Was Jesus Jewish?

[DMac]

Very straight forward question. Jesus as Jew was something I always assumed to be true, one of those "everybody knows that" thoughts. As I get older I learn that much of what exists in the public "everybody knows that" branch of knowledge tends to be revised renditions of history or science.

That said, what do you folks say?

For me, I am in the unsure category for now. Like k-os I have been reading my bible lately. I am waiting for my Curse of Canaan book to arrive, so in the meantime I've been revisiting sections of the old testament that refer to the ancient gods. I have an interest in learning the history of evil.

[MNeagle]

I don't know either. Is "Jew" a race (bloodline) or a religion?

[Phoenix]

DEFINE "Jew" and "Jewish."

[joe_momma]

It is very well known that Jesus was a black Muslim who would later work closely with Louis Farrakhan in Harlem.

Black Jesus also helped with the pre-planning of Columbus' expedition. (Columbus was also a black Moor from Ghana, Mozambique, or somesuch).

Also Black Jesus oversaw the construction of the pyramids and sphinx before introducing widespread use hydro-electric power to the pre-christian Ethiopians.

Everything you've learned about Jesus in the public schools was re-written to suit the oppressors of the world.

I learned all of this (and more!) from Mr Farrakhan's newsletter those young men in suits are selling on the street corners!


:D

- (Clearly this is meant to a joke and not a besmirchment of any race, creed, or firmly held conspiracy theory.)

[the riot act]

Didn't we just discuss this Here (http://gold-silver.us/forum/religion-and-philosophy/hard-questions/)?

[StackerKen]

DEFINE "Jew" and "Jewish."


I think that may be what it comes down to.
I think the term "Jew" may have different meaning today

One way to look at it would be to ask "Was Abraham a Jew?" "Was Jacob a Jew?" or "Was David a Jew?"

I think they were.

"Call his name Jesus. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David; and he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end" (Luke 1 31-33)


I think the above verses are saying Jesus is King of the Jews.
Or at least the King of the Line of Jacob

I think Matthew 1 is pretty clear

Matthew 1:1 (New King James Version)
The Genealogy of Jesus Christ
The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham:



Although Jesus didn't have the blood line (DNA) of his stepfather Joseph.
He was still considered Joseph's son and Heir

[Phoenix]

DEFINE "Jew" and "Jewish."


I think that may be what it comes down to.
I think the term "Jew" may have different meaning today

One way to look at it would be to ask "Was Abraham a Jew?" "Was Jacob a Jew?" or "Was David a Jew?"

I think they were.


Abraham, Jacob, David, and Jesus were all the same ethnicity.

Rahm Emanuel, Abe Foxman, and Benjamin Netanyahu are all the same ethnicity.

But those groups are NOT the same ethnicity.

If the former group were "Jews," the latter are not.

If the latter group are "Jews," the former were not.

[sirgonzo420]

DEFINE "Jew" and "Jewish."


I think that may be what it comes down to.
I think the term "Jew" may have different meaning today

One way to look at it would be to ask "Was Abraham a Jew?" "Was Jacob a Jew?" or "Was David a Jew?"

I think they were.


Abraham, Jacob, David, and Jesus were all the same ethnicity.

Rahm Emanuel, Abe Foxman, and Benjamin Netanyahu are all the same ethnicity.

But those groups are NOT the same ethnicity.

If the former group were "Jews," the latter are not.

If the latter group are "Jews," the former were not.


Pretty succinct actually.

[StackerKen]

DEFINE "Jew" and "Jewish."


I think that may be what it comes down to.
I think the term "Jew" may have different meaning today

One way to look at it would be to ask "Was Abraham a Jew?" "Was Jacob a Jew?" or "Was David a Jew?"

I think they were.


Abraham, Jacob, David, and Jesus were all the same ethnicity.

Rahm Emanuel, Abe Foxman, and Benjamin Netanyahu are all the same ethnicity.

But those groups are NOT the same ethnicity.

If the former group were "Jews," the latter are not.

If the latter group are "Jews," the former were not.


the 1st group are members of the house of Israel.

I don't think we can know for sure about the 2nd group.
I think only God knows that.

It is all Not about ethnicity (DNA) anymore. ( i sound like a broken record)

Its about Position
Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

If Abe Foxman is or were to become a True believer in Jesus Christ
He too would Belong to the House of Israel (Grafted in to The Olive tree)



From Romans 11
I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them.

