POINT BLANK Question re: Property Taxes

[Gaillo]

OK, folks.
It seems like every month or so, someone posts an article on how to "get out of paying property tax" through various methods - obtaining Allodial title, un-recording property, etc. Here is my question:

HAS ANYONE HERE actually LEGALLY ACCOMPLISHED this, or DIRECTLY knows someone who has done it... and not ended up losing their property?

I'm not interested in anecdotes, legal mumbo jumbo, books for sale on how to do it, opinions, name calling, U.S. code citations, or anything else but DIRECT EVIDENCE FROM SOMEONE WHO HAS ACCOMPLISHED IT that true (untaxed) property ownership is possible in the U.S.

Anyone? ???

[undgrd]

This is a GREAT question! I've often wondered if part of the "deal" for being granted property changed from commercial to private is to sign a document agreeing to never help anyone seeking the same.

[ximmy]

Now of course persons who are vehement about the subject know many people who do not pay property tax... (what they don't tell you is they nor the many people they know, don't own any property)... I'll just stick to paying my property tax...

[Book]

Now of course persons who are vehement about the subject know many people who do not pay property tax...



...they also link us to some mumbo jumbo "legal advice" website with biblical and freedom slogans that ALWAYS cost us money to find out their "secret". Send "cash only" to their post office box...lol.

:D

[mightymanx]

Around this post number in all thread I have read on this subject. There will be an OP call out where he is called either and Government agent or part of the ZOG troll society or any other boogyman.

So without further ado...

Ahem...

Gaillo; You are a government zog troll tying to get our information and feed it into the man's machine.

There now the thread can continue as all the bazillion of threads on this subject that have come before where a direct question has been asked on this subject.

[TheNocturnalEgyptian]

Some people are postulating that the biblical mumbo jumbo is actually the only method still remaining that gets results.

I believe George Gordon is the best, and most public example of this. He runs a law school, which only accepts silver and gold as payment. He pays no taxes of any type. He has not been hassled by the police or .gov in more than 20 years. He pretty much has his "freeman" status on lock, and he explains how and why, for free. He does this by following the Mosiac Law. I regard this information as useful, but it would be dishonest for me to use it since I don't believe in it.

His talks are extremely enlightening in terms of theory, although his methods are far too precise and exacting for someone like to practice at this point in my life.

http://library.georgegordon.com/audio










Now of course persons who are vehement about the subject know many people who do not pay property tax...



...they also link us to some mumbo jumbo "legal advice" website with biblical and freedom slogans that ALWAYS cost us money to find out their "secret". Send "cash only" to their post office box...lol.

:D

[Phoenix]

HAS ANYONE HERE actually LEGALLY ACCOMPLISHED this, or DIRECTLY knows someone who has done it... and not ended up losing their property?


NO, never. And I declare anyone who claims to have done so to be a liar.

It is IMPOSSIBLE. If it WERE possible, the government would have closed any such loophole within weeks, while simply delaying those who presented the claim.

Government is FORCE, not law. These schemes of "get out of taxes, etc." depend upon a delusional perception that government follows "the law." Law is used against you, and "following the law" by government is done so only as convenient.

Most of these "legal gurus" who push this garbage endanger the lives, freedom, and property of the suckers who fall for their lies. Endanger it for PERSONAL GAIN. That's despicable. If someone falls for the lies, and tries to use them, and they are nailed, the con-men who peddle the lies blame the victim, claiming "they didn't know what they were doing / didn't follow my 'tried and true' techniques to the letter."

[Phoenix]

He pays no taxes of any type.


NO ONE really believes this.

No sales taxes? No fuel taxes?

[Book]

I believe George Gordon is the best, and most public example of this. He runs a law school, which only accepts silver and gold as payment. He pays no taxes of any type. He has not been hassled by the police or .gov in more than 20 years. He pretty much has his "freeman" status on lock, and he explains how and why, for free.



George Gordon's School of Law

P.O. Box 297 Isabella, MO 65676
Fax : 417-273-4772
Telephone : 417-273-4967

(Please don't call during the Sabbath, which is Friday sundown till Saturday sundown, Central Time)

:oo-->

[Phoenix]

I believe George Gordon is the best, and most public example of this. He runs a law school, which only accepts silver and gold as payment. He pays no taxes of any type. He has not been hassled by the police or .gov in more than 20 years. He pretty much has his "freeman" status on lock, and he explains how and why, for free.



George Gordon's School of Law

P.O. Box 297 Isabella, MO 65676
Fax : 417-273-4772
Telephone : 417-273-4967

(Please don't call during the Sabbath, which is Friday sundown till Saturday sundown, Central Time)

:oo-->



Like a Pharisee, he makes up new commandments: "Thou Shalt not Steal by Duplication"

And won't post the prices of his "classes" or CDs on the website! You have to call to find out how much.

[Kali]

I don't believe there is a way to get out of property taxes, legally.

Many say there is but never done it themselves.

Many will also give a name of another person who pays no taxes but they do not actually know this for sure.

Pay your taxes or lose your sh*t.

[ximmy]

He pays no taxes of any type.


NO ONE really believes this.

No sales taxes? No fuel taxes?


So funny... I worked retail once and someone came to the register claiming they didn't have to pay tax... showed us some form... we said no way, your paying like everyone else... and that form is between you and your tax man.. has nothing to do with us...

this went on for 30 minutes or so...

he finally paid...

looser

[iOWNme]

I figured out a way to 'pay' my 'property tax' with some little worthless green pieces of paper called 'notes' and they take them without a hitch!

I win!

:)


Unless i dont have those little worthless green pieces of paper, then there is most definitely a 'Hitch'.

[Phoenix]

I figured out a way to 'pay' my 'property tax' with some little worthless green pieces of paper called 'notes' and they take them without a hitch!

I win!

:)


Unless i dont have those little worthless green pieces of paper, then there is most definitely a 'Hitch'.


Or if "they," like Georgia had recently proposed, require gold and silver in payment of debts (and taxes!), and you have no gold or silver! :o

[TheNocturnalEgyptian]

I believe George Gordon is the best, and most public example of this. He runs a law school, which only accepts silver and gold as payment. He pays no taxes of any type. He has not been hassled by the police or .gov in more than 20 years. He pretty much has his "freeman" status on lock, and he explains how and why, for free.



George Gordon's School of Law

P.O. Box 297 Isabella, MO 65676
Fax : 417-273-4772
Telephone : 417-273-4967

(Please don't call during the Sabbath, which is Friday sundown till Saturday sundown, Central Time)

:oo-->



Like a Pharisee, he makes up new commandments: "Thou Shalt not Steal by Duplication"

And won't post the prices of his "classes" or CDs on the website! You have to call to find out how much.


If you would KINDLY click the link I provided, you will see that he has over 3,000 hours of audio posted for free. The CD is a law school enrollment package. You only need it if you're going to join his law school. If you're not going to Missouri to join his lawschool, you don't need the damn CD. ALL THE OTHER MATERIAL IS HOSTED FOR FREE on his website.


And like I was alluding to, yes, he is using the Mosiac law to get out of paying taxes. He follows the Mosiac law. It's his decision. I will probably never find myself in the same position, but it works DAMN well for him. If you're not going to actually listen to one of the many, many, many free interviews/classes, then what can I do?

And yeah, Phoenix, he probably pays fuel taxes. But for the purpose of this discussion, he is not liable for an income tax or a property tax. Aren't you even the least bit interested in how he did that?


It's good for other stuff, too.

You might like this one:
Name: History of Silver Topic: From 9 Billion Oz. of Silver in 1959 to 600,000 Oz. of Silver in 2009 Link: http://library.georgegordon.com/audio/download/1679/359a-32.mp3


Or this one:
Name: The Richest Nation in the World. Topic: A debt discharged is a debt unpaid. Link: http://library.georgegordon.com/audio/download/1862/382b-32.mp3

Or this one:
Name: Can They Do That? Topic: When you plead not guilty, from that point on you can't win. Link: http://library.georgegordon.com/audio/download/1541/336f-32.mp3

Or this one:
Name: Fairy Tales Topic: Should I practice vaccinations? Link: http://library.georgegordon.com/audio/download/1377/0296g-32.mp3

Or this one:
Name: Crime is a Growth Industry Topic: We are making everyday activities into crimes Link: http://library.georgegordon.com/audio/download/1352/0293c-32.mp3


Or Maybe this one:
Name: Follow The Money TOPIC: I never met a christian who could count or a jew who couldn't Link: http://library.georgegordon.com/audio/download/1284/0283e-32.mp3


He definitely talks about the stuff you claim he won't talk about, mainly, the state of modern judaism.

[Book]

But for the purpose of this discussion, he is not liable for an income tax or a property tax. Aren't you even the least bit interested in how he did that?



Not interested enough to send my hard-earned "cash only" or my hard-earned "gold and silver" to some post office box to find out your secret...Ha Ha.

http://www.shafted.de/public/Ha%20ha%202.jpg

Until today I had no idea that internet forums were the target of all these obvious schemes. Can't blame this on just the jews...lol.

[TheNocturnalEgyptian]

Until today I had no idea that internet forums were the target of all these obvious schemes. Can't blame this on just the jews...lol.




Are you reading my posts? 100% of his material is available at the links I posted. You don't need to go to his law school unless you want accreditation, which I assume, you don't care about. Why are you being so resistant to listening to some free material regarding the freeman status?

Thousands of hours of education available by direct .mp3 link and you don't even have the time to check out one of them. You're always asking for people to post sources, but when people try to engage you, you put up a brick wall. You're not just filtering out the BS, you're filtering out EVERYTHING, including someone who has done something you claimed was impossible. George Gordon is the real deal, whether you believe me or not doesn't matter, it's not my duty to be responsible for your education.

[I am me, I am free]

http://gold-silver.us/forum/general-discussion/opting-out-of-property-tax/msg86775/#msg86775

[I am me, I am free]

to get out of paying taxes.

In the future I suggest you refrain from using the term "to get out of..." and instead use "he (or she) was exercising his (or her) exemption" where applicable.

[ximmy]

Now of course persons who are vehement about the subject know many people who do not pay property tax... (what they don't tell you is they nor the many people they know, don't own any property)... I'll just stick to paying my property tax...


http://gold-silver.us/forum/general-discussion/opting-out-of-property-tax/msg86775/#msg86775

:ROFL:

[Book]

OK, folks.
It seems like every month or so, someone posts an article on how to "get out of paying property tax" through various methods - obtaining Allodial title, un-recording property, etc. Here is my question:

HAS ANYONE HERE actually LEGALLY ACCOMPLISHED this, or DIRECTLY knows someone who has done it... and not ended up losing their property?

I'm not interested in anecdotes, legal mumbo jumbo, books for sale on how to do it, opinions, name calling, U.S. code citations, or anything else but DIRECT EVIDENCE FROM SOMEONE WHO HAS ACCOMPLISHED IT that true (untaxed) property ownership is possible in the U.S.

Anyone? ???



:oo-->




BTW, FWIW a friend who lives in deep east Texas has studied the property tax issue for years, and is well versed in the subject. He asserts that in Texas the original intent of the legislation regarding property tax was to tax banks and corporations, and only banks and corporations. Suffice it to say he doesn't pay property taxes, and hasn't in years.

