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View Full Version : Explanation of today's silver plummet move ~ Trader Dan Norcini



Filthy Keynes
9th November 2010, 08:47 PM
http://jsmineset.com/2010/11/09/cme-group-announces-money-and-margin-requirement-increases/


CME Group today announced a hike in the amount of money or margin needed to control a full-sized (5,000 ounces) silver contract. Margin for silver jumped to $6,500 from $5,000 or 30%.
Several things to know about this:

First, it is quite common to see this occur in markets that are undergoing sharp upmoves in price. The increasing price range can easily wipe out the entire margin amount in a single day with ease and this is designed to protect the integrity of the clearing houses and the brokerage firms. Customers who lose big cannot oftentimes meet margin calls and end up sticking the brokerage firm with losses. The idea is that the firms protect themselves by having more money at the clearing houses sufficient to cover potential losses.

Second – members of the exchange generally tend to be on the short side of a market moving higher and once they get trapped, they begin to squeak, and quite loudly at that. Squeaky wheels get the grease and since the exchange membership brings with it voting rights, they generally get what they want.

Thirdly – Small specs whose accounts are generally underfunded to begin with and who chase the markets higher based on the hype end up buying at relatively high levels. Once the margins get raised, these weak hands get forced out since they generally cannot meet margin calls and their exodus precipitates a wave of selling. That engenders more paper losses which then engenders more margin calls and the snowball effect occurs.

Fourthly – strong hands on the long side will look to add on during such price retracements when it appears that the bulk of the weak-handed latecomers have been flushed out. Stronger hands on the short side who have been experiencing severe bleeding of their trading accounts will welcome the opportunity to finally cover some of their existing shorts in an attempt to minimize the amount of damage that they have incurred. Getting out with a small loss after sitting through a huge one is a psychological victory for trapped shorts.

Fifthly – to believe that the bull market in the metals is now over and that gold in particular has topped, is to also believe that the US Dollar is about to somehow mysteriously repair itself in spite of the conditions that have been contributing to its recent decline. Gold is acting as a currency and will remain one. It is no longer trading as a commodity. Severe stress in the global monetary system assures that it will be well supported.

Sixthly – the breakdown in the long bond is signaling that the market is fearful of inflation ahead. Gold and silver are your protection against such conditions.

Summary – trading gold and/or silver is a vastly different thing than investing in either or both. Traders can get whacked if they do not respect what leverage can do to them and their trading accounts. You are playing with the big boys now and need to learn to be careful and avoid becoming complacent or overconfident about your existing positions. Failure to do so means immense pain. If you must trade, then use very short term time frames such as 5 or 15 minute charts to move in or out.
Investors who buy the metals as a hedge against the Dollar can be much more long term focused and tune out the short term gyrations of the markets. This is what we have been warning about when we said to expect increased volatility. It works both ways going up and going down.

Gaillo
9th November 2010, 09:08 PM
Fifthly – to believe that the bull market in the metals is now over and that gold in particular has topped, is to also believe that the US Dollar is about to somehow mysteriously repair itself in spite of the conditions that have been contributing to its recent decline. Gold is acting as a currency and will remain one. It is no longer trading as a commodity. Severe stress in the global monetary system assures that it will be well supported.

I believe he is DEAD ON CORRECT on this point. I made an "emergency trip" to town today after the China credit de-rating announcement, to buy more Silver. The owner of the coin shop told me that they have NEVER seen such a flurry of buying - they are selling 3-4x as much Silver as they did last year during this time of year. I was told that yesterday (during the peak of the bull market so far, keep in mind!) there was ONE CUSTOMER that nearly cleaned out the entire coin store inventory, buying over 6,000 ounces. There were ZERO merc dimes or silver quarters to be had, and only 23 one-ounce rounds and a few 10 ounce bars left. I bought half the ounce rounds, and left feeling quite grateful that I could get that. I asked the owner if it was surprising that I would show up 2 days in a row, and was informed that surprisingly, that was no longer unusual for many of the shop's regular buyers. One "soccer-mom" customer (those are the EXACT WORDS she was described as...) I was told, had been in EVERY DAY the shop had been open during the last week - buying silver on each occasion.

Annecdotal, for sure, but I believe it... As I was leaving the shop the next guy "in line" purchased 30 tenth ounce Gold fractionals. Demand for physical seems to have taken off, and I don't see it slowing now that the dollar is OBVIOUSLY (to anyone who is paying attention) crashing.

PatColo
9th November 2010, 09:11 PM
good article, I agree with most of it, but there's a thread on this already,
http://gold-silver.us/forum/gold-silver-precious-metals/the-reason-silver-dumped

MAGNES
9th November 2010, 09:21 PM
The reason silver dumped is the CRIMEX SHORTS being overextended,
that is the reason.

Margin requirements is just one of the main tools they use among many.
One has to ask why they were so low for so long. Sucking in longs.
Not that long ago I remember 14 K . rofl !

There are no margin requirements for the CRIMEX SHORTS Butler talks about.

Today will show up in the Friday COT report, the rest of the week will not.

It boils down to this, do you believe in a totally rigged market as Butler writes about
and others.

I have always been a big fan and linker to Norcini, he spent a lot of time talking of COT.
But the LeMetro boys were masters and key educators.

Just consider from mid September high, 75 million Oz SI, they are under, X $ 8 - $ 9 .
That was the peak. Few hundred million are short Oz, at some average price,
unless they found some way to pass on exposure or they get creamed,
it is business as usual.

