Debt and the Collapse of Civilizations

[wildcard]

http://www.examiner.com/american-history-in-national/debt-and-the-collapse-of-civilizations

Debt and the Collapse of Civilizations

September 11th, 2010 9:31 am ET



The American government has been overspending for a decade. Over the last two years, that spending has kicked into overdrive. The budget deficit and national debt have hit crisis levels. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has dubbed it a "national security issue." She is correct in her assessment. Civilizations that overspend without modifying their habits collapse. Overspending has destroyed some of history's greatest civilizations and empires including Han China, the Roman Empire, the French Empire, and the Soviet Union.

The Han were one of China's greatest dynasties. The dynasty ruled for about four centuries from 206 B.C. to 220 A.D. Han rule is considered a golden age and their influence extends to the modern day. The majority ethnic group in modern China consider themselves "Han." The empire enjoyed a thriving economy that reached Rome and India. The government spent on infrastructure improvements, tried to provide poor relief, and allowed merchants to engage in money making ventures. As time wore on, the government required more funds for their projects. Additionally, they wanted to control the largely autonomous large landowners.

In response to the need for cash and desire to control the upper classes, the government increased regulations, taxes, and spending. The Han even began nationalizing industries. Government actions crushed the merchants, led to deficit spending, and weakened the economy. Government debt increased dramatically weakening stability. Landowners grew stronger and the poor grew poorer. The government could no longer respond to threats inside and outside of China. The government decentralized and eventually collapsed under the weight of its economic policies.

Han China's fall resembles that of the Roman Empire's. The Romans built the greatest empire in history. The empire prospered from its founding in 31 B.C. until the third century. During the third century, the economy and political structure collapsed. Hyperinflation, currency devaluation, and overspending doomed the empire. Roman trade networks completely collapsed. Imperial contenders fought each other and spent personal and government money on soldiers. Eventually, the political situation settled, but the economy never recovered.

Diocletian ended the political turmoil in 284 and tried to restore the economy. His political solution lasted until 312 and his economic reforms never worked. Emperors struggled to maintain control throughout the fourth century. They spent tremendous resources on the military to defend themselves against upstarts and barbarian invaders. Taxes increased dramatically. People refused to work and the army requisitioned taxes in the form of foodstuffs. The empire could not afford the men to defend the borders. Eventually, the weight of spending crushed the empire and it collapsed in 476.

Roman emperors taxed their citizens as far as they could. The French kings taxed their citizens even further. The French court spent lavishly on themselves. Instead of building infrastructure and cultivating a climate friendly to economic development, they built palaces, fought several wars against Britain, and taxed their citizens in every conceivable way. The government even forced people to do manual labor as a form of taxation.

The French people suffered under the oppressive taxation. They also suffered from famine and malnutrition as a result of the Little Ice Age. As people starved and struggled to pay their taxes, the nobles lived unbelievably lavish lives. The government continued to spend freely. France teetered on the edge of economic collapse. When Louis XVI agreed to help finance the American Revolution, France went bankrupt. The national debt collapsed the system. Louis was forced to take drastic action. Events spiraled out of his control and the monarchy collapsed. The economic crisis that precipitated the French Revolution led to 26 years of bloodshed and instability in Europe.

Like Revolutionary France, the Soviet Union collapsed under the weight of debt. Throughout the Cold War period, the Soviets and United States engaged in an arms race and waged proxy wars across the world. By the late seventies, the Soviets appeared on the verge of victory in the Cold War. However, the invasion of Afghanistan and election of Ronald Reagan changed the dynamic and forced Soviet spending to unprecedented levels.

The Soviet economy spent billions fighting in Afghanistan. It became an economic and military black hole. The Soviets struggled to fight the American backed Afghan rebels. At the same time, President Reagan began an unprecedented peacetime military buildup. The Soviets felt compelled to try to keep up. The more dynamic American economy boomed while the Soviet economy sputtered. By 1989, the Soviets could no longer afford to keep their empire. They allowed the East European satellite nations to leave. In 1991, the U.S.S.R. itself collapsed under the weight of its debt.

