"Ring test" does NOT WORK for silver. Beware.

[Filthy Keynes]

I saw someone post on ZeroHedge that by tapping silver you can tell if it is real by the "ring" it gives off. This has been DEBUNKED by Jason Hommell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl9xWtphiK8

[osoab]

I don't really listen to Hommel. The guy has kind of gone loony.

[Gknowmx]

oh brother. this is about as stupid as it gets. Was that TheSkeptic?

So he cut through some solid chunk of metal. At best he "proved" it was solid. Where is the chemical analysis that suggests it is silver. that could have been solid bar of soap for all I know.

with the stampede in to PMs, I am afraid we will see more stupid S*&% like this passing as useful.

[hoarder]

Nothing bogus about his test, but the "ring test" does work. If it rings like silver it's silver.
What the ring test does not prove is that if a bar does not ring it isn't silver. Some perfectly good silver bars don't ring. I had some 100 ounce bars that didn't ring and the dealer I sold them to didn't balk. I had about 50 of them years ago and only 2 didn't ring. I sold them first.

This was beat to death on GIM1.
It's a source of great nuisance to dealers, having to explain to skeptical customers that a "dull thud" bar is good.

[Bullion_Bob]

What also works at 10oz's and over is to hold a bar really close to your right nipple for a few moments. The hairs should raise ever so slightly and produce a faint tingling sensation.

If you don't experience this phenomena, my condolences, maybe try lower down.

[Gaillo]

What also works at 10oz's and over is to hold a bar really close to your right nipple for a few moments. The hairs should raise ever so slightly and produce a faint tingling sensation.

If you don't experience this phenomena, my condolences, maybe try lower down.


Ah yes... The "hardon test". I know that I typically get wood when handling 100 Oz. bars! ;D

[Gknowmx]

Nothing bogus about his test,


Nothing useful either.

I agree with you that his initial assumption is poorly based, but his methods to "prove" that this was real silver is worse than useless because it is totally misleading and immoral given his status. What a tool.

[hoarder]

I agree with you that his initial assumption is poorly based, but his methods to "prove" that this was real silver is worse than useless because it is totally misleading and immoral given his status. What a tool.
Since not ringing does not prove it isn't silver there is no cause for alarm. The reason he cut it in half is to show it isn't a silver bar that was drilled and filled with lead.
Since most if not all bogus 100 ounce silver bars fit the latter description, the test was more than adequate.
I suppose it would be possible for someone to pour a lead bar and plate it with silver (not sure if it's even possible), cutting it in half would reveal the grey color and softness.

[Dogman]

Had some sae's that sounded flat, but my coin shop is happy to see me come in with them.

[mick silver]

Nothing bogus about his test, but the "ring test" does work. If it rings like silver it's silver.
What the ring test does not prove is that if a bar does not ring it isn't silver. Some perfectly good silver bars don't ring. I had some 100 ounce bars that didn't ring and the dealer I sold them to didn't balk. I had about 50 of them years ago and only 2 didn't ring. I sold them first.

This was beat to death on GIM1. i also like the ring test . it alway work for me too
It's a source of great nuisance to dealers, having to explain to skeptical customers that a "dull thud" bar is good.
i also like the ring test . it alway work for me too

[keehah]

What about the video shows the ring test does not work?
I saw no ringing bar that was not silver.

Thus the proposition if a bar rings it is silver is unchallenged.

Better a false negative than a false positive!

In fact it offers the 'good' news that even if your bar don't ring, it may still be silver.

Filthy Keynes you need to change your thread title because it is wrong, this mistake slights silver investing and this will not stand Sir! ;D

[Edit: I posted before reading the thread. I like the way you think Hoarder. :D ]

[etc]

works with sterling coinage, an unmistakable ring

[Sparky]

No offer of an explanation at to why the vast majority of silver bars ring, and yet some do not? Let's talk some physics here.

[keehah]

Fun guitar whammy bar harmonic tricks ala Dimebag Darrell Van Halen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4iBXFJIcJw

As for lumps of it, when hit
it implodes, then tries to return to its resting position, but, again, because of momentum, continues past that position, etc., until decay causes it to stop...

Many objects, when hit, struck, plucked or hammered will vibrate. When you drop a penny on a hard floor, it will begin to vibrate. When you pluck a guitar string, it will vibrate. When each of these objects vibrates, they tend to vibrate at a specific frequency, their "natural" frequency. If that frequency is within range of human hearing and loud enough, you will be able to hear the sound vibrations being produced.

All objects have a natural frequency or group of frequencies at which they like to vibrate. Some objects vibrate or ring at a single natural frequency, while others have many "modes" of vibration and can vibrate at any or all of those modes of vibration. A flute or radio antenna tends to vibrate at a single frequency. Other objects, say for example a pencil, will vibrate in many modes, giving it the distinctive sound of a pencil. Some objects, like the string of a guitar, have a number of modes of vibrations that are all mathematically related, as Pythagoras discovered. A guitar string, with its related modes will sound more "musical" than a metal plate, which has unrelated vibration modes thereby making it sound more annoying and unmusical. http://www.sound-physics.com/Sound/Resonance-NaturalFrequency/

As for why less ring with lead, perhaps not just that solid lead has different harmonics, but the poured lead (after cooling) is not bonded to the silver, thus the bar may ring as a duller, lower harmonics hollow bar. And if not hollow cracked or crystalline.

