Do you believe that the Devil exists? How about Satan?

[BillBoard]

I have been trying to find the difference between the Devil and Satan. Or if they are one and the same, but much like Usury or any esoteric subject, there seems to be a clear attempt at getting people to be confused about the subject.

Do any of you have any good reading recommendations on the subject?

[JDRock]

I have been trying to find the difference between the Devil and Satan. Or if they are one and the same, but much like Usury or any esoteric subject, there seems to be a clear attempt at getting people to be confused about the subject.

Do any of you have any good reading recommendations on the subject?


an old book called "dying testimonies of the saved and unsaved"....it gives eyewitness accounts of when people died in the old days...they were not drugged into a stupor when they passed intp eternity...many famous people as well...really really scary.

[gunDriller]

I have been trying to find the difference between the Devil and Satan. Or if they are one and the same, but much like Usury or any esoteric subject, there seems to be a clear attempt at getting people to be confused about the subject.

Do any of you have any good reading recommendations on the subject?


the world has enough Devil-equivalents, e.g. Dick Cheney & Bibi Netanyahu and BP and their buddies behind the scenes.

why worry about possibly fictional entities when there highly dangerous real-world Devil-equivalents running around ?

oh ... shame on me. i forgot to mention

O B A M A

[Awoke]

I have been trying to find the difference between the Devil and Satan. Or if they are one and the same, but much like Usury or any esoteric subject, there seems to be a clear attempt at getting people to be confused about the subject.

Do any of you have any good reading recommendations on the subject?


the world has enough Devil-equivalents, e.g. Dick Cheney & Bibi Netanyahu and BP and their buddies behind the scenes.

why worry about possibly fictional entities when there highly dangerous real-world Devil-equivalents running around ?

oh ... shame on me. i forgot to mention

O B A M A


The new world order conspirators you mentioned believe in (and worship) lucifer.
What do they know that you don't know?

[Book]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/138/379043537_a4f05d0067.jpg

Gotta invent somebody to blame...lol.

:oo-->

[Ash_Williams]

I don't beleive any evil supernatural god-like thing ruling over souls in hell and causing all the problems in the world exists.

The old characters that satan today is based on... maybe there was something to them.

[Twisted Titan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl0H1EUQ_38

[TheNocturnalEgyptian]

I honestly don't know.




I'll leave you with this thought. It was espoused by Saul Mine and I have since not been able to disagree with it.


"It is impossible to reconcile human history without allowing for the existence of a devil." -- Saul Mine


Just think about it. Human history really doesn't make a lot of sense.

[StackerKen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl0H1EUQ_38



"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist"

[StreetsOfGold]

I have been trying to find the difference between the Devil and Satan. Or if they are one and the same, but much like Usury or any esoteric subject, there seems to be a clear attempt at getting people to be confused about the subject.

Do any of you have any good reading recommendations on the subject?


They are the SAME being and he's VERY real alright. ANYONE telling you otherwise does NOT know what they are talking about.

Revelations 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Revelatons 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

If you have ANY doubt there's a REAL being call satan or the Devil and is also referred to Lucifer, BEFORE HIS FALL. Ignore this lies claiming that Lucifer and Satan are 2 different beings, THEY ARE THE SAME!!!!

Check out the 10 hour Rockumentary They sold their soul for Rock and Roll http://goodfightministries.com/store/resources_video_tstsfrar10.html

[Brent]

I honestly don't know.




I'll leave you with this thought. It was espoused by Saul Mine and I have since not been able to disagree with it.


"It is impossible to reconcile human history without allowing for the existence of a devil." -- Saul Mine


Just think about it. Human history really doesn't make a lot of sense.


Just because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean that the devil is real.

Words like "impossible" shouldn't be used when describing one human's inability to understand their world.

Sorry for you but to me human history makes perfect sense.

"Just think about it." That's what someone says when they want you to follow their viewpoint without actually "thinking" about "it".

Every time I see some Christ-insane post some of their nonsensical mythology on these boards I want to scream with frustration at the massive amount of blatant stupidity, bigotry, and superstition involved. What is even more mind blowing is that some of you Christ-insane actually know about the jewish conspiracy to destroy the White race. How you continue to worship a zombie jew nailed to some wood is a testament to just how well this form of jewish mind poison works. The jews who wrote the bible were either pure genius or got incredibly lucky.

Of course upon reading the above paragraph each "Christian" will then experience what is called cognitive dissonance as they find their world view challenged. Luckily for the jew the brainwashed will then decide with their immense powers of logic and observation (sarcasm) that I must be sent from God or the Devil to "test" their "faith". Because of course what I am saying couldn't actually be true, that would mean that their entire perspective on life (and probably their ancestors as well) is complete and utter bullshit. And that just isn't the type of thing that most (probably around 95%) people can handle.

If the mods wish to view this as a "personal" attack that is obviously their right but it was not intended as such. I view this as an attack on the religion itself not the silly fools entrapped by it.

[midnight rambler]

"But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven."

Uh-oh.

[gunDriller]

The new world order conspirators you mentioned believe in (and worship) lucifer.
What do they know that you don't know?


do they worship Lucifer as a concept or after having met him/ her/ them in the flesh ?

[Gaillo]

No, I do not believe in Satan or any other supernatural beings. However, what I believe is irrelevent, it's what those in control of this world believe that ends up affecting us all! From my studies, most of TPTB adhere to a religious belief system that has a Satanic being as one of its main deities, although NOT quite identical to the "Satan" or "devil" of Christianity. Due to this "mass belief" among TPTB, it doesn't really matter if this being truly exists or not... as the end-result will be the same - "hell" on Earth.

[Awoke]

The new world order conspirators you mentioned believe in (and worship) lucifer.
What do they know that you don't know?


do they worship Lucifer as a concept or after having met him/ her/ them in the flesh ?


It is a deep rabbit hole that stretches back to the days of jewish apostasy and their worship of Ba'al (Prounounced "Bail" or "Bale") during and before the days of babylon.
Ba'al is satan, is lucifer, is the devil. It is doubtful that many of the conspirators have ever "met" the devil "face to face", other than possibly a few of the highest ranking luciferians at the very head of the octopus. I don't envy them for it.

Whether you believe in what Brent calls "superstition" (Which is an jewish illuminist/freemasonic term, btw Brent) or not is up to you. I'm not going to try to convince anyone that God and satan are real. That is your descision to make.
Just know that the conspirators are satanic, and they believe in the existence of God and satan, and fight for satans goals.

Wherever they are going after death, I do not want to be with them.

[TheNocturnalEgyptian]

I'm more likely to believe in the manipulation and culmination of naturally negative energy more so than I am going to believe in a physical devil entity.


I will ask one question to anyone that says Hell exists, though. Where did hell go? Where did hell go.


For thousands of years hell was below the earth. That was a church fact, wasn't it?

Well where did it go? Where is hell now?

[TheNocturnalEgyptian]

I'm not Christian, but I thought Saul's comment was interesting. We were talking about history at the time, it fit into the discussion really well when he said it. I guess you had to be there.





I honestly don't know.




I'll leave you with this thought. It was espoused by Saul Mine and I have since not been able to disagree with it.


"It is impossible to reconcile human history without allowing for the existence of a devil." -- Saul Mine


Just think about it. Human history really doesn't make a lot of sense.


Just because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean that the devil is real.

Words like "impossible" shouldn't be used when describing one human's inability to understand their world.

Sorry for you but to me human history makes perfect sense.

"Just think about it." That's what someone says when they want you to follow their viewpoint without actually "thinking" about "it".

Every time I see some Christ-insane post some of their nonsensical mythology on these boards I want to scream with frustration at the massive amount of blatant stupidity, bigotry, and superstition involved. What is even more mind blowing is that some of you Christ-insane actually know about the jewish conspiracy to destroy the White race. How you continue to worship a zombie jew nailed to some wood is a testament to just how well this form of jewish mind poison works. The jews who wrote the bible were either pure genius or got incredibly lucky.

Of course upon reading the above paragraph each "Christian" will then experience what is called cognitive dissonance as they find their world view challenged. Luckily for the jew the brainwashed will then decide with their immense powers of logic and observation (sarcasm) that I must be sent from God or the Devil to "test" their "faith". Because of course what I am saying couldn't actually be true, that would mean that their entire perspective on life (and probably their ancestors as well) is complete and utter bullsh*t. And that just isn't the type of thing that most (probably around 95%) people can handle.

If the mods wish to view this as a "personal" attack that is obviously their right but it was not intended as such. I view this as an attack on the religion itself not the silly fools entrapped by it.

[learn2swim]

I think you have to look outside the physical realm. I'm thinking it's a spiritual force, that's benevolent to those who serve it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqvvOD4bdRs


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZssSaXzE9U

[G2Rad]

I don't beleive any evil supernatural god-like thing ruling over souls in hell

nowhere does it say he will rule in hell

[G2Rad]

a bit of sanity in this insane world

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2494291415376995856#

[Greenbear]

I used to think that all references to Satan in Rock 'n Roll were just metaphorical expressions of youthful rebellion but I don't believe that anymore.

Fallen Lucifer who is also known as Satan, the Devil, and the Dragon is a very real person who can appear as an angel of light to deceive the unwary. A person doesn't have to believe in his existence to be deceived and destroyed by him because he walks to and fro through the earth seeking all whom he may devour.

Eminem is one of hundreds or thousands of musicians who have admittedly literally sold their souls to the Devil for fame and fortune and all that goes with it.

Matthew 4:5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

Matthew 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Matthew 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

Matthew 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

I believe that Eminem wants out of the Illuminist club he has joined, and has publicly expressed that desire, while putting it out there for everyone to see that he knows that Satan really is the god of this world. Watch this video of Eminem's song "My Darling" and decide for yourself what he is clearly saying.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRF_H7dewWY


I've previously watched the entire video that Streets of Gold recommended, and it is irrefutable that hundreds of musicians at least believe they have sold their souls to Satan and apparently that they believe they are required to do homage to him in their lyrics.

