It's the End of the World As We Know It - Social Security, the Economy, Etc.

[Phoenix]

http://www.philstockworld.com/2010/07/17/its-the-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it/


It’s the End of the World As We Know It

What are 308,367,109 Americans supposed to do?

First of all, despite clamping down on immigration, our population grew by 2.6M people last year. Unfortunately, not only did we not create jobs for those 2.6M new people but we lost about 4M jobs so what are these new people going to do? Not only that, but nobody is talking about the another major job issue: People aren’t retiring! They can’t afford to because the economy is bad - that means there are even less job openings… The pimply-faced kid can’t get a job delivering pizza because his grandpa’s doing it.

There are some brilliant pundits who believe cutting retirement benefits will fix our economy. How will that work exactly? Pay old people less money, don’t cover their medical care and what happens? Then they need money. If they need money, they need to work and if they need to work they increase the supply of labor, which reduces wages and leaves all 308,367,109 of us with less money. Oh sorry, not ALL 308,367,109 - just 308,337,109 - the top 30,000 (0.01%) own the business the other 308,337,109 work at and they will be raking it in because labor is roughly 1/3 of the cost of doing business in America and our great and powerful capitalists have already cut their manufacturing costs by shipping all those jobs overseas, where they pay as little as $1 a day for a human life so now, in order to increase their profits (because profits MUST be increased) they have now turned inward to see what they can shave off in America.

How does one decrease the cost of labor in America? Well first, you have to bust the unions. Check. Then you have to create a pressing need for people to work - perhaps give them easy access to credit and then get them to go so deeply into debt that they will have to work until they die to pay them off. Check. It also helps if you push up the cost of living by manipulating commodity prices. Check. Then, take away people’s retirement savings. Check. Lower interest rates to make savings futile and interest income inadequate. Check. And finally, threaten to take away the 12% a year that people have been saving for retirement by labeling Social Security an "entitlement" program - as if it wasn’t money Americans worked their whole lives to save and gave to the government in good faith. Check.

As Allen Smith says: "Ronald Reagan and Alan Greenspan pulled off one of the greatest frauds ever perpetrated against the American people in the history of this great nation, and the underlying scam is still alive and well, more than a quarter century later. It represents the very foundation upon which the economic malpractice that led the nation to the great economic collapse of 2008 was built. Essentially, Reagan switched the federal government from what he critically called, a “tax and spend” policy, to a “borrow and spend” policy, where the government continued its heavy spending, but used borrowed money instead of tax revenue to pay the bills. The results were catastrophic. Although it had taken the United States more than 200 years to accumulate the first $1 trillion of national debt, it took only five years under Reagan to add the second one trillion dollars to the debt. By the end of the 12 years of the Reagan-Bush administrations, the national debt had quadrupled to $4 trillion!"

Both Reagan and Greenspan saw big government as an evil, and they saw big business as a virtue. They both had despised the progressive policies of Roosevelt, Kennedy and Johnson, and they wanted to turn back the pages of time. They came up with the perfect strategy for the redistribution of income and wealth from the working class to the rich. If Reagan had campaigned for the presidency by promising big tax cuts for the rich and pledging to make up for the lost revenue by imposing substantial tax increases on the working class, he would probably not have been elected. But that is exactly what Reagan did, with the help of Alan Greenspan. Consider the following sequence of events:

1) President Reagan appointed Greenspan as chairman of the 1982 National Commission on Social Security Reform (aka The Greenspan Commission)

2) The Greenspan Commission recommended a major payroll tax hike to generate Social Security surpluses for the next 30 years, in order to build up a large reserve in the trust fund that could be drawn down during the years after Social Security began running deficits.

3) The 1983 Social Security amendments enacted hefty increases in the payroll tax in order to generate large future surpluses.

4) As soon as the first surpluses began to role in, in 1985, the money was put into the general revenue fund and spent on other government programs. None of the surplus was saved or invested in anything. The surplus Social Security revenue, that was paid by working Americans, was used to replace the lost revenue from Reagan’s big income tax cuts that went primarily to the rich.

5) In 1987, President Reagan nominated Greenspan as the successor to Paul Volker as chairman of the Federal Reserve Board. Greenspan continued as Fed Chairman until January 31, 2006. (One can only speculate on whether the coveted Fed Chairmanship represented, at least in part, a payback for Greenspan’s role in initiating the Social Security surplus revenue.)

6) In 1990, Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan of New York, a member of the Greenspan Commission, and one of the strongest advocates the the 1983 legislation, became outraged when he learned that first Reagan, and then President George H.W. Bush used the surplus Social Security revenue to pay for other government programs instead of saving and investing it for the baby boomers. Moynihan locked horns with President Bush and proposed repealing the 1983 payroll tax hike. Moynihan’s view was that if the government could not keep its hands out of the Social Security cookie jar, the cookie jar should be emptied, so there would be no surplus Social Security revenue for the government to loot. President Bush would have no part of repealing the payroll tax hike. The “read-my-lips-no-new-taxes” president was not about to give up his huge slush fund.

