Hard Truths To Consider About College

[Stop Making Cents]

Asa a college grad, I can honestly say i learned very very little while i was there

http://wcfcourier.com/news/opinion/clayson/article_a82fd49c-abc0-11df-a5c4-001cc4c002e0.html?mode=story


School begins for many this week, and there are some hard truths about higher education that few wish to explore, let alone acknowledge.

1. Not everyone should go to college. Getting a higher education can be a marvelous experience, but it's just not for everyone.

I know of no country that attempts to educate everyone at this level. College was originally designed for students who are at least a standard deviation in academic aptitude above the mean. That eliminates all but about 16 percent of the population, and then a lot of those folks are wasting their time and money at a university.

John is a brighter than average high school student, but is not at the top of his class. He is good with his hands and understands how things work. His parents send him to college to become a lawyer.

He is in the bottom 20 percent of his law class. He graduates with an immense debt load and is considered to be a poor lawyer. He doesn't get much respect.

Suppose instead that John goes to a trade school to become a repairman. He is in the top 20 percent of this group. John the Repairman is highly respected. He has almost no debt, and he makes more money than John the Lawyer.

As an added bonus, society is in need of good repair persons, but we have no need for more bad lawyers.

2. Getting a college degree doesn't mean that you know anything. Modern universities don't require that students be knowledgeable to graduate. This sounds odd and administrators and teachers would claim that it is not true, but ask a simple question: What does a student need to know from a university to be allowed to graduate?

The answer is "nothing."

Students are required to complete a number of tasks. There is a long list of requirements. If they check each one off, they graduate. Students will work hard for grades; they will not necessarily work hard to know something. Modern schools have disassociated the two. Students memorize material, regurgitate it on an exam, and go their way.

Many students graduate knowing next to nothing. Don't take my word for it. I have been challenging my colleagues to test their students for years. I would love to be wrong on this, but ...

3. Grades don't reflect reality. There are entire areas of universities that give an automatic A to everyone unless they do poorly, and then they are given an A-minus. Much of this results from the improper use of student evaluations of teaching. Having students rate teachers is not a bad idea in itself, but it has evolved into a counter-productive travesty.

Imagine that at your workplace, several times every year, people you associate with are asked to fill out a questionnaire about you. They will remain anonymous and can say anything they wish. Management admits that it doesn't know what the surveys actually measure, but you will be denied merit pay, and perhaps even fired if your scores are low.

That in a nutshell is how universities use student evaluations.

Critics, and some supporters, maintain that the only reason that this system is maintained is administrative sloth and student crowd control.

Universities are essentially demanding that professors be well-liked by their students or they will be punished. Students are students because they don't know what they should know. The bottom line is that the evaluation system has resulted in grade inflation and a corresponding reduction in what students actually know.

Research over the last 10 years from all across the U.S. has consistently shown that teachers who get higher student evaluations produce students who tend to do more poorly in subsequent classes.

4. Like the housing market bubble, we may be approaching an education bubble. Paying a lot for an education makes sense if the returns are greater, but the cost of education is rising faster than the benefits. This has serious implications, which I will address in a forthcoming column.

[LuckyStrike]

Like they say "the A students work for the C students, the B students "work" for the government"

[Ponce]

I only made it to the 10th grade and with what I learned I was able to build my life and my :"fortune"... is not what you learn in school but rather what you learn after that.

[Sparky]

There are a number of valid points here. But here's some additional reality...

Like it or not, college degree is an admission ticket to a lot of career opportunities. It doesn't guarantee anything, but it is still a requirement. That's how the system is currently set up, right or wrong. To make matters worse, the best opportunities are provided to the students with degrees from particular schools. That's why admission to certain schools is more important than what you do after you're there. A college degree from, say, Princeton, doesn't guarantee skills or knowledge, but its a damn good indicator of learning aptitude.

We also live in a society that passes judgment on people based on their educational background. Many people who know that they are just as smart and capable as the next guy end up going through life wishing they had that piece of paper because they know they would be treated differently.

Those of you who bitch about people with government jobs that pay well but don't do anything... you usually need a college degree to get one.

Again, I'm not saying it's a good thing, but it's the current reality.

