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View Full Version : Jobless millions signal death of the American dream for many



MNeagle
14th August 2010, 06:54 PM
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Admin/BkFill/Default_image_group/2010/8/14/1281803549202/jobless-march-006.jpg
Union members hold up "I want to work" placards as they join a protest of several thousand people demanding jobs outside City Hall in Los Angeles on August 13, 2010. Photograph: Mark Ralston/AFP/Getty Images

Richard Gaines is one of the best-known faces on Camden's Haddon Avenue. It is a rough-and-tumble street, lined with cheap businesses and boarded-up houses, and is prey to drug gangs. Gaines, 50, runs a barbershop, a hair salon and a fitness business. He works hard and is committed to his community. But Haddon Avenue is not an easy place to make a living in the best of times. And these are far from the best of times.

Just how badly the great recession has struck this fragile New Jersey city, which is currently the poorest in America, was recently spelled out to Gaines. In happier times – whatever that might mean for a city as destitute as Camden – local businesses on Haddon Avenue could at least rely on a bit of trade from those who made their money on the street.

Young men bought flashy clothes and got sharp haircuts and always paid in cash. But no longer. The economy is now so bad in Camden that even the criminals are struggling and going short. "Even the guys who got money from illegal means really don't want to spend it," Gaines said.

Such a development, though, is just a snapshot of the deep problems still hitting the wider American economy. Growth rates are stuttering and a recovery is struggling to take hold. It may even now be showing signs of going backwards again, as countries such as Germany start to power forward. Joblessness has taken hold in America, with the numbers of long-term unemployed reaching levels not seen since the Depression of the 1930s. The figures are frightening and illustrate a society that remains in deep trouble.

The headline jobless figure of 9.5% is bad enough but does not begin to convey the problem as it fails to measure those who have stopped looking for work. Over the past three months alone more than a million Americans have fallen into that category: effectively giving up hope of finding a job and dropping out of the official statistics. Such cases now number some 5.9 million and their ranks are likely to grow as millions more find their jobless status becoming a permanent state of hopelessness. Surveys show that with each passing week on the dole their chances of finding a job get slimmer.

Though corporations, especially in the banking sector, are posting healthy profits, they are not hiring new workers. At the same time, government cuts are sweeping through city and state governments alike, threatening tens of thousands of jobs and slicing away at services once thought vital. Schools, street lighting, libraries, refuse collection, the police, fire services and public transport networks are all being scaled back.

America appears to be a society splitting down the centre, shattering the middle class that long formed the cultural bedrock of the country and dividing it into a country of haves and have-nots. "A once unthinkable level of economic distress is in the process of becoming the new normal," warned Nobel-prize winning economist Paul Krugman in a recent New York Times column. Or, as Steven Green, an economics lecturer at Baylor University, put it to the Observer: "We are really in a tough spot right now."

There is a new name for those falling down the black hole of joblessness that has opened up in America's economy. They are the 99ers.

It is a moniker that no one wants. It refers to the 99 weeks of benefits that the jobless can qualify for in America. Government cash helps those laid off keep a tenuous grip on a normal life. It keeps a roof over their heads, pays a phone bill, puts food on a table and petrol in a car. But once the 99 weeks are up the payments stop – as is happening now for millions of people – and they are 99ers.

For many, that moment, which America's politicians have refused to extend, represents the moment of destitution; a sort of modern American version of the old Victorian trip to the workhouse. There are now more than a million 99ers and the number gets bigger each week.

But who are they? Despite Republican attempts to paint them as feckless or job-shy, they are usually anything but. The 99ers are people like Anne Strauss, 58, who spent 35 years working as a PR professional on Long Island. Despite spending every day hunting for work, she has not had a job since June 2008. She and her husband are now living on credit cards watching debts mount as they stare into the abyss. "Looking for a job is the hardest I have ever worked," she said with a smile that conveyed no humour or happiness, only the deep stress that is common to many 99ers.

