It is not easy breaking away from the system. Can it be done?

[BillBoard]

I have been working on developing a barter/trade network and, unfortunately I am sorry to report, I have not been too successful.

The obstacles are many and the people's mentality very rigid, but believe it or not, I have seen a bit of rays of sunshine here and there.

In about 8 months of work, I have found 5 very strong will individuals, and they seem to have the conviction of seen us succeed in developing an alternative system.

One of the most helpful tools in making progress has been the study of individuals and their personalities, it turns out in my experience, most people will rather suffer in silence than take proactive action. In other words, they rather suffer than do anything. It does not matter if they are introverts or extroverts, they rather avoid changing anything than actually get off their butts.

This insight tells me why TPTB are so successful, they have mastered how to use people's inertia against themselves. Pure genius I tell you.

[Book]

barter/trade network...



Ever notice that your local precious metals Dealer demands Federal Reserve Notes for his shiny metal? Kitco posts their prices in Federal Reserve Notes.

:ROFL:

[midnight rambler]

I've observed that the vast majority prefer to go with the evil they are certain about rather than proceeding with faith in accordance with God's Plan.

But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. -James 1:25

[sirgonzo420]

Gresham's Law.

Why would people spend GOOD money when BAD money is accepted just as (actually, more) readily?

[sirgonzo420]

I've observed that the vast majority prefer to go with the evil they are certain about rather than going with the Great Unknown aka God.

But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. -James 1:25


Since the first time I ever ran across it, that's been one of my very favorite verses.

[BillBoard]

Gresham's Law.

Why would people spend GOOD money when BAD money is accepted just as (actually, more) readily?


See, that is the insidious point!!!

Since the TPTB control the currency, you may have 2 people wanting to do business, but since both may lack currency the fact that none of them can obtain currency that stops them from doing business.

[midnight rambler]

Gresham's Law.

Why would people spend GOOD money when BAD money is accepted just as (actually, more) readily?


See, that is the insidious point!!!

Since the TPTB control the currency, you may have 2 people wanting to do business, but since both may lack currency the fact that none of them can obtain currency that stops them from doing business.


IMO, a major issue with your perspective is "the powers that be". By thinking and saying such notions (in reality it's an affirmation - anyone who knows anything about the occult recognizes the power of such an affirmation) YOU are giving power to someone that you don't know and have have never met. It is an illusion that they have power over you. I suggest you stop re-enforcing that meme, not just to yourself, but to others as well.

[BillBoard]

Gresham's Law.

Why would people spend GOOD money when BAD money is accepted just as (actually, more) readily?


See, that is the insidious point!!!

Since the TPTB control the currency, you may have 2 people wanting to do business, but since both may lack currency the fact that none of them can obtain currency that stops them from doing business.


Good point. But that does not change the fact that the system exist and it is benefiting someone that is not me.

IMO, a major issue with your perspective is "the powers that be". By thinking and saying such notions (in reality it's an affirmation) YOU are giving power to someone that you don't know and have have never met. It is an illusion that they have power over you. I suggest you stop re-enforcing that meme, not just to yourself, but to others as well.

[midnight rambler]

Good point. But that does not change the fact that the system exist and it is benefiting someone that is not me.

Of course it exists - in the minds of men, as a fiction.

You're far ahead of the game with the efforts you're making, carry on. I merely suggest you recognize the system for what it is, just like The Matrix, an illusion, an illusion that's destined to fail.

[Book]

It is an illusion that they have power over you.



http://www.bushywood.com/media/media_images/policeman_shooting_plastic_bullets_at_demonstrator s_in_eattle.jpg

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00448/news-graphics-2007-_448312a.jpg

http://i.thisislondon.co.uk/i/pix/2009/04/riot-police-415x257.jpg

http://burnpit.legion.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/31-eur-Riot-police-fire-pepper-spray-at-demonstrators-during-clashes-in-an-anti-war-demonstration-outside-the-Greek-Parliament.jpg

Midnight Rambler out in front leading the revolt...by typing on his keyboard...lol.