[Phoenix]

If you would KINDLY click the link I provided, you will see that he has over 3,000 hours of audio posted for free.


How exactly do you think I learned the details posted above if I didn't click on the link?




The CD is a law school enrollment package. You only need it if you're going to join his law school.


"Law school," LOL. LAW SCHOOL! HA HA HA

Yeah, join Phoenix's "medical school" and become a doctor in six weeks! Only $1995...that's with a decimal and two zeroes at the end.

::)




And like I was alluding to, yes, he is using the Mosiac law to get out of paying taxes. He follows the Mosiac law. It's his decision. I will probably never find myself in the same position, but it works DAMN well for him.


It doesn't work at all.




If you're not going to actually listen to one of the many, many, many free interviews/classes, then what can I do?


I could listen to hours of lecture on why the Earth is flat, but why?




And yeah, Phoenix, he probably pays fuel taxes.


Ah, but you said: "He pays no taxes of any type." (bold in your original)




Aren't you even the least bit interested in how he did that?


Considering you LIED above, I would, rationally, assume that your assertions about Mr. Gordon's "law education" are, shall we say, "less than credible."

[Phoenix]

You don't need to go to his law school unless you want accreditation


ACCREDITATION?!? OMG, this is even better than his "law school"! Accredited by whom or what?

:ROFL:



You're always asking for people to post sources, but when people try to engage you, you put up a brick wall.


"Source" means citations to court cases where the "freeman on the land" actually made the other party (including the government) do his will.

Care to cite any? Probably not, since Jetgraphics tried that, and look what happened to him! ;D




You're not just filtering out the BS, you're filtering out EVERYTHING, including someone who has done something you claimed was impossible. George Gordon is the real deal, whether you believe me or not doesn't matter, it's not my duty to be responsible for your education.


"Real deal" what? Con-man?

What you are essentially insisting on is that by sheer power of mind, you can stop bullets. No sane man is going to listen to LECTURES on such an outrageous assertion. He will want verifiable proof he can SEE. That's what I want, proof I can SEE.

SHOW us court cases where these "techniques" WORK!

[ximmy]

Phoenix, does you med school come with accreditation?

"Phoenix's "medical school" and become a doctor in six weeks! Only $1995...that's with a decimal and two zeroes at the end."

[Book]

Phoenix, does your med school come with accreditation?



Yeah...absolutely...I accredited it myself. Mamboni was one of my professors during my Intern week...lol.

-Book, M.D.

;D

[Phoenix]

Phoenix, does you med school come with accreditation?


OF COURSE! I guarantee that the medical school will qualify you to practice cutting edge medicine on real live patients!







http://www.instructables.com/image/FD9TSVVFB0B2608/Operation-Game.jpg

;D

[ximmy]

Phoenix, does your med school come with accreditation?



Yeah...absolutely...I accredited it myself. Mamboni was one of my professors during my Intern week...lol.

-Book, M.D.

;D




Phoenix, does you med school come with accreditation?


OF COURSE! I guarantee that the medical school will qualify you to practice cutting edge medicine on real live patients!







http://www.instructables.com/image/FD9TSVVFB0B2608/Operation-Game.jpg

;D



Sweet, sign me up... I was wondering because when I signed up for GG's law classes they said, "George has not sought, nor would he accept, government accreditation or funding for this school; in fact, he has turned down offers of accreditation so that he can continue to teach things in his own fashion without government interference, as an individual."

[Book]

Sweet, sign me up...



Ok...your M.D. is in the mail Dr. Ximmy. Tell your new office workers and nurses to avoid accepting Medicare patients. You won't need to hire a bookkeeper...lol.

:)

[ximmy]

Guys, get in line for your free physicals! :D :o

Our nurses are ready to attend you...

[I am me, I am free]

This thread is a perfect example as to how their can never be an objective discussion of these matters on this forum due to the closet statists talking shyte about matters they are absolutely clueless about, and due to that 'comfort zone' of theirs they prefer their human gods' yoke over genuine liberty.

[Phoenix]

This thread is a perfect example as to how their can never be an objective discussion of these matters on this forum due to the closet statists talking shyte about matters they are absolutely clueless about, and due to that 'comfort zone' of theirs they prefer their human gods' yoke over genuine liberty.


What's the VIN of your automobile? I want to know how much you saved on car registration by switching to WACKO.

[7th trump]

This thread is a perfect example as to how their can never be an objective discussion of these matters on this forum due to the closet statists talking shyte about matters they are absolutely clueless about, and due to that 'comfort zone' of theirs they prefer their human gods' yoke over genuine liberty.

I find it ironic phoenix in other threads talks about the Bible like hes well versed but then you come here and read another totally opposite side him.
Big time bipolar if you ask me!

[Awoke]

Well I, for on, appreciate you posting the links, Nocturnal Egyptian.

I will check this stuff out later on when I have time, and even if it doesn't lead to anything substantial, at least I will have checked it out and be aware of that angle.

So thank you.

[horseshoe3]

So funny... I worked retail once and someone came to the register claiming they didn't have to pay tax... showed us some form... we said no way, your paying like everyone else... and that form is between you and your tax man.. has nothing to do with us...

this went on for 30 minutes or so...

he finally paid...

looser


He was probably legitimate. Most states have sales tax exemptions for a variety of things. It varies from state to state, but I think all of them have an exemption for items purchased for resale and for any item purchased by a non-profit organization.

[I am me, I am free]

He pays no taxes of any type.


NO ONE really believes this.

No sales taxes? No fuel taxes?


So funny... I worked retail once and someone came to the register claiming they didn't have to pay tax... showed us some form... we said no way, your paying like everyone else... and that form is between you and your tax man.. has nothing to do with us...

this went on for 30 minutes or so...

he finally paid...

looser


I use a Certificate of Sales Tax Exemption and exercise my exemption virtually everywhere I make a purchase. My form has been 'on file' with some mega-sized corporations for many years, in some cases 10+ years - so far not a single one of them has rejected my transactions based on this Certificate of Sales Tax Exemption. Yeah, you'd think that the big box stores would have kicked my info out of their system after YEARS of this activity if there was an issue with it, huh? lol The ONLY time I get static from someone over the submission of this form is when some small business whose owner(s) quake(s) in their shoes at the mere thought of some actor from the state talking to them. (there's this one salty Brazilian woman who disregards her numbnuts bookkeeper and accepts me exercising my exemption despite her bookkeeper's protestations) In those cases I simply take by business elsewhere. I'd sooner go out of my way and pay slightly more rather than allow the state to get any revenue out of me. sh*t, I've submitted my Certificate of Sales Tax Exemption on $1 transactions just to keep the state from getting a measly eight cents!

And talk about LOSERS - the real losers are the morons who give up their time and labor to the state FOR FREE by doing the state's sales tax bookkeeping without compensation. lol

[I am me, I am free]

This thread is a perfect example as to how their can never be an objective discussion of these matters on this forum due to the closet statists talking shyte about matters they are absolutely clueless about, and due to that 'comfort zone' of theirs they prefer their human gods' yoke over genuine liberty.

I find it ironic phoenix in other threads talks about the Bible like hes well versed but then you come here and read another totally opposite side him.
Big time bipolar if you ask me!


Yeah, something definitely unbalanced there, as Phoenix has given me more 'thanks' than everyone else combined, yet he sees me as a liar and a Satan-worshipping cabbalist. lol

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I think while Book and Phoenix post some worthwhile stuff from time to time I think they're both OC psychos. lol

[Phoenix]

I use a Certificate of Sales Tax Exemption and exercise my exemption virtually everywhere I make a purchase.


What is the number of your "certificate"? I want to verify it's existence.

If you refuse to provide the number, you expose yourself as telling a(nother) falsehood.

[Phoenix]

Yeah, something definitely unbalanced there


Telling everyone you have magic words that make cops and government go away is the mark of sanity, of course.




as Phoenix has given me more 'thanks' than everyone else combined


So? Are you too lazy to give thanks when thanks is due?




yet he sees me as a liar and a Satan-worshipping cabbalist.


I do?

Or perhaps, more importantly, are you?




Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I think while Book and Phoenix post some worthwhile stuff from time to time I think they're both OC psychos. lol


I'm not the one claiming I can overcome government with magic words.

[sirgonzo420]

I use a Certificate of Sales Tax Exemption and exercise my exemption virtually everywhere I make a purchase.


What is the number of your "certificate"? I want to verify it's existence.

If you refuse to provide the number, you expose yourself as telling a(nother) falsehood.


What's your social security number?

[I am me, I am free]

I use a Certificate of Sales Tax Exemption and exercise my exemption virtually everywhere I make a purchase.


What is the number of your "certificate"? I want to verify it's existence.

If you refuse to provide the number, you expose yourself as telling a(nother) falsehood.


What's your social security number?



I'm going to refrain from engaging Phoenix/Quantum, but to address the matter of the sales tax exemption - no number is required for a sales tax exemption here, however in some instances the big box stores *require* a 'number' in order for their computer programs to proceed, and in those cases I provide a number I got from the Secretary of State's office (NOT the Comptroller's office as is the case with a Sales Tax Use and Re-sale Certificate). Thus far this number has NEVER been rejected by any store's computer system.

[Phoenix]

I use a Certificate of Sales Tax Exemption and exercise my exemption virtually everywhere I make a purchase.


What is the number of your "certificate"? I want to verify it's existence.

If you refuse to provide the number, you expose yourself as telling a(nother) falsehood.


What's your social security number?







I don't have one! HA HA

[sirgonzo420]

I use a Certificate of Sales Tax Exemption and exercise my exemption virtually everywhere I make a purchase.


What is the number of your "certificate"? I want to verify it's existence.

If you refuse to provide the number, you expose yourself as telling a(nother) falsehood.


What's your social security number?







I don't have one! HA HA


Me either.

:)


The point is, people are (understandably) weary of giving personal information over the internet.

[I am me, I am free]

I use a Certificate of Sales Tax Exemption and exercise my exemption virtually everywhere I make a purchase.


What is the number of your "certificate"? I want to verify it's existence.

If you refuse to provide the number, you expose yourself as telling a(nother) falsehood.


What's your social security number?







I don't have one! HA HA

[/quote]

That's ok, I'm relatively certain that gov.org has one for him. lol

[Phoenix]

The point is, people are (understandably) weary of giving personal information over the internet.


My point is, people are able to make unbelievably outrageous, and logically, patently false, claims over the Internet by conveniently hiding behind "privacy."

It's not that Sukhoi Fan doesn't provide his personal information; it's that he has never offered ANY PROOF WHATSOEVER.

"I drive without a license nor real license plates, and cops don't hassle me" = LIE (we all know that)

"I fraudulently utilize a reseller's tax-exemption certificate, and have no trouble doing so, so it must be lawful" = LIE (truth: I have not been caught)

[Phoenix]

(deleted)


NO PROOF WHATSOEVER

NO PROOF WHATSOEVER

[I am me, I am free]

I use a Certificate of Sales Tax Exemption and exercise my exemption virtually everywhere I make a purchase.


