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Johnny Ringo
12th July 2010, 11:34 PM
In Book's thread on Magill's concealment wear, we discussed compact, single-stack autos for carry during hot weather, when a lot of clothing would be not only conspicuous, but downright uncomfortable. I'd mentioned how my Sig P-229 (in .40 S&W) clearly "printed" when wearing my SmartCarry in-the-pants holster and a tucked in shirt, despite claims by the SmartCarry folks that it wouldn't. Book mentioned his Kahr P-9 as his hot-weather piece, so I started looking at them.

The P series was a little more than I wanted to spend, and I had a hard time finding any Kahrs in 9mm. But I found the Kahr CW-40 (.40 S&W). The CW is basically the economy version of the P series, and I won't go into the differences here (easy enough to look up.) Capacity is 6 +1, one less than the 9mm.

The salesman told me up front that a minimum 200 round break-in was recommended by Kahr. He also said that it wouldn't be much fun to shoot, and if I did the whole break-in during one session, I'd have a sore hand at the end of it due to the hard, roughly-checkered grips. And it would kick like a mule. He was right on those points. Here's a detailed breakout:

Look/Feel: I bought the two-tone, black polymer frame and stainless matte slide. Looks good. Not a pocket pistol, but not much bigger. Lightweight, and feels good in the hand. I have fairly small hands, and my pinky nestles nicely against the mag grip extension. Fits nicely in my SmartCarry holster for medium-size pistols, same as I use for my P-229. Much more comfortable to carry there than the heavier P-229.

Accuracy: Not bad. Any issues with accuracy are likely due to the operator - I don't shoot as much as I need to, and I've probably developed some bad habits in my old age. That said, I have better accuracy with my Taurus P-101, XD-40 Subcompact, and my Sig P-229. Still, you don't buy the CW-40 to punch holes in paper - you get it to neutralize a threat. It'll get the job done. Sights are fixed, BTW.

Performance: As mentioned, the muzzle flip is very pronounced. I found it difficult to control. A true double-tap is out of the question for me - I need about a second to reaquire the target due to the muzzle flip. The trigger pull, as all the reviews said, is verrrrryyyyyy long, with no perceived increase in resistance. About the time you say to yourself, "WTF is wrong with th---" BAM! The trigger releases very far back and very suddenly. It took awhile to get used to. Some reviews said they had trouble getting the first round to chamber, and I found this true as well. Sometimes I could press the slide release and it would slam the first round home, and other times it wouldn't. Similarly, pulling back on the slide slightly and releasing it also worked only sporadically. I often had to pull the slide back and offer a slight forward assist to get the slide to chamber that first round.

Reliability: I read as many reviews as I could. One reviewer said his kept malfunctioning using Winchester White Box ammo. I had a 100 round box of the WWB target ammo (FMJ), and it ate it with no problems. I then went to a value-pack (100 rd) of Remington JHP. My very first mag, I had a failure-to-feed after firing the first round. The malfunction was easily cleared by pulling back on the slide and giving it a forward "assist." I had several FTFs throughout the rest of that box of JHPs, and it was ALWAYS the second round that didn't feed. I was rotating 3 mags, and the FTFs happened at one time or another with all three. Just to make sure it wasn't a cleaning issue, I put three mags of Federal 180 gr. FMJ (the kind showing up at WallyWorld) through it after shooting up the Remington JHPs - no malfunctions at all.

Bottom Line: I was frankly a little disappointed with the FTFs. At least there weren't any FTEs, which I think are more difficult to clear. I got to the point where I expected the second round of a mag not to feed, and I was able to remedy the malfunction quickly. Still, I expected more. I have put all kinds of ammo through my Sig, CZ, Beretta, P-101, and XD without a malfunction of any kind. I don't feel uncomfortable using the Kahr as a primary carry piece since I feel I know what to expect, but I'm going to use FMJ in it until I test out some different hollow points.

Hope the info is useful to someone, and I'll be happy to answer any questions.

Rebel Yarr
13th July 2010, 07:36 PM
Nice review - always enjoy reading the reports.

Some actions don't like full hollow points - I've found the Horandy Critical Defense ammo to be more accommodating to picky feeders.

Book
13th July 2010, 09:48 PM
Great review JR.

This DeSantis Nemesis (http://media.midwayusa.com/ProductImages/Large/115445.jpg) pocket holster will go a long way in allowing you to fully appreciate the SUMMER concealed carry of your Kahr. Fits perfect in the front pocket of a pair of cargo shorts. My Kahr P9 in 9mm kicks much less than your .40 cal. Common experience of Kahr owners all report that it is better to rack the first round using the thumb stop release. Obviously you will need to experiment to decide on the best ammo during the break-in period.

