If this happened to you...

[EE_]

what would you do? It sounds absurd?

June 29, 2010

Capt. Mike Clauer was serving in Iraq last year as company commander of an Army National Guard unit assigned to escort convoys. It was exceedingly dangerous work — explosive devices buried in the road were a constant threat to the lives of Clauer and his men.

He was halfway through his deployment when he got a bolt from the blue — a frantic phone call from his wife, May, back in Texas.

"She was bawling on the phone and was telling me that the HOA [homeowners association] had foreclosed on our house, and it was sold," he says. "And I couldn't believe that could even happen."

Clauer had a hard time understanding what his wife was saying. His $300,000 house was already completely paid for. Could it be possible that their home was foreclosed on and sold because his wife had missed two payments of their HOA dues?

In many states it is not difficult for an HOA to foreclose on a member's home for past dues even if the amount owed is just a few hundred dollars.

"I was really in a hurry trying to get home before my family was living on the streets," Clauer says.

Sold For A Steal

But by the time he got back to Texas, it was too late. The Clauers' four-bedroom, 3,500-square-foot home had been sold on the courthouse steps for just $3,500 — enough to cover outstanding HOA dues and legal costs.

The new owner quickly sold it for $135,000 and netted a tidy profit.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128078864&sc=emaf&source=patrick.net

http://cdn.mos.totalfilm.com/images/f/falling-down-01-800-75.jpg

[k-os]

It is difficult for me to pity someone who has purchased a home with an HOA. They moved into that neighborhood because they wanted the rules to keep their neighbors in line. In this case, the people didn't want to (forgot to, etc.) pay for that "luxury".

I personally do not need any more people telling me what to do than I already have. I purchased a home that is not in an HOA community (very rare around here). We still have town rules about grass height and parking nuisances, but they are based on health and safety whereas HOA rules are about "property value" and can grow to be as bad including any squeaky wheel's pet peeve.

My dad has to get permission to paint his house, then provide several samples to the HOA board for approval. They pick the colors from his samples! He's had to replace an expensive palm tree (his died), or else he would be fined because every one else has a palm tree in their front yard and he doesn't have one. Oh yeah, and they had to be about the same height. He has to have a certain colored light bulb in an outside light, and it must stay on all night long. Of course, the energy saving light bulbs don't have this desired yellowish tint. He has to have his roof pressure washed once a year. He has to have his driveway re-done every couple of years. These are just a few things he is required to do or else he will be fined.

He's one of the lucky ones, though, he only pays about $600 a year to be told what to do. I have a friend who pays about $275 a month to be told what to do at her house.

The part that is upsetting to me about the story is that this guy was in Iraq when it all went down, and his wife was not able to handle the home affairs for whatever reason. I can see many reasons why this would be the case, and in a perfect world, there would be exceptions made for this. The board of the HOA should be ashamed of themselves, but I bet they are not. They just wanted "their" money.

To answer your question, EE_ . . . what would I do? I would have never bought a house in an HOA. I have no other answer.

[chad]

my lord, that sounds horrible. why would he ever sign up for that torture?

[The Great Ag]

The key to understanding the article is this sentence:

Could it be possible that their home was foreclosed on and sold because his wife had missed two payments of their HOA dues?
Two payments could be two months, two quarterly payments (6 months) or two years. If this had happened to me, I would be looking very carefully at the paperwork sent to me. I am wondering if the HOA followed ALL the legal steps necessary. Here in Delaware, there would have to be a trial to determine if a debt was owed. An association CANNOT automatically sell a property on the court house steps without following a detailed procedure for debt payment.

If the HOA did NOT follow procedure, I would file a heft lawsuit against the HOA and cleanup big time.

Ofcourse, I would not have been two payments late on HOA fees, especially if my house was free and clear of any liens.

The Great Ag

[Libertarian_Guard]

I don't know about the emotional side of this story. Perhaps I would flip out, or perhaps not.

The real question here, is what ever became of the 'homestead clause' or 'homestead exemption' whereby after the dust bowl & depression, a man's (persons) home was their castle and they could not be removed from such premises.

How and why did we sell that out over the years?

Before 1990 there was no such thing as a second mortgage on property in Texas. And no person could be evicted from 'their' homestead.

[Bigjon]

Here is the last word of the story.

Legal Recourse

As for Clauer, he's gone from fighting in Iraq to fighting his HOA in Texas. And if he weren't in the military, Clauer would have no legal recourse at this point.

But in a spasm of gratitude in 2003, Congress passed the Servicemembers Civil Relief Act, which was supposed to prevent nonjudicial foreclosures against military personnel fighting overseas.

"Hopefully we're going to get the house back," Clauer says. "That's what we're fighting for — that the judge will understand that this was illegal. That the HOA can't do what they've done."

If a federal court decides in favor of the Clauers, the foreclosure and subsequent sales of their home would have to be unwound and the deed returned to them. If they lose, the captain's nice, paid-for, suburban home would be lost to his family forever. The case goes to court early next year.

[the riot act]

No sympathy from me here on this one. If you fail to read those 4 inch thick book of rules BEFORE you buy tough.

People here buy for prestige, to be able to say I live in "Rats Breath", (Boca Raton). Just go over to the "City Data" forum and look at the people who will not buy anywhere but a gated community with a ton of rules.

Screw them I say. I have no mercy for fools.

[palani]

How and why did we sell that out over the years?

The originals of a note and a mortgage are required to evict someone. Banks frequently do not keep originals any more. They sell them. Because of fractional reserve banking a note or a mortgage, each valued by example for say $100,000 are together valued at $200,000 when the underlying asset is only valued at $100,000. When listed as an asset the bank can loan $2 million dollars on these documents.

To make this system work a cognovit clause (confession of judgment) is inserted into the note. Says that if you miss a payment you get to be dispossessed on a warrant of attorney (not even a judge) and an original document is not needed.

The way to put a stop to this is to demand a receipt for both the note and the mortgage at closing. Makes the bank keep the originals as an account.

The home owners association is just another contract. Undoubtedly there is a cognovit clause in this agreement for this property to be sold. Cognovits are illegal in 45 states and closely regulated in the remaining five. They are intended for corporations not people.

