Discussing Jap internment during WWII w/my 19 year old daughter

[Libertarian_Guard]

We both agree that it was wrong, but I understand it as necessary, because of the time and circumstances. She isn’t listening to my position about the American Military not truly understanding Jap troop strength at the time, and the possibility that if parts of this country were invaded, Americans of Jap decent would be placed before intelligence officers with the choice of reading maps and answering all questions or being shot. And at that point it would not matter in the least that they were loyal American citizens. They would have complied, and it would have cost additional American lives.
I didn’t even mention the fear of sabotage, but I sure she has heard that before.

Now she’s saying that I am not much of a libertarian if I condone the internment. While I’m arguing that in war time all assumptions of liberty are off, as the war machine takes precedence. Freedom & liberty and all are great ideals to live by, but they make a very weak case for themselves when a nation is professed to be fighting for its existence.

It is tough being something more than just a monetary libertarian and agreeing that the war machine trumps such principles and ethics, because at such times, if one stands too firmly against TPTB, it could cost you your life.

I was born a generation after WWII, but I know full well that I would not have protested against the internment. I would have supported the decision.

I told her that America was so far to the military / political right that had the Japs been successful in overrunning much of this country, the interned Japs would have been put to death rather than be liberated, in much the same fashion as what the Germans did in Poland towards the end of the war. But that is another debate, our conversation just sort of opened a door and led me that way. I could tell by the look on her face that I was way off topic and several steps ahead of her. So I backed off and went back to basics, and we remain in disagreement.

What was I missing here?

Or can you shoot down my understanding of the need for the internment camps, even though they were clearly unconstitutional?

[chad]

you lose, she wins. freedom isn't conditional upon "what was happening on tuesday afternoon."

you are either for freedom, or you aren't.

[Heimdhal]

You shoot down your own understanding of internment with your last sentence. They were clearly unconstitutional and whats more, against the natural rights of man.

Shes right, you're not much of a libertarian if you think that just because were in a war, all bets should be off.


Hey, you're a potential enemy combatant and/or home grown terrorist, were gonna detain you in gitmo indefinitley because you might at some point sabotage something, somewhere, somehow. Were at war, so you have no rights, but I'm glad you understand why we have to do this.

[philo beddoe]

We both agree that it was wrong, but I understand it as necessary, because of the time and circumstances. She isn’t listening to my position about the American Military not truly understanding Jap troop strength at the time, and the possibility that if parts of this country were invaded, Americans of Jap decent would be placed before intelligence officers with the choice of reading maps and answering all questions or being shot. And at that point it would not matter in the least that they were loyal American citizens. They would have complied, and it would have cost additional American lives.
I didn’t even mention the fear of sabotage, but I sure she has heard that before.

Now she’s saying that I am not much of a libertarian if I condone the internment. While I’m arguing that in war time all assumptions of liberty are off, as the war machine takes precedence. Freedom & liberty and all are great ideals to live by, but they make a very weak case for themselves when a nation is professed to be fighting for its existence.

It is tough being something more than just a monetary libertarian and agreeing that the war machine trumps such principles and ethics, because at such times, if one stands too firmly against TPTB, it could cost you your life.

I was born a generation after WWII, but I know full well that I would not have protested against the internment. I would have supported the decision.

I told her that America was so far to the military / political right that had the Japs been successful in overrunning much of this country, the interned Japs would have been put to death rather than be liberated, in much the same fashion as what the Germans did in Poland towards the end of the war. But that is another debate, our conversation just sort of opened a door and led me that way. I could tell by the look on her face that I was way off topic and several steps ahead of her. So I backed off and went back to basics, and we remain in disagreement.

What was I missing here?

Or can you shoot down my understanding of the need for the internment camps, even though they were clearly unconstitutional?


1) you really are deluded
2) The whole story is just some made p bit the SPLC handed you to make the few here believe you are a true man of conscience

I'm going with 2
don't believe you at all

[LuckyStrike]

I suppose you agree with dropping the bombs on dresden, hiroshima and nagasaki too huh?

[Libertarian_Guard]

I suppose you agree with dropping the bombs on dresden, hiroshima and nagasaki too huh?


Well, yes.

I regret the loss of life, but it had to be done.

[Gaillo]

I suppose you agree with dropping the bombs on dresden, hiroshima and nagasaki too huh?


Well, yes.

I regret the loss of life, but it had to be done.


I've wondered about you in the past... no more. Welcome to my shiit list - a well-earned greeting!

[philo beddoe]

I suppose you agree with dropping the bombs on dresden, hiroshima and nagasaki too huh?


Well, yes.

I regret the loss of life, but it had to be done.
Hey, it's Sean Hannitty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LuckyStrike]

I suppose you agree with dropping the bombs on dresden, hiroshima and nagasaki too huh?


Well, yes.

I regret the loss of life, but it had to be done.


I won't hijack your thread, I appreciate your honesty.

[Libertarian_Guard]

I suppose you agree with dropping the bombs on dresden, hiroshima and nagasaki too huh?


Well, yes.

I regret the loss of life, but it had to be done.


I won't hijack your thread, I appreciate your honesty.


Welcome to the internet, feel free to say whatever is on your mind.

[RJB]

Does your name come from guarding libertarians at FEMA Camps? ;D

[hoarder]

Up until recent decades, it was given that people would be loyal to their race. It was not some "raysist ideology", but rather recognized human nature. The word "racist" was not even part of the English language until the late thirties.
Human nature has not changed but indoctrination has.

If Americans were living in Japan during WW2, they would have been treated much worse.

What does all this prove? That multiculturalism doesn't work.

[LuckyStrike]

What does all this prove? That multiculturalism doesn't work.


Exactly right, every race is racially aware and outwardly prefers being around their own. Of course this natural situation is demonized for the White man so you are supposed to feel like their is something wrong with you if you would rather hang out with your own kind than a hodge podge.

As you also point out ideally in a homogenous society OP's question wouldn't even need to be asked.

Seeing as we are not at all homogenous it is also the biggest downfall to libertarian thinking, since in order for freedom to work you have to govern yourself, which not every race can do, and if you have laws governing some and not others it's called "racism" so then you have everyone living under the rule of the lowest common denominator.

It's like having children and your 18 year old has the same rules as the 5 year old because your 5 year old says it's "ageist" to discriminate against him based on age.

[Ash_Williams]

You're arguing the ideal vs covering your butt. The ideal can be strong enough to succeed when people have the balls to stick to it. It's risky.

That being said... I don't have those kind of balls. I'm no Gandhi. Like most people I will end a threat to myself in the least risky way possible. It really depends how much faith you have in your beliefs, and how much tolerance you have for self-sacrifice.

You can turn your other cheek to a man and maybe that will appeal to his nature and force him to feel bad about what he has done. But you can't turn the other cheek to a rabid dog and expect anything to change. How would the Japanese have reacted? They had kamikaze pilots - I don't know how much of their human nature was left to appeal to.

[hoarder]

Seeing as we are not at all homogenous it is also the biggest downfall to libertarian thinking, since in order for freedom to work you have to govern yourself, which not every race can do, and if you have laws governing some and not others it's called "racism" so then you have everyone living under the rule of the lowest common denominator.In Libertarian ideology, there are only individuals, and they are individual units of production.
BTW, the same is true for communism, and the same tribe invented both ideologies.
Of course the latter does not want us to have any freedom at all, but if they had not filled the liberty void with the writings of their "great thinkers", we would have done so without them and it would have turned out poorly for them. This way they have some measure of control. They like to have the freedom to give us all the rope we need to hang ourselves with and if we resist they say "you are either for freedom, or you aren't"

Sorry for the derail, LG.

[Horn]

Libertarian ideology

Is there a non sequitur there?

[Stop Making Cents]

Don't forget to tell her about the millions of Italian and German Americans that were interned by our government. The media and schools sure won't mention it, yet she'll be taught to feel guilty over the Jap internment.

[dysgenic]

So as I understand you the American Government did this for their own good? Now that you explain it that way, I feel so much better about the whole thing.

dys

[Apparition]

Long before WWII, Japan was an isolationist society that barely had any contact with the outside world for many decades if not centuries.

During the 1800s, I believe, the US government decided to force the Japanese people into trading with the US.

Had the US government not interfered in the affairs of the Japanese it's likely that there wouldn't have been a Pacific Theater for the WWII and little to no chance for US involvement in WWII.

And if so, there would've likely been no reason to intern anyone or violate the US Constitution whatsoever.

