Is corrupted libertarianism the new slavery?

[RJB]

Written by me... Feel free to shred it with critiques... :)

I've always considered myself a libertarian. My motto has mostly been, "leave me alone." I believed it was based on "Self guided liberty as long as you don't harm anyone else." With the belief that men seek to do what's right. Granted we need morals to acheive this.

I think what is killing libertarianism is the mistaken belief that our freedom is based on ability to profit verses liberty tempered by morals.

Case in point, I've heard John Stossel (with Glenn Beck agreeing) arguing for a for profit military. Would we still be in Iraq and Afganistan if the CEO of Haliburtan was NOT making $40+ million a year? Imagine the outcry if it was discovered that a sailor made that-- No wars are not won by profit; wars are prolonged. Wars are won by patriotic men who desire to save their family's way of life, not profit.

We have privatized prisons and now have the highest incarceration rate in the world (land of the FREE, home of the BRAVE, my ass!) Now communities are starting to privatize police forces-- will we check their connection to privatized prisons?

I've also noticed the illogical extreme some libertarians will go to defend profit taking to the point of suggesting that we have for profit competing rural fire departments-- For one thing there is no profit in rural fire fighting. Second, as a former volunteer (almost all rural districts are strictly volunteer), we do it for the love of community. Before someone mistakenly calls it communism-- No, communists "volunteer" at the point of a gun. Americans volunteer out of love for God, Country and family.

As a small business owner, I am definitely for the ability to earn a living, however I see more and more regulations placed on people at my level, brought on by mega-corportion at the backing of "libertairans" such as Glenn Beck.

In short, I believe that libertarianism has been hijacked by people as deadly to liberty as communism. I believe that the spirit of liberty has been polluted to the point of nihilism. The problem we have is: We the people have TOO many laws on us. Where as politicians and International Corporations have too few or they ignore what laws are in place. To fix this nation we need to remove the chains that are placed on we the people and replace them on those who lord over us. They have anarchy, we have slavery.

True libertarianism should work the other way around. We need to re-establish the rule of law to those who make and enforce the law.

[Book]

Communists "volunteer" at the point of a gun. Americans volunteer out of love for God, Country and family.



http://www.buckfush.com/images/Dick_Cheney_Halliburton_War_Profits.jpg

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/michael-chertoffs-conflict-interest

Americans who volunteer are brainwashed idiots. Anytime some politician talks about God, Country and Family he is about to pump his defense contractor stock portfolio.

:oo-->

[palani]

While stupid is forever ignorance can be cured.

Ignorance of law, consists in the want of knowledge of those laws which it is our duty to understand, and which every man is presumed to know.

[RJB]

Americans who volunteer are brainwashed idiots. Anytime some politician talks about God, Country and Family he is about to pump his defense contractor stock portfolio. Good point. Blame it on miseducation/indoctrination. I should include knowledge and wisdom along with morals as needed for liberty to function.

Most of the "God fearing" politicians would become instant wiccans if that became the religion of the majority. Again, I point to the rule of law that TPTB must follow.

[keehah]

Big government hiring contractors to incarcerate people at levels higher than anywhere else in the world is about as libertarian as agent provocateurs breaking windows, tipping cars and starting fires is anarchy.

Corrupted thinking is the core of the new slavery.

[RJB]

Big government hiring contractors to incarcerate people at levels higher than anywhere else in the world is about as libertarian as agent provocateurs breaking windows, tipping cars and starting fires is anarchy.

Corrupted thinking is the new slavery.
I agree, but many of the self proclaimed "Libertarian leaders" claim that this is a good thing.

Maybe, Corrupted thinking in general is what I should have written about.

[Hatha Sunahara]

Big government hiring contractors to incarcerate people at levels higher than anywhere else in the world is about as libertarian as agent provocateurs breaking windows, tipping cars and starting fires is anarchy.

Corrupted thinking is the new slavery.
I agree, but many of the self proclaimed "Libertarian leaders" claim that this is a good thing.

Maybe, Corrupted thinking in general is what I should have written about.


Libertarian thinking is a corrupted compromise on the issue of slavery versus freedom. Uncorrupted thinking about slavery versus freedom leads you either to anarchism, or to being in league with the banksters. All the political isms are corrupted. They are rationalizations by degree for being a slave.

Looking at the political spectrum horizontally--as from left to right gets you to some form of slavery. If you rotate that view to a vertical one--that is top versus bottom, you can avoid all the corrupted thinking. There are only two kinds of people. Slaves and their masters. Anarchism is the pursuit of being neither.

Hatha

[palani]

From: "As A Man Thinketh" by James Allen

It has been usual for men to think and to say, "Many men are slaves
because one is an oppressor; let us hate the oppressor." Now,
however, there is amongst an increasing few a tendency to reverse
this judgment, and to say, "One man is an oppressor because many are
slaves; let us despise the slaves."

The truth is that oppressor and slave are co-operators in ignorance,
and, while seeming to afflict each other, are in reality afflicting
themselves. A perfect Knowledge perceives the action of law in the
weakness of the oppressed and the misapplied power of the oppressor;
a perfect Love, seeing the suffering, which both states entail,
condemns neither; a perfect Compassion embraces both oppressor and
oppressed.