Don't get me started. I can rant in volumes.

[k-os]

Thanks, palani. Good info.

[Hermie]

Anyone know the name of the $3,500 buyer?

[the riot act]

Thanks, palani. Good info.


In the case that the home is mortgaged, the Association will pay the mortgage payment in order to secure lien. The banks don't care who pays, and the HOA agreement is binding. This home was paid for making it soooo easy for the HOA to ram this through.

What surprises me that there is no question in my mind that they, (the HOA) had to send out a certified notice before any court would allow them to proceed. So, the wife's actions were probably more centered on what officers wives do, rather than taking responsibility for keeping up on what is going on. People really are dumb nowadays.

Yes it is, and you (k-os) may fall under that category. But, (and there always is one, isn't there) every case brought up in FL. the judge has sided with MERS so far.

[Book]

http://www.defense.gov/DODCMSShare/NewsStoryPhoto/2009-01/scr_081210-F-0317L-001.jpg
"You get to kill people for Israel and when you get out we will pay your college tuition"

:oo-->

[the riot act]

http://www.defense.gov/DODCMSShare/NewsStoryPhoto/2009-01/scr_081210-F-0317L-001.jpg
"You get to kill people for Israel and when you get out we will pay your college tuition"

:oo-->



That photo Book, makes me want to run down right now and sign up!

[Book]

That photo Book, makes me want to run down right now and sign up!



http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/femalerecruiter.jpg

http://www.elcivics.com/images/army-medals-ribbons.jpg

Bring your chick friends and tell them they will get to wear cool jewelry and awesome fashion stuff and get to travel!

:D

[wallew]

He KNOWS how to handle this.

S3

[Bigjon]

How and why did we sell that out over the years?

The originals of a note and a mortgage are required to evict someone. Banks frequently do not keep originals any more. They sell them. Because of fractional reserve banking a note or a mortgage, each valued by example for say $100,000 are together valued at $200,000 when the underlying asset is only valued at $100,000. When listed as an asset the bank can loan $2 million dollars on these documents.

To make this system work a cognovit clause (confession of judgment) is inserted into the note. Says that if you miss a payment you get to be dispossessed on a warrant of attorney (not even a judge) and an original document is not needed.

The way to put a stop to this is to demand a receipt for both the note and the mortgage at closing. Makes the bank keep the originals as an account.

The home owners association is just another contract. Undoubtedly there is a cognovit clause in this agreement for this property to be sold. Cognovits are illegal in 45 states and closely regulated in the remaining five. They are intended for corporations not people.

Don't get me started. I can rant in volumes.



I don’t think you’ve been keeping up with the Fed’s reserve limits.

Reservable liability Reserve requirement ratio
NET TRANSACTION ACCOUNTS:
$0 to reserve requirement exemption amount ($10.7 million) 0 percent of amount.

Over reserve requirement exemption amount ($10.7 million) and up to low reserve tranche ($55.2 million) 3 percent of amount.

Over low reserve tranche ($55.2 million) $1,335,000 plus 10 percent of amount over $55.2 million.

Nonpersonal time deposits 0 percent.
Eurocurrency liabilities 0 percent.
[Reg. D, 74 FR 25637, May 29, 2009, as amended at 74 FR 52875, Oct. 15, 2009]


Instead of a multiplier of 10 most banks can use a multiplier of 33, because most banks keep their demand deposit accounts below the 55.2 million cutoff.

[palani]

I don’t think you’ve been keeping up with the Fed’s reserve limits.

Reservable liability Reserve requirement ratio
NET TRANSACTION ACCOUNTS:
$0 to reserve requirement exemption amount ($10.7 million) 0 percent of amount.

Over reserve requirement exemption amount ($10.7 million) and up to low reserve tranche ($55.2 million) 3 percent of amount.

Over low reserve tranche ($55.2 million) $1,335,000 plus 10 percent of amount over $55.2 million.

Nonpersonal time deposits 0 percent.
Eurocurrency liabilities 0 percent.
[Reg. D, 74 FR 25637, May 29, 2009, as amended at 74 FR 52875, Oct. 15, 2009]


Instead of a multiplier of 10 most banks can use a multiplier of 33, because most banks keep their demand deposit accounts below the 55.2 million cutoff.

I most probably have some of the specifics wrong but I think the process I describe is basically correct.

[Skirnir]

One more good reason not to own a house; fail to pay the state, county, and HOA mafiosi and see whose house it really is.

I could imagine a high-tech semi-nomadic subculture emerging if people became averse to home ownership, but then again, people are not the brightest things and would rather be house-poor and a sitting target.

[palani]

One more good reason not to own a house; fail to pay the state, county, and HOA mafiosi and see whose house it really is.

That is not the message I see. Rather "don't enter your shelter into commerce". Build on your own land with no restrictions or covenants. Keep the cost below what is needed to require any permit. Stay off the grid. Use an outhouse rather than septic. Dig your own well rather than engage a well driller (they all report to the state). Receive your mail "General Delivery". Home school. Eliminate contracts.

[sirgonzo420]

One more good reason not to own a house; fail to pay the state, county, and HOA mafiosi and see whose house it really is.

That is not the message I see. Rather "don't enter your shelter into commerce". Build on your own land with no restrictions or covenants. Keep the cost below what is needed to require any permit. Stay off the grid. Use an outhouse rather than septic. Dig your own well rather than engage a well driller (they all report to the state). Receive your mail "General Delivery". Home school. Eliminate contracts.


I agree in principle, but it is MUCH easier said than done.

[philo beddoe]

No sympathy from me here on this one. If you fail to read those 4 inch thick book of rules BEFORE you buy tough.

People here buy for prestige, to be able to say I live in "Rats Breath", (Boca Raton). Just go over to the "City Data" forum and look at the people who will not buy anywhere but a gated community with a ton of rules.

Screw them I say. I have no mercy for fools.

People live in gated communities because the govt failed to KTNO. It is our gubmints fault.

[Quantum]

Another great argument for living in an RV.

For all their faults, the Gypsies are very right about one thing: you don't own it unless you can take it with you.

