Opting out of Property Tax?? - UPDATE

[Ares]

Paying property tax is one of those things which most
Americans have accepted as if it was a way of life.
However, most people are unaware as to why they pay
property tax in the first place. If you knew why you pay
this tax, you could then choose whether or not to pay
it, because like all taxes in this country, the property
tax is not a mandatory tax. If you knew the truth, would
you continue to pay?

Some of you will say that property tax goes to support
education, and if you don't pay the property tax then
you don't care anything about educating our children.
This is the cry of all good socialists, the enemies of
Americanism and the principles of limited government and
natural rights.

Anyone who has researched the educational system even a
little, knows that the United States Department of
Education has based its system on the Soviet education
system. This was proven by former Senior member of
Ronald Reagan's Department of Education, a courageous
woman who surreptitiously removed documents, then
exposed the truth for all to know.

Let's get back to the argument made by socialists
concerning how property tax money is used for education,
and if you don't pay it then you are against education.
My response is that money is the fuels for
bureaucracies. When a system (like education) is failing
to properly educate our children, but rather is making
them into mindless, unthinking, docile, obedient
servants of government, effective slaves for the work
force, then by fueling the system you are simply
guaranteeing that it will continue to do what it is
doing. If the results of the current system are
undesirable, then stop giving it fuel and it will cease
to operate.

Now that we have dealt with the principal naysayers,
let's talk about the property tax itself.

There are only two kinds of taxes - direct and indirect.
Direct taxes are prohibited by the Constitution - not
once but twice. Direct taxes are taxes on that which you
already own, and there may be no direct taxes under any
circumstances short of a state of war, and then only if
the taxes are equally apportioned among the Union
states.

Apportionment works like this: say the United States
government want to raise 500 million dollars for the
"war effort." Say, too, that California has ten (10%)
percent of the population. California gets a bill for 50
million dollars. Now let's say that California has 25
million people at this time. Everybody pays two dollars.
That's apportionment. It does not take into account how
much or how little you earn, how much or how little you
have, etc. It is completely fair and equable. An
apportioned tax must be repealed within two years of its
enactment.

The other type of tax is an indirect tax. Indirect taxes
are taxes on a particular activity or taxes levied at
the point of purchase. If you do not want to pay the
tax, don't engage in the taxed activity or don't
purchase the taxed item. Lawfully avoiding indirect
taxes is easy.

America was established so that a Citizen need not ever
pay any tax, unless he wished to do so.

So what is the property tax?

It is an indirect tax, levied because you have
voluntarily used government services, and also because
your property has been classified as a commercial piece
of property.

There is no law requiring a real property owner to
record his property with the County Recorder. Don't
believe me. Go ask your Recorder or County Counsel.
Therefore, when you do record your property, you are
using government services which you are not required to
use. Your property tax goes to pay for those services.

When you record your property, you enter into a
Trustor/Trustee relationship, in which your real
property has been transferred into a government trust,
and you are given authorized permission to use their
property (warranty deed).

Further, your property tax is based on a commercial
classification which has been assigned to your real
property. I guarantee you that your property has been
classified as either agricultural, industrial, or
residential. Each of these is commercial in nature (the
legal definition of "resident" is a class of government
official; residential is a house in which a government
official lives).

There are three ways to lawfully opt out of property
taxes: obtain allodial title, un-record your property,
or have your real property re-classified as private.

Allodial title means supreme ownership. In the united
States of America, all property is allodial in nature.
This means that all property is subject to supreme
ownership by the people. This also means that federal
government activities which take private or public land
to use for environmental or biosphere purposes, are
illegally stolen from the people, who are their rightful
owners.

If you can obtain allodial title to your real property,
you will have effectively created an envelope in which
you reign supreme (e.g. the King has allodial title to
the castle and the kingdom). No zoning ordinances,
easements, bureaucratic regulations, state or federal
law have any effect on property held in allodium.
Literally, you have created a kingdom in the midst of
bureaucratic chaos, and you will never again receive any
property tax assessments.

Needless to say, the government does not want you to
obtain allodial title to your property, and they will
actively work to prevent you from doing so.

There are three main steps toward acquiring allodial
title. First, the property must be completely paid off.
No mortgage, lien. or other attachment can exist.*

Second, you must go to the County Recorder and do a
title search. Do it yourself; do not have an attorney
(vested interest) or title company representative do it
for you, because nobody has as much interest as you in
the results. Do the search yourself. You must search
back to the original land grants, ensuring that there
are no hidden clouds on the title. Once you have
completed a successful title search, file for a federal
land patent on the land on which the property is located
(if the property is in one of the original thirteen
states, you will need to go to the state for a land
patent - no federal land patents exist for these
states).

Now comes the third part, this is also the hardest part.
Every piece of recorded real property is used to
collateralize government loans, so your real property
has public debt attached to it. You need to find out the
amount of the public debt (approximately seven times the
annual property tax) and the holder of the debt, then
pay it off.*

The government doesn't want you to accomplish this, so
they will work against you. I suggest you burn the
research candle at both ends, so to speak. Contact the
County Recorder in the county where the property is
located. Contact the Department of the Interior in
Washington, D.C. Be prepared in both instances to meet
with clerks who do not know what you are talking about.
Ask for supervisors until you get someone who can help
you.

The process of un-recording your property is easier,
though not quite as solid. It is based on the fact that
you are assessed a tax based upon using government
services (County Recorder) to which you are not entitled
or mandated. The process involves transferring ownership
to another party, notifying the County Recorder that a
transfer has been completed, then having the property -
after a reasonable time period has passed - transferred
back into your name. If done correctly, the property is
not recorded anymore, and there will be no further tax
assessments.

A man in Massachusetts had 160 acres and wanted to give
two of them to his son. He called the Tax Assessor and
asked him to reduce his assessment to 158 acres. The
Assessor did so.

The son never recorded his two acres. twelve and a half
years passed. The son now wanted to borrow money on his
two acres. The bank said they would loan him the money,
but only if he recorded the property first. He wanted
the money, so he recorded the property. Two weeks later,
he received a property tax statement - for the current
year only! The past twelve years went un-assessed - no
tax!

The final method of opting out of property tax is one
which is little known and rarely used. It involves the
classification of property, on which the assessed tax is
based.

Property which is taxed is always identified by one of
three commercial classifications: residential,
industrial or agricultural. Private property cannot be
taxed!

Contact your Tax Assessor and ask for a written
explanation of the numbered codes appearing on your
property tax statement. Once you have deciphered the
statement, you will find your property classified by one
of the above commercial designations.

Write a letter to your Tax Assessor, explaining that you
have discovered an error in your tax statement. Do not
mention the tax itself, as the error in question relates
only to the classification. Explain that your property
has mistakenly been classified as ____________
(agricultural, industrial, residential), and to please
correct the classification to read "private." Ask the
Assessor to notify you by mail once the matter has been
handled. Be polite and sign the letter, using words like
"Sincerely", "Best wishes", etc. There is no reason be
belligerent at this point.

If the Assessor honors your wishes, you will never see a
property tax statement again. If, as is more likely, the
Assessor writes back, refusing to adjust his records,
you may now open up discussion as to why not. Ask
whether you have the right to own private property. He
will say yes, of course. Ask why he refuses to classify
it as private property. He will either explain to you
that he cannot tax property unless it is classified
pursuant to constitutional limitations (residential,
industrial, agricultural), or he will reveal to you that
you do not really own the property (in which case he has
admitted to fraud, nullifying the transfer of property
in the first place, since you were not aware of what you
were doing at the time).

In either case, once the Assessor brings up taxation,
you can now make the argument that your real property
has been re-classified, without your permission, for the
sole purpose of taxation. This is the firm basis for a
lawsuit.

There is a Tax Assessor (not a clerk, the actual
Assessor) in Tennessee who has admitted that he cannot
tax private property. He can, if necessary, be
subpoenaed to testify. There is a private Citizen in
Tennessee, who has not received a penny in property tax
assessments on his private land (160 acres or so) for
over fifteen years! If you need it for a court case, he
will sign an affidavit so stating. In other words, the
precedent exists and therefore, if you pursue it, you
cannot lose!

This method is rarely used so it has little track
record. However, it is based upon sound law and I invite
you to try it out on your real property. Let me know how
it goes!

Here is a detailed step-by-step tutorial on how to
obtain Allodial Title for your property.



1 Get 3 certified copies of the origional land patent
and 1 certified copy of record of government survey
(if available) for the legal description of your
property. Request "best copy available" from national
archives. Expect to pay $30 for a copy and get it in
1-3 weeks.

2 Record 1 of these certified copies of the origional
land patent with the county recorders office. The
recorder number will be the land patent number you
will refer to in your Declaration of Land Patent.

3 Determine the legal description of your property (from
tax statement, deed, real estate contract, or tax
assessor's office) to which you are an assign. Get
property description narrative (get range #, township
#, section #, get quarter section in metes and bounds)

4 Research the assigns (i.e. heirs, owners), on the
property back to the origional issue of patent.
Discover the chain of assigns pertinent to your
portion of the land patent and attach to your
Declaration of Land Patent.

5 Prepare a Declaration of Land Patent and update it in
one name. It cannot be updated in two names**. Other
equitable arrangements can be made to further
sub-divide the ownership or allodial title of the
property, or it could be put into a trust. Declaration
of Land Patents must be updated in the name of a real
individual, not a legal fiction. No legal "persons"
are allowed to hold title to property, you cannot
allodialize property in the name of a trust,
corporation, or non-profit.

6 Record the Declaration of Land Patent in either your
county recorder's office, register of deeds, or with
the bureau of records and conveyances of your common
law court. Notorize or witness all documents. Do not
send checks or federal reserve notes, use lawful
money, gold or silver; because conveying title with
negiotiable instruments voids the allodial title.

7 After filing, send a copy by certified mail return
reciept requested as a Notice of Declaration of Land
Patent to your bank or mortgage company, or to any
parties with equitable interest in your property
including the county tax assessor.

8 An alternate method to notice the other parties would
be to publish a Notice of Declaration of Land Patent
in a legal publication in your county (once a week for
3 weeks, or for the full 60 days.)

9 Post Notice of Declaration of Land Patent at the 4
corners of your property and leave them posted for 60
days (witnessed)

10 They have 60 days to challenge your claim to the
allodial title, or forever keep their silence. An
allodial title is the highest title to property.


*This step may be lawfully avoided due to the fact that
there is no lawful currency. Without a lawful currency
of Gold and Silver it is completely impossible to pay
debts, a debt cannot be “paid“ with a Federal Reserve
Note which doesn’t even meet the minimum requirements
for a promissory note and isn‘t redeemable. Therefore
since you have an absolute right to remedy and relief,
the law must absolve any debts, it cannot require that
which is impossible, especially when the problem is
their fault. So if you wish to peruse this avenue, just
start a prima-facie case by entering a simple affidavit
stating that due to congressional mischief and the
negligence of your state you are insolvent and unable to
lawfully pay debts. If you want a detailed affidavit on
this subject you can contact me and I will write one up
for you, for free!

**A husband and wife are one and they may act as one,
provided they were married under the anglo-saxon
common-law. Those “married” with a marriage license are
not recognized as one by common-law because they have
entered into a contract with three parties, the husband,
the wife, and the state; the state being the primary
party in the contract. Contact me for more information.

Source: http://fightingforliberty.org/content/view/49/26/


For the guys that have researched this more than me, does this sound right?

[Book]

Source: http://fightingforliberty.org/content/view/49/26/

For the guys that have researched this more than me, does this sound right?



Your link appears to be broken but leads back to THIS (http://fightingforliberty.org/hc3.asp) website. Basically this article you posted concludes with:

This method is rarely used so it has little track
record. However, it is based upon sound law and I invite
you to try it out on your real property. Let me know how
it goes!

