupid they are not.

They have gotten to the 98% by way of incremental change throughout large blocks of history. The slow, methodical, historic, gradual, careful, and well thought out incremental changes will continue. Do not expect them to bet the farm on something risky, regardless of how tempting you think those last 2% are to them. You say you know them, but to place them with this characteristic which you argue is a major part of all of them, is to neglect all past and current behavior by them. Again, you are grasping at straws. You are seeing something which is not there. I call it the mirage effect, it often occurs within the matrix.

[Quantum]

TPTB will never achiever their goal.


"The Powers that Be" will achieve worldwide, total government, just as the Bible warns. A near Hell-on-Earth.

But just when "the Powers that Be" think they're on the verge of absolute victory, they get to take a nose dose into the Lake of Fire.

[Awoke]

You guys are arguing semantics. Incrementalism is the long term approach, and it will not stop.

We all know that they are not content without 110%.