The death of skilled labour?

[Liquid]

After 2 months of waiting, I finally got my sails back today from the local canvas/sail repair shop. Just walking in there, is a sailor's wet dream. Entering the front door is nothing more than an old wooden staircase that leads to a large open loft upstairs. Sails everywhere, the smell of sail cloth,dacron. A 20 foot table, massive stitching machine...and a wall of windows overlooking sailboats in the marina. Natural light from the windows, and being greeted by the sail repairman Ruie, a firm handshake, a warm smile...gives the impression that you've know him your whole life. He's a big man, built for moving large canvas, and just huge strong hands.

During our relaxed conversation, I looked around at all the sails about, and asked him if he was the only one repairing and modifying the sails. He apologized for taking so long on my sails, and told me that the summer was the busy time and he was the only one doing the work.

He said he can't keep a worker for more than 2 months. I asked him, "Why?" What he did next surprised me. He smiled, and held up his hands and looked at them.

He said "Hands. Sail repair is very skilled labour, and I can not pass down my knowledge because the young folk can't work with their hands. They sit at a desk and work on a computer. They don't have the hands."

Ruie also said that older folk have the hands, but physically can not do the job because of age.

My question, is what happens to all the "Ruies" in our country, from all trades..who can not pass on their knowledge? Is there a dying of skilled labour that is happening?

Why, even in our high unemployment, young folk refuse to work with their hands? Or just can't anymore?

Ruie's the best in sail repair, he's been doing it for 20 something years..and he can't find someone to pass down the tradition. When he closes shop and retires in the future, all of that will close too.

This is very demoralizing to me because I am skilled labour too, and I too, work with my hands.

[Phoenix]

It's a combination of factors.

The addiction to video games and computers in general are "rewiring" peoples' brains away from "manual" labor (manual used in the purest form, i.e., with one's hands). Use of a QWERTY keyboard, mouse, text-messaging keys, or video game controller are the sole "tools" most people use nowadays. There are reports of 20-somethings, even 30-somethings being unable to even do the most basic home maintenance tasks that involve a tool, such as a screwdriver.

When I was growing up, I didn't have a computer or even an Atari until late. I focused my attention on plastic model kids, planes & ships mostly, and this required fine detail work of assembly and painting. I also disassembled, and usually correctly reassembled electric toys and electronics. My first owned computer wasn't until I was 24.

Further, and I know you don't want to hear this, the racial factor is there, as well. Negroids just aren't "designed" to do good work with advanced tools or machines. Basket weaving? Sure, some of the African baskets are pretty cool. But a Negro "engineer" is more of a laugh than a serious career. There are a few tokens, but none that distinguish themselves. Other than Asians, and even then, including most Asians, attention to detail and highly-advanced skill in doing good work isn't "there." Most of what we enjoy today is the work of Europeans, Germanics & Celts, mostly, all known for their phenomenal tradition of advanced work with machines (Germans, Scandinavians, and English/Scots, in particular). If you buy something from Germany, it's almost assured the thing will WORK. Buy something from China, and it's 50/50 - despite the high(er)-IQs, the craftsmanship just isn't developed highly enough, and may never be. The exception is the Japanese, usually regarded as the "White men" of Asia.

[Ponce]

The same goes for real machinist who knows how to work with a metal engine lathe and not one where all that you do is push buttons......at this time the market is short of ma chinest and cannot be found anywhere.

Skilled labor just to go from father to son but now that the fathers are no longer working the sons cannot learn........lot of knowledge will be lost in the incoming years.

[chad]

what's the big fucking deal? just buy a new sail from china. hey, it'l rip apart and you'll have to buy 2,000 of them, but that's progress, folks.

[ShortJohnSilver]

Further, and I know you don't want to hear this, the racial factor is there, as well. Negroids just aren't "designed" to do good work with advanced tools or machines. Basket weaving? Sure, some of the African baskets are pretty cool. But a Negro "engineer" is more of a laugh than a serious career. There are a few tokens, but none that distinguish themselves. Other than Asians, and even then, including most Asians, attention to detail and highly-advanced skill in doing good work isn't "there." Most of what we enjoy today is the work of Europeans, Germanics & Celts, mostly, all known for their phenomenal tradition of advanced work with machines (Germans, Scandinavians, and English/Scots, in particular). If you buy something from Germany, it's almost assured the thing will WORK. Buy something from China, and it's 50/50 - despite the high(er)-IQs, the craftsmanship just isn't developed highly enough, and may never be. The exception is the Japanese, usually regarded as the "White men" of Asia.


There are to my knowledge, no African car manufacturers that are not simply assembly plants for stuff designed elsewhere.

However my Toyota was much better designed than either my Audi or my VW or my Saab 900.

[Book]

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00446/news-graphics-2007-_446667a.jpg

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/theappetizer/couchpotato.jpg

We know why. I can remember me and my brothers each getting a complete Craftsman Tool Set for Christmas and thereafter working on our own bicycles and later automobiles.

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[Liquid]

The addiction to video games and computers in general are "rewiring" peoples' brains away from "manual" labor (manual used in the purest form, i.e., with one's hands). Use of a QWERTY keyboard, mouse, text-messaging keys, or video game controller are the sole "tools" most people use nowadays. There are reports of 20-somethings, even 30-somethings being unable to even do the most basic home maintenance tasks that involve a tool, such as a screwdriver.