There is a way out for them, and for all of us. Jesus Christ is the way out. His shed blood can break any curse or covenant that has been made with Satan.

If you're curious here's a link to a one hour clip of "They Sold Their Soul For Rock N Roll":

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2494291415376995856#


Dylan found out about Jesus and ended up making some of the best Christian music ever made. But Dylan made 2 critical mistakes:

1. He never renounced his deal with the devil, although he later admitted to it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqvvOD4bdRs

2. He began to play his old music again, which was part of the deal. Then his wealth and fame came back to him.

[7th trump]

I used to think that all references to Satan in Rock 'n Roll were just metaphorical expressions of youthful rebellion but I don't believe that anymore.

Fallen Lucifer who is also known as Satan, the Devil, and the Dragon is a very real person who can appear as an angel of light to deceive the unwary. A person doesn't have to believe in his existence to be deceived and destroyed by him because he walks to and fro through the earth seeking all whom he may devour.

Eminem is one of hundreds or thousands of musicians who have admittedly literally sold their souls to the Devil for fame and fortune and all that goes with it.

Matthew 4:5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

Matthew 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Matthew 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

Matthew 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

I believe that Eminem wants out of the Illuminist club he has joined, and has publicly expressed that desire, while putting it out there for everyone to see that he knows that Satan really is the god of this world. Watch this video of Eminem's song "My Darling" and decide for yourself what he is clearly saying.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRF_H7dewWY


I've previously watched the entire video that Streets of Gold recommended, and it is irrefutable that hundreds of musicians at least believe they have sold their souls to Satan and apparently that they believe they are required to do homage to him in their lyrics.

There is a way out for them, and for all of us. Jesus Christ is the way out. His shed blood can break any curse or covenant that has been made with Satan.

If you're curious here's a link to a one hour clip of "They Sold Their Soul For Rock N Roll":

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2494291415376995856#


Dylan found out about Jesus and ended up making some of the best Christian music ever made. But Dylan made 2 critical mistakes:

1. He never renounced his deal with the devil, although he later admitted to it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqvvOD4bdRs

2. He began to play his old music again, which was part of the deal. Then his wealth and fame came back to him.


Its funny you quote Mathew 4:9 greenbear when you tried to prove me wrong about satan coming to play act as Jesus Christ. I told you from the beginning that the fall of lucifer was his attempt at sitting in the mercy seat to be Christ and you likened me as an idiot.
Mathew 4:9 is pretty much confirming satan wants to be worshipped as the "instead of" Christ as the Greek language says it and translated as "antichrist" as Revelation's puts it in the English language.
And no satan, lucifer, the old dragon doesnt appear to no one as an angel of light. satan is chained up in Heaven until Micheal kicks him and his angels to earth more perfectly described at the 6th trumpet, the 6th seal, and the 6th vail..........666. satan can only spiritually rome the earth just as God can and does................satan cannot morph himself into anything physical and just appear.
satan has always treid to passed himself off as an angel of light. Its just one of many metaphors satan uses to be the Mercy Seat. satan tries to be all sorts of things Christ is and just doesnt quite cut it.
Genesis sets the stage between Christ and satan. Jesus Christ is the Tree of Life and satan is the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Both are referenced as trees, but one is a fake that cannot give life nor preserve life.

[BillBoard]

Jesus Christ is the Tree of Life and satan is the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Both are referenced as trees, but one is a fake that cannot give life nor preserve life.

So if Satan is knowledge of good and evil... what is ignorance?

Does living in Jesus Christ make you ignorant of evil...and what is good?

How can you know good without bad?

If you believe in the right of self-defense, how can you believe it is right for those to that harm you to go through life with impunity...

I can't put my finger on it, but I think there is much more to the Jesus story. Maybe the Devil is your unjust desire to commit harm, i.e., malice.

If the Tree of Life is good, how can those that make the hard decisions for survival of the species be evil? That is to say, if some must die so others may survive is that evil?

[Silver Shield]

If good people see good in others then it would be logical they see good on their God.

It is comforting to believe that there is a loving father watching and guiding them.

This gives good people justifications for their actions of continuing to do good knowing they are loved.


It has been said "hurt people, hurt people."

Abuse forms psychotic breaks.

This is how psychopathy has spread through our society with near industrial efficiency.

We are a culture devoid of real human contact, narcissism, lies, devoid of values, and arrogance.

So if people are like this, would it be comforting to believe for them that there is a loving Satan who is in control?

Wouldn't that give justification to continue the abuse they endured?


I have shown how psychopaths are all around us.

Many recognize them as the toxic relationships in our lives.

Google 12 ways to identify a psychopath.

The only way to deal with these hurt people is to cut them out of your personal life.


"There are two people in this world, those that want to be left alone, and others who will not leave you alone. "

So if you cut them out, where do they go?

They never are cured, mainly because they think everyone else is stupid.

The answer is they go to the three power centers where they are surrounded by others like them and they can control others without personal relationships.

NY if they are Financially minded.

DC if they are Politically Minded.

LA if they are Socially minded.

It does not surprise me that the top echelon has created a religion that justifies their actions, it happens all of the time to good people.

But just because you create a religion it does not give you supernatural power.

You only get real power from believing in something so much that you take massive action in your life.

Wheather it is religion, politics, entertainment, finances, or in my case the truth, whatever the mind can conceive and believe, it will acheive.

Don't fear the Luciferians because they have some voodoo power.

Fear them because they are hurt people, hell bent on controlling your life.

Their power does not come from Satan, it comes from fractional reserve banking and usury.

They use the banks to control our media, politics, and our military to control the world so they can never be hurt again.

Without that, they would be just a bunch of psychos running around the woods killing squirrels.



P.S. I just spent literally all day yesterday reading about Luciferians, Khabbalists, Knights of Malta, Masons, Jesiuts, and the like.

I read about symbology in DC and in our media.

I read about Satanic ritual abuse.

I have no doubt these things exist.

What I do doubt is that just because they have these clubs and have these sick acts that does not mean that they have any super powers.

They continue the abuse and they have created a system for hurt people to hurt people.

Our founding fathers gave us a government and a banking system that kept these people in check and rewarded and perpetuated good people.

I also don't like this whole field of knowledge because it is such a waste of time and it makes them more
Powerful than they really are.

They have no more power to curse you as you have to bless them and turn their lives around.

What they do have is power, which used to be ours.

When I worked on the Academy I stuck with the real world causes of power like banks, wars, culture, and politics.

If you want to change the world, change the way you think.

[millwright]

Of course Satan exists. I have met him. I danced with him.

Somebody in this thread talked about how Satan cannot manifest himself physically in this world. I agree.

The mistake people make in my opinion is trying to equate satan with some kind of beast with horns on its head.

You wanna know what satan is? Okay i will give you an example. CRACK COCAINE ! = Satan

That is one of the many ways that Satan manifests itself in this world. Don't believe me? Smoke some and find out. Ditto other destructive mind and body altering drugs. I lived with Satan for years.

On the flip side lets talk about God.

Same thing applies. A good example of God and how it manifests. My Queensland Healer! Thats right ,my dog.

I know that God exists , because of my dog. Does that sound crazy? Not to me. Why is the world full of dogs,and why are they our best friends? Why do they give us unconditional love. Why do they stand by us with no questions ask?

I am of the opinion that people complicate things to much. Keep it simple.

Another place that people get it wrong in my opinion is the Bible. Use the brain that God gave you.You do not need some fairytale book written by people with an agenda to explain Gods existence.

Nobody should rely on anybody else or anything else to complete their perception and understanding of what and who God is.My perception of God is mine,not yours or anyone elses for that matter.

Oh and one more thing. To think that God protects you or anyone else in this world is to deny reality.To say that God will provide for your needs in this world is a perfect example of you projecting your perception onto others.This world througout it history is full of examples.I know many so called Christians who say stupid things like "God provides for the birds needs and you dont think he will provide for yours?"

This is a perfect example of peaple projecting their perceptions of God onto others.Say this kind of thing to some African who was born into nothing but disease and squalor and war and famine.Your perception is not the same as theirs i promise you.

Yes Satan is all to real,but it isnt some beast with horns.

[Spectrism]

I honestly don't know.

I'll leave you with this thought. It was espoused by Saul Mine and I have since not been able to disagree with it.

"It is impossible to reconcile human history without allowing for the existence of a devil." -- Saul Mine

Just think about it. Human history really doesn't make a lot of sense.


Just because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean that the devil is real.
Words like "impossible" shouldn't be used when describing one human's inability to understand their world.
Sorry for you but to me human history makes perfect sense.

So many people walk around believing that people are basically "good'. The problem with that concept is all the corruption and wicked things we see in the world. Even the one person we hold up highest as "good" in our lives is riddled with flaws. Let's not even get into a discussion about how we figure things are good or bad- and for now leave that to natural judgment. But mankind is NOT good. The world is not a healthy place. People fight all their lives to survive and then they die. Now, if you want to believe that is all there is to life, that is your luxury right now. Everyone is able to believe whatever they want at least temporarily. Eventually, reality gets irrefutable and your only other choice is denial.





"Just think about it." That's what someone says when they want you to follow their viewpoint without actually "thinking" about "it".

No. "Just think about it" means just think about it. It does not mean that you have to shut off your brain. It means that you should challenge the deepest part of your reasoning capability and let truth prevail.




Every time I see some Christ-insane post some of their nonsensical mythology on these boards I want to scream with frustration at the massive amount of blatant stupidity, bigotry, and superstition involved. What is even more mind blowing is that some of you Christ-insane actually know about the jewish conspiracy to destroy the White race. How you continue to worship a zombie jew nailed to some wood is a testament to just how well this form of jewish mind poison works. The jews who wrote the bible were either pure genius or got incredibly lucky.

I have a little secret for you: not all Jews are bad. Here is another little secret: not all things written or spoken by Jews is a lie. Please consider who is sillier: me who believes what I have found to be true by experience or you believing that all things connected to Jews is poison.

