Defining Lawful Money

[iOWNme]

This thread is dedicated to finding the TRUE definition of Lawful Money....And the Definition of a Dollar.

Starting here:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode31/usc_sec_31_00005112----000-.html


TITLE 31 > SUBTITLE IV > CHAPTER 51 > SUBCHAPTER II > § 5112
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§ 5112. Denominations, specifications, and design of coins
How Current is This?
(a) The Secretary of the Treasury may mint and issue only the following coins:
(1) a dollar coin that is 1.043 inches in diameter.
(2) a half dollar coin that is 1.205 inches in diameter and weighs 11.34 grams.
(3) a quarter dollar coin that is 0.955 inch in diameter and weighs 5.67 grams.
(4) a dime coin that is 0.705 inch in diameter and weighs 2.268 grams.
(5) a 5-cent coin that is 0.835 inch in diameter and weighs 5 grams.
(6) except as provided under subsection (c) of this section, a one-cent coin that is 0.75 inch in diameter and weighs 3.11 grams.
(7) A fifty dollar gold coin that is 32.7 millimeters in diameter, weighs 33.931 grams, and contains one troy ounce of fine gold.
(8) A twenty-five dollar gold coin that is 27.0 millimeters in diameter, weighs 16.966 grams, and contains one-half troy ounce of fine gold.
(9) A ten dollar gold coin that is 22.0 millimeters in diameter, weighs 8.483 grams, and contains one-fourth troy ounce of fine gold.
(10) A five dollar gold coin that is 16.5 millimeters in diameter, weighs 3.393 grams, and contains one-tenth troy ounce of fine gold.
(11) A $50 gold coin that is of an appropriate size and thickness, as determined by the Secretary, weighs 1 ounce, and contains 99.99 percent pure gold.

[iOWNme]

Coinage Act of 1792:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coinage_Act_of_1792



Eagles $10 247 4/8 grain (16.0 g) pure or 270 grain (17.5 g) standard gold
Half Eagles $5 123 6/8 grain (8.02 g) pure or 135 grain (8.75 g) standard gold
Quarter Eagles $2.50 61 7/8 grain (4.01 g) pure or 67 4/8 grain (4.37 g) standard gold
Dollars or Units $1 371 4/16 grain (24.1 g) pure or 416 grain (27.0 g) standard silver
Half Dollars $0.50 185 10/16 grain (12.0 g) pure or 208 grain (13.5 g) standard silver
Quarter Dollars $0.25 92 13/16 grain (6.01 g) pure or 104 grains (6.74 g) standard silver
Dismes $0.10 37 2/16 grain (2.41 g) pure or 41 3/5 grain (2.70 g) standard silver
Half Dismes $0.05 18 9/16 grain (1.20 g) pure or 20 4/5 grain (1.35 g) standard silver
Cents $0.01 11 pennyweights (17.1 g) of copper
Half Cents $0.005 5 1/2 pennyweights (8.55 g) of copper

[jetgraphics]

[Nit picking flag on]
There is a well known legal trick of using a word or term in such a manner as to persuade you that they are synonymous.
Statutes and statutory appear related, but in practice may refer to different categories.

A dollar *(Coinage Act of 1792) and a dollar coin (Title 31 USC Sec. § 5112) seem similar, but are not.
A dollar is a coin, but a "dollar coin" is not necessarily a dollar. It's a coin, but is it equivalent to a dollar, as originally defined?

31 USC Sec. 5112. Denominations, specifications, and design of coins
(e) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Secretary shall mint and issue, in quantities sufficient to meet public demand, coins which—
(1) are 40.6 millimeters in diameter and weigh 31.103 grams;
(2) contain .999 fine silver;
(3) have a design—
(A) symbolic of Liberty on the obverse side; and
(B) of an eagle on the reverse side;
(4) have inscriptions of the year of minting or issuance, and the words “Liberty”, “In God We Trust”, “United States of America”,
“1 Oz. Fine Silver”, “E Pluribus Unum”, and “One Dollar”; and
(5) have reeded edges.

From my 1992 Code reference:
31 USC Sec. 5112. Denominations, specifications, and design of coins
(e)(1) ...weight 31.103 grams;
(e)(4) have inscriptions ... 1 Oz. Fine Silver ... One Dollar

Now, the coup de grace - - -
(g) For purposes of section 5132 (a)(1) of this title, all coins minted under subsection (e) of this section shall be considered to be numismatic items.

[Expletive deleted]
Now, let us do a quick review to pierce the legal bafflegab.