[Mouse]

The "grade your teacher" survey in college is known throughout the corp world as "upward feedback", where your underlings get to anonymously decide if they like you or not, or how you do things. If you are tough on people and expect high standards, and/or bluntly reprimand or punish non-performance, you get ding-ed on the upward, and these scores do feed into whether or not you get bonus, and could effect whether you get fired. Regardless of your actual results, the GBLT and everyone else in the organization, including the butches...oops, bitches from HR, must approve of how you operate. You will be assimilated, or separated and regurgitated to the street. It's the law of the borg.

I am seriously considering getting back into this madness as the survival prep, subsistence farming thing is really not that exciting and I want to have a few more big money highs, before tshtf.

It's a flickin addiction. When I think of myself in a powerful job right now, having been on my own doing bullshit and contract work as I can find it, it's almost worth moving back to the city, just for the high of doing "important" things that are rewarded in fiat.

We are all crazy.

[1970 silver art]

As a college graduate, I will admit that I made a mistake going to college in the first place. It really was not for me but I allowed myself to get brainwashed into thinking that the ONLY way to get a good job was to get a degree. That was my fault and I take responsibility for making that decision to go to college. I really did not know what I wanted to do with my life career wise (I still do not) but again I was brainwashed to believe that I would know once I get into college. Guess what? That did not happen.

I agree with Sparky that people do indeed pass judgment on people based on their educational background but it still was not worth for me. However for me, I did not care what people thought of my educational background.

I hear that,on average, a college graduate will make more than money than a HS graduate. That might be true but that does not necessarily mean that college graduates are better off financially than HS graduates. I am making numbers up here but I am trying to make a point with the following question. Which would you rather be........A HS graduate with a job making "only" $22,000/year with no debt or a college graduate from a "prestigious" university with a job making $50,000/year but has, for example, $100,000 in student loan debt? If I could go back to being 19 again knowing what I know now, then the answer for me would be.........A HS graduate with a job making only $22,000/year with no debt.

In my opinion, Being only a HS graduate but having no debt easily beats having a college degree with loads of debt that will take 10-15 years (or more) to pay off.

College is not for everyone. College is not a one-size-fits-all solution. A college degree does not guarantee that you will get a good job in a good job market but a college degree will more than likely will guarantee that a student will accumulate debt. That is the "hard truth" to consider about college.

[Neuro]

To be successfull in law, you should belong to the tribe, that is the most important, then you will get a kickstart through nespotism, add a lifelong effort of twisting and distorting the truth, when you are not outright lying, working 400 hours a week (according to your billing), charging an exhorbitant hourly rate.

If you do that you don't need to be a good student at Harvard at all, dad was a fund raiser...

[sunshine05]

I just heard about how there is a shortage of people in the midwest for trade jobs. I agree that college is not for everyone. Plus there are WAY too many kids graduating with psychology or sociology degrees, etc. and there are very few jobs for them.

[iOWNme]

College = Getting Indocturnation, Inculcation and Obedience training on how to better serve the STATE.





End of story.

[Ponce]

I do know this much, they can only teach you what they know and not what you should know...there is also a lot of difference in what you learn in the college that you attend.

[Joe King]

A college degree does not guarantee that you will get a good job in a good job market but a college degree will more than likely will guarantee that a student will accumulate debt. That is the "hard truth" to consider about college.
It just guarentees more fodder for the bottom of the debt pyramid.

When you live in a World where wealth is measured in debt, the last thing they want is for people to actually want to live within their means.
They need as many as possible to leverage their future potential earning power today, as that's what we're collectively living on.

[Liquid]

When I was in college, I took COBOL programming, anyone remember that? A couple years later, when I graduated, COBOL was obsolete and not used anymore.

What I like about this thread, is that it displays that there's a lot of us that can do OK working blue collar work. Coming from a white collar office job initially, and then doing trade work. I find personally I am a better fit for trade work. Office work, I did my best but was just average at my work.

I too early in life fell victim to the, must get a degree to be successful, brainwashing.

[1970 silver art]

When I was in college, I took COBOL programming, anyone remember that? A couple years later, when I graduated, COBOL was obsolete and not used anymore.

What I like about this thread, is that it displays that there's a lot of us that can do OK working blue collar work. Coming from a white collar office job initially, and then doing trade work work. I find personally I am a better fit for trade work. Office work, I did my best but was just average at my work.

I too early in life fell victim to the, must get a degree to be successful, brainwashing.


