All Sales of Coins over $600 Must Now be Reported to Federal Government

[SQUEXX]

06.27.2010
Rare Coin Reporting Legislation PASSES

http://www.americanfederal.com/2010/06/rare-coin-reporting-legislation-passes/

UNDER THIS LEGISLATION RARE COINS ARE NO LONGER EXEMPT FROM REPORTING

Little has been said about legislation that passed as part of the health care reform bill.
In an effort to close the loopholes the health care reform bill includes massive reporting requirements for rare coin dealers. Any transaction of coins,paper money bullion etc... over $600 is reportable under the new law. when it goes into effect all transactions will be required to be reported on IRS form 1099.

The new law is part of the health care bill and affects ALL sales of coins. The government is desperate to raise money to pay for the new health care reform. They see this as away to pay for it.
This is far worse than the current regulations which require a minimal amount of records on certian bullion items to be filed. Eagles and Buffaloes are currently exempt under the old rules.
Its all changed. This bill is ALREADY passed .It it is law.
Unless it’s repealed, its a done deal.

If you have coins or bullion you are holding for privacy -it will be gone.
If you have been thinking about selling you may want to do it now rather than later to avoid government intrusion.

* When this law goes into effect you can’t even sell 1/2 an ounce of gold or a single $20 St Gaudens without reporting it.

* Selling now can lick in today’s high prices without the red tape.

Worse yet is what happens to the coin market when this bill takes effect. If not repealed, I would expect a coin market collapse.

Can you imagine the labor alone of having to report every item?

Dealers will not be able to afford to comply and many will likely go out of business.

Buyers love physical gold and rare coins because of the relative privacy compared to other investments. They disappear with this legislation.

I don’t know if the appeal will be successful or not. I hope it is. But the federal government is desperate for money and this bill has already passed. I think it proves that you absolutely can’t count on past rules staying in place when buying coins. Why would you think the government can’t change the rules when it suits them? T think that your rare coins are safe from the government is not reasonable. The same thing that would make coins popular9rising prices) is what will get the governments attention.

If you’ve been on the fence to sell your coins don’t wait. Take advantage of today’s market. Get top price before all this goes into effect and the potential buyers are scared away .

In either case you can call your Congressman to urge support for HR 5141 to epeal the 1099 reporting requirement included in the health care bill.

[SLV^GLD]

And they laughed at me for buying bullion only.

[joe_momma]

And they laughed at me for buying bullion only.


I am not sure that bullion is excluded - my limited read on the interpretation of the law is that any transaction over $600 requires a 1099-K be submitted.

So that 1/2 krug is not safe either.

IMHO - (if true) - this is the first step for how Barry's going to "confiscate" your PMs - any sale now exposes you to the (soon to increase) capital gains tax - you can buy and sell all the PMs you want - just have to give a huge cut to the government.

[cedarchopper]

And they laughed at me for buying bullion only.


The article says "bullion" also. What they are saying is all financial transaction over $600 are reportable. I think they even created a new class of 1099's for it. Businesses will be spending all day trying to get confidential information from all vendors and customers and filing detailed reporting forms. They are trying to kill what is left of the economy.

[DMac]

Hello black market!

[Quixote2]

This does not go into effect until Jan 1, 2012. Today's gold to silver ratio is 67. You can change up to 8 ozt of gold into about 500 ozt of silver without drawing attention at the $10,000 level in effect today. Silver should be in more demand next year and the gold/silver ratio drop next year por two (silver price up more than gold prices) because you and others will want to buy and sell at under the $600 level per transaction.

It is possible that even the 0.25 ozt GAE might be over $600 in 2012. While the 1 ozt SAE will still be under $50. Even your local coin dealer will appreciate your under $600 transactions so he does not have to fill out the paper work.

(on edit - corrected to Jan 1, 2012)

[joe_momma]

This does not go into effect until Jan 1, 2011. Today's gold to silver ratio is 67. You can change up to 8 ozt of gold into about 500 ozt of silver without drawing attention at the $10,000 level in effect today. Silver should be in more demand next year and the gold/silver ratio drop next year (silver price up more than gold prices) because you and others will want to buy and sell at under the $600 level per transaction.

It is possible that even the 0.25 ozt GAE might be over $600 next year. While the 1 ozt SAE will still be under $50. Even your local coin dealer will appreciate your under $600 transactions so he does not have to fill out the paper work.


Won't do any good - by 2011 Au will be $3,000 an oz so your 1/4 oz'ers won't sneak under the radar. (Of course, if the dollar collapses and they start printing "Ameros" maybe you'll be safe!)

(Fortunately, all of PMs have been lost in tragic boating accidents - the most recent were the wrecks of the SS Black Market and SS Tijuana.)

:)

[DMac]

This does not go into effect until Jan 1, 2011. Today's gold to silver ratio is 67. You can change up to 8 ozt of gold into about 500 ozt of silver without drawing attention at the $10,000 level in effect today. Silver should be in more demand next year and the gold/silver ratio drop next year (silver price up more than gold prices) because you and others will want to buy and sell at under the $600 level per transaction.