The practice of using every dollar of the surplus Social Security revenue for general government spending continues to this day. The 1983 payroll tax hike has generated approximately $2.5 trillion in surplus Social Security revenue which is supposed to be in the trust fund for use in paying for the retirement benefits of the baby boomers. But the trust fund is empty! It contains no real assets. As a result, the government will soon be unable to pay full benefits without a tax increase. Money can be spent or it can be saved. But you can’t do both. Absolutely none of the $2.5 trillion was saved or invested in anything.

That is how the largest theft in the history of the world was carried out. 300M people worked and saved their whole lives to set aside $2.5Tn into a retirement system that, if it were paying a fair compounding rate of 5% interest over 40 years of labor (assuming an even $62Bn a year was contributed), would be worth $8.4Tn today - enough money to give 100M workers $84,000 each in cash! The looting of FICA hid the massive deficits of the last 30 years in the Unified Budget. Presidents and Congresses were able to reduce taxes on the wealthiest Americans without complaint from the deficit hawks, because they benefited. The money went directly from the pockets of average Americans into the pockets of the rich.

Now that it is time to repay those special bonds in the Trust Fund, we are inundated in opinion pieces in the leading newspapers and magazines complaining about Social Security and its horrible impact on the budget. Government finances have been trashed by foolish tax cuts, unpaid wars, tax loopholes for corporations and the very wealthy, the failures of economists, the greedy search for greater returns in financial markets and the collapse of moral values in giant businesses but Social Security is supposed to be the problem that needs fixing…

Social Security is not "broken" - the money is in the Trust Fund. But the people who manage the finances of the United States don’t want to repay the bonds held by the Trust Fund. They want to default selectively against average people, their fellow citizens, who paid their taxes expecting to be protected in their retirement. Refusing to repay the $2.54 trillion dollars in bonds held by the Social Security Trust makes the US look like Greece, just another nation unable to govern itself coherently. The people who manage US finances come from the financial elites, the best that Wall Street and enormous corporations have to offer. Selective default exposes them as charlatans. The claims of the economics profession to expertise are puffery. Their theories about the benefits of tax cuts are proven false. Their mathematical proofs about free markets collapse in the real world.

So, what is this all about? It’s about forcing 5M people a year who reach the age 65 to remain in the work-force. The top 0.01% have already taken your money, they have already put you in debt, they have already bankrupted the government as well so it has no choice but to do their bidding. Now the top 0.01% want to make even MORE profits by paying American workers even LESS money. If they raise the retirement age to 70 to "balance" Social Security - that will guarantee that another 25M people remain in the workforce (less the ones that drop dead on the job - saving the bother of paying them severance).

What’s next? Is it fair to say that children can’t work in a struggling family business? Isn’t it to everybody’s benefit that kids should be allowed to help out at the family store? That will be the next step towards turning America into a 3rd World country. The seemingly innocent concept of "letting" kids work will deprive another 5M people of paying jobs - throwing them out into the labor force as well and driving labor costs down even further.

There’s an expression that goes "give them an inch and they’ll take a yard." The top 0.01% of this country have taken their inches and they are foreclosing on the yards and they will come for the rest of your stuff next. If you think you are "safe" from the looting of America, it is only because they haven’t gotten around to you yet. As I explained in "America is 234 Years Old Today - Is It Finished?" - the game is rigged very much like a poker tournament. The people at the top table don’t care how well you do wiping out your fellow players at the lower tables, they know they will get you eventually and your efforts to scoop up a pile of cash for yourself simply makes their job easier when they are ready to take it from you.

The average American is $634,000 in debt thanks to the efforts that Reagan and Greenspan put in motion 30 years ago and the richer you are, the more of that money is going to come out of your hide eventually and the more you lobby to make sure that the "rich" are not taxed unfairly, the less fair it will be to you because, no matter how rich you THINK you are, unless your income is measured in MILLIONS PER MONTH, you aren’t even close to the top 30,000.

No progressive tax? That means that people and corporations who make $1M PER DAY should pay no more tax than a person making $1M per year, right? Well that means that the $2.5M debt that your family of four owes will be paid by you over 2.5 years of labor while the $2.5M owed by your Billionaire competitor will be paid over a long weekend, after which he can turn his attention back to crushing your business by creating cheaper goods - maintaining profit margins by driving down local labor costs and outsourcing the rest.

It’s a new world, America, and you’d better get used to it - we were sold down the river on a slow boat to China long ago and we’re only just beginning to feel the first effects of waves that wash back to our own shores. The people who own the media don’t want CHANGE. That’s why you never hear this stuff in the MSM - things are going exactly according to plan and the old money crowd is playing a long, patient game and they already have most of the chips - the last thing they want is people questioning the system…

[Ponce]

Cut off the head of the snake and you can then start to work on something.

[Ares]

Ronald Reagan and Alan Greenspan pulled off one of the greatest frauds ever perpetrated against the American people in the history of this great nation, and the underlying scam is still alive and well, more than a quarter century later.

This guy is so full of sh*t I can smell it from here.

Wrong, the person who pulled off one of the greatest frauds ever perpetrated against the American people in the history of this great nation was FDR.


Now that it is time to repay those special bonds in the Trust Fund, we are inundated in opinion pieces in the leading newspapers and magazines complaining about Social Security and its horrible impact on the budget.

TRUST FUND?? Are you F**KING kidding me? This guy actually believes there is a trust fund?