I am glad that you mentioned that because during my earlier semesters while in college, I also took some computer programming courses. I took courses in Pascal and FORTRAN. I made good grades in them but I was not interested in becoming a computer programmer. Why did I take them? I took them because someone told me that I can make a lot of money doing computer programming in those languages. I believed everything that the guidance counselors told me while in HS. Again I will take responsibility in allowing myself to get suckered.

As for you falling victim to the "must get a degree to be successful" brainwashing..........Welcome to the club fellow victim. ;D

[Sparky]

Let's make a few clarifications here.

1) You don't need a college degree to be educated, smart, have a good job, make a lot of money, or be happy.

2) The "value" of the college degree is not really in what they teach you, but rather that you got through some program and got a piece of paper. Like it or not, that is a pre-requisite for many, many jobs. Some people have no skill working with their hands and would be a failure at trying to learn a trade, thus making the piece of paper a necessity for making a good living.

3) Our society has made college a "transition environment" to adulthood, which is probably a good arrangement for a lot of kids.

4) A lot of "indoctrination" does go on at college. You've got to teach that to your kids so they are aware of it when it is happening. A generation ago, parents didn't know enough to provide this warning.

[Saul Mine]

It has been known for a long time that businessmen often dropped out of school before the eighth grade, and the sooner they dropped out the more likely they were to be successful. The best preparation was to be raised outside the USA with little or no formal schooling.

As for college, they don't teach you anything. They only scold you because you didn't learn it somewhere else.

[BabushkaLady]

Very interesting topic . . .

I cut grass and shoveled snow at age 9, age 11 I was cleaning old ladies houses, age 12 I delivered pizza "hand bills" for $1 per hour, age 14 I got a "real" job at the corner bakery.

I was an A student and proceeded to drop out of high school. Life was so much more fun!

I've hired college graduates that's I've had to show where 1/16" was on the ruler. I had a guy with a psychology degree working for me in a rather weird (for his degree) position.

College is Way Over-rated. Kids should be sent out into the yard to think up ways to buy their own candy. Motivated kids will find all kinds of creative ways to get other kids to help them for a small portion of the excess candy.

As far as being looked down upon for not having the Degree . . . the jokes on them!

[Ponce]

Heyyyyyyyyyy look at me, I am at the bottom of the barrel and yet........I made it......if I did it then so can anyone else ;D..................I love to brag about myself hahahahahahahaha........life is good.

A round peg for a round hole, a square peg for a square hole...........me? I made my hole as I wanted to.

[k-os]

I'm a college dropout, and being a dropout has actually helped me in my career.

I dropped out because I knew more than the professors in my chosen field. That was not a smart-assed opinion, it was a fact. I am sure they have caught up, but at the time, I had absolutely no respect for any of my professors, nor the material they were teaching. As previously stated, Fortran, Cobol . . . that's why I dropped out. I was already writing in languages that my college did not yet offer.

I was hired at my last job because I did not have a degree. I had experience, and plenty of impressive names on my resume, but no degree. You could only move up in that organization only if you had that piece of paper. I was hired because I did not threaten my boss's position. He only hired people without a degree, and they were all very smart, diligent, hard working people. It is interesting to note that my boss' piece of paper was in Food Science, while our department was IT and the company was sports related. ???

So it really does matter if you have one a degree or not. But it doesn't always matter what the degree is. And in rare cases like mine, having a degree could keep you from getting a job.

I would say that the most important skill to have in the white collar workplace is brown-nosing. I've seen people climb farther up the ladder in a professional environment if they can easily socialize with the "right" people. (Not something I care to do.)

And finally . . . Thank God I have never had a student loan!

[k-os]

^

It also never hurts to be beautiful woman. :-X


And, I was hired over the phone, sight-unseen, so neener neener on that, too.

But of course, thank you for the compliment!

[Liquid]

And finally . . . Thank God I have never had a student loan!


Yeah, what the heck happened with college fees? I paid for college pumping gas and delivering pizzas, graduated with no debt.

College is not worth debt, that's for sure.

[1970 silver art]

^

It also never hurts to be beautiful woman. :-X


And, I was hired over the phone, sight-unseen, so neener neener on that, too.

But of course, thank you for the compliment!