[joe_momma]

I suppose you agree with dropping the bombs on dresden, hiroshima and nagasaki too huh?


Well, yes.

I regret the loss of life, but it had to be done.


Hindsight is 20/20 - had Harry Truman known the Soviets would declare war on Japan (after f*cking around in Asia for 4 years with an uneasy state of peace) and overwhelm the IJA in a matter of days perhaps he would have held back.

Given the best information he appears to have had (FDR seems to have not told Harry much of anything) the decision to bomb Hiroshima and Kokura (Nagasaki was the alternate - clouds prevented Sweeney from his primary target) the decision to atom bomb Japan made sense -

The atrocities from Nanjing and the Philippines were well known to British and US "intelligence" - the Bushido warrior code simply made no sense to European/Western forces. The absurd ineptness of the US Navy at Okinawa scared the sh*t out of the planners as scenarios of thousands of US GIs and (literally) millions of Japanese militias were expected to die during an invasion of mainland Japan.

The use of Kamikazes (Coral Sea and onwards) reinforced this - the inscrutable fiendish yellow brain was not to be trusted. (BTW - the US clearly failed to learn the lesson, hence the stunning military/political failures of Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos).

The choice to bomb Japan was about preventing the loss of US lives. For the Japanese, I suspect the attitude was "tough sh*t" - (the issues around the Russo-Japan war, WWI betrayal, FDR's decision to cut off oil and scrap iron, the systematic starvation of Japan via sub warfare, and the horror of the firebombing a nation of wooden paper buildings are excluded here).

In truth, the bombing of a purely civilian (and previously unbombed) city of Hiroshima and the industrial city of Nagasaki were not needed - though I do not think Stalin ever hinted at his intent to move east - the campaign of the Soviet armor corps against the literally starving and obsolete Imperial Japanese Army was like a professional boxer beating a 3 year old - there was no chance of IJN even holding a rear guard.

As for the suspension of civil rights for west coast Japanese , this was another example of Baracks FDRs willingness to ignore that pesky Constitution. (Lincoln pulled the same basic crap during the war of Northern Aggression.) Japanese citizens were pretty much interned because they could be readily identified (and locals made huge profits stealing their property - yes, parallels to the National Socialists treatment of Jews in Germany exist.)

Had I been Truman, I'd have made the same decision - minimize US life loss, end the war as quickly as possible and avoid the invasion of Japan's mainland at all costs (I suspect Britain (and ANZAC/India) would have been less than enthusiastic about joining the US in the invasion.

[joe_momma]

Long before WWII, Japan was an isolationist society that barely had any contact with the outside world for many decades if not centuries.

During the 1800s, I believe, the US government decided to force the Japanese people into trading with the US.

Had the US government not interfered in the affairs of the Japanese it's likely that there wouldn't have been a Pacific Theater for the WWII and little to no chance for US involvement in WWII.

And if so, there would've likely been no reason to intern anyone or violate the US Constitution whatsoever.


Perry's fleet in Japan was a foreign policy choice - a growing US economy needed new markets - China and Africa were sewn up by Colonial Europe, Latin America was already ours (and of limited value since their agrarian exports were of little use to an industrializing nation), Japan was a "freebie" - backward but organized, a great coaling station for the Navy - what could possibly go wrong?

Perhaps the US realized the mistake after the Russo-Japan conflict (the Russians got their butts kicked), the stupidity after WWI ensured a Shogunate would militarize Japan - and Korea paid the price (China, French Indochina, and Philippines would also).

At the time, it made sense I suppose- in hindsight, I dunno - though I am not convinced that the isolationism of the 1870s and 1920s and 30's were a valid alternate.

[wildcard]

I suppose you agree with dropping the bombs on dresden, hiroshima and nagasaki too huh?


Well, yes.

I regret the loss of life, but it had to be done.


I've wondered about you in the past... no more. Welcome to my shiit list - a well-earned greeting!


So glad I can say this "I TOLD YOU SO!" :P

[iOWNme]

"Busy giddy minds with foreign quarrels..."

[Joe King]

At any time, the internment of any Americans minus evidence of treason is most definitely wrong.

The bombings on the other hand is what happens in war.
IMHO, if war is being waged, anything of the enemys is fair game. I mean, it's not like it's a sporting competition where points are being kept in order to determine a winner.
It's kill your enemy before he kills you.

Is it something one should want to do, or feel proud of? No.
Neither should having to ram a bayonet through the heart of an enemy soldier in the heat of battle.

Rather, it's a simple matter of needing to break their will to fight before they break yours, and to do so in the most effective way possible so that hostilities may end sooner as opposed to later.

Personally, I have no doubt that had Germany had the ability to do so, our East coast cities would have all been bombed to smithereens.

[Uncle Salty]

Your use of the word "jap" is pathetic, almost as pathetic as your condoning of their imprisonment.

[Fortyone]

Your use of the word "jap" is pathetic, almost as pathetic as your condoning of their imprisonment.


Stop with the PC BS. Jap was term used by almost everyone until the 80s in regular conversation.Its just a shortening of the nation's name. You have a problem with "Brit" too? Its not like calling them a Nigger.

[Libertarian_Guard]

you lose, she wins. freedom isn't conditional upon "what was happening on tuesday afternoon."

you are either for freedom, or you aren't.




In the aftermath of Pearl Harbor freedom(s) took a back seat to the war at hand. You can act preachy now about freedom, but back in the day you may have landed yourself in jail for giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

But in a way you are right, in this day and age, it is difficult to defend what now seem like inappropriate actions.

[Book]

I told her that America was so far to the military / political right that had the Japs been successful in overrunning much of this country, the interned Japs would have been put to death rather than be liberated, in much the same fashion as what the Germans did in Poland towards the end of the war. But that is another debate, our conversation just sort of opened a door and led me that way.



ADL jew propaganda payload hidden within this phony concocted thread story.

:oo-->

[Libertarian_Guard]

You shoot down your own understanding of internment with your last sentence. They were clearly unconstitutional and whats more, against the natural rights of man.

Shes right, you're not much of a libertarian if you think that just because were in a war, all bets should be off.


Hey, you're a potential enemy combatant and/or home grown terrorist, were gonna detain you in gitmo indefinitley because you might at some point sabotage something, somewhere, somehow. Were at war, so you have no rights, but I'm glad you understand why we have to do this.


Heimdhal

You've overstretched my point by drawing comparisons with today's 'enemy combatants' or what has taken place in gitmo with people taken from Afghanistan. None of this was mentioned in my post and my daughter and I are in agreement on this.

And about my last sentence, which you've made reference to, I've long understood that it isn't 1776 any more and the constitution has (unfortunately) been pretty well subverted, and even more so during times of war. Involuntary servitude anyone?

[Libertarian_Guard]

We both agree that it was wrong, but I understand it as necessary, because of the time and circumstances. She isn’t listening to my position about the American Military not truly understanding Jap troop strength at the time, and the possibility that if parts of this country were invaded, Americans of Jap decent would be placed before intelligence officers with the choice of reading maps and answering all questions or being shot. And at that point it would not matter in the least that they were loyal American citizens. They would have complied, and it would have cost additional American lives.
I didn’t even mention the fear of sabotage, but I sure she has heard that before.

Now she’s saying that I am not much of a libertarian if I condone the internment. While I’m arguing that in war time all assumptions of liberty are off, as the war machine takes precedence. Freedom & liberty and all are great ideals to live by, but they make a very weak case for themselves when a nation is professed to be fighting for its existence.

It is tough being something more than just a monetary libertarian and agreeing that the war machine trumps such principles and ethics, because at such times, if one stands too firmly against TPTB, it could cost you your life.

I was born a generation after WWII, but I know full well that I would not have protested against the internment. I would have supported the decision.

I told her that America was so far to the military / political right that had the Japs been successful in overrunning much of this country, the interned Japs would have been put to death rather than be liberated, in much the same fashion as what the Germans did in Poland towards the end of the war. But that is another debate, our conversation just sort of opened a door and led me that way. I could tell by the look on her face that I was way off topic and several steps ahead of her. So I backed off and went back to basics, and we remain in disagreement.

What was I missing here?

Or can you shoot down my understanding of the need for the internment camps, even though they were clearly unconstitutional?


1) you really are deluded
2) The whole story is just some made p bit the SPLC handed you to make the few here believe you are a true man of conscience

I'm going with 2
don't believe you at all



Once again you are projecting. You might be capable of such disingenuous behavior, so you call it out on me.

[Libertarian_Guard]

I suppose you agree with dropping the bombs on dresden, hiroshima and nagasaki too huh?


