Question about health insurance "requiring" SS#

[lapis]

My husband's work sent a bunch of health insurance paperwork from the insurance company that we have to fill out in order for them to cover my daughter and me under their plan.

On one of the forms it says:

NOTE: As required by federal law, all employers, insurers, and plan administrators are required to share eligibility information (including Social Security Numbers) with the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS). [Their bolding, not mine.]

But when I called the company that's administering the plan, they couldn't find that federal "law."

One of the supervisors said my husband's work is requiring the SS#s.

So today I called his work's insurance eligibility office, and they also couldn't find the "law."

The person I talked to then said it was the CMS that was requiring it, and to "go look on their website."

Well, I'd done numerous searches on the CMS site, and couldn't find it. I did that before calling anyone up.

I told her since HER department is saying that a "federal law" is requiring this, someone there ought to have a copy of that law on hand. But it seems pretty obvious they don't. She was supposed to call me back, and now I think her office is closed for the day.

Does anyone know anything about this? I'm very reluctant to give out my SS# unless absolutely necessary. Not to mention I've been the victim of identity theft four times already.

[sirgonzo420]

Tell them you don't have a number.

There is no law that compels you to "have" one.... besides, even if you do "have one", you still don't really "have" it... the number/card is property of the SSA.

So, truthfully, no man, woman, or child has a Social Security Number.

[lapis]

I don't know if that would work, since I already told the rep. that I didn't want to give it out. ;)

[Dogman]

Found this but it is tied to Medicare

The Mandatory Insurer Reporting Law (Section 111 of Public Law 110-173), effective January 1, 2010, requires insurers to tell Medicare about all Medicare beneficiaries they provide coverage for. This means if either you or someone covered by your group health plan is eligible for Medicare benefits, the insurer must collect the SSN for reporting to Medicare. For more on this law, see: http://www.cms.gov/MandatoryInsRep/ (http://www.cms.gov/MandatoryInsRep/)

http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs10a-SSNFAQ.htm

[lapis]

Right. But none of us are beneficiaries. So does this apply to us?

Thanks for the reply! I'll go take a look at the links.

[iOWNme]

I can tell you that sirGonzo is correct to a point, but heres the deal: There is no Law that says you must have one.

BUT

ANY entity your dealing with that asks you for this number IS required to get it from you, as they have begged (License) the Gov for 'permission' to operate. That 'permission' comes with the 'Benefit' of having to have every single client have this number.

In short, all business with licenses', have consented to National Socialism, hence if you want to have the 'benefit' of NS, you will have to have a special little number you carry around every where you go.

The Supreme Court ruled on this in around 2000. You cannot sue a company or even the person themselves, for the business is required BY LAW, to ask you for it, and if you dont have one, you cannot participate in their 'Benefit'.

So you can step outside the system and not have a number. But you cannot go into the Matrix and function like you do have one. Doesnt work that way.

[lapis]

I suspect as much.

But it really chaps my hide when organizations invoke "federal law" and expect people to fall into place out of fear.

[sirgonzo420]

I don't know if that would work, since I already told the rep. that I didn't want to give it out. ;)


It'll work if you stand your ground.

I was at a doctor's appointment with my wife, and they asked for her social security number. I informed the staff there that we would not be giving them any such number.

They told me it was required.

I asked what they did for people with no numbers.

They said "everybody has a number!".

I said "not everybody... what do you do for people with no numbers, who perhaps, don't speak english?".

They said that there weren't many, but they had a different system.

I suggested that they use that different system for my wife, as we would not be giving them any "social security number".

They agreed.


You just gotta stand your ground and not let anyone separate you from your rights.

[hoarder]

One of the reasons to have a SSN is to positively identify the patient for the benefit of insurance companies.
If I owned 90% of the insurance companies I would want everyone to change insurance companies regularly so that everyone's health issues are "pre-existing conditions" which are not covered. that way I could collect all the premiums without paying any benefits.

[7th trump]

My husband's work sent a bunch of health insurance paperwork from the insurance company that we have to fill out in order for them to cover my daughter and me under their plan.

On one of the forms it says:

NOTE: As required by federal law, all employers, insurers, and plan administrators are required to share eligibility information (including Social Security Numbers) with the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS). [Their bolding, not mine.]

But when I called the company that's administering the plan, they couldn't find that federal "law."

One of the supervisors said my husband's work is requiring the SS#s.

So today I called his work's insurance eligibility office, and they also couldn't find the "law."

The person I talked to then said it was the CMS that was requiring it, and to "go look on their website."

Well, I'd done numerous searches on the CMS site, and couldn't find it. I did that before calling anyone up.

I told her since HER department is saying that a "federal law" is requiring this, someone there ought to have a copy of that law on hand. But it seems pretty obvious they don't. She was supposed to call me back, and now I think her office is closed for the day.

Does anyone know anything about this? I'm very reluctant to give out my SS# unless absolutely necessary. Not to mention I've been the victim of identity theft four times already.

If the health insurance is tied to Social Security (medicare and medicaid), then yes, you have to disclose the number.
As far as finding the statute................look into title 42 under welfare or maybr Title 5 (5USC 552).
And no if you have a number issued and you call or write the SSA stating you withdraw your consent and would rather exercise all your protections of the Bill of Rights you do not need to disclose the number but dont expect any federal health insurance benefits. You are on your own and rely on God for many things like common sense, guidence and intelligence to act accordingly.
Remember Americans were on their own before SS was enacted. So if you do something stupid to cause a serious illness or lose an arm or leg you are going to pay in full or simply die out of stupidity and carelessness.
You are your own responsibility and nobody elses.