That was how I got hired when I got the job that I am currently at. I was interviewed over the phone. They did not know what I looked like. All they went on was my resume and my voice. In my opinion, it was my experience (5 years previous experience at that time) and my interview that got me the job that I am currently working at now. My college degree IMO did not really have that much impact on getting the job that I am currently at.

[1970 silver art]

And finally . . . Thank God I have never had a student loan!


Yeah, what the heck happened with college fees? I paid for college pumping gas and delivering pizzas, graduated with no debt.

College is not worth debt, that's for sure.


I agree with that. I speak from experience. I wish that I was not such a dumb-ass back then when I was taking out student loans to pay for school but I do take responsibility for my actions and I will get out of this within a few years and will be completely debt free in about 3 years. I am not worried about that. Experience can be a tough teacher.

[Liquid]

Experience can be a tough teacher.




Experience is the BEST teacher! Artman. ;D

If your loans helped your career, and quality of life, it was worth it. From my standpoint, if...and this my IF, you move into the trades for a living, your degree means squat.

It may help you get the job, but then it's up to you to perform.

The problem with college, is it doesn't teach you to work with your hands, to work in action. There was a big transition period for me, and once you get use to that, it becomes easier.

[1970 silver art]

Experience can be a tough teacher.




Experience is the BEST teacher! Artman. ;D

If your loans helped your career, and quality of life, it was worth it. From my standpoint, if...and this my IF, you move into the trades for a living, your degree means squat.

It may help you get the job, but then it's up to you to perform.

The problem with college, is it doesn't teach you to work with your hands, to work in action. There was a big transition period for me, and once you get use to that, it becomes easier.


Honestly my degree is useless in the current job that I am working at in the health insurance industry. I could have gotten this job without getting a college degree. I was one of those people that changed majors about 5 times during my time at college. I just did not know what I wanted to do with my life. I still do not really know what I want to do with my life. I do not think that I will ever know what I want to do with my life career wise. I went to college because I was brainwashed by my parents and HS guidance counselors into believing that a college degree was the ONLY way to get a good job.

I think that, if done right, a college education is a good thing that can open up more opportunities for the people who know or have some clue of what kind of career they want to pursue. College is not a good thing for people (such as myself) that did not have even the slightest clue of what they want to do with their lives.

I have never pursued a career a blue collar trade before and I cannot speak on that but if that works for you and you are doing what you like, then that is a good thing IMO.

[Joe King]

Let's make a few clarifications here.

1) You don't need a college degree to be educated, smart, have a good job, make a lot of money, or be happy.

2) The "value" of the college degree is not really in what they teach you, but rather that you got through some program and got a piece of paper. Like it or not, that is a pre-requisite for many, many jobs. Some people have no skill working with their hands and would be a failure at trying to learn a trade, thus making the piece of paper a necessity for making a good living.

3) Our society has made college a "transition environment" to adulthood, which is probably a good arrangement for a lot of kids.

4) A lot of "indoctrination" does go on at college. You've got to teach that to your kids so they are aware of it when it is happening. A generation ago, parents didn't know enough to provide this warning.


Thanks for clearly pointing out the BS of it all. All the other words do is help schmooze it over.

Apparently "higher" is to education what "new" is to math.

[Sparky]

Let's make a few clarifications here.

1) You don't need a college degree to be educated, smart, have a good job, make a lot of money, or be happy.

2) The "value" of the college degree is not really in what they teach you, but rather that you got through some program and got a piece of paper. Like it or not, that is a pre-requisite for many, many jobs. Some people have no skill working with their hands and would be a failure at trying to learn a trade, thus making the piece of paper a necessity for making a good living.

3) Our society has made college a "transition environment" to adulthood, which is probably a good arrangement for a lot of kids.

4) A lot of "indoctrination" does go on at college. You've got to teach that to your kids so they are aware of it when it is happening. A generation ago, parents didn't know enough to provide this warning.


Thanks for clearly pointing out the BS of it all. All the other words do is help schmooze it over.

Apparently "higher" is to education what "new" is to math.

You're welcome.

Yes, a lot of it is BS, in the BS society we live in.

That's why it's good to have in your back pocket, if you can get it without going broke. If you have a college degree, you can still learn a trade. If you have a college degree, you can still leave it off your resume if you think it will work against you for a particular job. It might even help to go to college to find out that you are smarter than those trying to teach you, because then you learn a valuable lesson about the BS system early in your life/career.

