Just refused installation of PG&E Smartmeter - round 1

[mrnhtbr2232]

So I'm eating breakfast minding my own business this morning and suddenly a knock on my driveway fence that denies entry beyond the outer periphery of my property. I'm here to install your Smart Meter. Oh really? Yeah, I'll only cut your power for about five minutes. Just like that? Yes, just like that. No, I refuse entry. (Followed by a few minutes of conversation whereby my visitor got to flex all the talking points his hit squad training prepared him for). In the end I held firm and told him no. So he whipped out a small hand held device and said I'll put you down for refusing entry to "the" property - screw you buddy, it's MY property. So then he goes on to tell me that PG&E will come by next, and up to three times, before they cut off my power. I still refuse. So he left.

So I did some research. First, there are anecdotal stories of PG&E climbing over people's fences and just doing the change when no one is home. There are also stories indicating that no matter how far PG&E pushes it, they won't cut off my power and instead will average my bill. Either way, it is clear that this monopolistic energy company will have their way eventually no matter what. Or so they think. Here's my beef: unlike the radio wave arguments, the higher bill arguments, etc. my bitch is being tracked. That's right - it's no one's ******* business when I'm home, when I'm not, what hours are peak, what hours my refrigerator starts, my TV goes on, or my computer boots. Invasion of privacy and passive surveillance 24/7 is a no-go for me.

It is none of their business to build a profile of my energy use. I'm all for billing me for the aggregate total I use as a consumer, but they are not welcome to turn my property into a big brother fixture for their profit and monitoring. So, it looks like I'll be tangling with the man. I'm about to go to the local hardware store and retrofit some gear to prevent the analog meter from being popped. I'm also going to cage my gas meter. I suspect this is just getting started and I'll keep you all in the loop. Consider this: law enforcement needs a warrant to come on my property and PG&E does not. I doubt I'm the only one who has a problem with that. So it's NO Smart Meter for me. Let the games begin.

[mamboni]

So tell us: how many plants you got growing in the attic? ;D ;D ;D

[Phoenix]

You better hope another PG&E gas leak doesn't occur near your house...

::)

"Smartmeter" = NEWSPEAK

[ximmy]

This might not be a battle worth fighting... they sent me notice that they are going to replace mine soon too...

[wildcard]

How do they check your meter now? If they don't have access that is? Is there already some radio/remote meter on there?

[gunDriller]

This might not be a battle worth fighting... they sent me notice that they are going to replace mine soon too...


they actually turned off power to the building - while i was working on the computer. then turned it back on about 5 minutes later.

they can measure load but it is very possible to make sure that's all they measure.

one tool for this is a 60 Hz filter, something that only passes AC and then they can't see what your switching on & off - all they can know is the current, so they can measure kilowatt-hours, just like before.

a 60 Hz filter is like a big huge transformer that is neither step up nor step down - input is the same as output. just a big steel transformer with lots and lots of windings, with fat enough wire that if you draw 10 amps the filter doesn't warm up too much.

that is not the tool, also there are surge protectors and there are surge protectors.

that was some of what i worked on when i worked in corporate America (EMI filters, same technology, different name, big boxes for delivering clean power to radar systems).

companies like Lockheed often sell their old classified computer stuff. i got an EMP protected Mac 2cx from them about 12 years ago, it was one of the most thorough shielding jobs I've ever seen. from one of their classified or Top Secret military rooms. they used to sell all the old hardware from those rooms in company surplus sales, and there are (or were) some damn good deals.

i still have the EMI filter for the power supply from it. it plugs into the wall, and into the computer power supply. very heavy duty. something plugged into it, will not send load information to the "SmartMeter", other than the usual ampere number, like before.

[mrnhtbr2232]

You better hope another PG&E gas leak doesn't occur near your house...

::)

"Smartmeter" = NEWSPEAK


Read this morning that ratepayers will pay for them destroying the neighborhood in San Bruno -aren't they nice?

[Phoenix]

You better hope another PG&E gas leak doesn't occur near your house...

::)

"Smartmeter" = NEWSPEAK


Read this morning that ratepayers will pay for them destroying the neighborhood in San Bruno -aren't they nice?


The "investors" must have their dividends!

