I'm going into a foreclosure battle

[madfranks]

Ok so I just found out my aunt and uncle have been served foreclosure papers on a house they owed less than 10% of the balance on, and their court date is Nov. 30th where it is expected that they will finalize everything and be given 48 hours to move out. I called my aunt and told her some basic stuff about rampant mortgage fraud, the "show me the note" concept and that since we have nothing left to lose, we might as well pull out all the stops. They don't have a lawyer, they have already given up and accepted that they're losing the home, so after I talked to them they invited me to come to court with them and try to convince the judge. I don't know if I can go to court or not, but I started developing a strategy for them and I would greatly appreciate any comments, feedback or helpful information sharing. Here's what I have so far:

The mortgage was through Chase, but somewhere along the line (more recent than not) it was sold to Fannie Mae. I understand that legally speaking, someone or some entity has to be the official owner of the house. I know that in many cases where the mortgage was sold and securitzed as an asset, MERS (Mortgage Electronic Registration Systems) is listed as the owner of the mortgage, even though the real owner may be a group of investors. Since it is Fannie Mae foreclosing, one would assume that they are the owners of the mortgage. But what if it's MERS? I'm thinking I could challenge Fannie Mae to prove that they own the home, and if I can get the judge to order them to prove it, we might have a chance. I can claim that they have no standing or authority to "take back" something they legally don't own. And since I'm claiming they don't own the home, hopefully the judge will tell them to show that they do. And if they can't, then maybe we get to keep the house.

I know, I know, realistically speaking the judge will most likely tell us we're full of it, or we have no standing to demand anything, and give the house to them. Like I said, there's nothing left to lose at this point, so we're going all out. I hope a miracle happens.

[palani]

These frauds have all sorts of tricks. Don't let them hold up a recorded copy of the note/mortgage and ask "Is this your signature?" An acceptable answer is "Judge, I will be happy to comment on that paper once it has been entered into evidence."

The trick here is that the original signer is the only one who look at a document and decide if it is an original. Copies don't count. Anyone could go to the recorders office and get a hundred copies if they like. The court needs THEM to state that it is an original in order to get the document into evidence.

Even if it is the original you have to look it over because the question is not "Is that your signature?" rather it is "Is this what you agreed to?". Even a staple hole indicates something has been removed. Other things might have been added (the recorders stamp maybe?).

[sirgonzo420]

There are some people knowledgeable about foreclosures here: www.suijurisclub.net

[palani]

Donna Baran has been fighting foreclosure in Florida for 3 years. Very upbeat knowledgeable person.

http://adask.wordpress.com/2010/10/07/foreclosure-interview-with-donna-baran/

[Book]

I don't know if I can go to court or not, but I started developing a strategy for them...



They already demonstrated such a defeated passivity and inaction that you need to be proactive and basically do it all yourself.

:dunno

[madfranks]

I don't know if I can go to court or not, but I started developing a strategy for them...



They already demonstrated such a defeated passivity and inaction that you need to be proactive and basically do it all yourself.

:dunno


I know. Notwithstanding their passivity, what I meant was I don't know if I am legally allowed to go to court to represent them, not I don't know if I will be busy that day. You know like I walk in and start telling things to the judge and the judge dismisses me because I have no legal bearing in the matter. Can my aunt/uncle just say "this is my nephew, he's representing us" and there you have it? :dunno

[Spectrism]

Where are deeds registerd? Town hall? County courthouse?

In CT, it is the town hall. Go there and see ALL the docs about this property. Ask for help if this is new to you and the clerk will be glad to help.

If they did not register any changes of ownership... i.e. Chase is listed as the lender and no other, and Chase is not making the claim, then they committed tax evasion by not registering the change and paying the tax (registration fee). If Chase is making the claim, then the original note made out to Chase must be returned with the original signature. No note = no claim.

[palani]

Can my aunt/uncle just say "this is my nephew, he's representing us" and there you have it? :dunno


Not advisable to represent others unless admitted to the BAR.

If you would like to get involved offer to buy out their interests in the property (one dollar love and affection) and then show up in court representing your own interests.

[Book]

Can my aunt/uncle just say "this is my nephew, he's representing us" and there you have it? :dunno



http://www.kickassshortsales.com/images/ATRI%20Form.jpg

http://www.kickassshortsales.com/LenderATRI.html

[horseshoe3]

Not only is it not advisable, it's not possible to represent someone else without being a member of the bar in that state. The judge will ask who are you and then have you removed. To the peanut gallery if you're lucky...or somewhere else depending on how he feels that day.

[Ares]

I know. Notwithstanding their passivity, what I meant was I don't know if I am legally allowed to go to court to represent them,

Nope, judge and prosecutor will throw you out for "Practicing Law without a license."

[Spectrism]

Not only is it not advisable, it's not possible to represent someone else without being a member of the bar in that state. The judge will ask who are you and then have you removed. To the peanut gallery if you're lucky...or somewhere else depending on how he feels that day.


I find it hard to believe that an ADVISOR would not be allowed to accompany anyone in court.

[Joe King]

MERS (Mortgage Electronic Registration Systems) is listed as the owner of the mortgage, even though the real owner may be a group of investors. Since it is Fannie Mae foreclosing, one would assume that they are the owners of the mortgage. But what if it's MERS?

AFAIK, MERS is set up to not be able to actually own anything.
So I'd ask the Judge, how can it repossess something it never actually owned?










I don't know if I can go to court or not, but I started developing a strategy for them...



They already demonstrated such a defeated passivity and inaction that you need to be proactive and basically do it all yourself.

:dunno


I know. Notwithstanding their passivity, what I meant was I don't know if I am legally allowed to go to court to represent them, not I don't know if I will be busy that day. You know like I walk in and start telling things to the judge and the judge dismisses me because I have no legal bearing in the matter. Can my aunt/uncle just say "this is my nephew, he's representing us" and there you have it?The Judge will not let you represent them before the Court unless you are an Attorney. But you might be able to help them as to what they should say.

[zap]

More info Madfranks, do they want to keep the house? is it underwater? can they dig up the 10 % to pay it off?

[Spectrism]

It would not hurt for them to ALSO assign you the "Power of Attorney" in real estate matters. Having this document in your folder could be kept under wraps and ONLY if pressed that you have no bearing on the case, then you could present it. Before that, I would only seek to assist the members and the court as an UNPAID ADVISOR who has an interest in the members in seeking to present and expose ALL pertinent information about this case so that a righteous and correct ruling may readily be rendered.

[Book]

More info Madfranks, do they want to keep the house? is it underwater? can they dig up the 10 % to pay it off?



Yep. Seems like there is "something" unmentioned that can explain why they are already resigned to give up and just walk away from that alleged 90% equity.

:)

[madfranks]

Not only is it not advisable, it's not possible to represent someone else without being a member of the bar in that state. The judge will ask who are you and then have you removed. To the peanut gallery if you're lucky...or somewhere else depending on how he feels that day.


I find it hard to believe that an ADVISOR would not be allowed to accompany anyone in court.




Thank you - that's what I meant. I'm not going to represent them, but to advise them. I also like palini's idea to buy out their interests for $1 and see if the judge will recognize it.

[madfranks]

More info Madfranks, do they want to keep the house? is it underwater? can they dig up the 10 % to pay it off?


Yes they want to keep the house, the house is not underwater, and they do not have the money to pay it off. Uncle is unemployed, aunt is disabled collecting SS disability.

[willie pete]

<10% of a balance left? ....can't they come up with that? what about some type of equity loan, seems like they could get that? ...IF I were that close..and with no other alternative..I'd put it on a CC...then put the property up for sale


That might be an option (If you can swing it), have them sell it to you for $10...and charge them "rent" ...what's the market value of the house?

[Book]

I also like palini's idea to buy out their interests for $1 and see if the judge will recognize it.



More likely have you arrested on the spot:


Elder financial abuse spans a broad spectrum of conduct, including:

* Taking money or property
* Forging an older person's signature
* Getting an older person to sign a deed, will, or power of attorney through deception, coercion, or undue influence
* Using the older person's property or possessions without permission
* Promising lifelong care in exchange for money or property and not following through on the promise
* Confidence crimes ("cons") are the use of deception to gain victims' confidence

http://www.preventelderabuse.org/elderabuse/fin_abuse.html



Read some Palini threads here...lol.