Appears to be a wet dream for vexatious litigants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vexatious_litigation) or a trap for the naive to get themselves into Taxation trouble and then need a real tax lawyer.

Think about this Ares: Ask a clerk to simply change the word "residential" to "private" and thereafter live tax-free? Really?

:oo-->

[Ares]

Think about this Ares: Ask a clerk to simply change the word "residential" to "private" and thereafter live tax-free? Really?

It would make sense in context with the entirely different language known as Legalese.

Most people don't know legal definitions or keep Blacks Law Dictionary on hand as they are going about their day to day activities.

Why I brought it here, incase someone has heard/read or tried any of the above and can offer some perspective.

Update: Here's a different link that is refering to that article.

http://www.1215.org/lawnotes/work-in-progress/landpatent/landpatent-propertytax.txt

[7th trump]

Source: http://fightingforliberty.org/content/view/49/26/

For the guys that have researched this more than me, does this sound right?



Your link appears to be broken but leads back to THIS (http://fightingforliberty.org/hc3.asp) website. Basically this article you posted concludes with:

This method is rarely used so it has little track
record. However, it is based upon sound law and I invite
you to try it out on your real property. Let me know how
it goes!

Appears to be a wet dream for vexatious litigants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vexatious_litigation) or a trap for the naive to get themselves into Taxation trouble and then need a real tax lawyer.

Think about this Ares: Ask a clerk to simply change the word "residential" to "private" and thereafter live tax-free? Really?

:oo-->

Spoken like a true experienced socialist right Book?

[7th trump]

Think about this Ares: Ask a clerk to simply change the word "residential" to "private" and thereafter live tax-free? Really?

It would make sense in context with the entirely different language known as Legalese.

Most people don't know legal definitions or keep Blacks Law Dictionary on hand as they are going about their day to day activities.

Why I brought it here, incase someone has heard/read or tried any of the above and can offer some perspective.

Update: Here's a different link that is refering to that article.

http://www.1215.org/lawnotes/work-in-progress/landpatent/landpatent-propertytax.txt

Hey book if you think.............wait a minute you didnt answer my simple questions from another thread over Jetsgraphics ability to move or silence the court over dictating what he should be paying for CS.....................what do you know anyway?
You have proven you will not answer any questions when posed but yet here you are scaring everyone into thinking you cannot read the law for yourself. Thge government has the best interest for you.......what a bunch of horse biskets.
1215.org is a great site to visit and Mr. Thornton doesnt pay income taxes and the IRS and DOJ leaves him alone..................gee I wonder why Book? Any idea's why?...

[horseshoe3]

The constitution makes it very clear that private property can be taken for public use if just compensation is given. By this, it would appear that allodial title was never intended to exist in the US.

[mamboni]

Source: http://fightingforliberty.org/content/view/49/26/

For the guys that have researched this more than me, does this sound right?



Your link appears to be broken but leads back to THIS (http://fightingforliberty.org/hc3.asp) website. Basically this article you posted concludes with:

This method is rarely used so it has little track
record. However, it is based upon sound law and I invite
you to try it out on your real property. Let me know how
it goes!

Appears to be a wet dream for vexatious litigants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vexatious_litigation) or a trap for the naive to get themselves into Taxation trouble and then need a real tax lawyer.

Think about this Ares: Ask a clerk to simply change the word "residential" to "private" and thereafter live tax-free? Really?

:oo-->


You tell him, Boss!

[Book]

Why I brought it here, in case someone has heard/read or tried any of the above and can offer some perspective.



Ask the previous owners of THESE (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&biw=1280&bih=525&q=tax%20assessor%20sale&gbv=2&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw) homes how not paying their property taxes worked out for them. They can offer a more realistic "perspective" than 7th Trump or other online forum legal experts on taking on The Man...lol.

:)

[7th trump]

Why I brought it here, in case someone has heard/read or tried any of the above and can offer some perspective.



Ask the previous owners of THESE (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&biw=1280&bih=525&q=tax%20assessor%20sale&gbv=2&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw) homes how not paying their property taxes worked out for them. They can offer a more realistic "perspective" than 7th Trump or other online forum legal experts on taking on The Man...lol.

:)

Property for taxation are put in a register which is at the county assessors office.
How did it ever get in the register Book?
This "registery" didnt exists back in the early 1800's nor 1900's as far as my research goes.
What is a "registery" any way Book?

I'll clue you in a bit.........."mortgage"!
Know what a mortgage is and "only" who can get them?

[Book]

Hey book if you think.............wait a minute you didnt answer my simple questions from another thread over Jetsgraphics ability to move or silence the court over dictating what he should be paying for CS.....................what do you know anyway?



Jetgraphics refused in that thread to tell us:

1) How much time he spent in jail.

2) If he can visit his kids.

3) If he can get a drivers license or passport.

4) How much Child Support he still owes his ex-wife.

Instead he wants us to send unreported "$35 cash only" or "three silver dollars" to his post office box to buy his how-to book...lol.

:D

[Ares]

Why I brought it here, in case someone has heard/read or tried any of the above and can offer some perspective.



Ask the previous owners of THESE (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&biw=1280&bih=525&q=tax%20assessor%20sale&gbv=2&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw) homes how not paying their property taxes worked out for them. They can offer a more realistic "perspective" than 7th Trump or other online forum legal experts on taking on The Man...lol.

:)


That still doesn't answer the question though, you just linked an assesor tax sale. Did the people default due to ohh I don't know, losing their job? Or were they actively searching for a way to avoid paying or funding a system they do not believe in?

The author of the piece brings up some interesting points as far as county register and what can legally be taxed.

[Book]

1215.org is a great site to visit and Mr. Thornton doesnt pay income taxes and the IRS and DOJ leaves him alone...



Apparently Mr. Thornton does pays client-finder fees to online salesman...lol.

;)

[7th trump]

Hey book if you think.............wait a minute you didnt answer my simple questions from another thread over Jetsgraphics ability to move or silence the court over dictating what he should be paying for CS.....................what do you know anyway?



Jetgraphics refused in that thread to tell us:

1) How much time he spent in jail.
(he told you how much time, do the math)
2) If he can visit his kids.
(doesnt matter if he can. The point was he silenced the court)

3) If he can get a drivers license or passport.
(you cannot get a sdrivers license without a ssn. passports you can)

4) How much Child Support he still owes his ex-wife.
(He silenced the court to determine that so I bet none)

Instead he wants us to send unreported "$35 cash only" or "three silver dollars" to his post office box to buy his how-to book...lol.
( as compared to hearing you socialist view?)

:D

[7th trump]

1215.org is a great site to visit and Mr. Thornton doesnt pay income taxes and the IRS and DOJ leaves him alone...



Apparently Mr. Thornton does pays client-finder fees to online salesman...lol.

;)



So what does that have to do with the IRS leaving him alone and not paying taxes?
Or is this your smear campaign MR Quatloos?

[7th trump]

Why I brought it here, in case someone has heard/read or tried any of the above and can offer some perspective.



Ask the previous owners of THESE (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&biw=1280&bih=525&q=tax%20assessor%20sale&gbv=2&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw) homes how not paying their property taxes worked out for them. They can offer a more realistic "perspective" than 7th Trump or other online forum legal experts on taking on The Man...lol.

:)


That still doesn't answer the question though, you just linked an assesor tax sale. Did the people default due to ohh I don't know, losing their job? Or were they actively searching for a way to avoid paying or funding a system they do not believe in?

The author of the piece brings up some interesting points as far as county register and what can legally be taxed.

You will never a get a straight answer from Book except his socialist comments.

[Book]

Did the people default due to ohh I don't know, losing their job? Or were they actively searching for a way to avoid paying or funding a system they do not believe in?



http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Uploads/Graphics/173-0607120520-police_dees.jpg

They don't "believe" in the system until it punches them in the face...lol. Go ahead...get cute with the Assessor's Office and tell them that some internet legal expert told you your house is "private" and not "residential" so you ain't paying the property tax...lol.

:ROFL:

[Ares]

You will never a get a straight answer from Book except his socialist comments.

I'm begining to see that. I'll continue to dig into the subject matter and see what I come up with. I really DESPISE my city/county and know that their life blood is my property tax. IF I can opt out and show others how to do so, I will love to see them cut the spending and stupidity that they are so known for.

Besides that the school system is the worst in the state yet recieves a good chunk of change for the worthless teachers unions who teach these kids absolutely nothing of value.

[Ares]

They don't "believe" in the system until it punches them in the face...lol. Go ahead...get cute with the Assessor's Office and tell them that some internet legal expert told you your house is "private" and not "residential" so you ain't paying the property tax...lol.

Better than doing nothing and just going along to get along with the status quo.

[7th trump]

Did the people default due to ohh I don't know, losing their job? Or were they actively searching for a way to avoid paying or funding a system they do not believe in?



http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Uploads/Graphics/173-0607120520-police_dees.jpg

They don't "believe" in the system until it punches them in the face...lol. Go ahead...get cute with the Assessor's Office and tell them that some internet legal expert told you your house is "private" and not "residential" so you ain't paying the property tax...lol.

:ROFL:



Here ya go Ares.........................Books famous replies to scare you back into the system like any good socialist does.
Book doesnt answer any questions because he doesnt know the law. And Book sure as hell doesnt want you to go looking in the law for yourself because the courts, against Books beleif, says ignorance of the law is no excuse. So beleive Book or learn what the courts want you to know.

[Book]

I really DESPISE my city/county and know that their life blood is my property tax...



Join the club. Everybody agrees with your comment.

:)

[cedarchopper]

Why I brought it here, in case someone has heard/read or tried any of the above and can offer some perspective.



Ask the previous owners of THESE (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&biw=1280&bih=525&q=tax%20assessor%20sale&gbv=2&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw) homes how not paying their property taxes worked out for them. They can offer a more realistic "perspective" than 7th Trump or other online forum legal experts on taking on The Man...lol.

:)


I want to point out your blatant hypocrisy and tendency for dishonestly, Book. When I linked to Google for sources refuting your disinfo on another thread, you called it Joogle and did a cute little search play using Disney to replace Israel and claiming the same result, BUT NOW, you use Joogle to support your point!!!!LOL

"Quote
Here are some links for you Book, just like you asked.

Um change your "israel" to 'Disneyland" search and the same appears:

SAME JOOGLE SEARCH"

[BabushkaLady]

Why I brought it here, in case someone has heard/read or tried any of the above and can offer some perspective.



Ask the previous owners of THESE (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&biw=1280&bih=525&q=tax%20assessor%20sale&gbv=2&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw) homes how not paying their property taxes worked out for them. They can offer a more realistic "perspective" than 7th Trump or other online forum legal experts on taking on The Man...lol.

:)

Property for taxation are put in a register which is at the county assessors office.
How did it ever get in the register Book?
This "registery" didnt exists back in the early 1800's nor 1900's as far as my research goes.
What is a "registery" any way Book?

I'll clue you in a bit.........."mortgage"!
Know what a mortgage is and "only" who can get them?


Are you talking about the Register of Deeds Book?

All property is listed, even without a "mortgage". It's referring to ownership. Or are you talking about something else?

[7th trump]

They don't "believe" in the system until it punches them in the face...lol. Go ahead...get cute with the Assessor's Office and tell them that some internet legal expert told you your house is "private" and not "residential" so you ain't paying the property tax...lol.

Better than doing nothing and just going along to get along with the status quo.

Kuddos to you Ares!
Go to your city assessors office and ask for help in seeing the law that gives them authority. They'll be more than happy to point to the statutes at large. Research it from there.

[Book]

Better than doing nothing and just going along to get along with the status quo.



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/Don_Quijote_and_Sancho_Panza.jpg

Don Quixote de La Mancha and Sancho Panza, 1863

:oo-->

[Ares]

Go to your city assessors office and ask for help in seeing the law that gives them authority. They'll be more than happy to point to the statutes at large. Research it from there.