Strauss, along with about 50 other 99ers, protested on Wall Street last week, demanding an extension of the benefits that could keep them out of poverty. As bankers and financiers strode into the flag-draped Stock Exchange they chanted: "Shame! Shame!" and told their stories. It was a litany of middle-class lives shattered by the recession. There was Connie Kaplan, a corporate librarian who was desperate to resume her career. "We are not bums, we are hardworking," she said. Or Lori Ghavami, a New Jersey financial analyst in her 30s, who had once worked on Wall Street itself and now was staring at landlords' bills she was scared she could not pay. Or New Yorker Steven Bilarbi, 62, who had worked for the same employer for 37 years, until 2007. He has not worked since, despite refusing to spend daytime hours at home and engaging in a permanent job hunt. He is now living off savings and depleting his pension.

"I go to job fairs. I don't feel like staying home. What would I do? Watch game shows and soap operas?" he fumed.

Meeting 99ers is to tap into a deep well of anger at lives that have been knocked off course, shattering the enduring vision of the American dream that many had felt they had achieved. Just take Donna Faiella, a 53-year-old New Yorker who lives alone in Queens. She spent 28 years working in film post-production and video-editing. She was successful and had a career. Now she is desperate for a job, any job. But she cannot find one. "I will do anything. I will sweep floors. You think I look forward to collecting unemployment? It is fucking degrading," she said, almost quivering with anger.

Faiella is in dire trouble. Joblessness has eaten away at her sense of identity. "I feel like we are worthless. We are lost in the world. I don't know what to call myself. I don't have a title any more. What do we do? What do we do?" she implored. Faiella has one week of benefits to go. Then her 99 weeks will be up. She will have a title again. But not one she expected. She will be a 99er. "I am petrified. Do I become homeless?" she said, adding that she has begun making inquiries at local shelters.

If the 99ers are coming to symbolise a human segment of society that America is slowly abandoning to its fate, then Camden is the geographic expression of that marginalisation. Large stretches of the once bustling river port city seem to epitomise urban blight. Vacant lots and burned-out abandoned houses line many of its streets.

Its 79,000 residents have the lowest median household annual income of any city in the US at just $24,000 (£15,000). In terms of crime rates it was the nation's second-most dangerous city last year. Some estimates reckon that about a third of Camden's houses are empty. A third of its people are in poverty and a fifth are unemployed.

It is a deeply grim picture and it is getting worse. Camden's city government is facing the prospect of massive cuts as its cash-strapped resources have run out and it has built up huge debts. Services have already been cut and only a last-minute rescue last week saved Camden's three public libraries from being closed.

In a city that has had it tough for decades these are hammer blows to its residents. One woman who has watched in dismay as the recession unfolded outside her door is Dorothy Allen, 81, who has lived near Haddon Avenue for almost four decades. Known by almost everyone as "Mom", she calls herself "the mother of the block". She has never known anything like the area's current troubles. "I have been here since 1971 and it's the worst it's ever been," she said. Yet to listen to America's politicians many would think recovery is just a matter of time. Yes, they say, the recession has been hard, but America will pull through and everything will be as it once was. Last week New Jersey senator Robert Menendez visited Camden, stopping at a local health clinic. He spoke of the achievements of the Democrats in staving off economic disaster.

Job creation was coming, he told his audience of health executives: "It is not going fast enough to get people back to work but it's a dramatic turnaround." It does not feel that way for millions of Americans all across the country. Camden is far from unique in slashing its services. In Colorado Springs more than a third of street lights have been switched off to cut the municipal electricity bill. The city has also sold off its police helicopters.

In Hawaii schoolchildren were told to stay at home for 17 Fridays to save costs. In a suburb of Atlanta local bus routes were closed, at a stroke wiping out public transport for thousands of people who relied on it to get to precious jobs.

Whether it's the poor of Camden or Colorado Springs or Atlanta, or among the growing throngs of the 99ers, millions of Americans are discovering that working hard, doing the right thing and obeying the rules are no longer enough.

Back at the 99er rally on Wall Street, Anne Strauss felt that way. During her working life she had refused to claim benefits to which she was entitled as she thought she was doing just fine. Now, as a newly minted 99er, she was looking for help from the country that she had always believed in. But the help was not forthcoming. It is hard to see how the version of the American dream that Menendez described could now ever apply to her. For Strauss, living on credit, desperate to work, but with no job in sight, that dream looks a thing of the past, not the future. "This is not the country I grew up in," Strauss said.

