Rust Discovered On Bank Of Russia Issued 999 Gold Coins

[JohnQPublic]

Rust Discovered On Bank Of Russia Issued 999 Gold Coins (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/rust-discovered-bank-russia-issued-999-gold-coins)
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 07/16/2010 18:32 -0700


Here's a head scratcher: as everyone knows from elementary chemistry courses, gold is the most inert metal in the world - it does not rust, nor corrode. Yet this is precisely what Russian commercial precious metal trading company, International Reserve Payment System, discovered on thousands of (allegedly) 999 gold coins "St George" (pictured insert) issued by the Central Russian Bank. The serendipitous discovery occurred after various clients of the company had requested that their gold be stored not in a safe, but in a far more secure place: "buried under an oak tree." As the website of IRPS president German Sterligoff notes: once buried, "the coins began to oxidize under the influence of moisture." And hence the headscratcher: nowhere in history (that we know of) does 999, and even 925 gold, oxidize, rust, stain, spot or form patinas, under any conditions. Furthermore, as IRPS discovered, Sberbank of Russia released an internal memorandum ordering the purchase of the defective coins with the spotted appearance. Sterligoff concludes: "It should be noted that the weight and density of the rusty coins coincide with the characteristics of gold that would be expected after after conventional testing methods would reveal. We think that the experts will be interesting to determine the nature of this phenomenon." So just how "real" is 999 gold after all, either in Russia or anywhere else?


http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/trichet/Rust%20Gold%20Russian%20Ruble.jpg

As a consequence of this discovery, IRPS decided to "rid itself of all stocks, bought up earlier from the Central Bank on behalf of investors. Investment coins "St. George The Conqueror", as well as other gold coins of the Bank of Russia, are now excluded from the company's operations until all circumstances in the case are determined." Additional, as disclosed in the interview below for Here and Now show on TVRainRu, the Russian Central Bank would buy back the coins at a price of 9,300 rubles, despite prevailing prices for the bullion at well over 10,000.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXURMfIq2rQ&feature=player_embedded

As Zero Hedge has pointed out previously, the Central Bank of Russia has been one of the biggest purchasers of gold in 2010, having bought gold every single month. It would be embarrassing if it were discovered that not only is the bank diluting the gold content once received with oxidizable materials, but subsequently passing it off for 999 proof precious metal.

And if this is happening in Russia, one wonder what trickery other Central Banks, with a far lower amount of gold in their vaults, resort to...

h/t Janis

[MNeagle]

Scary stuff indeed.

Does tungsten rust or oxidize?

[JohnQPublic]

Scary stuff indeed.

Does tungsten rust or oxidize?


It oxidizes, but at higher temps. I am not sure about impurities, etc. If the density is right, and it is not tungsten, I would check them with a Geiger counter!

[Quixote2]

Stainless steel will rust. It is caused by carbon steel tooling and a small quantity of iron transferred to the stainless steel while working it. Maybe the dies for the gold coins were steel.

[milehi]

Stainless steel will rust. It is caused by carbon steel tooling and a small quantity of iron transferred to the stainless steel while working it. Maybe the dies for the gold coins were steel.


I have a 1/2oz Panda with the same type of rust spots, only smaller. It's from the 80's and in a blister. I only noticed it when I bought a loop and was examining details one drunken night. I causualy asked the shop guy and got the same answer as this here, and if I had any doubt, I could cash or swap out. I still have it.

[Spectrism]

I wouldn't buy coins from China or Russia.

Elemental analysis would clear up those doubts real quick.

[SLV^GLD]

On another forum in the distant past I read an interesting article that explained how this occurs. Essentially, the rust spots only occur on the surface and are an unfortunate result of the minting process whereby the surface is contaminated with minute amounts of ferrous material. In contrast, I've never heard of these anomalies appearing on silver or any other precious metal coins. That article did have include a chemical method for removing the rust spots without damaging the coin.

[Saul Mine]

And hence the headscratcher: nowhere in history (that we know of) does 999, and even 925 gold, oxidize, rust, stain, spot or form patinas, under any conditions.

The author of that needs to do some more homework. Red spots are very common on Chinese coins and have been seen on coins from other places. They are usually found when the gold coins are produced in a mint where silver is also handled. This might be a contamination of some other metal.

[Liquid]

That article did have include a chemical method for removing the rust spots without damaging the coin.


SLV, do you have a link to that article? I have a krug with an unsightly rust spot. Since it's just bullion, I wouldn't mind trying to remove it.

[JohnQPublic]

Stainless steel will rust. It is caused by carbon steel tooling and a small quantity of iron transferred to the stainless steel while working it. Maybe the dies for the gold coins were steel.


Stainless steel is mostly iron. It is only the micrscopic oxide layer on the surface that protects it. Scratch or disturb that layer and you got rust. Gold itself is resistant to oxidation. Look to impurties.

[madfranks]

That article did have include a chemical method for removing the rust spots without damaging the coin.


SLV, do you have a link to that article? I have a krug with an unsightly rust spot. Since it's just bullion, I wouldn't mind trying to remove it.


http://www.taxfreegold.co.uk/redspotsongoldcoins.html

Red Spots on Gold Coins
"Red Spot" sounds like a plant disease you would hear about on a gardening programme, but apparently it is a phenomenon well known to all of the world's mints.