A "dollar coin" (the "dollard"?) is a coin that is 1.043 inches in diameter. (26.5 mm in dia.)
But a dollar (which has the right amount of silver) defined under section (e) is 1.59 inches in diameter. (40.6 millimeters in diameter)

DO YOU SEE IT YET?
A dollar coin is not a dollar, as defined by the Coinage Act, and the silver dollar, minted under section (e) is numismatic (!) and not to be considered a "dollar" for redemption purposes.

FRAUD, THIEVERY, DECEPTION - the hallmarks of the best Congress that bribery can buy.
These counterfeiters are arrogant and bold scoundrels, all of them are guilty.

[iOWNme]

Interesting points made Jet. It seems to me that Lawful money does exist, but the Government chooses not to recognize it, see it, use it, coin it, print it etc. Especially that numismatic mention, as if they can just POOF change real money to a 'collector's item' or something....

I found this very interesting:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode31/usc_sec_31_00005118----000-.html

5118 Gold Clauses and Consent to Sue



(a) In this section—
(1) “gold clause” means a provision in or related to an obligation alleging to give the obligee a right to require payment in—
(A) gold;
(B) a particular United States coin or currency; or
(C) United States money measured in gold or a particular United States coin or currency.
(2) “public debt obligation” means a domestic obligation issued or guaranteed by the United States Government to repay money or interest.

(b) The United States Government may not pay out any gold coin. A person lawfully holding United States coins and currency may present the coins and currency to the Secretary of the Treasury for exchange (dollar for dollar) for other United States coins and currency (other than gold and silver coins) that may be lawfully held. The Secretary shall make the exchange under regulations prescribed by the Secretary.

(c)
(1) The Government withdraws its consent given to anyone to assert against the Government, its agencies, or its officers, employees, or agents, a claim—
(A) on a gold clause public debt obligation or interest on the obligation;
(B) for United States coins or currency; or
(C) arising out of the surrender, requisition, seizure, or acquisition of United States coins or currency, gold, or silver involving the effect or validity of a change in the metallic content of the dollar or in a regulation about the value of money.

(2) Paragraph (1) of this subsection does not apply to a proceeding in which no claim is made for payment or credit in an amount greater than the face or nominal value in dollars of public debt obligations or United States coins or currency involved in the proceeding.
(3) Except when consent is not withdrawn under this subsection, an amount appropriated for payment on public debt obligations and for United States coins and currency may be expended only dollar for dollar.

(d)
(1) In this subsection, “obligation” means any obligation (except United States currency) payable in United States money.
(2) An obligation issued containing a gold clause or governed by a gold clause is discharged on payment (dollar for dollar) in United States coin or currency that is legal tender at the time of payment. This paragraph does not apply to an obligation issued after October 27, 1977.


SO again they arent saying real money doesnt exist, they are merely saying they choose not to recognize it, and will not redeem it in G&S but in another dollar/legal tender.

[DMac]

The counterfeiting continued back in 1997:


The "United States Dollar Coin Act of 1997" (H.R. 2637) is the bill that was responsible for what ultimately became the Sacagawea Dollar. It was introduced into the United States House of Representatives on October 8, 1997 by the Representative from Delaware, Mike Castle. This is a copy of that bill autographed by Representative Castle. The "United States Dollar Coin Act of 1997" was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on December 1, 1997.


http://www.smalldollars.com/dollar/page18.html


United States $1 Coin Act of 1997 (Introduced in the House)

HR 2637 IH

105th CONGRESS

1st Session

H. R. 2637

To provide for the minting and circulation of $1 coins, and for other purposes.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
October 8, 1997

Mr. CASTLE introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Banking and Financial Services

A BILL

To provide for the minting and circulation of $1 coins, and for other purposes.

* Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

* This Act may be cited as the `United States $1 Coin Act of 1997'.

SEC. 2. $1 COINS.

* (a) WEIGHT- Section 5112(a) of title 31, United States Code, is amended by striking `and weighs 8.1 grams'.

* (b) COLOR AND CONTENT- Section 5112(b) of title 31, United States Code, is amended--

*
o (1) in the 1st sentence, by striking `dollar,'; and

*
o (2) by inserting after the 4th sentence the following new sentence: `The dollar coin shall be golden in color, have a distinctive edge, have tactile and visual features that make the denomination of the coin readily discernible, be minted and fabricated in the United States, and have similar metallic, anticounterfeiting properties as United States clad coinage in circulation on the date of the enactment of the United States $1 Coin Act of 1997.'.