[Quantum]

People live in gated communities because the govt failed to KTNO. It is our gubmints fault.


I doubt there is one gated community in the entire country that is Niqqer-free. It's a CLASS thing, not a race thing. The rich, in the majority, are cool with Niqqers provided they have the proper level of affirmative-action-gained wealth and style.

I'd rather live near White working men and their families, than wealthy Niqqers. Most of the White rich are the reverse.

[philo beddoe]

It is difficult for me to pity someone who has purchased a home with an HOA. They moved into that neighborhood because they wanted the rules to keep their neighbors in line. In this case, the people didn't want to (forgot to, etc.) pay for that "luxury".

I personally do not need any more people telling me what to do than I already have. I purchased a home that is not in an HOA community (very rare around here). We still have town rules about grass height and parking nuisances, but they are based on health and safety whereas HOA rules are about "property value" and can grow to be as bad including any squeaky wheel's pet peeve.

My dad has to get permission to paint his house, then provide several samples to the HOA board for approval. They pick the colors from his samples! He's had to replace an expensive palm tree (his died), or else he would be fined because every one else has a palm tree in their front yard and he doesn't have one. Oh yeah, and they had to be about the same height. He has to have a certain colored light bulb in an outside light, and it must stay on all night long. Of course, the energy saving light bulbs don't have this desired yellowish tint. He has to have his roof pressure washed once a year. He has to have his driveway re-done every couple of years. These are just a few things he is required to do or else he will be fined.

He's one of the lucky ones, though, he only pays about $600 a year to be told what to do. I have a friend who pays about $275 a month to be told what to do at her house.

The part that is upsetting to me about the story is that this guy was in Iraq when it all went down, and his wife was not able to handle the home affairs for whatever reason. I can see many reasons why this would be the case, and in a perfect world, there would be exceptions made for this. The board of the HOA should be ashamed of themselves, but I bet they are not. They just wanted "their" money.

To answer your question, EE_ . . . what would I do? I would have never bought a house in an HOA. I have no other answer.
His wife was n doubt fucking someone else( probably black or mexican), smoking pot and drinking beer...and then whoops...forgot to pay some bills........

[Quantum]

His wife was n doubt f*cking someone else( probably black or mexican), smoking pot and drinking beer...and then whoops...forgot to pay some bills........


I don't think that's a fair assessment.

The wife was probably under incredible strain due to the Perpetual Wars for Zionism that military families suffer under. Some people are also just absent minded. Being an airhead does not come with a punishment of losing one's home.

This house was STOLEN from the family. It should be punished the same way occupied burglarly (home invasion) used to be: with death. If the guy who bought the house for $3,500 had any clue about the circumstances, he should be strung up on a light pole. Any of the HOA administration actively involved in victimizing this family should receive the same.

[the riot act]

That is not the message I see. Rather "don't enter your shelter into commerce". Build on your own land with no restrictions or covenants. Keep the cost below what is needed to require any permit. Stay off the grid. Use an outhouse rather than septic. Dig your own well rather than engage a well driller (they all report to the state). Receive your mail "General Delivery". Home school. Eliminate contracts.


There is no land available that you can own period. All land was put up as collateral by the gooberment in 33 I believe. Someone must pay a tax on it so the interest on the debt can be paid.



Another great argument for living in an RV.

For all their faults, the Gypsies are very right about one thing: you don't own it unless you can take it with you.


Yes Quantum that is the ideal solution till the whole thing collapses. RV high desert and very few trips to town. Still you will be parked on someone's land, but that probably is the best solution.

Back to the OP, the woman had to be to blame here. You just can't forget these things, so we are not getting the whole Story.

[Libertarian_Guard]

It is difficult for me to pity someone who has purchased a home with an HOA. They moved into that neighborhood because they wanted the rules to keep their neighbors in line. In this case, the people didn't want to (forgot to, etc.) pay for that "luxury".

I personally do not need any more people telling me what to do than I already have. I purchased a home that is not in an HOA community (very rare around here). We still have town rules about grass height and parking nuisances, but they are based on health and safety whereas HOA rules are about "property value" and can grow to be as bad including any squeaky wheel's pet peeve.

My dad has to get permission to paint his house, then provide several samples to the HOA board for approval. They pick the colors from his samples! He's had to replace an expensive palm tree (his died), or else he would be fined because every one else has a palm tree in their front yard and he doesn't have one. Oh yeah, and they had to be about the same height. He has to have a certain colored light bulb in an outside light, and it must stay on all night long. Of course, the energy saving light bulbs don't have this desired yellowish tint. He has to have his roof pressure washed once a year. He has to have his driveway re-done every couple of years. These are just a few things he is required to do or else he will be fined.

He's one of the lucky ones, though, he only pays about $600 a year to be told what to do. I have a friend who pays about $275 a month to be told what to do at her house.

The part that is upsetting to me about the story is that this guy was in Iraq when it all went down, and his wife was not able to handle the home affairs for whatever reason. I can see many reasons why this would be the case, and in a perfect world, there would be exceptions made for this. The board of the HOA should be ashamed of themselves, but I bet they are not. They just wanted "their" money.

To answer your question, EE_ . . . what would I do? I would have never bought a house in an HOA. I have no other answer.
His wife was n doubt f*cking someone else( probably black or mexican), smoking pot and drinking beer...and then whoops...forgot to pay some bills........


Philo

You response is over the top to say the least.

On the one hand I have to laugh, just because I deal with the absurd by laughter, and some things can't be taken seriously.

But in a vain attempt to pluck your brain, if the source could even be called such, where did you glean your conclusions from?

What do you know about the G.I.'s wife that no one else could ever have ascertained from the article?

Are you clairvoyant?

Or have all my assumptions about you been true?

[palani]

There is no land available that you can own period. All land was put up as collateral by the gooberment in 33 I believe. Someone must pay a tax on it so the interest on the debt can be paid.

Necessity imports privilege.

[willie pete]

HOA Suck; Totally.....but in South Florida, there aren't too many places where they don't exist, I heard about this story the other day, interesting Read,
What I find Disgusting is the part in the story about the TX state senator who supports its, oh and he just happens to OWN the largest HOA management company in the country, what a scuzz. I wonder how many HOA board members vote to foreclose and then go and buy the properties for speculation?