It is possible that even the 0.25 ozt GAE might be over $600 next year. While the 1 ozt SAE will still be under $50. Even your local coin dealer will appreciate your under $600 transactions so he does not have to fill out the paper work.


It makes me laugh every time I buy a 1/10oz coin and a deal says to me "Why would you want those?? The premium is too high!"

[zap]

Like Dmac says , black market.... when you buy or sell don't leave a paper trail, pretty simple.

[joe_momma]

It will be a tragic day when I can buy pot in my California convenience store but have to drive to the seedy parts of town at night to buy/sell PMs!

[gunDriller]

It will be a tragic day when I can buy pot in my California convenience store but have to drive to the seedy parts of town at night to buy/sell PMs!

classic quote. we live in strange times.

who started this thread. SQUEXX.

please ... tell me you're kidding about the law starting in 2011. 8)

i have been watching this law and understood that it kicks in in 2012. i've double-checked and triple-checked.

i read the article, it doesn't say.

well, whether it's 2011 or 2012, it's a big deal.


as far as how to prepare for it, i think that by the time a 1/4 ounce of gold sells for $600 or more, well to some extent it will "take silver with it".

it will put the dealers in a tough position because they will lose sellers (people who are selling to them) if they foist a 1099 every time someone walks in the door with a wee bit o' gold.

speaking of 1/4 ounce - pretty huh

http://www.gainesvillecoins.com/Files/Images/Products/154905/154905_133831_L.png

[Quixote2]

gunDriller - good catch, checked on web and the date is Jan 1, 2012. Revised the entry above.

A better description of the law is :
http://tklimson.wordpress.com/2010/06/30/alert-a-blizzard-of-paperwork-could-be-about-to-hit-numismatics/

In the above link, it also states that "There’s a bill introduced by Rep. Dan Lungren (H.R. 5141), which has gathered over 80 members of Congress as co-sponsors to repeal this section."

[ximmy]

ahem... simply starve the beast...

[illumin19]

This is far worse than the current regulations which require a minimal amount of records on certian bullion items to be filed. Eagles and Buffaloes are currently exempt under the old rules.Its all changed. This bill is ALREADY passed .It it is law.
Unless it’s repealed, its a done deal.


The above bold is why I stuck with almost all EAGLES.

Now I'm going to have to look at this closely and see what moves I might make.

[big country]

luckily for all of us the world is going to end in Dec 2012 before the tax bills come due on all those reported transactions ;) ;) ;)

Silver is looking mighty fine for this guy, I doubt I'd buy any more gold after Jan. 1st 2012 under this new law. Stack the gold while you still can.

[tater]

If ya wanna get under the $600 limit maybe you could sell part of an oz of gold. The dealer could make change by using 1/2s, 1/4s, 1/10s and even SAEs or 90%. 8)

[Saul Mine]

It will be a tragic day when I can buy pot in my California convenience store but have to drive to the seedy parts of town at night to buy/sell PMs!

http://members.shaw.ca/the.toner/images/smilie/biglmao.gif
WOOT!

[Steal]

From the FAQ page of bullion direct on cash reporting of sales to I RS (last update was in 2008. Guess will have to keep an eye on these updates at these type sites over the course of near future. I figure, they know where the price of metal is heading, and figure is a large chuck of fiat that will slip out of their fingers in cap. gains if they do not get a jump start in it now. Or not.

As far as 1099 filings when you sell, we currently do not file since compliance is even more vague than the cash reporting. However, we strongly encourage full reporting by our clients since we fully cooperate with all properly authorized requests for records by the Authorities. Furthermore, we are considering a change in policy that would require us to report proceeds from all Sell transactions over a certain amount.

Last Update: May 13, 2008

[Skirnir]

From what I see in the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, such reporting was already required. Section 9006 of the bill amended Section 6041, which reads as follows:

http://www.taxalmanac.org/index.php/Internal_Revenue_Code:Sec._6041._Information_at_so urce

(a) Payments of $600 or more
All persons engaged in a trade or business and making payment in
the course of such trade or business to another person, of rent,
salaries, wages, premiums, annuities, compensations, remunerations,
emoluments, or other fixed or determinable gains, profits, and
income (other than payments to which section 6042(a)(1),
6044(a)(1), 6047(e), 6049(a), or 6050N(a) applies, and other than
payments with respect to which a statement is required under the
authority of section 6042(a)(2), 6044(a)(2), or 6045), or $600 or
more in any taxable year, or, in the case of such payments made by
the United States, the officers or employees of the United States
having information as to such payments and required to make returns
in regard thereto by the regulations hereinafter provided for,
shall render a true and accurate return to the Secretary, under
such regulations and in such form and manner and to such extent as
may be prescribed by the Secretary, setting forth the amount of
such gains, profits, and income, and the name and address of the
recipient of such payment.

[Quantum]

And they laughed at me for buying bullion only.


