Does God Love Israel? [Archive] - Gold-Silver Forums

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StackerKen

31st August 2010, 04:21 PM

I know many of you don't like Jews or "Zionists"
Many of you claim the the Jews are responsible for many bad things in this world..

I don't doubt that they are.

Many times in in the bible God was Not pleased with Israel. And he may be still not happy with them and what they do..

As far as I am concerned, That's between God and the Jews...

The Bible tells me that They (the real Israelites ) are His people (even though they don't deserve it)

...

Does God Love Israel?

To the people of Israel:

"Do not be afraid. Stand still, and see the salvation of the LORD, which He will accomplish for you today. The LORD will fight for you, and you shall hold your peace." (Exodus 14:13-14)

God loves you, people of Israel, do not fear these growing trials of the world, or that which man can bring against you, but fear and honor Him who covers you with His protective hand.. Just as God did not bring you out of Egypt to destroy you in the wilderness, so He has not restored you as a people and a nation only to allow you to be destroyed by evil men today.

God restored you to your land to fulfill His promise that all the nations would be blessed through you. Be encouraged, trust in your God and rest in His promises to you.

"For I will set My eyes on them for good, and I will bring them back to this land; I will build them and not pull them down, and I will plant them and not pluck them up." (Jeremiah 24:6)

We, as Scripture believing Christians, yearn to see your people given thrones of judgment to rule over this planet. We trust in God's choice of the Jews as the ruling race for all eternity.

But we challenge you to search the teachings of your own prophets and the teaching of God through your own Torah in order to find the Name of your true Messiah. See: Y'SHUAH

You are His People

The Jews are "the children of the promise" (Romans 9:7-9), the physical descendants of Abraham through Isaac and Jacob. God calls the Jews His chosen:

For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God, and the Lord hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth. Deuteronomy 14:2

For thou hast confirmed to thyself thy people Israel to be a people unto thee for ever: and thou, Lord, art become their God. 2 Samuel 7:24

Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance. Psalm 33:12

For the Lord hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure. Psalm 135:4

So that we not mistakenly think the Jews are a special race outside of the honor afforded them through God, we must consider that the Jews are not God's chosen people through any merit of their own, but because He loves them as a nation:

The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people: Deuteronomy 7:7-8

We gentile Christians are sinners, as also the Jews are sinners, and we all, gentile and Jew, are in need of redemption.

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Romans 3;23

However, unlike us gentiles, the Jewish people have been chosen and set apart as a nation. God Himself went out to redeem them as a nation:

And what one nation in the earth is like thy people, even like Israel, whom God went to redeem for a people to himself, and to make him a name, and to do for you great things and terrible, for thy land, before thy people, which thou redeems to thee from Egypt, from the nations and their gods? 2 Samuel 7:23

As great as was their calling, so too, great is the cost of their failing in that calling, as Moses warned the children of Israel it would be.

But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee...Deuteronomy 28:15-68

The Jews (as all of us) have rebelled, sinned, and for a time, have turned their back on God, yet in His love for Israel, God did not make a complete end of them:

Therefore say, Thus says the Lord GOD; Although I have cast them far off among the heathen, and although I have scattered them among the countries, yet will I be to them as a little sanctuary in the countries where they shall come. Ezekiel 11:16

Therefore say, Thus says the Lord GOD; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel. Ezekiel 11:17

God's commitment to Israel is eternal and will not fail

Although He promised to scatter the Jews, and cause them to "pay double for all their sins," God also swore that He would one day gather those who were left and return them to their land:

And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. Isaiah 11:11

And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. Isaiah 11:12
God said that this restoration to their land would follow an unprecedented time of suffering at the hands of gentiles, but that He would save them out from under it:

Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.... Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, says the LORD; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid. Jeremiah 30:7-10

And He promised that this physical ingathering and replanting as a people in their ancient homeland would be both a positive event, and a permanent one:

And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them. Amos 9:14

And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, says the LORD thy God. Amos 9:15

God said that He would restore the Jews to their land in their blind and sinful state. But He has also promised that after they are back in their land, He will cause them to call out to Him for forgiveness. And when they do, He will cleanse them and thoroughly restore them in their relationship to Him:

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. Zechariah 12:10

In conclusion; Yes, God does love Israel, and the Jewish people all over the world are His chosen ones.

ximmy

31st August 2010, 05:25 PM

Ken, here are a couple NT verses for considerationâ€¦ I noticed you used (mostly) OT verses to support the claimâ€¦ I'd say, before the NT, Israel was chosen, today I read it that all people are "chosen" in the eyes of Godâ€¦
ximy

This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.
(Ephesians 3:6)

For there is no difference between Jew and Gentileâ€”the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him. (Romans 10:12)

There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Galatians 3:28-29)

Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all. Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. (Colossians 3:11-12)

StackerKen

31st August 2010, 05:30 PM

Fortyone

31st August 2010, 05:31 PM

Of course God loves Israel.What he doesnt love is how they act!