I plan on it. I'll do what the piece instructed, but after I get all the codes and definitions I need to support my case. Then I'll write the letter and inform them of the error.

Property tax law from my reading so far is actually pretty simple. Even simpler if you own your property outright (i.e. no mortgage) for those of us who have a mortgage just have to do a little more research.

[7th trump]

Why I brought it here, in case someone has heard/read or tried any of the above and can offer some perspective.



Ask the previous owners of THESE (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&biw=1280&bih=525&q=tax%20assessor%20sale&gbv=2&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw) homes how not paying their property taxes worked out for them. They can offer a more realistic "perspective" than 7th Trump or other online forum legal experts on taking on The Man...lol.

:)

Property for taxation are put in a register which is at the county assessors office.
How did it ever get in the register Book?
This "registery" didnt exists back in the early 1800's nor 1900's as far as my research goes.
What is a "registery" any way Book?

I'll clue you in a bit.........."mortgage"!
Know what a mortgage is and "only" who can get them?


Are you talking about the Register of Deeds Book?

All property is listed, even without a "mortgage". It's referring to ownership. Or are you talking about something else?

It was the mortgage amongst other ways that initially put all property in the registery as it was sold and bought.
If you had property paid and bought for and you signed up for Social Security your property went on the registery because as a federal US citizen for applying for federal benefits you gave up property rights for paying the national debt.
Research mortgage to see what it actually is.

[Book]

Why I brought it here, in case someone has heard/read or tried any of the above and can offer some perspective.



Ask the previous owners of THESE (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&biw=1280&bih=525&q=tax%20assessor%20sale&gbv=2&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw) homes how not paying their property taxes worked out for them. They can offer a more realistic "perspective" than 7th Trump or other online forum legal experts on taking on The Man...lol.

:)

Property for taxation are put in a register which is at the county assessors office.
How did it ever get in the register Book?
This "registery" didnt exists back in the early 1800's nor 1900's as far as my research goes.
What is a "registery" any way Book?

I'll clue you in a bit.........."mortgage"!
Know what a mortgage is and "only" who can get them?


Are you talking about the Register of Deeds Book?

All property is listed, even without a "mortgage". It's referring to ownership. Or are you talking about something else?


7th Trump post that....not me BabushkaLady.

:)

[7th trump]

Better than doing nothing and just going along to get along with the status quo.



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/Don_Quijote_and_Sancho_Panza.jpg

Don Quixote de La Mancha and Sancho Panza, 1863

:oo-->

Thats funny Book. A lawyer socialist goes by that addy (Quixote) over at quatloos.

[StackerKen]

I had to pay a hefty school tax when I Bought the permit to build my house.

[Ares]

It was the mortgage amongst other ways that initially put all property in the registery as it was sold and bought.
If you had property paid and bought for and you signed up for Social Security your property went on the registery because as a federal US citizen for applying for federal benefits you gave up property rights for paying the national debt.
Research mortgage to see what it actually is.

You bring up an interesting point there. If I have a mortgage on the house (I do) does the re-classification not work since I would according to the law be a "resident" since I'm considered a federal citizen? (U.S. Citizen)

Or is the property re-classification with the county recorder more to do with the state and local level and you're just correcting their "error" in the classification of your property?

[7th trump]

It was the mortgage amongst other ways that initially put all property in the registery as it was sold and bought.
If you had property paid and bought for and you signed up for Social Security your property went on the registery because as a federal US citizen for applying for federal benefits you gave up property rights for paying the national debt.
Research mortgage to see what it actually is.

You bring up an interesting point there. If I have a mortgage on the house (I do) does the re-classification not work since I would according to the law be a "resident" since I'm considered a federal citizen? (U.S. Citizen)

Or is the property re-classification with the county recorder more to do with the state and local level and you're just correcting their "error" in the classification of your property?

All I know Ares is that this alliodal property thingy doesnt work if theres a mortgage against it.
Its like Jet says: "quit consenting to the government" and a mortgage is just that.
Take your mortgage interest for example. Do you think you can deduct it if you were not a person liable?
Its all linked together.

[7th trump]

I had to pay a hefty school tax when I Bought the permit to build my house.

How much did they nail you for?

[Ares]

All I know Ares is that this alliodal property thingy doesnt work if theres a mortgage against it.
Its like Jet says: "quit consenting to the government" and a mortgage is just that.
Take your mortgage interest for example. Do you think you can deduct it if you were not a person liable?
Its all linked together.

True, which brings up a whole different thing people think I'm crazy for. If I have a child I will NOT get them a social slavery number. Then I'm told that "You won't be able to get a tax break if you do that." To which I reply, my kid means more to me than a tax incentive. I'm sorry you view yours nothing more than a piggy bank to be exploited.

[BabushkaLady]

7th Trump post that....not me BabushkaLady.

:)


I know! Sorry--caught the entire quote. But it was still in context, no? :)

[Book]

I had to pay a hefty school tax when I Bought the permit to build my house.



Dang...7th Trump lives in a world where the schools are, like, totally cost free. They just build themselves!

:D

[Book]

I know! Sorry--caught the entire quote. But it was still in context, no? :)



|--0--| We cool...lol.

[StackerKen]

I had to pay a hefty school tax when I Bought the permit to build my house.

How much did they nail you for?


It was six years ago so I can't remember off the top of my head...Im thinking it was around 8k maybe more.
It was the biggest part of the permit. They charge by the sq. ft. My house is only 1800sq ft

[BabushkaLady]

It was the mortgage amongst other ways that initially put all property in the registery as it was sold and bought.
If you had property paid and bought for and you signed up for Social Security your property went on the registery because as a federal US citizen for applying for federal benefits you gave up property rights for paying the national debt.
Research mortgage to see what it actually is.


Do you have a link to start from? Every search I'm coming up with is referring to a loan or agreement til death.

[Ares]

It was the mortgage amongst other ways that initially put all property in the registery as it was sold and bought.
If you had property paid and bought for and you signed up for Social Security your property went on the registery because as a federal US citizen for applying for federal benefits you gave up property rights for paying the national debt.
Research mortgage to see what it actually is.


Do you have a link to start from? Every search I'm coming up with is referring to a loan or agreement til death.


Maybe this will help

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/mortgage

[undgrd]

I just wanted to comment on something Book said. I'm paraphrasing but, it was something about not paying your property taxes and seeing how that worked out for others. I didn't notice anyone write about not paying. I did notice most of what was written regarded simply not receiving a bill once the property was setup private as opposed to commercial.

I'm very interested in this topic. Any additional information provided would be greatly appreciated!

[Ares]

I just wanted to comment on something Book said. I'm paraphrasing but, it was something about not paying your property taxes and seeing how that worked out for others. I didn't notice anyone write about not paying. I did notice most of what was written regarded simply not receiving a bill once the property was setup private as opposed to commercial.

I'm very interested in this topic. Any additional information provided would be greatly appreciated!


My understanding, and I'm going to research this further per the original post. I'm going to request the legal statutes and codes that require me to pay property tax at the local level. I'll go and see if the author is correct that you can change your property statues from residential to private.

[Book]

I just wanted to comment on something Book said. I'm paraphrasing but, it was something about not paying your property taxes and seeing how that worked out for others. I didn't notice anyone write about not paying. I did notice most of what was written regarded simply not receiving a bill once the property was setup private as opposed to commercial.

I'm very interested in this topic. Any additional information provided would be greatly appreciated!


My understanding, and I'm going to research this further per the original post. I'm going to request the legal statutes and codes that require me to pay property tax at the local level. I'll go and see if the author is correct that you can change your property statues from residential to private.



Be sure to report back to us Ares if the result is you no longer are required to pay any property taxes on your home.

:)

[undgrd]

Please report back REGARDLESS of the results

[Ares]

While searching on-line at my county property tax assessment page. Here are my search options.

Agricultural
Commercial
Exempt
Residential
Mineral Rights
Utility

Exempt mean private?? So what's with the exemptions I thought everyone had to pay? ;)

[StackerKen]

Be sure to report back to us Ares if the result is you no longer are required to pay any property taxes on your home.

:)


Yes Please do that Ares
And thanks for checking into this

[Ares]

Yes Please do that Ares
And thanks for checking into this

I plan on going down to my assessors office and requesting the information the author had asked that anyone look into. The statutes and codes that give them the jurisdiction to tax your property.

[7th trump]

While searching on-line at my county property tax assessment page. Here are my search options.

Agricultural
Commercial
Exempt
Residential
Mineral Rights
Utility

Exempt mean private?? So what's with the exemptions I thought everyone had to pay? ;)

You might find churches may be exempt.

[7th trump]

Yes Please do that Ares
And thanks for checking into this

I plan on going down to my assessors office and requesting the information the author had asked that anyone look into. The statutes and codes that give them the jurisdiction to tax your property.

Thats what I did. Told me everything I needed to know as far as where to look, statute wise.
Followed it all the way to the 14th amendment" US citizen" or aka 5USC 552(a)(13).

[Book]

Yes Please do that Ares
And thanks for checking into this

I plan on going down to my assessors office and requesting the information the author had asked that anyone look into. The statutes and codes that give them the jurisdiction to tax your property.

Thats what I did. Told me everything I needed to know as far as where to look, statute wise.
Followed it all the way to the 14th amendment" US citizen" or aka 5USC 552(a)(13).


Please post your EVIDENCE proving that you no longer are required to pay property taxes on your home.

:D

[undgrd]

Yes Please do that Ares
And thanks for checking into this

I plan on going down to my assessors office and requesting the information the author had asked that anyone look into. The statutes and codes that give them the jurisdiction to tax your property.

Thats what I did. Told me everything I needed to know as far as where to look, statute wise.
Followed it all the way to the 14th amendment" US citizen" or aka 5USC 552(a)(13).


Please post your EVIDENCE proving that you no longer are required to pay property taxes on your home.

:D


If I understand 7th post correctly, you may have to find a way out of the legal definition of citizenship...I'm guessing this means finding a way out of eligibility for SS, Medicare, and Medicade

[7th trump]

Yes Please do that Ares
And thanks for checking into this

I plan on going down to my assessors office and requesting the information the author had asked that anyone look into. The statutes and codes that give them the jurisdiction to tax your property.

Thats what I did. Told me everything I needed to know as far as where to look, statute wise.
Followed it all the way to the 14th amendment" US citizen" or aka 5USC 552(a)(13).


Please post your EVIDENCE proving that you no longer are required to pay property taxes on your home.

:D
Amswer those simple questions I posed to you on another thread.

[UFM]

you can opt out by renting

[Ares]

If I understand 7th post correctly, you may have to find a way out of the legal definition of citizenship...I'm guessing this means finding a way out of eligibility for SS, Medicare, and Medicade

That's what I understood as well. Hopefully that's not the case. Guess I'll find out when I go to my assessors office tomorrow over my lunch break.

[Phoenix]

I will pay good money for the video of the arrival of the Sheriff to boot out, by force, any DUMB-ASS who thinks they can just stop paying property taxes by filing some idiot's "legal documents."

I imagine others will do so, too.

So, if anyone wants to try this scheme, please, make sure you've got a video camera available, and we'll forward you some money, so you can afford the hotel room the night of the Arrival.

[7th trump]

Yes Please do that Ares
And thanks for checking into this

I plan on going down to my assessors office and requesting the information the author had asked that anyone look into. The statutes and codes that give them the jurisdiction to tax your property.

Thats what I did. Told me everything I needed to know as far as where to look, statute wise.
Followed it all the way to the 14th amendment" US citizen" or aka 5USC 552(a)(13).


Please post your EVIDENCE proving that you no longer are required to pay property taxes on your home.