Social Security is not "broken" - the money is in the Trust Fund.

This moron is hopelessly delusional

[mamboni]

Ronald Reagan and Alan Greenspan pulled off one of the greatest frauds ever perpetrated against the American people in the history of this great nation, and the underlying scam is still alive and well, more than a quarter century later.

This guy is so full of sh*t I can smell it from here.

Wrong, the person who pulled off one of the greatest frauds ever perpetrated against the American people in the history of this great nation was FDR.


Now that it is time to repay those special bonds in the Trust Fund, we are inundated in opinion pieces in the leading newspapers and magazines complaining about Social Security and its horrible impact on the budget.

TRUST FUND?? Are you F**KING kidding me? This guy actually believes there is a trust fund?


Social Security is not "broken" - the money is in the Trust Fund.

This moron is hopelessly delusional


With respect, I think you are missing the big picture being presented here. I think the author is correct overall and to quibble over minor details and semantics doesn't change the basic truth of his argument. The entire essya could be summarized by one statement: "The top sucks from the bottom."

[MNeagle]

4) As soon as the first surpluses began to role in, in 1985

That's where I stopped. Come on, English 101.

[jaybone]

IF I understand it correctly, there IS a trust fund, but it holds little or no assets.
The trust fund consists of IOU's from the congress/treasury.
Since the bonds have the "full faith and credit of the USA" backing them, they are considered to be cash equivalents.

What is the saying?
If you owe the bank $1000 it's your problem, if you owe them $100,000,000,000,000 it's their problem.
Well, due to the sheer size of the IOU pile, the debt is junk, cannot and will not be repaid.
Just a matter of time before SS is turned into another welfare program and most of the recipients are cut off.

[Ares]

With respect, I think you are missing the big picture being presented here. I think the author is correct overall and to quibble over minor details and semantics doesn't change the basic truth of his argument. The entire essya could be summarized by one statement: "The top sucks from the bottom."

Not at all, I took it to mean that Social Slavery would be fine if the Government followed through on it's obligation and lays the blame at Reagan and Bush. Not that I'm a fan of either of them, it strikes me as a partisan hit piece instead of a inept and incompetent government that has no business securing peoples retirement.

[mamboni]

IF I understand it correctly, there IS a trust fund, but it holds little or no assets.
The trust fund consists of IOU's from the congress/treasury.
Since the bonds have the "full faith and credit of the USA" backing them, they are considered to be cash equivalents.

What is the saying?
If you owe the bank $1000 it's your problem, if you owe them $100,000,000,000,000 it's their problem.
Well, due to the sheer size of the IOU pile, the debt is junk, cannot and will not be repaid.
Just a matter of time before SS is turned into another welfare program and most of the recipients are cut off.


Isn't it ironic that SSI holds US Treasuries, supposedly the most secure investment in the world, and people say the fund is empty? Well, government finances are a giant Ponzi built entirely on cash flow and the continuing ability to role over debt. The SSI Treasuries are problematic becuase they must be rolled over and put a great strain on the Treasury auctions. In addition, government has lost SSI tax revenues as a source of net cash flow.

But, in isolation, a person who invested a trust fund surplus in US Treasuries arguably made a prudent and responsible investment. But the SSI Treasuries fandango is a perfect example of why government should not be allowed to be it's own underwriter: it invites an incestuous and corrupt mode of accounting that guarantees that the beneficiaries (i.e. you and me) will be defrauded, through some combination of default and inflation.

[iOWNme]

Ahh yes it must be Reagans fault....or no Greenspan's fault! Yeah that sounds good....

As long as you dont look at the cancer, you can chase the symptoms all day long.

Without the Federal Reserve there would be no Social Security, and there would be no Allan Greenspan either.

Federal Reserve = Central Bank = COMMUNIST MANIFESTO

Social Security = NATIONAL SOCIALISM



There are your problems right there.....

[Book]

With respect, I think you are missing the big picture being presented here.



http://www.oldog.co.uk/images/Grandchildren%20and%20Grandparents%201992ish_800.j pg

You all are. Social Security and the National Debt need new suckers and Whitey failed to have enough grandchildren to keep these ponzi schemes going:

http://i2.squidoocdn.com/resize/squidoo_images/250/draft_lens1347683module8238589photo_1247664398Twoi sEnoughbook_cover_smaller.jpg

:oo-->

SIMPLE DEMOGRAPHICS

[mamboni]

With respect, I think you are missing the big picture being presented here.



http://www.oldog.co.uk/images/Grandchildren%20and%20Grandparents%201992ish_800.j pg

You all are. Social Security and the National Debt need new suckers and Whitey failed to have enough grandchildren to keep these ponzi schemes going:

http://i2.squidoocdn.com/resize/squidoo_images/250/draft_lens1347683module8238589photo_1247664398Twoi sEnoughbook_cover_smaller.jpg

:oo-->

SIMPLE DEMOGRAPHICS


I didn't care for that book BOOK!!!

[Horn]

Ronald Reagan and Alan Greenspan pulled off one of the greatest frauds ever perpetrated against the American people in the history of this great nation, and the underlying scam is still alive and well, more than a quarter century later.

This guy is so full of sh*t I can smell it from here.

