PDA

View Full Version : Escaping Obama-care - For Real



gunDriller
18th July 2010, 07:28 AM
In 1 year & 5 1/2 months, the IRS will have the alleged right to breathe down your neck like never before.

The 2 taxes that concern me are -
1. Individual Mandate - let's say you don't have health insurance and use a "pay as you go" (cash on the barrelhead) approach to health care. i.e. you live healthy and you avoid doctors. My understanding is that in 2016, they will have a minimum tax penalty of $695 for people who choose to stay out of Obama-care by not paying a monthly extortion premium to a "health insurance" organization. Even if they have no income & are living off savings.
2. The 1099 $600 2012 law. We've talked about this one.

Of course, there's also the FBAR (foreign bank account reporting) rule, which may not apply to G-S.us'ers because most of you are too smart to have foreign bank accounts. This law has existed for a long time; they started enforcing it July 1, 2010 with a $500,000 penalty for not reporting accounts as small as $10,000 - even if you declared the interest income on your 1040.

Long story short - I'm scared of the US government.

Maybe that sounds wimpy, but it's true. They claim the ability to come into your life & seize your possessions virtually at will (IRS agents have considerable discretion over who to audit ... remember Joe Stack). That claim is backed by SWAT teams and other tax agents with guns who have no functional memory of concept of "No Taxation Without Representation."


I can think of a number of approaches to avoiding these assholes -
1. Move from the last known address the IRS has, to either a rented property or a property that you own that is shielded somehow from property records (so your name is not in the property records & they can't find you).
2. Move to a state that has initiated an "anti-Obama-care" provision - e.g. Texas.
3. Leave the country, which obviously leaves a HUGE question - to go to which country, and what are their extradition rules if the IRS decides you owe them some money ? And how do you get your valuable possessions out of the US - besides, "very carefully" ?
4. Just pay the taxes & file the forms.
5. Claim the "Amish" or "Christian Scientist" exemption to Obama-care. I have read some articles about the law that state that an exemption will be granted to certain religions. However, I have a feeling they will require more than your statement on the tax form - or everybody would do it.
6. Don't worry about it, vote against every Democrat that voted for Obama-care in the 2012 election, and make it crystal clear to the resulting Republican majority that their mandate is to repeal Obama-care. Since they won't have the 2/3 majority necessary to over-ride a presidential veto, the one option they do have is to withhold funding for it.

I have a sense that a lot of G-S.us'ers will go the approach of keeping a low profile, which I think is generally a good idea, but certain details become very important - e.g., does the IRS have your home address, and what will you do if they visit you, claiming that you owe them penalties & back taxes ?

The response, "greet them with a wall of lead" has some romantic appeal, but it seems like a "go down swinging" form of suicide. I can't see that it is practical.


In general, the US government seems to have the idea that it is our job to pay for their failures (e.g. their failure to indict the banksters whose fraud caused the credit crisis), and for their Israel-appeasement programs (e.g., War on Terror).

So - how do I keep Uncle Sam out of my life ?

I am me, I am free
18th July 2010, 07:33 AM
Move from the last known address the IRS has, to either a rented property or a property that you own that is shielded somehow from property records (so your name is not in the property records & they can't find you).

So long as you're on the grid the Individuals Representing Satan will find you (via the utility records). They've been doing this over 20 years. I know this to be a fact from personal experience (3 times).

cortez
18th July 2010, 07:39 AM
not wimpy to fear the govt. Randy weaver and the such probablly didnt fear the govt. all those poor souls who took on the IRS etc. they have the resources to kick your F*#kin teeth in and they will. best to lay low and hope a large uprising comes about that we can join when the time is right.

Plastic
18th July 2010, 07:50 AM
I am not worried about the extortion tax of 2016 as there is a very high probability that this nation will not exist at that time, or if it does that 695 fiat dollars will be the equivilent of a pack of smokes.

cedarchopper
18th July 2010, 07:55 AM
Religion is a kind of protection...I kind of like faith healing, I wonder what kind of documentation you need to prove you are "Christian Scientist"? :boohoo

cortez
18th July 2010, 07:58 AM
any religous objection will do. i'm a buddhist and i plan to object.

Plastic
18th July 2010, 08:07 AM
I'll be objecting too Cortez, if they have to have their phoney money from me they can sieze it but I won't give it willingly.

gunDriller
18th July 2010, 08:34 AM
Move from the last known address the IRS has, to either a rented property or a property that you own that is shielded somehow from property records (so your name is not in the property records & they can't find you).

So long as you're on the grid the Individuals Representing Satan will find you (via the utility records). They've been doing this over 20 years. I know this to be a fact from personal experience (3 times).


Thanks for the Replies !

so then, if you were DUMB enough to tell them your home address, as I did in my last tax return (instead of using the PO box I used in previous tax returns), basically you need to move - or be prepared to make the extortion payment to Individuals Representing Satan/ Israeli Revenue Service.