[k-os]

I was asked for my SSN at a dentist the other day, and I just left it blank. Nobody cared.

I was asked for my SSN at my regular dentist a few months ago, and I just left it blank. The lady pressed me for it, but I told her I didn't want to give it to her, and she said "OK, I'll just put in 999-99-9999, nobody cares anyway".

I just don't give it out anymore, and when they ask, I say it's for security purposes - identity theft protection and all of that. Period. SSN was never intended to be an "identification number", so don't let anyone use it in that way . . . if at all possible, of course.

[Half Sense]

My SS card is one of the old ones, that says:

FOR SOCIAL SECURITY AND TAX PURPOSES - NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION

I show it to them while covering the number and ask what are the tax implications of having my teeth cleaned for cash?

[DMac]

I was asked for my SSN at a dentist the other day, and I just left it blank. Nobody cared.

I was asked for my SSN at my regular dentist a few months ago, and I just left it blank. The lady pressed me for it, but I told her I didn't want to give it to her, and she said "OK, I'll just put in 999-99-9999, nobody cares anyway".

I just don't give it out anymore, and when they ask, I say it's for security purposes - identity theft protection and all of that. Period. SSN was never intended to be an "identification number", so don't let anyone use it in that way . . . if at all possible, of course.


I've adopted that tactic lately at doctor/dentist offices as well. I fill in my name and basic insurance info (and write no medical allergies) and leave all the rest of those forms blank.

Not one doc or secretary has ever mentioned it to me that I need to fill out the forms in total.

Screw em. I only give out enough info as required for the task at hand.

[lapis]

I was asked for my SSN at a dentist the other day, and I just left it blank. Nobody cared.

SSN was never intended to be an "identification number", so don't let anyone use it in that way . . . if at all possible, of course.



I've adopted that tactic lately at doctor/dentist offices as well. I fill in my name and basic insurance info (and write no medical allergies) and leave all the rest of those forms blank.

I usually do that at the doctors' offices too, and like k-os mentioned, no one says anything.

Still no phone call.

And I have the CMS website page open and ready for the phone call...which I suspect will never come.

The deadline to turn in the forms is next week. I wonder how long I should wait before sending them in?

I may just send them in with what I filled out: "N/A. Please assign an I.D. number."

[lapis]

My SS card is one of the old ones, that says:

FOR SOCIAL SECURITY AND TAX PURPOSES - NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION

I show it to them while covering the number and ask what are the tax implications of having my teeth cleaned for cash?

According to the SSA site the cards had this legend from 1946 to 1972. But after that they removed it for "design changes.":

http://www.ssa.gov/history/hfaq.html
Q21: When did Social Security cards bear the legend "NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION"?

On another page it says that the SSA only gives out numbers as needed to other government agencies.

For non-government agencies, it says:

You should be very careful about sharing your number and card to protect against misuse of your number. Giving your number is voluntary even when you are asked for the number directly. If requested, you should ask:
• Why your number is needed;
• How your number will be used;
• What happens if you refuse; and
• What law requires you to give your number. [But there is no law, is there?]
The answers to these questions can help you decide if you want to give your Social Security number. The decision is yours.

Doesn't the last sentence seem like a cop-out? It should flat out be illegal for non-government agencies to use the number.

I had to call my husband's company since I didn't get a call back, and they said the legal department is looking into it since I'm not the only one to ask about this.

So that's good, but now I wonder if they'll change the wording on the forms from "federal law requires" to "we want your # or else we won't give you health insurance."

[Twisted Titan]

I was asked for my SSN at a dentist the other day, and I just left it blank. Nobody cared.

I was asked for my SSN at my regular dentist a few months ago, and I just left it blank. The lady pressed me for it, but I told her I didn't want to give it to her, and she said "OK, I'll just put in 999-99-9999, nobody cares anyway".

I just don't give it out anymore, and when they ask, I say it's for security purposes - identity theft protection and all of that. Period. SSN was never intended to be an "identification number", so don't let anyone use it in that way . . . if at all possible, of course.



That is exactly what I do and one time I was pressed and I said I was the victim of ID theft and It is still in litigation with the company that hired the employees that compromised my information..

The paperwork went through as is.

Nobody is trying to lose a job nowadays.


T

[lapis]

That is exactly what I do and one time I was pressed and I said I was the victim of ID theft and It is still in litigation with the company that hired the employees that compromised my information..
T
[/quote]

That's a good answer!

I actually HAVE had my identity stolen. FOUR TIMES. Which is another reason I'm sensitive about this.

Someone said I could get some kind of ID# from the IRS, but I don't think that's a real solution.

[Twisted Titan]

That is exactly what I do and one time I was pressed and I said I was the victim of ID theft and It is still in litigation with the company that hired the employees that compromised my information..
T


That's a good answer!

I actually HAVE had my identity stolen. FOUR TIMES. Which is another reason I'm sensitive about this.

Someone said I could get some kind of ID# from the IRS, but I don't think that's a real solution.
[/quote]


Screw that ........

You will have no recourse when they screw up your information and if there is a mistake they will still go after you.

Anybody remeber shellyugeste???

She was a victim if ID theft with somebody that was working under her SS for years and even when she came to IRS with a police report verifying her ID was stolen they still said she was responsible for the unpaid Federal Taxes of the ID criminial


DO NOT ASK THE IRS FOR ANYTHING......... ESPECIALLY "HELP"

[SeekYeFirst]

My dentist wants your ssn and copy of ID. If you say you are a cash pt he doesn't want either one and will return or shred the copies if made already. Most(?) ins companies ID by the ssn but they can by the name and birthdate. He has had people on medicaid attempt fraud by claiming to be someone they're not.