:ROFL:

[zap]

Somebody needs to get on the phone to an attorney and the bank and stop the proceedings, Get a hold of your family 10% come on, you can't let the bank take it oweing that little, see how much is left on the note and get a hold of your family and see if everyone can pitch in to help them keep it. Even on a 500,000 house Its only 50,000.

Get a hold of a lawyer right now, get the proceeding stopped or at the very least extended.

[sirgonzo420]

I also like palini's idea to buy out their interests for $1 and see if the judge will recognize it.



More likely have you arrested on the spot:


Elder financial abuse spans a broad spectrum of conduct, including:

* Taking money or property
* Forging an older person's signature
* Getting an older person to sign a deed, will, or power of attorney through deception, coercion, or undue influence
* Using the older person's property or possessions without permission
* Promising lifelong care in exchange for money or property and not following through on the promise
* Confidence crimes ("cons") are the use of deception to gain victims' confidence

http://www.preventelderabuse.org/elderabuse/fin_abuse.html



Read some Palini threads here...lol.

:ROFL:


LOL

I doubt that he'd be arrested if his aunt and uncle WILLINGLY sold him the house for $1.

He could buy out their interests, and agree to sell it back to them after he defeats the foreclosure.

Or, he could be present in court as COUNSEL. His aunt and uncle have a right to COUNSEL... their counsel doesn't have to be an attorney. Or he could have them fill out a "power of attorney" for real estate matters, as spectrism suggested.

[willie pete]

I also like palini's idea to buy out their interests for $1 and see if the judge will recognize it.



More likely have you arrested on the spot:


Elder financial abuse spans a broad spectrum of conduct, including:

* Taking money or property
* Forging an older person's signature
* Getting an older person to sign a deed, will, or power of attorney through deception, coercion, or undue influence
* Using the older person's property or possessions without permission
* Promising lifelong care in exchange for money or property and not following through on the promise
* Confidence crimes ("cons") are the use of deception to gain victims' confidence

http://www.preventelderabuse.org/elderabuse/fin_abuse.html



Read some Palini threads here...lol.

:ROFL:


LOL

I doubt that he'd be arrested if his aunt and uncle WILLINGLY sold him the house for $1.

He could buy out their interests, and agree to sell it back to them after he defeats the foreclosure.

Or, he could be present in court as COUNSEL. His aunt and uncle have a right to COUNSEL... their counsel doesn't have to be an attorney. Or he could have them fill out a "power of attorney" for real estate matters, as spectrism suggested.




As long as someone is in a "Sound" mind, you can sell you property for whatever you want too.....$10 Sales happen ALL the time

[madfranks]

More info Madfranks, do they want to keep the house? is it underwater? can they dig up the 10 % to pay it off?



Yep. Seems like there is "something" unmentioned that can explain why they are already resigned to give up and just walk away from that alleged 90% equity.

:)


This house has been in the family for decades, it was my grandparents house, fully paid for until my uncle took out an equity loan for some home improvements, then got laid off, was unable to pay, and now they're in foreclosure. It would be a damn shame if this house got taken away so I want to prevent it if I can. And as far as "why they are already resigned to give up", this has been going on for over a year where they've been fighting it, making payments when they can, trying to rollover the loan, trying to work out other options, etc., but the bank didn't cooperate, they finally got the foreclosure papers, and have now resigned themselves to their fate. It's not like they didn't try. What's done is done and now in the 11th hour I will see if there's anything I can do to keep the house.

[Book]

Nephew buys house for $1 from Disabled Elders Facing Foreclosure

:oo-->

Who wants to read that headline in the morning paper? Zap's advice to get a lawyer involved makes sense.

[zap]

That really sucks Madfranks, My sister was going to lose her house trailer after her divorce but she let me know well before foreclosure that she couldn't make the payments, so her and I went to the bank and I was put on title, and I ended up paying it off, wouldn't want her living with me ! :o and after all she had paid why let the bank take it back.

There has got to be a way to stop the proceedings, you gotta get a lawyer ,or get your name/ family member on title and make the payments. GET A LAWYER NOW, get off the internet and on the phone, if you really want to save their house.

Good Luck !

[LuckyStrike]

Somebody needs to get on the phone to an attorney and the bank and stop the proceedings, Get a hold of your family 10% come on, you can't let the bank take it oweing that little, see how much is left on the note and get a hold of your family and see if everyone can pitch in to help them keep it. Even on a 500,000 house Its only 50,000.

Get a hold of a lawyer right now, get the proceeding stopped or at the very least extended.


My thoughts exactly.

Kudos to you madfranks for stepping up, most people wouldn't.

It would be sad to lose a home that has been in the family for so long, the house my dad grew up in was sold when my grandma died, the neighborhood was turning into a ghetto which is why they sold it, but it's still sad to drive by and remember going over there and all your memories when it's trash living there now.

Good luck with everything, keep us posted.

[General of Darkness]

How big is this 10%?

[Libertytree]

Give'em hell madfranks! Good luck.

Win or lose though it's a helluva thing that you're doing for them, kudo's.

[zap]

Lessons in Borrowing, very sad. :boohoo

I live on a family ranch, been in my husbands family since 1850, its paid for, Great Grandma, Grandma, Mom and my husband, now me, would never consider taking any kind of a loan out on this property, and I will make sure I instill that into my daughters head before I go.

Sorry Madfranks I hope you will be able to help them somehow.

[7th trump]

Nephew buys house for $1 from Disabled Elders Facing Foreclosure

:oo-->

Who wants to read that headline in the morning paper? Zap's advice to get a lawyer involved makes sense.


What the f*ck is your problem Book?
Do you really hate your fellow man that much?
I hope your sadistic butt has a stroke and left nothing but saliva running out the side of your mouth. Or a car wreck where you are severely maimed and in pain for the rest of your life.

Get a freaken life Book.
Go talk to someone professional. You need serious help!

Sorry if this qualifies as an attac,k but I'm sick of reading this hatred demonstrated by book towards people.

[madfranks]

There has got to be a way to stop the proceedings, you gotta get a lawyer ,or get your name/ family member on title and make the payments. GET A LAWYER NOW, get off the internet and on the phone, if you really want to save their house.

Good Luck !


The bank refused their last payment of a couple thousand, sent it back. As far as a lawyer goes, we can't afford one.




How big is this 10%?


Bear with me on this, I'm learning the details as I go along. The original home equity loan was around $45,000, they've been paying it for 3-4 years, but once they stopped making payments the fees started adding up so now they actually owe more than when they started. So we're looking at $50,000 + to pay off the house. With a court date a couple weeks from now, that's not going to happen. The house is probably worth $200-$225k, and sans the penalties and fees, they owed less than $30k.

[zap]

Nephew buys house for $1 from Disabled Elders Facing Foreclosure

:oo-->

Who wants to read that headline in the morning paper? Zap's advice to get a lawyer involved makes sense.


What the f*ck is your problem Book?
Do you really hate your fellow man that much?
I hope your sadistic butt has a stroke and left nothing but saliva running out the side of your mouth. Or a car wreck where you are severely maimed and in pain for the rest of your life.

Get a freaken life Book.
Go talk to someone professional. You need serious help!

Sorry if this qualifies as an attac,k but I'm sick of reading this hatred demonstrated by book towards people.




Jesus, 7th

That was not very Christian like ! 2 wrongs don't make a right !

I'm sure it was a bad joke.

Don't be wishing bad stuff on people, Karma

[Dogman]

Nephew buys house for $1 from Disabled Elders Facing Foreclosure

:oo-->

Who wants to read that headline in the morning paper? Zap's advice to get a lawyer involved makes sense.


What the f*ck is your problem Book?
Do you really hate your fellow man that much?
I hope your sadistic butt has a stroke and left nothing but saliva running out the side of your mouth. Or a car wreck where you are severely maimed and in pain for the rest of your life.

Get a freaken life Book.
Go talk to someone professional. You need serious help!

Sorry if this qualifies as an attac,k but I'm sick of reading this hatred demonstrated by book towards people.




Off Topic..