* (c) DESIGN- Section 5112(d)(1) of title 31, United States Code, is amended by striking out the 5th and 6th sentences and inserting the following new sentence: `The obverse side of the dollar coin shall have a design depicting the Statue of Liberty.'.

* (d) PRODUCTION OF STATUE OF LIBERTY COINS-

*
o (1) IN GENERAL- Upon the depletion of the Government's supply (as of the date of the enactment of this Act) of $1 coins bearing the likeness of Susan B. Anthony, the Secretary of the Treasury shall place into circulation $1 coins which bear a design depicting the Statue of Liberty (and which otherwise comply with the requirements of subsections (b) and (d)(1) of section 5112 of title 31, United States Code, as amended by subsections (b) and (c) of this section).

*
o (2) AUTHORITY OF SECRETARY TO CONTINUE PRODUCTION- If the supply of $1 coins bearing the likeness of Susan B. Anthony is depleted before production has begun of $1 coins which bear a design depicting the Statue of Liberty (and which otherwise comply with the requirements of subsections (b) and (d)(1) of section 5112 of title 31, United States Code, as amended by subsections (b) and (c) of this section), the Secretary of the Treasury may continue to mint and issue $1 coins bearing the likeness of Susan B. Anthony in accordance with such section 5112 (as in effect on the day before the date of the enactment of this Act) until such time as such production begins.

[sirgonzo420]

From http://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/lawfulmoney.asp :


What Does Lawful Money Mean?
Any form of currency issued by the United States Treasury and not the Federal Reserve System, including gold and silver coins, Treasury notes, and Treasury bonds. Lawful money stands in contrast to fiat money, to which the government assigns value although it has no intrinsic value of its own and is not backed by reserves. Fiat money includes legal tender such as paper money, checks, drafts and bank notes.

Also known as "specie", which means "in actual form."


Investopedia explains Lawful Money
Oddly enough, the dollar bills that we carry around in our wallets are not considered lawful money. The notation on the bottom of a U.S. dollar bill reads "Legal Tender for All Debts, Public and Private", and is issued by the U.S. Federal Reserve, not the U.S. Treasury. Legal tender can be exchanged for an equivalent amount of lawful money, but effects such as inflation can change the value of fiat money. Lawful money is said to be the most direct form of ownership, but for purposes of practicality it has little use in direct transactions between parties anymore.

By operation of law, 'lawful money' is what you receive when you redeem FRN's per 12 USC 411.

Note that "redeem" means "to buy back"/"to remove debt associated with".

[sirgonzo420]

Here are some suijurisclub threads on 12 USC 411 / lawful money:

http://www.suijurisclub.net/introduce-yourself/8169-redeemed-lawful-money-pursuant-12-usc-411-a.html

http://www.suijurisclub.net/success-stories/1852-title-12-u-s-c-411-a.html

http://www.suijurisclub.net/court/3724-lawful-money.html

http://www.suijurisclub.net/banks-collection-cra/4124-coins-lawful-money.html

http://www.suijurisclub.net/announcement-awareness/8548-moved-re-12-usc-411-a.html

http://www.suijurisclub.net/taxation/8305-legal-tender-lawful-money.html

[jetgraphics]

18 U.S.C. § 485 : US Code - Section 485: Coins or bars
Whoever falsely makes, forges, or counterfeits any coin or bar in resemblance or similitude of any coin of a denomination higher than
5 cents or any gold or silver bar coined or stamped at any mint or assay office of the United States, or in resemblance or similitude
of any foreign gold or silver coin current in the United States or in actual use and circulation as money within the United States; or
Whoever passes, utters, publishes, sells, possesses, or brings into the United States any false, forged, or counterfeit coin or
bar, knowing the same to be false, forged, or counterfeit, with intent to defraud any body politic or corporate, or any person, or
attempts the commission of any offense described in this paragraph - Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than
fifteen years, or both.


Does this explain why the "golden dollar" does not contain more metal than 5 copper pennies of the pre-bankruptcy past?
http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs/golden_dollar_coin/index.cfm?action=sacDesign
"golden" dollar
8.1 grams in weight, 88.5% copper
{7.1685 gms. copper}

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penny_(United_States_coin)
Pennies issued before 1982: 3.11 grams of copper

5 x 3.11 gms = 15.55 gms. of copper (in five cents)

=============================
Thank you, Congress, for making the "dollar coin" that is almost 3 pennies worth of copper. We are so grateful that you have robbed us, and our progeny, of their inheritance, our wealth and substance. We are gratified that you live beyondyour means and ours, and demand our fealty and deference to your "honorable" stature as "public servants".