What is the number of your "certificate"? I want to verify it's existence.

If you refuse to provide the number, you expose yourself as telling a(nother) falsehood.


What's your social security number?



I'm going to refrain from engaging Phoenix/Quantum, but to address the matter of the sales tax exemption - no number is required for a sales tax exemption here, however in some instances the big box stores *require* a 'number' in order for their computer programs to proceed, and in those cases I provide a number I got from the Secretary of State's office (NOT the Comptroller's office as is the case with a Sales Tax Use and Re-sale Certificate). Thus far this number has NEVER been rejected by any store's computer system.


Oh, and BTW, I have a very clever way of PRESENTING this number to the party who requests it. I never say the number out loud, I merely show them the state's document and point to where 'the number' is. The document speaks for itself.

[Phoenix]

Oh, and BTW, I have a very clever way of PRESENTING this number to the party who requests it. I never say the number out loud, I merely show them the state's document and point to where 'the number' is. The document speaks for itself.


I'm sure you "present" it the same way Bernard von NutHaus "presented" his wares as silver dollars.

The document you are using is a reseller's exemption (specifically, the "Texas Sales and Use Tax Permit"). You use it successfully because you have not been caught...yet.

[sirgonzo420]

The point is, people are (understandably) weary of giving personal information over the internet.


My point is, people are able to make unbelievably outrageous, and logically, patently false, claims over the Internet by conveniently hiding behind "privacy."

It's not that Sukhoi Fan doesn't provide his personal information; it's that he has never offered ANY PROOF WHATSOEVER.

"I drive without a license nor real license plates, and cops don't hassle me" = LIE (we all know that)

"I fraudulently utilize a reseller's tax-exemption certificate, and have no trouble doing so, so it must be lawful" = LIE (truth: I have not been caught)


How come you don't require the same type proof from your Bible?

You go on faith when it suits you and attack people viciously when it doesn't.

[Phoenix]

The point is, people are (understandably) weary of giving personal information over the internet.


My point is, people are able to make unbelievably outrageous, and logically, patently false, claims over the Internet by conveniently hiding behind "privacy."

It's not that Sukhoi Fan doesn't provide his personal information; it's that he has never offered ANY PROOF WHATSOEVER.

"I drive without a license nor real license plates, and cops don't hassle me" = LIE (we all know that)

"I fraudulently utilize a reseller's tax-exemption certificate, and have no trouble doing so, so it must be lawful" = LIE (truth: I have not been caught)


How come you don't require the same type proof from your Bible?

You go on faith when it suits you and attack people viciously when it doesn't.


Am I trying to make money with the Bible? NOPE.

It's between me and God.

Why do people make excuses for SCAMS that are used for personal enrichment?

[sirgonzo420]

The point is, people are (understandably) weary of giving personal information over the internet.


My point is, people are able to make unbelievably outrageous, and logically, patently false, claims over the Internet by conveniently hiding behind "privacy."

It's not that Sukhoi Fan doesn't provide his personal information; it's that he has never offered ANY PROOF WHATSOEVER.

"I drive without a license nor real license plates, and cops don't hassle me" = LIE (we all know that)

"I fraudulently utilize a reseller's tax-exemption certificate, and have no trouble doing so, so it must be lawful" = LIE (truth: I have not been caught)


How come you don't require the same type proof from your Bible?

You go on faith when it suits you and attack people viciously when it doesn't.


Am I trying to make money with the Bible? NOPE.

It's between me and God.

Why do people make excuses for SCAMS that are used for personal enrichment?



Who is I am Me, I am Free trying to scam?

How is he "making money"?

?

[I am me, I am free]

Oh, and BTW, I have a very clever way of PRESENTING this number to the party who requests it. I never say the number out loud, I merely show them the state's document and point to where 'the number' is. The document speaks for itself.


I'm sure you "present" it the same way Bernard von NutHaus "presented" his wares as silver dollars.

The document you are using is a reseller's exemption. You use it successfully because you have not been caught...yet.


lol...you're so full of shyte. The hilarious thing is that you're clueless about being clueless.*

There's no such thing as an 'exemption' for a reseller. Those who act as sales tax collectors for the state have a Certificate issued to them by the Comptroller's office. This Certificate is called a Texas Sales and Use Tax Resale Certificate. Anyone with one of these Certificates issued by the Comptroller's office MUST make periodic reports to the Comptroller's office. An exemption has no such requirement.

www.window.state.tx.us/taxinfo/taxforms/01-3392.pdf

*Those unaware are unaware of being unaware. --Merrill Jenkins

[Awoke]

Interesting thread, but I wish you guys would stop infighting.

[I am me, I am free]

Sales and Use Tax "Exemption Numbers" or "Tax Exempt" Numbers do not exist.

D'OH!!!

(as stated on the second form here - http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxinfo/taxforms/01-339.pdf

which I very rarely use anymore, I use my own)

[Phoenix]

Sales and Use Tax "Exemption Numbers" or "Tax Exempt" Numbers do not exist.

D'OH!!!

(as stated on the second form here - http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxinfo/taxforms/01-339.pdf

which I very rarely use anymore, I use my own)


Like Ximmy had recounted, customers who claim they're "exempt" from tax find that retailers don't fall so easily for such fraud.

[Phoenix]

Interesting thread, but I wish you guys would stop infighting.


I fight for the Truth, and if someone gets run over by the Truth, it's unfortunate, but necessary.

[I am me, I am free]

Sales and Use Tax "Exemption Numbers" or "Tax Exempt" Numbers do not exist.

D'OH!!!

(as stated on the second form here - http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxinfo/taxforms/01-339.pdf

which I very rarely use anymore, I use my own)


Like Ximmy had recounted, customers who claim they're "exempt" from tax find that retailers don't fall so easily for such fraud.


Those who have accepted the responsibility of collecting sales tax for the state face stiff penalties (like $600 per incident) for not collecting sales tax where due. You'd think that after several years all the mega corporations which have my Certificate 'on file' (i.e. have accepted it and it is in their system/records) would have purged me from their database and cut me off if there were any problem. To date not a single one has.

Admit it Quantum, you're a closet statist - it bugs the hell out of you when someone doesn't fall into the state's line of control.

[Phoenix]

Those who have accepted the responsibility of collecting sales tax for the state face stiff penalties (like $600 per incident) for not collecting sales tax where due. You'd think that after several years all the mega corporations which have my Certificate 'on file' (i.e. have accepted it and it is in their system/records) would have purged me from their database and cut me off if there were any problem. To date not a single one has.


The success of fraud does not mean fraud has not occurred...or that it will succeed forever.

You have shifted the responsibility onto these businesses, and don't give one iota of a damn if one of them is nailed with fines because you defrauded them with your phony "exemption." What you have done is perpetrated a confidence trick on these businesses.

Tell us, what businesses actually accept your "exemption certificates"?




Admit it Quantum, you're a closet statist - it bugs the hell out of you when someone doesn't fall into the state's line of control.


Since you refuse to address me by a name I actually use/used, I should just ignore this. But I'll address it anyways.

You are a liar and a fraud, just like jetgraphics. You can present NO PROOF WHATSOEVER of your claims that mere magic words neutralize cops & the government. We all know you are FULL OF IT when you make these claims, but can't back-down, because you have some interest in perpetuating these frauds. Do you sell books like "Right Reverend Doctor" jetgraphics? I suspect so.

I'm quite pleased when someone tells the government to fu*k off, but that's not what you're doing here. You are a weasel, trying to out-Jew the government. Using fraud to fight fraud doesn't make you a hero - it makes you a fraud, as well.

[sirgonzo420]

Sales and Use Tax "Exemption Numbers" or "Tax Exempt" Numbers do not exist.

D'OH!!!

(as stated on the second form here - http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxinfo/taxforms/01-339.pdf

which I very rarely use anymore, I use my own)


Like Ximmy had recounted, customers who claim they're "exempt" from tax find that retailers don't fall so easily for such fraud.


Those who have accepted the responsibility of collecting sales tax for the state face stiff penalties (like $600 per incident) for not collecting sales tax where due. You'd think that after several years all the mega corporations which have my Certificate 'on file' (i.e. have accepted it and it is in their system/records) would have purged me from their database and cut me off if there were any problem. To date not a single one has.

Admit it Quantum, you're a closet statist - it bugs the hell out of you when someone doesn't fall into the state's line of control.


I beg to differ!

He is NOT a closet statist!

[I am me, I am free]

Sales and Use Tax "Exemption Numbers" or "Tax Exempt" Numbers do not exist.

D'OH!!!

(as stated on the second form here - http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxinfo/taxforms/01-339.pdf

which I very rarely use anymore, I use my own)


Like Ximmy had recounted, customers who claim they're "exempt" from tax find that retailers don't fall so easily for such fraud.


Those who have accepted the responsibility of collecting sales tax for the state face stiff penalties (like $600 per incident) for not collecting sales tax where due. You'd think that after several years all the mega corporations which have my Certificate 'on file' (i.e. have accepted it and it is in their system/records) would have purged me from their database and cut me off if there were any problem. To date not a single one has.

Admit it Quantum, you're a closet statist - it bugs the hell out of you when someone doesn't fall into the state's line of control.


I beg to differ!

He is NOT a closet statist!





Yeah, you're right. I stand corrected. lol

[Phoenix]

He is NOT a closet statist!


How funny that you, someone who claims to cherish free enterprise and the rights of businessmen, would not only associate with, but defend a con-man like Sukhoi Fan, who perpetrates confidence tricks on businessowners, knowing that they could suffer substantial penalties for trusting that his fraudulent "exemptions" were presented in good faith.

If defending the little people makes me a "statist," then so be it. I'm not the one acting like government, and using fraud as my modus operandi, though.

[I am me, I am free]

Quantum, I'm beginning to suspect you're more than a mere passive statist, I get the impression you actively work for the beast while attempting to maintain a 'cover' that you're engaged in something else entirely.

Furthereth I sayeth not.

[sirgonzo420]

He is NOT a closet statist!


How funny that you, someone who claims to cherish free enterprise and the rights of businessmen, would not only associate with, but defend a con-man like Sukhoi Fan, who perpetrates confidence tricks on businessowners, knowing that they could suffer substantial penalties for trusting that his fraudulent "exemptions" were presented in good faith.

If defending the little people makes me a "statist," then so be it. I'm not the one acting like government, and using fraud as my modus operandi, though.


If he doesn't owe sales tax, he doesn't owe it. It's that simple - and the business owner does not have to collect taxes not owed.

Where is your evidence that sukhoi is a conman?

Who is he conning? Just because he doesn't allow himself to be conned as often as others do does not make him a conman.

How is he like the government?

And yes, you do use fraud as your MO every time you deny being Quantum.

You are a statist and you are proud of it. It's ok. I don't hate you for it.

If Herr Hitler were here you would be praising the State from the rooftops.

[ximmy]

HERE IS TODAY'S RIDDLE:

Who among us,

Pays virtually no sales tax anywhere he makes a purchase.

Has a friend in Texas who owns land and pays no property tax.