Can you see the Love? ;D

Also feel book was being book! Wish we had a emotion for a horses ass! ;)

[Book]

If you would like to get involved offer to buy out their interests in the property (one dollar love and affection) and then show up in court representing your own interests.



Yeah...my bad for putting a spotlight on this "legal advice" that could get Madfranks arrested for financially exploiting his disabled family Elders.

|--0--|

[cedarchopper]

You need to get an attorney, yesterday! If they have a couple thousand dollars, as you referenced they sent the bank but was returned, that is enough to hire an attorney.

This needs to be handled by someone that knows what they are doing, this isn't time for school.

First thing Monday morning, get on the phone and make some appointments to talk to attorneys. With the amount of equity on the line here, you can find a way to work something out.

[cedarchopper]

If you would like to get involved offer to buy out their interests in the property (one dollar love and affection) and then show up in court representing your own interests.



Yeah...my bad for putting a spotlight on this "legal advice" that could get Madfranks arrested for financially exploiting his disabled family Elders.

|--0--|




You're full of it. Do you think the bank is going to get arrested for kicking them out on the street? All Real Estate Notes say "For $10 Dollars and other considerations".

[willie pete]

God forbid IF this goes south, where will they live? ..if they have that much equity in the house..be ashame to see it go...

[cedarchopper]

MadFranks, have you considered buying the house for the balance owed and let your aunt and Uncle rent from you for what they can afford? It sounds like a screaming BUY! Start scrambling and get the money together. Ask your family to lend it to you if you don't have it, and put them on the deed...

[JohnQPublic]

Madfranks, check out this site. This guy is one of the top attorneys for this type of thing. He is in Florida. He has forms you can download and strategies to follow. What you need now is more time, and if you ask for the right info., you may get it. Write a note asking for help, and you will probably get some responses.

http://livinglies.wordpress.com/

[Spectrism]

If you would like to get involved offer to buy out their interests in the property (one dollar love and affection) and then show up in court representing your own interests.



Yeah...my bad for putting a spotlight on this "legal advice" that could get Madfranks arrested for financially exploiting his disabled family Elders.

|--0--|





Yo... bookster.... what r u smokin? There is NO way he can get arrested for buying the house at any price. The only catch is he might have to pay a "fair value" conveyance tax.... but that is part of the closing.

It seems that uncle's credit is dead so there is no way he can borrow again.

The best option would be for another buyer (like Madfranks) to come in with a new mortgage against the property. You would need a delay in proceedings.

BUT- I would not give up on the original note requirement too.

[JohnQPublic]

Madfranks:

You need to go to MERS, and do a search to see if they [claim to] hold the title.

http://www.mersinc.org/homeowners/index.aspx

[Book]

MadFranks, have you considered buying the house for the balance owed and let your aunt and Uncle rent from you for what they can afford? It sounds like a screaming BUY! Start scrambling and get the money together. Ask your family to lend it to you if you don't have it, and put them on the deed...



:oo-->




[b]Elder financial abuse spans a broad spectrum of conduct, including:

* Taking money or property
* Forging an older person's signature
* Getting an older person to sign a deed, will, or power of attorney through deception, coercion, or undue influence
* Using the older person's property or possessions without permission
* Promising lifelong care in exchange for money or property and not following through on the promise

http://www.preventelderabuse.org/elderabuse/fin_abuse.html

[palani]

You might want to check the agreement that was signed to see if a cognovit (confession of judgment) is involved. Check the statutes of the state this is located in to see if these clauses are legal. In most states these clauses are not legal because due process cannot be voided in a contract. If this clause is present ask the court if they enforce illegal contracts these days.

[Cebu_4_2]

Madfranks,

Who is foreclosing? Chase? BOA? FNM? You need to know this first, then who have they been sending payments to. If any than who is on the deed/mortgage then you got a big angle.

You do NOT want to hire an attorney even if it was free! They are all in bed with the banksters and judges! Been there done that, they all are on the bank/courts side and they WILL lose the home.

What you need is a Consumer Advocate, they are not bedding down with said above. First thing you need to do is either find an advocate and or delay the court date ASAP. I will see if I can find some links for advocates, it took me almost 6 months to find one working in my area. Usually an advocate is more than happy to save people pain and can work out any payment arrangements. Also if the deed/mortgage was not transferred the sharp advocates can counter sue and get any paid monies to the fraudulent company back since the said date of transfer which didn't happen. Got your attention yet? Yes, if they paid any monies to anyone other than Chase that money will be refunded plus interest. They can use that money to pay the advocate! Plus have some left mattering on how long they were paying the fraudulent company. As long as the original title and the current company are different and the title was not transferred. If it was transferred did your aunt/uncle also sign this paper??? I don't think so... Fraud again.

Chase sold the loan, it is most likley with fannie may. Go to the county or court where these papers are registered (or online) and print EVERY paper with their last names on it, small price to pay. MERS has nothing, I have the rules here somewhere and they are instructed to unload the property ASAP. So now that you have the registered Deed and Mortgage papers from the court or county, was the deed/mortgage transferred? Most likely NOT. Good sign there.

One problem is that they have already been served but an advocate can work around it. I do NOT have a link directly to consumer advocates, I don't even know where the property resides. You could Probably Google 'consumer advocate your state'


http://www.mortgagelawnetwork.com/

http://mortgage-home-loan-bank-fraud.com/articles/stop_foreclosure.htm

http://mortgage-home-loan-bank-fraud.com/forclosure-help.htm

If you can't find anyone I can call mine and most likely get a referral for you.

[uranian]

a useful thread in 3 ways to me; that i wish madfranks the best (sorry dude, being of a different "legal" system, i can't offer any useful advice, other than from what i've seen of fraudclosure, focusing on getting them to produce the actual ownership papers is key), that our resident statist fool really is that (first time, including GIM, i've ever put someone on permanent ignore) really is that, and that joeQ isn't that.

good luck.

[sirgonzo420]

Nephew buys house for $1 from Disabled Elders Facing Foreclosure

:oo-->

Who wants to read that headline in the morning paper? Zap's advice to get a lawyer involved makes sense.



Yeah, just get an attorney... preferably someone who looks like this:

http://www.genderacrossborders.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/elena-kagan1.jpg




(Oh Zing! did I just pull a "book"?)





:oo--> - (no, *now* I pulled a "book" :P )


EDIT: I was just kidding about getting an attorney.

[Glass]

If a case if filed at the court then it should be possible to go to the court and view the case file. This is what attorneys do. In that file you should find the same documents that have been sent to your uncle and aunt. You may find additional documents as well meaning documents that were filed but your uncle and aunt were not notified of the filing.

There should be the documents notarising the validity of the note. i.e. Robosigning. Either your uncle and aunt have been sent a copy of this as part of the original documents which initiated the claim with the court or it has been filed with the clerk in the case file. It would be a good idea to accumulate this documentation to determine what kind of case the bank has. Does their Affidavit of Facts stack up. Are the documents atesting to the note valid. You might find that the signature is the same as the one widely publicized as a fraud in that it appears in a least 6 different forms and all coming from the same notary.

It would also be good for them to have some witnesses in the public gallery. Several, say 3 of good character, meaning no convictions or even a dozen would be better. To make testimony further down the track if required. You could probably give them all an affidavit to fill out in their own words of what they witnessed and have them sign that in front of a notary or someone equally empowered to witness affidavits. Doing that with a day or so of the hearing as a record for your aunt and uncles side. File it in the case file regardless of the outcome of this hearing. It would also be good moral support.

You need to see what the other side has. Look for holes in what they have and then drive the biggest freaking truck you can find right through it. I also think you can speak on behalf of your aunt and uncle without needing to be a lawyer, you just need authority from them and permission from the court. Check the courts rules.

Palani's advice is good. Wet ink signature on the note is the only acceptable evidence that a note might be valid. They have the right to demand it be presented to the debtor on the day.

Compare the mortgage document bundle your uncle and aunt have and make sure it is at least identical and the text is word for word the same on all the T&C's between what the bank presents and what your uncle and aunt posses.

and good luck to you and your family.

[StackerKen]

I don't know nuthin about this stuff....but it seems to me if 50K is owed on a 200K house, wouldn't it be better to sell it and pay off the loan, then it would be to let the bank have it?