[jetgraphics]

It seems to me that Lawful money does exist, but the Government chooses not to recognize it, see it, use it, coin it, print it etc. Especially that numismatic mention, as if they can just POOF change real money to a 'collector's item' or something....

SO again they arent saying real money doesnt exist, they are merely saying they choose not to recognize it, and will not redeem it in G&S but in another dollar/legal tender.


Lawful money does not circulate, so few, if any Americans "pay their debts".

United States Constitution, Article 1, Section 8.
The Congress shall have Power To:
To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

United States Constitution, Article 1, Section 10.
No State shall ... coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts;

No state government can issue "bills of credit" (notes).

To the best of my understanding, and reliance on several diligent researchers before me, the United States, in Congress assembled, did default, in 1933, and was re-organized under bankruptcy rules. As trustees of their own bankruptcy, the Congress did transform from public servants into trustees obligated to the Creditor (those who own the stock in the banks, etc, of the Federal Reserve corporation, etc). They did conspire to entice the people to underwrite their profligate debt, via FICA. This generation is reaping the consequences of their actions.

The tragedy is that the law, in the public record, is proof that everything was done by "consent" of the people.

[jetgraphics]

The fever of money madness doth infect many.

Money madness is the belief that a money token must have intrinsic value in itself, independent of the marketplace. Such a belief is a form of madness. Mathematics will show that no subset of a set can be a representation for that set. In other words, you cannot have equitable trade in a marketplace, when some "thing" (i.e., precious metal coin) in the marketplace is deemed to have a "value" proportional to the whole marketplace.

This madness is compounded by the abomination of usury - charging a fee, in money, for the "use" of money. Usury has been denounced as an abomination for at least 3500 years, and condemned by all religions (that I checked). Billions embrace this viper and act surprised when it bites them.

In truth, money is nothing, a nothing, an accounting system, and a medium of exchange that facilitates trade in the marketplace. Money without a marketplace is useless and worthless. A marketplace without money will function, but not as well. (That's why "saving money for a rainy day" is defeating the purpose of money - the facilitation of trade.)

The reality is that prosperity is the creation, trade, transportation and enjoyment of surplus usable goods and services. Madness drives people to chase after the abstraction (money) while ignoring the reality (the production of goods and services). Most dream of "getting rich" - few dream of how they will produce "more for less", and enrich everyone.

The infected masses are so deluded as to think that they're wealthy because they possess a large sum of money tokens, when, in reality, they are indentured servants, bound to a lifetime of toil for the benefit of another.

I do not have the cure, unfortunately.

[The Great Ag]

Everyone who has posted has given great information, but it seems we are no closer to defining lawful money, although Sir G has given an awesome definition and mentioned about redeeming FRNs. All good information, but still leaves us without a working definition of lawful money.

First question to answer is, "does 'lawful money' exist?" Answer: yes. How do we know? From the well known US code 12USC411 wherein it states, "They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States

"Lawful money" exists, but what form can it take? Sir G gave us one type of "lawful money" when a FRN is "redeemed" at any fed bank or US Treas in DC. But aspect of redemption" turns the FRN into "lawful money."

In trying to define "lawful money" I want to approach this idea from a tax perspective. Has anyone ever noticed how the the US gov't gives EVERY TAXPAYER $1000 off their gross income? Why do they do that? The answer is strictly my opinion and I do not have any code or case cites to back me, so it is merely an educated opinion, but fits the logic of what constitutes "lawful money." The $1000 is the gov'ts best estimate of ALL coins a taxpayer spends in a tax year. What makes an equal amount of coins different from a 1FRN? THree words are absent from ALL coins that is found on every FRN. Those words are Federal Reserve note.

Using Sir G's definition of "lawful money," "Any form of currency issued by the United States Treasury and not the Federal Reserve System" we find that ALL coins are minted from the US mint, being a department of the US treasury. As such, all coins are PUBLIC MONEY, and PUBLIC MONEY cannot be taxed, except for a few instances the gov't chooses not to tax - although it could, but that would give away the game. Coins are public money and the gov't estimates that the average TAXPAYER spends $1000 every year in coins and the gov't must deduct those coins for tax purposes.

So, using inference, "lawful money" is the same as "public money."

To show my logic is correct, let us examine what happens when a FRN is "redeemed" at any fed bank or the US treas.

