only one metric reflecting the trouble we're in

[midnight rambler]

Average age of farmers by county.
http://www.ncftn.org/aboutus/Average%20Age%20of%20Farmer%20by%20County/image

[Silver Shield]

yeah and when the dollar collapses and people can't get the garbage at the supermarket you will see millions of young men and women taking to the fields trying to make their living being farmers.

[G2Rad]

am I the onlly one who sees the hope?

I am surprized how optimistic the map is

what I see on the map is the begining stages of Amishes taking over the contry

with population doubling every 15 years they currently stand at a quoter of a million

in 30 years there will be a million of them

[chad]

i can give you some insight into that.

if you look at the pic, it says it was compiled by the us department of agriculture. usda gets it's numbers as to "who farms" from who is registered as the farm owner.

now days, most all family farms are incorporated for tax reason, and thus are "corporate farms." when this happens, they fall off the radar as being owned by a someone, instead they are owned by a corporation.

the only farms that show up as being owned by a person (and thus are on that map) are typically "end of the road" farms, where the guys kids didn't want to get in to farming, etc. it's typically an old guy farming xx acres.

this is a horribly skewed statistic. if you counted the number of family farms that show up as corporate farms because they are incorporated, that graph would change dramatically.

this is a huge issue right now in the midwest politically. people like to vilify "corporate famers," in this political landscape, but in reality, almost all farms are corporate. the family had to do it to avoid being taxed into oblivion.

when i was at ag days earlier this year, they told us that right now in wisconsin, at least 75% of family farms are incorporated. so 75% of farmers where i live wouldn't even be counted in that map.

[Gknowmx]

On top of Chad's comments, I find the narrow binning of <53.... 57> to smack of some agenda. What is the point of condensing the spectrum outside this window. figures don't lie, but liars figure... I smell something...

[kregener]

Naw, HERE (http://www.usdebtclock.org/) is the one that clearly depicts our demise.

[keehah]

Naw, HERE (http://www.usdebtclock.org/) is the one that clearly depicts our demise.


That webpage seems as bloated as the US debt.

I nominate this as the only one metric:
http://www.emeraldecocity.com/pictures/World%20Human%20Population%20Explosion.jpg

[Dogman]

Naw, HERE (http://www.usdebtclock.org/) is the one that clearly depicts our demise.


That webpage seems as bloated as the US debt.

I nominate this as the only one metric:
http://www.emeraldecocity.com/pictures/World%20Human%20Population%20Explosion.jpg



Just one other reason there will be some nasty wars fighting for resources. And even a bigger chance for WW.3
if anything to kill off the excess population. One thing war especially the big ones , great for population control. This is said tongue in cheek (Even if true)!

[bellevuebully]

According to what trusted branch of what trusted government??

[Horn]

On top of Chad's comments, I find the narrow binning of <53.... 57> to smack of some agenda. What is the point of condensing the spectrum outside this window. figures don't lie, but liars figure... I smell something...


Yeah the ones that are still left to be targeted for incorporation.

[keehah]

According to what trusted branch of what trusted government??


A 60's or 70's think tank said 500 million.

It really depends on how many resources anyone, and those who claim to represent him, consume. And how much 'excess' nature we want to keep.

[Spectrism]

Here is one command in the bible that is repeated.



Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.


And after that, God declared that He would provide the food.


I find it interesting also, that it appears as if our world has increased in size- and that even the length of the year went from 360 days to 365.24.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kL7qDeI05U

[keehah]

"Be Fruitful and Multiply" the most tragic translation error? (http://www.laetusinpraesens.org/musings/multiply.php)

St Augustine: "The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell."

The challenge to understanding increases if the multiply-divide polarity is framed in terms of the integrate-differentiate polarity. The latter might almost be orthogonal to the former, with differentiation carrying some of the sense of both multiply and divide. Here it is clearer that without adequate differentiation, integration is of lesser import.

How should the phrase "being fruitful and differentiate" then be understood? How far is it useful to go in differentiation before some degree of integration is necessary to maintain any sense of significance? Is it purely a coincidence that there is so much concern with integration in modern societies? But note the ambiguity around "discrimination", readily condemned as an attitude but yet who would want to associate with someone completely lacking in discrimination?

