Local Coin Dealer says to use Schedule D for Collectibles Tax

[gunDriller]

I was talking to a very knowledgeable & experienced coin dealer in town and trying to find out how to report the collectibles tax.

He said you just fill out the Schedule D, for example

bought 1 Maple April 2010, paid $1200

sold 1 Maple October 2010, received $1400

capital gain is $200 and it is a short term capital gain. if it was a longer term capital gain, an asset held longer than a year, some of that is exempt from taxation. That number goes somewhere on the Form 1040.

also, if a person has a tax-loss carryforward from a previous year, that is applicable & counts against some capital gains.

i kept asking, "what about the 28% tax on collectibles?"

He said it's a straight Schedule D. I'm pretty sure he knows what he's talking about.


But, I know you guys know what you're talking about too. When board members here talk about capital gains taxes on PM sales, mostly what I hear is talk of the 28% tax.

( I will apologize pre-emptively for bringing up such a downer. )

What is the right form to use, besides no form ?

[midnight rambler]

Take a blank piece of paper and write on it "Cram it, clown". Submit that.

[horseshoe3]

I think it is the Schedule D. BUT, in the instructions on asset classes, it specifically states that bullion is a collectible and should be listed on the appropriate line.

See line 18:

18 Enter the amount, if any, from line 7 of the 28% Rate Gain Worksheet on page D-8 of the
instructions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

And the accompanying table:

1. Enter the total of all collectibles gain or (loss) from items you reported on line 8, column (f), of Schedules D and D-1 1.
2. Enter as a positive number the amount of any section 1202 exclusion you reported on line 8, column (f), of Schedules
D and D-1, for which you excluded 50% of the gain, plus 2⁄3 of any section 1202 exclusion you reported on line 8,
column (f), of Schedules D and D-1, for which you excluded 60% of the gain . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2.
3. Enter the total of all collectibles gain or (loss) from Form 4684, line 4 (but only if Form 4684, line 15, is more than
zero); Form 6252; Form 6781, Part II; and Form 8824 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3.
4. Enter the total of any collectibles gain reported to you on:
• Form 1099-DIV, box 2d; • Form 2439, box 1d; and } . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4.
• Schedule K-1 from a partnership, S corporation, estate, or trust.
5. bEonxte 1r 1y,o cuor dleo nCg-t.e.rm. .c.ap. i.ta.l .lo. s.s. c.a.rr.yo. v.e.rs. .fr.o.m. S. c.h.e.du. l.e .D. ,. l.in.e. 1.4., .an. d. .S.ch.e.d.u.le. K. -.1. (.F.o.rm. . 1.0.4.1)., . . . . . . . . . . . . 5.( )
6. If Schedule D, line 7, is a (loss), enter that (loss) here. Otherwise, enter -0- . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6.( )
7. Combine lines 1 through 6. If zero or less, enter -0-. If more than zero, also enter this amount on
Schedule D, line 18 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7.

From the instructions for line 18:

Collectibles include works of art, rugs, antiques, metals (such as gold, silver and platinum bullion), gems, stamps, coins, alchoholic beverages, and certain other tangible property.

Pardon my cut and paste hack job, but the info comes from IRS pdfs.

[horseshoe3]

I like midnight rambler's idea better, but the best idea is to just keep a low profile.

[Twisted Titan]

.............................

[Spectrism]

Don't play with their fake money.

If you don't owe Caesar anything, then don't pay Caesar anything.

I am amazed that people would take increasing numbers in a depreciating currency and hope to pay MORE taxes on a simple exchange of what is considered equal value at the time.

I think any tax investigator would be too kindly treated if given a piece of toilet paper. I would definitely think that recycled tp would be the answer.

[Gaillo]

Which form do you use when your boat sinks? ???

[Twisted Titan]

Don't play with their fake money.

If you don't owe Caesar anything, then don't pay Caesar anything.

I am amazed that people would take increasing numbers in a depreciating currency and hope to pay MORE taxes on a simple exchange of what is considered equal value at the time.

I think any tax investigator would be too kindly treated if given a piece of toilet paper. I would definitely think that recycled tp would be the answer.



QFT

I say it all the time.



Did you pay taxes when you earned the money to buy it?? YES

Did you pay taxes when you actually bought it ?Yes

Did you pay taxes to have it shipped to you if you bought online?? Yes


So you if you payed taxes three times WTF makes you think you have to pay when you sell it???


On the day I elect to divest ALL...... I REPEAT ALL PROCEEDS will be going to me and my family.

Where did I learned this??

I learned from the best.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLWmeuwL-UI

[Spectrism]

I don't recall seeing that 1934 film on Rothschild.



Also- consider that the only reason for a price increase in gold is because the dollar was devalued. The government stole the value through inflation (hidden tax) and now they want to tax you on their theft!!!!

[zap]

I am so glad I never let anyone talk me into buying gold or silver, that is alot of tax to pay, I'll save my money at the bank in CD's thankyou! 8)

[Sparky]

Schedule D, Line 18.

