Confiscation of Gold Will Cause Civil War

[FunnyMoney]

The confiscation of gold and silver will trigger a civil war in the United States, but the outcome will not be the same for most other nations, although they too will confiscate gold and silver. The confiscation of precious and rare metals will be nothing like anyone has ever seen before. In a strange twist of reality, holding and / or hiding these metals will land most in jail or worse. But at the same time, amazingly, gold and some other metals will be frequently used in important financial and even retail transactions, especially by the elite. Confused? Read on and you won't be.

Let's start with silver.

Private industrial and military industry demands on silver will exceed available supply by the end of the decade. If investment hoarding of silver continues to increase at the current pace, then this looming shortage will arrive by the middle of this decade. The mining supply of silver is facing huge problems. By the end of this decade much of the near surface and byproduct mining of silver will be exhausted. Deeper mines will be very expensive and there's not as much silver at those depths. The relative supply of silver, as compared to its demand, will fall over a cliff, long before other metals. As liquid energy prices rise and as the political dangers associated with mining rise, supply will be further impacted. And don't forget, these are finite materials; they are running out. Rare metals, platinum and palladium will be grouped into the silver confiscation category also.

Corrupted leaders around the globe (which is nearly all politicians and central planners at every corner of the planet) will decide that the masses must not be allowed to hold such important metals. Silver and the other rare white metals will be declared strategic by every nation. The holders of silver, including jewelry and even numismatics will be at first asked and then required to turn them in. A "fair" paper price will be given. But sellers will not be ensured as to the subsequent purchasing power of this paper as the months following these sales progress.

The holders of rare metals will be given a time-line. Once that expires, you will not be paid for your silver, it will simply be taken from you, by force if necessary.


Moving on to Gold.

The supply of gold is facing the same problems that other rare metals are. Peak gold was hit already 5 years ago and mining costs for the few large new gold mines under construction today already exceed $800 per ounce by many estimates. Finding new gold mines has become an explorer's nightmare. Not only are the finds now usually small and few, they are also of very low grade and in very remote and often very dangerous places. Gold too is running out, especially the easily mined deposits. In addition, many analysts expect more mine nationalizations in the future.

On the demand side, things are even more powerful for gold. The developing world and Asian peoples are flocking to gold. With fear of anything paper likely to increase as nations fall deeper and deeper into the red, gold as one of the few surviving safe-havens will soon become mainstream. I expect that in only a few more years, gold will become the number one desire among most workers and investors who have some extra income to spare.

Central, national and global powers, both private and public will also turn to gold. At first they will do so to protect what's left of their balance sheets. But not far after they will see the use of gold as another way to tax and regulate. Control over gold will be their only road to retain power, other than wars.

So gold will see similar things happen to it as the white and rare metals, but there will be some distinctions. A two-tier system will be put in place almost immediately with gold. The very well connected, the large global corporate, financial and private powers will be given permits to use gold for transactions and business among themselves and government entities. These permits will vary and restrict the use of gold in all ways. This will create a black-market trickle down effect where the use of gold will be seen far down financial and even retail links. A plethora of complex, regional, national and local regulations will make gold's use either legally OK or not, depending upon which government official happens to stumble across or be in charge of the particular business or the industry's oversight.

Expect 10, 7 and even 4 carat gold jewelry to eventually become the norm worldwide. Laws will dictate what people will be allowed to wear and this will make travel to other places both tricky and dangerous as those laws will vary.

Finally, gold bugs will have their long awaited gold standard. But it won't be the kind of standard they had hoped for - it will be a very bitter victory.

Any business, individual and even the mines themselves that don't have the proper permits will have their gold taken from them. Shall you live in interesting times, shall you live in dangerous times.



And now, civil war.

Around the world, revolution and civil war will not be an option. Most of the world will be faced with so many problems that they will simply accept new financial and monetary controls, restrictions and regulations. Hoarders of rare and valuable metals will be declared unpatriotic and most of the world will happily watch these once "lucky" investors have the tide turned on them. The entire planet will march toward total worldwide serfdom and in some cases slavery without even a whimper.

But in the North American mainland it will be quite different. At first, encouraged by mainstream media, the American public will despise the wealthy holders of metal and be fine with the new gold and strategic metal laws. But over the course of a year or two that will change as the general populace will slip into a standard of living similar to that of developing nations. The war economy, while still running strong, will not bring in enough riches nor enough trickle down to pacify the lower and middle classes. All the government tricks and delay mechanisms of the past will no longer work. Gold will be demanded globally and Asian / Middle Eastern nations will no longer prop up the West.

The people of North America will watch as their "slightly more wealthy" friends, family and neighbors have their investments taken from them by government regulators in an attempt to keep things together. There will be "Waco style events" on a weekly basis as gun owners and gold bugs refuse the new laws. Americans from nearly all walks of life will wonder how far this trend is going to go and become very stressed, regardless of metal holdings or not.

Finally, North America will dissolve into full on civil war. People will take sides. The choice between a government / military job and no job or an under-the-table one will be the important decision that many individuals, families and even communities at large will face. But for many, survival will be the concern. There will be a gold standard and the confiscation of gold both - at the same time and globally.

The civil war is not likely to go well for those who hope for true liberty and freedom - that is how powerful the global forces which control the world are. The empire will most likely fall and what emerges from the ashes will blow away in the wind. The rest of the world will decide that it was for the best. They will live to regret that decision.

[philo beddoe]

No linky?

[gunDriller]

they will use that old stinky bullsh*t reason, "for national security reasons".