For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.

If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root,

Do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you.
You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in."

20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid.
For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

Of course this is Just my semi educated opinion. You should all check out for your selfs what I say


Have read the book of Ruth?

Ruth was a Moabite princess who married the son of Naomi and Elimelech. After her husband died, she followed her mother-in-law to Israel and converted to Judaism. She then married Boaz, and they are the antecedents of King David.


I think it's understandable being angry at Jews because they killed Jesus and they didn't/don't believe in him.

But I think Jesus forgave them.

Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."(Luke 23:34)

I realize when you guys Bash Jews, you have a different definition in mind.
And that is way I think Ponce has it right...you should probably call "them" Zionists instead.

You will know them by their fruits ;)

And of Course there are some that say they are Jews...but are not.

Revelation 2:9
[I]I know your works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but you are rich) and [b]I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.[b][I]

[Heimdhal]

Was Bhudda a Bhuddist or a Hindu? Is the Dalai Llama a Llama?

;D

[messianicdruid]

If by "jew" you mean He was a Judahite or a Judean; okay. Anything else is misleading.

To call anyone before Judah, a "jew", is like naming your grandfather after your child.

[StackerKen]

If by "jew" you mean He was a Judahite or a Judean; okay. Anything else is misleading.

To call anyone before Judah, a "jew", is like naming your grandfather after your child.


So you agree that Jesus was a "jew"?

But wait....Jesus said..
"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
John 8:58 (New International Version)

Now I am confused again. ;)

[DMac]

David, son of Solomon.... Solomon built temples honoring demons. This is the line of Jesus? The Old Testament is pretty clear IMO regarding who was worshiping demons. I have a hard time reconciling how Jesus is God and is also following the line of magick practitioners. Something is wrong with this story.

Riot Act, I started a new thread to get a poll on the subject going. Not to overshadow Sui Juris' thought provoking thread.

[StackerKen]

David, son of Solomon.... Solomon built temples honoring demons. This is the line of Jesus?


Mac; Where did you learn (Read?) that Solomon built temples honoring demons?

He had taken many foreign wives, whom he allowed to worship other gods. He even built shrines for the sacrifices of his foreign wives.

No doubt that was the wrong thing to do. I'm sure God was not pleased.

Those were false gods but they were not demons...those false gods didn't even exist.

The bible could Glorify all its heroes...But instead it points out their mistakes...Showing us that None us are perfect but God can and does still use us.


After King David died, his son Solomon became king over Israel. God appeared to Solomon in a dream one night and said, "Ask! What would you like for me to give you?"

Now Solomon could have asked for riches, long life, or victory over his enemies, but he did not ask for any of these things. He said, "Give me an understanding heart to rule Your people, that I may know the difference between good and evil. Help me to judge these great people of Yours."

God did give him the wisdom he asked for, and gave him the other things also: riches, long life, and victory over his enemies.

Solomon knew about many, things! He could talk about trees and animals, birds and fish. He knew things that other people didn't know, and people came from all over the world to hear him speak. Once a queen came from Sheba to hear him. She was amazed at what she saw and heard.

One day two women brought a baby to Solomon. Each woman said the baby was her child. Solomon said, "Cut the baby in half and give half of the baby to each woman." (Of course, he didn't really intend to kill the baby. It was just a test.) "NO!" screamed the real mother, "Give her the baby. Do not kill him." Then Solomon knew who the real mother was because of the way she loved the baby. He gave the baby to its real mother.

God allowed Solomon to build a beautiful temple in which people could worship God.

Solomon made a big mistake in marrying women from the countries around him. These wives worshiped idols and Solomon also began to worship the false gods. He was not loyal to God as his father David had been.

[Sparky]

If Jesus wasn't Jewish, why would he have been mocked as "King of the Jews"?

[DMac]

Ken,

It starts with 1 Kings 11:06 as you said, Solomon building temples for his wives. These false gods as you say are actually demons. The various peoples of the time, from Phoenicia to Babylon to Persia worshiped similar gods under differing names.

Ashtoreth (Phoenician/Canaanite) is the demon Ba'al. Chemosh is also likely Ba'al. Milcom is likely the demon Moloch, who is also specifically mentioned as Molech.