The United States has not crossed the Rubicon yet. However, the government can no longer afford to keep running trillion dollar deficits. President Obama has added more to the national debt than every president from George Washington to Ronald Reagan combined. As a result, the Pentagon and even Obama's own Secretary of State have declared the debt a national security issue. History proves this assessment correct.

[Book]

When the unaudited Bank Of International Settlements declares the USA bankrupt (like they did to the USSR) we just say "ok" and lay down and die?

|--0--|

[Joe King]

When the unaudited Bank Of International Settlements declares the USA bankrupt (like they did to the USSR) we just say "ok" and lay down and die?

|--0--|
They'd appreciate it, yes.

[palani]

The several States that form the united States are common law countries and are not civilized.


civilization
1704, "law which makes a criminal process civil"

[wildcard]

Is this going to be another sovereign citizen scam?

[palani]

Is this going to be another sovereign citizen scam?


If there is to be a scam it is you thinking you are buying anything with someone elses debt instruments (that are worthless by the way). Why would I want any of your worthless FRNs?

[wildcard]

Could have just said yes. :P

[palani]

Could have just said yes. :P


Ball is in your court.

[wildcard]

Sorry, for 29.99 (money order with my strawman's name on it only please) sent to my p.o. box will get you my inside info that will allow you to get out of debt without paying another cent! :oo-->

*next week we learn how to drive a motor vehicle without paying for license or registration!

[Book]

Is this going to be another sovereign citizen scam?


Bingo!

:D

[palani]

Sorry, for 29.99 (money order with my strawman's name on it only please) sent to my p.o. box will get you my inside info that will allow you to get out of debt without paying another cent! :oo-->

*next week we learn how to drive a motor vehicle without paying for license or registration!


So you don't believe that common law is the established law of the united States? You prefer insurgent status under the 14th amendment? And then you complain because fiat currency is essentially worthless? Do I have all these facts right?

You get no sympathy from me buddy.

[palani]

Bingo!

:D


Bingo must be a charter member of Ameri-Snitch.

[Joe King]

Could have just said yes. :P
I think what he's getting at is that when a Nation switches to a monetary system based upon debt, it is technically bankrupt at that point.
...and what he said about FRNs is also technically correct in that they are nothing more than the physical representation of private bank credit that's been extended to someone else, and we are passing those physical representations of debt around like they're two-party checks that can never actually be cashed. Just passed around as they're traded for goods/services and for the discharge of taxes.

Either the people who set up this "monetary" system were either complete idiots, or scheming bastards set on destroying a Nation, and possibly the whole World.
But there's no doubt as to which group the people who all just went along with it belonged to.

[Phoenix]

Why would I want any of your worthless FRNs?


You can send all your "worthless FRNs" to me.

[palani]

You can send all your "worthless FRNs" to me.


Have none. Don't accept them. I prefer insolvency to bankruptcy.

[wildcard]

So we can assume you're stealing internet service? :P

[Phoenix]

You can send all your "worthless FRNs" to me.


Have none. Don't accept them.


LOL

You're not a very good liar.

[Book]

So we can assume you're stealing internet service? :P


Sovereign Citizen of the Interwebs don't pay nobody nuttin...lol.

:ROFL:

[palani]

So we can assume you're stealing internet service? :P

If you can assume that of me might I assume the same of YOU? How do you pay for YOUR internet access? Gold or silver?

[palani]

Sovereign Citizen of the Interwebs don't pay nobody nuttin...lol.

In many ways it beats being a SNITCH.

[Joe King]

Why would I want any of your worthless FRNs?


You can send all your "worthless FRNs" to me.