[Quantum]

But in a vain attempt to pluck your brain, if the source could even be called such, where did you glean your conclusions from?


I assume Philo believes all women are like his past girlfriends or wife (wives?). I feel sorry for him, but he mustn't project their lunacy and treachery onto all women.

[zap]

From our friend Phillo Quote

His wife was n doubt f*cking someone else( probably black or mexican), smoking pot and drinking beer...and then whoops...forgot to pay some bills........


Jesus Christ Phillo ,

Did you get up on the wrong side of the bed this am? That is a hell of a thing to say whats wrong with you, come on! Quit being so damn hateful >:(

[Bigjon]

There is no land available that you can own period. All land was put up as collateral by the gooberment in 33 I believe. Someone must pay a tax on it so the interest on the debt can be paid.

Necessity imports privilege.


Huh?

I'm curious, how about the English version.

And I wasn't trying to find fault with your bankers math, just thought you would like to know that they have really dropped the reserve requirements.

[Saul Mine]

I can't imagine why anybody would buy a property with HOA as a party to the deal.

[Silver Rocket Bitches!]

This story makes it seem like this all happened so quickly. You can't just foreclose on a house overnight then sell it on the courthouse steps the next day.

Sounds like maybe the wife neglected to disclose some things until it was too late?

They could have filed Chapter 13 and temporarily stopped any foreclosure proceedings for one.

[palani]

There is no land available that you can own period. All land was put up as collateral by the gooberment in 33 I believe. Someone must pay a tax on it so the interest on the debt can be paid.

Necessity imports privilege.


Huh?

I'm curious, how about the English version.

From "A Selection of Legal Maxims" by Herbert Broom
http://i45.tinypic.com/2hmlndf.jpg

Reflect on this sentiment a bit and you find that nothing is prohibited that is necessary.

[Skirnir]

One more good reason not to own a house; fail to pay the state, county, and HOA mafiosi and see whose house it really is.

That is not the message I see. Rather "don't enter your shelter into commerce". Build on your own land with no restrictions or covenants. Keep the cost below what is needed to require any permit. Stay off the grid. Use an outhouse rather than septic. Dig your own well rather than engage a well driller (they all report to the state). Receive your mail "General Delivery". Home school. Eliminate contracts.


I agree in principle, but it is MUCH easier said than done.


That may fend off the HOA mafiosi, but property and state taxes are still levied. Additionally, I would wager that the cost (either of construction or assessed value) of a house is higher than the threshold of the permit. The rest, though good ideas, are ancillary and of no consequence in relation to the issue of said taxes.

As for the rest of the legalese hokum, it is like this - they have leverage, I, you, or anyone else reading this do not. It is like dealing with Tony Soprano; of course you can come to him and contest whether one owes him 'protection money', and one may well be correct on account of some contract law dating back to 1066 or some other 'sovereign citizen' bull...yet his esteemed representative will still come by to collect his money, and one pays because kneecaps do not grow back. It's a shakedown, rule of law is only for those who can buy it.

[palani]

That may fend off the HOA mafiosi, but property and state taxes are still levied. Additionally, I would wager that the cost (either of construction or assessed value) of a house is higher than the threshold of the permit. The rest, though good ideas, are ancillary and of no consequence in relation to the issue of said taxes. So go underground. Things below ground are not taxed.


As for the rest of the legalese hokum, it is like this - they have leverage, I, you, or anyone else reading this do not. It is like dealing with Tony Soprano; of course you can come to him and contest whether one owes him 'protection money', and one may well be correct on account of some contract law dating back to 1066 or some other 'sovereign citizen' bull...yet his esteemed representative will still come by to collect his money, and one pays because kneecaps do not grow back. It's a shakedown, rule of law is only for those who can buy it.


There are too many "nice" people. Yet "nice" is legalese as is any other word you are likely to encounter. You might think I mean one thing while I might have an entirely different thought in mind:


nice
late 13c., "foolish, stupid, senseless," from O.Fr. nice "silly, foolish," from L. nescius "ignorant," lit. "not-knowing," from ne- "not" (see un-) + stem of scire "to know."

[Skirnir]

(redacted on account of length)


To the first, there is no land below-ground. Once a deed is transferred, it is above ground. Additionally, your argument still presupposes that one can fly under the radar with the permit business. Do you have any statistics regarding the cost of house construction, and the threshold for which a permit is required?

To the second, that is not a cogent refutation of my argument; it is not even a counter-argument much less.

[palani]

To the first, there is no land below-ground. Once a deed is transferred, it is above ground. Additionally, your argument still presupposes that one can fly under the radar with the permit business. Do you have any statistics regarding the cost of house construction, and the threshold for which a permit is required?
To the first: SAY WHAT?
To the second: Obviously you have missed entirely the concept of NOT ENTERING YOUR SHELTER INTO COMMERCE. Do you have any concept of what COMMERCE actually is?


To the second, that is not a cogent refutation of my argument; it is not even a counter-argument much less.
During your studies into commerce you might as well include the subject of argument as well


ARGUMENT, practice. Cicero defines it ii probable reason proposed in order to induce belief. Ratio probabilis et idonea ad faciendam fidem. The logicians define it more scientifically to be a means, which by its connexion between two extremes) establishes a relation between them. This subject belongs rather to rhetoric and logio than to law.

[TheNocturnalEgyptian]

Once again, somebody fucks themselves over by signing a contract they didn't actually want.

[Skirnir]

Palani: herein you have not make an iota of sense, are not worth my time, and have yet to even counter-argue my second argument. Additionally, stop with the capital letters already, it is puerile; note the proper use of capital letters in my posts.

Additionally, might I inquire if you are a lawyer?

[philo beddoe]

It is difficult for me to pity someone who has purchased a home with an HOA. They moved into that neighborhood because they wanted the rules to keep their neighbors in line. In this case, the people didn't want to (forgot to, etc.) pay for that "luxury".