[Cebu_4_2]

Nothing personal Glass, and good advice too. But he cant defend this at the current point, they have already been served. Next step is sheriff sale. He needs a consumer advocate, he cant defend shyt at this point it is the end paragraph of the elite rule. The court date sets the sheriff sale and his aunt uncle will have zero presence from madfranks to the judge that is in bed with them bankers. (we don't even know who they pay, who is foreclosing or who is named on the title yet) so everything is premature here.

Without that info no one has any idea which way to go. I recommend not representing them under defacto law that bars him from the court if he tries to help in defense.

We await more information to make better judgments on his defense. At this point Madfranks has absolute no athority in that court.

Lets wait for more info from the registered deed/title/mortgage before we give solid advice.

[madfranks]

Nothing personal Glass, and good advice too. But he cant defend this at the current point, they have already been served. Next step is sheriff sale. He needs a consumer advocate, he cant defend shyt at this point it is the end paragraph of the elite rule. The court date sets the sheriff sale and his aunt uncle will have zero presence from madfranks to the judge that is in bed with them bankers. (we don't even know who they pay, who is foreclosing or who is named on the title yet) so everything is premature here.

Without that info no one has any idea which way to go. I recommend not representing them under defacto law that bars him from the court if he tries to help in defense.

We await more information to make better judgments on his defense. At this point Madfranks has absolute no athority in that court.

Lets wait for more info from the registered deed/title/mortgage before we give solid advice.


I called my aunt up and they said the last payments they made were to Chase, but that is not who is foreclosing on them. She couldn't remember the name of the foreclosing company, so I asked her to find the documents, but my uncle had them and he was already asleep for the night, so I will find out tomorrow the entity foreclosing. I checked the county records online and found out who is recorded as owning the property, and it is FEDERAL HOME LOAN MORTGAGE. I eagerly await to see if that is the entity foreclosing them, and if it's someone/something else, then we've got something.

I also checked the MERS website and they have no record on the property, so that option is out.

I really want to thank palini and cebu for their advice, I can't tell you how encouraging you've been. :)

[Cebu_4_2]

Nothing personal Glass, and good advice too. But he cant defend this at the current point, they have already been served. Next step is sheriff sale. He needs a consumer advocate, he cant defend shyt at this point it is the end paragraph of the elite rule. The court date sets the sheriff sale and his aunt uncle will have zero presence from madfranks to the judge that is in bed with them bankers. (we don't even know who they pay, who is foreclosing or who is named on the title yet) so everything is premature here.

Without that info no one has any idea which way to go. I recommend not representing them under defacto law that bars him from the court if he tries to help in defense.

We await more information to make better judgments on his defense. At this point Madfranks has absolute no athority in that court.


Anything man, find out as much you can if they really want to keep it. PM me and ill give my phone number. Hopefully by then you can get that other info.

Lets wait for more info from the registered deed/title/mortgage before we give solid advice.


I called my aunt up and they said the last payments they made were to Chase, but that is not who is foreclosing on them. She couldn't remember the name of the foreclosing company, so I asked her to find the documents, but my uncle had them and he was already asleep for the night, so I will find out tomorrow the entity foreclosing. I checked the county records online and found out who is recorded as owning the property, and it is FEDERAL HOME LOAN MORTGAGE. I eagerly await to see if that is the entity foreclosing them, and if it's someone/something else, then we've got something.

I also checked the MERS website and they have no record on the property, so that option is out.

I really want to thank palini and cebu for their advice, I can't tell you how encouraging you've been. :)


Anything man, find out as much you can if they really want to keep it. PM me and ill give my phone number. Hopefully by then you can get that other info.

Lets wait for more info from the registered deed/title/mortgage before we give solid advice. It's not like tomorrow and the case can be delayed up to 24 hours... at least here it is allowed.

By 24 hours I mean 24 hours before court, they will probably put it back in 30 days, 60 or 90 days then the banksters will loose all the info LOL.

PM me man.

[Libertytree]

Madfranks: "I also checked the MERS website and they have no record on the property, so that option is out."

Awhile back I was researching the MERS situation and I read that their online database is so f'd up that it's not reliable and that those documents have to be supenoed (sp). Remember too, that MERS is NOT our friend but the evidence trail, if it exists, can lead to them and they will have to produce the docs. (that's from what I've read)

[7th trump]

Nephew buys house for $1 from Disabled Elders Facing Foreclosure

:oo-->

Who wants to read that headline in the morning paper? Zap's advice to get a lawyer involved makes sense.


What the f*ck is your problem Book?
Do you really hate your fellow man that much?
I hope your sadistic butt has a stroke and left nothing but saliva running out the side of your mouth. Or a car wreck where you are severely maimed and in pain for the rest of your life.

Get a freaken life Book.
Go talk to someone professional. You need serious help!

Sorry if this qualifies as an attac,k but I'm sick of reading this hatred demonstrated by book towards people.




Jesus, 7th

That was not very Christian like ! 2 wrongs don't make a right !

I'm sure it was a bad joke.

Don't be wishing bad stuff on people, Karma

Sorry Zap.............but even God has a limit!
You know what the problem with this world is?
Christians being wet noodles, thats the problem.
Book is over stepping his bounds.
A hundred years ago Christians would have taken Book out to the wood shed by now and he'd a had flogging like he never had. If it was 200 hundred years ago he'd hang for treason.
Or just taken out to the street and had it out with pistols.
And you want to judge me?
Books lucky its not hundred years ago. But then again judging books charactor he'd shot an innocent man in the back.

[zap]

Well 7th you do what you like, I don't wish any nasty/hateful things on anyone, Usually what comes around goes around.

Its a long story and I don't feel like typing that much, so I will just say this,

Sometimes If you wish something really ugly on someone, it ends up being your fate. Be careful . :)

[7th trump]

Well 7th you do what you like, I don't wish any nasty/hateful things on anyone, Usually what comes around goes around.

Its a long story and I don't feel like typing that much, so I will just say this,

Sometimes If you wish something really ugly on someone, it ends up being your fate. Be careful . :)





Zap dont worry about me. The Father knows me all to well. I'm not stepping out of any bounds unnessesary which gets you into trouble.
It takes alot to anger me and the sadistic comments coming from Book............well book just might want to cool it. Bad things happen to bad people like book.
If God see's fit to straighten up Book He will.
Put it this way, if Book likes setting up stumbling blocks for Gods children.....well the Father will see to it that Book gets a stumbling block of his very own.
Vengence is mine sayeth the all mighty!

[Dogman]

Well 7th you do what you like, I don't wish any nasty/hateful things on anyone, Usually what comes around goes around.

Its a long story and I don't feel like typing that much, so I will just say this,

Sometimes If you wish something really ugly on someone, it ends up being your fate. Be careful . :)





Zap dont worry about me. The Father knows me all to well. I'm not stepping out of any bounds unnessesary which gets you into trouble.
It takes alot to anger me and the sadistic comments coming from Book............well book just might want to cool it. Bad things happen to bad people like book.
If God see's fit to straighten up Book He will.
Put it this way, if Book likes setting up stumbling blocks for Gods children.....well the Father will see to it that Book gets a stumbling block of his very own.
Vengence is mine sayeth the all mighty!


There is a saying that I will not get right , and it goes like this "give a man enough rope" and he will hang himself, and that apply's to Internet forums and also in real life.

The person that you are referring to is digging a great hole for himself, all he needs is a tad more rope!

[Glass]

he's almost achieved his objective with this thread. Lets stay on task, ok? There are more important things at stake.

Thanks for the feeback cebu_4_2. I'll follow this thread with interest.

[undgrd]

The bank will not let them sell the house for $10 unless MadFranks comes up with the other $49,990+ to satisfy the HELOC. Remember...his aunt and uncle do not technically own the house.

MadFranks

If you think you can afford to buy the house for the remaining balance (IE getting a mortgage) you should consider it. If you go that route, be prepared for a time when you may have to ask them to leave. If they can't afford to pay it now, they may not be able to in the future.

Bottom line. If you can afford to pay all of your current bills PLUS the mortgage on the house, I'd say you'd be one hell of a great nephew!

[palani]

The bank will not let them sell the house for $10 unless MadFranks comes up with the other $49,990+ to satisfy the HELOC. Remember...his aunt and uncle do not technically own the house.

