Is the stock market a dead man walking?

[EE_]

Are people figuring out how rigged it is and will they abandon the markets forever?
How is it investing when you know how the market works.
Today with the computer and with highly sophisticated programs, that are set to siphon off all the real wealth, combined with inside information, how does the small gambler have a chance?
Once the small gambler leaves the market forever and hedge fund managers are done burning through pension, annuity, government money, etc. what will be left to be stolen?

[Carbon]

Once the small gambler leaves the market forever and hedge fund managers are done burning through pension, annuity, government money, etc. what will be left to be stolen?


The souls of those who refused to sell them in the first place.

[oldmansmith]

Hey man, "The Stock market ALWAYS goes up over time."


How many times have you heard that? A friend of mine did finally listen, sold out and paid off his mortgage. He still hasn't bought any gold though, but two out of three ain't bad.

[Ponce]

And that's why I invest on myself because I know where all the chips are at......for a friking dumn Cuban refugee with a 10th grade education I have done very well.....is not what you have but what you do with what you have.

[StreetsOfGold]

IF you are a member of Marketwatch, log in and just view the comments of almost any lead article. 95%+ of the people commenting KNOW the market is rigged. Only a few shills show up from time to time to bash gold.

[bellevuebully]

Good Q, and one that I ponder myself. Personally, I have pulled all investment account equity holdings and paid the taxes. How can I possibly see 'investing' in a casino-oriented environment. As you said, computers trade to siphon off real wealth. How many 'investors' are left in the market?

I have a feeling that generating cashflow via stock/bond markets to support a retirement lifestyle is a thing of the past. I cannot visualize what vehicle will be available for investment once (if) the lid ever gets blown off the corruption that is the stock markets today. What will replace them? My feeling is that rather than saving/investing for the next 20 years to support retirement, saving and buying goods that will help support me will be where things are at. ie....land, tractor, guns, ammo, etc. Then with these things, maybe one can generate cash flow with commerce. ie, hay, corn, firewood, services.

With the depression in the 30's, it took 25 years to regain the losses. If the world today is awash in debt levels that eclipse the 30's, when the lid comes off, how long will it take before the world normalizes? For us in midlife, not soon enough I'm afraid. I'd love to think I will spend 60-80 fishing, hunting and golfing, but I have a feeling I'm going to be bucking, chopping and piling instead.

So to answer your question....I can't see how it isn't.

[gunDriller]

2 metaphors come to mind.

one is the partial resurrection of a dead cat in the movie Re-animator.

so instead of bringing a dead cat back to life, the market manipulator's bring the stock market back to life.

the other metaphor is a trick some medical students played at Stanford about 30 years ago. i was sharing a house with some recent grads & grad students. dinner table conversation sometimes got a little raunchy.

the med students were in the cadaver dissection room and had a dead African American male with a rather large trouser snake. a few of the students ran a string through the cadaver so that when the female med student they were playing the joke on leaned over the cadaver, they pulled the string and it got an erection.


so whether it's a dead cat walking again, or a dead black man with a rigged erection, i think either metaphor does a good job of representing the current state of the US stock market.

makes me wonder how rigged the markets are in other parts of the world, e.g. Australia (ASX) and Toronto (TSX.)

[Twisted Titan]

I really dont give a flying rip

All I care about when the stockmarket hammer finally dose fall.

It wont be on my neck.


T

[MNeagle]

Stocks soar, putting Dow back above 10,000

NEW YORK — The Dow Jones industrials climbed back above 10,000 Wednesday after investors had second thoughts about the heavy selling in the stock market during the last two weeks.