[crazychicken]

Warning-warning

New drug dealer needed. Author seems to be smoking bad sh*t

CC




snip/snip
"mining costs for the few large new gold mines under construction today already exceed $800 per ounce"
snip/snip

[wildcard]

There isn't going to be any seizure or confiscation. They are already working on special drawing rights based on baskets of currencies or commodities. They don't need gold anymore.

[Ponce]

Like I posted before........."If you have gold or silver paper stock I would like to see you going to Peru to collect you money WTSHTF"........and don't count on those so called "Investors Advisers" to do anything for you.

"If you don't hold it, you don't own it"... Ponce

And also as I wrote before........"Eventually the only thing that you will be able to deal with will be a DEBIT-CREDIT CARD where everything that you earn will go there and everything that you spend will come from there".

The future is today is you know what to look for........"Get ready today for the way that you want to live tomorrow"... Ponce

[StackerKen]

And also as I wrote before........"Eventually the only thing that you will be able to deal with will be a DEBIT-CREDIT CARD where everything that you earn will go there and everything that you spend will come from there".


I have no Doubt that could happen...If and when it does...what will folks do with their PM stashes?

[wildcard]

And also as I wrote before........"Eventually the only thing that you will be able to deal with will be a DEBIT-CREDIT CARD where everything that you earn will go there and everything that you spend will come from there".


I have no Doubt that could happen...If and when it does...what will folks do with their PM stashes?


Cry? Because they were outsmarted yet again. TPTB aren't going to let little people prosper. Don't you get it at all yet?

[zap]

There will always be a blackmarket.

[Joe King]

And also as I wrote before........"Eventually the only thing that you will be able to deal with will be a DEBIT-CREDIT CARD where everything that you earn will go there and everything that you spend will come from there".


I have no Doubt that could happen...If and when it does...what will folks do with their PM stashes?
What else? Sell them for e-dollars.

[StackerKen]

I think long term storage food and solar panels(and batteries) may be a better investment right now than PMs

ETA and ammo of course

[crazychicken]

There will always be a market for Au, Ag, Pt, Pd and Rh.

Even if the "have nots" are forbidden to own PMs the "haves" will be trying to hoard more than the other "haves". Sort of like a "biggest d**k" contest. THE BIGGEST BADDEST "HAVE" ON THE BLOCK!

Creative marketing will always develop a market.

CC

[StackerKen]

And also as I wrote before........"Eventually the only thing that you will be able to deal with will be a DEBIT-CREDIT CARD where everything that you earn will go there and everything that you spend will come from there".


I have no Doubt that could happen...If and when it does...what will folks do with their PM stashes?


Cry? Because they were outsmarted yet again. TPTB aren't going to let little people prosper. Don't you get it at all yet?


Prosper is a relative term


Get what Wildcard?

[Ponce]

Ken? eventually they will tax you for your solar panels........

About no cash..........not only will pm will be the way to go but also now current coins.......remember my words.

[1970 silver art]

Seems like it would be much easier (and cheaper) to tax gold and silver to oblivion than it would be to physically take it away from the citizens. Currently, I do not think that people are going to give up their gold and silver when the gov't tells them to do so. Just my opinion.

[StackerKen]

Ken? eventually they will tax you for your solar panels........

About no cash..........not only will pm will be the way to go but also now current coins.......remember my words.


Ponce? That is why I like me some Mercury Dimes ;D

But I won't be spending those on TP from you...I gots my own TP ;D

[zap]

Hey 1970 silver,

I thanked you once, not twice?

[Joe King]

Seems like it would be much easier (and cheaper) to tax gold and silver to oblivion than it would be to physically take it away from the citizens. Currently, I do not think that people are going to give up their gold and silver when the gov't tells them to do so. Just my opinion.


If the penalty is listed at $50,000 fine and 20 years in the fed pen if caught with bullion, I think a lot of people would sell for whatever was being offered. Even if they didn't particularly like the idea.
Especially if once a certain date passed you could no longer sell it. Better to get something than possibly less than nothing.

It be like in 1933 again.
You'd need to be able to hold it for about 40 years before it might be legally sold again. In other words, too much time will have passed for the one who hoarded it to be able to profit from it.


However, IMO a gold/silver confiscation won't happen. What'll happen instead will be a run for cash as people try to cash-out in a vain quest to maintain their "on paper" wealth they currently believe themselves to have.
i.e. cash will be the "new" gold this time around and as the run progresses and banks are strapped for cash that doesn't physically exist, it'll be used as an excuse to switch to a digital dollar system. Because that will be the only way for everyone to actually get theirs.
...and if you're holding cash, you'll have to turn it in for digital before a certain date, after which it'll be declared to be no good anymore.

Just about the only thing missing is your digital "wallet".

[1970 silver art]

Hey 1970 silver,

I thanked you once, not twice?


That has happened to me too when I thanked madfranks twice for a post that he made on another thread. I do not know how I did that but I meant to thank that post once. I would not worry about it.

I really believe that the gov't will just end up taxing gold and silver 100% instead of physical confiscation. Physical confiscation would require lots of manpower and building jails for "violators". That can be expensive and physical confiscation would probably would not be very effective in getting the gold and silver from the U.S. population. It would not be worth it for the gov't to do physical confiscation.

Physical confiscation = Very high risk & very low reward.

100% taxation = Very high reward & very low risk.

[Joe King]

Hey 1970 silver,

I thanked you once, not twice?
Looks like you "zapped" him good. :D

But I've seen that happen before, too. I think it's when the forum has a slow moment and you maybe you got two clicks in on it, or something.

I've also seen where clicking the +K for someone twice in a row quickly added 2 points instead of one.
That happened at a moment when the forum was extra slow.

[Joe King]

Hey 1970 silver,

I thanked you once, not twice?