Well, yes.

I regret the loss of life, but it had to be done.


I've wondered about you in the past... no more. Welcome to my shiit list - a well-earned greeting!


Well ok, but can you offer up anything more specific about why you are opposing my statement?

[Book]

I suppose you agree with dropping the bombs on dresden, hiroshima and nagasaki too huh?


Well, yes.

I regret the loss of life, but it had to be done.


I've wondered about you in the past... no more. Welcome to my shiit list - a well-earned greeting!


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/archive/a/ac/20100209084119!Israeli_Passport.png

The intent of this whole thread is to prepare us for the next pogrom of jews in America. When all the Israeli dual-citizen traitors are rounded up they will remind us of the Japanese Camps during WWII. This whole thread is zio-psyops...lol.

:D

[Joe King]

you lose, she wins. freedom isn't conditional upon "what was happening on tuesday afternoon."

you are either for freedom, or you aren't.




In the aftermath of Pearl Harbor freedom(s) took a back seat to the war at hand. You can act preachy now about freedom, but back in the day you may have landed yourself in jail for giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

But in a way you are right, in this day and age, it is difficult to defend what now seem like inappropriate actions.
Their internment was a result of the zombies freaking out. It's the same reason they were able pass laws like the {un}patriot act after 911
i.e. something traumatic happens and the zombies let 'em do whatever in the name of security. Constitution be d@mned.

Buncha idiots, I say.

[Libertarian_Guard]

Up until recent decades, it was given that people would be loyal to their race. It was not some "raysist ideology", but rather recognized human nature. The word "racist" was not even part of the English language until the late thirties.
Human nature has not changed but indoctrination has.

If Americans were living in Japan during WW2, they would have been treated much worse.

What does all this prove? That multiculturalism doesn't work.


Thank you Hoarder.

I knew that eventually someone would connect more than three brain cells and say something half way intelligent.

In a way my post has similarities to the argument against our founding fathers for owning slaves. In today's day and age it is wrong. But back then it was standard practice. Try justifying slavery now (for the slave owners of that time period) and you'll get beat over the head.

[Fortyone]

you lose, she wins. freedom isn't conditional upon "what was happening on tuesday afternoon."

you are either for freedom, or you aren't.




In the aftermath of Pearl Harbor freedom(s) took a back seat to the war at hand. You can act preachy now about freedom, but back in the day you may have landed yourself in jail for giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

But in a way you are right, in this day and age, it is difficult to defend what now seem like inappropriate actions.
Their internment was a result of the zombies freaking out. It's the same reason they were able pass laws like the {un}patriot act after 911
i.e. something traumatic happens and the zombies let 'em do whatever in the name of security. Constitution be d@mned.

Buncha idiots, I say.


I guess the JAPS were Zombies as well, as they imprisoned all western civilians they found in their conquered territories. Including citizens of their allies.The Japanese didnt treat theirs so well by the way.

[Libertarian_Guard]

What does all this prove? That multiculturalism doesn't work.


Exactly right, every race is racially aware and outwardly prefers being around their own. Of course this natural situation is demonized for the White man so you are supposed to feel like their is something wrong with you if you would rather hang out with your own kind than a hodge podge.

As you also point out ideally in a homogenous society OP's question wouldn't even need to be asked.

Seeing as we are not at all homogenous it is also the biggest downfall to libertarian thinking, since in order for freedom to work you have to govern yourself, which not every race can do, and if you have laws governing some and not others it's called "racism" so then you have everyone living under the rule of the lowest common denominator.

It's like having children and your 18 year old has the same rules as the 5 year old because your 5 year old says it's "ageist" to discriminate against him based on age.


It seems like there could be two different persons posting under the name NordicBerserker here. I'm having trouble connecting up both personas, perhaps the first one wasn't being clear in his posts.

[Joe King]

you lose, she wins. freedom isn't conditional upon "what was happening on tuesday afternoon."

you are either for freedom, or you aren't.




In the aftermath of Pearl Harbor freedom(s) took a back seat to the war at hand. You can act preachy now about freedom, but back in the day you may have landed yourself in jail for giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

But in a way you are right, in this day and age, it is difficult to defend what now seem like inappropriate actions.
Their internment was a result of the zombies freaking out. It's the same reason they were able pass laws like the {un}patriot act after 911
i.e. something traumatic happens and the zombies let 'em do whatever in the name of security. Constitution be d@mned.

Buncha idiots, I say.


I guess the JAPS were Zombies as well, as they imprisoned all western civilians they found in their conquered territories. Including citizens of their allies.The Japanese didnt treat theirs so well by the way.
Oh yes. They most definitely were.
Zombies are blind followers of the perceived authority figures of the day, and will go wherever led.

[Libertarian_Guard]

You're arguing the ideal vs covering your butt. The ideal can be strong enough to succeed when people have the balls to stick to it. It's risky.

That being said... I don't have those kind of balls. I'm no Gandhi. Like most people I will end a threat to myself in the least risky way possible. It really depends how much faith you have in your beliefs, and how much tolerance you have for self-sacrifice.

You can turn your other cheek to a man and maybe that will appeal to his nature and force him to feel bad about what he has done. But you can't turn the other cheek to a rabid dog and expect anything to change. How would the Japanese have reacted? They had kamikaze pilots - I don't know how much of their human nature was left to appeal to.


Ash

Thank you for saying something logical without all the emotion that others can't help but bring into this subject.

I just can't help but imagine what the outcome might have been, had sympathizers organized protests (with growing numbers) outside of the detention camps. At best their skulls would have been cracked open, at worst they would have been many casualties among them before they permanently dispersed.

[Libertarian_Guard]

[quote=NordicBerserker ]



Sorry for the derail, LG.


Hoarder

I've always enjoyed your comments/ideas, even when we're in disagreement. Sometimes threads go off in a different direction. I see this as a good thing as new doors are opened up and things can be seen from different points of view.

[hoarder]

Oh yes. They most definitely were.
Zombies are blind followers of the perceived authority figures of the day, and will go wherever led.
When the Constitution was written, non-Whites were not considered as "men" in terms as having Constitutional rights. They could not vote. The Constitution was written to defend the rights of Americans, not foreigners brought here by rich Jewish industrialists for cheap labor and demographic warfare.
So maybe believers in falsely defined ideologies, like there is something Constitutional about "we are all the same" are zombies too.

Or maybe anyone who disagrees with me is a zombie.

[Libertarian_Guard]

Don't forget to tell her about the millions of Italian and German Americans that were interned by our government. The media and schools sure won't mention it, yet she'll be taught to feel guilty over the Jap internment.


Your numbers are way, way overinflated.

IMHO the Germans and Italians living in America were well integrated into our society, whereas the Japs were clearly more of an isolated subset (or closed culture, much as the Jews & Muslims are today) of American society. Also at the onset of WWII only the Japs attacked us. So only the Japs were slated for internment.

[Libertarian_Guard]

So as I understand you the American Government did this for their own good? Now that you explain it that way, I feel so much better about the whole thing.

dys


As I understand the issue, there was a consensus of fear among the American military & political establishment that Japanese Americans presented a threat that could not go unchecked. And the public overwhelmingly supported the decision of internment.

During war you can't expect any government to bend in support of a minority that could be seen as lending support to the opposition.

[Joe King]

Oh yes. They most definitely were.
Zombies are blind followers of the perceived authority figures of the day, and will go wherever led.
When the Constitution was written, non-Whites were not considered as "men" in terms as having Constitutional rights. They could not vote. The Constitution was written to defend the rights of Americans, not foreigners brought here by rich Jewish industrialists for cheap labor and demographic warfare.
So maybe believers in falsely defined ideologies, like there is something Constitutional about "we are all the same" are zombies too.

Or maybe anyone who disagrees with me is a zombie.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the people in question at the time were Americans who were supposed to have had those Rights. No?
It wasn't all based strictly upon their ethnicity?

As far as I'm concerned, the only thing that needs to be changed in the original Constitution would be to remove the reference to white, and men only.
After all, if you go back far enough, we're all brothers at some point. Even the women.

[Osaka]

Internment was wrong.

Nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki ended the war quickly and saved millions of lives.

[hoarder]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the people in question at the time were Americans who were supposed to have had those Rights. No?
The Constitution wasn't written by multiculturalists. If at some time, non-Whites were considered "men", it was a subversion of the Founders intent.



