If they taxed PM's would that drive the price higher to compensate for tax?

[Filthy Keynes]

If they taxed PM's would that drive the price higher to compensate for the tax?

[Twisted Titan]

If they taxed PM's would that drive the price higher to compensate for the tax?




Gold and Silver are ALLODIAL ITEMS

That means being beyond the reproach of anything or anyone UNLESS YOU WILLFULLY ELECT TO SUBMIT TO IT

Smart people dont submit.

Especially to crap they saw coming a mile away and made provisions to prepare for it.

[Sparky]

No, it would drive the price lower.

[Neuro]

I guess one can argue that by inflating the supply of paper silver and gold, and the price of real gold and silver is tied still to the price of paper gold/silver, that gold and silver is being taxed, just like a paper currency is being taxed by the increased printing of money, aka inflation tax... This tax is valid now in that gold and silver is undervalued and you get a proportion of what is yours when you sell it according to how undervalued the metals are, but on the other hand you probably bought it at an undervalued price too. In the case of the collapse of the paper market, the tax levied on paper gold/silver will be 100% iow you lose everything, and in terms of physical gold and silver 0%, since it will resume it's non-suppressed value...

[Ash_Williams]

No.
Secondly it would increase the percent you lose when doing any legit transaction.

[Silver Shield]

Depending on how high the tax was it would dry up the physical market.

I will never pay taxes on my stash, once I learn how to Scuba dive.

When the time is right I will use it as collateral to buy investment properties.

Can't tax what they cannot find or sell.

[Sparky]

Depending on how high the tax was it would dry up the physical market.

I will never pay taxes on my stash, once I learn how to Scuba dive.

When the time is right I will use it as collateral to buy investment properties.

Can't tax what they cannot find or sell.



I think the O.P. was referring to sales tax, and not capital gains tax.

[mick silver]

i just wish i had got some silver an gold . but i didnt listern to you guys now it to high

[big country]

I have to pay sales tax on all gold or silver bought in a coin shop. but if the shop is just selling it on consignment then there is no tax (which is a loophole I sometimes get to use. depending on what my local shop has..) Still, at 6% (West Virginia) it is usually cheaper then shipping in the lots I usually buy in ($250-$500)

[Dogman]

Someone correct me If I am wrong please!

My understanding is if you hold physical, you owe nothing to anyone if you do not sell.

Your metal can double in price, but until you sell, you can not be taxed, (If they knew you did and had to report)

This is an area that I am very thin on, The way I look at it the value of my metal doubled , but since it was never sold so I have no gains to put into my pocket, it just sits and is at the mercy of the market!

? This is one question that I have never found a clear answer.


Thanks in advanced!

[big country]

You don't have a "gain" until you sell. Same thing applies to stocks, bonds, collector cars, Cal Ripken Jr Rookie cards, etc.

No cap gains until you sell. But if I understand it right you can "trade" gold bars for gold coins (like kind trade) w/o tax, but if you trade gold for silver you would have to technically claims a cap gain.

[Sparky]

Someone correct me If I am wrong please!

My understanding is if you hold physical, you owe nothing to anyone if you do not sell.

Your metal can double in price, but until you sell, you can not be taxed, (If they knew you did and had to report)

This is an area that I am very thin on, The way I look at it the value of my metal doubled , but since it was never sold so I have no gains to put into my pocket, it just sits and is at the mercy of the market!

? This is one question that I have never found a clear answer.


Thanks in advanced!




In that situation, you cannot be taxed on capital gains.

But to the original post, what if there were a 50% sales tax when you purchased it. How would that effect the price? Here in Massachusetts, there is a 6.25% sales tax for PM purchases under $1000. I think it was originally intended to protect dealers-to-dealer transactions from being taxed.

[Plastic]

Please allow me to attach my own tax question to this post.

Lets say silver actually does reach above parity with gold (say 2 ozt of gold for 1 ozt of silver) and we trade up 1 for 1.5, then at a later date the ratio goes back to 40 for 1 and we trade back at 36 for 1. We traded metal for metal with a private dealer and did not deal with paper money at all. In both cases we technically traded at a loss since we did not get the actual trade rate even though we end up with a massive increase in silver.

Is there a tax due on the increase even without paper money exchanging hands?

EDIT:

Twisted, Silver Shield

I'm just wondering about the technicalities, I understand and agree with your viewpoints.

I always thought you could only be taxed if you made profit in paper dollars since gold and silver are not money in satans system.

[Dogman]

thought I was legal... ;D ;D ;D

Thank you all !!!

[Sparky]

Please allow me to attach my own tax question to this post.

Lets say silver actually does reach above parity with gold (say 2 ozt of gold for 1 ozt of silver) and we trade up 1 for 1.5, then at a later date the ratio goes back to 40 for 1 and we trade back at 36 for 1. We traded metal for metal with a private dealer and did not deal with paper money at all. In both cases we technically traded at a loss since we did not get the actual trade rate even though we end up with a massive increase in silver.

Is there a tax due on the increase even without paper money exchanging hands?

EDIT:

Twisted, Silver Shield

I'm just wondering about the technicalities, I understand and agree with your viewpoints.

I always thought you could only be taxed if you made profit in paper dollars since gold and silver are not money in satans system.


In your example, if you started with 1 ounce of silver, you would end up with 80 ounces of silver. My guess is that once you start to sell your silver for paper dollars, they will count the cost of your original one ounce as your cost basis, and everything above that would be considered a gain.

But, who really knows? It's vague enough that there might not be a clear answer. Which is why our friggin' complex system of taxation is a joke.