That has happened to me too when I thanked madfranks twice for a post that he made on another thread. I do not know how I did that but I meant to thank that post once. I would not worry about it.

I really believe that the gov't will just end up taxing gold and silver 100% instead of physical confiscation. Physical confiscation would require lots of manpower and building jails for "violators". That can be expensive and physical confiscation would probably would not be very effective in getting the gold and silver from the U.S. population. It would not be worth it for the gov't to do physical confiscation.

Physical confiscation = Very high risk & very low reward.

100% taxation = Very high reward & very low risk.


In my book, 100% taxation would be the same as confiscation.

[1970 silver art]

Seems like it would be much easier (and cheaper) to tax gold and silver to oblivion than it would be to physically take it away from the citizens. Currently, I do not think that people are going to give up their gold and silver when the gov't tells them to do so. Just my opinion.


If the penalty is listed at $50,000 fine and 20 years in the fed pen if caught with bullion, I think a lot of people would sell for whatever was being offered. Even if they didn't particularly like the idea.
Especially if once a certain date passed you could no longer sell it. Better to get something than possibly less than nothing.

It be like in 1933 again.
You'd need to be able to hold it for about 40 years before it might be legally sold again. In other words, too much time will have passed for the one who hoarded it to be able to profit from it.


However, IMO a gold/silver confiscation won't happen. What'll happen instead will be a run for cash as people try to cash-out in a vain quest to maintain their "on paper" wealth they currently believe themselves to have.
i.e. cash will be the "new" gold this time around and as the run progresses and banks are strapped for cash that doesn't physically exist, it'll be used as an excuse to switch to a digital dollar system. Because that will be the only way for everyone to actually get theirs.
...and if you're holding cash, you'll have to turn it in for digital before a certain date, after which it'll be declared to be no good anymore.

Just about the only thing missing is your digital "wallet".



That is a good point there about the penalty and prison time but if the anti-gov't sentiment grows and gets bigger, then a lot of people will probably not care and will take that risk. Taxing gold and silver 100% when selling will, in my opinion, be less expensive and not as "risky" (i.e. less violence) as physical confiscation.

[zap]

Seems like it would be much easier (and cheaper) to tax gold and silver to oblivion than it would be to physically take it away from the citizens. Currently, I do not think that people are going to give up their gold and silver when the gov't tells them to do so. Just my opinion.


If the penalty is listed at $50,000 fine and 20 years in the fed pen if caught with bullion, I think a lot of people would sell for whatever was being offered. Even if they didn't particularly like the idea.
Especially if once a certain date passed you could no longer sell it. Better to get something than possibly less than nothing.

It be like in 1933 again.
You'd need to be able to hold it for about 40 years before it might be legally sold again. In other words, too much time will have passed for the one who hoarded it to be able to profit from it.


However, IMO a gold/silver confiscation won't happen. What'll happen instead will be a run for cash as people try to cash-out in a vain quest to maintain their "on paper" wealth they currently believe themselves to have.
i.e. cash will be the "new" gold this time around and as the run progresses and banks are strapped for cash that doesn't physically exist, it'll be used as an excuse to switch to a digital dollar system. Because that will be the only way for everyone to actually get theirs.
...and if you're holding cash, you'll have to turn it in for digital before a certain date, after which it'll be declared to be no good anymore.

Just about the only thing missing is your digital "wallet".



If it came to that and I ever bought any gold or silver, I would just hang on to it, and pass it down to my child, then the child could profit from it. You should never buy gold and silver if you don't have enough frn's to live on, the stash should be just that, a stash.

[1970 silver art]

Hey 1970 silver,

I thanked you once, not twice?


That has happened to me too when I thanked madfranks twice for a post that he made on another thread. I do not know how I did that but I meant to thank that post once. I would not worry about it.

I really believe that the gov't will just end up taxing gold and silver 100% instead of physical confiscation. Physical confiscation would require lots of manpower and building jails for "violators". That can be expensive and physical confiscation would probably would not be very effective in getting the gold and silver from the U.S. population. It would not be worth it for the gov't to do physical confiscation.

Physical confiscation = Very high risk & very low reward.

100% taxation = Very high reward & very low risk.


In my book, 100% taxation would be the same as confiscation.


True but one method is the hard way and the other is the easy way. Physical confiscation is the "hard way" and 100% taxation is the "easy way". Taxing it at 100% when selling is the easiest way for the gov't to "confiscate" gold and silver from the U.S. citizens in my opinion. Taxing gold and silver at 100% would more than likely mean that the gov't would just simply hire more IRS agents to "enforce" the 100% tax on gold and silver.

[Half Sense]

I don't understand. If it were taxed at 100%, wouldn't the tax be paid in worthless FRNs? A tax would just double the price of gold overnight.

I just don't see confiscation happening. For one thing, if the gov't wanted gold, they could just BUY it with printed money.

Also, before confiscation would ever be considered, the COMEX and London PM markets will have to collapse, right? So, the spot price of PMs would already be stratospheric. I don't know about you guys, but if silver is worth hundreds per oz, I'm gonna sell mine and buy a nice chunk of land or a houseboat or something. At that price, they can have it.

[1970 silver art]

I don't understand. If it were taxed at 100%, wouldn't the tax be paid in worthless FRNs? A tax would just double the price of gold overnight.

I just don't see confiscation happening. For one thing, if the gov't wanted gold, they could just BUY it with printed money.

Also, before confiscation would ever be considered, the COMEX and London PM markets will have to collapse, right? So, the spot price of PMs would already be stratospheric. I don't know about you guys, but if silver is worth hundreds per oz, I'm gonna sell mine and buy a nice chunk of land or a houseboat or something. At that price, they can have it.