As far as I'm concerned, the only thing that needs to be changed in the original Constitution would be to remove the reference to white, and men only.
After all, if you go back far enough, we're all brothers at some point. Even the women.
Yes, you're right. We're all the same. we all have two arms and two legs so we might as well have one world government, one race, one religion so we can do away with all those pesky squabbles. ;)

[Libertarian_Guard]

Long before WWII, Japan was an isolationist society that barely had any contact with the outside world for many decades if not centuries.

During the 1800s, I believe, the US government decided to force the Japanese people into trading with the US.

Had the US government not interfered in the affairs of the Japanese it's likely that there wouldn't have been a Pacific Theater for the WWII and little to no chance for US involvement in WWII.

And if so, there would've likely been no reason to intern anyone or violate the US Constitution whatsoever.


Apparition

You've offered up a decent prequel for the events leading up to Dec 7 1941, yet you've avoided the issue of interning the Japs at the onset of the war. I can't disagree with anything you've said, but I would rather hear your opinion on the subject at hand.


Thanks

[Joe King]

So as I understand you the American Government did this for their own good? Now that you explain it that way, I feel so much better about the whole thing.

dys


As I understand the issue, there was a consensus of fear among the American military & political establishment that Japanese Americans presented a threat that could not go unchecked. And the public overwhelmingly supported the decision of internment.

During war you can't expect any government to bend in support of a minority that could be seen as lending support to the opposition.


Why does it have to be could be seen?
Why not just wait until they do? Then act.
i.e. same as any other "crime".

As far as this whole immigrants to America are somehow less worthy of their Rights is not really justifiable. Least not in my opinion. Not until they do something subversive. Same as would apply to us.

Over the years I've met and worked with people from many places in this World.
Places like Germany, Iran, Mexico, Columbia, Indonesia, Vietnam, India, Japan, Cuba, Pakistan, Poland and several others. One thing that most of them had in common was a desire to get the he!! away from their home countries govs, policy's, and general BS in order to try having a better life here.
As the years have passed, I've also noticed more and more comments about how they see that BS cropping up here.

Keep in mind that I'm referring to legal immigrants.

[Libertarian_Guard]

I suppose you agree with dropping the bombs on dresden, hiroshima and nagasaki too huh?


Well, yes.

I regret the loss of life, but it had to be done.


Hindsight is 20/20 - had Harry Truman known the Soviets would declare war on Japan (after f*cking around in Asia for 4 years with an uneasy state of peace) and overwhelm the IJA in a matter of days perhaps he would have held back.

Given the best information he appears to have had (FDR seems to have not told Harry much of anything) the decision to bomb Hiroshima and Kokura (Nagasaki was the alternate - clouds prevented Sweeney from his primary target) the decision to atom bomb Japan made sense -

The atrocities from Nanjing and the Philippines were well known to British and US "intelligence" - the Bushido warrior code simply made no sense to European/Western forces. The absurd ineptness of the US Navy at Okinawa scared the sh*t out of the planners as scenarios of thousands of US GIs and (literally) millions of Japanese militias were expected to die during an invasion of mainland Japan.

The use of Kamikazes (Coral Sea and onwards) reinforced this - the inscrutable fiendish yellow brain was not to be trusted. (BTW - the US clearly failed to learn the lesson, hence the stunning military/political failures of Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos).

The choice to bomb Japan was about preventing the loss of US lives. For the Japanese, I suspect the attitude was "tough sh*t" - (the issues around the Russo-Japan war, WWI betrayal, FDR's decision to cut off oil and scrap iron, the systematic starvation of Japan via sub warfare, and the horror of the firebombing a nation of wooden paper buildings are excluded here).

In truth, the bombing of a purely civilian (and previously unbombed) city of Hiroshima and the industrial city of Nagasaki were not needed - though I do not think Stalin ever hinted at his intent to move east - the campaign of the Soviet armor corps against the literally starving and obsolete Imperial Japanese Army was like a professional boxer beating a 3 year old - there was no chance of IJN even holding a rear guard.

As for the suspension of civil rights for west coast Japanese , this was another example of Baracks FDRs willingness to ignore that pesky Constitution. (Lincoln pulled the same basic crap during the war of Northern Aggression.) Japanese citizens were pretty much interned because they could be readily identified (and locals made huge profits stealing their property - yes, parallels to the National Socialists treatment of Jews in Germany exist.)

Had I been Truman, I'd have made the same decision - minimize US life loss, end the war as quickly as possible and avoid the invasion of Japan's mainland at all costs (I suspect Britain (and ANZAC/India) would have been less than enthusiastic about joining the US in the invasion.


Damn good post!

At the end of WWII the Japs still had a 7 million man army with the mentality of no surrender, no defeat. America had to set 'em ablaze. They would have fought the best gorilla war in history, with the cost being the loss of a generation of American men.

[Joe King]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the people in question at the time were Americans who were supposed to have had those Rights. No?
The Constitution wasn't written by multiculturalists. If at some time, non-Whites were considered "men", it was a subversion of the Founders intent.As I said. In that regard the Founders were wrong and should have went with Thomas Jeffersons ideas instead. Thereby sparing us from the abomination that the 14th Amendment is.



He has waged cruel war against human nature itself, violating it's most sacred rights of life and liberty in the persons of a distant people who never offended him, captivating & carrying them into slavery in another hemisphere, or to incur miserable death in their transportation thither. this piratical warfare, the opprobrium of infidel powers, is the warfare of the CHRISTIAN king of Great Britain. determined to keep open a market where MEN should be bought & sold, he has prostituted his negative for suppressing every legislative attempt to prohibit or to restrain this execrable commerce: and that this assemblage of horrors might want no fact of distinguished die, he is now exciting those very people to rise in arms among us, and to purchase that liberty of which he has deprived them by murdering the people on whom he also obtruded them; thus paying off former crimes committed against the liberties of one people, with crimes which he urges them to commit against the lives of another.




As far as I'm concerned, the only thing that needs to be changed in the original Constitution would be to remove the reference to white, and men only.
After all, if you go back far enough, we're all brothers at some point. Even the women.

Yes, you're right. We're all the same. we all have two arms and two legs so we might as well have one world government, one race, one religion so we can do away with all those pesky squabbles. ;)
No need to go to extremes.
As long as people want to live in peace and enjoy their Rights as Americans, what's the problem?

[hoarder]

No need to go to extremes.
As long as people want to live in peace and enjoy their Rights as Americans, what's the problem?
Extremes or planned natural progression? World government IS WELL UNDERWAY. Do nothing to stop it, nothing to even identify it, and soon the Rothschilds will rule the world with an iron fist. All the stated philosophies and ideologies will be meaningless then.

[Stop Making Cents]

Don't forget to tell her about the millions of Italian and German Americans that were interned by our government. The media and schools sure won't mention it, yet she'll be taught to feel guilty over the Jap internment.


Your numbers are way, way overinflated.

IMHO the Germans and Italians living in America were well integrated into our society, whereas the Japs were clearly more of an isolated subset (or closed culture, much as the Jews & Muslims are today) of American society. Also at the onset of WWII only the Japs attacked us. So only the Japs were slated for internment.


http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-italians-20100823,0,2551162.story?track=rss


In 1942, his mother was declared an "enemy alien," along with 600,000 other Italians and half a million Germans and Japanese who weren't U.S. citizens. More than once, men in suits searched the Maiorana house for guns, flashlights, cameras, shortwave radios — anything that could be used to signal the enemy.

Like 10,000 others up and down the California coast, the family was suddenly forced to uproot. At their new place in Salinas, they had to be home by 8 p.m. or face arrest. And when the government seized fishing boats for the war effort, Maiorana's dad, a naturalized U.S. citizen, saw his livelihood go down the drain.


Families like the Maioranas last week received a formal acknowledgement from California. A measure that swiftly made its way through the Legislature expresses the state's "deepest regrets" over the mistreatment of Italians and Italian Americans during World War II. Not nearly as severe or long-lasting as the internment of Japanese Americans, the wartime restrictions are still little-known throughout California, where they were the most heavily enforced.


No comparable measure has been passed by the state or federal government on behalf of more than 11,000 interned Germans, including some Jewish refugees fleeing Hitler.

It was close to a million. 600,000 Italians and they don't give an exact figure on the number of Germans interned. We can see here quite easily the standard order of importance that our Government places on race. The same government that claims to fight viciously to "end" racism. Japanese that were interned got Government reparations - cold hard cash for any mistreatment during the war. Italians, finally, after all these years get an apology from California. Germans on the other hand are completely ignored and despised and will never receive even a basic acknowledgment.