I personally do not need any more people telling me what to do than I already have. I purchased a home that is not in an HOA community (very rare around here). We still have town rules about grass height and parking nuisances, but they are based on health and safety whereas HOA rules are about "property value" and can grow to be as bad including any squeaky wheel's pet peeve.

My dad has to get permission to paint his house, then provide several samples to the HOA board for approval. They pick the colors from his samples! He's had to replace an expensive palm tree (his died), or else he would be fined because every one else has a palm tree in their front yard and he doesn't have one. Oh yeah, and they had to be about the same height. He has to have a certain colored light bulb in an outside light, and it must stay on all night long. Of course, the energy saving light bulbs don't have this desired yellowish tint. He has to have his roof pressure washed once a year. He has to have his driveway re-done every couple of years. These are just a few things he is required to do or else he will be fined.

He's one of the lucky ones, though, he only pays about $600 a year to be told what to do. I have a friend who pays about $275 a month to be told what to do at her house.

The part that is upsetting to me about the story is that this guy was in Iraq when it all went down, and his wife was not able to handle the home affairs for whatever reason. I can see many reasons why this would be the case, and in a perfect world, there would be exceptions made for this. The board of the HOA should be ashamed of themselves, but I bet they are not. They just wanted "their" money.

To answer your question, EE_ . . . what would I do? I would have never bought a house in an HOA. I have no other answer.
His wife was n doubt f*cking someone else( probably black or mexican), smoking pot and drinking beer...and then whoops...forgot to pay some bills........


Philo

You response is over the top to say the least.

On the one hand I have to laugh, just because I deal with the absurd by laughter, and some things can't be taken seriously.

But in a vain attempt to pluck your brain, if the source could even be called such, where did you glean your conclusions from?

What do you know about the G.I.'s wife that no one else could ever have ascertained from the article?

Are you clairvoyant?

Or have all my assumptions about you been true?



WHat do you know? Adultery is rampant in the military, and morals are long gone. There is also a lot of women who marry queers in the military just to get the bennies.

[philo beddoe]

But in a vain attempt to pluck your brain, if the source could even be called such, where did you glean your conclusions from?


I assume Philo believes all women are like his past girlfriends or wife (wives?). I feel sorry for him, but he mustn't project their lunacy and treachery onto all women.
I don't talk about things without knowing about them Shasta. And no, I am not digging into my own past. Unless you want to talk about you own relationships.
http://www.welmer.org/2009/04/28/the-treachery-of-military-wives/
http://personals.aol.com/articles/2010/03/15/cheating-on-a-military-spouse-the-worst-kind-of-betrayal/

[philo beddoe]

But in a vain attempt to pluck your brain, if the source could even be called such, where did you glean your conclusions from?


I assume Philo believes all women are like his past girlfriends or wife (wives?). I feel sorry for him, but he mustn't project their lunacy and treachery onto all women.
Maybe you agree with everything else Lib says too?

Link to Google Search (http://www.google.com/search?q=adultry++military+wives&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)


EDIT: Changed long link to named link to prevent horizontal scrolling. -Gaillo

[philo beddoe]

From our friend Phillo Quote

His wife was n doubt f*cking someone else( probably black or mexican), smoking pot and drinking beer...and then whoops...forgot to pay some bills........


Jesus Christ Phillo ,

Did you get up on the wrong side of the bed this am? That is a hell of a thing to say whats wrong with you, come on! Quit being so damn hateful >:(
:o

[Skirnir]

Military divorce rates are higher, most likely on account of the generous benefits afforded to divorced women and pure boredom during deployments.

[wildcard]

I have to go with Philo here. They were called west pac widows on Camp Pendleton. When their men were out on a det they were at the e-club trying to pick up a new man.

[Book]

http://www.utne.com/uploadedImages/utne/blogs/Spirituality/Adultery.jpg

:oo-->

[palani]

Palani: herein you have not make an iota of sense, are not worth my time, and have yet to even counter-argue my second argument. Additionally, stop with the capital letters already, it is puerile; note the proper use of capital letters in my posts.In a world of the blind a one eyed man might be KING.


Additionally, might I inquire if you are a lawyer?

No, you may not inquire. You are entitled to no due process because you have received no NOTICE. Your right to inquire is derived from NOTICE and you have received none (from me). Should you have received NOTICE from others then by all means pursue your inquiry from THEM.

[philo beddoe]

I have to go with Philo here. They were called west pac widows on Camp Pendleton. When their men were out on a det they were at the e-club trying to pick up a new man.


Link to Google Search (http://www.google.com/search?q=pendleton+west+pac+widows&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)


EDIT: Changed long link to named link to prevent horizontal scrolling. -Gaillo

[Skirnir]

Palani: herein you have not make an iota of sense, are not worth my time, and have yet to even counter-argue my second argument. Additionally, stop with the capital letters already, it is puerile; note the proper use of capital letters in my posts.In a world of the blind a one eyed man might be KING.


Additionally, might I inquire if you are a lawyer?

No, you may not inquire. You are entitled to no due process because you have received no NOTICE. Your right to inquire is derived from NOTICE and you have received none (from me). Should you have received NOTICE from others then by all means pursue your inquiry from THEM.


Ladies and gentlemen, my point is proven.

As a side note, :o LOOK at my capital letters just LOOK at them because they are so ::) BIG and ATTENTION :o GRABBING. See Palani? I can do that too.

[wildcard]

I have to go with Philo here. They were called west pac widows on Camp Pendleton. When their men were out on a det they were at the e-club trying to pick up a new man.


Link to Google Search (http://www.google.com/search?q=pendleton+west+pac+widows&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)


ROFL. They demolished the Del Mar e-club! Those rat bastards!



Military Spouse,

If you were stationed in Camp Pendleton, then you would have known about the E-Club at Del Mar. It was closed in the late 90s. Ask him, he'll tell you. It was so bad, they actually closed and demolished it. And it was about 200 ft. from the barracks.


Damn, they even shut down the area 24 e-club. That was a great club.


They did, however, shut down the NCO club that used to be right by the airstation barracks on Pendleton. That place was the quintessential E-club--right out of Heartbreak Ridge or something. It was a Quonset Hut, with brick interior walls, and was filled with Marine propaganda and old folks as staff. First, they made it into an all-ranks club, and then they ripped it down to make a parking lot. Bastards.