StackerKen

31st August 2010, 05:32 PM

Romans 11

The Remnant of Israel

1I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don't you know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijahâ€”how he appealed to God against Israel: 3"Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me"[a]? 4And what was God's answer to him? "I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal." 5So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.
7What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened, 8as it is written:
"God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes so that they could not see
and ears so that they could not hear,
to this very day."[d] 9And David says:
"May their table become a snare and a trap,
a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
10May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see,
and their backs be bent forever."

Ingrafted Branches

11Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring!
13I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry 14in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.

17If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

All Israel Will Be Saved

25I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
"The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27And this is[f] my covenant with them
when I take away their sins."
28As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you. 32For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

philo beddoe

31st August 2010, 06:20 PM

FUCK ISRAEL

shakinginmyshoes

31st August 2010, 06:42 PM

When you say "Israel" do you mean the people currently occupying the real estate on recent maps labelled "Israel"? Or do you mean Hebrews?

I dispute that the ethny known as Ashkenazim being in Palestine is "fulfillment of biblical prophesy."

I am convinced the "Christian Zionists" have been conned.

I dispute that the ethny known as Ashkenazim are special.

They're smarter than worldwide average. I'll give you that. They are also exceedingly ethnocentric. And they are very, very good at verbal jousting.

They're smart because they used ethnic networking in the middle ages to get into lucrative jobs (like usury) and the smartest ones had more kids.

http://www.jerrypournelle.com/archives2/archives2mail/mail264.html#smarts

(latest research puts Ashkenazi avg. IQ at 107, not 112.)

However, the IQ advantage is all verbal. Visuospatial is average or slightly below. (Maybe that's why they think modern art is good stuff. heh)

NOTE: Episcopalians have a similar IQ, 107, as do ethnic Germans.

Also, Ashkenazi genetics clusters somewhere between Euros and middle easterners, slightly more middle eastern than Armenians / Turks.

Does the Creator love them? I would assume so. But are they the Hebrews of the bible? Hm. I'm not at all convinced they are.

Some fair genetic evidence that the actual descendants of the Hebrews would today be assumed to be Arabs, currently being oppressed by the Ashkenazi occupiers.

Consider, Ken, the Jew-worship that occurs in many modern evangelical churches may, in fact, be idolatry.

RJB

31st August 2010, 06:45 PM

A good portion are also atheist as well.

(Nothing against atheists, but Jesus spoke pretty harshly of those who followed the law for the law and ignore God.)

Tinman

31st August 2010, 07:07 PM

The Relationship of the God of Israel and the Unregenerate Jew

Christians who are ignorant of the Scripture embrace a great many foolish and naive beliefs, for which they pay dearly. One of the most insidious of such beliefs is the notion that the God of the Jew and the God of the Christian are one and the same. Because of this false belief, most Christians mistakenly think that the principal issue which divides Talmudic Judaism and Christianity is the understanding that Jesus is the Christ, that is, the "Messiah". But the division between Talmudic Judaism and the Christian Faith involves many matters of a fundamental nature.

The Scripture teaches that the Godhead is a family, consisting of God the Father and God the Son; the Son also is known as the Word, John 1:1-5. The Word laid aside the attributes of deity, Philippians 2:5-11, and became flesh, John 1:14, that he might fulfill a number of roles, one of which is that of the covenant sacrifice by which the New Covenant was instituted, Hebrews 9:15-17. But the Jew adamantly rejects the concept of a Godhead composed of multiple persons; this, despite passages of Old Covenant scripture, such as the second Psalm, which clearly portray the Godhead as a father-son relationship. So, without equivocation, the God which the Jew worships is not the God of the Bible.

A related false belief is the notion that the Jew enjoys covenantal relationship with God the Father on the basis of the promises which God made to Abraham and to his seed, despite the fact that the Jew rejects Jesus as the Christ. This notion fails on two counts. First, the Scripture declares that it is only through the Son that man may have relationship with the Father, John 14:6, John 8:19, I John 2:22-23, II John 1:9-11. Second, the Scripture declares that the "seed" of Abraham is not the physical nation Israel, but, rather, Christ Jesus, Galatians 3:16. Accordingly, with respect to the promises made to Abraham, none of the descendants of the line Abraham-Isaac-Jacob are counted as the "seed" of Abraham, except they be in Christ Jesus. Thus, the unregenerate Jew has absolutely no claim upon the promises which God made to Abraham.