Racism is alive and well in America folks! The very people who claim to be fighting racism are the ones that are most active in keeping racism alive - except directed the opposite way that they want you to believe!

Next time someone tries to make you feel guilty for being white b/c Japanese got interred during the war, now you know you don't have to feel the least bit guilty until those same people start crying about the American Germans and Italians that suffered mistreatment at the hands of the U.S. Governemnt. This is a CLASSIC example of why liberals don't want people to learn about history - true history! This is why they want control over what is taught - so that they can present the anti-white, anti-Christian, anti-Western Civilization narrative to make whites hate themselves and destroy us.

Then again.... they would never do that to us... I guess I'm just paranoid :oo-->

[Joe King]

No need to go to extremes.
As long as people want to live in peace and enjoy their Rights as Americans, what's the problem?
Extremes or planned natural progression? World government IS WELL UNDERWAY. Do nothing to stop it, nothing to even identify it, and soon the Rothschilds will rule the world with an iron fist. All the stated philosophies and ideologies will be meaningless then.
I don't doubt that World gov is their plan, but it seems as though you're saying that if it came down to having to resist shoulder to shoulder with someone of a different skin color, that you'd just quit and go home?
i.e. why can't people of all ethnicity's resist them? Are you saying that some groups are just made to be slaves, or something?

[wildcard]

This thread is full of lies and propaganda.

[Fortyone]

Canada also rounded up people of Italian and German descent without even notification and shipped them off to camps in the Great White North. They even had large red circles painted on the back of the prisoners denim coats to help guards find their mark if they ran off. Japanese internees werent issued prison clothing. They didnt suffer compared to most other internees in other countries by any means. Californians and Hawaiians especially would have surely killed or vandalized them if they werent. the mentality of the World back then was strongly Nationalist, some of you here are drunk with the poison of Globalism, We arent all the same, nor will we ever be.

[philo beddoe]

Your use of the word "jap" is pathetic, almost as pathetic as your condoning of their imprisonment.
What's your idea salty?
The Japs should of been held hostage in return for American prisoners of war. If that did not work, they should of been repatriated to Japan at the end of the war. Heck, I'd even agree to compensating them for their property. But it is true, the Jap internment has been used to show how waaaaaycisss our gov was, not that it broke the constitution.

[Joe King]

Canada also rounded up people of Italian and German descent without even notification and shipped them off to camps in the Great White North. They even had large red circles painted on the back of the prisoners denim coats to help guards find their mark if they ran off. Japanese internees werent issued prison clothing. They didnt suffer compared to most other internees in other countries by any means. Californians and Hawaiians especially would have surely killed or vandalized them if they werent. the mentality of the World back then was strongly Nationalist, some of you here are drunk with the poison of Globalism, We arent all the same, nor will we ever be.
I just think it's wrong to round up anyone if they haven't actually done anything and can be shown to be living in peace. I don't care who's doing it. Americans, Canadians, Germans, Russians, Chinese, Martians, or whoever else it may be.
i.e. innocent until proven guilty...etc...etc...etc.

Also, please don't mistake my position as being that of a supporter of Globalism. Because IMHO those would be fighting words buddy. ;) :D ;D

[skid]

I suppose you agree with dropping the bombs on dresden, hiroshima and nagasaki too huh?


Well, yes.

I regret the loss of life, but it had to be done.


Hindsight is 20/20 - had Harry Truman known the Soviets would declare war on Japan (after f*cking around in Asia for 4 years with an uneasy state of peace) and overwhelm the IJA in a matter of days perhaps he would have held back.

Given the best information he appears to have had (FDR seems to have not told Harry much of anything) the decision to bomb Hiroshima and Kokura (Nagasaki was the alternate - clouds prevented Sweeney from his primary target) the decision to atom bomb Japan made sense -

The atrocities from Nanjing and the Philippines were well known to British and US "intelligence" - the Bushido warrior code simply made no sense to European/Western forces. The absurd ineptness of the US Navy at Okinawa scared the sh*t out of the planners as scenarios of thousands of US GIs and (literally) millions of Japanese militias were expected to die during an invasion of mainland Japan.

The use of Kamikazes (Coral Sea and onwards) reinforced this - the inscrutable fiendish yellow brain was not to be trusted. (BTW - the US clearly failed to learn the lesson, hence the stunning military/political failures of Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos).

The choice to bomb Japan was about preventing the loss of US lives. For the Japanese, I suspect the attitude was "tough sh*t" - (the issues around the Russo-Japan war, WWI betrayal, FDR's decision to cut off oil and scrap iron, the systematic starvation of Japan via sub warfare, and the horror of the firebombing a nation of wooden paper buildings are excluded here).

In truth, the bombing of a purely civilian (and previously unbombed) city of Hiroshima and the industrial city of Nagasaki were not needed - though I do not think Stalin ever hinted at his intent to move east - the campaign of the Soviet armor corps against the literally starving and obsolete Imperial Japanese Army was like a professional boxer beating a 3 year old - there was no chance of IJN even holding a rear guard.

As for the suspension of civil rights for west coast Japanese , this was another example of Baracks FDRs willingness to ignore that pesky Constitution. (Lincoln pulled the same basic crap during the war of Northern Aggression.) Japanese citizens were pretty much interned because they could be readily identified (and locals made huge profits stealing their property - yes, parallels to the National Socialists treatment of Jews in Germany exist.)

Had I been Truman, I'd have made the same decision - minimize US life loss, end the war as quickly as possible and avoid the invasion of Japan's mainland at all costs (I suspect Britain (and ANZAC/India) would have been less than enthusiastic about joining the US in the invasion.


Damn good post!

At the end of WWII the Japs still had a 7 million man army with the mentality of no surrender, no defeat. America had to set 'em ablaze. They would have fought the best gorilla war in history, with the cost being the loss of a generation of American men.



The Japanese made at least two attempts to surrender prior to Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The country was out of fuel, and starving. The main condition of surrender was maintaining the dignity of the emporer (I believe). However, the US wanted to test their new weapons and wanted unconditional surrender.

They didn't "have to set them ablaze"...

"Gorilla" warfare:) - Good one... :oo-->

[Fortyone]

Canada also rounded up people of Italian and German descent without even notification and shipped them off to camps in the Great White North. They even had large red circles painted on the back of the prisoners denim coats to help guards find their mark if they ran off. Japanese internees werent issued prison clothing. They didnt suffer compared to most other internees in other countries by any means. Californians and Hawaiians especially would have surely killed or vandalized them if they werent. the mentality of the World back then was strongly Nationalist, some of you here are drunk with the poison of Globalism, We arent all the same, nor will we ever be.
I just think it's wrong to round up anyone if they haven't actually done anything and can be shown to be living in peace. I don't care who's doing it. Americans, Canadians, Germans, Russians, Chinese, Martians, or whoever else it may be.
i.e. innocent until proven guilty...etc...etc...etc.

Also, please don't mistake my position as being that of a supporter of Globalism. Because IMHO those would be fighting words buddy. ;) :D ;D



Well its a sure Globalist position you have. Countries exist for a reason. The CONCENSUS of the US population in 1941 ,was they were in danger of being invaded by Japan. Japan's show of power at Pearl harbor had people terrified. This was not some 9/11 event , this was a fleet traveling thousands of miles, destroying the pride of the US Navy,with few losses, and the ability to travel further if need be, to project that power.If the USSR and the US would have went to war, you get bet your ass my 1st gen, Serbian Slavic dad would have been shipped off to a camp somewhere and I accept that. The US was founded by British,German and a few Dutch and French . All that came afterwards are simply guests until they assimilate into that culture.

[skid]

Canada also rounded up people of Italian and German descent without even notification and shipped them off to camps in the Great White North. They even had large red circles painted on the back of the prisoners denim coats to help guards find their mark if they ran off. Japanese internees werent issued prison clothing. They didnt suffer compared to most other internees in other countries by any means. Californians and Hawaiians especially would have surely killed or vandalized them if they werent. the mentality of the World back then was strongly Nationalist, some of you here are drunk with the poison of Globalism, We arent all the same, nor will we ever be.
I just think it's wrong to round up anyone if they haven't actually done anything and can be shown to be living in peace. I don't care who's doing it. Americans, Canadians, Germans, Russians, Chinese, Martians, or whoever else it may be.
i.e. innocent until proven guilty...etc...etc...etc.

Also, please don't mistake my position as being that of a supporter of Globalism. Because IMHO those would be fighting words buddy. ;) :D ;D



I don't agree with you often, but I'll support that statement..