Look at what we know of world history. Where and when have been the best places to live and where has liberty been most prevalent? Do your own work on this.... it should reveal some interesting views.

Since the printing press and release of the bible in native languages that people could ingest, the dark ages faded away. Those places that held to man's traditions, superstition, "aboriginal" religions, and various other ways that at times seemed right to the wandering tribes of man- all repressed liberty in favor of rule by might (and usually violence). Blaming the bible and christianity for the straying of man from the truth is like blaming an operator's manual when the new owner of an appliance disregards the print in favor of his own impetuousity while blowing up the miswired or improperly used device. Learn to discern the true cause of the effects.




Of course upon reading the above paragraph each "Christian" will then experience what is called cognitive dissonance as they find their world view challenged. Luckily for the jew the brainwashed will then decide with their immense powers of logic and observation (sarcasm) that I must be sent from God or the Devil to "test" their "faith". Because of course what I am saying couldn't actually be true, that would mean that their entire perspective on life (and probably their ancestors as well) is complete and utter bullsh*t. And that just isn't the type of thing that most (probably around 95%) people can handle.

I was a hater of Jews and most other races. Growing up, I saw nothing good come from those groups and knew only distrust and hate for them. They were valid feelings learned from others and experienced. The problem with them was that I had ALL of them locked (in my mind) in the evil box and left no room for the possibility that there were some good among those bad people. Here, my use of the word "good" is relative as none of us is any good.

Over time, I began to experience a hedging in of my beliefs. They were channelled so that I had to make a choice- accept truth or let hate rule my life. The moment of choice was not race or jew related. It was about simple truth and my own need of redemption. The dead dry words of the bible that I refuted, ridiculed and hated were given to me with power. In them I saw my life and they became alive before my eyes. I saw my name written in the bible in many places. I felt the Spirit of the Creator touch my soul. I heard his voice speaking softly to me with words of comfort and peace... to sooth the words of truth that showed me my sorry condition.

I know that there is One God who created the world and will close up the temporary free reign of His creation to put things back in order. I know that I was called out of this world and that He is trustworthy. I don't know if He calls everyone. For this reason, I do not want EVER to push anything onto anyone. The offers are laid out in the daylight for those who can hear & see. Those who cannot should be left alone.




If the mods wish to view this as a "personal" attack that is obviously their right but it was not intended as such. I view this as an attack on the religion itself not the silly fools entrapped by it.

No personal attack felt here. I am glad to be called a fool for my Messiah. Everyone is a fool for someone. Who's fool are you?

[Spectrism]

Jesus Christ is the Tree of Life and satan is the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Both are referenced as trees, but one is a fake that cannot give life nor preserve life.

So if Satan is knowledge of good and evil... what is ignorance?


First- I disagree with the original quote.... Jesus Christ is not the Tree of Life and Satan is not the tree of knowledge of good and evil referenced in Genesis. Let me turn the picture a little show you a different light.

Here are some of the root meanings that related to "knowledge" from Strong's reference dictionary-

A primitive root; to know (properly to ascertain by seeing); used in a great variety of senses, figuratively, literally, euphemistically and inferentially (including observation, care, recognition; and causatively instruction, designation, punishment, etc.): - acknowledge, acquaintance (-ted with), advise, answer, appoint, assuredly, be aware, [un-] awares, can [-not], certainly, for a certainty, comprehend, consider, X could they, cunning, declare, be diligent, (can, cause to) discern, discover, endued with, familiar friend, famous, feel, can have, be [ig-] norant, instruct, kinsfolk, kinsman, (cause to, let, make) know, (come to give, have, take) knowledge, have [knowledge], (be, make, make to be, make self) known, + be learned, + lie by man, mark, perceive, privy to, X prognosticator, regard, have respect, skilful, shew, can (man of) skill, be sure, of a surety, teach, (can) tell, understand, have [understanding], X will be, wist, wit, wot.

To partake of this "tree's fruit" means to be one of good and evil. The disobedience alone puts mankind at odds with God. The form of the fruit is not important. The effect of this partaking is the LOSS OF INNOCENCE. This is not a simple "loss of ignorance' but a loss of innocence. It is not a gaining of knowledge, but a gaining of an evil history by choosing and doing evil.



Does living in Jesus Christ make you ignorant of evil...and what is good?

No. We are living in a temprorary and contradictory condition. We are given new life in the Spirit and await a ressurrected new body that is pure and blameless. Today, those of us still living in the flesh are walking with constant internal wars. The evil flesh wants to rise up over the Spirit and the soul must choose daily to "crucify" (reject) the flesh in favor of the leadings of the Spirit. The Messiah was sent to provide a sacrificial lamb whose blood washes the effect of our sins away. That effect is enmity with God. Only a sinless soul can have peace with God. These fleshly bodies must be destroyed.



How can you know good without bad?

How can you know good food without eating poison?




If you believe in the right of self-defense, how can you believe it is right for those to that harm you to go through life with impunity...

God looked at man in man's lost condition and provided MANY helps. One of those is the 10 commandments. In these He tells us how to first behave in His presence and toward Him. He then goes on to tell us how to behave with each other. He provides recourse for those who violate these LAWS. Righteousness among men calls for the spilling of blood at times.




I can't put my finger on it, but I think there is much more to the Jesus story. Maybe the Devil is your unjust desire to commit harm, i.e., malice.

Yes- in a sense this is true. We are all imbued with corruption that was tricked into mankind by the devil... but we are all corrupted from birth. But the devil is a real person and don't think that he is not smart enough to figure some pretty clever ways to confuse mankind. He tricked our first parents who were much better than us.



If the Tree of Life is good, how can those that make the hard decisions for survival of the species be evil? That is to say, if some must die so others may survive is that evil?

We all must die. The tree of life was blocked from mankind so that we would not have eternal life in this rotting flesh condition. We have been encapsulated in time so that we cannot know everything. The same is true for all other created beings. There is only the Father who knows all and holds the end from the beginning. The world is a dead body. We have been instructed to be salt and light- slowing the decay of this rotting flesh. We are small in number- a remnant and the rotting masses are many. From this I see that judgment is coming very soon. Time is almost finished. The work of God's word is almost completed here.

[BillBoard]

If good people see good in others then it would be logical they see good on their God.

It is comforting to believe that there is a loving father watching and guiding them.

This gives good people justifications for their actions of continuing to do good knowing they are loved.


It has been said "hurt people, hurt people."

Abuse forms psychotic breaks.

This is how psychopathy has spread through our society with near industrial efficiency.

We are a culture devoid of real human contact, narcissism, lies, devoid of values, and arrogance.

So if people are like this, would it be comforting to believe for them that there is a loving Satan who is in control?

Wouldn't that give justification to continue the abuse they endured?


I have shown how psychopaths are all around us.

Many recognize them as the toxic relationships in our lives.

Google 12 ways to identify a psychopath.

The only way to deal with these hurt people is to cut them out of your personal life.


"There are two people in this world, those that want to be left alone, and others who will not leave you alone. "

So if you cut them out, where do they go?

They never are cured, mainly because they think everyone else is stupid.

The answer is they go to the three power centers where they are surrounded by others like them and they can control others without personal relationships.

NY if they are Financially minded.

DC if they are Politically Minded.

LA if they are Socially minded.

It does not surprise me that the top echelon has created a religion that justifies their actions, it happens all of the time to good people.

But just because you create a religion it does not give you supernatural power.

You only get real power from believing in something so much that you take massive action in your life.

Wheather it is religion, politics, entertainment, finances, or in my case the truth, whatever the mind can conceive and believe, it will acheive.

Don't fear the Luciferians because they have some voodoo power.

Fear them because they are hurt people, hell bent on controlling your life.

Their power does not come from Satan, it comes from fractional reserve banking and usury.

They use the banks to control our media, politics, and our military to control the world so they can never be hurt again.

Without that, they would be just a bunch of psychos running around the woods killing squirrels.



P.S. I just spent literally all day yesterday reading about Luciferians, Khabbalists, Knights of Malta, Masons, Jesiuts, and the like.

I read about symbology in DC and in our media.

I read about Satanic ritual abuse.

I have no doubt these things exist.

What I do doubt is that just because they have these clubs and have these sick acts that does not mean that they have any super powers.

They continue the abuse and they have created a system for hurt people to hurt people.

Our founding fathers gave us a government and a banking system that kept these people in check and rewarded and perpetuated good people.

I also don't like this whole field of knowledge because it is such a waste of time and it makes them more
Powerful than they really are.

They have no more power to curse you as you have to bless them and turn their lives around.

What they do have is power, which used to be ours.

When I worked on the Academy I stuck with the real world causes of power like banks, wars, culture, and politics.

If you want to change the world, change the way you think.



Silver Shield:

What a most profound post! Not to create envy or jealousy, but truly you should be recognized by what an insightful post you have just written.

I have only highlighted the tip of the iceberg. You really hit the nail on the head.

[BillBoard]

To partake of this "tree's fruit" means to be one of good and evil. The disobedience alone puts mankind at odds with God. The form of the fruit is not important. The effect of this partaking is the LOSS OF INNOCENCE. This is not a simple "loss of ignorance' but a loss of innocence. It is not a gaining of knowledge, but a gaining of an evil history by choosing and doing evil.


What is innocence?

Is the gaining of volition(free will) and its exercise loss of innocence?

I smell a setup, the entity we call God and attribute goodness to, would it be needed if we all were innocent and without fault?

There is much Truth in the Bible, the result of life experience written down and passed on to us as wisdom through those writings. But also I suspect that it has been edited to suit the agenda of those seeking power and control over others.

P.S. Someone had to eat poison, otherwise how would you know it was poison?

[Book]

The mistake people make in my opinion is trying to equate satan with some kind of beast with horns on its head.



http://www.hotflick.net/flicks/2000_Bedazzled/000BDZ_Elizabeth_Hurley_031.jpg

http://www.vb-h.net/dvd/bedazzled05.gif

Exactly. She can also wear red leather or a red bikini.

