osoab
30th June 2010, 03:58 PM
Caught this over @ Kitco.
http://www.americanfederal.com/2010/06/rare-coin-reporting-legislation-passes/
Rare Coin Reporting Legislation PASSES
UNDER THIS LEGISLATION RARE COINS ARE NO LONGER EXEMPT FROM REPORTING
Little has been said about legislation that passed as part of the health care reform bill.
In an effort to close the loopholes the health care reform bill includes massive reporting requirements for rare coin dealers. Any transaction of coins,paper money bullion ect over $600 is reportable under the new law. when it goes into effect all transactions will be required to be reported on IRS form 1099.
The new law is part of the health care bill and affects ALL sales of coins. The government is desperate to raise money to pay for the new health care reform. They see this as away to pay for it.
This is far worse than the current regulations which require a minimal amount of records on certian bullion items to be filed. Eagles and Buffaloes are currently exempt under the old rules.
Its all changed. This bill is ALREADY passed .It it is law.
Unless it’s repealed, its a done deal.
If you have coins or bullion you are holding for privacy -it will be gone.
If you have been thinking about selling you may want to do it now rather than later to avoid government intrusion.
◦When this law goes into effect you can’t even sell 1/2 an ounce of gold or a single $20 St Gaudens without reporting it.
◦Selling now can lick in today’s high prices without the red tape.
Worse yet is what happens to the coin market when this bill takes effect. If not repealed, I would expect a coin market collapse.
Can you imagine the labor alone of having to report every item?
Dealers will not be able to afford to comply and many will likely go out of business.
Buyers love physical gold and rare coins because of the relative privacy compared to other investments. They disappear with this legislation.
I don’t know if the appeal will be successful or not. I hope it is. But the federal government is desperate for money and this bill has already passed. I think it proves that you absolutely can’t count on past rules staying in place when buying coins. Why would you think the government can’t change the rules when it suits them? T think that your rare coins are safe from the government is not reasonable. The same thing that would make coins popular9rising prices) is what will get the governments attention.
If you’ve been on the fence to sell your coins don’t wait. Take advantage of today’s market. Get top price before all this goes into effect and the potential buyers are scared away .
In either case you can call your Congressman to urge support for HR 5141 to epeal the 1099 reporting requirement included in the health care bill.
This article seems to have a slant to to get people to sell. I think the black market for metals might see a nice kick start.
But I read this one also.
http://numismaticnews.net/article/600_sale_Tax_form/
$600 sale? Tax formJune 29, 2010
by David L. Ganz
Summary
A blizzard of paperwork could be about to hit numismatics.
Passage by Congress of the national health care legislation has had an unintended consequence to the nation’s coin collectors, vest-pocket dealers who buy and sell coins, and larger dealers who are frequent buyers of coins that collectors periodically liquidate as they trade up their collections for better coins, or simply sell to take a small profit or loss.
What has happened is that effective Jan. 1, 2012, the whole system of giving and receiving Internal Revenue Service 1099 forms will be turned on its head and all persons (including corporations) who are in business will now have to give 1099 tax reporting forms for coins and other goods that they sell as well as buy.
The responsibility for issuing forms kicks in at $600 for coins or bullion – not a very high level and one that has already started sounding alarm bells. It doesn’t matter in what form payment is made, whether cash, check, credit card, or Yap stone money, the $600 threshold applies.
There’s a bill introduced by Rep. Dan Lungren (H.R. 5141), which has gathered over 80 members of Congress as co-sponsors to repeal this section. Evidently, however, the drafters of the provision think there is a $17 billion loophole that this plugs.
The Industry Council for Tangible Assets is alerting member dealers and the public at large in the hope that some sense of outrage will lead to a ready modification before the law becomes operational in 2012.
Form 1099 is used to report independent contractor income, income from dividends, income from other things – and is one of the reasons why children receive tax bills for work or labor or services performed.