This shows how a vibrating bar may be moving.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9GBf8y0lY0
Empty surface areas are vibrating up and down.
At 20 seconds I expect that break was to change plate thickness. Could not get as full a human hearing range vibration frequency with just one thickness plate.

Enough BS for two posts.

[Twisted Titan]

The density of lead is closest to silver. It's density is 11.36g/ml. A 100 troy ounce lead bar takes up approximately 275.7ml of water. Since silver is lighter than lead, a 100 troy ounce silver bar occupies 22.3ml more space than a silver plated lead bar.

[Sparky]

...
As for why less ring with lead, perhaps not just that solid lead has different harmonics, but the poured lead (after cooling) is not bonded to the silver, thus the bar may ring as a duller, lower harmonics hollow bar. And if not hollow cracked or crystalline.
...


Yes, but why does some silver ring and some does not?

Interesting video though.

[madfranks]

No offer of an explanation at to why the vast majority of silver bars ring, and yet some do not? Let's talk some physics here.


The only clue I came up with in watching that video was that the bar with the dull ring was a poured bar, and the nicest ring came from the perfectly square extruded bar. I'm no physicist, but perhaps the concave and non-uniform shape of the poured bar keeps the sound waves from amplifying in unison throughout the bar. Kind of like how a perfectly cut diamond sparkles as it reflects the light uniformly throughout, while a poorly cut and mis-shaped diamond looks more dull.

[Spectrism]

I believe that a key part of a "ring" is the hardness of the metal and its physical size/shape. A brittle metal in the shape of a sphere will likely not ring. But put that into a long bar or a bell shape and you will hear its tone.

A thick bar will not flex as much as a long skinny bar. Noise is the vibration of the air causing waves to reach our ears. If there is no vibration there is no sound.

A bar that is contaminated with another material or is not evenly homogenous- (impartially melted & cooled with chunks in it) may cause a dampening of any vibration. Another possibility is the speed of cooling- or tempering.

[Filthy Keynes]

A tuning fork "rings" but it's make out of steel.

It's the SHAPE of the object which causes it to ring more than anything else. Even wood rings (a wooden xylophone for example)

http://photo.net.au/music/woodXylophone.jpg

[Twisted Titan]

I don't really listen to Hommel. The guy has kind of gone loony.



How has he been since he got his silver stolen????

[keehah]

http://www.silverinsights.com/_pages/_uses/musical.html

Silver is and has been used for making many present day and historical musical instruments. High quality flutes and trumpets are made of solid silver, while student model and larger brass instruments are silver plated, and woodwinds and other instruments frequently have silver or silver coated key mechanisms. The silver adds a softer, richer timbre or tone quality to the sound produced by these instruments, and can be polished to a high shine.

http://www.scienceprojectideas.co.uk/detecting-fake-silver-conductivity-metal.html

To find out if a spoon is real silver, put it in a mug with a similar solid silver spoon. Put a dab of butter on the end of each spoon, and stick something to the butter, for example a dried pea, a grain of rice, or a small piece of dried pasta. Pour boiling water into the mug, and see which item drops off first. If the pea falls off the silver spoon before the unknown spoon, the unknown spoon probably isn't solid silver. This works because silver conducts heat more quickly than any other metal, so melts the butter first and the pea, grain of rice or piece of pasta falls off.

How is Heat Conducted?

When a solid is heated, the molecules start to vibrate more. The vibrating molecules knock into the next set of molecules, and the next, and the next, passing the vibration (heat energy) on, and so passing the heat along the solid.

[Bullion_Bob]

In other news, Hommel has taken to cutting up actual bells wondering why they too also ring.

[Twisted Titan]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.silverinsights.com/_pages/_uses/musical.html

Quote
Silver is and has been used for making many present day and historical musical instruments. High quality flutes and trumpets are made of solid silver, while student model and larger brass instruments are silver plated, and woodwinds and other instruments frequently have silver or silver coated key mechanisms. The silver adds a softer, richer timbre or tone quality to the sound produced by these instruments, and can be polished to a high shine.




I never knew this........... I would love to see a solid silver flute


I think I'd pass out.


T

[keehah]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_concert_flute

The modern professional concert flute is generally made of silver, gold or combinations of the two; a few of the most expensive flutes are fabricated from platinum or palladium. Student instruments are usually made of nickel-silver alloy, composed of nickel, copper, and zinc, (also known as "German silver") or nickel- or silver-plated brass. Headjoints are generally of the same metals, but may be made of wood. Wooden flutes were far more common before the early 20th century. The silver flute was introduced by Theobald Boehm in 1847 but did not become common until later in the 20th century. Wm. S. Haynes, a flute manufacturer in Boston, told Georges Barrere, an eminent flutist, that in 1905 he made one silver flute to every 100 wooden flutes but in the 1930s, he made one wooden flute to every 100 silver flutes. Today the silver flute is still far more popular than the wooden flute and is accepted as the standard in most symphony orchestras.

Flute Metal 'Ring' Test :)
Start at 4:15.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_2uCJpHOjA

[Light]

...
As for why less ring with lead, perhaps not just that solid lead has different harmonics, but the poured lead (after cooling) is not bonded to the silver, thus the bar may ring as a duller, lower harmonics hollow bar. And if not hollow cracked or crystalline.
...


Yes, but why does some silver ring and some does not?

Interesting video though.


Small cracks that form during the cooling of large bars.