I just posted this Sun night.
http://gold-silver.us/forum/general-discussion/the-dog-just-touched-$27/msg136488/#msg136488

Filthy Keynes
9th November 2010, 09:27 PM
good article, I agree with most of it, but there's a thread on this already,
http://gold-silver.us/forum/gold-silver-precious-metals/the-reason-silver-dumped


Oops... sorry. I didn't realize that.

Ponce
9th November 2010, 09:41 PM
Is ok Keynes, I din't see it the first time............now we have a see it all cop in the room.

FunnyMoney
10th November 2010, 12:52 AM
That was an interesting radio conversation. Dex said there was "good news and bad news" but added, "we haven't seen nothing yet... 100 dollar moves in gold and 20 to 25 dollar moves in silver in a single day coming... dollar manipulated back toward 80 or 90... bond collapse with rates going way up... 150 oil within six months. Don't agree but it was fun.

The article by Dan was good read.

Neuro
10th November 2010, 02:20 AM
As Magnes said the real reason why Silver dumped was because the COMEX criminals were overextended. They co-ordinated the smack-down with an increase in margin requirements, to get maximum effect. I have no dubt about this...

Libertarian_Guard
10th November 2010, 02:51 AM
It sounds to me like a novel approach to keep the game in check.

In pro sports, officials should employ like measures.

When a pitcher is walking too many batters, the umpire could extent a walk to five or six balls. Same with a pitcher that is striking out the side, make him throw 4 or 5 strikes for a strikeout.

In football when one team makes a lot more first downs than the other, the official could increase their first down yardage to 15 or 20 yards.

In hockey when a team gets a 3 goal lead, let then skate 4 against 5 untill the score evens up!

I could go on and on, but why bother?

Son-of-Liberty
10th November 2010, 05:21 AM
Didn't work too well did it?

:D

gunDriller
10th November 2010, 06:10 AM
oops

Low_five
10th November 2010, 07:35 AM
so now you have to pay more to control the same amount of silver? how did that make the price go down, seems like that would make the price go up. more money : same amount of silver.

gunDriller
10th November 2010, 08:48 AM
http://jsmineset.com/2010/11/09/cme-group-announces-money-and-margin-requirement-increases/


[size=13pt][color=blue]CME Group today announced a hike in the amount of money or margin needed to control a full-sized (5,000 ounces) silver contract. Margin for silver jumped to $6,500 from $5,000 or 30%.
Several things to know about this:


$5000 or $6500 to buy/ control 5000 ounces ?

Jeez - why not 10% down - at least ?

= $14,000, instead of $6500.

Ash_Williams
10th November 2010, 09:13 AM
so now you have to pay more to control the same amount of silver? how did that make the price go down, seems like that would make the price go up. more money : same amount of silver.

It's like putting a deposit on a car. Most people don't have the cash to buy a car free and clear, so they put a deposit on it and now the car is considered sold to them.

When the deposit/cash down is low it means more buyers can get into the game and increase demand. If you had to put 50% cash down to buy a car, there would be less demand for cars.

The margin is for traders and investors. If you really do want the silver you would have enough cash to pay for it. The people that need to buy on margin are just buying so they can sell later. The idea is for $6500 you can "buy" 5000 oz of silver. Now if silver goes up $2 that day you sell and you've made $10000. On the other if it falls by $2 you've lost $10000, which is more than you invested! That's leverage.

learn2swim
10th November 2010, 09:28 AM
so now you have to pay more to control the same amount of silver? how did that make the price go down, seems like that would make the price go up. more money : same amount of silver.

It's like putting a deposit on a car. Most people don't have the cash to buy a car free and clear, so they put a deposit on it and now the car is considered sold to them.

When the deposit/cash down is low it means more buyers can get into the game and increase demand. If you had to put 50% cash down to buy a car, there would be less demand for cars.

The margin is for traders and investors. If you really do want the silver you would have enough cash to pay for it. The people that need to buy on margin are just buying so they can sell later. The idea is for $6500 you can "buy" 5000 oz of silver. Now if silver goes up $2 that day you sell and you've made $10000. On the other if it falls by $2 you've lost $10000, which is more than you invested! That's leverage.


How long can you hold the margin? Is there a time limit?

Silver Shield
10th November 2010, 10:33 AM
those that are playing this game on margin are suckers.

They will and should be wiped from this game.

If I was some of these big money guys I would say, " here is your higher margin and I will raise you the full amount and now give me my silver."

This price rise and fall means nothing.

Do not trade this market, buy and hold.

Wait until there is a failure to deliver then you will see sme serious stuff.

Ash_Williams
10th November 2010, 11:14 AM
How long can you hold the margin? Is there a time limit?

Honestly for the comex I don't know how a time-limit is handled. You're buying a futures contract so once that contract stops trading you'd obviously have to sell.. but then you could just buy another contract for next month. If it were stocks there would also be an interest for borrowing the difference between your margin and the price of the contract, but I don't know how this applies to futures trading. It may just be a buying and selling fee that applies.

If you did use $6500 to buy 5000 oz of silver, which then fell by 1.13/oz (so a total of $6500) you would likely get a margin call. That means you gotta pony up some more cash or you are selling whether you like it or not.

Similarly, if you bough on $5000 margin and the requirement went up to $6500, you now have to come up with that extra $1500 or you are forced to sell.