:D

[Spectrism]

To partake of this "tree's fruit" means to be one of good and evil. The disobedience alone puts mankind at odds with God. The form of the fruit is not important. The effect of this partaking is the LOSS OF INNOCENCE. This is not a simple "loss of ignorance' but a loss of innocence. It is not a gaining of knowledge, but a gaining of an evil history by choosing and doing evil.


What is innocence?

Is the gaining of volition(free will) and its exercise loss of innocence?

I smell a setup, the entity we call God and attribute goodness to, would it be needed if we all were innocent and without fault?

There is much Truth in the Bible, the result of life experience written down and passed on to us as wisdom through those writings. But also I suspect that it has been edited to suit the agenda of those seeking power and control over others.

P.S. Someone had to eat poison, otherwise how would you know it was poison?


Your words tell me you are not ready for the truth.

[BillBoard]

Your words tell me you are not ready for the truth.


That may very well be. But I am no longer willing to sit by and believe all the doctrine shoved down my throat.

Is your truth based on unquestionable faith? If it is, I don't want any part of it.

[Spectrism]

Your words tell me you are not ready for the truth.


That may very well be. But I am no longer willing to sit by and believe all the doctrine shoved down my throat.

Is your truth based on unquestionable faith? If it is, I don't want any part of it.


I read this: "There is much Truth in the Bible, the result of life experience written down and passed on to us as wisdom through those writings. But also I suspect that it has been edited to suit the agenda of those seeking power and control over others."

WHO told you that the bible was edited? Don't tell me nobody because I have read it here numerous times. You choose to believe men who are lost yet you have not read the bible which you stand in judgment against.

How simple a person are you that anyone can "shove something down your throat"? Please give me an example of when someone did this to you.

[7th trump]

If good people see good in others then it would be logical they see good on their God.

It is comforting to believe that there is a loving father watching and guiding them.

This gives good people justifications for their actions of continuing to do good knowing they are loved.


It has been said "hurt people, hurt people."

Abuse forms psychotic breaks.

This is how psychopathy has spread through our society with near industrial efficiency.

We are a culture devoid of real human contact, narcissism, lies, devoid of values, and arrogance.

So if people are like this, would it be comforting to believe for them that there is a loving Satan who is in control?

Wouldn't that give justification to continue the abuse they endured?


I have shown how psychopaths are all around us.

Many recognize them as the toxic relationships in our lives.

Google 12 ways to identify a psychopath.

The only way to deal with these hurt people is to cut them out of your personal life.


"There are two people in this world, those that want to be left alone, and others who will not leave you alone. "

So if you cut them out, where do they go?

They never are cured, mainly because they think everyone else is stupid.

The answer is they go to the three power centers where they are surrounded by others like them and they can control others without personal relationships.

NY if they are Financially minded.

DC if they are Politically Minded.

LA if they are Socially minded.

It does not surprise me that the top echelon has created a religion that justifies their actions, it happens all of the time to good people.

But just because you create a religion it does not give you supernatural power.

You only get real power from believing in something so much that you take massive action in your life.

Wheather it is religion, politics, entertainment, finances, or in my case the truth, whatever the mind can conceive and believe, it will acheive.

Don't fear the Luciferians because they have some voodoo power.

Fear them because they are hurt people, hell bent on controlling your life.

Their power does not come from Satan, it comes from fractional reserve banking and usury.

They use the banks to control our media, politics, and our military to control the world so they can never be hurt again.

Without that, they would be just a bunch of psychos running around the woods killing squirrels.



P.S. I just spent literally all day yesterday reading about Luciferians, Khabbalists, Knights of Malta, Masons, Jesiuts, and the like.

I read about symbology in DC and in our media.

I read about Satanic ritual abuse.

I have no doubt these things exist.

What I do doubt is that just because they have these clubs and have these sick acts that does not mean that they have any super powers.

They continue the abuse and they have created a system for hurt people to hurt people.

Our founding fathers gave us a government and a banking system that kept these people in check and rewarded and perpetuated good people.

I also don't like this whole field of knowledge because it is such a waste of time and it makes them more
Powerful than they really are.

They have no more power to curse you as you have to bless them and turn their lives around.

What they do have is power, which used to be ours.

When I worked on the Academy I stuck with the real world causes of power like banks, wars, culture, and politics.

If you want to change the world, change the way you think.


You can sum up these types of people............................................ .pure laziness!
Communism is laziness that will defend and justify itself through lies and murder that manifests into greed.

[Book]

This thread belongs in Religion and Philosophy.

:D

[BillBoard]

I read this: "There is much Truth in the Bible, the result of life experience written down and passed on to us as wisdom through those writings. But also I suspect that it has been edited to suit the agenda of those seeking power and control over others."

WHO told you that the bible was edited? Don't tell me nobody because I have read it here numerous times. You choose to believe men who are lost yet you have not read the bible which you stand in judgment against.



I have worked in the book printing industry, one of my grandfather's businesses and now run by one of my uncles is in publishing.






How simple a person are you that anyone can "shove something down your throat"? Please give me an example of when someone did this to you.





I was raised in a catholic family, with full primary and secondary and recipient of the finest indoctrinations techniques as applied by the Jesuits.


Re: simple person.

Took me a few years to crack the secret of the bankers, yet I endured and figured it out. So yes, I am simple, yet I try now not to be gullible.

So let me ask you, have you questioned why live an eternal life? That's what salvation offers right?

Do you really want eternal life? To me eternal life seems very very scary, much like what hell would be...

[Spectrism]

I read this: "There is much Truth in the Bible, the result of life experience written down and passed on to us as wisdom through those writings. But also I suspect that it has been edited to suit the agenda of those seeking power and control over others."

WHO told you that the bible was edited? Don't tell me nobody because I have read it here numerous times. You choose to believe men who are lost yet you have not read the bible which you stand in judgment against.



I have worked in the book printing industry, one of my grandfather's businesses and now run by one of my uncles is in publishing.

There is no connecting thought with this. Do you mean to imply that you saw how books are edited and so you presume the words of the bible are all edited to meet the approval of the editor? If so, yes- that is the risk. This is why we are not left alone. The Messiah left us His Spirit to know truth. This is not to know ALL truth, but to know certain things when others cannot.








How simple a person are you that anyone can "shove something down your throat"? Please give me an example of when someone did this to you.





I was raised in a catholic family, with full primary and secondary and recipient of the finest indoctrinations techniques as applied by the Jesuits.


Re: simple person.

Took me a few years to crack the secret of the bankers, yet I endured and figured it out. So yes, I am simple, yet I try now not to be gullible.

I am familiar with Roman church indoctrination. There are true believers within the group but the teachings are loaded with extra-Spiritual (outside of God's Spirit) doctrines. Children get fed things that they are unable to question. Such are not responsible for their ignorance as they are innocent of the knowldege of truth. When we mature we are able to choose right from wrong. Unless we sear our consciences as if with a hot iron, we can hear the convictions of God's Spirit in our souls and will become accountable for choices. A simple (unable to reason) person or a child is the exception and will not be held accountable for what they are unable to choose.

It is not enough to be skeptical and thus "not gullible". You must also be directed toward truth and familiar with truth.





So let me ask you, have you questioned why live an eternal life? That's what salvation offers right?

I am unable to comprehend in my human mind "eternal". Infinity is a little further than I can quite imagine. My limitation does not make the reality any different. Since I did not create myself, I have a hard time trying to demand answers about my disposition. The questions do arise in any thinking man's mind. We are given enough answers to suffice. Salvation does not offer eternal life. We are all going to exist forever. The question is "where?"

Salvation is the redemption from the enemy kingdom and brought home to life with the Creator who alone is the source of all: comfort, peace, love, truth, kindness, patience, self-control, generosity, light. The fallen ones who seek to get in between us and God will imitate parts of God as bait to draw us away. Salvation is the peace with God as we are washed clean by the sacrifice of the One who walked as a man without sin and was murdered in our place. Salvation is the escape from the judgment of God.
Do you really want eternal life? To me eternal life seems very very scary, much like what hell would be...

[7th trump]

Jesus Christ is the Tree of Life and satan is the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Both are referenced as trees, but one is a fake that cannot give life nor preserve life.

So if Satan is knowledge of good and evil... what is ignorance?


First- I disagree with the original quote.... Jesus Christ is not the Tree of Life and Satan is not the tree of knowledge of good and evil referenced in Genesis. Let me turn the picture a little show you a different light.

Here are some of the root meanings that related to "knowledge" from Strong's reference dictionary-

A primitive root; to know (properly to ascertain by seeing); used in a great variety of senses, figuratively, literally, euphemistically and inferentially (including observation, care, recognition; and causatively instruction, designation, punishment, etc.): - acknowledge, acquaintance (-ted with), advise, answer, appoint, assuredly, be aware, [un-] awares, can [-not], certainly, for a certainty, comprehend, consider, X could they, cunning, declare, be diligent, (can, cause to) discern, discover, endued with, familiar friend, famous, feel, can have, be [ig-] norant, instruct, kinsfolk, kinsman, (cause to, let, make) know, (come to give, have, take) knowledge, have [knowledge], (be, make, make to be, make self) known, + be learned, + lie by man, mark, perceive, privy to, X prognosticator, regard, have respect, skilful, shew, can (man of) skill, be sure, of a surety, teach, (can) tell, understand, have [understanding], X will be, wist, wit, wot.

To partake of this "tree's fruit" means to be one of good and evil. The disobedience alone puts mankind at odds with God. The form of the fruit is not important. The effect of this partaking is the LOSS OF INNOCENCE. This is not a simple "loss of ignorance' but a loss of innocence. It is not a gaining of knowledge, but a gaining of an evil history by choosing and doing evil.



Does living in Jesus Christ make you ignorant of evil...and what is good?

No. We are living in a temprorary and contradictory condition. We are given new life in the Spirit and await a ressurrected new body that is pure and blameless. Today, those of us still living in the flesh are walking with constant internal wars. The evil flesh wants to rise up over the Spirit and the soul must choose daily to "crucify" (reject) the flesh in favor of the leadings of the Spirit. The Messiah was sent to provide a sacrificial lamb whose blood washes the effect of our sins away. That effect is enmity with God. Only a sinless soul can have peace with God. These fleshly bodies must be destroyed.