[vacuum]

Tax only applies when FRNs are moved. Correct?

[mick silver]

every time i go to my local coin shop i pay taxes .

[Filthy Keynes]

Thanks for all the good responses and questions.

My original thought was this:

If the gov charged 50% sales tax on buying PM's, then doesn't that really mean that the "real price" of gold is now that additional "50%" higher? That would have the effect of less people selling and through supply and demand that would mean less gold available and therefore the spot price would rise to compensate for all the tax.

Just wondering what your thoughts are on that theory. I haven't found this topic discussed much on the blogs etc.

[Sparky]

...
If the gov charged 50% sales tax on buying PM's, then doesn't that really mean that the "real price" of gold is now that additional "50%" higher? That would have the effect of less people selling and through supply and demand that would mean less gold available and therefore the spot price would rise to compensate for all the tax.
...


No, it would have the effect of less people buying, since the tax is paid by the buyer and not the seller. That would mean less demand and lower price.

Talking about "real price"...there is already a sales tax in many states, but this is not currently reflected in the spot price.

Think about it...if tomorrow they added a 50% tax and the point-of-sale price went from $1400 to $2100, do you think there would be more or less interest in buying at the new price? And if you went to sell what you had, you'd really only be pocketing $1400 for it, while Uncle Sam would pocket $700. What would you consider the "real price" to be?

[Filthy Keynes]

if tomorrow they added a 50% tax and the point-of-sale price went from $1400 to $2100, do you think there would be more or less interest in buying at the new price? And if you went to sell what you had, you'd really only be pocketing $1400 for it, while Uncle Sam would pocket $700. What would you consider the "real price" to be?


With gold it's a little different, I believe. I could consider the "real price" to be $2100 since if you own $2099 you don't have enough paper to buy one.

I'm thinking that the tax "effectually" would be on the seller's side, not the buyers side. Hence nobody would want to sell hence lower supply hence higher price... In other words, the tax isn't the mark-UP price when you buy, it's the mark-DOWN price when you sell.

[Spectrism]

When you buy a silver coin/ bullion (no numimatic value), you are exchanging the fair value of the metal (plus fees) for the FRNs. No profit. Even exchange.

When you sell that bullion, you again are exchanging the metal for an
equal value" of FRNs. No profit. Even exchange.


Here is their lie. They devalue the FRN by stealing its wealth from your savings and stealing your buying power- as most people trade hours for dollars. They steal from your labors in devaluing the money they force you to accept. Now that they have already stolen the value, they are not finished. Next they want to steal the "profits" which they are calling that increase between buying & selling, as if the FRNs have been a stable and accurate measurement of wealth. In actuality, your wealth has not increased but their measure (allowing more taxes) has increased.

[Twisted Titan]

I have to pay sales tax on all gold or silver bought in a coin shop. but if the shop is just selling it on consignment then there is no tax (which is a loophole I sometimes get to use. depending on what my local shop has..) Still, at 6% (West Virginia) it is usually cheaper then shipping in the lots I usually buy in ($250-$500)




That is just extra cream he is taking off the top

I would try to find someone else to buy from.


I dont pay taxes to buy money...... something that just sounds beyond asine



T

[Sparky]

I have to pay sales tax on all gold or silver bought in a coin shop. but if the shop is just selling it on consignment then there is no tax (which is a loophole I sometimes get to use. depending on what my local shop has..) Still, at 6% (West Virginia) it is usually cheaper then shipping in the lots I usually buy in ($250-$500)




That is just extra cream he is taking off the top

I would try to find someone else to buy from.


I dont pay taxes to buy money...... something that just sounds beyond asine



T


You must be in a PM tax-free state, TT. It is asinine, but most dealers adhere to this because they don't want to put their business at risk. I avoid small purchases for this reason, because I've had to pay tax on them, even using many different dealers.

Agree, though, that a tax on money is absurd.

[1970 silver art]

I have to pay sales tax on all gold or silver bought in a coin shop. but if the shop is just selling it on consignment then there is no tax (which is a loophole I sometimes get to use. depending on what my local shop has..) Still, at 6% (West Virginia) it is usually cheaper then shipping in the lots I usually buy in ($250-$500)


If I buy silver from coin shops in Tennessee, then I have to pay a 9.25% total sales tax (7% state sales tax + 2.25% county sales tax). However, since I live near Georgia, I travel just over the state line and buy silver from the local coin shops there since there is no sales tax on bullion when it is purchased in Georgia.

[Filthy Keynes]

I'm still not clear on this sales tax thing. In a FREEGOLD scenario where gold is allowed to float freely it would be impossible to tax it, no? I'm still trying to work my mind around this, but I don't see how it is possible to tax gold. All they would end up doing is increasing the spot price and driving the gold away from the district where they taxed it - thus leading to a shortage and then supply/demand would ramp up the price to compensate for the tax - thus no tax.

I'm not saying I have the answer and I'm not necessarily saying that I agree with myself, but it is something that I am trying to mind-bend. Freegold is totally and completely and entirely FREE - and that includes taxation (both sales tax and capital gains tax).

Isn't this the FEAR that the elite has? Look what Adolf Hitler said: ‎"Gold in the hands of the public is an enemy of the state." ~ Adolf Hitler. Why would he say it if it wasn't true - that gold is the anti-establishment; completely free?

http://reinep.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/hitler-in-chile.jpg


PS: The only way they could TAX GOLD is if they shaved off a certain percentage of the gold and hand-delivered it to the IRS.