I agree, though, it's not worth taking on a lot of debt, unless you are pursuing a profession where you can recoup your losses. Josie gave an example of a HS grad making $22,000 with no debt, versus a college grad making $50,000 who owes $100,000. Simple math tells you the college grad will be ahead after four years, and will then stay ahead for the next 40 years.

One other thing...the value of a lot of the expensive prestigious schools is that you get connected to people in high places, and become networked with people who basically run things and can hire people into high paying jobs. Like they say, it's not always WHAT you know. More BS, I know. But reality.

[Joe King]

Let's make a few clarifications here.

1) You don't need a college degree to be educated, smart, have a good job, make a lot of money, or be happy.

2) The "value" of the college degree is not really in what they teach you, but rather that you got through some program and got a piece of paper. Like it or not, that is a pre-requisite for many, many jobs. Some people have no skill working with their hands and would be a failure at trying to learn a trade, thus making the piece of paper a necessity for making a good living.

3) Our society has made college a "transition environment" to adulthood, which is probably a good arrangement for a lot of kids.

4) A lot of "indoctrination" does go on at college. You've got to teach that to your kids so they are aware of it when it is happening. A generation ago, parents didn't know enough to provide this warning.


Thanks for clearly pointing out the BS of it all. All the other words do is help schmooze it over.

Apparently "higher" is to education what "new" is to math.

You're welcome.

Yes, a lot of it is BS, in the BS society we live in.

That's why it's good to have in your back pocket, if you can get it without going broke. If you have a college degree, you can still learn a trade. If you have a college degree, you can still leave it off your resume if you think it will work against you for a particular job. It might even help to go to college to find out that you are smarter than those trying to teach you, because then you learn a valuable lesson about the BS system early in your life/career.

I agree, though, it's not worth taking on a lot of debt, unless you are pursuing a profession where you can recoup your losses. Josie gave an example of a HS grad making $22,000 with no debt, versus a college grad making $50,000 who owes $100,000. Simple math tells you the college grad will be ahead after four years, and will then stay ahead for the next 40 years.

One other thing...the value of a lot of the expensive prestigious schools is that you get connected to people in high places, and become networked with people who basically run things and can hire people into high paying jobs. Like they say, it's not always WHAT you know. More BS, I know. But reality.


If the $100,000 debt was all they had, perhaps.
But that's not how it is. Add to that a 150k-250k mortgage, a 40k luxury car and the likely CC debt that goes along with living a life that started with a $50k entry-level job and I'd say there's a real good chance that financially they'll end up no better off.
Most people I've seen that take the route you describe, spend accordingly.
i.e. how many people you see with >50k a year driving a 10 year old car because it still runs good and serves its purpose? I'm sure there are some, but not most.
To me, most appear to be tryin' to "keep up". Which means more debt on top of debt. Which is what our system is ultimately based upon. So I suppose that's where the societal indoctrination part comes into play, too.

But to each their own, I'd say.

[zap]

I dropped out of high school, went to ROP for dental assisting, worked in a dental office for a yr , left home at 18 to drive a tractor for my brother in law, went back and got my GED, and worked as a waitress and a secretary while going to Jr college, got all the pre-requistes for the RN program but didn't get in with a B average, then my future husband decided he would start a restaurant since he could build the kitchen and he loved to cook, so we had a BBQ restaurant for 4 years, he got sick of it and so I ran it for a while, he went back to union sheet metal, then he had a heart attack and I hated the restaurant business so we closed it.

I started working for a company doing home health care and he decided to start his own sheet metal heating and a/c company, ( he always had alot of ideas) he said why don't quit your job and be my secretary, So taught myself how to run the books and he taught me sheet metal layout/ pattern development how to read blueprints, and a host of other things, I am still running it today.

So not much college for me, On the job training I guess, running our own business is alot of work but it is very lucrative and flexible, the office and shop are right here.

[sunshine05]

I think the point of the article is that college is not for everyone. That doesn't mean that no one should go to college though.

I purposely majored in a field that had a very low unemployment rate (chemistry). I chose this major because I knew there were a lot of job options in this field. I loved the work and I was constantly trying to move up to take on more responsibility and make more money. I started out making 15K as a lab technician my first job out of college and quit working 15 years later to stay home with the kids making 80K as a regional sales manager in the same field, with a company car. I could never have done it without the degree. I worked hard and never felt it was about who I knew or where I went to school. I had loans that took 10 years to pay off but it was worth it to me. And I can go back when/if I'm ready. So I don't have any regret whatsoever about getting my degree. I think it is a waste of time to earn a liberal arts degree but science, math and medical degrees can earn you pretty good money and stability.