Case study: 'This is my last $260 and barring a miracle I'll be sleeping in my car'

Alexandra Jarrin, 49, worked for a small technology company near New York City, earned $56,000 a year, had petrol in her car and a roof over her head. She was enrolled in a graduate business school. Then, two years ago, she lost her job .

She received her last unemployment payment in March, putting her among the first wave of "99ers" who have come to the end of their 99 weeks of entitlement to benefits. When interviewed by the New York Times, she was living in a motel in Brattleboro, Vermont, having paid $260 she managed to scrape together from friends and from selling her living-room furniture – enough for a week-long stay.

She said she wept as she left her old life. 'I thought, you know, what if I turned the wheel in my car and wrecked my car?' Her vehicle is now on the verge of being repossessed. Jarrin has contacted her local shelter, but was told there was a waiting list. "Barring a miracle, I'm going to be [sleeping] in my car," she said.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/aug/15/jobless-millions-death-american-dream

old steel
14th August 2010, 07:15 PM
.. and yet the market is still up the dollar is still up the government still has money to fight wars on the other side of the world and on and on it goes.

What in the name of hells half acre is keeping everything together?

Ponce
14th August 2010, 08:00 PM
UNION MEMBERS? to hell with them, let them eat cake........they are the reason why so many companies went overseas..........why pay $65.00 per hour when overseas the same job can be done for $1.50 per hour.......Hardly-Davidson is a very good example, they lasted longer than most here in the states, but no more..........good by unions, Mexico here we come.

You should be paid according to what you are worth and what you produce and not what you want...when I founded my company the idea was to make money FOR ME.

MNeagle
14th August 2010, 08:20 PM
.. and yet the market is still up the dollar is still up the government still has money to fight wars on the other side of the world and on and on it goes.

What in the name of hells half acre is keeping everything together?


MSM blackout in the USA on the dires of our economy. Too often, it's foreign media reporting the truth.

So, every sucker thinks they're alone, and are too embarassed to discuss it.

Stop Making Cents
14th August 2010, 08:51 PM
The silver lining I see in all this is that maybe if there isn't enough work some of the illegals will head back to their 3rd world hellholes.

The sad thing is that the area with a growing job market - government work - is going to give the jobs out on a preferential basis to non-whites.

MoMoney
14th August 2010, 09:13 PM
UNION MEMBERS? to hell with them, let them eat cake........they are the reason why so many companies went overseas..........why pay $65.00 per hour when overseas the same job can be done for $1.50 per hour.......Hardly-Davidson is a very good example, they lasted longer than most here in the states, but no more..........good by unions, Mexico here we come.

You should be paid according to what you are worth and what you produce and not what you want...when I founded my company the idea was to make money FOR ME.


I am not in a Union, never was but it's the overpaid CEO's, CFO's, COO's and the Board that has been making 500x the salary of the average workers....but nobody's really talking about them enough! :-\

Phoenix
14th August 2010, 09:43 PM
they are the reason why so many companies went overseas....when I founded my company the idea was to make money FOR ME.


Actually, YOU are one of the reasons.

Phoenix
14th August 2010, 09:44 PM
The redistribution of wealth from those that worked for it to those that didn't.


Yup...


The American working people -->-->-->-->--> International Jewish Banksters

Joe King
14th August 2010, 09:59 PM
UNION MEMBERS? to hell with them, let them eat cake........they are the reason why so many companies went overseas..........why pay $65.00 per hour when overseas the same job can be done for $1.50 per hour.......Hardly-Davidson is a very good example, they lasted longer than most here in the states, but no more..........good by unions, Mexico here we come.

You should be paid according to what you are worth and what you produce and not what you want...when I founded my company the idea was to make money FOR ME.
I don't see anything wrong with paying the people who actually do the work, a good wage. The way I see it, by the act of agreeing to $65 an hour in the first place the companies were openly acknowledging that they could well afford to pay that wage.
Where they made their mistake was in agreeing to paying those workers large sums of money in the future after they were no longer productive.
They should have paid $75 an hour and told them to take care of their own retirement.