18 Enter the amount, if any, from line 7 of the 28% Rate Gain Worksheet on page D-8 of the
instructions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

A collectibles gain or loss is any long-term gain or deductible long-term loss from the sale or exchange of a collectible that is a capital asset.

Collectibles include works of art, rugs, antiques, metals (such as gold, silver, and platinum bullion), gems, stamps, coins, alcoholic beverages, and certain other tangible property.

[silversurfer]

I am so glad I never let anyone talk me into buying gold or silver, that is alot of tax to pay, I'll save my money at the bank in CD's thankyou! 8)


nub

wrestler e3xtrlodinair

I supported him 100%

you zap are an imposter

[zap]

Your pretty thick aren't ya?

[silversurfer]

you are an imposter

[zap]

I think your stoned.

[silversurfer]

no but

I'll give you benefit of doubt

for now

[zap]

no but

I give you benefit of dough t

for now


You know what, I have been married to the man since I was 22, I don't have to prove anything to anybody.

If you want to know something just ask.

Edit; Thats a lie we lived together til I was 29 then got married.

[zap]

I don't care if you believe me or not. ;)

[silversurfer]

I don't care if you believe me or not. ;)

and I don't care either

[zap]

If you buy/sell silver, gold, rugs or art, keep your mouth shut, always cash and no paper trail. :D

[Filthy Keynes]

If you buy/sell silver, gold, rugs or art, keep your mouth shut, always cash and no paper trail. :D



It would be better if you flaunted it in front of the GOVERN-MEN and then took them to the gallows. Remember, as scared as you are of them, they are 1,000,000 X as scared of YOU! GOVERN-MEN don't produce anything and they know it. They are parasites and they know it! You think Zbignev Brazinsky is having an orgasm? Not likely. He's probably trembing in his boots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDBlABD01U0

[zap]

Why would you do that? so you could get audited, pay some more taxes ?

Don't stick your nose out there play the game and keep your stash secret.

[silversurfer]

something fishy about zap


def not nub wrestler

x

[Book]

Where did I learned this??

I learned from the best.



http://ceoworld.biz/ceo/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/ruth-madoff-bernard-ponzi-scheme.jpg

I imagine Madoff and his wife also used Schedule D to file on that "still missing" $65 Billion.

:)

[zap]

something fishy about zap


def not nub wrestler

x




SO are you trolling or just a genius?

No I am not the Nub, wrestler, but I did wrestle him down more then once. :D

[silversurfer]

yes I am just a genius

[zap]

yes I am just a genius







so then are you Philo, Wildcard or Phoenix?

[Gaillo]

something fishy about zap


def not nub wrestler

x




Goodbye, silversurfer... we'll be seeing your sorry, pathetic troll @$$ in a month or so - or maybe never. That's up to JQP at this point.

What kind of sorry-ass P.O.S. "man" attacks a grieving widow by bringing up her dead husband's forum name in a series of confrontational posts? ??? >:(

[kiffertom]

what if someone gave you a gold coin? its value would be at the time given correct?

[kregener]

You are dealing with the WRONG broker, to be sure GunDriller.

[Trinity]

I'm going to call the I.R.S. Monday to find out exactly what to do. Maybe I will ask the person I get in touch with to open an account here to explain exactly what we should do! Good Idea?

[Dogman]

I'm going to call the I.R.S. Monday to find out exactly what to do. Maybe I will ask the person I get in touch with to open an account here to explain exactly what we should do! Good Idea?
:ROFL:


You sure like to stir the pot or at least shake it up! :lol

Must be a slow day or boring, aye ?



:ROFL:

[gunDriller]

If you buy/sell silver, gold, rugs or art, keep your mouth shut, always cash and no paper trail. :D



but if you sell your collectibles to buy a piece of real estate, e.g. to come up with a quick $10K or $15K for a down payment, you will receive a check & that will be deposited into a bank account.

in that situation it might be best to declare the capital gains.

[midnight rambler]

If you buy/sell silver, gold, rugs or art, keep your mouth shut, always cash and no paper trail. :D



but if you sell your collectibles to buy a piece of real estate, e.g. to come up with a quick $10K or $15K for a down payment, you will receive a check & that will be deposited into a bank account.

in that situation it might be best to declare the capital gains.


Don't you think it's worthwhile to find a way to get off the radar entirely?

[Trinity]

I'm going to call the I.R.S. Monday to find out exactly what to do. Maybe I will ask the person I get in touch with to open an account here to explain exactly what we should do! Good Idea?
:ROFL:


You sure like to stir the pot or at least shake it up! :lol

Must be a slow day or boring, aye ?



:ROFL:


I just like kidding around.

[zap]

As long as said money has been in a bank account for 6 months prior to using it for a down payment , there is no problem.

[Dogman]

I'm going to call the I.R.S. Monday to find out exactly what to do. Maybe I will ask the person I get in touch with to open an account here to explain exactly what we should do! Good Idea?
:ROFL:


You sure like to stir the pot or at least shake it up! :lol

Must be a slow day or boring, aye ?