Wrong, the person who pulled off one of the greatest frauds ever perpetrated against the American people in the history of this great nation was FDR.


Now that it is time to repay those special bonds in the Trust Fund, we are inundated in opinion pieces in the leading newspapers and magazines complaining about Social Security and its horrible impact on the budget.

TRUST FUND?? Are you F**KING kidding me? This guy actually believes there is a trust fund?


Social Security is not "broken" - the money is in the Trust Fund.

This moron is hopelessly delusional


With respect, I think you are missing the big picture being presented here. I think the author is correct overall and to quibble over minor details and semantics doesn't change the basic truth of his argument. The entire essya could be summarized by one statement: "The top sucks from the bottom."


If it weren't for quibble there'd be no GSUS, I come here for the quibble. ;)

Is it a shame that's all the welfare recipients will be left with?

[Saul Mine]

The whole problem is that the leaders who manage our economy are inept in leadership and uneducated in economics. I mean besides their basic problems with honesty.

[7th trump]

The whole problem is that the leaders who manage our economy are inept in leadership and uneducated in economics. I mean besides their basic problems with honesty.

OH NO.........they are quite schooled in economics....................leadership! Yes they are a ferocious army that is not out of step in destruction.

[Horn]

The whole problem is that the leaders who manage our economy are inept in leadership and uneducated in economics. I mean besides their basic problems with honesty.


If this is the case, and with leadership position of the U.S. on the globe, we can only presume there will be socially mutaneous forms of governance in the days ahead.

[Phoenix]

TRUST FUND?? Are you F**KING kidding me? This guy actually believes there is a trust fund?


There IS a trust fund. It's spilling over the brim with WORTHLESS US GOVERNMENT PROMISES (IOUs).

[iOWNme]

TRUST FUND?? Are you F**KING kidding me? This guy actually believes there is a trust fund?


There IS a trust fund. It's spilling over the brim with WORTHLESS US GOVERNMENT PROMISES (IOUs).


Can you please find the Social Security 'Trust Fund' you speak of in the US Code?

Can you please show me the Law which states that SS is a Trust Fund?

Any Trust fund of the US Government, must be listed in the organizational chart of each Government agency, in this case the Dept of Treasury, under Title 31 - Money & Finance in the USC.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode31/usc_sec_31_00001321----000-.html

There is no trust Fund listed as Social Security. Although there are 2 different Trust Funds listed as:

- (2) Philippine special fund (internal revenue)
- (62) Puerto Rico special fund (Internal Revenue).

Notice the upper/lower case difference.

[iOWNme]

Phoenix.....

You used Capitalism as a tag for your Socialist Security thread.... LMAO!!!! You crack me up.

[Phoenix]

Phoenix.....

You used Capitalism as a tag for your Socialist Security thread.... LMAO!!!! You crack me up.


The Crapitalist Military-Industrial Complex's "600 ship Navy" and other ultra-extravagant military expenditures under Reagan is where the SS money went.

[Dave Thomas]

Don't brown folks pay taxes too?

[dysgenic]

I liked the article, too. I don't think it's fair to say that just because FDR instituted this corrupt system, that it automatically abrogates the responsibility of other presidents that exacerbated its negative effects.
The article made a good point concerning the propaganda out there that tries to portray social security as an entitlement program. It's not. It's a forced insurace program. See UI, Obamacare, et al. The bad guys intentionally use the same term to mean completely different things (welfare, disability, etc).

dys

[jetgraphics]

The article in the original post is disinformation. That is to say, half-truths, lies, deceptions, and misrepresentation of facts.

1. Since 1933, there have been no dollars in circulation. No one has "paid debt" pursuant to the USCON, since 1933. Everyone is presumed to be a bankrupt (i.e., "debtor") under Federal protection.

2. Since 1935, and the institution of national socialism (FICA / Social Security), the U.S.A. has been a socialist nation. That it wasn't fully implemented was so that the sheeple wouldn't balk at the gradual shearing.

3. The "dollar bill" is not a dollar, but a note, a promise to pay face value in lawful money - IN THE FUTURE. It was never "backed" by species. And since 1933, Congress will not redeem those notes with lawful money. They have no par value, by law. (Thus they are not FIAT).

4. For over 3 generations, Americans have lived under a perpetual "temporary" State of Emergency, without the protections of law normally afforded to owners of private property, domiciled within the boundaries of these united States of America.

TEOTWAWKI is happening, it is true. But few are fully aware of all of the aspects.
The small part I monitor is in relation to the evolution of the United Socialist States of America into the People's Democratic Socialist Republic of America. FDR and his cronies "killed" the U.S.A., in 1933.

[FunnyMoney]

The soap opera details continue. The matrix is full of twisting and turning. Is there to be a trust fund or is there not to be? Did the empire's decline begin with the 80s creation of military stealth agendas and debt monsters? Or was it the final gun shot to the back of gold in the 70s? Or was it Wilson? He did admit to destroying his nation - at least one of the culprits was willing to admit their crimes.

You will be hard pressed to find in history examples where the top did not suck off from the bottom. The matrix is setup like a pyramid, one with the top disjoint and above the rest. Certainly you saw the picture of it on your money. The world uses their money, centralized power and centralized money ensure absolute power and absolute corruption.