The demon Moloch, basically personified as a minotaur (man body with bull head), is the demon that burned sacrifices (in particular children) are meant to appease. It is the demon behind the 6 pointed star mentioned in Acts - the "tabernacle of Moloch." (**EDIT**) I am starting to think the "golden calf" talked of in the story of Moses was an idol to Moloch.

[illumin19]

David, son of Solomon.... Solomon built temples honoring demons. This is the line of Jesus? The Old Testament is pretty clear IMO regarding who was worshiping demons. I have a hard time reconciling how Jesus is God and is also following the line of magick practitioners. Something is wrong with this story.

Dawud was father of Suleiman (Peace unto them both)

I'm aware of what it says in the bible but as a Muslim.......we look to Qur'an first, and that defends the honor of Allah's chosen prophets/messengers.

I can pull the verse if you'd like but it states that was a LIE. The devils (followers of shaitan) have always tried to attribute sorcery, adultery/fornication etc to the prophets/messengers.


YOu want proof you say?.........
SURE, YOU CAN READ PRESENT DAY LIES IN THE TALMUD WHERE IT STATES THE SAME ABOUT JESUS (PEACE UNTO HIM) AND HIS BLESSED MOTHER.

[DMac]

My mix up on Solomon, son of David illumin, thank you for clarifying my typo as did Ken above.

[DMac]

David, son of Solomon.... Solomon built temples honoring demons. This is the line of Jesus? The Old Testament is pretty clear IMO regarding who was worshiping demons. I have a hard time reconciling how Jesus is God and is also following the line of magick practitioners. Something is wrong with this story.

Dawud was father of Suleiman (Peace unto them both)

I'm aware of what it says in the bible but as a Muslim.......we look to Qur'an first, and that defends the honor of Allah's chosen prophets/messengers.

I can pull the verse if you'd like but it states that was a LIE. The devils (followers of shaitan) have always tried to attribute sorcery, adultery/fornication etc to the prophets/messengers.


YOu want proof you say?.........
SURE, YOU CAN READ PRESENT DAY LIES IN THE TALMUD WHERE IT STATES THE SAME ABOUT JESUS (PEACE UNTO HIM) AND HIS BLESSED MOTHER.



From what I have read of the Quran, Solomon was mentioned as being in league with the Djinn (demons).

[illumin19]

No, he had CONTROL of them....by Allah's leave of course.

The devils used to chant wicked things about Suleiman (peace unto him) like the other prophets/messengers. The devils were the ones to teach witchcraft/magic that was learned in Babylon.

Suleiman was blessed with the most wealth/kingdom of any Israelite King by Allah (subhanu wa ta'ala) but they wish to attribute the witchcraft to Suleiman (peace be unto him) to tarnish his character.............. Allah knows best.

[iOWNme]

Was Jesus the son of God?

Is God Jewish?

[sirgonzo420]

Was Jesus the son of God?

Is God Jewish?


According to jewish law, "jewishness" is determined by the maternal line, so perhaps a more appropriate question would be:

"Was the Virgin (ahem) Mary jewish?"

[StackerKen]

Was Jesus the son of God?

Is God Jewish?


According to jewish law, "jewishness" is determined by the maternal line, so perhaps a more appropriate question would be:

"Was the Virgin (ahem) Mary jewish?"


Mary was Jewish

The Catholic Encyclopedia indicates that she was Jewish
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm

Wikipedia(i know) says she was Jewish

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_(mother_of_Jesus)

This is also interesting about Mary and their Jewishness

http://campus.udayton.edu/mary/imaryjewish.html

[Spectrism]

If by "jew" you mean He was a Judahite or a Judean; okay. Anything else is misleading.

To call anyone before Judah, a "jew", is like naming your grandfather after your child.


So you agree that Jesus was a "jew"?

But wait....Jesus said..
"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
John 8:58 (New International Version)

Now I am confused again. ;)




You bring up a good point- that is the dual nature here of the Messiah: Man & Creator

The WORD became flesh. He chose to become flesh in the line of Judah in a time that only the tribes of Benjamin & Judah had a remnant still intact. This remnant was called Judah- the alrger of the tribes.


Yahshuah was also the One who took tribute from Abraham as Melchizedek. So we have the unusual circumstance of the (grand)father Abraham honoring the One who would be the (grand)son.... totally scandalous in Jewish tradition where the elders must honored.



btw- the man who was the Word-made-flesh, was born into a Jewish line so, yes- he was Jewish fulfilling the promises made to the faithful of Adam (and Eve) and his children.