:D


If I understand 7th post correctly, you may have to find a way out of the legal definition of citizenship...I'm guessing this means finding a way out of eligibility for SS, Medicare, and Medicade

You got it!
Theres no requirement for anyone to participate in Social Security.........none!
There is only a certain type of "person" that was freed in 1865 that fits the legislation that brought forth the "US citizen".
Whites have a choice to make that decision to volunteer into the social system. See 42USC 1982, 1983 and 1984 about what they are garanteed to enjoy as whites do.


TITLE 42 > CHAPTER 21 > SUBCHAPTER I > § 1982
§ 1982. Property rights of citizens
How Current is This? All citizens of the United States shall have the same right, in every State and Territory, as is enjoyed by white citizens thereof to inherit, purchase, lease, sell, hold, and convey real and personal property
I asked Book in another thread to see this statute..................he never did as usual.

[undgrd]

If I understand 7th post correctly, you may have to find a way out of the legal definition of citizenship...I'm guessing this means finding a way out of eligibility for SS, Medicare, and Medicade

That's what I understood as well. Hopefully that's not the case. Guess I'll find out when I go to my assessors office tomorrow over my lunch break.


If I was able to attain the "op out" status, I would not seek compensation for the years I've contributed. Granted, I'm in my early 30's and haven't contributed as much as others but, it would be worth it in my opinion.

[Book]

Yes Please do that Ares
And thanks for checking into this

I plan on going down to my assessors office and requesting the information the author had asked that anyone look into. The statutes and codes that give them the jurisdiction to tax your property.

Thats what I did. Told me everything I needed to know as far as where to look, statute wise.
Followed it all the way to the 14th amendment" US citizen" or aka 5USC 552(a)(13).


Please post your EVIDENCE proving that you no longer are required to pay property taxes on your home.

:D
Amswer those simple questions I posed to you on another thread.


http://healthhabits.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/myth-busted.jpg

NO EVIDENCE. NO PROOF.

:D

[undgrd]

Yes Please do that Ares
And thanks for checking into this

I plan on going down to my assessors office and requesting the information the author had asked that anyone look into. The statutes and codes that give them the jurisdiction to tax your property.

Thats what I did. Told me everything I needed to know as far as where to look, statute wise.
Followed it all the way to the 14th amendment" US citizen" or aka 5USC 552(a)(13).


Please post your EVIDENCE proving that you no longer are required to pay property taxes on your home.

:D


If I understand 7th post correctly, you may have to find a way out of the legal definition of citizenship...I'm guessing this means finding a way out of eligibility for SS, Medicare, and Medicade

You got it!
Theres no requirement for anyone to participate in Social Security.........none!
There is only a certain type of "person" that was freed in 1865 that fits the legislation that brought forth the "US citizen".
Whites have a choice to make that decision to volunteer into the social system. See 42USC 1982, 1983 and 1984 about what they are garanteed to enjoy as whites do.


Now, let me ask you this. This there anywhere in the constitution that decrees a "person" being a white land owner? If not, I would think there isn't a court in the land that would deny a non-white person the same rights this day and age.

[Phoenix]

you cannot get a sdrivers license without a ssn. passports you can


You are WRONG, as usual.

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/79955.pdf

[7th trump]

Yes Please do that Ares
And thanks for checking into this

I plan on going down to my assessors office and requesting the information the author had asked that anyone look into. The statutes and codes that give them the jurisdiction to tax your property.

Thats what I did. Told me everything I needed to know as far as where to look, statute wise.
Followed it all the way to the 14th amendment" US citizen" or aka 5USC 552(a)(13).


Please post your EVIDENCE proving that you no longer are required to pay property taxes on your home.

:D
Amswer those simple questions I posed to you on another thread.


http://healthhabits.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/myth-busted.jpg

NO EVIDENCE. NO PROOF.

:D

What myth?
I never said anything about no myth. All I said was go to your city assessors office and ask to see the statute authorizing them.........thats all!
And on the contrary you show your proof?

[Book]

I never said anything about...



Exactly. You pay your property taxes just like the rest of us "socialists".

:oo-->

[UFM]

no as number no legal job. u want to live like a illegal? wait till theyx get ridda da cash!

[ximmy]

Every now and then a trumpet sounds with a high pitched proclamation... Cover your ears folks... ;D

[7th trump]

you cannot get a sdrivers license without a ssn. passports you can


You are WRONG, as usual.

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/79955.pdf

No, you two dont read nothing at all do you. Not very good socialist are you.
Anyway the application says this:


1. PROOF OF U.S. CITIZENSHIP
a. APPLICANTS BORN IN THE UNITED STATES: Submit a previous U.S. passport or certified birth certificate. A birth certificate must include your full name, ( Nobody is required to get or have a ssn. And logic tell you if you are 22 and never had applied for a ssn a BIRTH CERTIFICATE will suffice.)
the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such
records.
1) If the birth certificate was filed more than 1 year after the birth: It must be supported by evidence described in the next paragraph.
2) If no birth record exists: Submit a registrar’s notice to that effect. Also submit a combination of the following: an early baptismal or circumcision certificate,
hospital birth record, early census, school, or family Bible records (heres the old Common Law way of birth records. And the federal government still recognizes this as legal) , or newspapers or insurance files. Notarized affidavits of persons having knowledge
of your birth may be submitted in addition to at least one record listed above. Evidence should include your given name and surname, date and place
of birth, and the seal or other certification of the office (if customary) and the signature of the issuing official. Visit travel.state.gov for details.
b. APPLICANTS BORN OUTSIDE THE UNITED STATES: Submit a previous U.S. passport, Certificate of Naturalization, Certificate of Citizenship, Report of Birth
Abroad, or evidence described below.
1) If You Claim Citizenship Through Naturalization Of Parent(s): Submit the Certificate(s) of Naturalization of your parent(s), your foreign birth certificate,
and proof of your admission to the United States for permanent residence.
2) If You Claim Citizenship Through Birth Abroad To One U.S. Citizen Parent: Submit a Consular Report of Birth (Form FS–240), Certification of Birth (Form
DS–1350 or FS–545), or your foreign birth certificate, proof of citizenship of your parent, your parents’ marriage certificate, and an affidavit showing
all of your U.S. citizen parent’s periods and places of residence/physical presence in the United States and abroad before your birth.
3) If You Claim Citizenship Through Birth Abroad To Two U.S. Citizen Parents: Submit a Consular Report of Birth (Form FS–240), Certification of Birth (Form
DS–1350 or FS–545), or your foreign birth certificate, parents’ marriage certificate, proof of your parents’ citizenship, and an affidavit showing all of
your U.S. citizen parents’ periods and places of residence/physical presence in the United States and abroad before your birth.
4) If You Claim Citizenship Through Adoption by a U.S. Citizen Parent(s): Submit evidence of your permanent residence status, full and final adoption, and
your U.S. citizen parent(s) evidence of legal and physical custody. (Please note: Acquisition of U.S. citizenship for persons born abroad and adopted
only applies if the applicant was born on or after 02/27/1983.)
c. ADDITIONAL EVIDENCE: When necessary, we may ask you to provide additional evidence to establish your claim to U.S. citizenship.

Now if you read a little further on down to page 3 of this application you have this little IRS ditbit that really doesnt help you trying to be of any importance or have any creditabilty from this point on.


Section 6039E of the Internal Revenue Code (26 U.S.C. 6039E) requires you to provide your Social Security Number (SSN), if you have
one, when you apply for a U.S. passport or renewal of a U.S. passport. If you have not been issued a SSN, enter zeros in box #5 of this
form. If you are residing abroad, you must also provide the name of the foreign country in which you are residing. The Department of
State must provide your SSN and foreign residence information to the Department of Treasury. If you fail to provide the information, you
are subject to a $500 penalty enforced by the IRS. All questions on this matter should be directed to the nearest IRS office.

See you've made yourself into a complete idiot for not proof checking anything you've tried to pull to make me look like an idiot.

No ssn is required for a passport and end of story ;D ::) :-*

In your face!!!!!

[7th trump]

I never said anything about...



Exactly. You pay your property taxes just like the rest of us "socialists".

:oo-->





I never said I didnt now did I. How foolish you look now
Go back and reread what I posted that you so hastefully overlooked.
I have a mortgage and I never said I havent gotten out of paying property taxes.

To be truthful, I did for a while until the city sent a letter explaining there was a fault with the clerk at the city assessors office.

[willie pete]

Depending on your age or disability or veteran status and value of the property, it could put you in a situation as to not owe any property taxes

[Phoenix]

to make me look like an idiot.

No ssn is required for a passport and end of story ;D ::) :-*



26 U.S.C. 6039E. Information concerning resident status

(a) General rule

Notwithstanding any other provision of law, any individual who—

(1) applies for a United States passport (or a renewal thereof), or
(2) applies to be lawfully accorded the privilege of residing permanently in the United States as an immigrant in accordance with the immigration laws,
shall include with any such application a statement which includes the information described in subsection (b).

(b) Information to be provided

Information required under subsection (a) shall include—

(1) the taxpayer’s TIN (if any), [26 USC 6109(d) REQUIRES this to be the SSN for individuals]
(2) in the case of a passport applicant, any foreign country in which such individual is residing,
(3) in the case of an individual seeking permanent residence, information with respect to whether such individual is required to file a return of the tax imposed by chapter 1 for such individual’s most recent 3 taxable years, and
(4) such other information as the Secretary may prescribe.

(c) Penalty

Any individual failing to provide a statement required under subsection (a) shall be subject to a penalty equal to $500 for each such failure, unless it is shown that such failure is due to reasonable cause and not to willful neglect.


You would be guilty of PERJURY, as well, if you put down all zeroes. You are lying if you claim you have never been issued an SSN.

I declare under penalty of perjury all of the following: 1)I am a citizen or non-citizen national of the United States and have not, since acquiring U.S. citizenship or nationality, performed any of the acts listed under “Acts or Conditions” on the reverse side of this application (unless explanatory statement is attached); 2)the statements made on the application are true and correct; 3)I have not knowingly and willfully made false statements or included false documents in support of this application; 4)the photograph submitted with this application is a genuine, current, photograph of me; and 5)I have read and understood the warning on page two of the instructions to the application form.

[BillBoard]

You know, while reading this thread, I remember a friend of mine telling me that he didn't need a social security number to get a driver license. Another friend was fighting him tooth and nail insisting that he needed a SS number. Well here is the link to the section of the code that says that my first buddy was right

http://www.michie.com/newjersey/lpext.dll/uanjadmin/1/791b1/7d003/7d049/7d057?fn=document-frame.htm&f=templates&2.0#


§ 13:21-1.3 Mandatory disclosure of social security number


(a) An applicant for any special learner‘s permit, examination permit, driver license, commercial driver license or any endorsement thereto, or registration shall disclose his or her social security number(s) upon the application form furnished by the Chief Administrator of the Motor Vehicle Commission.

(b) A special learner‘s permit, examination permit, driver license, commercial driver license or any endorsement thereto, or registration shall not be issued unless the applicant therefor discloses his or her social security number(s) upon the application form.

(c) This section shall not apply to persons who are exempt from applying for a social security number.

[Phoenix]

(c) This section shall not apply to persons who are exempt from applying for a social security number.


I challenge you to take a friend in need of a New Jersey Driver's License to the local MVC (NJ DMV) office, with a video camera, and show us what happens. Tell them he's <a href="http://www.state.nj.us/mvc/pdf/Licenses/ident_ver_posterpint.pdf">"exempt" from applying for an SSN</a>.

I'll buy the popcorn.

[Ares]

I challenge you to take a friend in need of a New Jersey Driver's License to the local MVC (NJ DMV) office, with a video camera, and show us what happens. Tell them he's "exempt" from applying for an SSN.

I'll buy the popcorn.