How can you know good without bad?

How can you know good food without eating poison?




If you believe in the right of self-defense, how can you believe it is right for those to that harm you to go through life with impunity...

God looked at man in man's lost condition and provided MANY helps. One of those is the 10 commandments. In these He tells us how to first behave in His presence and toward Him. He then goes on to tell us how to behave with each other. He provides recourse for those who violate these LAWS. Righteousness among men calls for the spilling of blood at times.




I can't put my finger on it, but I think there is much more to the Jesus story. Maybe the Devil is your unjust desire to commit harm, i.e., malice.

Yes- in a sense this is true. We are all imbued with corruption that was tricked into mankind by the devil... but we are all corrupted from birth. But the devil is a real person and don't think that he is not smart enough to figure some pretty clever ways to confuse mankind. He tricked our first parents who were much better than us.



If the Tree of Life is good, how can those that make the hard decisions for survival of the species be evil? That is to say, if some must die so others may survive is that evil?

We all must die. The tree of life was blocked from mankind so that we would not have eternal life in this rotting flesh condition. We have been encapsulated in time so that we cannot know everything. The same is true for all other created beings. There is only the Father who knows all and holds the end from the beginning. The world is a dead body. We have been instructed to be salt and light- slowing the decay of this rotting flesh. We are small in number- a remnant and the rotting masses are many. From this I see that judgment is coming very soon. Time is almost finished. The work of God's word is almost completed here.

Spectrum,
Everyone born into the flesh are born innocent. A baby is in no shape or form to understands right from wrong. The infant will grow into understanding and eventually be found and held accountable....................its called the "age of accountability" and some never reach that point in their lives and some reach it at ages very young. When that time comes, at what ever age it may be, from that point will decide if they are written in the book of Life. The robes you wear in Heaven are your works you've done here in the flesh.
I have to say though you are someone I always have in the past read all your posts and made it a point to read your posts but I'm beginning toi think twice now. You show signs that you are an evolutionist or havent quite understood the three earth ages. Without understanding 2nd Peter Chapter 3 you will never quite understand the nature of being in the flesh body and why nor the Bible itself.
The tree of Life is Jesus Christ and the tree of knowledge of good and evil is satan, lucifer or the old dragon or any number of names the son of perdition may be called or calls himself.
lucifer revolted in the first earth age (lucifer wanted to be the Mercy Seat........Christ) and our Father destroyed the first earth age (2nd Peter, chpt 3)to bring in the present second earth age so each and everyone of His children (each and everyone of us, black, white, yellow and evil jew......) could make a decision of who we are going to follow with out any evidence other than spiritual influence from both God and satan.
It is written that satan would bruise the heal of Christ ( the nailing to the cross) and Christ will crush the head of satan (death and a spiritual death in the lake of fire)...........uncreated and all memory blotted from those who over came.
God really doesnt want to have to destroy any of His children, including satan himself. satan was a very high protector of Jesus Christ (the Mercy Seat) and earned this high post until he revolted.
So unless you fully understand 2nd Peter chapter 3 you will never understand why we are in the flesh bodies and sound like a lost evolutionist teetering on faith.

[7th trump]

This thread belongs in Religion and Philosophy.

:D

Well then go to there book. nobody is forcing you to read this thread.

[Book]

This thread belongs in Religion and Philosophy.

:D


Well then go to there book. nobody is forcing you to read this thread.



Put down your sword (http://gold-silver.us/forum/religion-and-philosophy/%27so-be-it-it-was-the-work-of-god-%27-he-said/msg145261/?topicseen#msg145261) 7th...lol.

:D

[7th trump]

This thread belongs in Religion and Philosophy.

:D


Well then go to there book. nobody is forcing you to read this thread.



Put down your sword (http://gold-silver.us/forum/religion-and-philosophy/%27so-be-it-it-was-the-work-of-god-%27-he-said/msg145261/?topicseen#msg145261) 7th...lol.

:D

Thats is one stupid posts book.

[gunDriller]

it depends on the definition of "exists".

it seems like a lot of people are going with the Devil/ Satan is a concept - something neocons worship, etc.

so, along that line, the Devil exists the same way Harry Potter exists - in the imaginations of some people.


but normally - when a person exists, you can touch them, talk to them, etc. ... unless they're famous and you just read about them in People magazine.

overall, i would say "the Devil" is either a distraction, or an adjective - a word that is useful in trying to describe evil people.

[Spectrism]

Spectrum,
Everyone born into the flesh are born innocent. A baby is in no shape or form to understands right from wrong. The infant will grow into understanding and eventually be found and held accountable....................its called the "age of accountability" and some never reach that point in their lives and some reach it at ages very young. When that time comes, at what ever age it may be, from that point will decide if they are written in the book of Life.

While I agree in part, the bible does not say this. You left a dangling verb with no subject. Who "will decide"? It is the Lamb's book of life and and He is the One doing the writing. The Lamb that was slain must KNOW you. This is how long He must know you:

Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The bible has a beautiful harmony. Penned by many hands, it is One Spirit that speaks.


When we sin, our names are removed from the book of life.

Exo 32:31 And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold.
Exo 32:32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
Exo 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
Exo 32:34 Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them.
Exo 32:35 And the LORD plagued the people, because they made the calf, which Aaron made.

We see in ancient Israel the physical display of what happens spiritually. The consequence of sin is death. In a spiritual sense, that death is separation from God. The very strange customes of the Israelites were not invented by them. With the exception of later human additions, they came from God.
they were not random silly exercises, but foreshadows (or fore-lighting) of the spiritual paths to come and messages sealed up until the right times.

So, sin blots your name out of the book of life. The Messiah's blood blots out sin.




The robes you wear in Heaven are your works you've done here in the flesh.

My works here are like filthy rags. I will take the new clothes provided there, if you don't mind.

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.





I have to say though you are someone I always have in the past read all your posts and made it a point to read your posts but I'm beginning toi think twice now.

I make many mistakes. Always question everything I say. Always let truth stand above what I say. If my words are true, they will stand equal with your highest.




You show signs that you are an evolutionist or havent quite understood the three earth ages.

LOL- huh?




Without understanding 2nd Peter Chapter 3 you will never quite understand the nature of being in the flesh body and why nor the Bible itself.
The tree of Life is Jesus Christ

If this is so, please explain this:
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Your comment does not square with scripture. The Messiah is what YHWH is driving men toward, not away from. The context of Genesis makes this eternal life of the flesh, not the spirit. It is a physical tree. Is it a foreshadow of the Messiah? Yes! But it is not the Messiah in this sense.




and the tree of knowledge of good and evil is satan, lucifer or the old dragon or any number of names the son of perdition may be called or calls himself.

No. Same issue. The serpent- the devil- told Eve to eat the fruit of the tree. It is not the devil directly, although the tree was used of the devil as a tool of temptation. We see in both of these trees that mankind was given the choice to obey God or disobey. These trees display the nature of God's created beings in mankind. He did not make mindless objects or robots.




lucifer revolted in the first earth age (lucifer wanted to be the Mercy Seat........Christ) and our Father destroyed the first earth age (2nd Peter, chpt 3)to bring in the present second earth age so each and everyone of His children (each and everyone of us, black, white, yellow and evil jew......) could make a decision of who we are going to follow with out any evidence other than spiritual influence from both God and satan.
It is written that satan would bruise the heal of Christ ( the nailing to the cross) and Christ will crush the head of satan (death and a spiritual death in the lake of fire)...........uncreated and all memory blotted from those who over came.
God really doesnt want to have to destroy any of His children, including satan himself. satan was a very high protector of Jesus Christ (the Mercy Seat) and earned this high post until he revolted.
So unless you fully understand 2nd Peter chapter 3 you will never understand why we are in the flesh bodies and sound like a lost evolutionist teetering on faith.

This last paragraph is all bunk.

[7th trump]

Spectrum,
Its your good works, and bad works that Christ is writting in the book of Life. Christ will measure the good and the bad works to see if you are written or not in the book of Life.
Its ultimately up to you to decide who you are going to follow to either be written in the book of Life or not. It goes right along with us being here in this second earth age in the flesh.
As far as the "foundations of the earth".....................thats the first earth age and you have not figured that out yet. We were all in spiritual bodies then and will return to when this is all said and over with. Earth is changed back into its stupendous state it was but this time having God establishing Heaven on earth.
Christ hands over the keys of earth back to God. God doesnt step foot on this earth until after the great White thrown judgement (establishing His throne in Jerusalem) at 1st Corenthians 15:24

[lapis]

"Do you believe that the Devil exists? How about Satan?"

I used to, but I'm in the process of changing my beliefs.

I was raised a Christian, and still believe in Jesus, but now I find that the teachings of Ernest Holmes and the Science of Mind more in alignment with what I want to believe: that there is only one Force, one Presence, one Supreme Being and that is God.

I believe God is omnipotent; therefore there can't be another equally powerful force for evil.

However, obviously there are others who believe in evil or the Devil, and can manifest all sorts of things that make it seem like they are real due to their beliefs.

We are powerful creators ourselves (since we are divine beings having a physical experience), so it's really important to examine our beliefs and be careful what sort of thoughts we think about. Because of our power, the more we think something, the more it attracts that and things that are like it.

When I was still a Christian, I dreamed about Satan frequently. He manifested as a good-looking red man dressed in a business suit carrying a briefcase! Haha.


Do any of you have any good reading recommendations on the subject?

Anything by Ernest Holmes, but his Science of Mind is a good place to start (there's usually a copy in the library).

I have a biography about him and the creation of the Religious Science movement. RS was popular in the 30s, during the Depression.

What really drew me to Ernest Holmes was how during this bad economic time, a Religious Science minister who wanted to start his own church had to prove his beliefs in prosperity and an abundant God by manifesting enough money on his own to build a church, without any help from the parent organization.