[Saul Mine]

As usual, the problem is people asking each other's opinions instead of reading the truth in God's word. We know from Genesis that the serpent always starts by sowing doubt about the word of God and then provokes people to substitute their own opinions instead of God's word.

Well, since you know that, why do you keep letting him get away with it? Go read your bible and see for yourself what it says and stop asking other people to tell you what it says.

[Phoenix]

Was Jesus the son of God?

Is God Jewish?


According to jewish law, "jewishness" is determined by the maternal line, so perhaps a more appropriate question would be:

"Was the Virgin (ahem) Mary jewish?"


Uh, the "Jewish" law you refer to is TALMUDIC law, not Biblical.

[Phoenix]

I'm going to repost this, since apparently some people didn't read it, or it didn't sink in:


Abraham, Jacob, David, and Jesus were all the same ethnicity.

Rahm Emanuel, Abe Foxman, and Benjamin Netanyahu are all the same ethnicity.

But those groups are NOT the same ethnicity.

If the former group were "Jews," the latter are not.

If the latter group are "Jews," the former were not.

[iOWNme]

As usual, the problem is people asking each other's opinions instead of reading the truth in God's word. We know from Genesis that the serpent always starts by sowing doubt about the word of God and then provokes people to substitute their own opinions instead of God's word.

Well, since you know that, why do you keep letting him get away with it? Go read your bible and see for yourself what it says and stop asking other people to tell you what it says.


Saul thats the problem!

Man reading a book (Which is NOT ALL the word of Jesus Christ) then interpret it as will fit their bias' and preconceived notions.

This is why preachers do so well in modern day. People think they arent smart enough to think for themselves, and if the local 'Preacher' said it, then he must know what he is talking about.....

[StackerKen]

I read this post the 1st time and replied to it.
But here is a different reply this time. I like my 1st reply better though.



I'm going to repost this, since apparently some people didn't read it, or it didn't sink in:


Abraham, Jacob, David, and Jesus were all the same ethnicity.

Rahm Emanuel, Abe Foxman, and Benjamin Netanyahu are all the same ethnicity.

But those groups are NOT the same ethnicity.

If the former group were "Jews," the latter are not.

If the latter group are "Jews," the former were not.


Im not saying your wrong...(cause I don't know)

But

Do you have any way of knowing this?

Can you be sure?

Can you show proof?

[Phoenix]

Do you have any way of knowing this?

Can you be sure?

Can you show proof?


The burden of proof is on those who claim they are Jews today, to prove that they descend from the Israelites of the Bible. I contend they do not.

[steyr_m]

Do you have any way of knowing this?

Can you be sure?

Can you show proof?


The burden of proof is on those who claim they are Jews today, to prove that they descend from the Israelites of the Bible. I contend they do not.


I say just read Arthur Koestler's The Thirteenth Tribe.

[Jazkal]

"Was Jesus Jewish?"

First you have to define "Jewish". Without that definition, you can come up with all kinds of answers.

So let me layout two biblical definition of "Jewish":

Jew, Jewess, Jewish
(From International Standard Bible Encyclopedia)

ju, joo, ju'-ish, joo'-ish (yehudhi plural yehudhim; Ioudaioi; feminine adjective yehudhith; Ioudaikos):
1) "Jew" denotes originally an inhabitant of Judah (II Kings 16:6 applies to the two tribes of the Southern Kingdom),
2) but later the meaning was extended to embrace all descendants of Abraham.
3) In the Old Testament the word occurs a few times in the singular. (Esther 2:5; Esther 3:4, etc.; Jeremiah 34:9; Zechariah 8:23);
4) very frequently in the plural in Ezra and Nehemiah, Esther, and in Jeremiah and Daniel. The adjective in the Old Testament applies only to the "Jews' language" or speech (II Kings 18:26, II Kings 18:28 parallel Nehemiah 13:24; Isaiah 36:11, Isaiah 36:13). "Jews" (always plural) is the familiar term for Israelites in the Gospels (especially in John), Acts, Epistles, etc. "Jewess" occurs in I Chronicles 4:18; Acts 16:1; Acts 24:24. In Titus 1:14 a warning is given against "Jewish fables" (in Greek the adjective is found also in Galatians 2:14). The "Jews' religion" (Ioudaismos) is referred to in Galatians 1:13-14. On the "Jews' language,' see LANGUAGES OF THE OLD TESTAMENT; on the "Jews' religion," see ISRAEL, RELIGION OF.