Few get beyond the matrix. While the author of the OP touches the right nerves, there is also confusion in the rant. Symptoms slip in. And while some are spoken, many root causes were skipped over. But I liked reading it, thanks for posting it. Watching the masses circle around the truth, their pain and effort to get outside the matrix is like an individual evolving plot. In the end, too few will get far enough beyond the reach of the matrix. It's not going to be TEOTWAWKI to those of us already outside. We know that history has shown the matrix simply evolves, an end to it is not in the cards.

[Phoenix]

The article in the original post is disinformation. That is to say, half-truths, lies, deceptions, and misrepresentation of facts.


Almost everything you write is disinformation.




1. Since 1933, there have been no dollars in circulation.


Wrong...

http://usrarecurrency.com/WebPgFl/A51298086A/1963$5UnitedStatesNoteSnA51298086A.jpg




2. Since 1935, and the institution of national socialism


Hitler was elected President? In 1935?

[Ares]

The article in the original post is disinformation. That is to say, half-truths, lies, deceptions, and misrepresentation of facts.


Almost everything you write is disinformation.




1. Since 1933, there have been no dollars in circulation.


Wrong...

http://usrarecurrency.com/WebPgFl/A51298086A/1963$5UnitedStatesNoteSnA51298086A.jpg




2. Since 1935, and the institution of national socialism


Hitler was elected President? In 1935?





Hitler might as well of been elected, FDR was no better. Maybe he didn't kill the Japanese he kidnapped but we certainly had concentration camps.

As for the money, why don't you take that 5 dollar bill and exchange it for lawful money? Let us know how that works out for you. ;D

[iOWNme]

Almost everything you write is disinformation.

Do you dare to come with any facts?




Wrong...

http://usrarecurrency.com/WebPgFl/A51298086A/1963$5UnitedStatesNoteSnA51298086A.jpg



Just because you may come across a US Dollar, does not mean it is a Dollar by Law. Do you know the definition of a Dollar in Law?




Hitler was elected President? In 1935?



So this statement means that unless Hitler comes back National Socialism is dead?

[iOWNme]

3. The "dollar bill" is not a dollar, but a note, a promise to pay face value in lawful money - IN THE FUTURE. It was never "backed" by species. And since 1933, Congress will not redeem those notes with lawful money. They have no par value, by law. (Thus they are not FIAT).



Isnt that the very definition of Fiat?

[Phoenix]

Hitler might as well of been elected, FDR was no better.


Hitler = German, for Germans

FDR = Jewish, for Jews




As for the money, why don't you take that 5 dollar bill and exchange it for lawful money? Let us know how that works out for you. ;D


Why don't you cite the current United States Code defining "lawful money"?

[Phoenix]

Just because you may come across a US Dollar, does not mean it is a Dollar by Law. Do you know the definition of a Dollar in Law?


Do you? Please cite the current United States Code defining a "dollar" and/or "lawful money."




So this statement means that unless Hitler comes back National Socialism is dead?


National Socialism = anti-Jewish, pro-German (or pro-native) socio-economic system

International (Jewish) socialism = pro-Jewish, anti-Goyim socio-economic system

America has not a pro-American system for well over 150 years.

I grow very tired of Viera's outright lies.

[DMac]

With respect, I think you are missing the big picture being presented here.




http://www.oldog.co.uk/images/Grandchildren%20and%20Grandparents%201992ish_800.j pg

You all are. Social Security and the National Debt need new suckers and Whitey failed to have enough grandchildren to keep these ponzi schemes going:

http://i2.squidoocdn.com/resize/squidoo_images/250/draft_lens1347683module8238589photo_1247664398Twoi sEnoughbook_cover_smaller.jpg

:oo-->

SIMPLE DEMOGRAPHICS




I see your book and raise you 2 magazines:

http://img.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/2010/1101100719_400.jpg

http://images.nymag.com/nymag/toc/20100705_kidscvr_150.jpg

[Ares]

Do you? Please cite the current United States Code defining a "dollar" and/or "lawful money.

Section 411 of Title 12 of the United States Code provides that Federal Reserve Notes "shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank".

That by definition means that the FRN is not lawful money, and "dollars" (U.S. Notes) have not been in circulation since 1971.

So please by all means, go exchange your 5 "dollar" FRN for lawful money and tell us how that works out for you.

[Ares]

As for the money, why don't you take that 5 dollar bill and exchange it for lawful money? Let us know how that works out for you. ;D

Why don't you cite the current United States Code defining "lawful money"?


Sure thing, this good enough for you?

The United States Code, Title 12, Section 152, Lawful money shall be construed to mean gold or silver coin of the United States.

[Silver Shield]

Ronald Reagan and Alan Greenspan pulled off one of the greatest frauds ever perpetrated against the American people in the history of this great nation, and the underlying scam is still alive and well, more than a quarter century later.

This guy is so full of sh*t I can smell it from here.

Wrong, the person who pulled off one of the greatest frauds ever perpetrated against the American people in the history of this great nation was FDR.


Now that it is time to repay those special bonds in the Trust Fund, we are inundated in opinion pieces in the leading newspapers and magazines complaining about Social Security and its horrible impact on the budget.