You don't need a drivers license.

"The right of the citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, either by carriage or by automobile, is not a mere privilege which a city may prohibit or permit at will, but a common law right which he has under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Thompson v. Smith, 154 SE 579.

[Phoenix]

I challenge you to take a friend in need of a New Jersey Driver's License to the local MVC (NJ DMV) office, with a video camera, and show us what happens. Tell them he's "exempt" from applying for an SSN.

I'll buy the popcorn.

You don't need a drivers license.

"The right of the citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, either by carriage or by automobile, is not a mere privilege which a city may prohibit or permit at will, but a common law right which he has under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Thompson v. Smith, 154 SE 579.




Well, I'm happy to know that.

Tell you what, you can show me how dumb I really am by honoring this challenge.

Take a video camera, and go out driving tonight. Violate some innocuous malum prohibitum statute near a cop, so you get stopped. When he asks for your license, tell him you don't have one, and present him with the above court citation.

If you are right, and I am wrong, you will surely be willing to take this challenge, yes?

[Ares]

Well, I'm happy to know that.

Tell you what, you can show me how dumb I really am by honoring this challenge.

Take a video camera, and go out driving tonight. Violate some innocuous malum prohibitum statute near a cop, so you get stopped. When he asks for your license, tell him you don't have one, and present him with the above court citation.

If you are right, and I am wrong, you will surely be willing to take this challenge, yes?

I never called you dumb, and I've driven many many times with no license or vehicle registration. But again that was out in the rural area of my youth and there wasn't a "peace officer" within a 10 mile radius.

[cedarchopper]

you can opt out by renting


You can opt out by squatting, and make a deed claim under adverse possession.

[7th trump]

to make me look like an idiot.

No ssn is required for a passport and end of story ;D ::) :-*



26 U.S.C. 6039E. Information concerning resident status

(a) General rule

Notwithstanding any other provision of law, any individual who—

(1) applies for a United States passport (or a renewal thereof), or
(2) applies to be lawfully accorded the privilege of residing permanently in the United States as an immigrant in accordance with the immigration laws,
shall include with any such application a statement which includes the information described in subsection (b).

(b) Information to be provided

Information required under subsection (a) shall include—

(1) the taxpayer’s TIN (if any), [26 USC 6109(d) REQUIRES this to be the SSN for individuals]
(2) in the case of a passport applicant, any foreign country in which such individual is residing,
(3) in the case of an individual seeking permanent residence, information with respect to whether such individual is required to file a return of the tax imposed by chapter 1 for such individual’s most recent 3 taxable years, and
(4) such other information as the Secretary may prescribe.

(c) Penalty

Any individual failing to provide a statement required under subsection (a) shall be subject to a penalty equal to $500 for each such failure, unless it is shown that such failure is due to reasonable cause and not to willful neglect.


You would be guilty of PERJURY, as well, if you put down all zeroes. You are lying if you claim you have never been issued an SSN.

I declare under penalty of perjury all of the following: 1)I am a citizen or non-citizen national of the United States and have not, since acquiring U.S. citizenship or nationality, performed any of the acts listed under “Acts or Conditions” on the reverse side of this application (unless explanatory statement is attached); 2)the statements made on the application are true and correct; 3)I have not knowingly and willfully made false statements or included false documents in support of this application; 4)the photograph submitted with this application is a genuine, current, photograph of me; and 5)I have read and understood the warning on page two of the instructions to the application form.

What does this have to do with the passport for someone who doesnt have ssn?
You really dont read nor listen do you?
What does the bolded tell you?


Information required under subsection (a) shall include—

(1) the taxpayer’s TIN (if any), [26 USC 6109(d) REQUIRES this to be the SSN for individuals]
(2) in the case of a passport applicant, any foreign country in which such individual is residing,
You cant be serious can you?

[Ares]

I challenge you to take a friend in need of a New Jersey Driver's License to the local MVC (NJ DMV) office, with a video camera, and show us what happens. Tell them he's "exempt" from applying for an SSN.

I'll buy the popcorn.

You don't need a drivers license.

"The right of the citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, either by carriage or by automobile, is not a mere privilege which a city may prohibit or permit at will, but a common law right which he has under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Thompson v. Smith, 154 SE 579.




Well, I'm happy to know that.

Tell you what, you can show me how dumb I really am by honoring this challenge.

Take a video camera, and go out driving tonight. Violate some innocuous malum prohibitum statute near a cop, so you get stopped. When he asks for your license, tell him you don't have one, and present him with the above court citation.

If you are right, and I am wrong, you will surely be willing to take this challenge, yes?


Title 18, U.S.C., Section 242
Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law
This statute makes it a crime for any person acting under color of law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom to willfully deprive or cause to be deprived from any person those rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution and laws of the U.S.

This law further prohibits a person acting under color of law, statute, ordinance, regulation or custom to willfully subject or cause to be subjected any person to different punishments, pains, or penalties, than those prescribed for punishment of citizens on account of such person being an alien or by reason of his/her color or race.

Acts under "color of any law" include acts not only done by federal, state, or local officials within the bounds or limits of their lawful authority, but also acts done without and beyond the bounds of their lawful authority; provided that, in order for unlawful acts of any official to be done under "color of any law," the unlawful acts must be done while such official is purporting or pretending to act in the performance of his/her official duties. This definition includes, in addition to law enforcement officials, individuals such as Mayors, Council persons, Judges, Nursing Home Proprietors, Security Guards, etc., persons who are bound by laws, statutes ordinances, or customs.

Punishment varies from a fine or imprisonment of up to one year, or both, and if bodily injury results or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire shall be fined or imprisoned up to ten years or both, and if death results, or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.

[I am me, I am free]

When I filled out the application for a USA passport I put all zeros in the space for the SS#. No hiccups at all in getting the passport - I did the 3 day express deal where I appeared at the State Dept. office in Houston. If there had been an issue with putting all zeros in the space for the SS# I'm positive the clerk at the window would have immediately rejected it. She didn't.

A whole lot of infernal sheep-herding going on in this thread. I suppose misery loves company - more of the "ALL of us crabs are staying in this bucket TOGETHER!" meme. lol

And Phoenix/Quantum, I knew you were one in the same all along. Thx for the verification. Why do you persist in pretending??

[BabushkaLady]

It was the mortgage amongst other ways that initially put all property in the registery as it was sold and bought.
If you had property paid and bought for and you signed up for Social Security your property went on the registery because as a federal US citizen for applying for federal benefits you gave up property rights for paying the national debt.
Research mortgage to see what it actually is.


Do you have a link to start from? Every search I'm coming up with is referring to a loan or agreement til death.


Maybe this will help

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/mortgage


Thanks Ares, but that is basically the "borrower/lender" version. I got the feeling 7thtrump was referring to something else. I originally was pointing out that Owned property isn't Mortgaged earlier. So maybe we haven't gotten the rest of the information yet? I still haven't seen a link to the above statement.

[I am me, I am free]

BTW, FWIW a friend who lives in deep east Texas has studied the property tax issue for years, and is well versed in the subject. He asserts that in Texas the original intent of the legislation regarding property tax was to tax banks and corporations, and only banks and corporations. Suffice it to say he doesn't pay property taxes, and hasn't in years.

[Book]

I've driven many many times with no license or vehicle registration. But again that was out in the rural area of my youth and there wasn't a "peace officer" within a 10 mile radius.



Whew...I almost mailed "cash only" to some post office box to purchase a HOW TO DRIVE WITHOUT A LICENSE book...lol.

:ROFL:

[cedarchopper]

And Phoenix/Quantum, I knew you were one in the same all along. Thx for the verification. Why do you persist in pretending??


He only deludes himself...he was spotted immediately. PPT/Quantum/Phoenix...all is one, one is all. LOL

Just follow the pattern. He started out calm, now the level of agitation is increasing, the obsessiveness is climbing...soon, he will be in the full blown stage :]

[I am me, I am free]

And Phoenix/Quantum, I knew you were one in the same all along. Thx for the verification. Why do you persist in pretending??


He only deludes himself...he was spotted immediately. PPT/Quantum/Phoenix...all is one, one is all. LOL

Just follow the pattern. He started out calm, now the level of agitation is increasing, the obsessiveness is climbing...soon, he will be in the full blown stage :]


Yes, we're all familiar with the oh so predictable pattern. lol

[Book]

When I filled out the application for a USA passport...

A whole lot of infernal sheep-herding going on in this thread. I suppose misery loves company - more of the "ALL of us crabs are staying in this bucket TOGETHER!" meme. lol



http://lh5.ggpht.com/_9jGfkHJAAx8/Ss-4Ihw7q4I/AAAAAAAAAjs/pdVhXFlRFe0/kitten%20regards%20itself%20as%20lion_thumb%5B7%5D .jpg

You yourself did "fill out the application" wanting to simply exercise your god-given feet over the border...lol.

[I am me, I am free]

I realize it's very difficult for you Book, but do try not to be asinine.

If one wants to travel abroad, then one needs a passport. The point is, I obtained a passport without submitting a SS#, despite all the boogey man bullshit you espouse.

[Bigjon]

I had to pay a hefty school tax when I Bought the permit to build my house.



Dang...7th Trump lives in a world where the schoolspropaganda indoctrination centers are, like, totally cost free. They just build themselves!

:D

[7th trump]

I challenge you to take a friend in need of a New Jersey Driver's License to the local MVC (NJ DMV) office, with a video camera, and show us what happens. Tell them he's "exempt" from applying for an SSN.

I'll buy the popcorn.

You don't need a drivers license.

"The right of the citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, either by carriage or by automobile, is not a mere privilege which a city may prohibit or permit at will, but a common law right which he has under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Thompson v. Smith, 154 SE 579.



I'll one up Phoenix with this Ares:


(d) Obtaining a taxpayer identifying number —
(1) Social security number. Any individual required to furnish a social security number pursuant to paragraph (b) of this section shall apply for one, if he has not done so previously, on Form SS–5, which may be obtained from any Social Security Administration or Internal Revenue Service office. He shall make such application far enough in advance of the first required use of such number to permit issuance of the number in time for compliance with such requirement. The form, together with any supplementary statement, shall be prepared and filed in accordance with the form, instructions, and regulations applicable thereto, and shall set forth fully and clearly the data therein called for. Individuals who are ineligible for or do not wish to participate in the benefits of the social security program shall nevertheless obtain a social security number if they are required to furnish such a number pursuant to paragraph (b) of this section.

(2) Employer identification number —(i) In general. Any person required to furnish an employer identification number must apply for one, if not done so previously, on Form SS–4. A Form SS–4 may be obtained from any office of the Internal Revenue Service, U.S. consular office abroad, or

You see there is a huge violation in rights if the government can make you take a number.

[ximmy]

BTW, FWIW a friend who lives in deep east Texas has studied the property tax issue for years, and is well versed in the subject. He asserts that in Texas the original intent of the legislation regarding property tax was to tax banks and corporations, and only banks and corporations. Suffice it to say he doesn't pay property taxes, and hasn't in years.


there it is... the friend example... LOL :D
:ROFL:

[Phoenix]

BTW, FWIW a friend who lives in deep east Texas has studied the property tax issue for years, and is well versed in the subject. He asserts that in Texas the original intent of the legislation regarding property tax was to tax banks and corporations, and only banks and corporations. Suffice it to say he doesn't pay property taxes, and hasn't in years.


You wouldn't mind telling us city, county, and parcel number, would you? I'll be happy to call the county assessor's office (or whatever you call it down there in Texas), and find out more about this.

[7th trump]

I realize it's very difficult for you Book, but do try not to be asinine.