Stocks soared and the Dow rose 275 points after a modest gain Tuesday. It was the market's first back-to-back advance since mid-June and the first close above psychological benchmark of 10,000 since June 28. But analysts warn that the buying doesn't mean that investors are more optimistic. They said there wasn't a single catalyst behind the move and that it looked like a case of investors scooping up stocks that had become cheaper after heavy losses.

more (http://www.startribune.com/business/97969099.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD 3aPc:_Yyc:aUac8HEaDiaMDCinchO7DU)

[AndreaGail]

I've never owned a stock and don't plan on changing that anytime soon

I'd much rather invest in tangibles (if you dont hold it you dont own it)

[Sparky]

The stock market has a real component and a rigged component. Over the long run (decades), the real component reflects the performance of the businesses that underlies the paper equities. If there were no inflation, the market would look like a series of long waves that match the 15-20 year business cycles. Because of inflation, the waves slope upward with time. As an investor, it is wise to buy and hold near the beginning of an up cycle, like during the 1980s and the 1950s and the 1910s. I suspect it will be wise again in the 2020s.

Then there's the rigged component. Manipulation happens on time frames of weeks and months. There may be high speed trading to efficiently skim, but there's always been insiders who have the upper hand. Remember, if they make it "too" rigged, everyone will stay away, and there will be no money to steal. They know this. So there's nothing new here really. It's just been modernized.

[AndreaGail]

Hey man, "The Stock market ALWAYS goes up over time."


How many times have you heard that? A friend of mine did finally listen, sold out and paid off his mortgage. He still hasn't bought any gold though, but two out of three ain't bad.




o man that phrase is annoying

the only one that is worse is the "if you invest in xxx and get a yield of x(some nonsensical number like 7 or 8%) per year..." in regards to people trying to push 401k and the like

[Sparky]

...
But analysts warn that the buying doesn't mean that investors are more optimistic. They said there wasn't a single catalyst behind the move and that it looked like a case of investors scooping up stocks that had become cheaper after heavy losses.


Technical trading. The 200-DMA for the Dow is in the 10,300s.

[Jersey Thursday]

Technical trading. The 200-DMA for the Dow is in the 10,300s.


How does the DMA work (in theory)? A big stack of computers with liquid assets that kick into a buy when the DOW reaches a certain level?

[Korbin Dallas]

I've been telling people this for years, odds worse than roulette, and it isn't even fun, like Vegas.

Unfortunately, a good friend of mine doesn't believe it, and quit his job to "day trade" a few years ago using some crackpot system he bought into. He made some money at first, but a lost house, dissolved marraige, lost business, and an ulcer are all he has left to show for it. I feel bad for the guy, but he still hasn't learned. The stock market becomes an addiction to some, and the big investment banks are the dealers and pushers.

[Horn]

Are people figuring out how rigged it is and will they abandon the markets forever?
How is it investing when you know how the market works.


http://www.southdacola.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/new-casino-interior-picture.jpg

[BabushkaLady]

Are people figuring out how rigged it is and will they abandon the markets forever?

I don't think they'll figure out the rigged part, just the losing money part. :o

I've always laughed when the sheeple cry about jobs going over-seas, unemployment and how bad Walmart is. Aren't these the same "investors" that demand a return on their gamble? Where did they think the profit in P/E comes from?

[Sparky]

Technical trading. The 200-DMA for the Dow is in the 10,300s.


How does the DMA work (in theory)? A big stack of computers with liquid assets that kick into a buy when the DOW reaches a certain level?

If the DMA is a ceiling, then sell when it approaches the ceiling. If it's a floor, buy as it approaches the floor. Right now it's a ceiling.

It's simply based on the theory that things deviate from normal, then they return to normal, i.e. gravitating toward the mean.

[EE_]

Are people figuring out how rigged it is and will they abandon the markets forever?

I don't think they'll figure out the rigged part, just the losing money part. :o

I've always laughed when the sheeple cry about jobs going over-seas, unemployment and how bad Walmart is. Aren't these the same "investors" that demand a return on their gamble? Where did they think the profit in P/E comes from?




Where do people think the hundreds of billions in bonuses and multi-million pay days to wall street come from?