TRUST FUND?? Are you F**KING kidding me? This guy actually believes there is a trust fund?


Social Security is not "broken" - the money is in the Trust Fund.

This moron is hopelessly delusional


Go past FDR and get to the original sellout WILSON who gave power to the Rothschilds and Rockefellers with the Federal Reserve, Income Tax, and the IRS...

[Ares]

Go past FDR and get to the original sellout WILSON who gave power to the Rothschilds and Rockefellers with the Federal Reserve, Income Tax, and the IRS...

Oh I'm definitely not disputing that Wilson was a traitor. Just pointing out that FDR gave us most of the taxes we have today at the barrel of a gun.

[Phoenix]

As for the money, why don't you take that 5 dollar bill and exchange it for lawful money? Let us know how that works out for you. ;D

Why don't you cite the current United States Code defining "lawful money"?


Sure thing, this good enough for you?

The United States Code, Title 12, Section 152, Lawful money shall be construed to mean gold or silver coin of the United States.


OOPSIE, on your part:

<a href="http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/usc.cgi?ACTION=RETRIEVE&FILE=$$xa$$busc12.wais&start=418280&SIZE=926&TYPE=TEXT">Link to 12 USC 152</a>

"Secs. 151 to 153. Repealed."

[Ares]

As for the money, why don't you take that 5 dollar bill and exchange it for lawful money? Let us know how that works out for you. ;D

Why don't you cite the current United States Code defining "lawful money"?


Sure thing, this good enough for you?

The United States Code, Title 12, Section 152, Lawful money shall be construed to mean gold or silver coin of the United States.


OOPSIE, on your part:

<a href="http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/usc.cgi?ACTION=RETRIEVE&FILE=$$xa$$busc12.wais&start=418280&SIZE=926&TYPE=TEXT">Link to 12 USC 152</a>

"Secs. 151 to 153. Repealed."




Damn good find, I didn't realize it had been repealed.

[vacuum]

The original article shows a lack of understanding of the monetary system. Very often people confuse causes and effects. The author thinks that going into national debt was a cause of our economic problems, when in reality it was a necessary effect of our monetary system. As he mentioned, Reagan oversaw $1 trillion of new debt, Bush oversaw $4 trillion, etc. This is simply exponential growth. If those presidents hadn't increased the debt the way they did, there would have been a deflationary depression (milder than what we face however, which is collapse). People are always fixated on politics and economics, but never talk about the monetary system, which drives the other two.

[Horn]

Well with all these good internet records such as this thread, it should never happen again, right?

That is of course the masons don't buy the site rights and wipe the records...

[Phoenix]

As for the money, why don't you take that 5 dollar bill and exchange it for lawful money? Let us know how that works out for you. ;D

Why don't you cite the current United States Code defining "lawful money"?


Sure thing, this good enough for you?

The United States Code, Title 12, Section 152, Lawful money shall be construed to mean gold or silver coin of the United States.


OOPSIE, on your part:

<a href="http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/usc.cgi?ACTION=RETRIEVE&FILE=$$xa$$busc12.wais&start=418280&SIZE=926&TYPE=TEXT">Link to 12 USC 152</a>

"Secs. 151 to 153. Repealed."




Damn good find, I didn't realize it had been repealed.


Thank you for your honesty!

I follow Viera, et.al.'s commentaries, and know that most of it is pure bunk. I've researched this myself. SirGonzo's thread made me confirm the details about "lawful money," so I was ready for this thread.

[Ares]

Thank you for your honesty!

I follow Viera, et.al.'s commentaries, and know that most of it is pure bunk. I've researched this myself. SirGonzo's thread made me confirm the details about "lawful money," so I was ready for this thread.

I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong.

Thank you for that link, I'll be adding it to the collection.

[Phoenix]

Thank you for your honesty!

I follow Viera, et.al.'s commentaries, and know that most of it is pure bunk. I've researched this myself. SirGonzo's thread made me confirm the details about "lawful money," so I was ready for this thread.

I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong.

Thank you for that link, I'll be adding it to the collection.


I don't support an absolute gold standard, because I recognize that the International Jewish banksters own most of the gold. We need to use debt-free, interest-free fiat currency initially, to destroy their influence in our society, during a transition to a metals-based currency (silver being most appropriate as a primary for our circumstances). A new Continental Currency.

[iOWNme]

Why don't you cite the current United States Code defining "lawful money"?


Well finding Law in the US Code may be......challenging.

Here;s a stab:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/search/display.html?terms=dollar&url=/uscode/html/uscode31/usc_sec_31_00005112----000-.html


(a) The Secretary of the Treasury may mint and issue only the following coins:
(1) a dollar coin that is 1.043 inches in diameter.
(2) a half dollar coin that is 1.205 inches in diameter and weighs 11.34 grams.
(3) a quarter dollar coin that is 0.955 inch in diameter and weighs 5.67 grams.
(4) a dime coin that is 0.705 inch in diameter and weighs 2.268 grams.
(5) a 5-cent coin that is 0.835 inch in diameter and weighs 5 grams.
(6) except as provided under subsection (c) of this section, a one-cent coin that is 0.75 inch in diameter and weighs 3.11 grams.
(7) A fifty dollar gold coin that is 32.7 millimeters in diameter, weighs 33.931 grams, and contains one troy ounce of fine gold.
(8) A twenty-five dollar gold coin that is 27.0 millimeters in diameter, weighs 16.966 grams, and contains one-half troy ounce of fine gold.
(9) A ten dollar gold coin that is 22.0 millimeters in diameter, weighs 8.483 grams, and contains one-fourth troy ounce of fine gold.
(10) A five dollar gold coin that is 16.5 millimeters in diameter, weighs 3.393 grams, and contains one-tenth troy ounce of fine gold.
(11) [u]A $50 gold coin that is of an appropriate size and thickness, as determined by the Secretary, weighs 1 ounce, and contains 99.99 percent pure gold.