:D

[BillBoard]

an illusion, an illusion that's destined to fail.


midnight rambler, please bear with me, I am not trying to be obtuse.

The system does exist and it is not an illusion, it exist as long as people pledge their commitments and carry on their perceived obligations.

Yes, I agree with you that it is an illusion for that in fact an obligation may not exist. For example, someone may claim ownership of the Earth, yet fail to provide objective proof of that ownership. However, if you define ownership as the consent and agreement of others to your claim, then yes, you may in fact own whatever you are claiming if you have such consent and agreement by the others.

I think I comprehend your point though, and have spent considerable time in freeing myself from those delusions.

[midnight rambler]

It is an illusion that they have power over you.




Midnight Rambler out in front leading the revolt...by typing on his keyboard...lol.

:D


Considering you're always foaming at the mouth ready to re-enforce the meme of overwhelming coercive police force of the state at the drop of a hat, why don't you elaborate on the dog you have in this fight?

[midnight rambler]

However, if you define ownership as the consent and agreement of others to your claim, then yes, you may in fact own whatever you are claiming if you have such consent and agreement by the others.

There you have it, succinctly put. This is exactly what the elitist thinking types have been working on for decades, and what a fine job they've done. Of course they are soooo much smarter and wiser than us common folk. Obviously Book is onboard with them, masquerading as "I'm one of you!".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbsdNcg6CgU

[keehah]

OK you two talking the talk, how are you walking the walk?

Everything I want to do is illegal (mainly the codex food regulations) and supplies the corrupted government with too much tax money used to destroy and imprison for elite control. They are even going after private food clubs.

I learned all the codex paperwork, I've done it professionally too with related automotive materials QAQC. I could do it, but right now I avoid it like TSA security (and the costs would kill, as it was planned to do).

I'm not yet at the point where I have nothing to loose (i.e. I own the commercial with my legal residence building, which I would own without mortgage only if I liquidated all my other dwindling assets).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b27EFldZ17k

When I have nothing to loose I can brake away from the system. I'm sure this is not irony, but some soro's like mind has thought all this out. When I have nothing to loose I'll be put to work in a 'FEMA' camp.

There may be a way though. Be like the elite and politicians. Do it in a correct corrupt way. Like the banks, MSM and wall street does. I'm going to have to fill my head up with their empty paperwork 'checks and balances' and psychopathic ways of thinking and sell degraded product though. Yuck!

Or wait for it all to crash so honest people can trade good things with their neighbours again.

[BillBoard]

OK you two talking the talk, how are you walking the walk?



What do you mean specifically by walking the walk?





There may be a way though. Be like the elite and politicians. Do it in a correct corrupt way. Like the banks, MSM and wall street does. I'm going to have to fill my head up with their empty paperwork 'checks and balances' and psychopathic ways of thinking and sell degraded product though. Yuck!



Pretty much it does take something like they are doing, for something more than an empirical explanation you may wish to read:

Andrew Schmookler's - "The Parable Of The Tribes"

http://www.context.org/ICLIB/IC07/Schmoklr.htm


The Parable Of The Tribes
A new look at how the history of civilization
may have been largely shaped
by the raw struggle for power between societies
by Andrew Schmookler


EDIT:----------->

As to an explanation why psychopaths or sociopaths succeed, you may wish to read:

"Political Ponerology " by Andrew Lobaczewski.

http://www.ponerology.com/


PONEROLOGY: THE STUDY OF EVIL

“In the author’s opinion, Ponerology reveals itself to be a new branch of science born out of historical need and the most recent accomplishments of medicine and psychology. In light of objective naturalistic language, it studies the causal components and processes of the genesis of evil, regardless of the latter’s social scope. We may attempt to analyze these ponerogenic processes which have given rise to human injustice, armed with proper knowledge, particularly in the area of psychopathology. Again and again, as the reader will discover, in such a study, we meet with the effects of pathological factors whose carriers are people characterized by some degree of various psychological deviations or defects.” (Lobaczewski, 42)

[keehah]

What do you mean specifically by walking the walk?