Fills out applications and puts Zeros in the area for his social security number.

WOW... what a guy!!! :D

ximy

[horseshoe3]

I fill out zeros for my son's number. Then the IRS promptly denies the exemption and child tax credit. Maybe I'm crazy, maybe I'm brilliant. Time will tell, but I just couldn't feed my son to the beast. I consider $1500 per year a small price for doing right by my children.

[cedarchopper]

HERE IS TODAY'S RIDDLE:

Who among us,

Pays virtually no sales tax anywhere he makes a purchase.

Has a friend in Texas who owns land and pays no property tax.

Fills out applications and puts Zeros in the area for his social security number.

WOW... what a guy!!! :D

ximy


In Texas, which is the state in the subject of your question, there are many exemptions for taxes. Purchases for Farm Use are exempt from sales tax...even fuel taxes. If you are a 100% disabled Vet, you are exempt from Property Tax. Agricultural Land is exempt from Property Taxes (you are taxed on the productivity of the land, if taxes are applicable).

If you want to make the effort, you can find exemptions for most State taxes.

Your question is proposed as if it is not possible to be tax exempt, and you are incorrect in your assumption.

[Phoenix]

Quantum, I'm beginning to suspect you're more than a mere passive statist, I get the impression you actively work for the beast while attempting to maintain a 'cover' that you're engaged in something else entirely.

Furthereth I sayeth not.


One could also believe that you are an agent provocateur peddling schemes of which you have NO PROOF WHATSOEVER in order to ascertain the identities of those who would wish such schemes worked.

I hope you don't think your idiotic "Quantum" mantra is going to make me go away.

[Phoenix]

If he doesn't owe sales tax, he doesn't owe it. It's that simple - and the business owner does not have to collect taxes not owed.


Once his scheme is discovered, guess who will be paying the uncollected taxes? The business owner...and, they'll get a hefty fine, because they believed the phony "exemptions" presented were given in good faith.




And yes, you do use fraud as your MO every time you deny being Quantum.


So I see the Three Stooges have latched on to something, since they have NO PROOF WHATSOEVER that the schemes they defend actually work.

As with the rest, you have NO PROOF WHATSOEVER that I am "Quantum."

[Phoenix]

HERE IS TODAY'S RIDDLE:

Who among us,

Pays virtually no sales tax anywhere he makes a purchase.

Has a friend in Texas who owns land and pays no property tax.

Fills out applications and puts Zeros in the area for his social security number.

WOW... what a guy!!! :D

ximy


In Texas, which is the state in the subject of you question, there are many exemption for taxes. Purchases for Farm Use are exempt from sales tax...even fuel taxes. If you are a 100% disabled Vet, you are exempt from Property Tax. Agricultural Land is exempt from Property Taxes (you are taxed on the productivity of the land, if taxes are applicable).

If you want to make the effort, you can find exemptions for most State taxes.

Your question is proposed as if it is not possible to be tax exempt, and you are incorrect in your assumption.




Ximmy is correct, of course. She's talking about Sukhoi Fan, not some hypothetical scenario you imply.

Do these "exemptions" work in Peru, as well?

[sirgonzo420]

If he doesn't owe sales tax, he doesn't owe it. It's that simple - and the business owner does not have to collect taxes not owed.


Once his scheme is discovered, guess who will be paying the uncollected taxes? The business owner...and, they'll get a hefty fine, because they believed the phony "exemptions" presented were given in good faith.




And yes, you do use fraud as your MO every time you deny being Quantum.


So I see the Three Stooges have latched on to something, since they have NO PROOF WHATSOEVER that the schemes they defend actually work.

As with the rest, you have NO PROOF WHATSOEVER that I am "Quantum."


Why do you assume his "exemption" is 'phony'?

Not everyone is liable in every case. Some are EXEMPT.

You talk about PROOF PROOF PROOF until you talk about religion and then it's all FAITH FAITH FAITH.

Why is that?

Why are you trying to get I am me, I am free to display his personal information here?

Even if he did, you would claim his evidence is faked, and then he will have put his personal information on the internet for nothing.

In that book that you hold to so dearly and faithfully (but without any rational thought or 'proof'), there is a little sumthin' about "not casting pearls before swine".

Clearly, you will remain unconvinced no matter what, so why should he humor you?

Just pay the tribute to your master and don't worry about others who may or may not pay that tribute.

[Phoenix]

Why do you assume his "exemption" is 'phony'?


I don't "assume" it's phony. I KNOW it's phony. He won't present any evidence of a VALID exemption, even without disclosing his personal information.




Not everyone is liable in every case. Some are EXEMPT.


This is the mantra incessantly repeated in the tax resister movement...especially by each and every one of the adherents who is or has been put in a cage.

The government does not provide "exemptions" for people to disregard "the intent of the Legislature." This is not a matter of philosophy, on whether we "should have to" pay tax or not. It's a matter of REALITY. Something people are, obviously, disconnecting from at a phenomenal rate. :o




You talk about PROOF PROOF PROOF until you talk about religion and then it's all FAITH FAITH FAITH.


Is this all you've got? "You are Quantum" and "the Bible is a hoax"? OMG, give it up, SG!

We're not talking about faith, we're talking about the REALITY that one does not simply escape governmental taxation and tyranny with WORDS or pieces of paper. My God, how disoriented or delusional have people become, to believe that? Governments that kill people will back down from magic words? Come on, you're smarter than this!




Why are you trying to get I am me, I am free to display his personal information here?[/b]


If he can provide ANY PROOF WHATSOEVER that establishes what he says is true, or even beyond a reasonable doubt, without any of his personal information, I'm satisfied. It's easy to make claims that can't be verified.

What claims can I make that you will believe without question?




In that book that you hold to so dearly and faithfully (but without any rational thought or 'proof'), there is a little sumthin' about "not casting pearls before swine".


You like to cite the Bible when convenient, but fail to acknowledge the other parts that are inconvenient. Surely you remember the part about giving Caesar his money back? Christ didn't say taxes were Godly, only that the coin had Caesar's face on it.




Clearly, you will remain unconvinced no matter what, so why should he humor you?


Sukhoi Fan has gone on with this for YEARS at GIM, and now here. NO PROOF WHATSOEVER, it's been a continuous "trust me - trust me" about his magic powers of controlling government with his will.




Just pay the tribute to your master and don't worry about others who may or may not pay that tribute.


When lies are put forth as fact, I shall always speak up.

[horseshoe3]

Ximmy is correct, of course. She's talking about Sukhoi Fan, not some hypothetical scenario you imply.

Do these "exemptions" work in Peru, as well?


It's not hypothetical, it's STATE LAW. While I agree with you that there are no magic words to get yourself out of a tax that's owed, you are dead wrong when you claim that there are NO exemptions. Cedarchopper was absolutely correct in his statements about Texas. Here in KS, I take the agricultural exemption all the time. It applies to supplies, repairs and fuel. Most of the time there is no paperwork - it is such a common exemption that you can tell the clerk it's for farm use and they know exactly what you mean. There are a few who have an in-store form that they want you to sign stating that it is a qualified purchase. In addition to the ag exemption, I went to a private, non-profit college for the first two years. When traveling as part of the sports teams, the college would buy us meals. The coach presented a copy of the tax exempt form and no tax was charged. Also, whenever you checkout at Sam's Club, they will ask if any of this is for resale (in my state at least). The reason they ask is so they can remove the sales tax.

As implied above, I get a little frustrated with people who claim that you can use a secret handshake or whatever to remove tax liability. But you need to realize how ridiculous your position is that there are NO EXEMPTIONS.

[mightymanx]

So to answer the origional question after 2 pages so far.

NO

[cedarchopper]

So to answer the origional question after 2 pages so far.

NO


Disabled Veterans and Agricultural Land...both exempt from Property Tax.

[Book]

I'm not interested in anecdotes, legal mumbo jumbo, books for sale on how to do it, opinions, name calling, U.S. code citations, or anything else but DIRECT EVIDENCE FROM SOMEONE WHO HAS ACCOMPLISHED IT that true (untaxed) property ownership is possible in the U.S.

Anyone? ???



After twenty-four hours and numerous posts...............................NOPE, NO DIRECT EVIDENCE. NO ONE.

:D

[Phoenix]

I'm not interested in anecdotes, legal mumbo jumbo, books for sale on how to do it, opinions, name calling, U.S. code citations, or anything else but DIRECT EVIDENCE FROM SOMEONE WHO HAS ACCOMPLISHED IT that true (untaxed) property ownership is possible in the U.S.

Anyone? ???



After twenty-four hours and numerous posts...............................NOPE, NO DIRECT EVIDENCE. NO ONE.

:D


And after 24 months, there still won't be any.

[Gaillo]

So to answer the origional question after 2 pages so far.

NO


Disabled Veterans and Agricultural Land...both exempt from Property Tax.


Huh? My father is a disabled veteran, and he pays property tax EVERY YEAR despite the fact that it continues to go up and he often has a REALLY hard time coming up with it... I've even loaned/gifted him cash on more than one occasion to make it happen.

My uncle owns a fairly largish (200+ acre) plot of potato farm, he pays every year on his land as well.

Tell me how they can take advantage of this "exemption" you are talking about, please? ???

[Phoenix]

Tell me how they can take advantage of this "exemption" you are talking about, please? ???


That'll be $39.95.

[7th trump]

So to answer the origional question after 2 pages so far.

NO


Disabled Veterans and Agricultural Land...both exempt from Property Tax.


Huh? My father is a disabled veteran, and he pays property tax EVERY YEAR despite the fact that it continues to go up and he often has a REALLY hard time coming up with it... I've even loaned/gifted him cash on more than one occasion to make it happen.

My uncle owns a fairly largish (200+ acre) plot of potato farm, he pays every year on his land as well.

Tell me how they can take advantage of this "exemption" you are talking about, please? ???

Here in Iowa if you have a declared orchard the land the trees are on, and it can be walnut trees to harvest walnuts is tax exempt.

[Ares]

Huh? My father is a disabled veteran, and he pays property tax EVERY YEAR despite the fact that it continues to go up and he often has a REALLY hard time coming up with it... I've even loaned/gifted him cash on more than one occasion to make it happen.

My uncle owns a fairly largish (200+ acre) plot of potato farm, he pays every year on his land as well.

Tell me how they can take advantage of this "exemption" you are talking about, please?

You'll have to go to the assessors office and more than likely the county clerk and file for the exemption. Read your states/county Property tax code (A good portion of it is probably on-line.) and it will have a section called Exemptions. Read through there and see if your Uncle and Father qualify. If they do inform them of it and have them file the paperwork.

[TheNocturnalEgyptian]

If you would KINDLY click the link I provided, you will see that he has over 3,000 hours of audio posted for free.


How exactly do you think I learned the details posted above if I didn't click on the link?




The CD is a law school enrollment package. You only need it if you're going to join his law school.


"Law school," LOL. LAW SCHOOL! HA HA HA

Yeah, join Phoenix's "medical school" and become a doctor in six weeks! Only $1995...that's with a decimal and two zeroes at the end.