[7th trump]

But but ........what are you going to think, when at the 7th trump, you've been fooled into worshipping satan instead of the real messiah?
You can choose your path, but you better make it a "due dilligent" path at that instead of one of "what I want to beleive" Lapis.
Like the game of baseball, you have to go to first, then second, then third and finally home to score. With God you better not take a short cut thinking you can go from hitting the ball to third to home to score...............................theres only one way and thats through Christ to acheive salvation.
The master of deceit is the son of perdition and hes fast approaching and hes coming as a fake Christ to rapture you away.
You've been warned!

[Greenbear]

Its funny you quote Mathew 4:9 greenbear when you tried to prove me wrong about satan coming to play act as Jesus Christ. I told you from the beginning
that the fall of lucifer was his attempt at sitting in the mercy seat to be Christ and you likened me as an idiot. Mathew 4:9 is pretty much confirming satan wants to be worshipped as the "instead of" Christ as the Greek language says it and translated as "antichrist" as Revelation's puts it in the English language.

You are so confused and ignorant of the Bible, yet so self-deceived about this fact, that it is not possible to discuss Bible topics with you. But I will try this once.

The Bible says the Man of Sin, who is also called that Wicked, the Son of Perdition, the Beast, and the Antichrist, will set himself up as God in the soon to be rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem. The Antichrist ("instead of", "substitute", i.e. false Christ) will be a man indwelt with the spirit and all the power of Satan, he is not Satan himself.


2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 (KJB)

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, (the antichrist is not Satan. Satan gives his power to him. Satan does not give his power to himself!)

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


I said that Satan is a real person, I did not say he is a human being. Angelic beings are "persons", Job refers to God as a "person".


Job 13:7-8 Will ye speak wickedly for God? and talk deceitfully for him? Will ye accept his person? will ye contend for God?


And no satan, lucifer, the old dragon doesnt appear to no one as an angel of light.

Oh, really? Let's see what the Holy Spirit says through Paul:


2 Corinthians 11:13-15

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.



satan is chained up in Heaven until Micheal kicks him and his angels to earth more perfectly described at the 6th trumpet, the 6th seal, and the 6th vail..........666.

Again, let us find out what the Bible says about this:


Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up

and down in it.

Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one

that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Satan had access to Heaven and earth in Job's time and he has access to Heaven and Earth in our time. He accuses the brethren day and night before the

throne of God:


Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ:

for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

And he still walks the earth destroying men's lives:


1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:


So, according to the Bible Satan is not "chained up in Heaven until Michael {the Archangel (Da10:13,21; Jude1:9, Re12:7)} kicks him out".


Revelation 12:7-9

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and

his angels were cast out with him.

Satan is not bound until the start of the literal, physical 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ on the earth, at which time he is bound and cast into the bottomless pit which is in

the center of the Earth, it is not in Heaven.


Revelation 20:1-3

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years

should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

If you have a verse from one of the 66 books of the King James Bible (not from some occult source) that says that Satan is currently chained up in Heaven

please produce it. If you cannot produce it, as you fail to produce support for any of your claims, then will you admit that you are speaking of things

which you do not understand (2Pe3:16), and that you are merely mouthing the profane and old wives' fables (1 Tim 4:7) from your Christian Identity cult

leader? It's one thing to reject the Bible as a fairy tale, but it is another to mangle it beyond all recognition.


satan can only spiritually rome the earth just as God can and does................satan cannot morph himself into anything physical and just appear.

Angels are spirits and as such they have spiritual, not physical bodies.


Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Nevertheless, according to the Bible, angels are able to manifest themselves as men in physical bodies.

Satan is a Cherub (Eze28:14), and an angel (2Co11:14). Whether Satan personally "morphs" into physical form the Bible doesn't specifically address, but

it does record instances where the preincarnate Son of God, and holy angels, have appeared as men. How else could some “entertain angels unaware”

(Hebrews 13:2)? Read Genesis chapter 18 where the preincarnate Son of God, along with two heavenly angels, appeared as men to Abraham and Sarah. Read

Genesis chapter 19 where the same two angels appear as men to Lot. More references of angels appearing in physical form: Mark 16:5; Daniel 10:5-6;

Matthew 28:3; Luke 24:4.

Genesis chapter 6:2 records the "sons of God" taking wives of the daughters of men, they took whatever women they wanted and they bore children to them,

who were called giants and Nephilim (Fallen ones). An angel has to be in physical form as a man to mate with human women.



satan has always treid to passed himself off as an angel of light

He is able to appear as an angel of light because he is not chained up in Heaven, no?



Its just one of many metaphors satan uses to be the Mercy Seat. satan tries to be all sorts of things Christ is and just doesnt quite cut it.

Christ is not literally the mercy seat. Christ sprinkled his own blood on the mercyseat in the Most Holy place in the Heavenly Tabernacle. Read Hebrews chapter 9.



Jesus Christ is the Tree of Life and satan is the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Both are referenced as trees, but one is a fake that cannot give life nor preserve life.
Jesus Christ and Satan are not trees, and they are never referenced as trees. Scripture please showing that they are trees?

[StackerKen]

Hi 7th

I don't want it to seem like i am ganging up on you. So please don't take it that way...

And Greenbear asked some questions 1st. So please feel free to answer her's 1st.

But I have a question about something you wrote..



satan was a very high protector of Jesus Christ (the Mercy Seat) and earned this high post until he revolted.

A protector of Jesus Christ?

From what?...Or Whom?

I really want to know where I can find this in my bible...can you show me?

[7th trump]

Its funny you quote Mathew 4:9 greenbear when you tried to prove me wrong about satan coming to play act as Jesus Christ. I told you from the beginning
that the fall of lucifer was his attempt at sitting in the mercy seat to be Christ and you likened me as an idiot. Mathew 4:9 is pretty much confirming satan wants to be worshipped as the "instead of" Christ as the Greek language says it and translated as "antichrist" as Revelation's puts it in the English language.

You are so confused and ignorant of the Bible, yet so self-deceived about this fact, that it is not possible to discuss Bible topics with you. But I will try this once.

The Bible says the Man of Sin, who is also called that Wicked, the Son of Perdition, the Beast, and the Antichrist, will set himself up as God in the soon to be rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem. The Antichrist ("instead of", "substitute", i.e. false Christ) will be a man indwelt with the spirit and all the power of Satan, he is not Satan himself.

Ohh................... greenbear you show your ignorance with such pride, dignity and glory dont you. What an attempt of a grand reentrance to GSUS.
Theres a Greek to English translation barrier here greenbear. Understand the greek language structure and writing before you go off claiming you are a scholar and know it all.
Please go reread:
"Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders......"
This does not say anything about a man coming after satan. This is still talking about satan.................theres a falling away first........this falling away is satans works greenbear so keep that in mind when you read this.
"Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders......" The "workings of satan" is not satan or anybody greenbear.
Theres only one devil, lucifer, the old dragon, serpent, son of perdition. Nowhere do you ever read of sons of perdition or satans or lucifers or the old dragons. Its singular greenbear......................singular.....get it?

Ohh yea you are so stead fast in judgement and yet you beleive in a 100 year rapture theory that holds no water in the word of God. None what so ever.
Here you go greenbear.................heres what God says about your rapture fly away theory.
Ezekiel Chpt13:

And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you? 19And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?

20Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

There how God feels about your beloved fly away doctrine greenbear. You continue on the lie that flying away in the clouds to meet Christ to save their soles.



2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 (KJB)

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, (the antichrist is not Satan. Satan gives his power to him. Satan does not give his power to himself!)

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


I said that Satan is a real person, I did not say he is a human being. Angelic beings are "persons", Job refers to God as a "person".


Job 13:7-8 Will ye speak wickedly for God? and talk deceitfully for him? Will ye accept his person? will ye contend for God?


And no satan, lucifer, the old dragon doesnt appear to no one as an angel of light.

Oh, really? Let's see what the Holy Spirit says through Paul:


2 Corinthians 11:13-15

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.



satan is chained up in Heaven until Micheal kicks him and his angels to earth more perfectly described at the 6th trumpet, the 6th seal, and the 6th vail..........666.

Again, let us find out what the Bible says about this:
satan has never walked on this earth greenbear, ever. Michael has had him in chains since his revolt. satan has never been born of woman to walk on this earth in the flesh. Gods children are the only ones to walk this earth in the flesh beside Christ himself to be an example to over come and fullfull prophecy. You can mistranslate the Bible all you want greenbear. Let your ego do the walking I guess........


Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up

and down in it.

Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one

that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Satan had access to Heaven and earth in Job's time and he has access to Heaven and Earth in our time. He accuses the brethren day and night before the

throne of God:
Job had never seen satan in person to convey what you are saying....................its not written that way greenbear. Go reread the story of Job if you dont beleive me........................you have a long way to go to think you know something.


Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ:

for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

And he still walks the earth destroying men's lives:
The spirit of satan walks the earth just like the spirit of God walks the earth. You are so elementary greenbear its beyond why I even take the time to argue with you.
You remeind me of a story that my dad told me when he was in the 4th grade shooting paper spit balls.
The teacher would think and beleive the person the paper spit ball landed on or next to was guilty of spiting it in the first place.
you have to think and use the brain matter between your ears at times greenbear...............and definately understand the greek language structure.


1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:


So, according to the Bible Satan is not "chained up in Heaven until Michael {the Archangel (Da10:13,21; Jude1:9, Re12:7)} kicks him out".

Wow.....you even have the balls out of egotistics to call God a liar. You know where it written that Micheal has satan in chains but to prove a point you choose to lie about it and call God a liar as well..........................ballsy, real ballsy and not to mention stupid.

Revelation 12:7-9

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and

his angels were cast out with him.