If one wants to travel abroad, then one needs a passport. The point is, I obtained a passport without submitting a SS#, despite all the boogey man bullsh*t you espouse.
Iam,
I just shown him the actual requirements on the form itself and he still doesnt beleive it.
Stupid is what stupid does I suppose....... :dunno

[7th trump]

BTW, FWIW a friend who lives in deep east Texas has studied the property tax issue for years, and is well versed in the subject. He asserts that in Texas the original intent of the legislation regarding property tax was to tax banks and corporations, and only banks and corporations. Suffice it to say he doesn't pay property taxes, and hasn't in years.


You wouldn't mind telling us city, county, and parcel number, would you? I'll be happy to call the county assessor's office (or whatever you call it down there in Texas), and find out more about this.

:laugh :laugh
Just like you called the City office here

[7th trump]

I suggest everyone report Book and Phoenix to the mods.

[Phoenix]

Well, I'm happy to know that.

Tell you what, you can show me how dumb I really am by honoring this challenge.

Take a video camera, and go out driving tonight. Violate some innocuous malum prohibitum statute near a cop, so you get stopped. When he asks for your license, tell him you don't have one, and present him with the above court citation.

If you are right, and I am wrong, you will surely be willing to take this challenge, yes?

I never called you dumb, and I've driven many many times with no license or vehicle registration. But again that was out in the rural area of my youth and there wasn't a "peace officer" within a 10 mile radius.


:ROFL:

You've got to be kidding?! THAT is what you assert as proof you can drive without a license?

[Phoenix]

When I filled out the application for a USA passport I put all zeros in the space for the SS#. No hiccups at all in getting the passport - I did the 3 day express deal where I appeared at the State Dept. office in Houston. If there had been an issue with putting all zeros in the space for the SS# I'm positive the clerk at the window would have immediately rejected it. She didn't.


This didn't happen.




And Phoenix/Quantum, I knew you were one in the same all along. Thx for the verification. Why do you persist in pretending??


I'm not going to claim I'm someone I'm not. Why do you persist in peddling the lie that you can operate above "the law"? You tell us you ignore a whole variety of laws without consequence, yet provide NO PROOF whatsoever...ever. We're just supposed to BELIEVE you.

[Book]

I suggest everyone report Book and Phoenix to the mods.


Ximmy is asking good questions too!

|--0--|

[Phoenix]

He only deludes himself...he was spotted immediately. PPT/Quantum/Phoenix...


You can't even get my previous username right, but you want to pretend you "spotted" me being someone I'm not?




Just follow the pattern. He started out calm, now the level of agitation is increasing, the obsessiveness is climbing...soon, he will be in the full blown stage :]


Are you still smarting from the beating in the Wikithread? Do you need a Popsicle?

[Phoenix]

Yes, we're all familiar with the oh so predictable pattern. lol


Yours? It's been patent falsehoods I've seen ever since I arrived at GIM; reading your bragging that you can render impotent any government official with some hocus-pocus.

Care to cite any court cases you've "won"? How about your parcel numbers, so we can ascertain how much property tax you don't pay? How about a VIN so we can check your automobile's non-registration?

[7th trump]

When I filled out the application for a USA passport I put all zeros in the space for the SS#. No hiccups at all in getting the passport - I did the 3 day express deal where I appeared at the State Dept. office in Houston. If there had been an issue with putting all zeros in the space for the SS# I'm positive the clerk at the window would have immediately rejected it. She didn't.


This didn't happen.









(THIS OUGHT TO GET GOOD NOW! PHOENIX CALLING IAM A LIAR. THE ALL KNOWING PHOENIX THAT IS)




And Phoenix/Quantum, I knew you were one in the same all along. Thx for the verification. Why do you persist in pretending??


I'm not going to claim I'm someone I'm not. Why do you persist in peddling the lie that you can operate above "the law"? You tell us you ignore a whole variety of laws without consequence, yet provide NO PROOF whatsoever...ever. We're just supposed to BELIEVE you.

[Phoenix]

When I filled out the application for a USA passport...

A whole lot of infernal sheep-herding going on in this thread. I suppose misery loves company - more of the "ALL of us crabs are staying in this bucket TOGETHER!" meme. lol



http://lh5.ggpht.com/_9jGfkHJAAx8/Ss-4Ihw7q4I/AAAAAAAAAjs/pdVhXFlRFe0/kitten%20regards%20itself%20as%20lion_thumb%5B7%5D .jpg

You yourself did "fill out the application" wanting to simply exercise your god-given feet over the border...lol.




He doesn't need a Driver's License, but needs a Passport? Why?

;D

[Phoenix]

I realize it's very difficult for you Book, but do try not to be asinine.

If one wants to travel abroad, then one needs a passport.


Why? If you can drive all over Texas without a license or registration, why can't you just go wherever you like without a passport? OR ARE YOU ADMITTING YOUR CLAIMS DO NOT WORK?




The point is, I obtained a passport without submitting a SS#


No you did not.

[Phoenix]

Just like you called the City office here


Oh, thanks for reminding me. I did, and they said you were full of shit. Nothing about "Federal law" - only the Code of Iowa.

[Phoenix]

I suggest everyone report Book and Phoenix to the mods.


Which posts? I'll do it myself, if you tell me which ones.

;D

[Phoenix]

(THIS OUGHT TO GET GOOD NOW! PHOENIX CALLING IAM A LIAR. THE ALL KNOWING PHOENIX THAT IS)


Sukhoi Fan is very predictable. He will continue to offer NO PROOF WHATSOEVER - "just believe me!" He will continue the personal insults - claiming I'm "Quantum," or a "sheep unable to escape from the Matrix," or maybe even a "Federal agent."

NO PROOF WHATSOEVER.

NO PROOF WHATSOEVER.

[cedarchopper]

He only deludes himself...he was spotted immediately. PPT/Quantum/Phoenix...


You can't even get my previous username right, but you want to pretend you "spotted" me being someone I'm not?




Just follow the pattern. He started out calm, now the level of agitation is increasing, the obsessiveness is climbing...soon, he will be in the full blown stage :]


Are you still smarting from the beating in the Wikithread? Do you need a Popsicle?


You are self congratulating...how hilarious! Do you really think you gave me a beating? You couldn't carry my jock strap in reality...but here you can pretend. Except you can't really...you run your mouth so uncontrollably that you show your disturbed personality.

PPT, your breakdown was very revealing of your fragile psyche. Like I said before, it was an internet classic. Your health issues, your wife breaking down, the seriousness you take of every little thing. You showed yourself for what you are...why don't we take this to Thunderdome, so we can be brutally honest?

[Hugginator]

[quote=I am me, I am free ]
I realize it's very difficult for you Book, but do try not to be asinine.

He can try, but I don't think it will happen.

:oo-->

[7th trump]

(THIS OUGHT TO GET GOOD NOW! PHOENIX CALLING IAM A LIAR. THE ALL KNOWING PHOENIX THAT IS)


Sukhoi Fan is very predictable. He will continue to offer NO PROOF WHATSOEVER - "just believe me!" He will continue the personal insults - claiming I'm "Quantum," or a "sheep unable to escape from the Matrix," or maybe even a "Federal agent."

NO PROOF WHATSOEVER.

NO PROOF WHATSOEVER.




ha...............LIKE YOU SHOW PROOF OF ANYTHING?

[7th trump]

I realize it's very difficult for you Book, but do try not to be asinine.

If one wants to travel abroad, then one needs a passport.


Why? If you can drive all over Texas without a license or registration, why can't you just go wherever you like without a passport? OR ARE YOU ADMITTING YOUR CLAIMS DO NOT WORK?




The point is, I obtained a passport without submitting a SS#


No you did not.

Why couldnt he?
The requirement says you dont have to have a ssn. Shyt the feds even say to put in zero's if you do not have a ssn.
Phoenix wheres the proof every American has to get a ssn?

[Phoenix]

He only deludes himself...he was spotted immediately. PPT/Quantum/Phoenix...


You can't even get my previous username right, but you want to pretend you "spotted" me being someone I'm not?




Just follow the pattern. He started out calm, now the level of agitation is increasing, the obsessiveness is climbing...soon, he will be in the full blown stage :]


Are you still smarting from the beating in the Wikithread? Do you need a Popsicle?


You are self congratulating...how hilarious! Do you really think you gave me a beating?


Why are you getting angry at Book and myself then? You're pissed, and everyone knows it.




You couldn't carry my jock strap in reality...but here you can pretend.


Is that the best you can do?




Except you can't really...you run your mouth so uncontrollably that you show your disturbed personality.


LOL




PPT


And AGAIN.




your breakdown was very revealing of your fragile psyche.


Out of respect for JQP, I'm not going to discuss that. I said that when I returned.




Like I said before, it was an internet classic. Your health issues, your wife breaking down, the seriousness you take of every little thing. You showed yourself for what you are...why don't we take this to Thunderdome, so we can be brutally honest?


Why don't we keep it here? Go for it, fire away. I'm not afraid of what you want to vomit out at me. If what you have to say is factual, open fire, here. Or is your "ammunition" baseless ad hominem, only? I suspect so, considering what you say in the above paragraph is half falsehood.

[Ares]

You've got to be kidding?! THAT is what you assert as proof you can drive without a license?

I didn't actually think I needed the :sarc: sig.

But apparently I did.

[Ares]

After going to my assessors office and pouring over the legalese garbage, I am stuck with the tax. Only because I can NOT reclassify my lot as I am part of a homeowners association. My "real estate parcel" is bonded to the other parcels in the association for "mutual benefit". With that key word there my property fits the legal definition of a residence and not a domicile as my parcel of land is attached to the others as was agreed to by the builder who developed the land. I.E. Commerce......

Maybe some of you who aren't in an HOA can get some benefit out of it. According to the assesors office you CAN change property classification according to Indiana code. Since I am stuck in an HOA I cannot change my parcels classification.

[StackerKen]

Thanks for the update Ares

You don't mind paying the HOA ?

[Ares]

Thanks for the update Ares

You don't mind paying the HOA ?


I can handle $30 FRN's a year. :)

[StackerKen]

Thanks for the update Ares

You don't mind paying the HOA ?


I can handle $30 FRN's a year. :)


Wow I guess so.
That is the lowest HOA fee Ive ever heard of.

Not bad

[Ares]

Wow I guess so.
That is the lowest HOA fee Ive ever heard of.

Not bad

No not too bad at all, the only thing the HOA is paying for is the sign maintenance and some insurance on the retention ponds.(You know in case some kid gets hurt or drowns. :oo--> ) Nothing else, and no one wants it to do anything else. Also extremely small HOA, only 44 homes.

[FreeEnergy]

Why do you persist in peddling the lie that you can operate above "the law"?


Because it is "the law", not The Law.

Because in a United States Socialist "Republic", laws have been created to a point that you cannot even breath without breaking some "statue".

When "the laws" become so asinine that there are opposing regulations (and in US with current court system everything is opposes to itself), the laws stop working. Then the only people who pretend to play by the rules are:
1. the dumb and brainwashed
2. the lawyers to milk the dumb, and
3. the "officials" to beat the sh*t out of, and to milk the dumb.

The "laws" stopped working in United States.


Pick yourself a niche, and dig in enough, and go to a person that handles that particular law. and you can find yourself an exemption, and live happily ever after. Unless "officials" do a sweep and decide to beat you to death, but then again that could happen to an innocent bystander.

Interesting time we live in.



He doesn't need a Driver's License, but needs a Passport? Why?

Passport is a travel document given by US government. In fact, you can get a passport without being a US citizen (they are called "US travel passports", and are light-blue color, I had one). You need a passport to be able to cross international borders, that's a given now everywhere.

US Driver's license you don't need to drive in US. You can have international driver's license, and in some instances I know of a person who isn't a citizen, and his US driver's license has been revoked for a DUI, and he has none and still drives. Since he's not a "citizen", cops can't really do much, every time he gets stopped he pays $100 ticket though. THat the REALITY, not some fantasy computer chat.