::)




And like I was alluding to, yes, he is using the Mosiac law to get out of paying taxes. He follows the Mosiac law. It's his decision. I will probably never find myself in the same position, but it works DAMN well for him.


It doesn't work at all.




If you're not going to actually listen to one of the many, many, many free interviews/classes, then what can I do?


I could listen to hours of lecture on why the Earth is flat, but why?




And yeah, Phoenix, he probably pays fuel taxes.


Ah, but you said: "He pays no taxes of any type." (bold in your original)




Aren't you even the least bit interested in how he did that?


Considering you LIED above, I would, rationally, assume that your assertions about Mr. Gordon's "law education" are, shall we say, "less than credible."



It's not so much that I consciously lied. It's more like I made a mistake and then admitted it in my next post.

Whatever though. Have fun believing whatever you like. You certainly haven't changed my mind with your posts and I don't seem to have changed yours. Don't impasses feel great?

[Phoenix]

It's not so much that I consciously lied. It's more like I made a mistake and then admitted it in my next post.


OK, I will accept that you made an honest mistake of hyperbole.




Whatever though. Have fun believing whatever you like. You certainly haven't changed my mind with your posts and I don't seem to have changed yours. Don't impasses feel great?


I would propose to you that you are associating with a cult that believes cultish declarations, not facts based in reality.

[UFM]

OK, folks.
It seems like every month or so, someone posts an article on how to "get out of paying property tax" through various methods - obtaining Allodial title, un-recording property, etc. Here is my question:

HAS ANYONE HERE actually LEGALLY ACCOMPLISHED this, or DIRECTLY knows someone who has done it... and not ended up losing their property?

I'm not interested in anecdotes, legal mumbo jumbo, books for sale on how to do it, opinions, name calling, U.S. code citations, or anything else but DIRECT EVIDENCE FROM SOMEONE WHO HAS ACCOMPLISHED IT that true (untaxed) property ownership is possible in the U.S.

Anyone? ???


nobody here has and if they claim to they be lyin.

[Joe King]

Whatever though. Have fun believing whatever you like. You certainly haven't changed my mind with your posts and I don't seem to have changed yours. Don't impasses feel great?


I would propose to you that you are associating with a cult that believes cultish declarations, not facts based in reality.



Hi. I hope you'll pardon my interjection, but after reading this thread I have a question for you Phoenix. (or anyone else for that matter)

Now that it has apparently been ascertained that no one posting on this forum has direct, first-person knowledge with respect to the OP's question, has Allodial Title to land ever existed in America?
Allowing, of course, for the Emminent Domain clause of the Constitution.







It's not so much that I consciously lied. It's more like I made a mistake and then admitted it in my next post.


OK, I will accept that you made an honest mistake of hyperbole.

Yea, points for him.
Besides, who doesn't make a mistake from time to time, right Phoenix? ;)
I've read a couple mistakes in this thread alone. :D

[Phoenix]

has Allodial Title to land ever existed in America?


Nope. And please don't quote me some esoteric "law" you've found. Private property is always subject to the superior force of the government.

FORCE is "the law."

[Spectrism]

You ALL had best consider this: very SOON you will need to know how to be exempt from any taxation.

It is good to study these threads and look at the tangled webs of ensnarement that our law-makers have woven to entrap us all. Those who refuse to see that God is the Creator and originator of our rights will have no escape. There is a Messiah who will be coming back soon, but not before some bad things play out. The evil one is using the governments to tighten controls on everything. The money system is the core of that noose. You must be prepared to exit the money system. If you owe no taxes, there will be no taxes to pay. If you are not a profiteer in the money system, you will have no profits to be taxed.

Pray that you will know when to shed yourself of all things owned by the beast- employment, social security number, postal address, bank accounts, buying & selling. If it means that you have to leave many things and wealth behind, be prepared to do that. As time unfolds, we will know more.

[7th trump]

has Allodial Title to land ever existed in America?


Nope. And please don't quote me some esoteric "law" you've found. Private property is always subject to the superior force of the government.

FORCE is "the law."



Can you back your statement up with some sort of law that specifically says what you are stating.

[7th trump]

You ALL had best consider this: very SOON you will need to know how to be exempt from any taxation.

It is good to study these threads and look at the tangled webs of ensnarement that our law-makers have woven to entrap us all. Those who refuse to see that God is the Creator and originator of our rights will have no escape. There is a Messiah who will be coming back soon, but not before some bad things play out. The evil one is using the governments to tighten controls on everything. The money system is the core of that noose. You must be prepared to exit the money system. If you owe no taxes, there will be no taxes to pay. If you are not a profiteer in the money system, you will have no profits to be taxed.

Pray that you will know when to shed yourself of all things owned by the beast- employment, social security number, postal address, bank accounts, buying & selling. If it means that you have to leave many things and wealth behind, be prepared to do that. As time unfolds, we will know more.

As all ways Spec, I enjoy your posts as I do Jets.
However we have a few members in this forum that do not want any type of thinking outside the box to happen.
Phoenix without any knowledge of the law is trying his best to keep the sheep sheeple and scared to think for themselves.

[Book]

Nope. And please don't quote me some esoteric "law" you've found. Private property is always subject to the superior force of the government.

FORCE is "the law."





Can you back your statement up with some sort of law that specifically says what you are stating.



http://benfrank.net/nuke/ftaa112003/011police_brutality2.jpg

http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/media/police_NY.jpg

OW! OW! OW! OW!

:oo-->

[Book]

...Allodial Title...



http://www.northcoastjournal.com/011305/cover0113-benchsleeper.jpg

http://www.livegeist.com/live/benchbum/bumonbench2.jpg

Buy their HOW TO AVOID PAYING TAXES book for only $29.95

:oo-->

[7th trump]

Nope. And please don't quote me some esoteric "law" you've found. Private property is always subject to the superior force of the government.

FORCE is "the law."





Can you back your statement up with some sort of law that specifically says what you are stating.



http://benfrank.net/nuke/ftaa112003/011police_brutality2.jpg

http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/media/police_NY.jpg

OW! OW! OW! OW!

:oo-->

I'm not scared like you are book.
I grew up on a farm where getting a beating with a baton isnt near as bad as being kicked by 1200 lb bulls and cows and dealing with 200 and 300 lbs pigs that like to chomp down on your leg.
The worst was feeding the damn turkey with their talons and spares.
I'm just not scared to defend myself physically or statutorily I'm versed in both enough to know where I stand within the law.
I know you do not like Jet be knew where to stand within the law or law forms amnd muted the court which we all know you cannot stand to watch and deny the truth.

[Phoenix]

I'm not scared


I'm not scared, either. But I am also not SUICIDAL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Kahl

[Book]

FREEDOM! CONSTITUTION! BIBLE! BLAH! BLAH! BLAH!



http://thebeatofphilly.com/files/2010/05/Tent-City.jpg

Yeah...the American Flag is a nice touch in this thread about not paying your Property Taxes. Nobody here has offered any evidence that they legally avoided paying property taxes unlike their neighbors..lol.

:D

[Book]

Those who refuse to see that God is the Creator and originator of our rights will have no escape.



http://voicetexas1.net/images/sermon-on-the-mount.jpg

The Bible states that hostile questioners tried to trap Jesus into taking an explicit and dangerous stand on whether Jews should or should not pay taxes to the Roman occupation. They anticipated that Jesus would oppose the tax, for Luke’s Gospels explains their purpose was “to hand him over to the power and authority of the governor.”[3] The governor was Pilate, and he was the man responsible for the collecting of Rome's taxes in Judea. At first the questioners flattered Jesus by praising his integrity, impartiality and devotion to truth. Then they asked him whether or not it is right for Jews to pay the taxes demanded by Caesar. In the gospel of Mark, the additional, truly provocative question is asked, "Should we pay or shouldn't we?" [4] Jesus first called them hypocrites, and then asked one of them to produce a Roman coin that would be suitable for paying Caesar’s tax. One of them showed him a Roman coin, and he asked them whose name and inscription were on it. They answered, “Caesar’s,” and he responded “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and give to God what is God’s.”

Render unto Caesar... -Jesus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Render_unto_Caesar...)

:oo-->

[I am me, I am free]

“Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and give to God what is God’s.”

Only the morons don't get it: Give God what is right, not what is left.

Gotta love it when the morons take that quote completely out of context to support the moneychangers, their corporate state ('principalities' in the Bible), and spiritual wickedness in high places. They NEVER use the entire quote. How convenient for them.

[wildcard]

“Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and give to God what is God’s.”

Only the morons don't get it: Give God what is right, not what is left.

Gotta love it when the morons take that quote completely out of context to support the moneychangers, their corporate state ('principalities' in the Bible), and spiritual wickedness in high places. They NEVER use the entire quote. How convenient for them.


So you're saying God wants his 10% off the top? ;D

[Spectrism]

I want you to notice a key word in this-

Mar 12:12 And they sought to lay hold on him, but feared the people: for they knew that he had spoken the parable against them: and they left him, and went their way.
Mar 12:13 And they sent unto him certain of the Pharisees and of the Herodians, to catch him in his words.
Mar 12:14 And when they were come, they said unto him, Teacher, we know that you are true, and care for no man: for you regard not the person of men, but teach the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?
Mar 12:15 Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt you me? bring me a penny, that I may see it.
Mar 12:16 And they brought it. And he said unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar's.
Mar 12:17 And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marveled at him.


"Lawful" is in compliance with the LAW of God. Legality is a human construct.
Human law may or may not be lawful, although it is legal.



Peter was quick to mouth off on things, forgetting his place, when he should have remained silent.
It seems that many of us are the same.

Peter was called by the Creator of all that was created to be his minister. We each are called out of this world (and do not neglect the calling) to join the family of God.

In this scenario, the Messiah and his disciples were traveling. The Messiah had gone ahead into a house.

Mat 17:24 And when they came to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Does not your teacher pay tribute?
Mat 17:25 He [Peter] said, Yes. And when he came into the house, Jesus preceded him, saying, What think you, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
Mat 17:26 Peter said unto him, Of strangers. Jesus said unto him, Then are the children free.
Mat 17:27 However, lest we should offend them, go to the sea, and cast a hook, and take up the fish that first comes up; and when you have opened its mouth, you shall find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and you.


Since Peter verbally committed his Master inappropriately, he was sent back to his profession- fishing, to cover his mistaken belief that he was engaged in the money system.

Those who are saved by Messiah are children of the King and not subject to taxes or tribute payments.

[I am me, I am free]

“Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and give to God what is God’s.”

Only the morons don't get it: Give God what is right, not what is left.

Gotta love it when the morons take that quote completely out of context to support the moneychangers, their corporate state ('principalities' in the Bible), and spiritual wickedness in high places. They NEVER use the entire quote. How convenient for them.


So you're saying God wants his 10% off the top? ;D


That's strictly between you and the Source. It's none of my business.

Be wary of anyone who wants to act as intermediary between you and the Source, ESPECIALLY those who are very loud about telling you your COMPELLED duty to the state (man's beast system).