[Fortyone]

I suppose you agree with dropping the bombs on dresden, hiroshima and nagasaki too huh?


Well, yes.

I regret the loss of life, but it had to be done.


Hindsight is 20/20 - had Harry Truman known the Soviets would declare war on Japan (after f*cking around in Asia for 4 years with an uneasy state of peace) and overwhelm the IJA in a matter of days perhaps he would have held back.

Given the best information he appears to have had (FDR seems to have not told Harry much of anything) the decision to bomb Hiroshima and Kokura (Nagasaki was the alternate - clouds prevented Sweeney from his primary target) the decision to atom bomb Japan made sense -

The atrocities from Nanjing and the Philippines were well known to British and US "intelligence" - the Bushido warrior code simply made no sense to European/Western forces. The absurd ineptness of the US Navy at Okinawa scared the sh*t out of the planners as scenarios of thousands of US GIs and (literally) millions of Japanese militias were expected to die during an invasion of mainland Japan.

The use of Kamikazes (Coral Sea and onwards) reinforced this - the inscrutable fiendish yellow brain was not to be trusted. (BTW - the US clearly failed to learn the lesson, hence the stunning military/political failures of Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos).

The choice to bomb Japan was about preventing the loss of US lives. For the Japanese, I suspect the attitude was "tough sh*t" - (the issues around the Russo-Japan war, WWI betrayal, FDR's decision to cut off oil and scrap iron, the systematic starvation of Japan via sub warfare, and the horror of the firebombing a nation of wooden paper buildings are excluded here).

In truth, the bombing of a purely civilian (and previously unbombed) city of Hiroshima and the industrial city of Nagasaki were not needed - though I do not think Stalin ever hinted at his intent to move east - the campaign of the Soviet armor corps against the literally starving and obsolete Imperial Japanese Army was like a professional boxer beating a 3 year old - there was no chance of IJN even holding a rear guard.

As for the suspension of civil rights for west coast Japanese , this was another example of Baracks FDRs willingness to ignore that pesky Constitution. (Lincoln pulled the same basic crap during the war of Northern Aggression.) Japanese citizens were pretty much interned because they could be readily identified (and locals made huge profits stealing their property - yes, parallels to the National Socialists treatment of Jews in Germany exist.)

Had I been Truman, I'd have made the same decision - minimize US life loss, end the war as quickly as possible and avoid the invasion of Japan's mainland at all costs (I suspect Britain (and ANZAC/India) would have been less than enthusiastic about joining the US in the invasion.


Damn good post!

At the end of WWII the Japs still had a 7 million man army with the mentality of no surrender, no defeat. America had to set 'em ablaze. They would have fought the best gorilla war in history, with the cost being the loss of a generation of American men.



The Japanese made at least two attempts to surrender prior to Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The country was out of fuel, and starving. The main condition of surrender was maintaining the dignity of the emporer (I believe). However, the US wanted to test their new weapons and wanted unconditional surrender.

They didn't "have to set them ablaze"...

"Gorilla" warfare:) - Good one... :oo-->



Two reasons the bomb was used, neither was a test purpose. One was to end the war, as people had lost interest in the War after US victories stacked in pacific and Germany's defeat.they quit buying bonds,They simply couldnt afford to keep fighting it. (Zionists at work here) Second reason was Stalin, he had grabbed all of Eastern Europe, IMHO this was the number 1 reason for the bomb,to put second thoughts in Stalin's design on a Soviet Europe.

[skid]

Canada also rounded up people of Italian and German descent without even notification and shipped them off to camps in the Great White North. They even had large red circles painted on the back of the prisoners denim coats to help guards find their mark if they ran off. Japanese internees werent issued prison clothing. They didnt suffer compared to most other internees in other countries by any means. Californians and Hawaiians especially would have surely killed or vandalized them if they werent. the mentality of the World back then was strongly Nationalist, some of you here are drunk with the poison of Globalism, We arent all the same, nor will we ever be.
I just think it's wrong to round up anyone if they haven't actually done anything and can be shown to be living in peace. I don't care who's doing it. Americans, Canadians, Germans, Russians, Chinese, Martians, or whoever else it may be.
i.e. innocent until proven guilty...etc...etc...etc.

Also, please don't mistake my position as being that of a supporter of Globalism. Because IMHO those would be fighting words buddy. ;) :D ;D



Well its a sure Globalist position you have. Countries exist for a reason. The CONCENSUS of the US population in 1941 ,was they were in danger of being invaded by Japan. Japan's show of power at Pearl harbor had people terrified. This was not some 9/11 event , this was a fleet traveling thousands of miles, destroying the pride of the US Navy,with few losses, and the ability to travel further if need be, to project that power.If the USSR and the US would have went to war, you get bet your ass my 1st gen, Serbian Slavic dad would have been shipped off to a camp somewhere and I accept that. The US was founded by British,German and a few Dutch and French . All that came afterwards are simply guests until they assimilate into that culture.


Whether you like it or not, the Americas are not homogenous countries like the rest of the world. They are globalist in nature.

[skid]

Two reasons the bomb was used, neither was a test purpose. One was to end the war, as people had lost interest in the War after US victories stacked in pacific and Germany's defeat.they quit buying bonds,They simply couldnt afford to keep fighting it. (Zionists at work here) Second reason was Stalin, he had grabbed all of Eastern Europe, IMHO this was the number 1 reason for the bomb,to put second thoughts in Stalin's design on a Soviet Europe.


As mentioned the war could have been over with few minor conditions. I'll agree with your second reason.

[Fortyone]

Canada also rounded up people of Italian and German descent without even notification and shipped them off to camps in the Great White North. They even had large red circles painted on the back of the prisoners denim coats to help guards find their mark if they ran off. Japanese internees werent issued prison clothing. They didnt suffer compared to most other internees in other countries by any means. Californians and Hawaiians especially would have surely killed or vandalized them if they werent. the mentality of the World back then was strongly Nationalist, some of you here are drunk with the poison of Globalism, We arent all the same, nor will we ever be.
I just think it's wrong to round up anyone if they haven't actually done anything and can be shown to be living in peace. I don't care who's doing it. Americans, Canadians, Germans, Russians, Chinese, Martians, or whoever else it may be.
i.e. innocent until proven guilty...etc...etc...etc.

Also, please don't mistake my position as being that of a supporter of Globalism. Because IMHO those would be fighting words buddy. ;) :D ;D



Well its a sure Globalist position you have. Countries exist for a reason. The CONCENSUS of the US population in 1941 ,was they were in danger of being invaded by Japan. Japan's show of power at Pearl harbor had people terrified. This was not some 9/11 event , this was a fleet traveling thousands of miles, destroying the pride of the US Navy,with few losses, and the ability to travel further if need be, to project that power.If the USSR and the US would have went to war, you get bet your ass my 1st gen, Serbian Slavic dad would have been shipped off to a camp somewhere and I accept that. The US was founded by British,German and a few Dutch and French . All that came afterwards are simply guests until they assimilate into that culture.


Whether you like it or not, the Americas are not homogenous countries like the rest of the world. They are globalist in nature.


Nope, when I grew up, it was a Western nation with a national pride and a culture, Zionist "diversity' bullshit has infected the minds of anyone younger than 40. Up until WWII most immigrants were of the European variety, not some Chadian immigrant ni gg er from France,who has a French passport.The cultural Bullshit of the 90s especially, has devolved it even further. One day you and other will wake up when the very minorities you are protecting destroy your churches and kill your family with sledgehammers.because thats what they do. stop allowing dregs from the shitholes in and start allowing intelligent European stock at an equivilent rate and youll have a country again.

[skid]

Canada also rounded up people of Italian and German descent without even notification and shipped them off to camps in the Great White North. They even had large red circles painted on the back of the prisoners denim coats to help guards find their mark if they ran off. Japanese internees werent issued prison clothing. They didnt suffer compared to most other internees in other countries by any means. Californians and Hawaiians especially would have surely killed or vandalized them if they werent. the mentality of the World back then was strongly Nationalist, some of you here are drunk with the poison of Globalism, We arent all the same, nor will we ever be.
I just think it's wrong to round up anyone if they haven't actually done anything and can be shown to be living in peace. I don't care who's doing it. Americans, Canadians, Germans, Russians, Chinese, Martians, or whoever else it may be.
i.e. innocent until proven guilty...etc...etc...etc.