Examples of a sustainable lifestyle in North American having broken away from the system without living in fear of a gang of armed state thugs breaking in, sticking a gun or state paper work in one's face and shutting it all down.

[BillBoard]

What do you mean specifically by walking the walk?

Examples of a sustainable lifestyle in North American having broken away from the system without living in fear of a gang of armed state thugs breaking in, sticking a gun in one's face and shutting it all down.


I do no know of anyone having broken away from the system yet, but I think it is somewhat possible. The Amish have tried very hard, but much of them have succumbed to the system and its regulations.

Don't forget that in order to live a quality of life that uses much of modern conveniences, you have to have a way to interact with the providers of those goods and services. Which implies that you have to have a way to interface with their system.

[midnight rambler]

As to an explanation why psychopaths or sociopaths succeed, you may wish to read:

"Political Ponerology " by Andrew Lobaczewski.

http://www.ponerology.com/



The original manuscript of this book went into the furnace minutes before a secret police raid in Communist Poland. The second copy, painfully reassembled by scientists working under impossible conditions of violence and repression, was sent via courier to the Vatican. Its receipt was never acknowledged - the manuscript and all valuable data lost. In 1984, the third and final copy was written from memory by the last survivor of the original researchers: Andrew Lobaczewski. Zbigniew Brzezinski blocked its publication.

Wow.

[midnight rambler]

It is an illusion that they have power over you.




Midnight Rambler out in front leading the revolt...by typing on his keyboard...lol.

:D


Considering you're always foaming at the mouth ready to re-enforce the meme of overwhelming coercive police force of the state at the drop of a hat, why don't you elaborate on the dog you have in this fight?


Still waiting...

[TheNocturnalEgyptian]

It is an illusion that they have power over you.



http://www.bushywood.com/media/media_images/policeman_shooting_plastic_bullets_at_demonstrator s_in_eattle.jpg

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00448/news-graphics-2007-_448312a.jpg

http://i.thisislondon.co.uk/i/pix/2009/04/riot-police-415x257.jpg

http://burnpit.legion.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/31-eur-Riot-police-fire-pepper-spray-at-demonstrators-during-clashes-in-an-anti-war-demonstration-outside-the-Greek-Parliament.jpg

Midnight Rambler out in front leading the revolt...by typing on his keyboard...lol.

:D



It's an illusion and a reality at the same time. The idea that they have power over you is an allegation, not a fact. If anyone tries to publicly challenge them, then it is true that they will use force to make an example of that individual.. It is also true that anybody is capable of the same or similar force going in the opposite direction. It's just that the public is less willing to use force than TPTB.

[Libertarian_Guard]

It is an illusion that they have power over you.



http://www.bushywood.com/media/media_images/policeman_shooting_plastic_bullets_at_demonstrator s_in_eattle.jpg

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00448/news-graphics-2007-_448312a.jpg

http://i.thisislondon.co.uk/i/pix/2009/04/riot-police-415x257.jpg

http://burnpit.legion.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/31-eur-Riot-police-fire-pepper-spray-at-demonstrators-during-clashes-in-an-anti-war-demonstration-outside-the-Greek-Parliament.jpg

Midnight Rambler out in front leading the revolt...by typing on his keyboard...lol.

:D



It's just that the public is less willing to use force than TPTB.


No. I think it is because the public, in this day and age, could never get organized to the point of bringing a greater force to topple the current power, and even then, if we could, there is no guarantee that the new power would be any more benevolent than what we have now, and there is no sense in dying over a cause that isn’t clear. But that's just me.

[palani]

It is not easy breaking away from the system. Can it be done?

As soon as you get it through your head that you are purchasing nothing with a FRN there is no advantage to staying with the status quo. The illusion is that you become the legal owner of a thing by using others credit. How far do you go to protect something that is someone elses property?

[zusn]

barter/trade network...



Ever notice that your local precious metals Dealer demands Federal Reserve Notes for his shiny metal? Kitco posts their prices in Federal Reserve Notes.