[Phoenix]

http://voicetexas1.net/images/sermon-on-the-mount.jpg

The Bible states that hostile questioners tried to trap Jesus into taking an explicit and dangerous stand on whether Jews should or should not pay taxes to the Roman occupation. They anticipated that Jesus would oppose the tax, for Luke’s Gospels explains their purpose was “to hand him over to the power and authority of the governor.”[3] The governor was Pilate, and he was the man responsible for the collecting of Rome's taxes in Judea. At first the questioners flattered Jesus by praising his integrity, impartiality and devotion to truth. Then they asked him whether or not it is right for Jews to pay the taxes demanded by Caesar. In the gospel of Mark, the additional, truly provocative question is asked, "Should we pay or shouldn't we?" [4] Jesus first called them hypocrites, and then asked one of them to produce a Roman coin that would be suitable for paying Caesar’s tax. One of them showed him a Roman coin, and he asked them whose name and inscription were on it. They answered, “Caesar’s,” and he responded “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and give to God what is God’s.”

Render unto Caesar... -Jesus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Render_unto_Caesar...)

:oo-->


A very, very important point is asserted by one of our non-Christian (a good Samaritan!) fellows...

Jesus Christ never endorsed paying taxes. He did not say "it is the law," nor did He say "it is not the law" to pay taxes. He simply evaded the question, and pointed out that Caesar's image was on the Roman coins used to pay taxes.

For most of His ministry on Earth, Christ did NOT actively confront the "authorities." He evaded them when they caught wind of His dissemination of Truth. Only in the end, when He had to undertake His destiny, did He allow himself to be captured, tried, and executed.

[Phoenix]

Those who are saved by Messiah are children of the King and not subject to taxes or tribute payments.


A variant of the blasphemous...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

Matthew 10:28

Every human, including every Christian, is subject to being caged or killed by the satanic regimes on Earth. What they cannot destroy is the soul.

When the taxman cometh, you either give him your "Federal" Reserve Notes, or he takes your "private" property, your liberty, or maybe your life.

[Phoenix]

the Source


A curious term you've used for a long time.

In fact, "the Source" is a euphemism for Lucifer in Masonic and Kabalistic ideology. It is a synonym for the "Great Architect of the Universe," who is not Yahweh the Authentic God, but the phony Judeo-Freemasonic "god" Jahbulon.



man's beast system


Man's beast system is run by Judeo-Freemasons and New Age kooks like David Icke.

[Joe King]

has Allodial Title to land ever existed in America?


Nope. And please don't quote me some esoteric "law" you've found. Private property is always subject to the superior force of the government.

FORCE is "the law."


Ok. So if Allodial Title has never has existed in America, have property taxes have always existed in America?
I am specifically referring to the type of property tax we're familiar with today, and as referenced by the OP.
i.e. a tax based upon land valuation/use that presumably is used to pay for local infrastructure.

[7th trump]

I'm not scared


I'm not scared, either. But I am also not SUICIDAL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Kahl

Really!
Not scared?
You do nothing but inject fear with your pictures in your smear canpaign to keep the sheep sheeple.
Its with out a doubt you are scared other wise you'd not be in the comrad social camp you are in.

[7th trump]

has Allodial Title to land ever existed in America?


Nope. And please don't quote me some esoteric "law" you've found. Private property is always subject to the superior force of the government.

FORCE is "the law."


Ok. So if Allodial Title has never has existed in America, have property taxes have always existed in America?
I am specifically referring to the type of property tax we're familiar with today, and as referenced by the OP.
i.e. a tax based upon land valuation/use that presumably is used to pay for local infrastructure.

No, property taxes have not always existed in America.
Mr King you pay property taxes because the city has authority to impose those sort of taxes because the fedeal government allows imposition of property taxes on their subjects. Your property must first be on the city registery in order for the city to assess it. That registery has not always existed and you can get the history of this registery from the assessors office themselves.
If you go to your city assessors office ask to see the statute that gives them authority to tax you.
They should give you the statute that if you follow it all the why you'll see that its the feds who set the rate the city taxes you by.
Somewhere along that line of tracking down the authority you'll see "US citizen" mentioned. This is where you need to get ahold of your "Citizens Aid" or "ombudsman" office as they sometimes called if your state has one. I beleive each state has one and they are really helpful in getting legal answers you seek. They've helped me in so many ways. They will give you answers that your congressman cannot like what definition and who is encompassed as a US citizen.
What you'll find, and against what our GSUS mossad quatloos.com agents like "Book" and Phoenix" on this forum cant stand, is that a US citizen the city assesses are in fact the 14th amendment citizens who cannot own land outright or access the 9th or 10th amendments that the US Senate outlines in one of their official documents.


Ok flame away Book and Phoenix. We enjoy hearing your tripe even though none of us really take you two seriously.
Theres a legal reason why Book and Phoenix will not answer any questions about law and statutes. They cannot answer any questions because they are in the legal field. And if they say anything contrary to the law they can be held accountable for it if their identity became known. Thye act just the quatloos.com scum over at that site. They never answer any legal questions because they know that the social and communism agenda they push goes against the law and can be prosecuted for it. So what they are left with is simple scare tactics that doesnt cross any legal line they can get in trouble with.
They are quatloos.com

[Book]

Ok. So if Allodial Title has never has existed in America, have property taxes have always existed in America?



http://pdblogs.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/wagon-train.jpg

People have always been motivated to move away from Oppression to Freedom. First thing they do when they arrive in the New Land is organize THEMSELVES into a town council, hire a gunslinger and call him Sheriff, then tax the newly-arriving rubes...lol.

Today in 2010 there is no New Land to move to anymore. Not even New Zealand. Everybody is now branded with a social security number. "Real Money" is no longer a haven for deadbeat dads or ex-cons or those attempting to "start fresh" with hidden assets and a new name.

:oo-->

[wildcard]

Ok flame away Book and Phoenix. We enjoy hearing your tripe even though none of us really take you two seriously.

How many you have in there with you legion? Look at the thanks received compared to yours.

[7th trump]

Ok flame away Book and Phoenix. We enjoy hearing your tripe even though none of us really take you two seriously.

How many you have in there with you legion? Look at the thanks received compared to yours.

Hahahahahaha...............
Yeah....ok!

[Joe King]

has Allodial Title to land ever existed in America?


Nope. And please don't quote me some esoteric "law" you've found. Private property is always subject to the superior force of the government.

FORCE is "the law."


Ok. So if Allodial Title has never has existed in America, have property taxes have always existed in America?
I am specifically referring to the type of property tax we're familiar with today, and as referenced by the OP.
i.e. a tax based upon land valuation/use that presumably is used to pay for local infrastructure.

No, property taxes have not always existed in America.
Mr King you pay property taxes because the city has authority to impose those sort of taxes because the Federal government allows imposition of property taxes on their subjects. Your property must first be on the city registery in order for the city to assess it. That registry has not always existed and you can get the history of this registry from the assessors office themselves.
If you go to your city assessors office ask to see the statute that gives them authority to tax you.
They should give you the statute that if you follow it all the why you'll see that its the feds who set the rate the city taxes you by.
Somewhere along that line of tracking down the authority you'll see "US citizen" mentioned. This is where you need to get ahold of your "Citizens Aid" or "ombudsman" office as they sometimes called if your state has one. I believe each state has one and they are really helpful in getting legal answers you seek. They've helped me in so many ways. They will give you answers that your congressman cannot like what definition and who is encompassed as a US citizen.
What you'll find, and against what our GSUS mossad quatloos.com agents like "Book" and Phoenix" on this forum cant stand, is that a US citizen the city assesses are in fact the 14th amendment citizens who cannot own land outright or access the 9th or 10th amendments that the US Senate outlines in one of their official documents.

Hi. Thanks for responding.
First, if what you're saying is true, why is this not taught in American History class? Seems it would clear a lot of things up if it were. I mean, it can't do the .gov any real good to cloud the truth from the people, while simultaneously allowing them to believe otherwise. That's potentially a recipe for Revolution once the truth becomes openly apparent to enough people.

Secondly, is it possible that you could demonstrate in the law what it is you're saying? I'm not saying you're wrong, just that it'd go a long way to actually see the State statutes and/or local ordinances where the law refers to what you are saying. {that the authority is all based upon ones Federal citizenship status}
I'm very interested in understanding how we've gotten to the point we're at as a Nation, because if we don't fully understand how we got here, how can we ever get back?

[UFM]

has Allodial Title to land ever existed in America?


Nope. And please don't quote me some esoteric "law" you've found. Private property is always subject to the superior force of the government.

FORCE is "the law."




thrasymacus

[Phoenix]

First, if what you're saying is true, why is this not taught in American History class? Seems it would clear a lot of things up if it were. I mean, it can't do the .gov any real good to cloud the truth from the people, while simultaneously allowing them to believe otherwise. That's potentially a recipe for Revolution once the truth becomes openly apparent to enough people.


I'm really sorry that you, apparently, believe that governments have an operating principle of honesty. In fact, governments aim to guarantee their own existence. Lies are primary instruments of nearly all of them in order to accomplish that mission.




Secondly, is it possible that you could demonstrate in the law what it is you're saying? I'm not saying you're wrong, just that it'd go a long way to actually see the State statutes and/or local ordinances where the law refers to what you are saying. {that the authority is all based upon ones Federal citizenship status}
I'm very interested in understanding how we've gotten to the point we're at as a Nation, because if we don't fully understand how we got here, how can we ever get back?


Government does not follow its own laws. And governments rarely explicitly declare that they are all-powerful. Even in the USSR or DDR, they claimed to be "democratic."

Governments are force. "Do as we say." No statute enabling it? Irrelevant.

[Phoenix]

has Allodial Title to land ever existed in America?


Nope. And please don't quote me some esoteric "law" you've found. Private property is always subject to the superior force of the government.

FORCE is "the law."




thrasymacus


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrasymachus

[UFM]

has Allodial Title to land ever existed in America?


Nope. And please don't quote me some esoteric "law" you've found. Private property is always subject to the superior force of the government.

FORCE is "the law."




thrasymacus


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrasymachus


justice is he advantage of the stronger - politics by the barrel of a gun

[Joe King]

First, if what you're saying is true, why is this not taught in American History class? Seems it would clear a lot of things up if it were. I mean, it can't do the .gov any real good to cloud the truth from the people, while simultaneously allowing them to believe otherwise. That's potentially a recipe for Revolution once the truth becomes openly apparent to enough people.


I'm really sorry that you, apparently, believe that governments have an operating principle of honesty. In fact, governments aim to guarantee their own existence. Lies are primary instruments of nearly all of them in order to accomplish that mission.




Secondly, is it possible that you could demonstrate in the law what it is you're saying? I'm not saying you're wrong, just that it'd go a long way to actually see the State statutes and/or local ordinances where the law refers to what you are saying. {that the authority is all based upon ones Federal citizenship status}
I'm very interested in understanding how we've gotten to the point we're at as a Nation, because if we don't fully understand how we got here, how can we ever get back?


Government does not follow its own laws. And governments rarely explicitly declare that they are all-powerful. Even in the USSR or DDR, they claimed to be "democratic."