Is Red Spot Bad?
Quite honestly it's not something that we tend to think of as bad. We believe that the existence of detail, and lack or wear is more important than an amount of colour change, but we are all different, and an individual is entitled to dislike red spot appearing on his gold coins, and to reject coins, other than pure bullion coins, which exhibit evidence of red spot.

What Causes Red Spots
Red spot can occur on almost any gold coin, it certainly happens on 22 carat gold coins. We have never seen it on .999(9) fine gold coins, and presume it is virtually impossible for it to occur on fine gold.
From our knowledge of metallurgy, we can tell you that when gold is alloyed, usually with copper or copper and silver, the alloying is obviously done in the molten state, and then has to cool. During cooling, crystalisation occurs, the crystal forming around "seeds" which are molecules of the elemental metals. There is a slight tendency for the elements with the highest melting point to start to crystalise first, and this can lead to small localised areas with slightly higher or lower concentrations of the constituent elements. In ternary alloys (three elements) three pairs of binary (two elements) alloys can also form. These areas of variable alloy are usually of microscopic proportion, but can sometimes be large enough to be visually discernable.
Copper oxidises and forms other salts fairly readily whereas gold is almost completely inert, and silver lies in between, although it is fairly unreactive. This means that if some parts of the alloy are copper rich, and are exposed on the surface of the coin, then it is possible for these parts to exhibit toning or tarnishing. The red spots are areas with a higher copper content, and as copper is a red coloured metal, this shows itself in an area which is less yellow and more red than the rest of the coin. If this area subsequently tarnishes, it would almost certainly go towards a deeper red or brown colour. Whenever we have seen red spot, it has always been an area about the size of a pinhead, sometimes with more than one spot on a coin.

Is There A Cure For Red Spot?
Yes, red spot can be removed from coins. We do not recommend the collector or amateur to try this for themselves at home, at least not without taking a few precautions. If in any doubt, do not try. We disclaim any responsibility for accidents or other problems which may arise.

Method
Wear protective goggles, and work in a well ventilated space, with a supply of cold water. Ensure there is a handy supply of sodium bicarbonate (bicarbonate of soda). Place the coin in a shallow glass dish or saucer. Carefully pour some concentrated strong acid (nitric is probably best) onto the coin. Do not drop the coin into the acid. Ensure the coin is immersed in the acid, and leave it for some time, depending on ambient temperature, the strength of the acid, and the alloy. If you left the coin with the spotted side up, you should be able to see when the spotting has disappeared. The spots will usually disappear within an hour or two, but the coin will not normally come to any harm if left in the acid for a few days. If you leave coin in the acid, ensure that nobody else will accidentally find it and attempt to move or handle it. A locked poison cupboard or fume cupboard would be a sensible precaution.
When you think the red spots have disappeared, neutralise the acid by adding sodium bicarbonate either in powder or in solution very carefully. The care is needed to avoid splashing any of the acid. Normal advice is to add acid to solution for safety reasons, but this will risk your coin dropping and causing splashing. Be sure to add more than enough sodium bicarbonate, you will know when the acid is neutralised because the effervescence (fizzing) will stop. Before handling the coin, ensure that any acid on its underside had been neutralised. It will then be safe to dispose of the remaining liquid.
If you splash any acid, use plenty of the sodium bicarbonate to neutralise the spill.
Rinse and dry the coin carefully. When drying, avoid rubbing the coin, it should be dabbed dry, or blown dry using an air or steam blower. Drying the coin evenly without leaving any trace is probably the most difficult part of this whole process.

Why Does This Work?
The acid will react with the copper or copper-rich area and dissolve it. Normally this will not leave any noticeable trace on the coin, although it is theoretically possible that if the area was large, then this process could leave a depression on the coin's surface.
Although we do not clean coins often, we have used this process quite successfully on a number of occasions with complete success, this includes proof coins. From memory we have only used it on high carat gold, such as 22 carat (91.66% gold), or 900 fine (90% gold). There is no reason it should not work on lower carat golds. Fortunately most "real" coins are made of high carat gold, although some "cheap" collector's coins are made of 18, 14, 12, or even 9 carat gold alloys. There is some danger with lower carat gold alloys that the acid would attack the whole coin, so we suggest you test first on a non-valuable sample. Again it follows that most of the more valuable gold coins are made of high carat rather than low carat alloys.

Avoid Aqua Regia
Aqua regia is a mixture of hydrochloric and nitric acids, it is used to dissolve gold. Obviously do not use it to remove red spot as it will remove your coin as well.

[JohnQPublic]

Here are some real life examples- but I think the Russian coins (in the YouTube) were much worse than these. It sounds like bad refining.

https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?t=57185&highlight=spots+maples

https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?t=59769&highlight=spots+maples

[Saul Mine]

http://www.taxfreegold.co.uk/redspotsongoldcoins.html The chemical method.
All recorded knowledge (https://google.com/#hl=en&q=red+spots+on+gold+coins)

[JohnQPublic]

http://www.taxfreegold.co.uk/redspotsongoldcoins.html The chemical method.
All recorded knowledge (https://google.com/#hl=en&q=red+spots+on+gold+coins)


"...What Causes Red Spots
Red spot can occur on almost any gold coin, it certainly happens on 22 carat gold coins. We have never seen it on .999(9) fine gold coins, and presume it is virtually impossible for it to occur on fine gold. "

[Grand Master Melon]

I'm just happy I never bought any russian gold and only have a couple of silver coins. They're not even 999, just 900. They're cool looking though.