When the gov't needs money, it asks the US treasury to create bonds and notes to give to the fed. Those bonds and notes are PUBLIC MONEY and not-taxable. The fed then deposits those bonds into its books and credits the face value of the bonds as FRNs into Uncle Sam's bank account. Uncle Sam now must pay back to the fed the amount of FRNs plus interest. The gov't is charge a fee for using a "private money." Did you see how public money/lawful money became private money and therefore taxable? When we accept and use private money (FRNs), we accrue an unrecusable obligation, i.e. we become responsible for paying the interest on the FRNs, hence the tax obligation. Does that make sense? Since the FRN is private money, the law must provide a remedy and that remedy is redemption. When someone takes a FRN to a fed bank or the US treas and demands redemption in "lawful money" that person is given public money in exchange for the FRN.

What happens behind the scenes is key. For every FRN redeemed, the fed MUST reduce the US debt one dollar for every FRN redeemed. In other words, it surrenders back to the US treas an equal amount of US bonds as were redeemed. The law requires this. A few people acting in concert could shut down the fed reserve system by redeeming a large quantity of FRNs. Paper currency and coins make up around 10% (estimate off the top of my head) of the total FRN supply. It would not take much to collapse the system.

Now we know what "lawful money" is. How public money is transferred into taxable private money and what happens to that private money when redeemed.

The Great Ag

[sirgonzo420]

Everyone who has posted has given great information, but it seems we are no closer to defining lawful money, although Sir G has given an awesome definition and mentioned about redeeming FRNs. All good information, but still leaves us without a working definition of lawful money.

First question to answer is, "does 'lawful money' exist?" Answer: yes. How do we know? From the well known US code 12USC411 wherein it states, "They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States

"Lawful money" exists, but what form can it take? Sir G gave us one type of "lawful money" when a FRN is "redeemed" at any fed bank or US Treas in DC. But aspect of redemption" turns the FRN into "lawful money."

In trying to define "lawful money" I want to approach this idea from a tax perspective. Has anyone ever noticed how the the US gov't gives EVERY TAXPAYER $1000 off their gross income? Why do they do that? The answer is strictly my opinion and I do not have any code or case cites to back me, so it is merely an educated opinion, but fits the logic of what constitutes "lawful money." The $1000 is the gov'ts best estimate of ALL coins a taxpayer spends in a tax year. What makes an equal amount of coins different from a 1FRN? THree words are absent from ALL coins that is found on every FRN. Those words are Federal Reserve note.

Using Sir G's definition of "lawful money," "Any form of currency issued by the United States Treasury and not the Federal Reserve System" we find that ALL coins are minted from the US mint, being a department of the US treasury. As such, all coins are PUBLIC MONEY, and PUBLIC MONEY cannot be taxed, except for a few instances the gov't chooses not to tax - although it could, but that would give away the game. Coins are public money and the gov't estimates that the average TAXPAYER spends $1000 every year in coins and the gov't must deduct those coins for tax purposes.

So, using inference, "lawful money" is the same as "public money."

To show my logic is correct, let us examine what happens when a FRN is "redeemed" at any fed bank or the US treas.

When the gov't needs money, it asks the US treasury to create bonds and notes to give to the fed. Those bonds and notes are PUBLIC MONEY and not-taxable. The fed then deposits those bonds into its books and credits the face value of the bonds as FRNs into Uncle Sam's bank account. Uncle Sam now must pay back to the fed the amount of FRNs plus interest. The gov't is charge a fee for using a "private money." Did you see how public money/lawful money became private money and therefore taxable? When we accept and use private money (FRNs), we accrue an unrecusable obligation, i.e. we become responsible for paying the interest on the FRNs, hence the tax obligation. Does that make sense? Since the FRN is private money, the law must provide a remedy and that remedy is redemption. When someone takes a FRN to a fed bank or the US treas and demands redemption in "lawful money" that person is given public money in exchange for the FRN.

What happens behind the scenes is key. For every FRN redeemed, the fed MUST reduce the US debt one dollar for every FRN redeemed. In other words, it surrenders back to the US treas an equal amount of US bonds as were redeemed. The law requires this. A few people acting in concert could shut down the fed reserve system by redeeming a large quantity of FRNs. Paper currency and coins make up around 10% (estimate off the top of my head) of the total FRN supply. It would not take much to collapse the system.

Now we know what "lawful money" is. How public money is transferred into taxable private money and what happens to that private money when redeemed.