[Saul Mine]

It also never hurts to be beautiful woman. :-X


No. You have been misled. It helps, and helps a lot, to be a well groomed woman. In fact, that is as good as being a well groomed man, in most cases. Being a beautiful woman is often a nuisance. Some men assume you are stupid and the rest consider you a distraction, and those are the best reactions a beautiful woman usually gets.

Anybody who thinks they need college should first master Dress For Success, the book by Rob Molloy. You will learn that the single most important influence on your earning ability is the ability to talk to people, chair a meeting, present a report, sell an idea. You will also learn that acting ability will always get you a job offer. A good suit is important only if the job requires it, but grooming is always important. That one book will teach you more info, and more important info, than four years of college. And if you learn anything important in college you will actually learn it from other students, not usually teachers. The most important benefit by far that college can offer you is a chance to meet other students and make future business contacts.

[Joe King]

I think the point of the article is that college is not for everyone. That doesn't mean that no one should go to college though.

I purposely majored in a field that had a very low unemployment rate (chemistry). I chose this major because I knew there were a lot of job options in this field. I loved the work and I was constantly trying to move up to take on more responsibility and make more money. I started out making 15K as a lab technician my first job out of college and quit working 15 years later to stay home with the kids making 80K as a regional sales manager in the same field, with a company car. I could never have done it without the degree. I worked hard and never felt it was about who I knew or where I went to school. I had loans that took 10 years to pay off but it was worth it to me. And I can go back when/if I'm ready. So I don't have any regret whatsoever about getting my degree. I think it is a waste of time to earn a liberal arts degree but science, math and medical degrees can earn you pretty good money and stability.


What you describe is called doing it the smart way.
i.e. obtaining a degree to help you in a specifically chosen career.

It's the one's silver art describes that represent so many of the rest.
i.e. the ones sold on gotta have it no matter what you plan to do.


IMHO, if you go into it for the piece of paper just so that it might help you get into an unknown-as-yet career field, it's not much better than a crap shoot.

[mamboni]

Be true to thy self in all life’s pursuits.

I grew up in a poor but happy loving family. My father was a brilliant creative man and a natural problem-solver. But he suffered from inferiority for having only a sixth grade education. I understood at a young age that intelligence, creativity and education are very poorly correlated. However, the three can synergize powerfully in some individuals! Be true to thy self. So I discovered a personal love, a passion for the sciences and especially chemistry, which came to me as naturally and easily as spoken language. In fifth grade, the teacher presented a chart of occupations and incomes. At the very top was “physicians.â€Â� I had a good idea what physicians did vis-ÃÂ*-vis science, anatomy, physiology etc. The teacher was quick to point out the long and arduous path to being a physician, the many years of study and sacrifice. In that instant, I decided to become a physician. It was the perfect solution to my three-pronged requirements for a life plan that would satisfy me personally:
1. Financially security. I lived through the grinding psychological slow torture of being poor and struggling financially through my parents and I swore that I would never live that way or subject my children to that. Yes, we were a happy loving family and money isn’t everything. But security and food on the table and roof over one’s head is everything, and in America that equates to having money.
2. Job security: I deduced that if becoming a physician took so many years of study and sacrifice, then there would never be a serious oversupply of them and my services would always be in demand.
3. Science, science and more science: A career built on my love of science, discovery and learning new things – what could be better than that!

Today, the value of formal education is much more a commodity than a calling. Even the investment of money and years required to become a physician has a dubious return on investment because of the increasing commodization of medical services.

Successful people I have known from all walks of life, some highly educated, some extremely intelligent or gifted, some not educated, some even devoid of haute culture or assemblance of pedigree. These people all shared the same personal characteristics which I have come to value, admire and emulate myself:
1. Love and passion for what they do. Love what you do for a living and it ceases to be a “job.�
2. Hard working, driven and ambitious
3. Sponges for knowledge but selective for that which accrues to their chosen goals
4. Affable, good conversationist, people person, gift of gab
A person with these characteristics will succeed irregardless of education or lack thereof. Besides, we live in a world where skill sets are obsolete in a few years. I think the 4-year college degree is becoming less relevant every day that passes. I think the really successful people will be those who can recognize opportunities before everyone else (genius), know how to find the team of people with the specific knowledge and skills to make their vision a reality, and the interpersonal skills to act as the glue that keeps highly skilled people from disparate backgrounds and points of view working together cohesively towards a common goal.