:ROFL:


I also notice that dealers buy that shiny metal from people using FRN. They also have their own stash. I went to my buddy's house about 8 years ago to buy some silver. (he owns a pawn shop) He showed me his stash of silver so I could pick what I wanted. He then showed me his gold. Holy shit. He'll do just fine.

[TheNocturnalEgyptian]

Good point, Libertarian Guard. Any sort of revolution doesn't need to be stopped - it only needs to be taken over/infiltrated.

[ShortJohnSilver]

My view is that the only way to minimize it is to have your own small farm (or possibly, a mine, though few of us have enough of the needed skills) and thereby cut out the need for cash as much as possible.

That is, you work on your own farm, which you own, and you increase your herd (pigs, chickens, cows) each year, which you are not taxed on; you live on cheap rural land (lower taxes) and thus under the IRS accounting practices your earnings are low enough that you don't have to pay taxes.

I think under such a case, you could never entirely get out of the system but would be 95% out of it.

[BillBoard]

The illusion is that you become the legal owner of a thing by using others' credit. How far do you go to protect something that is someone elses property?


Palani, you may need to explain this to others in more detail.

The way I can explain it is like this:

I send you to the store with a note that says- "Hey Mr. Store owner, give the man or woman bearing this note one 50# bag of flour. I will pay you for it when I see you. Signed: X"

Once you get to the store, you present the note and the store owner gives you the bag of flour. You then leave the store and one block down the road you stop for a minute.

Question? Who is the owner of the flour? More specifically who owns the legal title to the flour? If you say me (the one carrying the flour), you could be correct, but most likely not. If you say the store owner still has legal title to the flour, you may be correct or you can say the note issuer and also be correct.

Which one is it? Well, it depends on the code. Which code? The legal code. So if you are using notes (Fed bank notes) to purchase stuff, you may not really be the legal owner of the stuff you bought.

[zap]

Isn't possession 9/10 ths of the law? I'd say whoever holds it owns it.

[midnight rambler]

Isn't possession 9/10 ths of the law? I'd say whoever holds it owns it.


You apparently aren't familiar with a cestui que trust. How do you think the police are able to impound an automobile without a court order or warrant? Research the term beneficial owner.

[BillBoard]

Isn't possession 9/10 ths of the law? I'd say whoever holds it owns it.


That may very well be under the common law, but what happens when you have taken out of circulation the precious metals?

[palani]

The illusion is that you become the legal owner of a thing by using others' credit. How far do you go to protect something that is someone elses property?


Palani, you may need to explain this to others in more detail.

The way I can explain it is like this:

I send you to the store with a note that says- "Hey Mr. Store owner, give the man or woman bearing this note one 50# bag of flour. I will pay you for it when I see you. Signed: X"

Once you get to the store, you present the note and the store owner gives you the bag of flour. You then leave the store and one block down the road you stop for a minute.

Question? Who is the owner of the flour? More specifically who owns the legal title to the flour? If you say me (the one carrying the flour), you could be correct, but most likely not. If you say the store owner still has legal title to the flour, you may be correct or you can say the note issuer and also be correct.

Which one is it? Well, it depends on the code. Which code? The legal code. So if you are using notes (Fed bank notes) to purchase stuff, you may not really be the legal owner of the stuff you bought.

Looks like you did a pretty good job filling in details.

To me the legal owner is the one who is willing to shed blood protecting his right to possession of the item from others who would take it from him. When I look at what others might presume I own there are actually darn few items I am willing to go to this length to protect and absolutely none of them were purchased with FRNs. Rather than be distressed over my unwillingness to fight to the death for possession of a "thing" instead perhaps I have entered what is termed a "civil state" for these FRN related items:


CIVIL STATE. The union of individual men in civil society under a system of laws and a magistracy, or magistracies, charged with the administration of the laws. It is a fundamental law of the civil state, that no member of it shall undertake to redress or avenge any violation of his rights, by another person, but appeal to the constituted authorities for that purpose, in all cases in which is is possible for him to do so. Hence the citizens are justly considered as being under the safeguard of the law. 1 Toull. n. 201.