What is the process of coherence that a simplistic approach to "multiply" ignores? Is the desperate search for a new social order a symptom of the failure to discover the secret of dividing? Whether at the individual, community, national or global level, sustainable identity may be associated with the ambiguity of the multiply-divide, integrate-differentiate polarities. The vain attempt to associate it with a polar understanding is a recipe for dissatisfaction and disaster.

Perhaps stretching this exploration too far, there is a need to recognize that the desperate search for unity at every level of society cannot be achieved through multiplication and differentiation alone. Simplistically, unity is achieved by dividing by the number to which multiplication has brought us.

[Ponce]

Russia exports around 14% of what it produces........but not this year or next.........no rain.

Like this old Russian woman says "In the old days I had to stand in line for hours, but I used to get my bread, not now days".

The book that I mention before "The Famine Plot" in another post is a match to this story that I read today..........everything that the guy mentioned in his book (1987) is happening now.

[Horn]

Russia exports around 14% of what it produces........but not this year or next.........no rain.

Like this old Russian woman says "In the old days I had to stand in line for hours, but I used to get my bread, not now days".

The book that I mention before "The Famine Plot" in another post is a match to this story that I read today..........everything that the guy mentioned in his book (1987) is happening now.


One of the last good things that the U.S. has going for it, is its breadbasket. Many other nations across the globe are in far worse shape when it comes to that comparison.

I do know that the overall stores are down (or so its been publicized) but at least the U.S. does have the ability. Many other nations under this current global expansion are going to have trouble there if there are continued off seasons, and crisis.

What else is in "The Plot"?

[kregener]

Sorry if the flashing digits confused you...

Every person on the planet would fit in the state of Texas.

Over-population is gaining ground on Global Wanking as a control tool.

[Ponce]

Well Horn, the US sends 1/4 of what it produces to Russia and in return the Russians sent us a virus that destroys 70% of our food supply and then the US bullys Argentina and Brazil for their food........people are hoarding and there is a black market in the US that the government is trying to destroy and people killing each other for food......................and there is a crazy guy by the name of Ponce standing guard over a mountain of toilet paper with a shoot gun, a really crazy book........but true ;D

[osoab]

Who guys haven't brought up land prices.

What Chad said before is quite prevalent. I know of one operation in illinois that does 40-50 thousand acres.
Their cousins do about 12-18 thousand acres. I think their dad is around 5-10 thousand acres. All corporate in name.
Search around on the internet, you probably find them.

Now how do these farmes "get" all the land? Top dollar cash rent. I think some cash rent is coming in at 400-700 per acre. No worry no hassles for the land owner. Got 100 acres? Heres 70,000 big ones, we'll call you into the spring. Remeber, this is upfront with no idea how weather patterns will play out. One bad year and a lot of small banks and corporate farms will crash and burn.
(Side Note: The guys who have bid the cash rent market up are now trying to lowball the landowners.)

A large amount of investment money has also went into farmland. Not all of it is big bankers and the wall street types. Small business men who need a place to park it have been parking it in land. If 20 yrs ago you were buying at 1-2 thousand/acre, now you paying 4-10 thousand per acre. This is just farmland for farmland. I am not talking about future commercial or retail land.

I know of one person that spent 20,000/acre for 120 acres. It's just corn now and will be for awhile. I don't see how in this current economic reality that they will be able to get commercial space built there. This area is overgrown with new empty commercial space. 12 million for a corn field. I think bidding started at 7-10 thousand an acre.

A lot of the farmers that have gotten old, can't farm and have no family to take over are cash renting. It's also not about lack of family. It would be mighty tough to make it on 1000 acres alone. 100-200 acres forget it.

When the old man or woman kicks the bucket, someone will have to pay taxes. 1000 acres @ 4000/acre = 4,000,000 smackaroos. Over the death tax threashhol. Pay up now. This normally means sell it off.

Greedy progeny can't be overlooked too.

So how is a new guy supposed to start off with high equipment prices (even used), high land prices, high seed/fert prices?

Simple answer, they can't.

[G2Rad]

Who guys haven't brought up land prices.

What Chad said before is quite prevalent. I know of one operation in illinois that does 40-50 thousand acres.
Their cousins do about 12-18 thousand acres. I think their dad is around 5-10 thousand acres. All corporate in name.
Search around on the internet, you probably find them.