We have hijacked this SS thread....Im going to start a new Lawful money thread (oh great!!!!)

SOCIAL SECURITY = LABOR FOR COLLECTIVE = SLAVERY

[Phoenix]

Why don't you cite the current United States Code defining "lawful money"?


Well finding Law in the US Code may be......challenging.

Here;s a stab...


...in the dark...and a MISS.

As SirGonzo pointed out a couple days ago, FRNs may be "redeemed for lawful money," but that phrase, "lawful money" is NOT defined in the USC.

[zap]

QUOTE from Phoenix;

We need to use debt-free, interest-free fiat currency initially, to destroy their influence in our society, during a transition to a metals-based currency (silver being most appropriate as a primary for our circumstances). A new Continental Currency.


Sorry, but I guess I must have some Jew in my genes somewhere, If I lend you or anybody else
(silver,gold) or money I will want interest, you could call it something else but it would be interest.

I'll give you 5 ounces of gold , and you pay me back 6. ;)

[Phoenix]

QUOTE from Phoenix;

We need to use debt-free, interest-free fiat currency initially, to destroy their influence in our society, during a transition to a metals-based currency (silver being most appropriate as a primary for our circumstances). A new Continental Currency.


Sorry, but I guess I must have some Jew in my genes somewhere, If I lend you or anybody else
(silver,gold) or money I will want interest, you could call it something else but it would be interest.

I'll give you 5 ounces of gold , and you pay me back 6. ;)


You said it, not I.

Please re-read what I said: "debt-free, interest-free fiat currency"

These were issued by the Secretary of the Treasury acting on President Kennedy's direction...gee, Kennedy, isn't that the guy that got killed shortly afterwards?

[jetgraphics]

Money Reference:

TITLE 12,CHAPTER 3,SUBCHAPTER XII,sec. 411. Issuance to reserve banks;
nature of obligation; redemption
" Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized. The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in LAWFUL MONEY on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank."

LAWFUL MONEY - "The terms 'lawful money' and 'lawful money of the United States' shall be construed to mean gold or silver coin of the United States..."
Title 12 United States Code, Sec. 152.

"Dollars, or units; each to be of the value of a Spanish milled as the same is now current, and to contain three hundred and seventy-one grains and four-sixteenths parts of a grain of pure, or four hundred and sixteen grains of standard, silver."
--- Sec. 9, Coinage Act of 1792, January 1792

According to Title 31 of the U.S. code, a silver dollar complies with the original Coinage Act.

31 USC Sec. 5112. Denominations, specifications, and design of coins
(e)(1) ...weight 31.103 grams;
(e)(4) have inscriptions ... 1 Oz. Fine Silver ... One Dollar

REAL MONEY - Money which has real metallic, intrinsic value as distinguished from paper currency, checks and drafts.
Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p. 1264

MONEY - In usual and ordinary acceptation it means coins and paper currency used as a circulating medium of exchange, and does not embrace notes, bonds, evidences of debt, or other personal or real estate. Lane v. Railey, 280 Ky. 319, 133 S.W. 2d 74, 79, 81.
Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p. 1005

NOTE - An instrument containing an express and absolute promise of signer (i.e. maker) to pay to a specified person or order, or bearer, a definite sum of money at a specified time. An instrument that is a promise to pay other than a certificate of deposit. U.C.C. 3-104(2)(d)
Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p. 1060

TENDER - An offer of money ... Legal tender is that kind of coin, money, or circulating medium which the law compels a creditor to accept in payment of his debt, when tendered by the debtor in the right amount.
Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p. 1467

[Note: FRNs are legal tender on the obligated party of those notes - the Federal government. . . AND the 300 million enumerated socialists.]

"Federal reserve notes are legal tender in absence of objection thereto."
MacLeod v. Hoover (1925) 159 La 244, 105 So. 305

All duly enumerated American socialists cannot object to the tender of the notes that THEY are obligated parties to. (thanks to FICA)

Recapping:

* Lawful money = gold / silver coin (aka real money)
* Money = lawful money or currency (i.e., certificates which are receipts for real money)
* Notes are not money, by law


The soon to be 14 trillion dollar public debt cannot be paid with debt instruments (FRNs). There is not enough gold bullion in the world to pay it. Nor can Congress question its validity despite being impossible to repay.

14th amendment, Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

[jetgraphics]

Please re-read what I said: "debt-free, interest-free fiat currency"

A United States NOTE is still a NOTE. A note, by definition, is a debt. It is a promise to pay face value - in the future. Ignoring the meaning of legal terms is not persuasive.