EDIT: Changed long link in quote to named link, to prevent horizontal scrolling. -Gaillo

[palani]

Ladies and gentlemen, my point is proven.


point (n.)
12c., a merger of two words, both ultimately from L. pungere "prick, pierce" (see pungent). The neut. pp. punctum was used as a noun, meaning "small hole made by pricking

That and $.10 should get you $.10 worth of satisfaction.

[woodman]

I gotta side with Philo here. It is the oldest story in the book. The man is away from home and the wife lets everything pile up while she is off shopping. I'm not denigrating women, I think just as many men are capable (incapable in this case) and would show the same errant behavior. She may very well have been out fvcking around and letting important things slide.

[gunDriller]

It is difficult for me to pity someone who has purchased a home with an HOA. They moved into that neighborhood because they wanted the rules to keep their neighbors in line. In this case, the people didn't want to (forgot to, etc.) pay for that "luxury".

i have to respectfully disagree.

it took me one bad experience with an HOA about a fence i put up to make me realize that HOA sucked.

how is this young couple supposed to know that HOA's suck 99% of the time ? to most first time home-buyers, the HOA is just something that comes along with the home. like a big tic sucking $300 a month out of your pocket, merely for paying the gardener & the water bill.

artist's rendition of a parasite. the engorged tick represents the HOA
http://www.borislavdopudja.net/img/writings/ticks_1_big.jpg

[wildcard]

I'd buy a yarmulke and scream anti-semitism.

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/24094600/detail.html

Group Hit In 'Hebrew Race' Discrimination Case
Families Win Multimillion Lawsuit Against Hemlock Associates Of Lakeville

POSTED: 11:19 am EDT June 30, 2010


BOSTON --
A civil rights trial against a homeowner's association accused of discriminating against Jewish members has ended in a settlement that is believed to be the largest in Plymouth County history.

A jury found Tuesday that Hemlock Associates of Lakeville, Inc. violated the civil rights of Donald and Julie Prescott and Scott J. Hyman after a 10-day trial in Plymouth Superior Court.

The jury awarded the Prescotts $600,000 for the violations of their civil rights and an additional $150,000 for nuisance. Together, with interest, the judgment is in excess of $1.2 million.

The jury awarded Scott J. Hyman $850,000 for the violations of his civil rights and an additional $100,000 for nuisance. Together, with interest, the judgment is in excess of $1.3 million.

The families alleged that they were subjected during a two-year period to anti-Semitic acts, including hate mail and the painting of two large Swastikas on each of their respective garages.

They also alleged that they were repeatedly photographed by association members and subjected to repeated unfounded complaints to the local police and town officials as reported by association members.

In the deeds to some of the properties in the Hemlock Association appears language that the property should not be sold to a "member of the Hebrew race," attorney India Minchoff said.

In addition, within weeks of an association member's comments that "someone is going to burn him (Hyman) out," Hyman’s home in Middleboro, Mass., was torched and burned to the ground, according to Minchoff. There is an ongoing arson investigation.

Hyman said he also called a "kike" and was told by association members in the first few months of his purchase of land in the Hemlock Association that his "kind" was not welcome there.

Throughout the trial, the association denied the accusations and insinuated that the plaintiffs themselves were responsible for the anti-Semitic acts.

*check out the comments:

WRosencratz:

Boston is inherently a racist and anti-Semitic city. Until we Jews can reduce the white population to a small minority via mass immigration and intermarriage, I am afraid these vicious anti-Semitic attacks will continue.

[palani]

*check out the comments:

WRosencratz:

Boston is inherently a racist and anti-Semitic city. Until we Jews can reduce the white population to a small minority via mass immigration and intermarriage, I am afraid these vicious anti-Semitic attacks will continue.


The referenced comment is so cheezy I would question the source.

[JDRock]

It is difficult for me to pity someone who has purchased a home with an HOA. They moved into that neighborhood because they wanted the rules to keep their neighbors in line. In this case, the people didn't want to (forgot to, etc.) pay for that "luxury".

I personally do not need any more people telling me what to do than I already have. I purchased a home that is not in an HOA community (very rare around here). We still have town rules about grass height and parking nuisances, but they are based on health and safety whereas HOA rules are about "property value" and can grow to be as bad including any squeaky wheel's pet peeve.

My dad has to get permission to paint his house, then provide several samples to the HOA board for approval. They pick the colors from his samples! He's had to replace an expensive palm tree (his died), or else he would be fined because every one else has a palm tree in their front yard and he doesn't have one. Oh yeah, and they had to be about the same height. He has to have a certain colored light bulb in an outside light, and it must stay on all night long. Of course, the energy saving light bulbs don't have this desired yellowish tint. He has to have his roof pressure washed once a year. He has to have his driveway re-done every couple of years. These are just a few things he is required to do or else he will be fined.

He's one of the lucky ones, though, he only pays about $600 a year to be told what to do. I have a friend who pays about $275 a month to be told what to do at her house.

The part that is upsetting to me about the story is that this guy was in Iraq when it all went down, and his wife was not able to handle the home affairs for whatever reason. I can see many reasons why this would be the case, and in a perfect world, there would be exceptions made for this. The board of the HOA should be ashamed of themselves, but I bet they are not. They just wanted "their" money.

To answer your question, EE_ . . . what would I do? I would have never bought a house in an HOA. I have no other answer.


i could not agree more with you.....he signed a pact with the devil and then wondered what went wrong! government is ALWAYS oppressive and wrong....history fails for a SINGLE example of governments being benevolent and logical.

[BrewTech]

I can't imagine why anybody would buy a property with HOA as a party to the deal.


I'd guess it's for the same reason folks feel it is necessary to obtain a "marriage license"...

[Skirnir]

I can't imagine why anybody would buy a property with HOA as a party to the deal.


I'd guess it's for the same reason folks feel it is necessary to obtain a "marriage license"...


Those a scam. On the other hand, I recall common-law marriage is imposed after 7 years of cohabitation.