:ROFL:


I just like kidding around.


Yea! ;) I was thinking of the silent collective gasps and awsh*ts across this boards membership if something like that did happen. ;D


:plll

[Twisted Titan]

If you buy/sell silver, gold, rugs or art, keep your mouth shut, always cash and no paper trail. :D



but if you sell your collectibles to buy a piece of real estate, e.g. to come up with a quick $10K or $15K for a down payment, you will receive a check & that will be deposited into a bank account.

in that situation it might be best to declare the capital gains.



When you sell ........ ONLY SELL FOR CASH

Will you get Top Dollar? NO

But that is the Speed of Funds and 100% privacy fees factored in.


T

[Twisted Titan]

As long as said money has been in a bank account for 6 months prior to using it for a down payment , there is no problem.


With the onset of capital controls I surely see this going the way of the Do-Do Bird

Something like the 1500 euro cap is a done deal imo.

T

[Filthy Keynes]

As long as said money has been in a bank account for 6 months prior to using it for a down payment , there is no problem.


With the onset of capital controls I surely see this going the way of the Do-Do Bird

Something like the 1500 euro cap is a done deal imo.

T



You will get a lot less cash for your gold because cash is M0. You may only get 1/10th the value of your gold if you trade it for cash.

Imagine you want to buy a farm worth $1million with your gold - you will have to find 1,000,000 dollar bills somewhere, and there just aren't that many available. Either the Fed has to PRINT (ie, really PRINT) them or you are out of luck. The thing is, our money is electronic so what happens if the Fed does not increase M0?!

If that is the case it would be better to buy the farm for ONE DOLLAR and then trade the gold under the table to the seller. That's BLACK MARKET.

[Twisted Titan]

As long as said money has been in a bank account for 6 months prior to using it for a down payment , there is no problem.


With the onset of capital controls I surely see this going the way of the Do-Do Bird

Something like the 1500 euro cap is a done deal imo.

T



You will get a lot less cash for your gold because cash is M0. You may only get 1/10th the value of your gold if you trade it for cash.

Imagine you want to buy a farm worth $1million with your gold - you will have to find 1,000,000 dollar bills somewhere, and there just aren't that many available. Either the Fed has to PRINT (ie, really PRINT) them or you are out of luck. The thing is, our money is electronic so what happens if the Fed does not increase M0?!

If that is the case it would be better to buy the farm for ONE DOLLAR and then trade the gold under the table to the seller. That's BLACK MARKET.





No arguments on that one.

What's good is that holding physical gold and silver coin you get the abilty to have the most favorable terms made available.

Terms that those trapped in paper instruments could only dream of.

T

[kregener]

I sold gold and silver and got 10 cents under spot.

??

[gunDriller]

Don't you think it's worthwhile to find a way to get off the radar entirely?


yes.

in this case, the cost of that would be to wait 6 months, maybe a year, to focus & save up the funds.

as far as getting off the radar completely, if you're paying property taxes, your info goes into databases and your phone number can be found, even if it's unlisted.

that's something i'd like to find out more about - how do you set up a trust to purchase real estate in the name of the trust.

if you Do-it-Yourself for Electricity, and use a prepaid cell-phone (my Safeway cell-phone doesn't work), and find a neighbor who lets you poach on their wireless Internet (and kick in some $ to help pay your way) ... just some things that come to mind for maintaining one's privacy.

[messianicdruid]

I want to know what form to use for Capital Losses. The FRN's I've been collecting in my savings account will only buy a fraction of what they would buy when I put them in there {counting the interest I've received}. The "hidden tax" has not been hidden very well.

If I had bought a Rembrandt at an auction for 10 million, ten years ago, and sold it today, at auction, for 9 million; is that a Capital Loss?

[gunDriller]

I want to know what form to use for Capital Losses. The FRN's I've been collecting in my savings account will only buy a fraction of what they would buy when I put them in there {counting the interest I've received}. The "hidden tax" has not been hidden very well.

If I had bought a Rembrandt at an auction for 10 million, ten years ago, and sold it today, at auction, for 9 million; is that a Capital Loss?


i'm beginning to think that inflation has a purpose. it allows the US Gov. to stick its hand in any time something "appreciates" ... then they can have a tax on the "gain".

the game could be reversed. let's say i have a 100,000 FRN's and they lose 75% of their value over 10 years. then i trade them for gold, to lock in the "loss". in gold, what could buy 400 ounces can only buy 100 ounces.

so i have a loss of 300 ounces of gold, in the new system that is denominated in gold.

but, in the gold-denominated system, to go back to the example of 100,000 FRN's - i traded 400 ounces of gold for $100K, then i traded $100K for 100 ounces of gold, thereby losing 300 ounces of gold.


when the loss is booked in US tax forms, things are bought & sold with dollars (which are admittedly changing value). yet they are treated as something un-changing, immutable, like a Volt or an Ampere.

i don't know how you would book a capital loss and charge it back to the government on a tax form.

but i think there's enough brainpower here at G-S.us to figure out it ! ;D