I do not think that physical confiscation of gold and silver will happen. Taxing it ($600 = 1099 form?) is a more likely scenario IMO. I would think that the gov't could just buy it with printed money. They seem to buy everything else with printed money anyway.

As for buying a chunk of land or something else when silver is worth $100's an oz..............That still might be hard to do if everything else from houses to other consumer goods also went up in price. I am not very sure how that would work out.

EDIT: There could be a new fiat currency that could replace the FRN if/when the gov't taxes gold and silver at 100%. I am just guessing on that and I could be very wrong on that.

[Ponce]

Zap? but sometimes you get lucky.......in 1972 I bought my silver all at once $1.45 +.50 = $1.95 per oz.... in 1980 sold it for $43.65 per oz and made almost 3/4 million bucks........I don't think that the US government will go after our silver, maybe gold but not silver.

When silver goes to $100.00 this time I will be able to buy my own island, the name will be "Silver Island" ;D

[Neuro]

Seems like an article written with the purpose o discouraging private people to hold PM's. I am not saying that it is impossible to happen but it may be just a PM hit piece to help shake out some weak hands...

[chad]

nobody owns any gold or silver, so why would they care about it and start a civil war?

[StackerKen]

If it came to that and I ever bought any gold or silver, I would just hang on to it, and pass it down to my child, then the child could profit from it. You should never buy gold and silver if you don't have enough frn's to live on, the stash should be just that, a stash.


that's good advice....I bought silver and gold and now I am having to sell it to pay bills
Luckily it worked out ok for me.(small profit)

Im not sure if I will be buying more when I get back to work....I think there are other more important things to buy

[Neuro]

Zap? but sometimes you get lucky.......in 1972 I bought my silver all at once $1.45 +.50 = $1.95 per oz.... in 1980 sold it for $43.65 per oz and made almost 3/4 million bucks........I don't think that the US government will go after our silver, maybe gold but not silver.

When silver goes to $100.00 this time I will be able to buy my own island, the name will be "Silver Island" ;D
Wow in 72 the premium was more than 1/3 of spot price... I guess competition was not that great then among dealers?

[Joe King]

Physical confiscation = Very high risk & very low reward.

100% taxation = Very high reward & very low risk.


In my book, 100% taxation would be the same as confiscation.


True but one method is the hard way and the other is the easy way. Physical confiscation is the "hard way" and 100% taxation is the "easy way". Taxing it at 100% when selling is the easiest way for the gov't to "confiscate" gold and silver from the U.S. citizens in my opinion. Taxing gold and silver at 100% would more than likely mean that the gov't would just simply hire more IRS agents to "enforce" the 100% tax on gold and silver.

What's the point of selling if it's taxed 100%?
i.e. everyone would just hold on to it and there would be no gain for gov.

The draconian penalty route would be the way they'd go.
i.e. people would bring it to them willingly, and if they didn't, just keep upping the penaltys until they did. With a few examples made of a handful of people along the way to aid in willful compliance.

[zap]

Zap? but sometimes you get lucky.......in 1972 I bought my silver all at once $1.45 +.50 = $1.95 per oz.... in 1980 sold it for $43.65 per oz and made almost 3/4 million bucks........I don't think that the US government will go after our silver, maybe gold but not silver.

When silver goes to $100.00 this time I will be able to buy my own island, the name will be "Silver Island" ;D


Ponce? Do you actually think silver will ever get to 100? Hell it can't even hit 20. ;D

[Joe King]

nobody owns any gold or silver, so why would they care about it and start a civil war?
Exactly. Which makes it even easier to "demonize" the "bugs" in the eyes of everyone else.
i.e. "it's those greedy people holding PM's that could help save your way of life, that are the problem" <--- gov PSA


But as I said, I think it'll be paper "money" next time around instead of gold.

[StackerKen]

Zap? but sometimes you get lucky.......in 1972 I bought my silver all at once $1.45 +.50 = $1.95 per oz.... in 1980 sold it for $43.65 per oz and made almost 3/4 million bucks........I don't think that the US government will go after our silver, maybe gold but not silver.

When silver goes to $100.00 this time I will be able to buy my own island, the name will be "Silver Island" ;D


Ponce? What made you decide to sell in that little 4 month window?

[crazychicken]

I understand there is an operation in Curasol that will turn your gold into particles so small that it can be mixed in dirt and is not identifiable visually or with a metal detector. And recoverable in an hour and a half. No black boxes or smoke screens. Right in front of you. You take your gold to them, they do their thing, and you leave with you Au. Never leaves your sight.

They get a tolling fee.

A friend of mine from Canada took 5 ounces and had it done. Took it back to Canada, sent it to a refiner to have it checked. The metal was essentially right on the mark.

He is going to do a big bunch next trip.

FWIW!

CC

[1970 silver art]

Physical confiscation = Very high risk & very low reward.

100% taxation = Very high reward & very low risk.


In my book, 100% taxation would be the same as confiscation.


True but one method is the hard way and the other is the easy way. Physical confiscation is the "hard way" and 100% taxation is the "easy way". Taxing it at 100% when selling is the easiest way for the gov't to "confiscate" gold and silver from the U.S. citizens in my opinion. Taxing gold and silver at 100% would more than likely mean that the gov't would just simply hire more IRS agents to "enforce" the 100% tax on gold and silver.

What's the point of selling if it's taxed 100%?
i.e. everyone would just hold on to it and there would be no gain for gov.

The draconian penalty route would be the way they'd go.
i.e. people would bring it to them willingly, and if they didn't, just keep upping the penaltys until they did. With a few examples made of a handful of people along the way to aid in willful compliance.


Fair enough. I will back off of the 100% taxation of gold and silver but they will end up taxing it at a very high taxation rate. I do not know what that rate would be if/when they tax gold and silver.