[palani]

Isn't possession 9/10 ths of the law? I'd say whoever holds it owns it.

While you are concentrating on the 9/10ths possession the other 1/10th represents the legal owner and he can take away any of your toys at any time.

[gunDriller]

My view is that the only way to minimize it is to have your own small farm (or possibly, a mine, though few of us have enough of the needed skills) and thereby cut out the need for cash as much as possible.

That is, you work on your own farm, which you own, and you increase your herd (pigs, chickens, cows) each year, which you are not taxed on; you live on cheap rural land (lower taxes) and thus under the IRS accounting practices your earnings are low enough that you don't have to pay taxes.

I think under such a case, you could never entirely get out of the system but would be 95% out of it.


i agree - part of the trick is to "do it yourself", to meet your needs, and to minimize your income, to minimize your taxes.

one area of the country that has a lot of experience dropping out - the area of Willits & Mendocino county ... they've been practicing being dropped out since the '60's & '70's. a lot of do-it-yourself-ers up there.

of course, 25 marijuana plants will pay for a lot of solar cells and composting toilets.

what could i say - their well water does not have fluoride in it. Revenge of the Potheads ?

[midnight rambler]

It is an illusion that they have power over you.




Midnight Rambler out in front leading the revolt...by typing on his keyboard...lol.

:D


Considering you're always foaming at the mouth ready to re-enforce the meme of overwhelming coercive police force of the state at the drop of a hat, why don't you elaborate on the dog you have in this fight?


Still waiting...


At this point I'd say it's a safe bet that Book is unable or incapable of defending what he's saying, like a man.

Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. ~Thomas Paine

[keehah]

Local food advocate shocked by district's orders to stop growing produce on his property (http://www2.canada.com/nanaimodailynews/news/story.html?id=c59ffbaa-16ec-4768-a0d1-d6df650e2ff0)

November 20, 2010

Well-known urban farmer and local food production advocate Dirk Becker has been ordered to shut down his 2.5-acre Lantzville farm because of a home business bylaw that does not include agriculture in its regulations.

People can grow food for personal consumption, but they cannot sell the food for profit, according to the district's bylaws.

Becker and his partner, Nicole Shaw, spent five years transforming their property into a rich urban farm that produces an abundance of fresh food.

They sell their produce at the Bowen Road Farmers' Market, which the couple founded several years ago. They are the epitome of the modern food movement that encourages people to grow food in their backyards...

Regional District of Nanaimo bylaw enforcement officers, who are contracted by the District of Lantzville, responded to complaints about mounds of dirt and manure in front of the Becker home on Fernmar Road.

Officer Brian Brack ordered Becker to clean up the property, which was in violation of the unsightly premises bylaw. During that original investigation, it was discovered that the farm has been used to grow food commercially, according to Haime.

[midnight rambler]

Local food advocate shocked by district's orders to stop growing produce on his property (http://www2.canada.com/nanaimodailynews/news/story.html?id=c59ffbaa-16ec-4768-a0d1-d6df650e2ff0)

November 20, 2010

Well-known urban farmer and local food production advocate Dirk Becker has been ordered to shut down his 2.5-acre Lantzville farm because of a home business bylaw that does not include agriculture in its regulations.

People can grow food for personal consumption, but they cannot sell the food for profit, according to the district's bylaws.

Becker and his partner, Nicole Shaw, spent five years transforming their property into a rich urban farm that produces an abundance of fresh food.

They sell their produce at the Bowen Road Farmers' Market, which the couple founded several years ago. They are the epitome of the modern food movement that encourages people to grow food in their backyards...

Regional District of Nanaimo bylaw enforcement officers, who are contracted by the District of Lantzville, responded to complaints about mounds of dirt and manure in front of the Becker home on Fernmar Road.

Officer Brian Brack ordered Becker to clean up the property, which was in violation of the unsightly premises bylaw. During that original investigation, it was discovered that the farm has been used to grow food commercially, according to Haime.



Clearly that so called violation has to do with contract law in an administrative jurisdiction.