Governments are force. "Do as we say." No statute enabling it? Irrelevant.
So if I understand you correctly, what you're saying is that "rule of law" is dead in America? Really and truly? And that one can be ticketed/arrested for something that's not against the law? Gosh, that seems pretty harsh. Are you sure? Although if true, they should probably teach that in School, too.

[wildcard]

Government: If you refuse to pay unjust taxes, your property will be confiscated. If you attempt to defend your property, you will be arrested. If you resist arrest, you will be clubbed. If you defend yourself against clubbing, you will be shot dead. These procedures are known as the Rule of Law.

- Edward Abbey

[Book]

So if I understand you correctly, what you're saying is that "rule of law" is dead in America? Really and truly?



http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/01/home-state-democrats-reportedly-plan-lavish-birthday-party-rangel/

:oo-->

[Phoenix]

Although if true, they should probably teach that in School, too.


The purpose of skool is to teach one to be an obedient servant of the MIC.

[Joe King]

So if I understand you correctly, what you're saying is that "rule of law" is dead in America? Really and truly?



http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/01/home-state-democrats-reportedly-plan-lavish-birthday-party-rangel/

:oo-->
While I'm certainly no Rangel fan, that article only seems to reinforce that Rule of Law is alive and well in America.

What I read stated that he was accused of a crime and will be facing trial this Fall.
Hasn't the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" always been the Cornerstone of "Rule of Law" in America?

[Book]

What I read stated that he was accused of a crime and will be facing trial this Fall.
Hasn't the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" always been the Cornerstone of "Rule of Law" in America?



How's that working out for Edgar Steele today?

:oo-->

[Joe King]

What I read stated that he was accused of a crime and will be facing trial this Fall.
Hasn't the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" always been the Cornerstone of "Rule of Law" in America?



How's that working out for Edgar Steele today?

:oo-->
Are you saying that Edgar Steele won't be getting his Day in Court?
Also, last I checked, Rangel wasn't being accused of trying to off his wife. Or anyone else, for that matter.
However, from the accounts I've seen both are still presumed innocent at this point.

[Book]

However, from the accounts I've seen both are still presumed innocent at this point.



Steele is in jail without bail and Rangel is walking around free as BOTH are presumed innocent and await trial.

:oo-->

[Joe King]

However, from the accounts I've seen both are still presumed innocent at this point.



Steele is in jail without bail and Rangel is walking around free as BOTH are presumed innocent and await trial.

:oo-->
Comparing the crimes they're accused of is like comparing apples and oranges. Last I checked, Rangel {as slimey as he may be} isn't accused of trying to kill anyone.
i.e. ethics violations, however illegal they may be, generally will not put your wifes car in danger of going Boom!

Unless of course you prefer to call being charged with attempting to bomb your wifes car an "ethics violation". :oo-->

[Phoenix]

Unless of course you prefer to call being charged with attempting to bomb your wifes car an "ethics violation". :oo-->


I prefer to call it what it is: a government frame-up.

[Joe King]

Unless of course you prefer to call being charged with attempting to bomb your wifes car an "ethics violation". :oo-->


I prefer to call it what it is: a government frame-up.


That's a very serious allegation.
Could you please show proof as to how it is you know that it was, in fact, a .gov frame up?

[Book]

Hasn't the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" always been the Cornerstone of "Rule of Law" in America?



All your posts after this one has Edgar Steele already convicted before his Trial has even been scheduled. Just scroll up to witness your selective admonishment for "innocent until proven guilty".

:D

[Joe King]

Hasn't the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" always been the Cornerstone of "Rule of Law" in America?

All your posts after this one has Edgar Steele already convicted before his Trial has even been scheduled. Just scroll up to witness your selective admonishment for "innocent until proven guilty".
:D

Could you show me a quote where I said he wasn't innocent until proven guilty?
After you compared his charges to Rangels, I merely pointed out that the seriousness of Mr. Steeles charges is why he can't post bond. Not that he was already guilty.

[Book]

Unless of course you prefer to call being charged with attempting to bomb your wifes car an "ethics violation". :oo-->


I prefer to call it what it is: a government frame-up.


That's a very serious allegation. Could you please show proof as to how it is you know that it was, in fact, a .gov frame up?



You obviously don't believe in "innocent until proven guilty". You demand no "proof" from the government while Edgar Steele rots in jail without bail. Steele's wife already stated she does not fear her husband and wants him freed immediately.

:oo-->

[Joe King]

Unless of course you prefer to call being charged with attempting to bomb your wifes car an "ethics violation". :oo-->

I prefer to call it what it is: a government frame-up.

That's a very serious allegation. Could you please show proof as to how it is you know that it was, in fact, a .gov frame up?

You obviously don't believe in "innocent until proven guilty". You demand no "proof" from the government while Edgar Steele rots in jail without bail. Steele's wife already stated she does not fear her husband and wants him freed immediately.
:oo-->
No, I did no such thing. You need to go back and re-re-read it again, this time remembering to allow for a little thing called "context".
I'll try to spell it out for you, 'k?
i.e. the "proof" I was asking Phoenix for was about him {Mr. Steele} being framed.
Phoenix posted it as a statement of fact that Mr. Steele was framed and I asked him {Phoenix} for proof of his allegation.

Do you follow?

[Phoenix]

Unless of course you prefer to call being charged with attempting to bomb your wifes car an "ethics violation". :oo-->


I prefer to call it what it is: a government frame-up.


That's a very serious allegation.
Could you please show proof as to how it is you know that it was, in fact, a .gov frame up?


Please read the Federal persecutor's complaint and then come back and try to tell us with a straight face that wasn't a textbook example of perjury.

[Book]

I'll try to spell it out for you, 'k?
i.e. the "proof" I was asking Phoenix for was about him {Mr. Steele} being framed.
Phoenix posted it as a statement of fact that Mr. Steele was framed and I asked him {Phoenix} for proof of his allegation.



Link us to your post demanding "proof" that Edgar Steele deserves to rot in jail without bail before Trial. You being all indignant and concerned about "innocent until proven guilty" regarding Charley Rangel.

:oo-->

[Joe King]

I'll try to spell it out for you, 'k?
i.e. the "proof" I was asking Phoenix for was about him {Mr. Steele} being framed.
Phoenix posted it as a statement of fact that Mr. Steele was framed and I asked him {Phoenix} for proof of his allegation.Link us to your post demanding "proof" that Edgar Steele deserves to rot in jail without bail before Trial. You being all indignant and concerned about "innocent until proven guilty" regarding Charley Rangel.
:oo-->

I never said he should rot in jail, just that I can understand how in some cases involving charges of trying to actually harm/kill another that the Court may be justified in not allowing someone to Bond out.

[Joe King]

Unless of course you prefer to call being charged with attempting to bomb your wifes car an "ethics violation". :oo-->

I prefer to call it what it is: a government frame-up.

That's a very serious allegation.
Could you please show proof as to how it is you know that it was, in fact, a .gov frame up?

Please read the Federal persecutor's complaint and then come back and try to tell us with a straight face that wasn't a textbook example of perjury.
Seeing as how you seem to be very familiar with the case, could you be so kind as to just post some quotes from it {the complaint} for me and anyone else who may be reading?

I'm just asking for some proof of your allegations that he was framed, that's all.
Or are we expected to simply take your word for it? :oo-->

[Phoenix]

Seeing as how you seem to be very familiar with the case, could you be so kind as to just post some quotes from it


No, you can go read it yourself.

I don't believe your "interest" is anything but disingenuous.




Or are we expected to simply take your word for it? :oo-->


The data is available for you to read; go find it.

[Joe King]

Seeing as how you seem to be very familiar with the case, could you be so kind as to just post some quotes from it
No, you can go read it yourself.
I don't believe your "interest" is anything but disingenuous.


Or are we expected to simply take your word for it? :oo-->
The data is available for you to read; go find it.

Why can't you show me proof of your allegations that he was framed?

I'm not saying he wasn't framed, but I really doubt that evidence of that would be written in the Complaint.
That would, after all, defeat the whole purpose of the complaint, wouldn't it?

So if you have proof he was framed, please share it. It would be of vital importance in the search for Justice.

[Phoenix]

Why can't you show me proof of your allegations that he was framed?


Sock, I'm not interested in proving anything to you. I've offered you the means to find the evidence, but you're not interested, since "Joe King" is just a sock-puppet for one of the other "big name" users here, whom, I am not certain yet.

Your "interest" in this case is completely disingenuous.

[Joe King]

Why can't you show me proof of your allegations that he was framed?
Sock, I'm not interested in proving anything to you. I've offered you the means to find the evidence, but you're not interested, since "Joe King" is just a sock-puppet for one of the other "big name" users here, whom, I am not certain yet.
Your "interest" in this case is completely disingenuous.


Sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong. I'm just someone who's been reading a lot here and decided to start posting some. That's all.

As for Mr. Steele, if he truly was framed, I am very interested in that.

Remember, you are the one that came forward with allegations that he was framed. Which is entirely different than simply saying they got the wrong guy.

If you know of proof that exists that shows he was framed, or that the wrong person is being held, it is your duty as a human being to come forward with it.


Proof please. We're waiting.

[wildcard]

Is that the royal we? Or do you have a mouse in your pocket?

[Joe King]

Is that the royal we? Or do you have a mouse in your pocket?

The former, of course. ;D

[Spectrism]

I am waiting.... LOL... so we have a quorum. WE.

I see Phoenix likes to require proofs for everything and then fails to cough up things when he is treated the same way.

I have to confess that I did not follow this thread... just saw the argument in recent posts.... so I don't have anything in this fight... yet. Maybe if I read the subject matter, I will be a little more vociferous in my comments.

[Joe King]

I am waiting.... LOL... so we have a quorum. WE.

I see Phoenix likes to require proofs for everything and then fails to cough up things when he is treated the same way.

I have to confess that I did not follow this thread... just saw the argument in recent posts.... so I don't have anything in this fight... yet. Maybe if I read the subject matter, I will be a little more vociferous in my comments.


Hi!
I wholeheartedly encourage you to do so. If what Phoenix alledges has any merit, it's a very serious matter and should not be taken lightly by anyone.
However, you'll have to do any research into the matter on your own, as Phoenix seems unwilling to even provide so much as a single quote from the Complaint, that he has presumably read, in order to even begin to back up his allegation.

Unless I'm mistaken, he did seem to imply such info was in the Complaint. If so, it should not constitute an undue burden upon him to provide evidence of that which he speaks. {or in this case, posts}

[Joe King]

Why can't you show me proof of your allegations that he was framed?
Sock, I'm not interested in proving anything to you. I've offered you the means to find the evidence, but you're not interested, since "Joe King" is just a sock-puppet for one of the other "big name" users here, whom, I am not certain yet.
Your "interest" in this case is completely disingenuous.
Sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong. I'm just someone who's been reading a lot here and decided to start posting some. That's all.
As for Mr. Steele, if he truly was framed, I am very interested in that.
Remember, you are the one that came forward with allegations that he was framed. Which is entirely different than simply saying they got the wrong guy.
If you know of proof that exists that shows he was framed, or that the wrong person is being held, it is your duty as a human being to come forward with it.
Proof please. We're waiting.