I'm not man enough for a .40 cal pistol as small as the Kahr. Maybe that extra recoil is taking the fun out of pulling your trigger...lol.

:)

Johnny Ringo
13th July 2010, 10:19 PM
Nice review - always enjoy reading the reports.

Some actions don't like full hollow points - I've found the Horandy Critical Defense ammo to be more accommodating to picky feeders.



Thanks for the recommendation. I had some Ranger T-Series (165 gr), supposedly a "less evil," civilianized version of the old Black Talon that I meant to take along, but forgot. Will try to get some of the HCD and try them both next time out.



Great review JR.

This DeSantis Nemesis (http://media.midwayusa.com/ProductImages/Large/115445.jpg) pocket holster will go a long way in allowing you to fully appreciate the SUMMER concealed carry of your Kahr. Fits perfect in the front pocket of a pair of cargo shorts. My Kahr P9 in 9mm kicks much less than your .40 cal. Common experience of Kahr owners all report that it is better to rack the first round using the thumb stop release. Obviously you will need to experiment to decide on the best ammo during the break-in period.

I'm not man enough for a .40 cal pistol as small as the Kahr. Maybe that extra recoil is taking the fun out of pulling your trigger...lol.

:)


Thanks for the holster recommendation. As I said, I tried to find one in 9mm, but wasn't patient enough to wait. Obviously, I'm not man enough for small .40 either. I guess shooting the XD 40 Sub-Compact fooled me into thinking so. Barely notice the recoil/muzzle flip with that, though it is a slightly beefier piece.

Yeah, I tried all those ways to rack that first round. The thumb stop release worked the first few mags, and then it was hit and miss after that. Happened with both the ball and the JHP ammo.

Now that it's had a good cleaning, I'll test it out again with some more ammo varieties and see what happens. It really is a nice carry gun - feels like a few .380s I've carried. And again, I'll check out your holster suggestion.

BTW, I bought one of those wife-beaters from Magill's - that will be my next review when I get time....

Book
13th July 2010, 10:48 PM
As I said, I tried to find one in 9mm, but wasn't patient enough to wait. Obviously, I'm not man enough for small .40 either. I guess shooting the XD 40 Sub-Compact fooled me into thinking so.



http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01369/Teeth_1369964c.jpg

Your Kahr is eight ounces lighter than the XD-40 and there is less to hold on to. A plastic hand cannon in .40 cal...lol. At some point you might conclude that trading it in for a 9mm is the only real solution. I know that I would be gritting my teeth and flinching before every pull of that trigger.

|--0--|

Half Sense
14th July 2010, 09:59 AM
I know that I would be gritting my teeth and flinching before every pull of that trigger.


I'm starting to believe that most of us carry too much firepower or carry it in too small a package. Shooting my .357 snubbie with full-house loads is like having an M80 go off in my hand. It's a rush at the range, but how effective would I be in a RL situation? I really think something with lower noise and recoil might be the better choice in many (or even most) occasions.

mightymanx
14th July 2010, 02:41 PM
Call me crazy bit I have not cared a bit if I "print" while carrying concealed. I generally file it as a deterant IE "hey that dude is packing I don't want to F@#$K with him." I am permitted so no problems from the law.

I carry a Glock 19 90% of the time anything larger is not particularly easy to carry and be able to draw for me (I am a small framed dude 5'7').

Like I said I might be crazy but I can't think of any down sides to people knowing I have a gun on me. I am not trying to flaunt it either that is what open carry is for. I am ok with getting the occasional sideways glance.

Book
14th July 2010, 02:55 PM
"hey that dude is packing I don't want to F@#$K with him."



http://www.patrolstore.com/images_large/5.11Tactical%20Shorts%20Men%27s%20Khaki.jpg

I also own a Glock G19 and in the summer it is not concealable in hot weather. In hot weather I prefer carrying my Kahr P9 in the front pocket of cargo shorts. Totally concealed yet instantly available. Instantly...while you must dig your Glock out from under uncomfortable hot clothing.

"hey that dude is packing let's call the cops."

OR:

"hey that dude got the drop on me and I didn't know he even HAD a gun".

:oo-->

mightymanx
14th July 2010, 03:21 PM
We will have to agree to disagree then.

I wear clothes like that all the time and small of the back or IWB with a t-shirt covering it. I also live in an open carry state so not too many people call cops for carrying a gun on them.