NOTE - An instrument containing an express and absolute promise of signer (i.e. maker) to pay to a specified person or order, or bearer, a definite sum of money at a specified time. An instrument that is a promise to pay other than a certificate of deposit. U.C.C. 3-104(2)(d)
Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p. 1060

MONEY - In usual and ordinary acceptation it means coins and paper currency used as a circulating medium of exchange, and does not embrace notes, bonds, evidences of debt, or other personal or real estate. Lane v. Railey, 280 Ky. 319, 133 S.W. 2d 74, 79, 81.
Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p. 1005

The only paper currency that is not a note is a certificate (a receipt for money in the vault).
The United States does not hold title to any lawful money with which to authorize the issuance of certificates.

[jetgraphics]

SirGonzo pointed out a couple days ago, FRNs may be "redeemed for lawful money," but that phrase, "lawful money" is NOT defined in the USC.


LAWFUL MONEY - "The terms 'lawful money' and 'lawful money of the United States' shall be construed to mean gold or silver coin of the United States..."
Title 12 United States Code, Sec. 152.

United States Constitution, Article 1, Section 8.
The Congress shall have Power To:
To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

United States Constitution, Article 1, Section 10.
No State shall ... coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts;

Is that sufficient data?

How 'bout this:
DEBTOR : ...The word "bankrupt" is not used in the federal Bankruptcy Code. Debtor is now the term used.
Black's Law Dictionary, 6th Edition.

That's right, folks, the term BANKRUPT is synonymous with DEBTOR, in the FEDERAL CODE.

Have you ever signed a "Creditor / Debtor" agreement, in which you contracted for usury with an instrumentality of the Federal Reserve Banking system?
OOPS...
Since 1933, no one has paid their debts, and thus are presumed to be bankrupts, pursuant to law.

[Twilight Zone theme wafting in the background...]

[Ares]

LAWFUL MONEY - "The terms 'lawful money' and 'lawful money of the United States' shall be construed to mean gold or silver coin of the United States..."
Title 12 United States Code, Sec. 152.

This code has been repealed.

From the U.S. Code Online via GPO Access
[www.gpoaccess.gov]
[Laws in effect as of January 3, 2007]
[CITE: 12USC151]

[Page 56]

TITLE 12--BANKS AND BANKING

CHAPTER 2--NATIONAL BANKS

SUBCHAPTER IX--FORMATION OF ASSOCIATIONS TO ISSUE GOLD NOTES


Secs. 151 to 153. Repealed. Pub. L. 103-325, title VI,
Sec. 602(e)(22), (23), (f)(7), Sept. 23, 1994, 108 Stat. 2292,
2293

Section 151, R.S. Sec. 5185; Jan. 19, 1875, ch. 19, 18 Stat. 302,
related to organization of associations to issue gold notes.
Section 152, R.S. Sec. 5186, related to mandatory establishment of
lawful money reserves by associations issuing gold notes and reception
by such associations of gold notes of other associations in payment of
debts.
Section 153, act Feb. 14, 1880, ch. 25, 21 Stat. 66, related to
conversion of gold banks into currency banks.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/usc.cgi?ACTION=RETRIEVE&FILE=$$xa$$busc12.wais&start=418280&SIZE=926&TYPE=TEXT

[Phoenix]

LAWFUL MONEY - "The terms 'lawful money' and 'lawful money of the United States' shall be construed to mean gold or silver coin of the United States..."
Title 12 United States Code, Sec. 152.


OOPS (again):

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode12/usc_sec_12_00000151----000-.html

"§§ 151 to 153. Repealed."

[Phoenix]

Ignoring the meaning of legal terms is not persuasive....Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed.


Black's Law Dictionary is NOT law. Show me, in the current United States Code, the definitions.

[Phoenix]

LAWFUL MONEY - "The terms 'lawful money' and 'lawful money of the United States' shall be construed to mean gold or silver coin of the United States..."
Title 12 United States Code, Sec. 152.


12 USC 152: REPEALED

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode12/usc_sec_12_00000151----000-.html




United States Constitution, Article 1, Section 8.
The Congress shall have Power To:
To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;


Would you have a problem with a $500 coin made solely of aluminum?




Is that sufficient data?


No.

[MoMoney]

I liked the article, too. I don't think it's fair to say that just because FDR instituted this corrupt system, that it automatically abrogates the responsibility of other presidents that exacerbated its negative effects.
The article made a good point concerning the propaganda out there that tries to portray social security as an entitlement program. It's not. It's a forced insurace program. See UI, Obamacare, et al. The bad guys intentionally use the same term to mean completely different things (welfare, disability, etc).

dys


Aside from taking us off a gold standard (thereby rendering dollars worthless), he also promised no involvement in war. Then he had a secret meeting with Churchill. Ooops, many US soldiers die in war. Yep, FDR.....memorable!

[gunDriller]

If it weren't for quibble there'd be no GSUS, I come here for the quibble. ;)


if you come for the quibble, what do you stay for ?

(haven't had my coffee. what rhymes with "quibble" ?)

[MNeagle]

Nibble

[Quixote2]

Dribble

[Horn]

Quibble

[Gaillo]

Kibble.

[Phoenix]

Tribble.