Now how do these farmes "get" all the land? Top dollar cash rent. I think some cash rent is coming in at 400-700 per acre. No worry no hassles for the land owner. Got 100 acres? Heres 70,000 big ones, we'll call you into the spring. Remeber, this is upfront with no idea how weather patterns will play out. One bad year and a lot of small banks and corporate farms will crash and burn.
(Side Note: The guys who have bid the cash rent market up are now trying to lowball the landowners.)

A large amount of investment money has also went into farmland. Not all of it is big bankers and the wall street types. Small business men who need a place to park it have been parking it in land. If 20 yrs ago you were buying at 1-2 thousand/acre, now you paying 4-10 thousand per acre. This is just farmland for farmland. I am not talking about future commercial or retail land.

I know of one person that spent 20,000/acre for 120 acres. It's just corn now and will be for awhile. I don't see how in this current economic reality that they will be able to get commercial space built there. This area is overgrown with new empty commercial space. 12 million for a corn field. I think bidding started at 7-10 thousand an acre.

A lot of the farmers that have gotten old, can't farm and have no family to take over are cash renting. It's also not about lack of family. It would be mighty tough to make it on 1000 acres alone. 100-200 acres forget it.

When the old man or woman kicks the bucket, someone will have to pay taxes. 1000 acres @ 4000/acre = 4,000,000 smackaroos. Over the death tax threashhol. Pay up now. This normally means sell it off.

Greedy progeny can't be overlooked too.

So how is a new guy supposed to start off with high equipment prices (even used), high land prices, high seed/fert prices?

Simple answer, they can't.



How big is the death tax?

[Horn]

Sorry if the flashing digits confused you...

Every person on the planet would fit in the state of Texas.

Over-population is gaining ground on Global Wanking as a control tool.


That not a very comforting statistic. Now if it were Pennsylvania or there abouts it would have been better looking. :oo-->

http://listverse.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/colours-hrh-doe-close-up.jpg.jpg



“In the event that I am reincarnated, I would like to return as a deadly virus, in order to contribute something to solve overpopulation.”

http://aftermathnews.wordpress.com/2007/10/12/prince-philip-told-mi6-to-murder-diana-and-lover/

[osoab]

How big is the death tax?


I don't know the accuracy of this cart. Found it on a quick search.

http://www.themoneyalert.com/Estate-Tax.html

I will not deny, though, that people could avoid the inheritance tax with a good account and probably spreadout "gifts" over a few years. Most of your small time farmers would probably not be doing this.


Look at the 2010 numbers in the last graphic.

For 4 million in inheritance:
780,800 + (45% of 2 million.) = 2,580,800. :boom

There goes the farm.

Edit
I took out the attempted images. I didn't realize they were not pics at the time. Check out the site

[G2Rad]

How big is the death tax?


I don't know the accuracy of this cart. Found it on a quick search.

http://www.themoneyalert.com/Estate-Tax.html

I will not deny, though, that people could avoid the inheritance tax with a good account and probably spreadout "gifts" over a few years. Most of your small time farmers would probably not be doing this.

http://www.themoneyalert.com/Estate-Tax.html
http://www.themoneyalert.com/Estate-Tax.html

Look at the 2010 numbers in the last graphic.

For 4 million in inheritance:
780,800 + (45% of 2 million.) = 2,580,800. :boom

There goes the farm.


thanks. that is huge.

Inflation can quiqly move many into “wealthy” category for the purpose of taxing

One more reason to pass bullions to the children, rather than get raped by the government on RE

[horseshoe3]

Sorry if the flashing digits confused you...

Every person on the planet would fit in the state of Texas.

Over-population is gaining ground on Global Wanking as a control tool.


That not a very comforting statistic. Now if it were Pennsylvania or there abouts it would have been better looking. :oo-->


Everyone in the world would fit in Texas with 1250 square feet each. If we are talking standing room only, everyone would fit on 20 miles square.

[horseshoe3]

The chart in the OP shows a pretty strong correlation of age with the difficulty of making a living farming in various parts of the country.

[TheNocturnalEgyptian]

If everyone was willing to live in a city with the same population density as los angeles, the entire world could live in one super-city which would fit inside of Alaska.