They're worthless in the same sense that the Emperor wore no clothes. As long as enough people either don't notice or don't care that they are using representations of debt as "money", using them in trade can be gotten away with.

It's when their true value becomes readily apparent to all, that you'll need the proverbial wheelbarrow full of them to buy anything.

[wildcard]

Could have just said yes. :P
I think what he's getting at is that when a Nation switches to a monetary system based upon debt, it is technically bankrupt at that point.
...and what he said about FRNs is also technically correct in that they are nothing more than the physical representation of private bank credit that's been extended to someone else, and we are passing those physical representations of debt around like they're two-party checks that can never actually be cashed. Just passed around as they're traded for goods/services and for the discharge of taxes.

Either the people who set up this "monetary" system were either complete idiots, or scheming bastards set on destroying a Nation, and possibly the whole World.
But there's no doubt as to which group the people who all just went along with it belonged to.


You got all that out of what he said? You guys must have made some kind of connection. :oo-->

[palani]

You got all that out of what he said? You guys must have made some kind of connection. :oo-->

If you believe you are capable of buying anything with paper money then you are as dumb as a box of rocks. This whole fiat money system built up is COMMUNIST and the COMMUNISTS don't believe in private property. All property is owned by the state in this system and you are working as their agent.

Don't believe this? Read 12 USC 411 VERY, VERY carefully to see where you fit into this scheme.


Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized.

The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.

It goes without saying that this includes anyone who begs for worthless FRNs to be sent to them. I heard much the same line from panhandlers in New Orleans in the 70's.

[Phoenix]

Sovereign Citizen of the Interwebs don't pay nobody nuttin...lol.

In many ways it beats being a SNITCH.


Hey, punk, why don't you lay out exactly who you are, so we can know what we're dealing with?

[wildcard]

Hey buddy take it to court, I'm sure they'll see it your way!

[palani]

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!

I guess this would be about right.

[wildcard]

Well surely you can link us to all the cases you've won with your esoteric baloney! Just one will do!

[palani]

Well surely you can link us to all the cases you've won with your esoteric baloney! Just one will do!


Liberum corpus aestimationem non recipit. The body of a freeman does not admit of valuation.

[wildcard]

ROFL. Con man.

[palani]

ROFL. Con man.


ROFL. Jerk.

[Joe King]

Could have just said yes. :P
I think what he's getting at is that when a Nation switches to a monetary system based upon debt, it is technically bankrupt at that point.
...and what he said about FRNs is also technically correct in that they are nothing more than the physical representation of private bank credit that's been extended to someone else, and we are passing those physical representations of debt around like they're two-party checks that can never actually be cashed. Just passed around as they're traded for goods/services and for the discharge of taxes.

Either the people who set up this "monetary" system were either complete idiots, or scheming bastards set on destroying a Nation, and possibly the whole World.
But there's no doubt as to which group the people who all just went along with it belonged to.


You got all that out of what he said? You guys must have made some kind of connection. :oo-->

I'm just tellin' it the way it is. And yes, I got "all that" out of what he posted because I understand what it is we're dealing with.

[wildcard]

ROFL. Con man.


ROFL. Jerk.


Your mom! :-*

[palani]

Your mom! :-*


Malitia est acida, est mali animi affectus. Malice is sour, it is the quality of a bad mind.

[wildcard]

Farts are funny, but they still stink. :o


*it's like sukhoi fan and skirnir had an annoying child together.

[Phoenix]

Well surely you can link us to all the cases you've won with your esoteric baloney! Just one will do!


I offer a 1/10th ounce GAE if he can cite even one case where his crap actually succeeded.

[wildcard]

Damn, real money. I may have to become a con man too. :P

[wildcard]

Here's what happens when you trust these hucksters (that's too kind a word) charlatans :

http://sovereign-patriots.pissedconsumer.com/a4v-has-been-very-disappointing-20100311174444.html

My Experience with A4V has been VERY DISAPPOINTING!!