However they CAN assign their rights and obligations under their contract to someone else for $1 (love and affection). No one suggested buying the house. The move is to gain standing so that the interests represented are ones own rather than someone elses. Why would you think that the bank could sell their rights to the mortgage/note to another bank and yet the Aunt and Uncle have not the same power?

Should they get foreclosed and the sheriff moves them out don't believe for an instant that the action is complete. The lady interviewed on Adasks site was foreclosed 2 years ago and she is still giving the court system fits. At one time three separate banks were claiming to own her property at the same time.

[Book]

A hundred years ago Christians would have taken Book out to the wood shed by now and he'd a had flogging like he never had. If it was 200 hundred years ago he'd hang for treason. Or just taken out to the street and had it out with pistols.



http://www.museumofconceptualart.com/Jesusisms_vs_Bushisms/images/Turn%20Other%20Cheek.jpg

Always nice to see 7th spreading his Christian Love in these threads. Please keep us all updated as this progresses Madfranks.

:)

[Dogman]

30k Should be doable if several members in the family can chip in to help. As long as no one gets greedy and has the time, the house can be the home your parents want it to be. And later it can be passed on or sold and then the ones that chipped in can get the investment back + . Family is important and parents worked their asses off raising the kids (most) so if you are not an only child, and can get other family to chip in the monthly payments on 30k would / could be doable. If the value is 200k it would be almost a crime to let it go if the payoff is this close.

Just saying

[madfranks]

30k Should be doable if several members in the family can chip in to help. As long as no one gets greedy and has the time, the house can be the home your parents want it to be. And later it can be passed on or sold and then the ones that chipped in can get the investment back + . Family is important and parents worked their asses off raising the kids (most) so if you are not an only child, and can get other family to chip in the monthly payments on 30k would / could be doable. If the value is 200k it would be almost a crime to let it go if the payoff is this close.

Just saying


That would have been the proper course of action prior to being served foreclosure papers. Like I said I'm not terribly close to these relatives, and would they have been open with the whole family and asked everyone to come together and help them pay it off like 6 months ago, we probably would have found a way. As it is now, the last payment they tried to send in was returned. The bank is not interested in money any more, they want the house.

[Dogman]

30k Should be doable if several members in the family can chip in to help. As long as no one gets greedy and has the time, the house can be the home your parents want it to be. And later it can be passed on or sold and then the ones that chipped in can get the investment back + . Family is important and parents worked their asses off raising the kids (most) so if you are not an only child, and can get other family to chip in the monthly payments on 30k would / could be doable. If the value is 200k it would be almost a crime to let it go if the payoff is this close.

Just saying


That would have been the proper course of action prior to being served foreclosure papers. Like I said I'm not terribly close to these relatives, and would they have been open with the whole family and asked everyone to come together and help them pay it off like 6 months ago, we probably would have found a way. As it is now, the last payment they tried to send in was returned. The bank is not interested in money any more, they want the house.


Yea missed the part of them not being open.


Yes I agree the bank will take the house and resell it and get even more out of it than the 30k owed. Sucks but that is what the bastards do.

Sorry to say a lesson too late for the parents about asking for help!

Feel for you abt your troubles!

[madfranks]

So I just got off the phone with my uncle and he doesn't know who is foreclosing. He says he can't find the documents but he'll call the attorney (the bank's attorney) to find out who they are. It's hard for me to believe they don't even know this information or don't have the documents on hand, but they are very depressed at this point. They really have given up. I almost wanted to reach through the phone and smack him and say "What's wrong with you?!?!?" We'll see where we are on Monday.

Edit to add: I am now learning first hand how easy it is for banks to foreclose. The people of America have no spirit of resistance, or will to fight and defend themselves. They do what they are told without questioning anything.

[Spectrism]

So I just got off the phone with my uncle and he doesn't know who is foreclosing. He says he can't find the documents but he'll call the attorney (the bank's attorney) to find out who they are. It's hard for me to believe they don't even know this information or don't have the documents on hand, but they are very depressed at this point. They really have given up. I almost wanted to reach through the phone and smack him and say "What's wrong with you?!?!?" We'll see where we are on Monday.

Edit to add: I am now learning first hand how easy it is for banks to foreclose. The people of America have no spirit of resistance, or will to fight and defend themselves. They do what they are told without questioning anything.


If he needs to go to the bank's attorney for information, that IS sad. The attorney could say that all necessary documents have already been issued-- buh bye.

[skidmark]

There has got to be a way to stop the proceedings, you gotta get a lawyer ,or get your name/ family member on title and make the payments. GET A LAWYER NOW, get off the internet and on the phone, if you really want to save their house.

Good Luck !


The bank refused their last payment of a couple thousand, sent it back. As far as a lawyer goes, we can't afford one.




How big is this 10%?







Bear with me on this, I'm learning the details as I go along. The original home equity loan was around $45,000, they've been paying it for 3-4 years, but once they stopped making payments the fees started adding up so now they actually owe more than when they started. So we're looking at $50,000 + to pay off the house. With a court date a couple weeks from now, that's not going to happen. The house is probably worth $200-$225k, and sans the penalties and fees, they owed less than $30k.



Do you know how much is due including past due payments and bogus fees? That is why they are sending the partial payments back, if you have that amount you should be able to stop the foreclosure. Filing bankruptcy will also stop it.

Good luck, nobody should lose their house over a 10% note balance.

[solid]

As it is now, the last payment they tried to send in was returned. The bank is not interested in money any more, they want the house.


The bank returned the payment and wants the house. This is proof, the banks are a bunch of thieving bastards. These banksters are nothing but organized crime, backed by the government.

This makes me sick to read about.

I don't know anything about this stuff, but there's got to be a way of winning this fight. Let us know if there's anything in particular we can help with.

[steel_ag]

The attached post illustrates a possible solution according to hearsay :conf:

two other sources of info:

1. yahoo group Mortgage-Challenge

2. http://www.myprivateaudio.com/All-Foreclosure-site-Map.html

[undgrd]

The bank will not let them sell the house for $10 unless MadFranks comes up with the other $49,990+ to satisfy the HELOC. Remember...his aunt and uncle do not technically own the house.

However they CAN assign their rights and obligations under their contract to someone else for $1 (love and affection). No one suggested buying the house. The move is to gain standing so that the interests represented are ones own rather than someone elses. Why would you think that the bank could sell their rights to the mortgage/note to another bank and yet the Aunt and Uncle have not the same power?

If another bank is willing to take over the HELOC for the remaining balance and the current bank is willing to let them, the debt obligation will change hands. What you're describing requires no more than having a third party added to title which gives them the same claim and obligation to the property as Aunt and Uncle.

[Stop Making Cents]

Have they thought about filing bankruptcy to stop the foreclosure?

[Dogman]

And I apologize for thinking this was parents...Got it in my mind..and well!

Those that are removed by a thin line are more open to options, but stupid is

Try to buy out the contract, 30k + the bullshit.. long run..unless housing really
goes into the deep end, and I mean 0 it would be a investment..

My earlier posts I had it half right, It is up to you and your family to bail these if possable
people out.. but still try to get the property unless they put it back to real value 200k-300k
if they do piss on them and move on.

Just saying

[madfranks]

As it is now, the last payment they tried to send in was returned. The bank is not interested in money any more, they want the house.


The bank returned the payment and wants the house. This is proof, the banks are a bunch of thieving bastards. These banksters are nothing but organized crime, backed by the government.

This makes me sick to read about.

I don't know anything about this stuff, but there's got to be a way of winning this fight. Let us know if there's anything in particular we can help with.


Solid, I think you've hit the nail on the head. I talked with my aunt yesterday to try and get more information, and she told me that the latest phone calls they've received are all very threatening, to the tone of "you are illegally occupying our property and you will either leave or we will throw you out". Whoever this is who now claims to own the house, they are no longer interested in having any remaining debt paid off. They want the house, and then when they sell it they'll reap a nice profit.

[madfranks]

The bank will not let them sell the house for $10 unless MadFranks comes up with the other $49,990+ to satisfy the HELOC. Remember...his aunt and uncle do not technically own the house.