The problem of jobs being sent overseas is, for the most part, but a symptom of monetary inflation.
i.e. no matter what you build, at some point you will no longer be able to afford to make it here anymore as the price of both labor and materials will exceed the price you can reasonably sell that product for.
So in an attempt to maintain profitability they cut the easiest thing to cut. People.

This is the main reason why I think Nixon went to China. He knew {or was told} that in a pure keynesian economy that we'd need cheap labor in the future and that was a foot in the door.
Because without cheap foreign labor just imagine how expensive everything would be.
i.e. without it, our economy would have tanked years ago.

tater
14th August 2010, 10:12 PM
Where America is headed, there ain't no coming back from. This is not gonna end well...

Liquid
14th August 2010, 10:17 PM
Because without cheap foreign labor just imagine how expensive everything would be.
i.e. without it, our economy would have tanked years ago.


So, foreign cheap labour is keeping us afloat. Pull that away, and we sink?

Prices would go up, if we had more domestic products. But hey, maybe that's a good thing. As a culture, we've grown fat and happy consuming everything we can get our paws on...from electronics, to fancy cars, to the latest dvd's.

We are fat, bloated, and lethargic. The best thing for us, healthwise, is to slim down. I say bring on the pain and let us regain some strength.

Joe King
14th August 2010, 10:31 PM
Because without cheap foreign labor just imagine how expensive everything would be.
i.e. without it, our economy would have tanked years ago.


So, foreign cheap labour is keeping us afloat. Pull that away, and we sink?

Prices would go up, if we had more domestic products. But hey, maybe that's a good thing. As a culture, we've grown fat and happy consuming everything we can get our paws on...from electronics, to fancy cars, to the latest dvd's.

We are fat, bloated, and lethargic. The best thing for us, healthwise, is to slim down. I say bring on the pain and let us regain some strength.


Of course the bolded part is the real answer. {same as with a junkie} {btw, welcome to junkie-World. We've been expecting you!} :D


Think of the act of using cheap foreign labor as a kind of "foot" to help kick the can down the road for awhile.
At the point your economy depends upon that cheap foreign labor, yes, if you pull it away all the companies relying on it for their profitability will see their profits go away. Or they'll produce goods for a little while that hardly no one can afford.

Either way, same difference.
i.e. when profits go away, companies go away.

Joe King
14th August 2010, 10:34 PM
Where America is headed, there ain't no coming back from. This is not gonna end well...
Maybe not.

Germany was able to recover after their economy crashing round of hyperinflation in the early '20s.

Oh wait, nevermind.

Liquid
14th August 2010, 10:39 PM
.
Think of the act of using cheap foreign labor as a kind of "foot" to help kick the can down the road for awhile.
At the point your economy depends upon that cheap foreign labor, yes, if you pull it away all the companies relying on it for their profitability will see their profits go away. Or they'll produce goods for a little while that hardly no one can afford.

Either way, same difference.
i.e. when profits go away, companies go away.



I like that analogy Joe. I take it, when you say "your" economy depends upon cheap labour, you are saying you are not from the U.S. Perhaps Canadian or European, I would imagine.

Either way, I agree with your conclusions.

Ponce
14th August 2010, 10:42 PM
Well, I am proud of my workers because they mad 30% of what I made.......I was paying by the piece and they took home between $650 and $750 A WEEK.......as a matter of fact 3 of them bought houses, I am still in contact with many of them after 12 years.

If you dick heads want to make this about Ponce let's go at it..........specially you Phoenix, I can't believe that you even have a family because you sound to me more like a kid.... bring it on.

Liquid
14th August 2010, 10:47 PM
If you dick heads want to make this about Ponce let's go at it

Jeez Ponce, espirit de corps, where did this come from?

Ponce
14th August 2010, 10:53 PM
Some people here always like to say things against me in a very ELEGANT way and think that they can get away with it..........to me there is only black or white......talk straight or shut the hell up.