Nor can anyone--Jew or otherwise--today claim any of the promises made under the Old Covenant. This is because the Old Covenant was a marriage covenant between the nation Israel and the second person of the Godhead. A marriage covenant is irreversibly dissolved upon the death of either husband or wife. Thus, the Old Covenant was dissolved, irreversibly and forever, with the crucifixion of Christ Jesus.

...

End-Time Prophecy and the Jewish State

Contrary to the teaching which today is prevalent, virtually all prophecy has been fulfilled. The next event on the prophetic agenda is the Resurrection. Until then, the spiritual condition of the Christians of each generation is the primary factor which determines whether the world--the kosmos--experiences peace or war, tranquility or turmoil, freedom or slavery, justice or oppression, health or disease, prosperity or famine. The situation is much as it was in the days of old, when the environment of Israel as a nation changed from generation to generation, as the people went through the perennial cycle of prosperity, apostasy, oppression, and repentance.

The Jews of this day, having rejected Jesus as the Christ, correspond to the vile, rotten figs of the 24th chapter of the prophecy of Jeremiah. Having no covenantal relationship with the Eternal, the unregenerate Jew has been "dispersed into all the kingdoms of the earth", to be "a reproach, and a proverb, and an object of hatred, and a curse" wherever he is found, Jeremiah 24:9.

Contrary to the arguments of contemporary Bible teachers, the Jewish state which came into existence in A.D. 1948 has no prophetic significance. Conceived in duplicity, brought forth in iniquity, parasitic by nature, the modern Jewish state is little more than a den of thieves, wherein reside the very dregs of humanity: cutthroats, extortioners, murderers, assassins, destroyers, kidnappers, robbers, usurers, and liars--men unable to comprehend concepts such as truth and justice and mercy and forgiveness; cf. Matthew 21:12-13, Mark 11:15-17, Luke 19:46-47. The book of Acts and the epistles of New Covenant scripture document how, in the first century A.D., the unregenerate Jew was fierce and relentless in his persecution of Christ Jesus, of the apostles, and of the Church, which behaviour brought upon the Jew "wrath to the uttermost", I Thessalonians 2:14-16. The Jew of the present day walks in the footsteps of his fathers.

Sadly, many contemporary Christians have been deluded into the belief that, somehow, the nature of the Jew of the present day differs from the nature of the Jew who murdered Jesus. And Christians of this day have been indoctrinated with a perverse revision of history--a revision in which the Jew is the victim and the Church is the agent of persecution. But the fact of the matter is that, even as the leopard is unable to change his spots, and the Ethiopian, his skin, so also the unregenerate Jew is unable to change his depraved nature, Jeremiah 13:23. And the fact of the matter is that the Jew ever has been and ever shall be the persecutor of the Church.

Most Bible teachers of the present day claim that there is coming a final seven-year segment of the "Jewish dispensation", during which a third temple shall be constructed and Jews en masse shall embrace Jesus as the Messiah. Supposedly, this period of history commences with the "rapture" of the Church, and culminates in a final battle called Armageddon, in which the armies of the world shall converge upon Jerusalem. Supposedly, the Jews shall be rescued by the return of Christ.

...

There shall be no earthly, physical third temple, for the era of Israel as a physical nation ended for ever with the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. In accordance with his own prophecy (recorded in John 2:19), Jesus himself, upon his resurrection, began construction of the final, eternal temple; this is temple composed of living stones, I Peter 2:5, a temple which has been under construction for two thousand years.

Saul Mine

31st August 2010, 09:37 PM

To whom is this addressed? You seem to confuse Israelites, Jews, Hebrews, and maybe the residents of the country called Israel. These are not all the same people.

StackerKen

1st September 2010, 11:14 AM

To whom is this addressed? You seem to confuse Israelites, Jews, Hebrews, and maybe the residents of the country called Israel. These are not all the same people.

I realize they are not all the same people.

But who am I to sort them out?

Do you know which ones are which?

I figure I should let God "Separate the wheat from the chaff"

Matthew 13
24Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
27"The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'

28" 'An enemy did this,' he replied.
"The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'

29" 'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.' "

Fortyone

1st September 2010, 04:09 PM

The real question here is, Why would you even care? Honestly, they rejected and condemned Christ, the entire basis for their religion and culture is greed and manipulation. Your Job as a Christian is to show the world the teachings of Christ, not "respect" other faiths. I dont respect any other religions but Christianity.