However they CAN assign their rights and obligations under their contract to someone else for $1 (love and affection). No one suggested buying the house. The move is to gain standing so that the interests represented are ones own rather than someone elses. Why would you think that the bank could sell their rights to the mortgage/note to another bank and yet the Aunt and Uncle have not the same power?

If another bank is willing to take over the HELOC for the remaining balance and the current bank is willing to let them, the debt obligation will change hands. What you're describing requires no more than having a third party added to title which gives them the same claim and obligation to the property as Aunt and Uncle.


We don't know who the current bank is, even my friggin aunt and uncle don't know who they are!!! All they know is they took the loan from Chase, Chase sold it to Fannie Mae, but the people foreclosing are someone else! And since we're T-minus 11 days from eviction date, there is no more time to work out terms of a new loan with another bank. The foreclosure is done. Honestly, I don't think the house will be saved, based on what I'm learning the past couple days, I think it's 99.99% a done deal. I'll keep digging for a hail mary, and if we're lucky enough to uncover any foreclosure fraud and if we get a miracle from the judge, maybe we can delay the eviction or something else to buy more time and work something out.

[Jazkal]

IANAL and I am just learning the legal system. So ignore me if I'm off track.

If the foreclosure case is still open, wouldn't a counter-suit halt up the action? Or would that just continue on it's own?

[solid]

I talked with my aunt yesterday to try and get more information, and she told me that the latest phone calls they've received are all very threatening, to the tone of "you are illegally occupying our property and you will either leave or we will throw you out". Whoever this is who now claims to own the house, they are no longer interested in having any remaining debt paid off. They want the house, and then when they sell it they'll reap a nice profit.


This sounds like collection agency tactics. Threatening, harassing phone calls. Since this is an equity line of credit being defaulted on, not a mortgage, could it be possible the bank sold the debt to a collections agency?

Again, I know nothing about this stuff, but something doesn't add up. It's very odd nobody seems to know who is trying to foreclose. Could a collections agency foreclose on a home?

I know collections agencies do some sneaky things, fake calls from the police, etc.

EDIT: Apparantly collections agencies can foreclose if there's a lien on the property, which in home equity loans, there most likely is.

Madfranks, if it is a collections agency attempting to foreclose from a lien on the property, they can not refuse payments, which they did, in your case. I'd bring that up with the judge. If anything, you may be able to draw out the process a bit more.

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/can-collection-agency-levy-lien-against-home-1693.html

[palani]

The foreclosure and eviction does not end the battle.

[mick silver]

why not just buy the house an let them make payments to you

[madfranks]

why not just buy the house an let them make payments to you


If only they would have asked the family to do something like that earlier. Too late now, nobody's taking any money at this time (last attempt payment was returned). The bank (?) wants the house and my aunt/uncle out.

[Cebu_4_2]

Only the entity listed on the original deed or title/mortgage can foreclose or their representative, NO one else has the legal right. This is where most people get it wrong. They assume that they are up shlt creek and don't pay attention to the legalities, just give up. BAC is trying to foreclose on me and I'm telling them to bring it on since there was never any assignment from the original. BAC is only a servicing agent, they own ZERO property but they collect the original loan amount, and then they can sell the property for 10 dollars and can collect the difference of the original mortgage and the sale amount. They get paid twice during this process. All this money is provided to them by the government. There is negative incentive to do the right thing.

The attorney representing the bank gets $1000 to work something out with the homeowner but get 3000 to foreclose.

[solid]

Only the entity listed on the original deed or title/mortgage can foreclose or their representative, NO one else has the legal right. This is where most people get it wrong.


There's no mortgage though. This is an equity loan in default. I still think that loan has been sold to a collection agency...that is the spidey senses going overdrive.

If a collection agency has a lien on the property, they can foreclose. This is my understanding.

My only question is why the harassing phone calls? That doesn't add up. If they had a leg to stand on, they wouldn't need to harass these folks. It is almost like they are trying to scare them, into something, legally, they shouldn't be.

This whole situation, stinks.

[Cebu_4_2]

Equity Loan? They might even have the paperwork if it was less than 3 years ago. Once it goes to collection they (the bank) can't foreclose because they have already written the loan off, and sold it for pennies to a 3rd party, they have absolutely NO interest in the property.

This sounds very likely to be a fraudulent foreclosure and steps need to be taken to halt it. Someone needs to fire off a counter suit in order to get documented proof that they even have the right to foreclose. Change the court date would be the first thing to do in this process. Then find a Consumer Advocate,

Like credit cards, once you default and a 3rd party tries to collect tell them to pound sand because the loan was already written off. The only thing they can do is harass you and that's why you go online and change all contact information.

http://www.naca.net/

[Cebu_4_2]

This might give you some ideas:

http://4closurefraud.org/2009/10/18/foreclosure-fraud-guide-to-looking-up-public-records-for-fraud/

[mick silver]

i just did a refi a month back . will last week i got a letter saying that fanny mae owns my house now but to keep making payment to the company i was with . this just pissed my off . i only own 45 t . i have brought homes an land for the last few years an sold the stuff to pay off my mine home an land . it look like there going to own every thing in this country before it over . maybe this was the plan from the start who know ..............

[madfranks]

I've refrained from updating this thread because honestly I've just been too upset with the way the events played out, and I needed to distance myself from it for a week or so. In a nutshell, the house is gone because the owners (my aunt and uncle) didn't care enough about it to do ANYTHING to save it. I found out that Fannie Mae offered to work out a payment plan to keep them in the house, and they sat on their offer and ignored it for a month. Why in the world would they ignore something like that? They insisted that some of the information on the forms wasn't filled out correctly, but instead of asking them to fix it or talk to someone about it, they ignored it, and eventually the house was foreclosed. I spent hours and hours gathering information that they could use as a "hail Mary", a "nothing left to lose" appeal for their court date, including pointing out the mistakes on the Fannie Mae paperwork. Many GSUS members offered me fantastic advice, information and links to helpful people and organizations, which I used to put together a plan of action for the court date. Well the court date came and guess what? They decided not to show up. Why? Well he said he was too tired and "it wouldn't have made a difference anyway". But what I've seen tells me it's more than that; it's a deep rooted apathy towards being proactive at anything in their lives. They literally just let it go. A $200,000+ house and property let go over a $30,000 home equity loan gone bad.

But what really pisses me off is how they treated me, my brother and my dad when we tried to help them move. We raised between us a better part of a thousand dollars to help with their first & last at their new rental, and we gave them cash that morning. We started packing and moving boxes when we inquired about the sheds on the lot. There were two sheds on this property, one that had a collapsed roof and had molded walls and ceiling, and had been open to the weather for what looked like years. My uncle said it was just trash, garbage and we didn't have to worry about it. Well, the treasure hunter in me had to know if we were leaving anything valuable behind so my brother and I went in and started rummaging around and guess what was in that shed? My late grandma's heirlooms and belongings, such as her sterling silverware set with her name engraved on some of the spoons, my great-great grandma's hand painted porcelain plates, and my grandma's wedding album. The sterling silver was strewn about the ground covered in molded paper and dirt, most of the porcelain plates were chipped or broken outright, and thank God the wedding album was "protected" under a pile of trash and moldy papers, and while the cover of the album was shot, the pictures inside were intact. There was more, like her collection of old vinyl records, but they were exposed to the weather so long they were useless. We discovered all of these objects and more after they told us it was trash and to leave it. Well once we found all of these things they started calling us thieves and my uncle actually came at my dad with a brick and told us to get out or they were calling the cops. This, after we gave them a better part of a thousand dollars cash and spent the first part of the day moving them. So we left, but my dad did take the wedding album since they were incompetent to take care of it.

Anyway, this whole thing was such a headache and we got nothing good out of helping this part of our family. My dad said he's washing his hands of the matter; that if they don't care enough to fill out the damn paperwork that could have saved their home, and if they were going to treat us all like criminals after helping them so much, that it's not worth offering to help anymore. It's too bad though, it was a nice house on a huge lot, worth a pretty penny and they let it go because they didn't care enough to put forth ANY effort whatsoever.

[Joe King]

Wow. I'd been wondering what ended up happening.

That is simply amazing. You have my sympathy.

[solid]

Sorry to hear Madfranks, I was hoping for the best as well.