--
Me and my friends are currently advising my former countrymen who want to become a US citizen not to do that, in order to avoid serious taxation and legal issues US citizens are facing.
--

Ares, please do continue.

[Ares]

Ares, please do continue.
I believe at this point it's a lost cause due to my HOA.

[Phoenix]

You need a passport to be able to cross international borders, that's a given now everywhere.


Is that so?

http://burnpit.legion.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/illegal-aliens-crossing-fence21.jpg

::)




You can have international driver's license, and in some instances I know of a person who isn't a citizen, and his US driver's license has been revoked for a DUI, and he has none and still drives. Since he's not a "citizen", cops can't really do much


This is absolutely, 100% UNTRUE. Citizen with no license = jail. Non-citizen with no license = definitely jail.




every time he gets stopped he pays $100 ticket though.


LOL

Why pay it? After all, if you can just drive around, get stopped, and not get hauled in to a cage.




THat the REALITY, not some fantasy computer chat.


"Reality." I'm not going to laugh, since it's appearing that people have lost their fu*king minds on a scale far beyond my greatest fears.

[UFM]

I challenge you to take a friend in need of a New Jersey Driver's License to the local MVC (NJ DMV) office, with a video camera, and show us what happens. Tell them he's "exempt" from applying for an SSN.

I'll buy the popcorn.

You don't need a drivers license.

"The right of the citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, either by carriage or by automobile, is not a mere privilege which a city may prohibit or permit at will, but a common law right which he has under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Thompson v. Smith, 154 SE 579.




are you a do as i say not as i do man?

[UFM]

Well, I'm happy to know that.

Tell you what, you can show me how dumb I really am by honoring this challenge.

Take a video camera, and go out driving tonight. Violate some innocuous malum prohibitum statute near a cop, so you get stopped. When he asks for your license, tell him you don't have one, and present him with the above court citation.

If you are right, and I am wrong, you will surely be willing to take this challenge, yes?

I never called you dumb, and I've driven many many times with no license or vehicle registration. But again that was out in the rural area of my youth and there wasn't a "peace officer" within a 10 mile radius.


:ROFL:

You've got to be kidding?! THAT is what you assert as proof you can drive without a license?


sound like a vandal saying it legal to spraypaint buildings because he never been caught

[Ares]

I challenge you to take a friend in need of a New Jersey Driver's License to the local MVC (NJ DMV) office, with a video camera, and show us what happens. Tell them he's "exempt" from applying for an SSN.

I'll buy the popcorn.

You don't need a drivers license.

"The right of the citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, either by carriage or by automobile, is not a mere privilege which a city may prohibit or permit at will, but a common law right which he has under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Thompson v. Smith, 154 SE 579.




are you a do as i say not as i do man?


Just quoting a supreme court case. It's up to you to do the research I'm not telling you to do anything.

[Ares]

Well, I'm happy to know that.

Tell you what, you can show me how dumb I really am by honoring this challenge.

Take a video camera, and go out driving tonight. Violate some innocuous malum prohibitum statute near a cop, so you get stopped. When he asks for your license, tell him you don't have one, and present him with the above court citation.

If you are right, and I am wrong, you will surely be willing to take this challenge, yes?

I never called you dumb, and I've driven many many times with no license or vehicle registration. But again that was out in the rural area of my youth and there wasn't a "peace officer" within a 10 mile radius.


:ROFL:

You've got to be kidding?! THAT is what you assert as proof you can drive without a license?


sound like a vandal saying it legal to spraypaint buildings because he never been caught


And you sound like someone who doesn't do sarcasm very well.

[UFM]

I challenge you to take a friend in need of a New Jersey Driver's License to the local MVC (NJ DMV) office, with a video camera, and show us what happens. Tell them he's "exempt" from applying for an SSN.

I'll buy the popcorn.

You don't need a drivers license.

"The right of the citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, either by carriage or by automobile, is not a mere privilege which a city may prohibit or permit at will, but a common law right which he has under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Thompson v. Smith, 154 SE 579.




are you a do as i say not as i do man?


Just quoting a supreme court case. It's up to you to do the research I'm not telling you to do anything.


hit the bush! are you a licensed driver yes or no?

[UFM]

Well, I'm happy to know that.

Tell you what, you can show me how dumb I really am by honoring this challenge.

Take a video camera, and go out driving tonight. Violate some innocuous malum prohibitum statute near a cop, so you get stopped. When he asks for your license, tell him you don't have one, and present him with the above court citation.

If you are right, and I am wrong, you will surely be willing to take this challenge, yes?

I never called you dumb, and I've driven many many times with no license or vehicle registration. But again that was out in the rural area of my youth and there wasn't a "peace officer" within a 10 mile radius.


:ROFL:

You've got to be kidding?! THAT is what you assert as proof you can drive without a license?


sound like a vandal saying it legal to spraypaint buildings because he never been caught


And you sound like someone who doesn't do sarcasm very well.


we cant all be clowns

[Ares]

I assumed a clown like you would of picked up on the sarcasm. There I go again over estimating the intelligence of some of the members of this board. My apologies for over estimating yours it won't happen again.

[UFM]

I assumed a clown like you would of picked up on the sarcasm. There I go again over estimating the intelligence of some of the members of this board. My apologies for over estimating yours it won't happen again.


apology accepted. i never overestimated your intelligence. it is obvious you do not think before you speak.

[Phoenix]

hit the bush! are you a licensed driver yes or no?


OF COURSE he is! Just like Sukhoi Fan ("I am me, I am free"), just like jetgraphics, just like 7thTrump. They have incredible chutzpah to claim they can drive around without a driver's license or bona-fide license plate. They count on you being just plain DUMB, to believe such garbage.

[Ares]

You 2 sure stretched a supreme court case a long way. Of course I have a drivers license. I also have a Lien against my vehicle, so the bank currently owns it.

Don't put words or actions to my quoting a supreme court case. I assume you're both adults? If so do your own due diligence.

[UFM]

Of course I have a drivers license.

you are a hypocrit

[Phoenix]

Of course I have a drivers license.

you are a hypocrit


At least he's honest enough to admit it!

[Ares]

Of course I have a drivers license.

you are a hypocrit


How so? I never told ANYONE to drive without one. CAN and DOING are 2 separate things.

Or do you wanna continue this name calling charade?

It's spelled HYPOCRITE

Learn to spell the word correctly so that you don't look unintelligent.

[Phoenix]

do your own due diligence.


Wasn't that Bernie Madoff's motto?

This statement is used by crooks of every stripe to shift their immorality onto the unsuspecting suckers they fu*k over.

[UFM]

Of course I have a drivers license.

you are a hypocrit


How so? I never told ANYONE to drive without one. CAN and DOING are 2 separate things.

Or do you wanna continue this name calling charade?

It's spelled HYPOCRITE

Learn to spell the word correctly so that you don't look unintelligent.


looks can be deceiving. you are defending and prmoting a lie that beople can drive wthout license. if peope listen to you they get in trouble. you are a hypocritter because you do not practive what you preach.

[Ares]

It's called research and I quoted a supreme court case. I'm looking into the right to travel argument verses the privilege to drive. I never told you to do anything I was just stating a lawful fact. The research portion is up to you. I'm done explaining myself to you for the sole reason that I don't have to. I didn't tell you to do anything and I sure as hell don't owe you anything.

[I am me, I am free]

Phonyex/Quantum jokester - mighty cyperspace hero of the masses!

http://www.mecps.org/konkoth/superhero.jpg

Anyone who has been around here since the beginning (last spring) and can't put 2 and 2 together (Phoenix = Quantum) is pretty fucking dense imo. lol

[UFM]

Phonyex/Quantum jokester - mighty cyperspace hero of the masses!

http://www.mecps.org/konkoth/superhero.jpg

Anyone who has been around here since the beginning (last spring) and can't put 2 and 2 together (Phoenix = Quantum) is pretty f*cking dense imo. lol


what you mean 2 and 2? its 1 and 1 and you are making asumption

[UFM]

It's called research and I quoted a supreme court case. I'm looking into the right to travel argument verses the privilege to drive. I never told you to do anything I was just stating a lawful fact. The research portion is up to you. I'm done explaining myself to you for the sole reason that I don't have to. I didn't tell you to do anything and I sure as hell didn't owe you anything.


you sound like a very selfish woman

[FreeEnergy]

You need a passport to be able to cross international borders, that's a given now everywhere.


Is that so?


LEGALLY. As I said, it is in your fantasy land they all cross borders at night. In reality, 95% of these immigrants gets here on the plane, or via other ways with valid foreign passports.






You can have international driver's license, and in some instances I know of a person who isn't a citizen, and his US driver's license has been revoked for a DUI, and he has none and still drives. Since he's not a "citizen", cops can't really do much


This is absolutely, 100% UNTRUE. Citizen with no license = jail. Non-citizen with no license = definitely jail.


As I said, it is a REALITY, not some fantasy "untrue", "I read some legal books" stuff you burp on forums. There are ways. This guy is not a citizen, he's been jailed for DUI before (not for driving without a license), so he was in jail once. And I'd guess you don't want to go his way. He has no license, it is taken away because of the DUI. But he drives, and has been stopped more than once, and was NOT put in jail.




"Reality." I'm not going to laugh, since it's appearing that people have lost their fu*king minds on a scale far beyond my greatest fears.


Phoenix, a jew way to argue, my friend - attacking opponent instead of the argument. Go away, hide in your legal fantasy "we are #1" "freedom and democracy" TV land.


You are confused. You all yell "bad mexican illegals", yet they cut your loans and wash your dishes in restaurants. Your grand-grand parents arrived here, some of them illegally too. You call this country a "melting pot", yet would offend someone who speaks a foreign language to their family in public, or if you have to press 1 for english. When you travel abroad, you don't melt well with other nations, but collect in tourist traps and tourist bars, and only talk to each other. Who's the one who has lost their mind beyond any fears?


This country has no laws anymore. They don't apply. Once the amount of laws passes a certain threshold, people just start ignoring most of them. Which is what happened in another collapsed superpower, and which is I am witnessing here.

Any law that is over 1000 pages long is inapplicable. You can name it "healthcare bill", or "alien mars attack bill", nobody would care because 99% of it is PORK. So everything should be called "pork bill", just to be fair. Once people realize this, an underground economy springs that is disregarding most pork. If you need a room built, you hire someone and build it, not ask the county. You need a doctor - you go to a doctor and pay cash. You need a nanny - you hire one and pay cash. Or IRS wants 1099 for everything over $600, and nobody complies 'cause it is impossible to comply and do business...... As more and more of these types of scenarios become TRUE, gubbermint can no longer control all the "illegal" (things that it deems illegal) stuff - because everything becomes "illegal". And the worst crooks would be at the top and untouchable. So naturally, gubbermint's revenue drops as people stop paying taxes and "dues" any way they can. As revenues drop, gubbermints tend to come up with yet more pork, a perpetual circle. I believe USA is at a point of no return.

So, at the point of no return you can find ways to approach a person responsible for a certain tax in your area, and come up with a funky way to make it so that you don't pay it. Because of the amounts of pork that's in every law, and because somewhere some day a judge made a decision that contradicts what another time another judge said, it would be near impossible to all but the specialists - porky lawyers - to tell which way is "legal". And then the whole charade will collapse, or the old pork will become void. Pick a way out.

http://www.papamiket.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/pork-instead-of-puppy.jpg

[Phoenix]

Phonyex/Quantum jokester - mighty cyperspace hero of the masses!

Anyone who has been around here since the beginning (last spring) and can't put 2 and 2 together (Phoenix = Quantum) is pretty f*cking dense imo. lol


That's all you got? All you can attack me with is "you are Quantum, you are Quantum," like some parrot on LSD?