The draconian penalty would work if people are afraid of the gov't but if the anti-gov't sentiment movement gets worse, then more people will not care about the draconian penalty and will take that risk to either hide gold or to do some other ways to prevent the gov't from confiscating it. If some people are young enough to have gold and silver in their possession, then they will just hold on to it until the time that the gov't lifts the ban on gold and silver.

EDIT: It is hard to say what will happen. With gov't, anything is possible. Nobody knows what will happen. You might be right with your penalty and prison time scenario. Then again I could be right with my taxation of gold and silver. Nobody knows what will happen. I am really just guessing on what could happen and I could totally wrong on everything. These are just options that the gov't has at their disposal to pry the gold and silver from the U.S. citizens' hands.

[zap]

Did they confiscate gold/silver jewelry back then? How bout just buying gold/silver chains, or having your stash turned into jewelry.

[Ponce]

In 72 I didn't buy my silver from a dealer but from a refinery and they were in 100 oz bars....I could not find a dealer with that much silver and I dind't want to leave my cash with them........it took two trips to take the silver back home in my Toy Corolla.......around 17,000 oz.

And yes, silver will hit $100.00 and more because there is no "real" money that can compete with silver or gold and in what is to come people will be very cautious, this morning Agnut read me an article where in India they are having a shortage of silver because no one is selling, only buying.........the pawn shop in my tiny town is also only buying.....

[gunDriller]

In 72 I didn't buy my silver from a dealer but from a refinery and they were in 100 oz bars....I could not find a dealer with that much silver and I dind't want to leave my cash with them........it took two trips to take the silver back home in my Toy Corolla.......around 17,000 oz.

is that all ? ;D Jeez you're slacking.

just kidding, sounds like you worked hard.

but, my God - 17,000 ounces - that's over 1000 pounds.

[Twisted Titan]

There will always be a blackmarket.


http://http://AND I WILL TAKE MY RIGHTFUL ON MY SILVER THRONE

ONE OF THE HIGH LORDS OF THE UNDERGROUND.


AND I WILL TAKE MY RIGHTFUL ON MY SILVER THRONE

ONE OF THE HIGH LORDS OF THE UNDERGROUND.

[FunnyMoney]

No linky?


Guess you don't remember from the GIM1 days, I must have written a couple of dozen essays over there. It was just my way of giving back after all the "alternative" knowledge I found from there, if you can call it that... insight into tptb.

I'm surprised you never read any of them at GIM1, would provide the links but, well.... never mind.

[steyr_m]

I think in a couple hundred years when the zionist/rothchild empire is done, people with metal detectors will be finding lots of buried, horded gold and silver that is dated pre-2011 or 2012.

No empires last forever.

[FunnyMoney]

Seems like it would be much easier (and cheaper) to tax gold and silver to oblivion than it would be to physically take it away from the citizens. Currently, I do not think that people are going to give up their gold and silver when the gov't tells them to do so. Just my opinion.





The details of how the regulations, taxations and confiscations play out on the ground and in the lawmakers' rule book is not explored in the essay. It will depend on where and when you are talking about. The gold standard was broken gradually and slowly over nearly a century. The silver standard broke in an entirely different way and over an even longer period of time.

The standards will return as much changed animals. Much more to the liking of TPTB. Look at what China is doing regarding silver (currently the number three producer), gold (#1 producer and huge hoarder), and rare metals (monopoly and just recently now using that monopoly and hoarding power to their advantage. The standard will be forced upon the globe, and to remain in firm control over finance, TPTB will implement a taxation, regulation, confiscation combo strategy that rolls out over time.

[mamboni]

The OP reads more like fantasy fiction than a reasoned analysis and extrapolation of current events. No one can say how or when the economic crisis will play out in the future. However, when a government's very survival is threatened, it will act as a wild animal and there is no limit to how far it will go in order to survive, the laws be damned. It is inconceivable for people in power and a sitting government to imagine a future where they are not in power and not the status quo. In theory, the poeple can dissolve the hired management called government and establish a new one. In practice, the hired management will do anything to stay in power, even if it means looting or persecuting the employer. As for gold and silver, if a dying government thinks these will promulgate its continued existence, then woe be he who is known to possess them. For government will grind him dust in the name of 'national security' and steal that gold and silver.

[Ponce]

Little bit off topic.......just saw something on Utube and something that was said stuck in my mind.........
"You know the future if you created the future".......they know it and we follow baaaaaaa baaaaaa baaaa

[Sparky]

Zap? but sometimes you get lucky.......in 1972 I bought my silver all at once $1.45 +.50 = $1.95 per oz.... in 1980 sold it for $43.65 per oz and made almost 3/4 million bucks........I don't think that the US government will go after our silver, maybe gold but not silver.

When silver goes to $100.00 this time I will be able to buy my own island, the name will be "Silver Island" ;D


Ponce? What made you decide to sell in that little 4 month window?


This is a great question. Very few people got paid more than $35/ounce, even as the spot price approached $50?

Ponce? Are you blessed?

[Sparky]

The notion of confiscation is absurd. During the original confiscation, the price of gold was "set". So they could confiscate it, then set the new price, because we were on a gold standard.

Today, the price is set by market demand. If they confiscate private gold, where will the private demand come to support the price? Do you think gold will remain above $1000 if it becomes illegal to own? Do you really think there will be black market demand that exceeds the current demand from tens of millions of people who want to own it now on the legal exchange?

Furthermore, why would they want to perform the act of confiscation now, which basically screams "The fiat currency that we can now print without limit is worthless!!" ?

Think it through, people.