Also, please don't mistake my position as being that of a supporter of Globalism. Because IMHO those would be fighting words buddy. ;) :D ;D



Well its a sure Globalist position you have. Countries exist for a reason. The CONCENSUS of the US population in 1941 ,was they were in danger of being invaded by Japan. Japan's show of power at Pearl harbor had people terrified. This was not some 9/11 event , this was a fleet traveling thousands of miles, destroying the pride of the US Navy,with few losses, and the ability to travel further if need be, to project that power.If the USSR and the US would have went to war, you get bet your ass my 1st gen, Serbian Slavic dad would have been shipped off to a camp somewhere and I accept that. The US was founded by British,German and a few Dutch and French . All that came afterwards are simply guests until they assimilate into that culture.


Whether you like it or not, the Americas are not homogenous countries like the rest of the world. They are globalist in nature.


Nope, when I grew up, it was a Western nation with a national pride and a culture, Zionist "diversity' bullsh*t has infected the minds of anyone younger than 40. Up until WWII most immigrants were of the European variety, not some Chadian immigrant ni gg er from France,who has a French passport.The cultural Bullsh*t of the 90s especially, has devolved it even further. One day you and other will wake up when the very minorities you are protecting destroy your churches and kill your family with sledgehammers.because thats what they do. stop allowing dregs from the sh*tholes in and start allowing intelligent European stock at an equivilent rate and youll have a country again.


I know and agree with what you are saying, but recognize this isn't (for example) aryan Germany and never was.

[Libertarian_Guard]

Long before WWII, Japan was an isolationist society that barely had any contact with the outside world for many decades if not centuries.

During the 1800s, I believe, the US government decided to force the Japanese people into trading with the US.

Had the US government not interfered in the affairs of the Japanese it's likely that there wouldn't have been a Pacific Theater for the WWII and little to no chance for US involvement in WWII.

And if so, there would've likely been no reason to intern anyone or violate the US Constitution whatsoever.


Perry's fleet in Japan was a foreign policy choice - a growing US economy needed new markets - China and Africa were sewn up by Colonial Europe, Latin America was already ours (and of limited value since their agrarian exports were of little use to an industrializing nation), Japan was a "freebie" - backward but organized, a great coaling station for the Navy - what could possibly go wrong?

Perhaps the US realized the mistake after the Russo-Japan conflict (the Russians got their butts kicked), the stupidity after WWI ensured a Shogunate would militarize Japan - and Korea paid the price (China, French Indochina, and Philippines would also).

At the time, it made sense I suppose- in hindsight, I dunno - though I am not convinced that the isolationism of the 1870s and 1920s and 30's were a valid alternate.






You (or anyone else) can connect the dots from U.S. gun boat diplomacy of Admiral perry and see Pearl Harbor as a repercussion. But all that was neither here nor there when the issue of the American Japs was raised. But actions do have consequences. Sometimes unintended consequences.

[Libertarian_Guard]

At any time, the internment of any Americans minus evidence of treason is most definitely wrong.

The bombings on the other hand is what happens in war.
IMHO, if war is being waged, anything of the enemys is fair game. I mean, it's not like it's a sporting competition where points are being kept in order to determine a winner.
It's kill your enemy before he kills you.

Is it something one should want to do, or feel proud of? No.
Neither should having to ram a bayonet through the heart of an enemy soldier in the heat of battle.

Rather, it's a simple matter of needing to break their will to fight before they break yours, and to do so in the most effective way possible so that hostilities may end sooner as opposed to later.

Personally, I have no doubt that had Germany had the ability to do so, our East coast cities would have all been bombed to smithereens.


Joe

I can't disagree with anything you've said here. The first sentence of my opening post pretty much aligns with yours. All wars suck, and the warring powers don't often take half measures in persuit of victory.

[Libertarian_Guard]

Your use of the word "jap" is pathetic, almost as pathetic as your condoning of their imprisonment.


Uncle Salty

I apologize for offending you with the slur of 'Jap.'

But I lived (or served) on a Marine base in Okinawa for a year, back in the late 1970's, and that is the only term Americans used. Actually they used others, but the others were far more derogatory than 'jap'........some old habits are hard to break, and not really worth the effort.

[hoarder]

I don't doubt that World gov is their plan, but it seems as though you're saying that if it came down to having to resist shoulder to shoulder with someone of a different skin color, that you'd just quit and go home?
i.e. why can't people of all ethnicity's resist them? Are you saying that some groups are just made to be slaves, or something?
The Japanese people are generally decent, honorable and intelligent. I'm all for waking up other races about who is trying to conquer the world. That is how I will help them. But racial togetherness is an ingredient of incremental world government.
In a mixed race world, the ruling tribe will infiltrate every sector and be immune to detection.

"We must realize that our party's most powerful weapon is racial tensions. By propounding into the consciousness of the dark races that for centuries they have been oppressed by whites, we can mold them to the program of the Communist Party. In America we will aim for subtle victory. While inflaming the Negro minority against the whites, we will endeavor to instill in the whites a guilt complex for their exploitation of the Negroes. We will aid the Negroes to rise in prominence in every walk of life, in the professions and in the world of sports and entertainment. With this prestige, the Negro will be able to intermarry with the whites and begin a process which will deliver America to our cause."
Israel Cohen, A Racial Program for the Twentieth Century, 1912. Also in the Congressional Record, Vol. 103, p. 8559, June 7, 1957

As late as January 12, 1952 the Canadian Intelligence Service provided the contents of a speech delivered by Rabbi Emanuel Rabinovich to a special meeting of the Emergency Council of European Rabbis in Budapest, Hungary:
"The goal for which we have striven so concertedly for three thousand years is at last within our reach, and because its fulfillment is so apparent, it behooves us to increase our efforts and our caution tenfold. I can safely promise you that before ten years have passed, our race will take its rightful place in the world, with every Jew a king and every Gentile a slave. We will openly reveal our identity with the races of Asia and Africa. I can state with assurance that the last generation of white children is now being born.
Our control Commissions will, in the interest of peace and wiping out of interracial tensions, forbid the whites to mate with white. The white woman must cohabit with members of the dark races, the white men with black women. Thus the white race will disappear, for mixing the dark with white means the end of the white man, and our most dangerous enemy will become only a memory. We shall embark upon an era of ten thousand years of peace and plenty, the Pax Judaica, and our race will rule undisputed over the world. Our superior intelligence will easily enable us to regain mastery over a world of dark people."

"The Jewish people as a whole will be its own Messiah. It will attain world domination by the dissolution of other races...and by the establishment of a world republic in which everywhere the Jews will exercise the privilege of citizenship. In this New World Order the Children of Israel...will furnish all the leaders without encountering opposition..." (Karl Marx in a letter to Baruch Levy, quoted in Review de Paris, June 1, 1928, p. 574)

[Libertarian_Guard]

I told her that America was so far to the military / political right that had the Japs been successful in overrunning much of this country, the interned Japs would have been put to death rather than be liberated, in much the same fashion as what the Germans did in Poland towards the end of the war. But that is another debate, our conversation just sort of opened a door and led me that way.



ADL jew propaganda payload hidden within this phony concocted thread story.

:oo-->


Now the echo chamber effect is in full force.

Philo makes a silly accusation, you repeat it, and WC thanks you!

You guys are a three man comedy team, like Larry, Moe and Curly.

You play the role of Larry, WC is Moe and Philo is Curly.

But you guys do crack me up. And for that I am greatfull. Laughter is good.

[Libertarian_Guard]

Your use of the word "jap" is pathetic, almost as pathetic as your condoning of their imprisonment.


Stop with the PC BS. Jap was term used by almost everyone until the 80s in regular conversation.Its just a shortening of the nation's name. You have a problem with "Brit" too? Its not like calling them a n-word.


I know one man, that even till this day can not say the word 'jap' without prefacing it with the word 'sneaky' first. To me it is slightly over the top, but I understand where he is comming from, and don't hold it as a strike against him.

[hoarder]

If Japanese or any other non- Europeans want to come and live in America, they should declare war and conquer it first, not come here under some Jew-contrived idea of multiculturalism. If they arrive here under the latter conditions, they should be prepared to be treated as foreigners who are not neccessarily expected to be loyal to our lines in the dirt.
It is an obvious fact of life that the three things that are most likely to make members of groups loyal to each other is Race, Religion and Nationality and such loyalty does not automatically change when one of those individuals crosses a border.

The creator of the following website is a Japanese gentleman that I wouldn't mind having lunch with, though:
http://www15.ocn.ne.jp/~oyakodon/newversion/yudayasensou.e.htm

[Libertarian_Guard]

I suppose you agree with dropping the bombs on dresden, hiroshima and nagasaki too huh?