It's frustrating when you try and help, and there is solutions, just to have the person roll over and give up. There's nothing you can do to change a person giving up.

[k-os]

I am so sorry, madfranks. I think they are suffering from depression, or worse . . . dementia.

[Spectrism]

Wow madfranks! No good deed will go unpunished. If I were you (not knowing how big the family is) I would write this all up in a letter to the family. When they start bad-mouthing you, let the facts out. Definitely get as far away from them as you can. They will suck the life out of you if you let them.

[willie pete]

sometimes it's family that does the most damage

[ximmy]

Yeah, I'd have to say they (aunt & uncle) are in a comatic beaten state right now... You did more than you were called upon to do... that's what makes a winner out of you...
ximy

[zap]

Sorry Madfranks, I would have took the silver anyway :D Call the cops, who cares.
Again I am sorry, glad for the pictures though, those are priceless.

[madfranks]

Sorry Madfranks, I would have took the silver anyway :D Call the cops, who cares.
Again I am sorry, glad for the pictures though, those are priceless.


Thanks Zap; we actually sifted through all the molded boxes and trash to find what we believe is the complete set of sterling silverware, and found the box to put them all back in. It was a very substantial set; with some large serving spoons and forks all stamped "sterling", the set was probably on the order of 50-60 oz of silver. My dad told me he almost challenged them to keep it, because over this year+ of unemployment for them he personally has given them thousands of dollars to help with groceries and medications, etc. But my dad is a bigger person than to fight family over what is, when it's all said and done, simply a material possession.

Actually after all of this I learned some things about my aunt and uncle I'd never known before; my dad told me some stories and basically this is not the first time he has offered a substantial amount of help to be given nothing but spite and anger in return. Like he told me, he's washing his hands of the matter. I guess I now know why I was never close to them... :(

[Gaillo]

madfranks,
I'm sorry to hear about the outcome of this... you deserve much better, and it sounds like your uncle deserves much worse! ;)

[k-os]

Actually after all of this I learned some things about my aunt and uncle I'd never known before; my dad told me some stories and basically this is not the first time he has offered a substantial amount of help to be given nothing but spite and anger in return. Like he told me, he's washing his hands of the matter. I guess I now know why I was never close to them... :(


It's humiliating to accept financial help from anyone, particularly a sibling. It is, in essence, admitting failure. It takes a special person to accept financial help and be able to emotionally and mentally handle it. (This excludes drug addicts and those without a conscience whatsoever, in which case no loan should ever be given.)

In all fairness, the lender should be a special person too. When I lent money to my sister, I couldn't help but notice the purchases that she made that I felt didn't help her situation. $50 department store makeup, delivery pizza, etc. Never one to hold my tongue, I would tell her that if she didn't spend $50 on make-up and $20 on pizza, she might have money to pay her rent. This started fights, and she really didn't understand that $50 * 12 equaled her rent (which I had paid, along with vet bills, mechanic bills and various other emergencies).

Basically, I had a set of rules in my head that she should follow to get herself on track. Particularly because I had never bought $50 makeup - it was outrageous to me. (This was over 10 years ago,) So, these are colloquially referred to as "strings". ;) She wasn't aware of the strings, and I was incensed by her breaking some imaginary rules.

So in my personal story, you can see where bitterness might have arrived, and I am not entirely innocent. If I had terms, I should have stated them when I loaned her the money, and I did not.

What I learned from this: Don't lend money to a friend unless you are willing to lose the money or you are willing to lose the friend. That is a k-os original, as far as I know.

[Book]

...I learned some things about...



I wasn't always this sardonic and cynical myself madfranks. Consider this cheap tuition in the School Of Human Nature. Thanks for keeping us updated.

:)

[ShortJohnSilver]

Madfranks, sorry to hear about the issue.

At the least your conscience is clear, in that you did in fact show up and try to help out your family. No regrets should be felt for your actions; small comfort at the moment, I suppose.

[PatColo]

Terribly sorry to hear of your experience Franks. Some parts resonated, different circumstances though. Lost my pops early this year at age 79... nothing unexpected, details aside he basically "died of old age". So the surviving bro's & I were were clearing out his house, and even his "broken down shed", and the specific items of real or sentimental/family value you mentioned, were exactly the kinds of things we were going through. Thankfully we were spared the drama you endured; our main dilemma was, which one of us 3 confirmed bachelors wants to store this stuff, and if none of us, what do we properly do with it?!

As to your aunt/uncle's disposition, failure to fight etc; I agree with some of the sentiments above, that it sounds like they're depressed, broken, etc. Reminded of this article,

Are Americans a Broken People? Why We've Stopped Fighting Back Against the Forces of Oppression (http://www.alternet.org/story/144529/are_americans_a_broken_people_why_we%27ve_stopped_ fighting_back_against_the_forces_of_oppression/?page=entire)

And yes, the banksters do represent the ultimate forces of oppression which the public endures on this earth. Mike Ruppert (http://collapsenet.com/) has a subscriber-only story right now, I don't subscribe, but the tease is:


BIG BANK MORTGAGE MODIFICATION PROGRAMS ARE INTENDED TO INCREASE FORCLOSURE NUMBERS – THE RAPE OF THE AMERCIAN HOMEOWNER CONTINUES

AN INSIDER AT ONE OF AMERICA’S BIG 5 BANKS BLOWS THE WHISTLE ON WHAT BANKS REALLY DO WHEN YOU ASK FOR A LOAN MODIFICATION

IF YOU HAVE EQUITY THE BANK’S JOB IS TO SNATCH YOUR HOME AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE

[Cebu_4_2]

My sales date is the 28th, I am completely fubarred, my attys dropped the ball last minute. I wish I could sell this shyt for 100k over and ill GTF outta here. This cuntry is crumbling and I want out now.

[beefsteak]

Thanks for risking and sharing, Madfranks. That's about as rough as it gets. I know you will be karma repaid for what you did do with a generous heart. It is so very tough to watch "family" reap what they've sown in apathy. You're in our prayers.

[beefsteak]

Cebu-
you are in a bad way also. I'm so sorry to hear that.

Is MERS mixed up in your situation as well? Can you lay out the facts regarding your attorney dropping the ball and get an extension?

beef

[StackerKen]

I had stopped reading this thread because it was sad and frustrating.
I feel for you and the rest of your family Madfranks. :-\

[steel_ag]

my attys dropped the ball last minute.


time for submitting bar grievances...

[beefsteak]

No kidding, steel-ag,

One time, I went to a presiding judge who was head of the local BAR. I asked for 5 minutes. I got them. After he was convinced I had standing in the matter upon which I wanted to comment, I told him my facts. He promised to look into it and he did.

The attorney I reported, lost his bar license and promptly moved out of the country (costa rica). My side prevailed. Who is it on this forum who taught us the old saying, "be sure you're right, then go ahead."

Best 5 minutes I ever spent! ;D Didn't cost me a dime.

beefsteak

[Neuro]

My sales date is the 28th, I am completely fubarred, my attys dropped the ball last minute. I wish I could sell this shyt for 100k over and ill GTF outta here. This cuntry is crumbling and I want out now.
I am sorry to hear that. What did your lawyer say as reason for his treason of your trust?

For Madfranks I just want to say that I know your intentionsk were good, and unfortunately your relatives didn't deserve it, but I do think scores are kept somewhere, it will not serve you to become bitter over this, and I am pretty sure you won't!

[FunnyMoney]

I've refrained from updating this thread because honestly I've just been too upset

...I went in and started rummaging around and guess what was in that shed? My late grandma's heirlooms and belongings, such as her sterling silverware set with her name engraved on some of the spoons, my great-great grandma's hand painted porcelain plates, and my grandma's wedding album. The sterling silver was strewn about the ground covered in molded paper and dirt, most of the porcelain plates were chipped or broken outright, and thank God the wedding album was "protected" under a pile of trash and moldy papers, and while the cover of the album was shot, the pictures inside were intact. There was more, like her collection of old vinyl records, but they were exposed to the weather so long they were useless. We discovered all of these objects and more after they told us it was trash and to leave it. Well once we found all of these things they started calling us thieves ...