[Neuro]

"Be true to thy self in all life’s pursuits."

Yes do what you love to do and what you have talent for. Further make sure that what you want and can do has a 'market'...

[mamboni]

"Be true to thy self in all life’s pursuits."

Yes do what you love to do and what you have talent for. Further make sure that what you want and can do has a 'market'...


Amen!

[Silver Rocket Bitches!]

The problem with college, aside from the student loan usury, is they are designed to perpetuate the conditioning the public education system has instilled to accept whatever the "all knowing" teacher is spitting out.

These textbooks are written to close minds and produce drones, worker bees. If they tell you the Earth is flat, you will answer the Earth is flat aside from your principles because you desire that good grade.

I drank the kool aid and graduated from college. Not until a few years after I graduated did I realize this truth. They successfully keep you in a fishbowl perspective while you are enrolled.

It's hard to have an open mind when you are being induced to believe you have an open mind.

[sunshine05]

The problem with college, aside from the student loan usury, is they are designed to perpetuate the conditioning the public education system has instilled to accept whatever the "all knowing" teacher is spitting out.

These textbooks are written to close minds and produce drones, worker bees. If they tell you the Earth is flat, you will answer the Earth is flat aside from your principles because you desire that good grade.

I drank the kool aid and graduated from college. Not until a few years after I graduated did I realize this truth. They successfully keep you in a fishbowl perspective while you are enrolled.

It's hard to have an open mind when you are being induced to believe you have an open mind.


I don't know. I think it depends. I went to a very liberal school (Kent State) and had to read 1984 in my political thought class. Mostly I took science, math and technical courses. I didn't graduate feeling like I was influenced socially or politically.

[zap]

I have a cousin who put herself thru school , she is a teacher...... But she couldn't figure out how to get to the school, she was always lost.

My grandpa would tease her, " you may be book smart but you have no common sense"

[mamboni]

I have a cousin who put herself thru school , she is a teacher...... But she couldn't figure out how to get to the school, she was always lost.

My grandpa would tease her, " you may be book smart but you have no common sense"

...........................

[Joe King]

The problem with college, aside from the student loan usury, is they are designed to perpetuate the conditioning the public education system has instilled to accept whatever the "all knowing" teacher is spitting out.

These textbooks are written to close minds and produce drones, worker bees. If they tell you the Earth is flat, you will answer the Earth is flat aside from your principles because you desire that good grade.

I drank the kool aid and graduated from college. Not until a few years after I graduated did I realize this truth. They successfully keep you in a fishbowl perspective while you are enrolled.

It's hard to have an open mind when you are being induced to believe you have an open mind.


I don't know. I think it depends. I went to a very liberal school (Kent State) and had to read 1984 in my political thought class. Mostly I took science, math and technical courses. I didn't graduate feeling like I was influenced socially or politically.

That was required reading in HS for me.

[horseshoe3]

All they went on was my resume and my voice.


And on your first day, you found out your boss was Jackie Gleason. "You sounded a little taller on the phone."

[Saul Mine]

Nobody has ever tried to define exactly what a college is, or ought to be. The students think it exists for their benefit, but that is obviously not true. The teachers think the same way, and they have more influence, but they are still wrong. The dean often feels like a rubber duck in a shooting gallery, but he has the most influence so he commands the most protection, but still the dean is not the reason for a college's existence.

Does a college exist to impart knowledge? That is a frequently offered argument, but knowledge is awfully lame when compared to the amount of opinion that is imparted.

The government thinks a college exists to house inventors, or something, and directs a steady flow of money to maintain them in case the military needs something from them. The flow of money seems like a major reason, and that is in fact reason enough, but the recipients of federal grants never seem to be able to live within a budget, and they eventually have to sell flea market stalls and naming rights and other nonsense to raise more cash. It might lead you to wonder "If a college is a repository of knowledge and wisdom, how come they never have enough sense to keep their affairs in order?"