I spent several thousands in paper, copying, and mail and got nothing but Frivolous Filling Fees at $5000 each and was forced into a Chapter 13 Bankruptcy to save my home and one rental property of two. The second one was stolen by the bank and the court then the Bank was kind enough to send me a 1099 for the amount OWED on the loan.

I started the Super Bond / Private Bond For Set-Off / Bonded Promissory Note / UCC Redemption And A4V in May of 2005, mentored by Tom S., Sam K., and David C. I have not put in the full names because anyone that has been around “Commercial Process” knows who they are..

I put everything I could into learning the processes and in the end,, Virtually LOST Everything. I guess the worst part of it is that I was to fault because I trusted these people to help me through the process and in the end when everything was closing in, the Banks were Foreclosing, the Sheriff was virtually at the door of my home and was auctioning of two others, the IRS was issuing Leans and Levy’s, State was issuing Tax Warrants and I asked for help,, they Turned Against me, ABANDONED me and then made it look like I was the one to fault.

These Disclaimers they use are BOGUS! I dare any of these so called gurus to stand with me or any of us, side by side and force the Banks, Courts, IRSS and the States to accept the A4V, Bonds, Notes, UCC-1 and what ever else they can come up with.

In the Case of David C. he professes to be,, county notary highest office in law, but when I paid him over $4,000.00 to file his Court documents (Removals) he all of a sudden Disappeared for Several months along with my money.. I see he comes out of hiding every now and then, long enough to get some more peoples money then he disappears again.

Another thing I have seen is that all of these gurus are excellent talkers / salesmen.. they could sell freezers to Eskimos, furs to mink ranchers and egg’s to chicken breeders.. thus there capability to sell all of us on there programs. Which brings up the point of non of them asking for money, they may not ask up front, but they get ya with cover costs, seminar fee’s and support / help group fee’s.

I’m not against paying some one for there services as long as they provide the service and stand by it when all *** breaks loose. ( YEAH RIGHT ) Just try to get one to stand there with you when the Sheriff is auctioning off your property or the IRSS is stealing your paycheck or in my case my Disability Insurance and my wife’s Social Security.

I love it when they tell you to do your own “Do Diligence” before getting involved with these processes but when they are constantly changing the process/technology it is very difficult to stay ahead off the “Creditors” and assume you are getting it right.

Lastly, I, through all that has happened to us and continues to happen, I still believe that the government is bankrupt, that we have Unlimited Social Security Funds Due to us, that the banks and the courts are illegally seizing property and freedoms from all of us and that at some point in the not so far future we will take back what is rightfully ours.

Over the last two years since I was abandoned by what I thought to be Friends, I have suffered financially and physically with several strokes, a heart attack, quad bypass, knee surgery and stomach / intestinal surgery for ulcers but I believe god has a purpose for me and I look forward to every day.

Sorry for the rant, but I just wanted to forewarn others of the dangers when you get involved in any of these processes – technologies.

I want to thank all of you for your comments and I intend to answer them as I can. But first I would like to address the Sovereignty issue, Sovereignty is a State of Mind in this countries commercial neighborhoods. To these people a “Sovereign Individual or Person” is nothing more than a crackpot or tax protester or as I was told by a state attorney, I was in a “Flight of Fancy” frame of mind and that I had no case or cause to overcome there litigation and was wished “Good Luck”..

I contacted the IRSS criminal investigation division, gave them the information and requested a “Criminal Investigation” into the matter. I was abruptly told to “Drop it” or they would be looking at me next..

So my friends a Sovereign brothers and sisters, all I can say is that unless your are ready willing and able to loss everything you ever worked for,,, BE VERY CAREFULL OF WHERE AND HOW YOU TREAD!! These people have no consciousness when it comes to our fight to retain our Sovereignty. Money and Lawyers and Banks and the Courts are a very hard and long fight, you better be willing to go all of the way and you had better have capable HELP that is willing to stand with you and not just give you the ol` DO Your Own “Do Diligence” Mumbo Jumbo.