This is the mindset of the spectator, they are all around us, they can be found even in our own inner family. I have an entire thread on the spectator, called the "80% spectator" or something like that, I need to look it up again, your post about how your relatives acted would be perfect there. They treated the corrupt banking system (responsible for their own problems and many many more, including mass murder and suffering around the world) actually better than they treated you and your dad, their own family.

The spectator wants to be a spectator, they go to the games (the colloseum of history) and cheer on the tigers at one moment and the slave the next. If they have to send the guy seated next to them in the arena they don't care. Even if they have to send their own blood to the slaughter, their own children off to war, or even their daughter to sacrifice - they do it. They throw up their hands and say, "it's in God's hands now." But the reality is that it remains in their hands, always did and always will. It's not God's fault that they decided to throw away the gift of individual free will and give up liberty and personal responsibility for some semblance of security.

I agree with your dad. It's done, erase them from your list of friends. Teach the lesson of individual responsibility, life and love to those closest to you and hope they will want to go through their lives as more than simply a spectator.

[StackerKen]

Madfranks; Maybe you could offer to buy the silverware at spot?

So they don't get totally ripped off when they go to pawn it?

And you could keep it in the family that way?

I dunno...just a thought

[Joe King]

Madfranks; Maybe you could offer to buy the silverware at spot?

So they don't get totally ripped off when they go to pawn it?

And you could keep it in the family that way?

I dunno...just a thought

If I had found all that in that type of shape, I'd have never told them about it and just started carrying it all out to the car while telling them I'd do 'em a favor and haul it off to the dump for them.

Once they say it's trash, then AFAIC, it's trash. You just couldn't act as though you'd actually found something of worth to you.

[madfranks]

Madfranks; Maybe you could offer to buy the silverware at spot?

So they don't get totally ripped off when they go to pawn it?

And you could keep it in the family that way?

I dunno...just a thought


Actually my bro tried to offer to buy them to keep them in the family, but my crazy aunt has this idea that the set is worth $30,000-$40,000, so they don't want to sell it to us for less than that. If I had been there my next question would have been "why didn't you sell it then to save the house?" The answer is because they didn't know it was there. They will be in for a surprise when they take it to a pawn shop and are offered $500-700 for the set.



If I had found all that in that type of shape, I'd have never told them about it and just started carrying it all out to the car while telling them I'd do 'em a favor and haul it off to the dump for them.

Once they say it's trash, then AFAIC, it's trash. You just couldn't act as though you'd actually found something of worth to you.




Yeah, neither my dad or I was planning on telling them, after all they did say it was all trash, and they sure treated it as trash. But my little bro decided it would be nice to let them know and offer to give them money to keep the silverware. His intentions were good, I mean, they do need money, so he told them what we found and offered to pay them to keep it. His mistake was in assuming that they were reasonable people. That's when the fun started.

[Joe King]

Did ya at least give your little bro a smack upside the head? :D

[chad]

WTF man? that's insane.

[Road Runner]

I have been following your story and was so sorry for the outcome. I can't imagine losing a home and especially one that had been in the family so long.
If they didn't take care of the family heirlooms before, they probably won't now either. Too bad.
Looking at it from a positive prospective, maybe this story will help someone to re-think putting a mortgage on their house. I don't know, but it looks like that was the start of the troubles.
Thanks for sharing.

[Son-of-Liberty]

Sorry to hear this turned out so bad Madfranks. I haven't been spending much time at GSUS lately so didn't see this thread until today. Well you tried to help them and should feel good about that even if your uncle and aunt didn't repay your kindness.

Sounds like they are their own worst enemy though. When people are like that there is not much you can do and any money or loans they get from family usually just fuels the self destructive behaviors. I would distance myself from them and not waste any more physical or emotional energy on such self destructive and unappreciative people.

[Cebu_4_2]

My sales date is the 28th, I am completely fubarred, my attys dropped the ball last minute. I wish I could sell this shyt for 100k over and ill GTF outta here. This cuntry is crumbling and I want out now.
I am sorry to hear that. What did your lawyer say as reason for his treason of your trust?


He went into "foreclosure" mode is the only option. Yet months ago he said as soon as I get a sales date we will go to the county court and file some papers and stop the sale due to no transfer of title... I at that time did not understand all the legalese he was saying and couldn't have even written it down. I have not counted him out as of yet. He for whatever reason asked me to pull copies of all the deed/title/mortgage at the court building which I complied and emailed, no response at all yet but that was afternoon Friday.

I met with another attorney on Friday who talked the talk on the phone but in person he said the only thing I can do besides bankruptcy is record conversations with the bankster and get them to say that my documents are pending a review. He says with just that alone recorded can stop the sale. But he might change his mind again. I will try to do this tomorrow and see what he says if I can pull it off.

He also stated that in Michigan MERS does stand in court, that there were only 2 cases rejected due to MERS. Etc.

This is exactly how attorneys and my 1st divorce went, once it is all done and over with there was so much more that should have been perused but was not. I do not enjoy being told one thing and last minute something that I stated right in the beginning that I did not want to pursue (Bankruptcy).

I have another call to make tomorrow and see if I can get any other angles, advice or referrals.

[Joe King]

He also stated that in Michigan MERS does stand in court, that there were only 2 cases rejected due to MERS. Etc.
Hey, nothing wrong with being number 3 :D

Find those cases and read 'em. If there have in fact been cases rejected due to MERS, then there has to be a reason as to why those were and others weren't.

You need to find out why, and see if you can make an argument that the same reason applies to you too.

[Cebu_4_2]

He also stated that in Michigan MERS does stand in court, that there were only 2 cases rejected due to MERS. Etc.
Hey, nothing wrong with being number 3 :D

Find those cases and read 'em. If there have in fact been cases rejected due to MERS, then there has to be a reason as to why those were and others weren't.

You need to find out why, and see if you can make an argument that the same reason applies to you too.


Wrong, the judges here are all bought and paid for, what I need to do is find them attorneys if still living and hire them. MI courts are the next best thing to CA courts except CA has more sharp attys than here. we's got slim pickins here. The ones that do practice are afraid of the judges, if the make a sting on any legal issue the judges will file for them to be disbarred... which puts the attys out of business till they can make their way through it. There is NO WAY IN HELL to make any case on your own here, nothing NODDA. This was not supposed to get to this point in any way shape or form and I was comfortable. Now not quite, like my heat going off, the car dying, the roof falling in, someone with no interest selling my home.

But thanks Joe, I am looking up them 2 cases to see if the guys are still alive, will sell silver for help at this point.

[Joe King]

Well, the way I'd look at it is if it's for all practical purposes a lost battle anyways, what have I got to lose not to try it myself?

If the lawyer is scared of the Judge due to his own potential disbarment, then he isn't putting you as the client, first.
Therefore, you have nothing to lose in going in there yourself and making as big a stink as necessary, legally speaking of course, to get the job done.
Because the Judge can't dis-bar you.


A paid lawyer will never want to put forth the type of arguments that are potentially of the apple cart dumping variety, due to the very reason you point out.
Sure, you might win, but he might find himself out of work.

[Meliorist]

Sorry to hear about your family's situation madfranks. I assume they didn't get removed by the sheriff (they should have been offered cash for keys well before that point for that property). Has the house been sold yet? It would likely go to auction and often the bidding starts at what was owed; perhaps you could buy it there cheap?

[Cebu_4_2]

cash for keys grows to an unbelievable amount of 1500 bux. 50 silver coins... next comment?

[madfranks]

Sorry to hear about your family's situation madfranks. I assume they didn't get removed by the sheriff (they should have been offered cash for keys well before that point for that property). Has the house been sold yet? It would likely go to auction and often the bidding starts at what was owed; perhaps you could buy it there cheap?


They left before the sheriff came, but since it's been about two weeks now, I can't imagine the house has been sold yet. I would love a chance to buy the house at auction, but I'm unemployed and don't have that much capital.

[Meliorist]

I would love a chance to buy the house at auction, but I'm unemployed and don't have that much capital.
Well, if you don't think any of your family members would be able & willing either why not post the state and date of the auction and see if anyone here is? I for one wouldn't mind helping you keep it in the family if I could be sure I wasn't being taken (and if the equity you state is accurate, it sounds possible if there isn't much competition at auction). I wouldn't travel far out of my way to investigate or bid on that possibility however, it'd have to be an east coast state.