Section 9006 of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Public Law 111-148, signed into law by President Obama this spring) turns 1099 forms into reporting forms not only for independent contractor’s income – what they have long been used for – but also to show sales, gains and losses on purchases and sales of goods as part of a trade or business.
The section reads (in relevant part) “SEC. 9006. EXPANSION OF INFORMATION REPORTING REQUIREMENTS.
(a) IN GENERAL. – Section 6041 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by adding at the end the following new subsections:
‘‘(h) APPLICATION TO CORPORATIONS. – Notwithstanding any regulation prescribed by the secretary before the date of the enactment of this subsection, for purposes of this section the term ‘person’ includes any corporation that is not an organization exempt from tax under section 501(a).
‘‘(i) REGULATIONS. – The secretary may prescribe such regulations and other guidance as may be appropriate or necessary to carry out the purposes of this section, including rules to prevent duplicative reporting of transactions.’’
(b) PAYMENTS FOR PROPERTY AND OTHER GROSS PROCEEDS. –
Subsection (a) of section 6041 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended –
(1) by inserting ‘‘amounts in consideration for property,’’ after ‘‘wages,’’
(2) by inserting ‘‘gross proceeds,’’ after ‘‘emoluments, or other’’, and
(3) by inserting ‘‘gross proceeds,’’ after ‘‘setting forth the amount of such.’’
The property section means that if B. Max Mehl was selling coins to another major dealer of that era, a 1099 would have to be issued. When he bought from the public, the same thing is also required. The “report†does not necessarily measure profit or loss, but it does show activity.
The old exemption against corporations is also gone. If you buy or sell more than $600 of coins, or whatever, from, to or with a bullion dealer, for example, you have an obligation under the new law to issue 1099s.
Now both these articles, concentrate on the coin/bullion side of things.
I posted this in general because this rule can affect much more than gold and silver.
The way I take this is that any one that receives 600 frns for an asset sale will be required to get a 1099 for the amount. So does your buying/selling on ebay become a reported transaction? What about flea-markets and garage sales?
Looks like asset sales by corporations over 600 frns is added also.
Who here thinks the may be affected?
Damn healthcare bill.
http://www.americanfederal.com/2010/06/rare-coin-reporting-legislation-passes/
Rare Coin Reporting Legislation PASSES
UNDER THIS LEGISLATION RARE COINS ARE NO LONGER EXEMPT FROM REPORTING
Little has been said about legislation that passed as part of the health care reform bill.
In an effort to close the loopholes the health care reform bill includes massive reporting requirements for rare coin dealers. Any transaction of coins,paper money bullion ect over $600 is reportable under the new law. when it goes into effect all transactions will be required to be reported on IRS form 1099.
The new law is part of the health care bill and affects ALL sales of coins. The government is desperate to raise money to pay for the new health care reform. They see this as away to pay for it.
This is far worse than the current regulations which require a minimal amount of records on certian bullion items to be filed. Eagles and Buffaloes are currently exempt under the old rules.
Its all changed. This bill is ALREADY passed .It it is law.
Unless it’s repealed, its a done deal.
If you have coins or bullion you are holding for privacy -it will be gone.
If you have been thinking about selling you may want to do it now rather than later to avoid government intrusion.
◦When this law goes into effect you can’t even sell 1/2 an ounce of gold or a single $20 St Gaudens without reporting it.
◦Selling now can lick in today’s high prices without the red tape.
Worse yet is what happens to the coin market when this bill takes effect. If not repealed, I would expect a coin market collapse.
Can you imagine the labor alone of having to report every item?
Dealers will not be able to afford to comply and many will likely go out of business.
Buyers love physical gold and rare coins because of the relative privacy compared to other investments. They disappear with this legislation.
I don’t know if the appeal will be successful or not. I hope it is. But the federal government is desperate for money and this bill has already passed. I think it proves that you absolutely can’t count on past rules staying in place when buying coins. Why would you think the government can’t change the rules when it suits them? T think that your rare coins are safe from the government is not reasonable. The same thing that would make coins popular9rising prices) is what will get the governments attention.