It is *** few Sovereigns that can get through process and come out standing on both feet and of those I would be suspicious and would want Solid Proof of any payoff. Unfortunately I was NOT ONE OF THOSE. Right smack in the middle of everything the very people that I call my Friends and Brothers and Sisters Turned against me for asking them to help me through the rest of the process when they knew I had had stroke and still to this day can not think quick enough on my feet to face down a tax or bank attorney in open court. I now have to depend on those Very Courts to help me get out of the mess they helped get me into.

Again please forgive me for the rant, I Do Believe in Personal Sovereignty, I believe we are entitled to our personal freedoms, I believe God has formed this country to be free from the oppression that it is now struggling with and that only, We can change it, but we can only change it by being honest and honorable and to help each other through the day to day struggles we all face.

NOW, to address your reply’s to my first post, only by trying the A4V process do you gain the knowledge and understanding of what it takes to succeed in the process, just be forewarned it is a struggle and not all people will be successful.

The IRSS will not honor anything that is not fought for. We must be able to stand shoulder to shoulder as Sovereigns to make them do the right thing but do not be naive enough to think it will be easy. There will be complications and penalties to bear and even in the end they will not be honorable.

I personally have not heard of Doug Riddle until and friend brought me to this forum and that’s partly due to my health issues and healing the past two years, I will make every attempt to read and understand his process. I to pray and hope it might help me in my personal processes.

Question: What I'm curious about is how you fought all those liens. For example, lately some courts ruled that in order to foreclose, the bank has to provide the original contract/mortgage, and since most banks sell that to investors, they can't produce it.

Ans: the liens and levy’s are still being enforced only by filling a BK-13 have I managed to stop any further execution of them or a foreclosure. Like I wrote earlier I do not have the thought process and capability due to the strokes to stand before a court and battle the crooks that are attempting to steal everything from us.

As for the foreclosure’s there is only one group I have found that is willing to help and fight for you but they are limited to the attorneys that “Get IT” and Indiana does not have one.

Question: why are you at all even on this site. this talks about sovereignty . Are you still interested in being sovereign after all this jas happened to you? I would think that after this has happened to you , you would stay as far away from this stuff as possible. Are you still interested in this road?

Ans: YES!!! I am still interested in sovereignty and believe in it, but I must be careful not to over due it due to my health issues. I am drawn to it like a moth to a flame but smart enough to know I can be burned. I have hundreds of documents but Yes I will post copies of the frivolous filing letters along with the lien’s, levy’s and notices.

Question: Plus i been thinking everyone talks about what the possiblities are at being a secured creditor and sovereign but ther is litle evidence. To show what how to really operate as creditor and a sovereign. it like they use words to talk you in circles but know one can offer pure concrete evidence as to how this stuff works.

Question: But they are very clear to ask for money and when you ask a question they drag out the answer and never give the solution to your question they start using word you don't understand and does not show how to use the stand you are on.

Ans: Now you know where I’m coming from, I was drug into this by a friend who suggested I talk to a mentor, and that mentor took me through the process clear up to the point where the IRSS, state, banks, and courts were knocking on the doors and then let me standing there, broken and unable to defend myself even if I wanted to.

DO NOT TRUST ANYONE THAT PROFESSES TO BE A GURU OR PROFESSIONAL IN THIS PROCESS, INVESTIGATE THEM COMPLETELY AND ASK A THOUSAND QUESTION AND DEMAND PROOF!!

Question: Either they are done wrong, or they are instructed to send them back upon first receiving them with a FF letter to see if you'll give up right then and there, and most do. There are also 22 IRS branches, all of which are private corporations who work as collection agents for the US TREASURY, and compete against each other for your business. Which did you send your A4Vs to? Was it one of the 3 listed in Doug Riddles A4V material?