Liquid
14th August 2010, 10:58 PM
Some people here always like to say things against me in a very ELEGANT way and think that they can get away with it..........to me there is only black or white......talk straight or shut the hell up.


Yeah, much respect Ponce. I'm not smart enough to catch all that, but agree that battles should be fought honestly. Too much sneakin' around is not good.

Joe King
14th August 2010, 11:25 PM
Well, I am proud of my workers because they mad 30% of what I made.......I was paying by the piece and they took home between $650 and $750 A WEEK.......as a matter of fact 3 of them bought houses, I am still in contact with many of them after 12 years.

If you dick heads want to make this about Ponce let's go at it..........specially you Phoenix, I can't believe that you even have a family because you sound to me more like a kid.... bring it on.
No one's making it about you.
If you paid 30% of what they produced, you done good.

Phoenix's comment was off the mark, as all for-profit businesses are started primarily for the ones who own it to make money.
Everything else is secondary.

EE_
14th August 2010, 11:29 PM
Things can't be too bad...there are no reports of people living in homeless camps, on the streets, in their cars, or in shelters.

Joe King
14th August 2010, 11:37 PM
.
Think of the act of using cheap foreign labor as a kind of "foot" to help kick the can down the road for awhile.
At the point your economy depends upon that cheap foreign labor, yes, if you pull it away all the companies relying on it for their profitability will see their profits go away. Or they'll produce goods for a little while that hardly no one can afford.

Either way, same difference.
i.e. when profits go away, companies go away.



I like that analogy Joe. I take it, when you say "your" economy depends upon cheap labour, you are saying you are not from the U.S. Perhaps Canadian or European, I would imagine.

Either way, I agree with your conclusions.


Thanks.

BTW, that was a third person "your". Although I am here in the same boat you are, I prefer to not consider it "my" economy as I find the way it works to be repugnant.
....and I've been trying to tell people that for at least 20 years, but no one ever would listen. But that's starting to change. Better late than never I suppose.

Joe King
14th August 2010, 11:40 PM
Things can't be too bad...there are no reports of people living in homeless camps, on the streets, in their cars, or in shelters.

Just give it time. There's still a lot of liquidity out there.

Remember it took 4 whole years to reach the depth of the depression.
And as Hypertiger pointed out, the way things have so far been going it'll take twice that long this time around.
That is of course if they keep "stimulating" the economy so it keeps hobbling along.

Phoenix
14th August 2010, 11:43 PM
Where America is headed, there ain't no coming back from. This is not gonna end well...
Maybe not.

Germany was able to recover after their economy crashing round of hyperinflation in the early '20s.

Oh wait, nevermind.


Yeah, I wonder who did that?

http://www.adolfthegreat.com/site/fileadmin/Image_Archive/Personalities/Hitler-A/Solo/hitlerblueeyesji6.jpg

Phoenix
14th August 2010, 11:49 PM
Well, I am proud of my workers because they mad 30% of what I made.......I was paying by the piece and they took home between $650 and $750 A WEEK.......as a matter of fact 3 of them bought houses, I am still in contact with many of them after 12 years.

If you dick heads want to make this about Ponce let's go at it..........specially you Phoenix, I can't believe that you even have a family because you sound to me more like a kid.... bring it on.


Ponce...the Legend...and then the reality.

This entire fu*king mess that we have is due to profit being first and foremost in mind. No one does work because work is virtuous, that creation of value is just and Godly, that serving others is a worthy goal...only because one gets Federal Reserve Notes (or more often, digits) for it.

Unions...bringing "evil" things like weekends, breaks, sick leave, vacations to the American worker. Without the unions - regardless of their past or present faults - the American workplace would look just like China's...oh, wait, most crapitalists want it that way, and are aiming to make it so.

Phoenix
14th August 2010, 11:50 PM
Some people here always like to say things against me in a very ELEGANT way and think that they can get away with it..........to me there is only black or white......talk straight or shut the hell up.


You want me to call you a profiteer?

Joe King
14th August 2010, 11:52 PM
Some people here always like to say things against me in a very ELEGANT way and think that they can get away with it..........to me there is only black or white......talk straight or shut the hell up.