If you’ve been on the fence to sell your coins don’t wait. Take advantage of today’s market. Get top price before all this goes into effect and the potential buyers are scared away .
In either case you can call your Congressman to urge support for HR 5141 to epeal the 1099 reporting requirement included in the health care bill.
This article seems to have a slant to to get people to sell. I think the black market for metals might see a nice kick start.
But I read this one also.
http://numismaticnews.net/article/600_sale_Tax_form/
$600 sale? Tax formJune 29, 2010
by David L. Ganz
Summary
A blizzard of paperwork could be about to hit numismatics.
Passage by Congress of the national health care legislation has had an unintended consequence to the nation’s coin collectors, vest-pocket dealers who buy and sell coins, and larger dealers who are frequent buyers of coins that collectors periodically liquidate as they trade up their collections for better coins, or simply sell to take a small profit or loss.
What has happened is that effective Jan. 1, 2012, the whole system of giving and receiving Internal Revenue Service 1099 forms will be turned on its head and all persons (including corporations) who are in business will now have to give 1099 tax reporting forms for coins and other goods that they sell as well as buy.
The responsibility for issuing forms kicks in at $600 for coins or bullion – not a very high level and one that has already started sounding alarm bells. It doesn’t matter in what form payment is made, whether cash, check, credit card, or Yap stone money, the $600 threshold applies.
There’s a bill introduced by Rep. Dan Lungren (H.R. 5141), which has gathered over 80 members of Congress as co-sponsors to repeal this section. Evidently, however, the drafters of the provision think there is a $17 billion loophole that this plugs.
The Industry Council for Tangible Assets is alerting member dealers and the public at large in the hope that some sense of outrage will lead to a ready modification before the law becomes operational in 2012.
Form 1099 is used to report independent contractor income, income from dividends, income from other things – and is one of the reasons why children receive tax bills for work or labor or services performed.
Section 9006 of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Public Law 111-148, signed into law by President Obama this spring) turns 1099 forms into reporting forms not only for independent contractor’s income – what they have long been used for – but also to show sales, gains and losses on purchases and sales of goods as part of a trade or business.
The section reads (in relevant part) “SEC. 9006. EXPANSION OF INFORMATION REPORTING REQUIREMENTS.
(a) IN GENERAL. – Section 6041 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by adding at the end the following new subsections:
‘‘(h) APPLICATION TO CORPORATIONS. – Notwithstanding any regulation prescribed by the secretary before the date of the enactment of this subsection, for purposes of this section the term ‘person’ includes any corporation that is not an organization exempt from tax under section 501(a).
‘‘(i) REGULATIONS. – The secretary may prescribe such regulations and other guidance as may be appropriate or necessary to carry out the purposes of this section, including rules to prevent duplicative reporting of transactions.’’
(b) PAYMENTS FOR PROPERTY AND OTHER GROSS PROCEEDS. –
Subsection (a) of section 6041 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended –
(1) by inserting ‘‘amounts in consideration for property,’’ after ‘‘wages,’’
(2) by inserting ‘‘gross proceeds,’’ after ‘‘emoluments, or other’’, and
(3) by inserting ‘‘gross proceeds,’’ after ‘‘setting forth the amount of such.’’
The property section means that if B. Max Mehl was selling coins to another major dealer of that era, a 1099 would have to be issued. When he bought from the public, the same thing is also required. The “report†does not necessarily measure profit or loss, but it does show activity.
The old exemption against corporations is also gone. If you buy or sell more than $600 of coins, or whatever, from, to or with a bullion dealer, for example, you have an obligation under the new law to issue 1099s.
Now both these articles, concentrate on the coin/bullion side of things.
I posted this in general because this rule can affect much more than gold and silver.
The way I take this is that any one that receives 600 frns for an asset sale will be required to get a 1099 for the amount. So does your buying/selling on ebay become a reported transaction? What about flea-markets and garage sales?
Looks like asset sales by corporations over 600 frns is added also.
Who here thinks the may be affected?
Damn healthcare bill.