When I was growing up, I didn't have a computer or even an Atari until late. I focused my attention on plastic model kids, planes & ships mostly, and this required fine detail work of assembly and painting. I also disassembled, and usually correctly reassembled electric toys and electronics. My first owned computer wasn't until I was 24.

Very good points Phoenix.

Your childhood sounds like mine. We had an atari, but were only allowed to use it for 30 minutes. I did models as well, especially remote controlled cars. The kits where you build them from the parts, then break them, and have to repair them. We each had our own 'mechanic' shop repairing our cars. I was 21 when I owned my first computer.

I think you are right though, modern tools are of the high tech type. A kid doesn't need to use a screwdriver if he can text and play games on a computer all day. When he gets older, he just doesn't have the skillset to work with his hands.

This does not give me much hope for the future of our country.

[Ponce]

Do away with TV and computers and the kids will learn more and also exercise........I would love it if the US were to go back 200 years........no pro, we are going to ;D

[Down1]

Maybe the teacher is the problem. Maybe the wages the teacher was paying were an even bigger problem.
I see nothing in computer use that would prohibit one from working with their hands.
Some computer games require a wee bit of dexterity to accomplish anything.

[Down1]

Do away with TV and computers and the kids will learn more and also exercise........I would love it if the US were to go back 200 years........no pro, we are going to ;D

Actually they can keep the computers.
Do away with TV and public schools and they will learn more.

[Fortyone]

Maybe the teacher is the problem. Maybe the wages the teacher was paying were an even bigger problem.
I see nothing in computer use that would prohibit one from working with their hands.
Some computer games require a wee bit of dexterity to accomplish anything.



And what type of trade will that dexterity give them without knowledge of the thing they are trying to make or repair?

[hoarder]

Book and Down1 nailed it. Teevee is the reason there is no work ethic in the West.

Think back to all the teevee you have watched in your life. How often does teevee instill the pride and honor of the traditional American work ethic? Computers are not to blame. If Americans had work ethic they could work with their hands and do a better job with the help of the information age.

Mass media is the backbone of any nation. That's why America has the backbone of an earthworm.

[Liquid]

Think back to all the teevee you have watched in your life. How often does teevee instill the pride and honor of the traditional American work ethic?


It doesn't instill any work ethic, you are right. I do think old Ruie has a point though, a lot of folks have lost their hands with technology. I work with my hands. On my days off, I train for my job in the gym. I'll grab a couple of 90's off the dumbell rack and just stand there, holding them at my side, until my arms start burning.

Take Ruie, he's got hands of a mountain, arms, like legs from pushing canvas around the past 20 years. It's no surprise young folk pecking at computers can't keep up.

It's a dying breed, and it is very sad.

[hoarder]

I do think old Ruie has a point though, a lot of folks have lost their hands with technology.Hollywood encourages game playing. For billions of hours every year, tens of millions of people play games and gain basically nothing. I consider myself lucky that I'm not born vulnerable to this time wasting, life wasting pastime.

I'll grab a couple of 90's off the dumbell rack and just stand there, holding them at my side, until my arms start burning.

Off topic here, but you are only doing your muscles good if they are moving. Holding them rigid makes them sick by shortening the fascia.

[Liquid]

Off topic here, but you are only doing your muscles good if they are moving. Holding them rigid makes them sick by shortening the fascia.
[/quote]

You are right, but I do that for grip strength with my hands. Nobody else in the gym does that, but it's helped me surprisingly. I've improved my work by doing this.

[hoarder]

You are right, but I do that for grip strength with my hands. Nobody else in the gym does that, but it's helped me surprisingly. I've improved my work by doing this.

[hoarder]

The way you can tell if people have worked hard with their hands for many years is to see if their fingers are bent away from their thumbs instead of sticking straight out. After decades of working with my hands, I got my first computer at age 45.
I could not left click the mouse because I had working-mans hands. I had to hold the mouse with my left hand and click it with my right index finger for several months before I could get my right index finger trained to go that far to the left. :D

[Liquid]

The way you can tell if people have worked hard with their hands for many years is to see if their fingers are bent away from their thumbs instead of sticking straight out. After decades of working with my hands, I got my first computer at age 45.
I could not left click the mouse because I had working-mans hands. I had to hold the mouse with my left hand and click it with my right index finger for several months before I could get my right index finger trained to go that far to the left. :D


Wow. I guess I haven't been working with my hands long enough to get to that point.

One thing I do notice though....is my hands have gotten hideous. On my palm, I have calluses below each finger, big ones. On the rest of my hands, scars. I have to remind myself, they are just hands.

I guess I will look forward to the day I can no longer use a mouse! ;D Cheers!

[dysgenic]

I'm going to go against the grain here and say that I believe that Americans work MUCH harder now than they ever have. I also believe that work ethic is better now than it's ever been.

dys

[Phoenix]

We know why. I can remember me and my brothers each getting a complete Craftsman Tool Set for Christmas and thereafter working on our own bicycles and later automobiles.


My left index finger still has the scar from when I slipped and tried to saw through it when I was 10. ;D

[Phoenix]

Book and Down1 nailed it. Teevee is the reason there is no work ethic in the West.

Think back to all the teevee you have watched in your life. How often does teevee instill the pride and honor of the traditional American work ethic? Computers are not to blame. If Americans had work ethic they could work with their hands and do a better job with the help of the information age.

Mass media is the backbone of any nation. That's why America has the backbone of an earthworm.


I watched plenty of Talmudvision growing up.

Then my brain started working.