[Saul Mine]

"Confiscation" is a sloppy term used by citizens. The government is not going to send soldiers to physically rob you. I mean probably not. One reason is that it costs more to send the soldiers than your stash is worth. Another is that the goods would simply be stolen by the soldiers and the government would get nothing. The government might tell the soldiers to sack and pillage in lieu of payment of wages, but that's it. When we say "confiscate" it means the government writes an order. That order goes into a list of warrants cross indexed to a list of known PM holders. When a cop stops you for any reason and checks for warrants, and your name is on the owners list, then he has a warrant to arrest you. Since a list of owners is somewhat unlikely, they probably would ban the exchange of metals except through licensed brokers. Then it would be added to the duties of existing drug enforcement agencies. Either way it would certainly prompt many to wage war against their rulers. And with things that bad, the guerrillas might even have a fair chance to win it.

One thing I am sure of: the bible carefully describes the final days, and the USA is clearly not present.

[Joe King]

EDIT: It is hard to say what will happen. With gov't, anything is possible. Nobody knows what will happen. You might be right with your penalty and prison time scenario. Then again I could be right with my taxation of gold and silver. Nobody knows what will happen. I am really just guessing on what could happen and I could totally wrong on everything. These are just options that the gov't has at their disposal to pry the gold and silver from the U.S. citizens' hands.
Very true. We're all just hypothesizing here.
The puzzle is being assembled and we're trying to figure out exactly what it will be. Although we do have a good idea of what it's looking like, the final picture is yet to be seen.

It's kinda like a real-life game of Wheel of Fortune! and trying to solve the puzzle.

[Book]

http://weblogs.wpix.com/news/local/morningnews/blogs/american-idol-judges.jpg

"Revolution" and "Civil War" in America.

:ROFL:

http://jasonalba.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/slob.jpg

[Saul Mine]

http://weblogs.wpix.com/news/local/morningnews/blogs/american-idol-judges.jpg

"Revolution" and "Civil War" in America.

:ROFL:

http://jasonalba.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/slob.jpg


Uh, that's a tough argument to refute!

[FunnyMoney]

There isn't going to be any seizure or confiscation. They are already working on special drawing rights based on baskets of currencies or commodities. They don't need gold anymore.


You can only kick the can down the road so far. At some point they will be forced to use gold and they will BE GLAD about it.

The paper thefts will continue, but a time will come when the devaluations are so great that the only way to steal the rest of the middle and lower class money (and anyone else with paper based assets) will be to simply let it be known that it's not backed by anything and not worth the paper it's printed on.

Yes, they will probably try to reset the system using global paper at some point later down the road, but first they will destroy anyone not holding what they're holding. Do you happen to know how much in gold and rare / precious metals China is holding? I bet you don't. I bet you especially don't know how much the elites that run China, and TPTB that run the rest of the world are holding. A turning of the tide produces winners: the ones who saw it coming and helped it happen.

All it will take is a few defaults and a few forced devaluations. Rules and regulations are a big part of this picture (read the OP again with a critical eye on those parts). You will see a gold standard and a gold confiscation all at the same time.

[Silver Rocket Bitches!]

This article feels sensationalist and over the top. I don't see it going down like this but the author makes a good point, eventually the lack of above ground silver will be intolerable for the war machine which needs more and more silver to keep up with technology.

Nationalizing the COMEX warehouses would be much more politically palatable, granted that they have the necessary silver in their inventory.

[Steal]

Ken? eventually they will tax you for your solar panels........

About no cash..........not only will pm will be the way to go but also now current coins.......remember my words.

The writing has been on the walls form many years.....

(Ezekiel 7:19) 19　"'Into the streets they will throw their very silver, and an abhorrent thing their own gold will become. Neither their silver nor their gold will be able to deliver them in the day of Jehovah's fury. Their souls they will not satisfy, and their intestines they will not fill, for it has become a stumbling block causing their error.

(Revelation 13:16-17) 16　And it puts under compulsion all persons, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the slaves, that they should give these a mark in their right hand or upon their forehead, 17　and that nobody might be able to buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name of the wild beast or the number of its name.

[FunnyMoney]

...I just don't see confiscation happening. For one thing, if the gov't wanted gold, they could just BUY it with printed money.

Also, before confiscation would ever be considered, the COMEX and London PM markets will have to collapse, right? So, the spot price of PMs would already be stratospheric. I don't know about you guys, but if silver is worth hundreds per oz, I'm gonna sell mine and buy a nice chunk of land or a houseboat or something. At that price, they can have it.


I'm not sure if you fully thought through all the angles of the OP. For gold it will be an instant 2-tier or more likely multi-tier system. Taxes, regulations, permits to trade, buy and sell and even for jewelry will be put in place. It won't work well, but does the war on drugs work well? Does anything the govts do work well?

TPTB have a counter-productive system in place and they like it that way. As said right in the first part of the essay, it will be a confiscation system like no other ever seen in history. It will be a gold standard and a confiscation system all at the same time and it will be global, although it will have different rules and be enforced differently in different places. This will cause great suffering and inequalities to exist. TPTB will be quite pleased.

For silver, things may play out very differently as it may be declared strategic and what the rules look like will probably depend upon the nature of the war economies around the globe when that day comes.

[Half Sense]

If they announced Draconian new rules, it just means the PMs will move to areas that don't have the rules, or to the black market, or buried until the rules go away. The good thing, is the price should go to the moon. When has banning something ever made it cheaper?

[Joe King]

If they announced Draconian new rules, it just means the PMs will move to areas that don't have the rules, or to the black market, or buried until the rules go away. The good thing, is the price should go to the moon. When has banning something ever made it cheaper?
Did it do those any good who kept their gold in 1933? Was there a black market in gold during those 40 some odd years gold was illegal to own in the US?