NO PROOF WHATSOEVER

NO PROOF WHATSOEVER


"My magic words stop government in its tracks."

That's all we've gotten from you for YEARS. "Trust me," like the con-man always tells his victims.

[Phoenix]

"Reality." I'm not going to laugh, since it's appearing that people have lost their fu*king minds on a scale far beyond my greatest fears.


Phoenix, a jew way to argue, my friend - attacking opponent instead of the argument. Go away, hide in your legal fantasy "we are #1" "freedom and democracy" TV land.


Huh? A "Jew way to argue" - like you just did?

[7th trump]

Hey phoenix,
Instead of bashing people on a personal level why not just read the laws that some here are providing and come up with a sensable answer.
You ever get tired of your antics?
You are really losing friends here, which I personally could care less.
Show us all here using the law where they are going wrong. You claim to be smart so show us, in the law, why you are so smart.
I mean they all cannot be nuts to come to the same conclusion when they are coming from different parts of the country.

You ever gonna answer the legal questions I posed or continue to attack everyone that doesnt agree to your satist agenda?

[Book]

You tell him, Boss!



:oo-->

[Phoenix]

Instead of bashing people on a personal level why not just read the laws that some here are providing and come up with a sensable answer.


I've read it ALL, and found all the claims LACKING, badly.

Either people don't know how to read, or, sometimes people just flat out LIE about what the statute/regulation/court decision means.




You ever get tired of your antics?


My "antics"? You mean standing up for reality, arguing the facts, pointing out my opponents have no relationship with the truth, that sort of thing? Nah, never.




You are really losing friends here, which I personally could care less.


"Friends"? Which ones? Any friend of value would never part ways over a difference of opinion.

What you are actually referring to as "friends" are cultists, who mistakenly thought I was also a fellow cultist. Any friend of any worth will tell a true friend they are wrong. And if that person is worth being friends with, they'll thank the friend for it. But, in the case of cultists, those who refuse to accept the "gospel" of the group are shunned.




Show us all here using the law where they are going wrong.


You have yet to show me "the law" where you are going right.




You claim to be smart so show us, in the law, why you are so smart.


I've repeatedly asked, and will ask again, for ANY PROOF WHATSOEVER, that these claims actually work, "on the ground."

NOT "the law," not anecdotes, PROOF with names and docket numbers of cases where someone USED these tactics, and actually won. The only person courageous, or stupid, enough to put forth such cases, jetgraphics, failed miserably when I investigated...outed as a liar, at least twice failed defendant, and deadbeat dad.




I mean they all cannot be nuts to come to the same conclusion when they are coming from different parts of the country.


No, of course not! ::)

http://www.scientology.org/

http://www.democrats.org/

http://www.novemberstartsnow.com/

[7th trump]

Instead of bashing people on a personal level why not just read the laws that some here are providing and come up with a sensable answer.


I've read it ALL, and found all the claims LACKING, badly.

Either people don't know how to read, or, sometimes people just flat out LIE about what the statute/regulation/court decision means.




You ever get tired of your antics?


My "antics"? You mean standing up for reality, arguing the facts, pointing out my opponents have no relationship with the truth, that sort of thing? Nah, never.




You are really losing friends here, which I personally could care less.


"Friends"? Which ones? Any friend of value would never part ways over a difference of opinion.

What you are actually referring to as "friends" are cultists, who mistakenly thought I was also a fellow cultist. Any friend of any worth will tell a true friend they are wrong. And if that person is worth being friends with, they'll thank the friend for it. But, in the case of cultists, those who refuse to accept the "gospel" of the group are shunned.




Show us all here using the law where they are going wrong.


You have yet to show me "the law" where you are going right.




You claim to be smart so show us, in the law, why you are so smart.


I've repeatedly asked, and will ask again, for ANY PROOF WHATSOEVER, that these claims actually work, "on the ground."

NOT "the law," not anecdotes, PROOF with names and docket numbers of cases where someone USED these tactics, and actually won. The only person courageous, or stupid, enough to put forth such cases, jetgraphics, failed miserably when I investigated...outed as a liar, at least twice failed defendant, and deadbeat dad.




I mean they all cannot be nuts to come to the same conclusion when they are coming from different parts of the country.


No, of course not! ::)

http://www.scientology.org/

http://www.democrats.org/

http://www.novemberstartsnow.com/



Hahahaha..............you want a docket # for case that a prosecuter couldnt and never would bring suit to.
Hahahahahahaha................I've never heard of any instance where a person was brought up on charges for obeying the law.
Hahahahahahahahaha......................your a hoot!
Hahahahaha.............
Like Nocternal said in another thread about you........"you dont change my mind"!

[UFM]

Instead of bashing people on a personal level why not just read the laws that some here are providing and come up with a sensable answer.


I've read it ALL, and found all the claims LACKING, badly.

Either people don't know how to read, or, sometimes people just flat out LIE about what the statute/regulation/court decision means.




You ever get tired of your antics?


My "antics"? You mean standing up for reality, arguing the facts, pointing out my opponents have no relationship with the truth, that sort of thing? Nah, never.




You are really losing friends here, which I personally could care less.


"Friends"? Which ones? Any friend of value would never part ways over a difference of opinion.

What you are actually referring to as "friends" are cultists, who mistakenly thought I was also a fellow cultist. Any friend of any worth will tell a true friend they are wrong. And if that person is worth being friends with, they'll thank the friend for it. But, in the case of cultists, those who refuse to accept the "gospel" of the group are shunned.




Show us all here using the law where they are going wrong.


You have yet to show me "the law" where you are going right.




You claim to be smart so show us, in the law, why you are so smart.


I've repeatedly asked, and will ask again, for ANY PROOF WHATSOEVER, that these claims actually work, "on the ground."

NOT "the law," not anecdotes, PROOF with names and docket numbers of cases where someone USED these tactics, and actually won. The only person courageous, or stupid, enough to put forth such cases, jetgraphics, failed miserably when I investigated...outed as a liar, at least twice failed defendant, and deadbeat dad.




I mean they all cannot be nuts to come to the same conclusion when they are coming from different parts of the country.


No, of course not! ::)

http://www.scientology.org/

http://www.democrats.org/

http://www.novemberstartsnow.com/




well done phoenix. my hats off to you. you just trumped 7th trump for at least the 7th time. you are playin this board like a fiddle and its entertaining as hell to watch. you should have your own show.

[UFM]

Instead of bashing people on a personal level why not just read the laws that some here are providing and come up with a sensable answer.


I've read it ALL, and found all the claims LACKING, badly.

Either people don't know how to read, or, sometimes people just flat out LIE about what the statute/regulation/court decision means.




You ever get tired of your antics?


My "antics"? You mean standing up for reality, arguing the facts, pointing out my opponents have no relationship with the truth, that sort of thing? Nah, never.




You are really losing friends here, which I personally could care less.


"Friends"? Which ones? Any friend of value would never part ways over a difference of opinion.

What you are actually referring to as "friends" are cultists, who mistakenly thought I was also a fellow cultist. Any friend of any worth will tell a true friend they are wrong. And if that person is worth being friends with, they'll thank the friend for it. But, in the case of cultists, those who refuse to accept the "gospel" of the group are shunned.




Show us all here using the law where they are going wrong.


You have yet to show me "the law" where you are going right.




You claim to be smart so show us, in the law, why you are so smart.


I've repeatedly asked, and will ask again, for ANY PROOF WHATSOEVER, that these claims actually work, "on the ground."

NOT "the law," not anecdotes, PROOF with names and docket numbers of cases where someone USED these tactics, and actually won. The only person courageous, or stupid, enough to put forth such cases, jetgraphics, failed miserably when I investigated...outed as a liar, at least twice failed defendant, and deadbeat dad.




I mean they all cannot be nuts to come to the same conclusion when they are coming from different parts of the country.


No, of course not! ::)

http://www.scientology.org/

http://www.democrats.org/

http://www.novemberstartsnow.com/



Hahahaha..............you want a docket # for case that a prosecuter couldnt and never would bring suit to.
Hahahahahahaha................I've never heard of any instance where a person was brought up on charges for obeying the law.
Hahahahahahahahaha......................your a hoot!
Hahahahaha.............
Like Nocternal said in another thread about you........"you dont change my mind"!


if i just got mentally slaughterd the way phoenix just lobotomized you, all i would do is laff too. he dont change your mind because you cant think on his level. you are out of your leagie son. thans for playin

[Olmstein]

Phoenix/Quantum/PDT/Shasta Gold/Fred/So many socks I've lost track/ etc.. has always been a fan of National Socialism, especially the socialism part.

Wonder what his plan is to increase personal freedom and reduce the size/power of the state. Maybe he likes the current police state. Who knows?

Do your thing, Ares, 7th Trump, IAMIAF. If more people decided to take action to seize back their rights from the socialist state, the socialist state would collapse.

[UFM]

Phoenix/Quantum/PDT/Shasta Gold/Fred/So many socks I've lost track/ etc.. has always been a fan of National Socialism, especially the socialism part.

Wonder what his plan is to increase personal freedom and reduce the size/power of the state. Maybe he likes the current police state. Who knows?

Do your thing, Ares, 7th Trump, IAMIAF. If more people decided to take action to seize back their rights from the socialist state, the socialist state would collapse.


no if more people do it they will end up in prison.

[I am me, I am free]

Phoenix/Quantum/PDT/Shasta Gold/Fred/So many socks I've lost track/ etc.. has always been a fan of National Socialism, especially the socialism part.

Wonder what his plan is to increase personal freedom and reduce the size/power of the state. Maybe he likes the current police state. Who knows?

Do your thing, Ares, 7th Trump, IAMIAF. If more people decided to take action to seize back their rights from the socialist state, the socialist state would collapse.


no if more people do it they will end up in prison.


How does this benefit you? What would motivate you to post a negative affirmation such as this, re-enforcing the almighty, all powerful state which cannot be questioned? Seriously, I'm interested in what drives someone to want to exert control over the lives of others, including complete strangers, people they have never met and have no idea about.

[UFM]

Phoenix/Quantum/PDT/Shasta Gold/Fred/So many socks I've lost track/ etc.. has always been a fan of National Socialism, especially the socialism part.

Wonder what his plan is to increase personal freedom and reduce the size/power of the state. Maybe he likes the current police state. Who knows?

Do your thing, Ares, 7th Trump, IAMIAF. If more people decided to take action to seize back their rights from the socialist state, the socialist state would collapse.


no if more people do it they will end up in prison.


How does this benefit you? What would motivate you to post a negative affirmation such as this, re-enforcing the almighty, all powerful state which cannot be questioned? Seriously, I'm interested in what drives someone to want to exert control over the lives of others, including complete strangers, people they have never met and have no idea about.


what planet are you from? i dont need to know you to tell you that if you try to drive around without a license plate or dont pay your taxes you are going to get in trouble and if you keep pushing it you will end up in jail

[Phoenix]

what planet are you from? i dont need to know you to tell you that if you try to drive around without a license plate or dont pay your taxes you are going to get in trouble and if you keep pushing it you will end up in jail


He knows all this. His purpose is to flush out any innocent citizen who might believe there is a way, other than operating on a cash-only principle, to avoid paying taxes, or avoid paying tribute to drive a car. He admits he's cozy-cozy with "law enforcement," and I suspect he is "law enforcement."

[Skirnir]

Agents provocateur have been used before, and I suspect that it lies at the root of this sovereign citizen nonsense. It is a way to incite people who are predisposed to act as opposed to chattering.

[Phoenix]

Agents provocateur have been used before, and I suspect that it lies at the root of this sovereign citizen nonsense. It is a way to incite people who are predisposed to act as opposed to chattering.


You deserve praise for inspiring me to start this thread:

http://gold-silver.us/forum/general-discussion/the-purposes-of-the-%27sovereign-citizen%27-movement/