Jew
(From Easton's Bible Dictionary)

the name derived from the patriarch Judah, at first given to one belonging to the tribe of Judah or to the separate kingdom of Judah (2 Kings 16:6; 25:25; Jeremiah 32:12; 38:19; 40:11; 41:3), in contradistinction from those belonging to the kingdom of the ten tribes, who were called Israelites.



From what we are told in the NT, Jesus was of the House of David, Who was of the House of Judah. So by this logic, the answer would have to be answered with a "Yes".

If you believe that Jesus is the Messiah prophesied by the OT. Then you must look at the prophecies concerning this question:

Num 24:17,19
Ps 78:67,68
Gen 49:10 - Luke 3:33
Heb 7:14
Rev 5:5
Isa 11:1,2
Luke 3:23,32

So if you believe Jesus fulfilled the prophecies of the OT concerning the Messiah, and you define "Jewish" in a biblical way as being of the House of Judah, then I must answer Yes to the original question.





Do you have any way of knowing this?
Can you be sure?
Can you show proof?

I would suggest you read a book that lays out the evidence using available textual proofs. The book is:
"Who is Esau-Edom?" by Charles A. Weisman

[Phoenix]

Do you have any way of knowing this?

Can you be sure?

Can you show proof?


The burden of proof is on those who claim they are Jews today, to prove that they descend from the Israelites of the Bible. I contend they do not.


I say just read Arthur Koestler's The Thirteenth Tribe.


Even better:

http://inventionofthejewishpeople.com/

[steyr_m]

http://inventionofthejewishpeople.com/


Yeah, I looked through that too. It's kind of like comparing The Secrets of Federal Reserve and The Creature from Jekyll Island . They are both good [but Mullins did most of the heavy lifting].

[illumin19]

The term "jewish" seems to get people confused.......

Let's use the term "judah-ish" 8)

[Fortyone]

DEFINE "Jew" and "Jewish."


I think that may be what it comes down to.
I think the term "Jew" may have different meaning today

One way to look at it would be to ask "Was Abraham a Jew?" "Was Jacob a Jew?" or "Was David a Jew?"

I think they were.


Abraham, Jacob, David, and Jesus were all the same ethnicity.

Rahm Emanuel, Abe Foxman, and Benjamin Netanyahu are all the same ethnicity.

But those groups are NOT the same ethnicity.

If the former group were "Jews," the latter are not.

If the latter group are "Jews," the former were not.




While I agree with your stand on Emanuel and Co.I dont agree on the second. First ,Abraham and Jacob were Hebrews. That group of people would have been entirely different from the the next two,but they would have been their parent race. Israelites came from Hebrews who left Egypt with Moses and conquered Canaan (history from the Bible), and founded the Kingdom of Israel. Jews,and Jesus come from what was left of the Kingdom, Judea. Judeans had intermarried with other locals and outside invaders for a LONG time before Jesus was born.Judeans also did not follow the same faith as the Israelites or Hebrews did.The Talmud is a Judean creation, where as God himself directed Hebrews and Israelites personally(again using Bible history)I would say "Jews" of Jesus's time were no more related culturally,ethnically or religiously to Hebrews than Modern day English are to Saxons. At that, I would say Jesus was born into a Judean culture under Roman occupation,and did in fact try to show his contemporary Judeans the path back to proper worship,but himself not actually a Jew ,as He did not follow the Talmudic rabbi's teaching of the worship of God.

[Phoenix]

The Talmud is a Judean creation


Actually, the Talmud is a Satanic Babylonian creation.



He did not follow the Talmudic rabbi's teaching of the worship of God.


Following the Talmud and being a Judean are mutually exclusively. Indeed, He didn't follow the "traditions of the elders," which He described as satanic.

[Fortyone]

The Talmud is a Judean creation


Actually, the Talmud is a Satanic Babylonian creation.



He did not follow the Talmudic rabbi's teaching of the worship of God.


Following the Talmud and being a Judean are mutually exclusively. Indeed, He didn't follow the "traditions of the elders," which He described as satanic.



Created in Babylon,but used by the Judeans. correct.