People here may have noticed Im extremely hard on Islam,This is because I believe Islam is a false religion.Judaism falls in the same category,BUT I feel Muslims have the ability to be redeemed, Jews,do not and here is why.

Jews are fatalists,everyone talks about ignoring the "Elephant in the room" well that Elephant has its own pachyderm wandering in its living room.Fatalism! Judaism is very vague to nill on the afterlife.Islam and Christianity both have beliefs concerning a reward of paradise for living a good life. Jews do not,they speak of a "resurrection" in a future time a "Messianic age" after living a God fearing life.Problem is, they do not recognize other people as having redemptions.

Jews do not try and convert,they do not want to convert Goyim,as we are sub humans and not worthy to them. This fatalistic mentality is the root of all Jewish issues.They get what they can now while on earth,whatever way they can to ensure their survival until this future Messiah appears.That is why they manipulate governments,and are so greedy.They simply do not care about other people!When Muslims or Christians act in the manner that Jews do, they know they are going against their God's will,Jews simply feel they are doing what God expects them to do. Compounded by the Khazar culture most of them carry and Talmudic teachings ,this makes them especially vile.

StackerKen

1st September 2010, 10:36 PM

thanks for that post Fortyone

Hmmmm..

Thinking now :-\

StackerKen

1st September 2010, 10:42 PM

Book

1st September 2010, 11:18 PM

We, as Scripture believing Christians, yearn to see your people given thrones of judgment to rule over this planet. We trust in God's choice of the Jews as the ruling race for all eternity.

http://web.cn.edu/kwheeler/images/circular_reasoning.gif

Some jews wrote the Old Testament claiming that god wants jews to rule the goyim and we only know that god said this because it is written in the Old Testament written by those jews...lol.

:ROFL:

Fortyone

2nd September 2010, 02:47 AM

fortyone; Doesn't the bible say some of the Jews will believe in the end and be saved?

Romans 11:25-26
For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery, lest you be wise in your own estimation, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; and thus all Israel will be saved."

Of course SOME will be saved, God doesnt lie,buy he made a covenant with the HEBREWS,not the present nation of Israel,It may be 200,000 or just 2 who knows?.Again,look at what your quoting. Romans wasnt written for Jews. Romans was written for believers in Christ its a New Testament book. The words "Israel" and "gentiles" in this instance are referring to the followers of Christ,and non believers. Dont take the NT so literal.Its very abstract and broad. This is a problem with many so called Christians, they think by patronizing Judaism they are getting closer to Christ, when in actuality , they are further away! These "Ministers" should just admit they converted to Judaism and be honest about it.

SHTF2010

2nd September 2010, 03:24 AM

Book

2nd September 2010, 07:11 AM

This is a problem with many so called Christians, they think by patronizing Judaism they are getting closer to Christ, when in actuality , they are further away! These "Ministers" should just admit they converted to Judaism and be honest about it.

http://brookjames.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/2006-09-25_220447_jesus_surfing.jpg

http://www.dailystoke.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/west_of_jesus_surfing.jpg

http://www.surfguitar.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/jesus-christ-surferstar-alb.jpg

:D

DMac

2nd September 2010, 07:26 AM

Lol book, Andrew Lloyd Weber (http://gold-silver.us/forum/general-discussion/not-guilty-the-israeli-captain-who-emptied-his-rifle-into-a-palestinia-12023/msg104206/#msg104206) getting playtime at GSUS today

StackerKen

2nd September 2010, 09:02 AM

you know what guys?

Until I came to G-S. US I never really thought much about Jews and Israel

I have never been a "supporter" of Israel. I certainly don't patronize Judaism

And I don't think it is my duty or call to support Israel or the Jews

The Bible Teachers I listen to are not Christian Zionists. (Hank Hanegraaff, J. Vernon McGee,John MacArthur, etc)
I really don't even care much about this issue...

I never even gave it much thought Until Recently.

But because of all the "Jew Hate" I felt I should say something here.

I just figured I would try to show folks on this board what the Bible says about Israel

Thats all.

BTW Thank you Book and Pat and others for Blessing me ;D

Jesus said

"Blessed are you when people insult you,
persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
Matthew 5:11

RJB

2nd September 2010, 10:26 AM

God loves his creation. He didn't create modern "Israel." The UN did.

It's like the "General Welfare" clause in the constitution. There is no provision in the constitution for giving tax dollars to the poor (or corporations for that matter) so they call it "welfare."

That gives me an idea. I'll call my backyard "Isreal." I'll get Pastor Hagee to tell people that the only hope for the US is to support Isreal. I could use a few trillion and the latest weaponry. ;D