The Great Ag


Thanks for taking the time to type that out.

That is pretty much my mental model as well, except that we aren't even allowed IN the Federal Reserve Bank Branches.

It's my contention that anyone who endorses the Federal Reserve System (by holding non-redeemed FRNs) is a sort of de facto "federal reserve bank":


Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized

I make a demand for lawful money anytime my signature is required to receive cash.

[iOWNme]

Using Sir G's definition of "lawful money," "Any form of currency issued by the United States Treasury and not the Federal Reserve System" we find that ALL coins are minted from the US mint, being a department of the US treasury. As such, all coins are PUBLIC MONEY, and PUBLIC MONEY cannot be taxed, except for a few instances the gov't chooses not to tax - although it could, but that would give away the game. Coins are public money and the gov't estimates that the average TAXPAYER spends $1000 every year in coins and the gov't must deduct those coins for tax purposes.

Except for the fact that under the Bretton Woods Treaty the US Treasury was declared insolvent, and was to be funded through the IMF, a branch of the UN. Im not saying a Lawful version of the Treaury Dept doesnt exist, but according to commerce they killed it with the Bretton Woods Treaty.

Although i do agree that there is a specific reason coins do not say 'legal tender, etc' on them. And it has nothing to do with how much room is on a dime. :)

Also makes you wonder why the Fed didnt get the power to coin...Maybe because only the CONgress has the authority to 'coin' money? Interesting....

[The Great Ag]

Using Sir G's definition of "lawful money," "Any form of currency issued by the United States Treasury and not the Federal Reserve System" we find that ALL coins are minted from the US mint, being a department of the US treasury. As such, all coins are PUBLIC MONEY, and PUBLIC MONEY cannot be taxed, except for a few instances the gov't chooses not to tax - although it could, but that would give away the game. Coins are public money and the gov't estimates that the average TAXPAYER spends $1000 every year in coins and the gov't must deduct those coins for tax purposes.

Except for the fact that under the Bretton Woods Treaty the US Treasury was declared insolvent, and was to be funded through the IMF, a branch of the UN. Im not saying a Lawful version of the Treaury Dept doesnt exist, but according to commerce they killed it with the Bretton Woods Treaty.

Although i do agree that there is a specific reason coins do not say 'legal tender, etc' on them. And it has nothing to do with how much room is on a dime. :)

Also makes you wonder why the Fed didnt get the power to coin...Maybe because only the CONgress has the authority to 'coin' money? Interesting....

The IMF does NOT fund the US Treasury. Currently, when the IMF credits monies to a gov'ts account, that gov't must give the IMF "dollars" or gold. The "dollar" is still the preferred currency. . .for now.

If I am wrong about the IMF, please post documentation. My understanding is the US Treas gives bonds to the fed who credits FRNs into Uncle Sam's account. No IMF involved in that transaction.

HOWEVER, the Secretary of the Treasury, currently Geithner, is also a governor of the IMF. There are definitely links between the IMF and the fed.

[iOWNme]

A lot of info here:

http://usa-the-republic.com/emergency%20powers/United%20States%20Bankrupt.html


The Bretton Woods Treaty has been amended since, with the Bretton Woods II. If you read through it you will find that the TREASURY OF THE US is paid from the IMF, which under this treaty is a branch of the United Nations.



On October 28, 1977 the passage of Public Law 95-147, [91 Stat. 1227] declared most banking institutions, including State banks, to be under direction and control of the corporate "Governor" of the International Monetary Fund [See: Public Law 94-564, Legislative History, pg. 5942, United States Government Manual 1990/91, pgs. 480-481]. The Act further declared that:

"(2) Section 10(a) of the Gold Reserve Act of 1934 (31 U.S.C. 822a(b)) is amended by striking out the phrase 'stabilizing the exchange value of the dollar' ... "

" (c) The joint resolution entitled' Joint resolution to assure uniform value to the coins and currencies of the United States', approved June 5, 1933 (31 U.S.C. 463) shall not apply to obligations issued on or after the date of enactment of this section."


Here is the PDF to the Treaty, if you havet read it already. it is VERY interesting:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CBkQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.teamlaw.org%2FBWAgreements.pd f&ei=Bt9ZTOSFI5TksQPngZHMCw&usg=AFQjCNFuYjNrTexzauqNxnoU6WItf9qxGw


I am not saying i am right, this is just how i have come to understand it. The Federal Reserve is a Central Bank. 1 of around 180+ Central Banks that run other countries, all in concert with the IMF and UN.