& when you do move, you need to avoid the use of conventional utility (gas & electric, and telephone), and find work-arounds -
1. for utility stuff - solar panels, generators, low-power electronics, solar ovens for cooking.
2. for telephone access - anonymous cell-phones. Along these lines, I bought a Motorola Trakfone; it sucks, even in Sonoma County (it has the minutes, but can't get a signal, which makes it useless.)
3. for Internet/ social access - poaching wireless Internet, or working something out with a trust-worthy neighbor to be able to log into their network ... or CB radio ... or living without.

I guess I believed that stuff about America being a democracy when I was younger.

The way it looks now ... America is a good place if you are one of the Chosen People - which I am not.

I have to say I admire Sweden. They have demonstrated considerable willingness to stand up to Israel. They are preparing for real to live without oil, as Brazil did in the 1970's (Brazil switched to ethanol). They are socialist, but I am wondering if they are less socialist than the US is growing to be.

I am not looking for a perfect place today - I am looking for a live-able place for the future.

I think a lot of the answer for expatriation depends on private property laws & conditions. Getting your possessions out of the US is one thing ... getting it past the customs people is another thing ... not having it stolen by your neighbors (e.g. South Africa) is another valid concern.

I guess one approach is to
1. prepare now for a possible move (which means throwing away a lot of stuff & giving a lot of stuff to the Salvation Army), and
2. seeing what happens in 3 1/2 months (November elections), and
3. making a big long list of "expat options", both within the US and outside the US.

As far as expat options outside the US, I guess part of the trick is to find out what other American expats went through - which may be very different from what any government says.

One of the factors is the US border tax on PM's, a tax on "un-realized gains". e.g., if gold is $1200 an ounce, and you don't have a receipt that shows you bought it at, for example $1000, then you are taxed 28% x $1200 = $336. If you had the receipt and they believe it, then the tax on un-realized gains is 28% x $200 = $56.

Long story short, if you are trying to expat and take your PM's with you, you had better be prepared to deal with that situation.

It also means that there are timing issues. Theoretically, the tax on un-realized gains is lower when gold & silver prices are lower. So the decision about time to cross the border may actually be influenced by Kitco prices. Wierd.


Again, I'm not saying I have any "best answers" - I just see a major collision coming and am wondering how I am going to do, like in Aikido, get out of the way.

Interesting ... it was Bush-Cheney that inspired my initial interest in expat'ing, but it's Obama-Pelosi that are making it more real.



I am not worried about the extortion tax of 2016 as there is a very high probability that this nation will not exist at that time, or if it does that 695 fiat dollars will be the equivilent of a pack of smokes.

That's a good point - if I can take care of the requirement by selling one 10 ounce silver bar, for example, that may be the lowest cost solution.

I think the US will continue to pretend that it is existing - and that it has legal authority - for quite some time.

I think a very real argument can be made that the US government stopped existing on 9-11. The problem is, as the economy deteriorates, the incentive for the US to go into "Continuity of Government" (CoG) mode increases.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuity_of_government

The scenario you describe, where the "nation will not exist at that time", is the scenario where CoG operations are in effect. The CoG-laws are even more draconian than Obama-care. CoG basically means martial law, and that US government employees claim the right to seize assets at will - to fund continuing operations of the so-called US government.

I wonder if one functional approach is to apply to work for FEMA - who is heavily involved in implementing CoG. That would make me an insider - which puts me in a position to do the right thing at the right time - e.g., mutiny, if it became apparent that the US government was holding people against their will - or vaccinating people against their will.

Bullfrog
18th July 2010, 10:56 AM
You might be able to avoid being found, by people that you don't want to find you, if you buy an RV. Move a lot, stay in the RV camps. use their utilities for elec and water. Propane for heat and cooking. You wouldn't be able to have a bank account tho, because it would be found.

cedarchopper
18th July 2010, 11:21 AM
You might be able to avoid being found, by people that you don't want to find you, if you buy an RV. Move a lot, stay in the RV camps. use their utilities for elec and water. Propane for heat and cooking. You wouldn't be able to have a bank account tho, because it would be found.



RVing requires quite a bit of cash. I've got one and they are hungry beasts...tires, maintenance, fuel, repairs...it's all pretty constant. And that is not counting purchasing, depreciation, registration, inspections, insurance, roadside service policies, and on and on. I would not consider traveling without all of the legal requirements in order because you will not get far, and that isn't going to change for the better in the future.

Having said all of that, one of the reasons, besides recreation, that I have it is for emergencies or natural disasters.

gunDriller
18th July 2010, 12:38 PM
I would have to say that having a state government that is fervently litigating against Obama-care would give me considerable comfort.

I wonder if Texas, who I know is one such state, has taken on the whole thing - which means stopping the 2012 1099 $600 tax would happen, and the Individual Mandate (extortion) tax, in 2016.

Just living somewhere in the US that says "no" to the 2012 1099 $600 would be REALLY GREAT
;D

Then I would have the next 4 years to deal with the 2016 extortion tax.

Anybody know what states are serious about stopping Obama-care ?