Black Blade
14th July 2010, 07:52 PM
Nice!!! You may just need a quick "fluff and buff" on the feed ramp to resolve the HP ammo ftf problem. I have done that to several guns over the years and it usually works. It's a quick fix to just polish the ramp and smooth out any possible burrs or bumps. That does not mean to grind the ramp of course but just a light sweep up and down the feed ramp.

http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/9be16e1daa2a1e379bc1d1f1e3d2a5e583df1e44.pjpg

In summer I have used Thunderwear/Smartcarry with subcompact guns while wearing cargo shorts around town. Now that summer is here and it's hot outside I have been carrying a P-64 in a IWB, Thunderwear or Nemesis pocket holster and an extra mag in a mag carrier. There are times when the Thunderwear is the best choice depending on where I am.

http://masterofconcealment.com/images/magick_cache/pgroup_4437_image_260_shadow.gif

Wear a large frame gun and soon wimmin are following you around... ;D

CrufflerJJ
15th July 2010, 07:33 AM
The salesman told me up front that a minimum 200 round break-in was recommended by Kahr. He also said that it wouldn't be much fun to shoot, and if I did the whole break-in during one session, I'd have a sore hand at the end of it due to the hard, roughly-checkered grips. And it would kick like a mule. He was right on those points.


I hope you enjoy your Kahr. I've got a PM9 that works well for me. It also had a few hiccups during the break-in period, but after that, it's been running well (as I'd expect). It is NOT very tolerant of dirt/grime. After a couple hundred rounds without a good cleaning, I'll start to get failures to go into battery. A quick cleaning and it's all good.

NOTE that Kahr's polymer frame pistols have something of a reputation for either being great, or being total kaka. If you Google about Kahr pistol problems, you'll read plenty of stories about people having reliability problems with their Kahr, even after sending the pistol back to Kahr 2-3 times for repair. This is a shame, since they do make nice small pistols.

As to your sore hand & the pistol's "roughly-checkered grips", I used something called Agrip on my PM9 and recommend it. See:

http://www.brookstactical.com/

It feels almost like suede in your grip (but is apparently made from some sort of flame/cut resistant aramid fiber). I also have the stuff on some of my Glock pistols.

Book
15th July 2010, 09:54 AM
I've got a PM9 that works well for me. It also had a few hiccups during the break-in period, but after that, it's been running well (as I'd expect). It is NOT very tolerant of dirt/grime. After a couple hundred rounds without a good cleaning, I'll start to get failures to go into battery. A quick cleaning and it's all good.



Agreed. Black Blade offers some great advice about polishing the feed ramp if you scroll up in this thread. I used this stuff on my Kahr P9 and it took ten minutes.

http://images.drillspot.com/pimages/2943/294306_300.jpg

:)

SLV^GLD
15th July 2010, 11:42 AM
If buffing the feed ramp doesn't clear up the feed issues take a look at the opening size on the malfunctioning hollow points. You may find that the opening is the largest or, at least the outer diameter of the tip is the largest of the rounds you're shooting. If this is the case then note the largest sized opening or outer diameter of the next size down that works without fail and make sure the rounds you load this gun with fall within this tolerance.

I witnessed a friend with a rather nice 1911 learn this lesson. Certain hollow points would simply randomly jam and all others simply would not. Upon comparison we discovered that the jamming rounds all had hollow point opening larger than the flawless rounds.

Definitely buff the ramp first, though, as you do want the ability to feed whatever ammo you want through it.

Finally, I'd pass on a .40cal small, plastic frame gun, myself.

Book
15th July 2010, 11:49 AM
Wear a large frame gun and soon wimmin are following you around... ;D



http://masterofconcealment.com/images/magick_cache/pgroup_4437_image_260_shadow.gif

Just don't shoot off the reason those wimmin are following you around...lol.

:D

CrufflerJJ
15th July 2010, 12:10 PM
I've got a PM9 that works well for me. It also had a few hiccups during the break-in period, but after that, it's been running well (as I'd expect). It is NOT very tolerant of dirt/grime. After a couple hundred rounds without a good cleaning, I'll start to get failures to go into battery. A quick cleaning and it's all good.



Agreed. Black Blade offers some great advice about polishing the feed ramp if you scroll up in this thread. I used this stuff on my Kahr P9 and it took ten minutes.

http://images.drillspot.com/pimages/2943/294306_300.jpg

:)


Even before test firing my Kahr PM9, I'd polished the feed ramp (Dremel tool, felt bob, jeweler's rouge). My weapon's malfunctions weren't feed ramp stoppages. Early on, I had some failures to eject. When dirty, the weapon doesn't want to go fully into battery. Once broken in, it was reliable (yet still subject to malfunctions after firing 200+ rounds without cleaning).

My other issues with the PM9 were the nasty sharp edge on the rear surface of the slide release lever, and excessively pointy corners on the beavertail part of the grip. Mr. Dremel came to the rescue.

Book
15th July 2010, 12:20 PM
http://www.kahr.com/PA-1B/imgs/ar1004_3.jpg

Your Kahr PM9 has dual recoil springs and there were early reports of it being especially fussy. That is quite a short distance of slide travel under enormous spring pressure...lol.