[Quantum]

Those a scam. On the other hand, I recall common-law marriage is imposed after 7 years of cohabitation.


Only in a few states.

[k-os]

It is difficult for me to pity someone who has purchased a home with an HOA. They moved into that neighborhood because they wanted the rules to keep their neighbors in line. In this case, the people didn't want to (forgot to, etc.) pay for that "luxury".

i have to respectfully disagree.

it took me one bad experience with an HOA about a fence i put up to make me realize that HOA sucked.

how is this young couple supposed to know that HOA's suck 99% of the time ? to most first time home-buyers, the HOA is just something that comes along with the home. like a big tic sucking $300 a month out of your pocket, merely for paying the gardener & the water bill.

artist's rendition of a parasite. the engorged tick represents the HOA
<image removed>


We've had HOAs in my area since I was a kid. My parents lived in one, my friends' parents lived in them too. I learned from their experiences that HOAs suck. When I bought my first house at 26, I decided I did not want to live in an HOA, and I never would. If every area around here had an HOA, I would move out of the area.

And to be fair, some fence disputes can happen in a city or town too, not just HOAs. In my city, I have to leave an easement at the edge of my property. I think anything 15 yards from the middle of the road I can build on. Also, fences facing the street must be 4' high, while fences on the sides can be 8', but they can't tell me what I can build my fence out of, which is nice.

[dysgenic]

Property ownership is a scam that doesn't exist- except if you are with the government or a bank- in the real world. As scams go, it makes me angrier than most.

dys

[Libertarian_Guard]

http://i45.tinypic.com/vra90h.jpg

This case was featured on 60 minutes and the wife recevied several notices and simply did not open the mail. That is demonstrative of grave irresponsibility albeit the result of some compromise of faculty. Although the HOA acted in accordance with the law, they did not act in accordance with what is supposed to be its (and every HOAs) intent, which is to promote and maintain community. Instead of focusing on the most important aspect of community, the people, HOAs are increasingly operating as businesses elevating the bottom line above all else. Nevertheless, the wife completely disregarded her responsibilities. The HOA essentially took advantage of what is obviously some form of mental incapacitation. This is a hard lesson learned. This is certainly not a neighborhood in which I would want to live--all things considered.
Thursday, July 01, 2010 1:10:08 PM

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/storyComments.php?storyId=128078864&pageNum=3

[the riot act]

Homeowners Association That Evicted U.S. Soldier Gets Death Threats (http://www.housingwatch.com/2010/06/30/homeowners-association-that-evicted-u-s-soldier-gets-death-thre/)

By Candy Evans Jun 30th 2010 @ 3:17PM

We told you about U.S. Army National Guard Capt. Michael Clauer and his wife, May, who lost their Frisco, Texas home because they fell behind on home association dues. Now the HOA is getting blowback.

In Texas, if you fail to pay your home association dues, an HOA has the legal power to foreclose on your home -- even if you own it free and clear. May Clauer says that she got into a funk over her husband's deployment and failed to pay bills. She let the mail pile up, even the certified letters. May and her parents owned the $300,000 Frisco home free and clear -- May's parents apparently helped her buy the place, which is about 20 miles north of Dallas.

But the Clauers lost their home by failing to pay $977.55 in homeowners association dues.

Now their case is heating up the Lone Star State, and could become a pivotal argument for changing Texas state law. In years past, bills to protect Texas homeowners from the claws of HOAs have failed. But due to the unique circumstances in this case -- Capt. Clauer is in the military, fighting to defend his country in Iraq -- the topic may come up as fast as a summer storm, once the legislature convenes in January. The story is spreading on local and national blogs, and gaining steam in the continuing saga over HOA power in Texas.

Meantime, the Clauer family has been allowed to live in the house under a judge's order, and a federal district judge ordered all the parties to try and mediate a settlement. Everyone involved in the case has hired an attorney -- some may even need bodyguards.

The story has become so hot, in fact, that the Heritage Lakes Homeowners Association and its management company, Select Management, have received death threats. The HOA hired a high-profile Dallas publicist, David Margulies, once an award-winning reporter for the local ABC affiliate, WFAA-TV. Margulies has had some challenging clients: Wal-Mart; a travel company investor accused of deceptive sales and advertising practices; the step-grandson of Anna Nicole Smith, and a troubled tile company. Margulies has been fighting back in the media on behalf of the HOA -- with a second report on WFAA, an in-depth story in The Dallas Morning News, and on local blogs.

The attorney representing the Clauers is banning her clients from interviews pending deposition.

"This is so outrageous," their attorney, Barbara Hale, told The Dallas Morning News. "There's a strong opposition to the power that HOAs are granted in Texas that goes beyond Capt. Clauer and his military status."

Clauer's military status, and whether he was active when the home was foreclosed on, is crucial to the case, according to attorneys. A federal law, the Servicemembers Civil Relief Act, protects those on active duty from certain legal and financial obligations, including foreclosure, without going to court. Captain Clauer was on active duty from Feb 15, 2008 to October 9, 2009.

But the publicist, Margulies, says that Heritage Lakes checked with the military and were told he was not on active duty. In fact, they received a certificate from the military stating that Clauer was not even in the military. Margulies claims that the Clauers were behind on their debts -- including payments to the HOA -- long before Michael Clauer was deployed to Iraq, where he commanded a convoy security company. The irony in this whole situation, said Margulies in an e-mail, is that had Capt. Clauer or anyone else contacted the HOA by telephone, fax, e-mail or regular mail, and told them that he was in the military, there would have been no foreclosure.

"The HOA has a 24/7 answering service, as well as a webpage and e-mail address," says Margulies. "Had anyone contacted the HOA and said the family was having financial trouble they would have worked out a payment plan. The family was two years behind in their HOA dues – not the two payments that Channel 8 reported."

Hale says that in spring of 2009, when May Clauer realized she was behind on the HOA dues, she called and made a payment. Later that spring, the new owner stopped by and asked if the house was a rental -- making no reference to the fact that he had purchased it at auction.

Margulies also wonders how a person could ignore bills for that length of time -- particularly utility bills. When you fail to pay your electric bill, off go the lights.