Many laughed at those who advocated fractionals, in particular, 1/10th ouncers.

[Quantum]

It makes me laugh every time I buy a 1/10oz coin and a deal says to me "Why would you want those?? The premium is too high!"


QFT

[Quantum]

This new "law" will be integrated with the eBay reporting one.

This form...

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-dft/f1099k--dft.pdf

...will be required for over 200 PayPal eBay sales transactions (i.e., almost all of them) starting January 1, 2011.

[SLV^GLD]

I was wondering why the stipulation is on the sale and not the purchase. Seems tracking the purchase is a more surefire way of sniffing out the sale that may have been under the table.

[Skirnir]

http://www.1099news.com/?p=298

The IRS has released their tax information reporting form changes for 2010. There are significant changes for some of the forms. Tax Year 2010 is also the year when the new forms 3921 and 3922 will be required to be reported by all applicable businesses (Note: the 1099-K is also new for Tax Year 2010, but only impacts firms that process credit card transactions on behalf of merchants)

[gunDriller]

ahem... simply starve the beast...


starve it and initiate psy-ops so The Beast gets Anorexia ... and starves itself.

Bibi Netanyahu could stand to lose 10 pounds.


I wonder if they're going to have $500,000 penalties like the Treasury has for not reporting foreign bank accounts. That's simply for not reporting the account, even if you pay the interest.

The US government is becoming a confiscatory monstrosity. The solution is obvious and it does not include paying for Nancy Pelosi's salary, retirement, or health care.

[Libertarian_Guard]

E_C

History does not necessarily repeat itself.

America will certainly NOT be the first country to confiscate or outlaw gold. Not this time. America may (and I use the term ‘may’ very lightly) jump on board, and follow the lead of other nations, but even that is doubtful. There is just too much backfire in this, as a black market would certainly ensue, and prices would skyrocket, thereby defeating all past measures of capping the POG.

The POG is still under the control of various paper markets. If you light a fire in the black market, all that could be lost!

Why fix something that’s not broke?

[Skirnir]

I see individual precious metal holdings as the high fruit in this case. The gold and silver markets are quite small compared to equities, bonds, and forex. Even if they were to confiscate such metals, the first place they would look would be the ETFs and bullion depositories...beyond that is likely too much trouble.

[gunDriller]

i think they may make the penalties for non-compliance absurdly steep, like the US Treasury does for foreign bank accounts.

they claim the right to fine you $500,000 if you have a savings account worth $11,000 in a foreign country - even if you declare the interest income, and pay taxes on the income - but don't file the Foreign Bank Account form.

i certainly do not recognize the US government these days.

[Skirnir]

They are an illegitimate mafia, right now I am in a position where I do not render unto Caesar, but I have to jump ship before I am.

[Book]

The solution is obvious and it does not include paying for Nancy Pelosi's salary, retirement, or health care.



http://lorla.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/bar-code-tattoo-2-49.jpg

But wait...there's more. Almost ready for their cashless society.

:o

[Ragnarok]

"Coming soon to a coin shop near you - divisible pieces of eight!" 8)

"They" don't have to "do" anything... eventually the price of gold, silver and anything else of value will rise to the point that any/all transactions will have to be reported. :( Welcome to the NWO. >:(

2c, R.

[Skirnir]

Do not worry:

0,1*POG = 600 | POG=6'000
1*POS = 600 | POS = 600

So long as it does not breach these levels, 1/10oz. gold and 1oz. silver rounds will fly under the radar.

That, or why not just get out of this horrid country? That is what I and most of my friends plan to do.

[gunDriller]

if the US had not bailed out the banksters that caused the credit crisis, i might feel differently about this.

but basically, since US taxpayers are bailing out the banksters - Reverse Robin Hood #1 - Rob from the poor, give to the Rich.

Reverse Robin Hood #2 - the Obama-care 1099 $600 tax law. maybe History Student is rich, but most of the people on this forum are not. the few who did not suffer terrible boating accidents have made the choice to forego "normal investments" like dividend paying stocks, and have saved for the future by putting their money into PM's. then, just when those PM's become valuable ... Uncle Sammy Shylock comes along and plays pickpocket with people's life savings.

while billionaire tax evaders like Marc Rich flee to Switzerland and get presidential pardons from Clinton ... etc.

between the Obama-care "Individual Mandate" and the 1099 $600 law that starts in 2012 - it's almost like the US gov. wants to start a civil war.

to top it off, Uncle Sammy Shylock is spending the $$ on causes nobody supports - $Trillion wars, etc.


as many GS-us'ers and former GIM'ers have already realized, the various tax agencies are devolving into a "guilty until proven innocent" approach where they seize assets first. that they are violating one of the original principles of the United States - that part about "no taxation without representation" - well, obviously, they don't care about our Legacy.

so the prudent thing to do is to park assets out of the reach of Uncle Sam, and to develop "patriot's markets" where the United States of Israel has no access.

Craigslist might be one example, although i'm sure the US gov. will find a way to f*ck that up.