[StackerKen]

If they announced Draconian new rules, it just means the PMs will move to areas that don't have the rules, or to the black market, or buried until the rules go away. The good thing, is the price should go to the moon. When has banning something ever made it cheaper?
Did it do those any good who kept their gold in 1933? Was there a black market in gold during those 40 some odd years gold was illegal to own in the US?


Great question...

waiting to hear an answer

[Silver Rocket Bitches!]

And don't kid yourself. They are confiscating people's gold as we speak..






http://www.secretgoldrush.com/images/We-Buy-Gold.jpg

[Joe King]

That's not confiscation.

[Silver Rocket Bitches!]

That's not confiscation.


Confiscation via ignorance. 70% of the above ground gold is in jewelry. The population believes their "broken, unwanted jewelry" is worth trading in for some FRNs.

Where is that gold going? Who is buying?

[Joe King]

That's not confiscation.


Confiscation via ignorance. 70% of the above ground gold is in jewelry. The population believes their "broken, unwanted jewelry" is worth trading in for some FRNs.Like PT said, sucker born every minute.


Where is that gold going?To the refinery with most of it, I'm sure.

Who is buying?Whoever has the $ to pay those ignorant people 40-70% spot. I doubt it's the gov, and to be confiscation it'd have to be coerced.

[Sparky]

That's not confiscation.


Confiscation via ignorance. 70% of the above ground gold is in jewelry. The population believes their "broken, unwanted jewelry" is worth trading in for some FRNs.

Where is that gold going? Who is buying?


I don't feel this is a fair characterization, to be muddled with "real" confiscation.

If someone trades in their broken jewelry, they are doing of their own free will, and it may even be the right thing to do. They can't extract any value from it unless they trade it in for something, and I doubt very much whether someone will offer them a box of ammo for it.

So the potential ignorance is in getting fair value for their broken jewelry. If I sell my used car for $5000 when I could have gotten $7500, has my car been confiscated? No. I've simply undervalued my asset. Shame on me, not the buyer.

Where is that gold going? Most of it is NOT staying with the buyer, if that's what you mean. It's getting melted down and exchanged for more FRNs. Then the melted down gold is being poured into bars or coins; perhaps you or I now own some of it. To think that all that scrap is being hoarded by TBTB, or being melted then hoarded, is a misconception. It's going back into the open market.

[Joe King]

I guess that's what's called loading the ballot box. ;D

[Half Sense]

If they announced Draconian new rules, it just means the PMs will move to areas that don't have the rules, or to the black market, or buried until the rules go away. The good thing, is the price should go to the moon. When has banning something ever made it cheaper?
Did it do those any good who kept their gold in 1933? Was there a black market in gold during those 40 some odd years gold was illegal to own in the US?


I believe a lot of it found its way to Europe. Those who sat on it for 40 years did OK too. I don't know if there was a black market here, since you were allowed to keep 10 oz per person. I guess they were available in coin shops as numismatics, but I'm not sure.

[Joe King]

If they announced Draconian new rules, it just means the PMs will move to areas that don't have the rules, or to the black market, or buried until the rules go away. The good thing, is the price should go to the moon. When has banning something ever made it cheaper?
Did it do those any good who kept their gold in 1933? Was there a black market in gold during those 40 some odd years gold was illegal to own in the US?


I believe a lot of it found its way to Europe. Those who sat on it for 40 years did OK too. I don't know if there was a black market here, since you were allowed to keep 10 oz per person. I guess they were available in coin shops as numismatics, but I'm not sure.
I'm sure some of it went alot of places.
As for 40 years, who's got that long to wait? Even if you were only 20 you're talkin' having to wait 'til you're 60. Which might not be a bad thing provided you could hang on to it that long without it getting stolen, or getting "caught" with it, or dying before then.

Or just plain losing it "somehow". http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/6356/titanicua.gif
You couldn't tell anyone about it hardly, either.

[gunDriller]

That's not confiscation.


Confiscation via ignorance. 70% of the above ground gold is in jewelry. The population believes their "broken, unwanted jewelry" is worth trading in for some FRNs.Like PT said, sucker born every minute.


Where is that gold going?To the refinery with most of it, I'm sure.

Who is buying?Whoever has the $ to pay those ignorant people 40-70% spot. I doubt it's the gov, and to be confiscation it'd have to be coerced.


that's a good point.

the US gov. could confiscate a lot of gold just by printing money and running a "cash for gold operation".

as the economic Depression continues, they would pick up a lot of extra gold.

but i don't think they always do things because they need the money. sometimes it seems like the US gov. is trying to create a conflict. e.g. Randy Weaver, Waco, etc.

these people are portrayed as being way-out, but i think a lot of them are normal and got pushed too far (Joe Stack).

i think a decision to confiscate Americans' personal property would be similar to a declaration of Civil War. it would be asking for trouble. sometimes i get the impression they want trouble, trouble helps pay the bills in certain parts of society.

[Silver Rocket Bitches!]

No one has any gold. Most have never even touched a gold coin. One guy went out and tried to sell a 1oz GAE on a boardwalk and couldn't even get $5 for it. Such is the ignorance of the masses.

Gold jewelry however, that is something everyone has.

Now we have gold buying parties, gold buying stores in strip malls, "we buy gold" in every store window.

Everyone, excluding the elite, is feeling the pinch right now. It's easy to cash in on your unwanted items, like jewelry, to pay off a bill.

Gold will play an important role once this present system collapses. Who is buying all that gold that is being traded for FRNs? Who owns or controls those refineries these places are selling to?

Who can deny that the dollar will be worthless? Many millions will soon have an epiphany about the gold that they sold.