Satan is not bound until the start of the literal, physical 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ on the earth, at which time he is bound and cast into the bottomless pit which is in

the center of the Earth, it is not in Heaven.
Yes satan is chained by Micheal in Heaven and then kicked to earth (unchained) to have fun for 5 months. At the moment the 7th trumpet passes satans 10,000 angels are destroyed instantly and satan is chained and put into the pit which I never said was in Heaven. I guess you are so full of yourself you assumed I'd fall for that huh?
You really make an ass of yourself dont you!
And by the way the lake of fire, or pit if that what you are refering to, doesnt yet exist.
Center of the earth?
You should put all sharp objects away from you...............you might hurt yourself.


Revelation 20:1-3

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years

should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

If you have a verse from one of the 66 books of the King James Bible (not from some occult source) that says that Satan is currently chained up in Heaven

please produce it. If you cannot produce it, as you fail to produce support for any of your claims, then will you admit that you are speaking of things

which you do not understand (2Pe3:16), and that you are merely mouthing the profane and old wives' fables (1 Tim 4:7) from your Christian Identity cult

leader? It's one thing to reject the Bible as a fairy tale, but it is another to mangle it beyond all recognition.
Then you shouldnt dwell in fairy tales green................your doing a fine example of what you accuse.


satan can only spiritually rome the earth just as God can and does................satan cannot morph himself into anything physical and just appear.

Angels are spirits and as such they have spiritual, not physical bodies.


Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Nevertheless, according to the Bible, angels are able to manifest themselves as men in physical bodies.

Satan is a Cherub (Eze28:14), and an angel (2Co11:14). Whether Satan personally "morphs" into physical form the Bible doesn't specifically address, but

it does record instances where the preincarnate Son of God, and holy angels, have appeared as men. How else could some “entertain angels unaware”

(Hebrews 13:2)? Read Genesis chapter 18 where the preincarnate Son of God, along with two heavenly angels, appeared as men to Abraham and Sarah. Read

Genesis chapter 19 where the same two angels appear as men to Lot. More references of angels appearing in physical form: Mark 16:5; Daniel 10:5-6;

Matthew 28:3; Luke 24:4.

Genesis chapter 6:2 records the "sons of God" taking wives of the daughters of men, they took whatever women they wanted and they bore children to them,

who were called giants and Nephilim (Fallen ones). An angel has to be in physical form as a man to mate with human women.



satan has always treid to passed himself off as an angel of light

He is able to appear as an angel of light because he is not chained up in Heaven, no?



Its just one of many metaphors satan uses to be the Mercy Seat. satan tries to be all sorts of things Christ is and just doesnt quite cut it.

Christ is not literally the mercy seat. Christ sprinkled his own blood on the mercyseat in the Most Holy place in the Heavenly Tabernacle. Read Hebrews chapter 9.



Jesus Christ is the Tree of Life and satan is the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Both are referenced as trees, but one is a fake that cannot give life nor preserve life.
Jesus Christ and Satan are not trees, and they are never referenced as trees. Scripture please showing that they are trees?
Its a parable green, a parable! Dont you know what what a parable is?
I'm really starting to think you are a mental case green.............seriously


Your spirit, when you step out of the flesh, looks the same as the flesh bodies except you are in your 30's. Maybe you dont like the way you look.................Maybe that explains your attitude? But then again you earn it just as satan earned his "full package" of being beautiful.
Angels dont morph into flesh and bone green. You have to be born of the bag of waters green to be of flesh and bone.

[StackerKen]

Ok my turn 7th




satan was a very high protector of Jesus Christ (the Mercy Seat) and earned this high post until he revolted.

A protector of Jesus Christ?

From what?...Or Whom?

I really want to know where I can find this in my bible...can you show me?

[7th trump]

Ok my turn 7th




satan was a very high protector of Jesus Christ (the Mercy Seat) and earned this high post until he revolted.

A protector of Jesus Christ?

From what?...Or Whom?

I really want to know where I can find this in my bible...can you show me?


Ken let me search for this.

[lapis]

But but ........what are you going to think, when at the 7th trump, you've been fooled into worshipping satan instead of the real messiah?

I'm not worshiping anything, much less Satan. I used to have a real fear of him/it, and still have a trace of that, and it didn't help me one bit. It made me fearful of many things, including being literally possessed.


You can choose your path, but you better make it a "due dilligent" path at that instead of one of "what I want to beleive" Lapis.

Since we "are gods; [we] are all children of the Most High, (Psalms 82:6)" and made in God's image (Genesis 1:27), don't we possess everything we need mentally, intellectually in order to make the right decisions, without having to fear God or his judgment?

What's the sense of only doing right out of fear of the consequences in the hereafter? I'd rather do right because I like to, because then I'm aligned with the divine.


Like the game of baseball, you have to go to first, then second, then third and finally home to score. With God you better not take a short cut thinking you can go from hitting the ball to third to home to score...............................theres only one way and thats through Christ to acheive salvation.

I can't believe that Christ wouldn't let so-called "savages" (isolated primitive peoples) be saved and go to heaven because they have never heard of Him or the bible, if they are virtuous.


The master of deceit is the son of perdition and hes fast approaching and hes coming as a fake Christ to rapture you away.
You've been warned!


I don't know who or what is coming, but I hope I can look within and intuit what is real. I'm done with being fearful about hell, damnation and Satan, though.

[BillBoard]

Much to think about in this thread.

[Greenbear]

Please go reread:
"Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders......"
This does not say anything about a man coming after satan.

Are you sure that "after" here means that Satan's coming is sequentially in time after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders? This doesn't make any sense. The word "after" carries meanings other than in time. Another use of the word "after" is to seek out, follow a direction or influence.

Do you consider these verses to mean that something comes sequentially in time after something else? Decide for yourself if the word "after" has more than one sense.


Deuteronomy 6:14 Ye shall not go after other gods...

Is God commanding Israel not to follow sequentially in time after other gods or is he telling them not to seek out and follow the direction and influences of other gods?

Here's another example of a different meaning for the word "after":


Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Does this mean that we are supposed to actually walk behind our flesh? Or does it mean we are not to allow our flesh to rule over us?


Compare these verses side by side. They are both talking about the same thing:


2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Satan always counterfeits what God has done, because he wills to be like him (Isa 14:14). God the Father sent the Son Of God to become a man, so that he could be our kinsman redeemer. Jesus Christ is wholly God, and wholly man. God had to become a man to save mankind from the penalty of it's rebellion.


Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Romans 3:20-28 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Satan counterfeits God's plan of redemption through his Son by setting up his own "son", the "son of perdition". It is interesting that Judas Iscariot is also identified as the "
son of perdition" who went to his own place (Joh 17:12, Ac 1:25).

Whoever he may be, the antichrist is a man. Satan is a different personage than the antichrist/man of sin/son of perdition/ that Wicked/ Beast. They are identified as such in the Bible.


Revelation 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon (Satan), and out of the mouth of the beast (Antichrist), and out of the mouth of the false prophet (he who causes all to worship the beast).

Satan cannot be the beast because they are cast into the lake of fire at different times.

The beast and the false prophet (both men) are cast into the lake of fire at Christ's second coming.


Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Whereas, Satan is bound in the bottomless pit at Christ's second coming:


Revelation 20:1-3 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Satan is released at the end of the 1000 year reign to deceive the nations, and to gather them together to battle against Jesus Christ. Notice that Satan himself gathers the nations together, the Beast/antichrist and false prophet are already in the lake of fire. After this battle in which Satan and his forces are defeated by fire from God out of heaven, Satan joins the antichrist and the false prophet in the lake of fire, to be tormented forever, time without end:


Revelation 20:7-10 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

[Greenbear]

You cannot understand the Bible because you are not saved.


1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


You trust in your own righteousness to save you instead of the shed blood of the only righteous man who has ever lived. God manifest in the flesh, whose blood was shed for you.


Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


Because you are not saved you believe that you can supply your own white robe. The problem is that your white robe is not really white, it is a filthy rag that is hopelessly soiled. It must be washed in the blood of the Lamb to make it white. There is no other way to make your robe white.


Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The problem is that you will not wash your robe in the blood of the Lamb unless you are able to see your need.


Revelation 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:


Please accept the free gift of salvation freely offered to you through the finished work of Christ.


Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Ephesians 2:8, 9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

1 Corinthians 1:27-31 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

[bellevuebully]

I honestly don't know.




I'll leave you with this thought. It was espoused by Saul Mine and I have since not been able to disagree with it.


"It is impossible to reconcile human history without allowing for the existence of a devil." -- Saul Mine


Just think about it. Human history really doesn't make a lot of sense.


I would like to add something to that NE. I'm kind of a 'big-picture' guy. Even when looking at issues such as what is going on in the economy, I don't need to know every detail to know what is going on. Like Weatherman's tag line on gim1....you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind is blowing. It is the same as the dynamics of this world. Would you agree, for the most part, that we are in a 'closed-loop' system....essentially free of outside influence of other mortal beings? If so, why is the concept of good and evil so prevalent globally, and historically? Why does every civilization in every generation show evidence of a quest for God? Anyone saying religion was invented is ignoring the 'closed-loop' issue....we are basically aware of what we are exposed to....you might agree or disagree, this is just food for thought. But even die-hard scientist/evolutionist types admit they might not even recognize life outside of our system even if they saw it because they wouldn't know what they are looking at....kind of the same concept, no? I would say that a couple of these 'big-picture' issues hint to the fact that the concept of God is hardwired into us. It is inescapable to contemplate God. It takes an effort, imo, to discount God. Same goes for our actions. Why do people do things they know are wrong. Why don't we by nature, never do anything wrong? Seriously.....why not? If we are purely chemical beings, wouldn't we be a little more absolute in our actions? Life and living is full of these conflicts and dichotomies. I find it quite fascinating. Like I said, just food for thought, but I think you are asking the right questions.

[bellevuebully]

There is some real meat and potatoes being served up on this thread. Bravo GSUSites.... or GSUSians... or GSUSicans. Oh, I forgt GSUSadians. ;D

[bellevuebully]

I find a very interesting thing in Scripture that belongs, imo, on this thread. Not meant to point fingers. Take it for what it's worth.

Romans 14:1....Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgement on disputable matters.