Well, yes.

I regret the loss of life, but it had to be done.


I've wondered about you in the past... no more. Welcome to my shiit list - a well-earned greeting!


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/archive/a/ac/20100209084119!Israeli_Passport.png

The intent of this whole thread is to prepare us for the next pogrom of jews in America. When all the Israeli dual-citizen traitors are rounded up they will remind us of the Japanese Camps during WWII. This whole thread is zio-psyops...lol.

:D


Is that my other passport? I thought it was misplaced, I didn't know you had it. Please return it before I'm called back to serve my next stint in the IDF.

And thanks for the complement, I was unaware of the impression that my literary skills gave off. Imagine me writing some kind of psyops? I may have missed my calling in this life. Perhaps I can capitalize on this in my next life, or not, you see I've always wanted to be reincarnated as a bird. Because there are certain people I would like to fly over, so I can drop down my sentiments upon them. Should this come to pass, I’ll be thinking of you.

[Libertarian_Guard]

you lose, she wins. freedom isn't conditional upon "what was happening on tuesday afternoon."

you are either for freedom, or you aren't.




In the aftermath of Pearl Harbor freedom(s) took a back seat to the war at hand. You can act preachy now about freedom, but back in the day you may have landed yourself in jail for giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

But in a way you are right, in this day and age, it is difficult to defend what now seem like inappropriate actions.
Their internment was a result of the zombies freaking out. It's the same reason they were able pass laws like the {un}patriot act after 911
i.e. something traumatic happens and the zombies let 'em do whatever in the name of security. Constitution be d@mned.

Buncha idiots, I say.


Joe

You are correct.

Just don't ever get in the way of a bunch of idiots.

You may be older and wiser now, but did you ever swim with the pack in your earlier days?

[Libertarian_Guard]

Internment was wrong.

Nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki ended the war quickly and saved millions of lives.


I know the internment was wrong. And in a perfect world it would be an even worse travesty. But come war time, perfectly innocent people will get chewed up and spit out dead. War sucks. Yet, all in all, the interned japs rode out the war in relative safety.

[gunDriller]

i think we should be "interning" the Jewish neocon's and their supporters (Perle, Wolfowitz, that guy that runs DHS, Cheney, etc.) at Guantanamo, to investigate their involvement in and foreknowledge of 9-11.

and since they have argued that torture is useful in obtaining information from an "enemy combatant" ...

because FDR had foreknowledge of Pearl Harbor, the primary attack by Japan on the US (i think), i'm not sure that putting Japanese Americans in camps made us safer. that he did have foreknowledge came out in the memoirs of some of the generals of WW2.

[MAGNES]

I've wondered about you in the past... no more.


I think "libertarian" is a product of the MSM,
that is the main thing I find about his posts.

He hasn't looked deeper to out the control masters and the corruption.

On the OP and Japanese, how about we apply the same rules to "the tribe",
and intern them, we can leave most alone, but all the control masters need
to go to some hell hole like Guantanamo, they are knowingly torturing innocent
people therefore their fate should be worse after being found guilty.
The FBI isn't even allowed to arrest them when they are caught though.

[TheNocturnalEgyptian]

Something that was touched on and then glossed over earlier in this thread is the incredible economic success and property holdings of the Americans of Japanese descent in the 20's, 30's, and 40's. Those Americans of Japanese descent were absolutely dominating other asian cultures in terms of property holdings, especially farmland, in Calfifornia during that time. Many of them were stripped of their property via after the internment, and had to start over. Not everyone had their lawfully owned property returned to them. Could massive holdings of strategic farmland have anything to contribute to this discussion?

[Stop Making Cents]

Doesn't the classic Art of War call for conquering other nations by establishing colonies within those other nations and taking them over from within?

That's exactly what is being done to us

[Texan]

My take on the matter is, a sorry shithead (FDR) goaded Japan into a senseless war, and Japan foolishly took the bait. So we nuked, conservatively, 150,000 civilians to "save lives." Absolutely pathetic, a national embarrassment (among many). Nothing Orwellian about that. :sarc:

To Japan's credit, they've taken that cowardly act rather well. Except for the guy I met in Hiroshima who busted my balls for targeting civilians. I was caught off guard and didn't think it was a proper time to bring up Japan's behavior in China and elsewhere.

I wish the U.S. hadn't involved itself in Europe either. Both times.

Most military crime waves are completely asinine. But the government has so many indoctrinated dullards to do their bidding, that it will never stop. It's been that way since the dawn of time, and it's getting worse.

[The Great Ag]

I am late to this argument, but LG, you and your Daughter are both correct; it is simply a matter of perspective.

It is too easy to look back with hindsight and say the Japanese internment was wrong. Although, I agree with that it was wrong to intern them; they had broken no laws and were, just like everyone else, making a life for themselves. They deserved much better than they got. And Nocturnal Egyptian clearly stated many of those interned did NOT get their property back after the war. Many had to sue the gov't to get compensation.

With that said it is important to look at historical events with the zeitgeist (prevailing mood of the times) to understand why things were done the way they were. I think LG you understand why the gov't did what it did and your Daughter does not, only seeing the action and disregarding the cause.

In the 1930's Japan had imperial inclinations, similar to those of Great Britain, France and the United States. As an island nation it is perpetually importing goods for basic survival. At that time, Japanese believed themselves to be culturally superior to all other cultures. Japan looked westward and saw a backwards nation, China, rich in natural resources being squandered on an inferior culture. Japan saw its destiny to conquer and supply for itself raw materials. Japan invaded China in 1937. Japanese soldiers also committed war atrocities (gang rape, total annihilation of civilians and cruel experimentation). It took a couple of years for the news of the atrocities to spread throughout the USA.

When US citizens heard about the atrocities, they were angered. They were more angered when they discovered US corporations were selling to Japan the bulk of its oil and scrap metal needs. The United States was indirectly supporting the atrocities to make a profit. Because of the outrage, fdr (bum - he does not even deserve to have his initials capitalized) had to discourage the selling of war materiels to Japan.

Japan now having been given notice their supply stream was about to be cut had to find another resource, especially oil. War eats an amazing amount of resources especially oil. In fact, the US gov'ts current war efforts on terrorism consume the same amount of oil as Norway does collectively! Japan desperately needed another source and quickly. It saw the Indonesian oil fields as a source. Only one thing stood in the way, the US Navy.

Hence, the attacks on Pearl Harbor and the Philipines six days later. For the purposes of this thread, I am going to ignore the fact fdr was itching to get into the war and intentionally picked a fight with Japan to get the People's consent. Why else would all of the US Navy's aircraft carriers be out to sea on December 7, 1941? The aircraft carrier was the most decisive weapon in the War in the Pacific. Without it, the US could not have won. FACT!

Because of the attacks against Pearl Harbor and propaganda, the People on the West Coast greatly feared a Japanese invasion. It is unfortunate that people with Japanese ancestry look physically different. Because of this difference it is too easy to castigate a group of people. Taking the physical differences of Japanese ancestry with the war atrocities committed against China and the fear of invasion, it is easy to see how and why fdr gave executive order 9066 allowing for the internment of US citizens who had Japanese descent. Not saying it was right, but showing how it happened.

Legally, the gov't can rely upon "necessity." There are several legal maxims relating to necessity.


Necessity overrules the law.

Necessity makes that lawful which otherwise is not lawful.

The law of necessity is the law of the time; that is, of the instant, or present moment

That which is otherwise permitted, necessity allows, and necessity makes a privilege which supercedes the law.

Necessity has no law

In 1942, the gov't used necessity as an excuse to intern the Japanese and a few hundred of suspected US citizens of German descent. During WWII The US totally used the media (newspapers, radio and movies) to denigrate the Japanese. Go to youtube and see if you can find the Bugs Bunny cartoon where he takes on the Japanese army. The Japanese soldiers have "monkey feet" and Bugs Bunny has many, many derogatory nicknames for them. Now contrast this with cartoons regarding Hitler. Those cartoons make fun of Hitler but do not denigrate the German culture. Interesting, is it not?

So LG, to answer your question depends upon perspective. I think both of you are correct. She is accurate using hindsight and you are as well from a historical perspective. Personally, I totally disagree with the internment of any culture for the fact they look or belong to that culture, regardless of necessity.

The Great Ag

[hoarder]

When US citizens heard about the atrocities, they were angered.



Banker owned mass media hard at work fomenting war as usual. :(