Ans: I can not say what others have done but I sent mine to Ogden, UT, See my exhibit: 2006-04-03_IRSS_FFN.pdf, then look at the FF letters, you will see that they are issued out of another branch. When I asked the Criminal Investigation Division why they are separated, I was told it was for their improved efficiency and accountability.

[Joe King]

What does any of that have to do with our monetary system being based upon debt and the fact it'll lead us to our financial Armageddon?

[FunnyMoney]

What does any of that have to do with our monetary system being based upon debt and the fact it'll lead us to our financial Armageddon?





Not a lot really, it was just wildcard's rant. But he admitted it was a rant already in the post and actually I feel sorry for him. I hope things get better (especially health related) for him soon. Mom told me long long ago that you can't fight city hall. I have seen so many people lose against the man, even when they have clear cut issues that all sides know they are right on - just because it would have costed the govt man too much or somebody's job or some information to get out or something.

Even jury nullification doesn't pan out. I have seen decisions handed down by a unanimous jury and then turned around by the appeals courts (no jury there) using the absolute most stupid and often false logic reasons or even saying something that is an outright lie. From there you have to appeal to the supreme court if want that to be over turned, but they refuse to even hear the vast majority of cases.

People don't get it - a completely corrupt facist police state is slowly evolving, but it is evolving.

[Book]

The body of a freeman does not admit of valuation.



http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/82/24382-004-4A792B67.jpg

Just swallow your yummy pills before the nurse sticks your freeman buttock with that Thorazine needle again palani.

:D

[Book]

Not a lot really, it was just wildcard's rant. But he admitted it was a rant already in the post and actually I feel sorry for him. I hope things get better (especially health related) for him soon.



Wildcard only posted that rant article. He didn't write that article...lol.

:oo-->

[palani]

I offer a 1/10th ounce GAE if he can cite even one case where his crap actually succeeded.


A fools bargain: to exchange substance for opinion.

[palani]

Wildcard only posted that rant article. He didn't write that article...lol.



And odds are he has as little understanding of A4V as the author.

If A4V is valid then why pay $4,000 for help in the process? Should anyone send you a bill for $4,000 after they have trained you to A4V all bills then wouldn't making the payment be an acknowledgement that you didn't learn anything and therefore did not owe anything for the "training"?

A4V it instead and send it back to the originator. That then is his payment.

[palani]

Just swallow your yummy pills before the nurse sticks your freeman buttock with that Thorazine needle again palani.



Trolling for another snitch commission, demosothenes?

[Joe King]

What does any of that have to do with our monetary system being based upon debt and the fact it'll lead us to our financial Armageddon?





Not a lot really, it was just wildcard's rant. But he admitted it was a rant already in the post and actually I feel sorry for him. I hope things get better (especially health related) for him soon. Mom told me long long ago that you can't fight city hall. I have seen so many people lose against the man, even when they have clear cut issues that all sides know they are right on - just because it would have costed the govt man too much or somebody's job or some information to get out or something.

Even jury nullification doesn't pan out. I have seen decisions handed down by a unanimous jury and then turned around by the appeals courts (no jury there) using the absolute most stupid and often false logic reasons or even saying something that is an outright lie. From there you have to appeal to the supreme court if want that to be over turned, but they refuse to even hear the vast majority of cases.

People don't get it - a completely corrupt facist police state is slowly evolving, but it is evolving.
Again, what does any of this have to do with understanding how a debt based monetary system works, what its flaws are and why those flaws will lead to a crash?

It seems that most take to heart the line in the 14th Amendment that states that the public debt shall not be questioned. Which kind of amazes me considering that everyone here should realize what it truly represents.
It's the one of the few things that affect all of us pretty much equally while leading to our demise, but apparently it's the only taboo subject on this site.