You want me to call you a profiteer?


If he paid what he says he did, he was no "profiteer"

Joe King
14th August 2010, 11:54 PM
Where America is headed, there ain't no coming back from. This is not gonna end well...
Maybe not.

Germany was able to recover after their economy crashing round of hyperinflation in the early '20s.

Oh wait, nevermind.


Yeah, I wonder who did that?

http://www.adolfthegreat.com/site/fileadmin/Image_Archive/Personalities/Hitler-A/Solo/hitlerblueeyesji6.jpg

Hitlers problem came as a result of him trying to steal from his neighbors.

Phoenix
14th August 2010, 11:54 PM
Phoenix's comment was off the mark, as all for-profit businesses are started primarily for the ones who own it to make money.


My comment was FACT. This economic mess exists because people operate business solely on a personal profit motive. Ponce elicited a response by attacking the worker's instruments that have, in a losing battle, kept the American workplace from looking like China's for as long as it has.


In the face of this fact, is there not some justification for the opinion that the United States owe their very existence to the Jews? And if this be so, how much more can it be asserted that Jewish influence made the United States just what they are—that is, American? For what we call Americanism is nothing else, if we may say so, than the Jewish spirit distilled.

Werner Sombart, German Economist, The Jews and Modern Capitalism

Phoenix
14th August 2010, 11:57 PM
If he paid what he says he did, he was no "profiteer"


Ponce says a lot of things.

Joe King
14th August 2010, 11:59 PM
Phoenix's comment was off the mark, as all for-profit businesses are started primarily for the ones who own it to make money.


My comment was FACT. This economic mess exists because people operate business solely on a personal profit motive. Ponce elicited a response by attacking the worker's instruments that have, in a losing battle, kept the American workplace from looking like China's for as long as it has.


In the face of this fact, is there not some justification for the opinion that the United States owe their very existence to the Jews? And if this be so, how much more can it be asserted that Jewish influence made the United States just what they are—that is, American? For what we call Americanism is nothing else, if we may say so, than the Jewish spirit distilled.

Werner Sombart, German Economist, The Jews and Modern Capitalism

How many money losing businesses do you run?
If you don't, why not?

Could it be that you don't want to lose money?

Phoenix
15th August 2010, 12:00 AM
Hitlers problem came as a result of him trying to steal from his neighbors.


Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner! You just won "Retarded Post of the Day"!

The Sudetenland, inhabited by Germans, involuntarily assigned to the artificial country of "Czechoslovakia" against the residents' wishes by the Allies.

The Polish Corridor...forcibly taken from Germany by the Allies.

Austria...forcibly prevented from uniting with Germany by the Allies.

So, what is it he "stole" from his neighbors?

Hitler's problems occurred for one reason, and one reason alone: he told the Internationalist Jewish Banksters to fu*k off.

Phoenix
15th August 2010, 12:00 AM
How many money losing businesses do you run?
If you don't, why not?

Could it be that you don't want to lose money?


Where did I say a business should lose money?

Joe King
15th August 2010, 12:01 AM
If he paid what he says he did, he was no "profiteer"


Ponce says a lot of things.


If you can't prove that what he's saying is false, I'm willing to take it at face value as I can neither prove yea or nay on his claim.

Joe King
15th August 2010, 12:05 AM
How many money losing businesses do you run?
If you don't, why not?

Could it be that you don't want to lose money?


Where did I say a business should lose money?

Well, weren't you beating on Ponce for only paying 30% by implying he was a "profiteer"?

Joe King
15th August 2010, 12:19 AM
Hitlers problem came as a result of him trying to steal from his neighbors.


Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner! You just won "Retarded Post of the Day"!

The Sudetenland, inhabited by Germans, involuntarily assigned to the artificial country of "Czechoslovakia" against the residents' wishes by the Allies.

The Polish Corridor...forcibly taken from Germany by the Allies.

Austria...forcibly prevented from uniting with Germany by the Allies.

So, what is it he "stole" from his neighbors?

Hitler's problems occurred for one reason, and one reason alone: he told the Internationalist Jewish Banksters to fu*k off.