::)

PG&E = Profits Going Elsewhere

[7th trump]

This might not be a battle worth fighting... they sent me notice that they are going to replace mine soon too...


they actually turned off power to the building - while i was working on the computer. then turned it back on about 5 minutes later.

they can measure load but it is very possible to make sure that's all they measure.

one tool for this is a 60 Hz filter, something that only passes AC and then they can't see what your switching on & off - all they can know is the current, so they can measure kilowatt-hours, just like before.

a 60 Hz filter is like a big huge transformer that is neither step up nor step down - input is the same as output. just a big steel transformer with lots and lots of windings, with fat enough wire that if you draw 10 amps the filter doesn't warm up too much.

that is not the tool, also there are surge protectors and there are surge protectors.

that was some of what i worked on when i worked in corporate America (EMI filters, same technology, different name, big boxes for delivering clean power to radar systems).

companies like Lockheed often sell their old classified computer stuff. i got an EMP protected Mac 2cx from them about 12 years ago, it was one of the most thorough shielding jobs I've ever seen. from one of their classified or Top Secret military rooms. they used to sell all the old hardware from those rooms in company surplus sales, and there are (or were) some damn good deals.

i still have the EMI filter for the power supply from it. it plugs into the wall, and into the computer power supply. very heavy duty. something plugged into it, will not send load information to the "SmartMeter", other than the usual ampere number, like before.



Sorry to tell you this but what you are saying about a filter is complete bull. A 1:1 ratio transformer is not a filter all it does is isolate the power coming from the pole (transformer) from the house. It does no such thing as blocking what they can or cannot see. Theres no way they could tell what was plugged in the house before putting in the 1:1 tranformer.
You are only correct about the meter only reading current.
Thats all they want to know is how much current you are using. They already know the voltage as you have two 120volt legs of one phase coming off the delta or wye transformer. Voltage means absolutley nothing to them unless you have three phase going into the residence which I'm pretty sure you dont.
I have the smart meter installed in my house and one on the water also. I welcomed the meters as they do not estimate my bill any longer. Its is now down about 27% from what it was before the meter was installed.
If they estimate the usage theres no way you will ever get the bill reduced unless you can prove to them what the exact consumption of their power is....................your better off getting the meters installed unless you are ripping them off to begin with or doing something illegal.

[Hatha Sunahara]

Utilities have wanted these meters for a long time. They make meter reading much easier, and they plot out your energy use hourly. This will allow them to charge you separately for energy (kwh) and for peak capacity (kw). If you were to develop a flat load (no variations in peak over a 24 hour period) you might get a break on your total bill. The meter only measures the amount of power you are using hourly and records it. It's not a device designed for spying on you. It's actually a technological improvement over the old meters. You'd spend your energy better by avoiding use of a cell phone, which has a robust capacity to spy on you. Also, don't use Google, which also spies on you. These meters can't tell what you are doing with the electricity you buy, so you're safe.

Hatha

[MNeagle]

Not sure of all the technicals, but when we moved into this house, it had an 'energy saver' of some type installed. Sooo, when peak loads were straining the system, they could power on/off (cycle) my A/C use.

That 'feature' couldn't come off fast enough! It was miserable. I imagine they could do the same w/ heat.

[Glass]

Its a power rationing system. They will switch off your power or scale you back if you are consuming more than the socialist average. Lo the people on respirators or oxygen machines and such. All new appliances are smart wired so they can hook them up to their system and turn them off at will. As US industry and commerce is collapsing there should already be a lower demand than say 3 years ago so rationing is not really the reason for them.

As to load profiles. If someone were doing something illegal the load profile could be managed. Just go 24/7 before the meter goes in.

[Mouse]

Gotta love GSUS. There are so many cool people here. Load profiling, degree days, cooling days, potential transformers, current transformers. Lot of brains in here.

The whole smartmeter thing is to get the infrastructure in place to benchmark and target usage. Once they benchmark, they can further target norms and also apply projects to areas that are "over demand".

The biggest play in this peak load shaving where they can turn off your AC, your swimming pool pump and reg down your residence a few Kwh during the heavy load HLH of the day. Multiplied by millions (and PG&E is the largest monopoly utility in the US if not the planet), they can take that peak demand down several hundred megawatts and trade off your demand for peak usage to off peak, thus saving them the spread between say average 150/Mwh peak and 45/Mwh off-peak (LLH).