[Gknowmx]

Could have just said yes. :P
I think what he's getting at is that when a Nation switches to a monetary system based upon debt, it is technically bankrupt at that point.
...and what he said about FRNs is also technically correct in that they are nothing more than the physical representation of private bank credit that's been extended to someone else, and we are passing those physical representations of debt around like they're two-party checks that can never actually be cashed. Just passed around as they're traded for goods/services and for the discharge of taxes.

Either the people who set up this "monetary" system were either complete idiots, or scheming bastards set on destroying a Nation, and possibly the whole World.
But there's no doubt as to which group the people who all just went along with it belonged to.


I can agree with a lot of this but for two critical distinctions.

First the easier one: the people who set this up need be neither ‘complete idiots’, NOR ‘scheming bastards’; it much simpler than that: ‘they’ are simply SELFISH. This applies to those who devise the system as well as those that use it. To be sure, most users of this monetary system are idiots, but within society, there is natural selection where the useful idiots and the intelligent rise to the top. However, if the intelligence is only use to compete successfully with others (selfish) as opposed to being applied to understand the logical and moral implications of the system they are perpetuating, this proves that human intelligence while necessary, is not sufficient to manage a society or a civilization.

This leads to the second and deeper issue: what is money? Money is debt. Plain and simple. Having debt is not synonymous with technical bankruptcy. (We have had deep discussions about the nature of money back at GIM, and I would be glad to engage in one here as a separate thread.) The second critical distinction thus is to resolve between honest money and fiat money. Honest money can ONLY be linked to individuals, fiat money is anything else, corporations or nations alike. And really, when I say fiat money, I speak of fiat currency. It is easy to see that the basis for the birth of Usury can be explained by ignorance and lack of intelligence (the lack of the ability to understand abstract concepts, like money, but instead use something physical, a fiat currency, as if it was a 1:1 proxy for money—it is not, can not be). No conspiracy need be invoked, probably to the disappointment of many. This is not to say that men don't conspire, but that is totally secondary to the primary issue of monetary system design.

[wildcard]

What does any of that have to do with our monetary system being based upon debt and the fact it'll lead us to our financial Armageddon?





Not a lot really, it was just wildcard's rant. But he admitted it was a rant already in the post and actually I feel sorry for him. I hope things get better (especially health related) for him soon. Mom told me long long ago that you can't fight city hall. I have seen so many people lose against the man, even when they have clear cut issues that all sides know they are right on - just because it would have costed the govt man too much or somebody's job or some information to get out or something.

Even jury nullification doesn't pan out. I have seen decisions handed down by a unanimous jury and then turned around by the appeals courts (no jury there) using the absolute most stupid and often false logic reasons or even saying something that is an outright lie. From there you have to appeal to the supreme court if want that to be over turned, but they refuse to even hear the vast majority of cases.

People don't get it - a completely corrupt facist police state is slowly evolving, but it is evolving.
Again, what does any of this have to do with understanding how a debt based monetary system works, what its flaws are and why those flaws will lead to a crash?

It seems that most take to heart the line in the 14th Amendment that states that the public debt shall not be questioned. Which kind of amazes me considering that everyone here should realize what it truly represents.
It's the one of the few things that affect all of us pretty much equally while leading to our demise, but apparently it's the only taboo subject on this site.


Nothing JK, but you have a crazy person on your team. I'll let you figure out which one of you it is. ;D

[wildcard]

There are some idiots that believe some magic words from the UCC are going to save them and their families when the gestapo starts rounding people up. It won't.

[Joe King]

There are some idiots that believe some magic words from the UCC are going to save them and their families when the gestapo starts rounding people up. It won't.
Well of course. At the point that happens it's pretty well done. Stick a fork in it because any semblance of freedom would be long gone.

[wildcard]

It is gone. These guys thing they can say a few incantations to the judge and abracadabra they're golden. It's a scam and anyone peddling it is a shyster.