In Hitlers own words about invading Russia.


If they were not prepared to give us of their own
free will the things we had to have, then we had no
alternative but to go and take them, in situ and by force.

Oh, so if your neighbor doesn't give of their own free will, it's ok for you to go take it from them anyways?

Not!
That's called stealing from your neighbors.

If nothing else, he was a theif.

ShortJohnSilver
15th August 2010, 05:04 AM
PR professional, financial analyst, video editing ... hard to have as much sympathy as these are all soft jobs, actually all three involve some form of manipulation?

Ponce
15th August 2010, 09:38 AM
If he paid what he says he did, he was no "profiteer"


Ponce says a lot of things.


By the way that you post you are now wayyyyyyyyyy ahead of what I say.......if I ever say anything that anyone thinks that is not true then call me on the carpet, there are two member here that I know that will back me up because I know them in person and one of them has been to my home.

Many time did I loose a sale because I would not sell AT THEIR PRICE because as I told them "I am in business to make money, not to make money for you".......and here I am today, sitting pretty.

One company that I turn down was Wally's World......who want's to be a slave, even for money?

Horn
15th August 2010, 10:07 AM
Things can't be too bad...there are no reports of people living in homeless camps, on the streets, in their cars, or in shelters.


Yeah right, that headline always makes it in somewhere near the obituaries ... :'(

Liquid
15th August 2010, 10:28 AM
One company that I turn down was Wally's World......who want's to be a slave, even for money?


Way to go Ponce!! You did the right thing. ;)

FunnyMoney
15th August 2010, 11:29 PM
In Hitlers own words about invading Russia.


If they were not prepared to give us of their own
free will the things we had to have, then we had no
alternative but to go and take them, in situ and by force.

Oh, so if your neighbor doesn't give of their own free will, it's ok for you to go take it from them anyways?

Not!
That's called stealing from your neighbors.

If nothing else, he was a theif.



The man, if you can call something that evil in such a nice way, was more than just a theif and a criminal. The crime of mass murder goes way back. Since a time long before that of Pol Pot, Hitler and those of the modern era, mass murder has been reserved mostly for individuals who claim the title of leader, politician and those of the cloth. These groups even outnumber military men on record for mass murder. If someone claims to be your leader or asks for your trust and support, it's almost always time to run the other way. Leaders, bankers, politicians start wars and foster crime, nearly 90% of all mass murders and wars would have never even started if it wasn't for these supposed 'professions'.

People simply don't get it. It is the definition of insanity, expecting a different result while following the same path over and over again. "This leader was worse than that one" Or, "this leader wasn't as bad as everyone claims." Leaders will be leaders - murderers will be murderers.

Mass murder might acutally be significant in the cosmic order of things. But I really don't know if you have to kill 6 or 6 million to qualify, I'll leave the numbers thing up to a higher authority. I'm just happy that even though they may be too evil to be called men, they always come under the jurisdiction of that higher authority in about the same number of years as the rest of mankind.

Book
16th August 2010, 02:30 AM
The crime of mass murder goes way back. Since a time long before that of Pol Pot, Hitler and those of the modern era, mass murder has been reserved mostly for individuals who claim the title of leader, politician and those of the cloth.



http://www.topnews.in/files/netanyahu_1.jpg

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FunnyMoney
16th August 2010, 10:21 PM
While it is the matrix, Book, this is not a game. If you think you can choose sides inside the matrix and come out ahead, you are gravely mistaken.

For every picture you come with of a leader from one side, I can come to you with a picture of a leader from another side. Do you think Arab leaders are less evil than their counterparts? If you were one of Saddam's victims, you might be singing a different tune. What about Mao, where's your pics of what he did? And leaders right here in our own backyard are also guilty of mass murder. Maybe we should clean up our own prior to pointing our fingers around the globe. Where are the treason trials for Bush? It looks like a slam dunk case to me. But that's just because I'm outside the matrix looking in.

Leaders are leaders, and murderers are murderers. They cross all colors, religions, political sectors and races. Taking sides is exactly what they hope the masses will do, because once they're done killing as many of their neighbors as they can they then turn on their own.