Nothin' but.......
http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/9592/crickets.jpg


Phoenix, it doesn't even have to be "proof positive" he was framed. All we're asking to see is the evidence you used to come to the conclusion that Mr. Steele was framed by the gov.
i.e. show your homework please.

[Phoenix]

All we're asking to see is the evidence you used to come to the conclusion that Mr. Steele was framed by the gov.


I do not answer questions from sockpuppets. When a legitimate and respectable member inquires, I will answer.

[mightymanx]

So after 4 pages the answer to the OP's question is still no.

Call me crazy but, I am stating to spot a trend.

[Joe King]

All we're asking to see is the evidence you used to come to the conclusion that Mr. Steele was framed by the gov.


I do not answer questions from sockpuppets. When a legitimate and respectable member inquires, I will answer.


Prove your allegations please, as I've never posted as anything other than Joe King. <--- I'm a King, baby. See? It says so right there. Render unto me for I am as Ceasar. ;D

Mr. Steele is rotting in jail, and you seem not to care. If you have evidence he was framed, you'd likely garner support for him on this forum.
Most here seem to be in favor of Due process, Equal Justice and Liberty for all.
If you have any evidence at all it's your duty to share it.
Unless of course you were lying about what you said you had reason to believe.

Which is it?

Either post your proof, or quit nagging others on here to prove negatives for you. As it's impossible {by definition} to prove a negative.

You, on the other hand, could easily post why it is you think Mr. Steele was framed.

Or perhaps you're just in the habit of making wild and baseless accusations?

[Phoenix]

I do not answer questions from sockpuppets. When a legitimate and respectable member inquires, I will answer.


Prove your allegations please, as I've never posted as anything other than Joe King.


As MNeagle has pointed out, "Joe King" = Joking. <a href="http://gold-silver.us/forum/general-discussion/in-defense-of-adolf-hitler/msg90002/#msg90002">She spotted you as a sock independent of me</a>.

The available evidence points to you being an alter-ego of Sukhoi Fan / I am Me, I am Free.

[Joe King]

I do not answer questions from sockpuppets. When a legitimate and respectable member inquires, I will answer.
Prove your allegations please, as I've never posted as anything other than Joe King.
As MNeagle has pointed out, "Joe King" = Joking. <a href="http://gold-silver.us/forum/general-discussion/in-defense-of-adolf-hitler/msg90002/#msg90002">She spotted you as a sock independent of me</a>.
The available evidence points to you being an alter-ego of Sukhoi Fan / I am Me, I am Free.
What "evidence"?
Are you saying that it's impossible for a "King" to be named "Joe"?

That that's the extent of your so-called "evidence"? lol

In realty, what's impossible is for you to provide your reason for believing the gov framed Mr. Steele.

[sirgonzo420]

I do not answer questions from sockpuppets. When a legitimate and respectable member inquires, I will answer.


Prove your allegations please, as I've never posted as anything other than Joe King.


As MNeagle has pointed out, "Joe King" = Joking. <a href="http://gold-silver.us/forum/general-discussion/in-defense-of-adolf-hitler/msg90002/#msg90002">She spotted you as a sock independent of me</a>.

The available evidence points to you being an alter-ego of Sukhoi Fan / I am Me, I am Free.


hahahaha

You couldn't crack the "Joe King = joking" mystery all by yourself?

And there is much more evidence that says you're Quantum than there is that Joe King is I am me, I am free.

[Phoenix]

And there is much more evidence that says you're Quantum than there is that Joe King is I am me, I am free.


Lay it out.

You KNOW "Joe King" is I am Me, I am Free, but you're wanting to cover for his ass since he's your fellow "sovereign citizen" ally.

[sirgonzo420]

And there is much more evidence that says you're Quantum than there is that Joe King is I am me, I am free.


Lay it out.

You KNOW "Joe King" is I am Me, I am Free, but you're wanting to cover for his ass since he's your fellow "sovereign citizen" ally.


I don't KNOW who Joe King is... maybe he is I am me, I am free.

I HIGHLY SUSPECT (to the point where I can pretty much safely say "I know") that you are Quantum.

Your posting frequency, content and style of posts, attitude, etc, all match up with Quantum's.

[UFM]

And there is much more evidence that says you're Quantum than there is that Joe King is I am me, I am free.


Lay it out.

You KNOW "Joe King" is I am Me, I am Free, but you're wanting to cover for his ass since he's your fellow "sovereign citizen" ally.


I don't KNOW who Joe King is... maybe he is I am me, I am free.

I HIGHLY SUSPECT (to the point where I can pretty much safely say "I know") that you are Quantum.

Your posting frequency, content and style of posts, attitude, etc, all match up with Quantum's.






mabe he someone pretend to be quantum. maybe quantum was joeking

[Joe King]

And there is much more evidence that says you're Quantum than there is that Joe King is I am me, I am free.


Lay it out.

You KNOW "Joe King" is I am Me, I am Free, but you're wanting to cover for his ass since he's your fellow "sovereign citizen" ally.


I don't KNOW who Joe King is... maybe he is I am me, I am free.

I HIGHLY SUSPECT (to the point where I can pretty much safely say "I know") that you are Quantum.

Your posting frequency, content and style of posts, attitude, etc, all match up with Quantum's.






mabe he someone pretend to be quantum. maybe quantum was joeking
Or just maybe Phoenix is Joe King. http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6861/shiftysmiley.gif

Oh, wait...http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/2800/oops.gif

[Awoke]

...maybe SirGonzo is Phoenix...


:P

[Phoenix]

...maybe SirGonzo is Phoenix...


:P


Well, I do live in the Emerald Triangle. (420 and all)

[cedarchopper]

Since Quantum deleted his account and posting record(but not random posts in threads), you can't just go to his old account and do a parallel comparison of his number of posts per day or the content of his of posts with Phoenix, but it is all identical....to a T!

http://gold-silver.us/forum/firearms/breaking-5-to-4-in-favor-of-incorporation/msg70747/#msg70747

Everybody read this thread I Am Free found with Quantum (it isn't too long) and you will have no doubts whatsoever, period! It's all the same...same as it has always been. He never took a break...after being banned as PDT, he took a new sock and kept right on going, after being temporarily banned as Quantum....and throwing a fit as Quantum and deleting his account because of it, he lobbied to come back as Phoenix(because he felt empowered by a thread with people asking for PDT to come back...I wonder who was behind that? hehehe). So, there it is in a nut shell.

Come clean PDT/Quantum/Phoenix and this issue will be put to rest...continue the lies and denial, it will not die.

[Phoenix]

Since Quantum deleted his account and posting record


That's funny, a general search finds plenty of posts by "Quantum."

Another LIE from you.




He never took a break...after being banned as PDT, he took a new sock and kept right on going


Last post by PDT = April 5th

First post by "Quantum" = sometime in May (appears to be early; can't ascertain without wasting more time on it - NONE in April)

Another LIE from you.




Come clean PDT/Quantum/Phoenix and this issue will be put to rest...continue the lies and denial, it will not die.


You go right ahead, Atahualpa. It will only demonstrate that you are a nut. Your behavior is identical. Your accusations against me are identical. I can just sit back, now, and let you hang your own credibility.

[wildcard]

This is hilarious. I guess they think they will convince someone to stop reading Phoenix's posts. He was begged back to the forum you retards, get over it. :ROFL:

[cedarchopper]

Since Quantum deleted his account and posting record


That's funny, a general search finds plenty of posts by "Quantum."

Another LIE from you.




He never took a break...after being banned as PDT, he took a new sock and kept right on going


Last post by PDT = April 5th

First post by "Quantum" = sometime in May (appears to be early; can't ascertain without wasting more time on it - NONE in April)

Another LIE from you.




Come clean PDT/Quantum/Phoenix and this issue will be put to rest...continue the lies and denial, it will not die.


You go right ahead, Atahualpa. It will only demonstrate that you are a nut. Your behavior is identical. Your accusations against me are identical. I can just sit back, now, and let you hang your own credibility.


I said, because you deleted your old account, one could not go to your old account and do a side by side comparison...that is absolutely true. I didn't say there were no traces of you as Quantum, but the account with all your posts chronologically LISTED as Quantum is gone from the membership list. So, what I said completely stands as true, and your accusation that I LIED about this is further demonstration of your inability to be honest.

Ok, I'll concede that you may have not have posted for a short time after your meltdown as PDT and resumption as Quantum...you say a few weeks, we'll go with that. A few weeks is not what I would call much of a break in the context of your continuous posting since the creation of the forum under 3 different identities.

You are Quantum...I know you are Quantum and anybody with any analytical skills whatsoever knows you are Quantum.

YOU ARE A COMPLETE AND TOTAL LIAR.

[Phoenix]

He never took a break




Ok, I'll concede that you may have not have posted for a short time...you say a few weeks, we'll go with that.


You "concede" because you've been caught in a proven-by-documentary-evidence fucking lie. That's the only reason you "concede."

If I had proof I was not "Quantum," I'd lay that out here, too, and shut you up. But since I don't have that evidence - how can I? - it's my word against yours, and it's pretty clear your "word" is whatever is useful in the particular situation you are in. You were like that at GIM, and you're like that here.

FACE THIS FACT: it doesn't matter if I am "Quantum" or not.

(and considering that fact, I'd be stupid to keep denying it, if I were)




A few weeks is not what I would call much of a break


You said "never took a break." Even if I am / were "Quantum," that's a lie.




YOU ARE A COMPLETE AND TOTAL LIAR.


I know it really burns your ass, Atahualpa, that the people who MATTER here don't CARE if I am or am not "Quantum."

Obviously, despite my "style" of posting provocatively, most people value my opinions, even if only for contrarian entertainment. Yours?

:ROFL:

[Phoenix]

This is hilarious. I guess they think they will convince someone to stop reading Phoenix's posts. He was begged back to the forum you retards, get over it. :ROFL:


This "you are Quantum / everyone is Quantum" idiotry is about the most bizarre theater I've ever witnessed in 17 years on the Internet.

Like I said in my previous post: it doesn't matter if I am "Quantum" or not. And given that, if I were "Quantum," I'd be stupid to keep denying it.

[ximmy]

Man!... it just never ends...

[Phoenix]

Man!... it just never ends...



Did "Quantum" use my "Fred" avatar? >:( If so, that pisses me off.

[1970 silver art]

I might be way off the mark here but in the long run, does it really matter whether or not Phoenix is Quantum?

I seriously doubt that it will make a differnence one way or the other since nothing has changed in this country. Gov't is still passing crap legislation. The dollar is still losing purchasing power and will eventually collapse. The job market is still bad.

We are spending way too much time on if Phoenix is Quantum or not. In the big scheme of things it will not matter one way or the other if/when SHTF.

[UFM]

why eis cedarhumper so obsessed with quantum?

[mightymanx]

After 5 pages the answer to the original posters question is still apparently no.

[Joe King]

After 5 pages the answer to the original posters question is still apparently no.


How many people who are supposedly interested in this subject actually took time to go down to the local appraisal office to ask some meat and potato type questions about this issue?

Like asking to see the law they derive their duly authorized power from, and examing the wording of same to see what it's all based upon.