And all the costs will be billed to you over time, to allow them to save so much money. Utilities and energy also operate on the exponential curve, just like fiat, usage must grow to infinity or the whole game collapses. So you will be price forced into less than optimal energy agreements and you will find that your rates just keep increasing and increasing.

Some day a hairless monkey is going to get in his prius box after a long day of monkey fisting computers and conference rooms and he is going to take a diversion from his regular route home, and his puss box is going to run out of juice before he gets there. He parked at the company garage and they know on average the commute and the amount of juice in a battery that a identified car has. Monkey plugs up his junker in the AM, goes to work, the grid uses his batteries to power the grid during the day, assumes he won't leave till 7PM and short charges his car. He is stuck.

Aside from the paranoia aspect, these are just some nice clean ideas they have for energy. I think the smartmeters are all pretty much measure load by hour and ability to impact AC units and pool pumps for the residential, and of course solar if you have it. The communications networks that they are making are far more worrisome, but I don't see anything in that yet.

Obviously the load data would be convenient for criminals or law enforcement criminals. If you aren't home, it's going to be obvious, if you are using way too much power, it's going to be obvious.

I would line up a red barchetta at my uncles place while you still have the chance.

[Joe King]

You better hope another PG&E gas leak doesn't occur near your house...

::)

"Smartmeter" = NEWSPEAK


Read this morning that ratepayers will pay for them destroying the neighborhood in San Bruno -aren't they nice?
Of course. But that's only because ratepayers are the only ones that pay all the companies bills.
Same as the customers of any business do. Where else would the money come from?

[Joe King]

Also, as far as not granting access to the meter goes, I'm pretty sure that if you read the terms of service you agreed to by becoming a customer you will see that they have a Right to gain access to their equipment.

That's right, the meter is the "property" they are referring to. Not your yard.

So in this case you and the guy wanting to install the new meter where both speaking english, but you weren't using the same definition for all the words.

Trust me. You will get a new meter, and they do have a Right to access said meter. Either that or you may find out one day that you aren't a customer of theirs anymore.

If that happens, I hope you got a generator. But then the city will probably red-tag your house because of no utilities and it'll become illegal for you to live there.

Keep in mind that I do in fact support you in principle, but I'll guarentee you that very few of your neighbors will.
And therein lies the problem.
i.e. you'll be last man standing a/k/a an easy shot.

[Saul Mine]

I don't know what to think about your rant. You seem to know the words but you have no idea what they mean.

You pay for kilowatt hours, so it is the company's business to record your kilowatts and your hours. Duh!

The company has to generate those kilowatts at the exact time you need them, preferably with no brownouts and no surges. So they have to figure out when to expect you to turn things on or off. That is what we call "profile".

At the same time they would like to reduce expenses, such as paying some guy to walk through your neighborhood picking up diseases and getting bit by all the dogs. That means some kind of remotely readable meter.

If you feel like those things intrude on your privacy then what you need is a gas powered generator and solve all those technical problems yourself.

[cedarchopper]

If you are hooked up to utilities, you gave easements to the utility providers on your deed (the right of ingress and egress). You are getting ready for some schooling.

[7th trump]

All I can say is if any of you think an isolation 1:1 transformer will stop or block anybody from turning off the AC remotely you are nuts.
What ever signal (60 or 50hz) goes into the primary goes directly out the secondary. You can FM modulate the primary 60 or 50hz with a 100hz and you will see it in the secondary.
What you need to understand is what makes a smart appliance "smart" and figure out a way to bypass or block the signal because a isolation transformer is not going to do it.
A logical way to look at this is to understand that a signal can be induced onto the grid and if a "smart device" like an AC unit has in it circuitry to filter the signal from the power it can turn itself off and on by looking for the signal riding on the 120vac. This idea isnt new because a few years ago there was a company trying to use the power grid as a means to communicate if the internet would ever be turned off. Power companies protested this idea.
So if you want to stop the power companies from turning on and off your AC then research what makes a smart appliance "smart" and block the signal by using a notch filter to send the signal to ground.

[gunDriller]

i liked the old meter, with the little wheel just spinning around.