*FREEDOM IS DEAD. Repeat that til it sinks in. Don't believe me and I'll take you to any metropolitan police station and have you ask a few simple questions that 50 years ago would have been no problem and today will get you beat up and thrown in a cage.

[wildcard]

The only rights we have left are those we are willing to die for.

[Joe King]

It is gone. These guys thing they can say a few incantations to the judge and abracadabra they're golden. It's a scam and anyone peddling it is a shyster.

*FREEDOM IS DEAD. Repeat that til it sinks in. Don't believe me and I'll take you to any metropolitan police station and have you ask a few simple questions that 50 years ago would have been no problem and today will get you beat up and thrown in a cage.

The reason these guys lose in Court is because they're living and acting as though they're liable while trying to say in Court that they're not.
Anyone truly not liable to pay won't find themselves in Court in the first place.

IMO, freedom is only as dead as we think it is.

Let me ask. Is it possible for a non-sovereign to have sovereign Rights, or is everything civil Rights and privileges now?
I've asked this before but no one ever actually tries to answer.

[wildcard]

I don't need any rules or pieces of paper to tell me I'm free. If you think I believe all the cops and judges out there have this esoteric understanding of all those thousands and thousands of pages of bullshit code then I will have to lump you in with that other nut.

[Gknowmx]

I don't need any rules or pieces of paper to tell me I'm free. If you think I believe all the cops and judges out there have this esoteric understanding of all those thousands and thousands of pages of bullsh*t code then I will have to lump you in with that other nut.


Exactly why it is far easier to explain most people's behavior as a result of ignorance and selfishness than conspiracy.

[wildcard]

Well, the way I see it, you have those that refuse to think, those that think for themselves, and those that want to think for everyone. It's that 3rd group that starts the trouble.

[palani]

I don't need any rules or pieces of paper to tell me I'm free. If you think I believe all the cops and judges out there have this esoteric understanding of all those thousands and thousands of pages of bullsh*t code then I will have to lump you in with that other nut.
Written like a truely ignorant jacka$$. The court system knows there is no money. They want you there only to obtain your consent.

Try going to a broadway play sometime and you will find as much fiction there as you are ever likely to find in court.

[wildcard]

I don't need any rules or pieces of paper to tell me I'm free. If you think I believe all the cops and judges out there have this esoteric understanding of all those thousands and thousands of pages of bullsh*t code then I will have to lump you in with that other nut.
Written like a truely ignorant jacka$$. The court system knows there is no money. They want you there only to obtain your consent.

Try going to a broadway play sometime and you will find as much fiction there as you are ever likely to find in court.


Written like a jew parasite that cooks up bullshit to confuse and trap the goyim.

[palani]

Written like a jew parasite that cooks up bullsh*t to confuse and trap the goyim.


I'm guessing you must be some sort of an expert at reading jewish writing?

[wildcard]

Just good at picking out shysters and con men.

[palani]

Just good at picking out shysters and con men.

Recruiting?

[Joe King]

I don't need any rules or pieces of paper to tell me I'm free. If you think I believe all the cops and judges out there have this esoteric understanding of all those thousands and thousands of pages of bullsh*t code then I will have to lump you in with that other nut.
The reason I'm asking is because the last time I was down at the local police station having a chat with officer friendly he addressed me as having sovereign Rights.

Used the term himself.
I will say that it took me a bit by surprise actually. Which is why I asked the question here. If everything is privileges now, why would he say that?

To be clear, we were discussing the act of traveling in a lane of traffic upon a public easement and I never mentioned anything about Rights. He informed me and had no idea to whom he was actually speaking with. It could have been you or me or anyone else.

So if I hold no actual sovereignty, how is that I could actually have sovereign Rights of any type whatsoever?
Sovereignty is like being pregnant. You either are or you aren't.

[palani]

You never responded to my initial post


civilization
1704, "law which makes a criminal process civil"

Is your contention that the U.S. is not under common law?

[wildcard]

Run along little troll, peddle your crap someplace else.