The difference, says Hale, is that the utilities give you a warning before they cut off service; Heritage Lake Homeowners Association gave no warning. According to the Morning News, the Clauer home was purchased at an auction for $3201 by Mark DiSanti and Steeplechase Productions. The house was sold in May 2009 for $135,000 to Jad Aboul-Jibin of Plano, Texas, also north of Dallas, who also now has an attorney. The attorney says his client is an innocent buyer and simply needs to be reimbursed -- which no one has offered to do thus far.

The HOA is very patriotic, says Margulies; it recently received a flag and plaque for raising money for soldiers during Operation Iraqi Freedom. And one good thing has happened out of this mess. Margulies says his clients, Heritage Lakes Homeowners Association, will now ask people when they purchase a home if they are in the military. And they also will call homeowners as part of its regular protocol during any foreclosure proceedings.

As to who gets to stay in the house, all that may be decided this week -- stay tuned.

[palani]

Whether in the military or not cognovits are illegal clauses in contracts unless you happen to be a corporation. An illegal contract is void from inception.

[Mister_Pennyweather]

How and why did we sell that out over the years?

The originals of a note and a mortgage are required to evict someone. Banks frequently do not keep originals any more. They sell them. Because of fractional reserve banking a note or a mortgage, each valued by example for say $100,000 are together valued at $200,000 when the underlying asset is only valued at $100,000. When listed as an asset the bank can loan $2 million dollars on these documents.

To make this system work a cognovit clause (confession of judgment) is inserted into the note. Says that if you miss a payment you get to be dispossessed on a warrant of attorney (not even a judge) and an original document is not needed.

The way to put a stop to this is to demand a receipt for both the note and the mortgage at closing. Makes the bank keep the originals as an account.

The home owners association is just another contract. Undoubtedly there is a cognovit clause in this agreement for this property to be sold. Cognovits are illegal in 45 states and closely regulated in the remaining five. They are intended for corporations not people.

Don't get me started. I can rant in volumes.



Continue ranting please. Most states prohibit cognovitis clauses I thought. What about states where they are prohibited?

[palani]

Most states prohibit cognovitis clauses I thought. What about states where they are prohibited?


My understanding is that the states where these "confession of judgment clauses" are valid but regulated limit them to corporations only. The Pennsylvania code below might be typical

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/231/chapter2950/chap2950toc.html


CHAPTER 2950. CONFESSION OF JUDGMENT FOR MONEY Rule 2950. Definitions.

As used in this chapter

‘‘action’’ means a proceeding to enter a judgment by confession for money pursuant to an instrument, other than an instrument executed by a natural person in connection with a consumer credit transaction, authorizing such confession.

Official Note

The action is abolished insofar as it would apply to a confession of judgment which is part of an instrument executed in connection with a consumer credit transaction.

‘‘consumer credit transaction’’ means a credit transaction in which the party to whom credit is offered or extended is a natural person and the money, property or services which are the subject of the transaction are primarily for personal, family or household purposes.

And if you look at a definition of cognovit you will find it is merely a cost savings measure (of course ... just not for YOU)


COGNOVIT JUDGEMENT

• COGNOVIT JUDGEMENT (noun)
The noun COGNOVIT JUDGEMENT has 1 sense:

1. a judgment entered after a written confession by the debtor without the expense of ordinary legal proceedings

Since you might have already agreed through this clause to relinquish your home if you miss a payment then the originals of the note and mortgage are no longer necessary in court to establish the right of the lender to kick you out (at least so they believe). Why not sell the originals for 1-2% gain on the day of closing and continue to collect payment on the contract EVEN THOUGH THE LENDER WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO PROVIDE AN ORIGINAL WHEN THE DEBT IS PAID?

The subject of notes and mortgages is a bit of a thread drift but I have no doubt but what HOAs use confession of judgment to displace the homeowner.

[Skirnir]

Palani has a plan: quote law to the barrel of a gun. How foolish!

[Book]

Palani has a plan: quote law to the barrel of a gun. How foolish!


Yep. Supreme Court wipes their asses with our Constitution and we can disappear via FBI knock at the door now:


Accepting an argument by the Obama administration, the court ruled that material support can include advising terrorist groups to pursue their objectives peacefully. Conservatives on the court, joined by Justice John Paul Stevens, rejected the free-speech claims of activists who wanted to advocate nonviolence to Kurdish nationalists in Turkey and the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka. The defense of the 1st Amendment was left to the dissenters, led by Justice Stephen G. Breyer. Breyer would have interpreted the law to criminalize speech and association otherwise protected by the 1st Amendment "only when the defendant knows or intends that those activities will assist the organization's unlawful terrorist actions."

:o

[EE_]

Palani has a plan: quote law to the barrel of a gun. How foolish!


Yep. Supreme Court wipes their asses with our Constitution and we can disappear via FBI knock at the door now:


Accepting an argument by the Obama administration, the court ruled that material support can include advising terrorist groups to pursue their objectives peacefully. Conservatives on the court, joined by Justice John Paul Stevens, rejected the free-speech claims of activists who wanted to advocate nonviolence to Kurdish nationalists in Turkey and the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka. The defense of the 1st Amendment was left to the dissenters, led by Justice Stephen G. Breyer. Breyer would have interpreted the law to criminalize speech and association otherwise protected by the 1st Amendment "only when the defendant knows or intends that those activities will assist the organization's unlawful terrorist actions."

:o




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKLNjhu0GmI&feature=related

[palani]

Palani has a plan: quote law to the barrel of a gun. How foolish!
Do you have guns pointed at you often?

[palani]

Yep. Supreme Court wipes their asses with our Constitution and we can disappear via FBI knock at the door now:
Is this your "Book", Demosthenes?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_mMkclob_jW4/TBNWnltMxJI/AAAAAAAAA4s/e0imYlU17Y0/s1600/1984.jpg

[gunDriller]

i think the HOA is stupid to stick it to a US military man. It sounds like they're putting him in a situation where he has nothing to lose.

he doesn't deserve to spend time in a 7x9 cell, but i wouldn't be surprised if he uses the HOA for target practice.