He who has conquered weakness, and has put away all selfish
thoughts, belongs neither to oppressor nor oppressed. He is free.

[hoarder]

A dozen years ago I was a card-carrying member of the Libertarian party (although I never agreed with them on immigration).

Then I discovered that ideologies are weapons.

On one hand you have Jew Karl Marx pimping Communism, followed by his tribe using it to usurp existing powers.
There have always been a sector of freedom-loving White goys who hated Communism.
We can't have them learn who was behind Communism.

Along comes Ayn Rand and a gaggle of Jewish promoters of Libertarianism. Whenever they referred to tyranny, they referred to Hitler, never mentioning the millions of blond-haired, blue-eyed Ukranians they murdered in the name of collectivism.

Look at the similarities between Communism and Libertarianism; People are reduced to mere units of production. There is no culture, no tradition, no national sovereignty, no races, no religions...just a sea of individuals.

Both ideologies are extremely compatible with world government.

[kregener]

If you think Beck represents Libertarianism, then I don't know what to tell you.

[Apparition]

If you think Beck represents Libertarianism, then I don't know what to tell you.

I couldn't agree more considering his past neocon statements and that he still promotes statism from time to time.

[RJB]

If you think Beck represents Libertarianism, then I don't know what to tell you.
I don't think he's a libertarian, BUT it's NOT what I think. It's what he says and what others think. Like it or not people enamoured by the MSM believe that Beck is a libertarian. We are being defined by others whether we like it or not and many are being duped.

[Ash_Williams]

Case in point, I've heard John Stossel (with Glenn Beck agreeing) arguing for a for profit military. Would we still be in Iraq and Afganistan if the CEO of Haliburtan was NOT making $40+ million a year? Imagine the outcry if it was discovered that a sailor made that-- No wars are not won by profit; wars are prolonged. Wars are won by patriotic men who desire to save their family's way of life, not profit.

I think a pretty standard libertarian position everywhere is that the military and courts would be run by the gov (and that's pretty much all it would run). I think it's also commonly agreed by libertarians that the wars we are fighting right now, we shouldn't have ever started.


We have privatized prisons and now have the highest incarceration rate in the world (land of the FREE, home of the BRAVE, my ass!) Now communities are starting to privatize police forces-- will we check their connection to privatized prisons?

Incarcerated mostly for victimless crimes. Would for profit prisons be as objectionable if you actually had to hurt someone to be locked up? In any case, get rid of the stupid drug laws and the prisons will close up.


I've also noticed the illogical extreme some libertarians will go to defend profit taking to the point of suggesting that we have for profit competing rural fire departments-- For one thing there is no profit in rural fire fighting. Second, as a former volunteer (almost all rural districts are strictly volunteer), we do it for the love of community. Before someone mistakenly calls it communism-- No, communists "volunteer" at the point of a gun. Americans volunteer out of love for God, Country and family.

I think that was me. At the time I didn't realize how small the town was, but in a city I could see competing fire departments. I was suggesting a possible solution that didn't involve coercion. There's other solutions. Maybe insurance companies could fund the fire dept, much in the way they buy the cops their radar guns. Or, as I pointed out, a private fire department probably wouldn't show up then watch a place burn, taking in $0 for their time, if a homeowner was willing to pay for their service. A private company can accept money on the spot, so would be happy to do so, while the city-run dept can only accept money through the yearly fee so they have to use tactics to ensure payment of that fee. A private company could let the house burn down too, if they chose, but it seems far less likely that a private company would turn down payment on the spot.


As a small business owner, I am definitely for the ability to earn a living, however I see more and more regulations placed on people at my level, brought on by mega-corportion at the backing of "libertairans" such as Glenn Beck.

In short, I believe that libertarianism has been hijacked by people as deadly to liberty as communism. I believe that the spirit of liberty has been polluted to the point of nihilism. The problem we have is: We the people have TOO many laws on us. Where as politicians and International Corporations have too few or they ignore what laws are in place. To fix this nation we need to remove the chains that are placed on we the people and replace them on those who lord over us. They have anarchy, we have slavery.

We have to remove the chains, period. You can't fight tyranny with more tyranny. The temptation to put chains on others is too strong, and power always corrupts. As long as we allow chains we're going to have a strong hierarchical system with evil rising to the top.

[RJB]

I think that was me. At the time I didn't realize how small the town was, but in a city I could see competing fire departments.Thanks for the long response.

I remember that discussion but I wasn't picking on you directly, I also read a peice by Mary Ruwart (If I recall correctly) discussing a similiar idea.

I'm starting to rethink core beliefs again and this thread may be due to diarhea of the keyboard, but I have also been dismayed at fake libertarians as mentioned.

Anyway, starting tomorrow I'm limitting myself to 20 minutes total on the internet for a month and a half, so I'll probably only get here for 10 minutes a day, so don't be offended if I don't reply back for a while and feel free to rip this thread to shreds.

BTW at Gaillo's request, I'm rereading Atlas Shrugged, so I may tear this thread apart myself in a month or two. ;D