[FunnyMoney]

Warning-warning

New drug dealer needed. Author seems to be smoking bad sh*t

CC




snip/snip
"mining costs for the few large new gold mines under construction today already exceed $800 per ounce"
snip/snip





For existing gold mines the number is already on average $600. For new mines it may not exceed 800 but my guess it is around that number. Besides, if the numbers are off by some small amount, how does that negate the topic presented? I found your comments to be very dificult to debate in terms of the OP, maybe you want to explain what it is you believe?

[crazychicken]

I'm in the business. I make my living in the business.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

That's why they make vanilla, chocolate and strawberry ice cream.

No big deal.

CC






Warning-warning

New drug dealer needed. Author seems to be smoking bad sh*t

CC




snip/snip
"mining costs for the few large new gold mines under construction today already exceed $800 per ounce"
snip/snip





For existing gold mines the number is already on average $600. For new mines it may not exceed 800 but my guess it is around that number. Besides, if the numbers are off by some small amount, how does that negate the topic presented? I found your comments to be very dificult to debate in terms of the OP, maybe you want to explain what it is you believe?

[FunnyMoney]

Seems like an article written with the purpose o discouraging private people to hold PM's. I am not saying that it is impossible to happen but it may be just a PM hit piece to help shake out some weak hands...


No not at all. And just a few days after this OP I wrote the "precious metals to 5-digits" one. But thanks for the angle to debate on...

I think the short essay is more about regulations and the possible resulting civil war than it is about a successful confiscation of the metals. I usually try to title something for impact and in this OP the title does not really convey the information fully. I explain in the OP that there will be a gold standard and gold confiscation going on at the same time and at many different layers. I agree with the other posters about the black market being one of those other layers as well.

As far as your mentioning of "weak hands", well we are seeing an upswing this month so I certainly don't think shaking out weak hands is the issue, and as other posters have mentioned, holding it and being able to hold onto it during tough times is very important. Also, for a long time the following was my footer (at GIM1)...

"Victory will not be measured by what price gold reaches, but by how many middle class families have protected themselves with it."

[DMac]

FunnyMoney,

I disagree with your thesis. I do agree that there is a possibility, if a new gold standard is introduced, of nations nationalizing their respective metals. This could very well include metal that is already dug up out of the ground (private ownership).

I do not think this kind of action would lead to a civil war, nor do I think there is a civil war coming to US soil (generally speaking).

The chaos that follows a change in the monetary system might include small pockets of riots, looting and the like, but "we the people" have drank too much fluoride and watched too much porn to have the gumption required to actually rise up against the ruling class.

When I hear civil war I think of M60 armed humvees in the cities and IEDs going off near pockets of rebellion. Classic "insurgency." I don't think Americans have it in them.

This will not be the first change in monetary systems this country has faced. Only 1 of which had a civil war attached to it and I think that war had more to do with the "Internationalists" making a concerted effort to ravage the country than it did based on the shock of a new monetary era.

[Book]

When I hear civil war I think of M60 armed humvees in the cities and IEDs going off near pockets of rebellion. Classic "insurgency." I don't think Americans have it in them.



http://orlandofitnesstogether.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/self-employed-slob.jpg

http://jasonalba.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/slob.jpg

Not unless they "confiscate" teevee remote controls.



:)

[DMac]

I see your couch pics and raise you breadlines. We didn't war then, when they took the gold from us, why would we war now?

http://willienelsonpri.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/bread-lines-food-shortage-depression.jpg
http://www.old-picture.com/american-history-1900-1930s/pictures/Bowery-Bread-Line.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_oTwEGiup_Wo/TGSnDP_h5BI/AAAAAAAAFVY/CHIzb8SW8Ag/s640/BreadLine.jpg

[Sparky]

...
the US gov. could confiscate a lot of gold just by printing money and running a "cash for gold operation".
...


I hope you realize the irony that the US government has been the largest seller of retail gold for the last 25 years through the American Eagle (and now gold Buffalo) programs. With sales accelerating in recent years, it sure doesn't seem like their plan is to take control of the physical gold market.

This is why confiscation would be political suicide. Sell a product for 25 years under the claim that it will provide safety and value, and then confiscate it? What politician is going to support that?

If they want to ultimately suppress the market and eliminate gold as competition for fiat, it will be through exorbitant taxation of both sales and capital gains. That's where the real concern should be, and not confiscation.

[DMac]

...
the US gov. could confiscate a lot of gold just by printing money and running a "cash for gold operation".
...


I hope you realize the irony that the US government has been the largest seller of retail gold for the last 25 years through the American Eagle (and now gold Buffalo) programs. With sales accelerating in recent years, it sure doesn't seem like their plan is to take control of the physical gold market.

This is why confiscation would be political suicide. Sell a product for 25 years under the claim that it will provide safety and value, and then confiscate it? What politician is going to support that?

If they want to ultimately suppress the market and eliminate gold as competition for fiat, it will be through exorbitant taxation of both sales and capital gains. That's where the real concern should be, and not confiscation.


I agree that this is the route they will take:

If they want to ultimately suppress the market and eliminate gold as competition for fiat, it will be through exorbitant taxation of both sales and capital gains. That's where the real concern should be, and not confiscation.

[chad]

i posted a thread about this at GIM.

i have a good friend, now in his late 70s, that was a huge player during the 1980s run up. he was very good friends with several reps and senators who told him off the record this was in the works. the runup quickly died out though, and nothing was ever implemented. he swears that they had a tax plan all ready to go, they just never pulled the trigger on it.

this is one of the reasons i've always bought fractional. easier to get rid of under the radar.

fwiw, the guy in question has never lied to me, and i trust him implicitly.