Paul was addressing infighting and personal clashes amongst believers on items that were not central to the doctrine of salvation. That's all I want to say.

[7th trump]

Please go reread:
"Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders......"
This does not say anything about a man coming after satan.

Are you sure that "after" here means that Satan's coming is sequentially in time after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders? This doesn't make any sense. The word "after" carries meanings other than in time. Another use of the word "after" is to seek out, follow a direction or influence.

Do you consider these verses to mean that something comes sequentially in time after something else? Decide for yourself if the word "after" has more than one sense.


Deuteronomy 6:14 Ye shall not go after other gods...

Is God commanding Israel not to follow sequentially in time after other gods or is he telling them not to seek out and follow the direction and influences of other gods?

Here's another example of a different meaning for the word "after":


Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Does this mean that we are supposed to actually walk behind our flesh? Or does it mean we are not to allow our flesh to rule over us?


Compare these verses side by side. They are both talking about the same thing:


2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
(This beast is a political beast green bear..........the NWO. And it too, like satan, is cast into the lake of fire never to return.)

Satan always counterfeits what God has done, because he wills to be like him (Isa 14:14). God the Father sent the Son Of God to become a man, so that he could be our kinsman redeemer. Jesus Christ is wholly God, and wholly man. God had to become a man to save mankind from the penalty of it's rebellion. (no actually satan wills to be Christ)


Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; (This is why Christ on the cross said "it is done" just before stepping out of the flesh. satan nailed Jesus on the cross, as its written in Genesis would happen, which gave all reason for God to destroy one of his own, satan)

Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Romans 3:20-28 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Satan counterfeits God's plan of redemption through his Son by setting up his own "son", the "son of perdition". It is interesting that Judas Iscariot is also identified as the "
son of perdition" who went to his own place (Joh 17:12, Ac 1:25).
No where is it written that satan has a son. satan for one has to be here on earth and mate with a flesh body to have an offspring....................that doesnt happen.

Whoever he may be, the antichrist is a man. Satan is a different personage than the antichrist/man of sin/son of perdition/ that Wicked/ Beast. They are identified as such in the Bible.


Revelation 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon (Satan), and out of the mouth of the beast (Antichrist), and out of the mouth of the false prophet (he who causes all to worship the beast).

Satan cannot be the beast because they are cast into the lake of fire at different times.

The beast and the false prophet (both men) are cast into the lake of fire at Christ's second coming. (the beast is a political beast, not a person)


Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Whereas, Satan is bound in the bottomless pit at Christ's second coming:


Revelation 20:1-3 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
(They are all the same greenbear. With Revelation 20:1-3 you give the most perfect example of the dragon who's that old serpent which is the devil and satan and bound him up...........................that didnt say and bound them up. And where is the word "beast" here? Its missing because the beast is a political beast. The very same beast that gets the mortal blow to one of its heads. You are seeing the beast getting its mortal blow happening right now. They, the political leaders, most are from the synagogs of satan, are having trouble with this new world order. It just barley comes together and fails. Only the appearnce of satan on earth is it brought back to life.)

Satan is released at the end of the 1000 year reign to deceive the nations, and to gather them together to battle against Jesus Christ. Notice that Satan himself gathers the nations together, the Beast/antichrist and false prophet are already in the lake of fire. After this battle in which Satan and his forces are defeated by fire from God out of heaven, Satan joins the antichrist and the false prophet in the lake of fire, to be tormented forever, time without end:


Revelation 20:7-10 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

[keehah]

I have been trying to find the difference between the Devil and Satan.
Satan is psychopathic aggressive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgjcvxQjpKA

[BillBoard]

If there was no Bible, how would we go about determining what is good and evil?

For example, those natives that were not aware there was a Bible, how would they see their existence in relations to other natives?

The reason I am asking is that I want to know what shapes one's morality. Are morality and scruples shaped by the philosophy of some thinker adopted by society? For example like the Chinese by Confucius?

[keehah]

If there was no Bible, how would we go about determining what is good and evil?

It is hardwired into 95% or so of the population. Although it is generally good to have some sort of system to reinforce moral habits.

Now for the other 5%, perhaps some will have the fear of god beaten into them to act moral. But I think the hold is tenuous, and only reaches another percent or two.

Better IMO to spend some effort teaching the 95% to be aware of, and not be a victim of that 5% or any others that go roque. Otherwise if people 'blindly' trust like lambs of god, it only takes one or two evil or satanic seeds to corrupt a much larger group of moral people.

[Dogman]

I can say there are evil people that live and have lived. I have met one or two that I would call pure evil, they should have been killed at birth.

And on the other hand some very good people that live and have lived. And those there are never enough of on this earth.

So I do believe in Good and Evil. But that is not an answer to the o/p.

Devil or Satan ? It may just names given to explain evil that does exist in man!

[StackerKen]

If there was no Bible, how would we go about determining what is good and evil?

It is hardwired into 95% or so of the population.


Thats pretty much what separates Humans from the rest of the animals :)

[bellevuebully]

It is hardwired into 95% or so of the population. Although it is generally good to have some sort of system to reinforce moral habits.



The question is the origin of the hardwiring. I'd be interested in your comments on what I posted in #55.

[keehah]

If there was no Bible, how would we go about determining what is good and evil?

It is hardwired into 95% or so of the population.


Thats pretty much what separates Humans from the rest of the animals :)


Perhaps if you had a pet dog instead of reptiles and cockroaches you would be more open to the idea some animals have empathy and morals of a sort much like humans do. ;)
________
I'll check it out bellevuebully, woking all day and I'm going to sleep on a response. I sure we can find some common ground.

[StackerKen]

If there was no Bible, how would we go about determining what is good and evil?

It is hardwired into 95% or so of the population.


Thats pretty much what separates Humans from the rest of the animals :)


Perhaps if you had a pet dog instead of reptiles and cockroaches you would be more open to the idea some animals have empathy and morals of a sort much like humans do. ;)
________



LOL :D

As a matter of fact I have four dogs (all rescues) and three cats and Horse and a goat and a bunch of chickens, a couple parrots, some quail, canary's and more..... ;D

[G2Rad]

so, along that line, the Devil exists the same way Harry Potter exists - in the imaginations of some people.
but normally - when a person exists, you can touch them, talk to them, etc.

not quite

you can only touch 1/3 of me, you can only touch my body (which is in the process of dying)

I noticed that almost always 1/3 of every thing dies and the 2/3 lives

[BillBoard]

I noticed that almost always 1/3 of every thing dies and the 2/3 lives



Can you please explain further?

[G2Rad]

I noticed that almost always 1/3 of every thing dies and the 2/3 lives
Can you please explain further?

I can't explain why. I can only give some examples:

a man: body is to die and to be planted/buried ( soul & spirit is to survive )
a common seed: seed coat is to die ( embryo & endosperm is to produce a new plant)
God: Jesus died ( Holy Spirit & YHWH did not die)
Angels: 1/3 joined Satan ( 2/3 did not )
Crucifixion: 1 of three curses Jesus and goes to hell ( 2 of three survive )
Book of Revelation: 1/3 of this and that dies (look it up) 2/3 survives
There seems to be a pattern in many things all around us.

[G2Rad]

a man: body is to die and to be planted/buried ( soul & spirit is to survive )


when a man dies we say ashes to ashes, dust to dust.
for dust you are and to dust you will return.

compare tha against

Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

interesting .....

[Awoke]

That was when God was talking to satan after satan mislead Eve and Adam to eat from the forbidden tree.

Later on in verse 19, when speaking to Adam:
"In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread till thou return to the earth, out of which thou wast taken: for dust thou art, and into dust thou shalt return"

[BillBoard]

Later on in verse 19, when speaking to Adam:
"In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread till thou return to the earth, out of which thou wast taken: for dust thou art, and into dust thou shalt return"


That got me thinking, if we came from dust and to dust we shall return, that is just fine by me. The thought of eternal destruction does not make me afraid, however, the thought of eternal Life does. Can you imagine God's responsibilities?

[StreetsOfGold]

"Do you believe that the Devil exists? How about Satan?"

I used to, but I'm in the process of changing my beliefs. therefore there can't be another equally powerful force for evil

The Bible does not teach that Satan is an "equal" to God so you went wrong right there and perhaps that's why you went looking to another source for knowledge about Satan and now are off track.

[StreetsOfGold]

I noticed that almost always 1/3 of every thing dies and the 2/3 lives
Can you please explain further?

I can't explain why. I can only give some examples:

a man: body is to die and to be planted/buried ( soul & spirit is to survive )
a common seed: seed coat is to die ( embryo & endosperm is to produce a new plant)
God: Jesus died ( Holy Spirit & YHWH did not die)
Angels: 1/3 joined Satan ( 2/3 did not )
Crucifixion: 1 of three curses Jesus and goes to hell ( 2 of three survive )
Book of Revelation: 1/3 of this and that dies (look it up) 2/3 survives
There seems to be a pattern in many things all around us.


That's very interesting and something that's been staring me in the face but I never saw. Thank you

[Spectrism]

I have not ruled out a possibility that I have been considering for many years. The beast may be the indwelling of 2-thirds of the population.

Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

I am not a Greek expert, but it may not be a stretch to write this as:
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of mankind; and their number is Six hundred threescore and six.


666 of 1000 is two thirds. In my travels I see a majority in the neighborhood of two-thirds who are willingly deceived and would take the indwelling of the devil spirit for a meal when they are hungry.

This would parallel the indwelling by born-again christians (as if there is any other kind) whereby the man (mankind) is willingly surrendered to God's Spirit. The counterfeiter copies the original and twists it.

[G2Rad]

666 of 1000 is two thirds.


When I search for the word "Christ" in my e-sword software I see that it is mentioned 555 times

When I search for the word "Satan", I see that it is mentioned 55 times

Now, watch me counting the words of Christ which he spoke to Satan

Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It1 is2 written3, Man4 shall5 not6 live7 by8 bread9 alone10, but11 by12 every13 word14 that15 proceedeth16 out17 of18 the19 mouth20 of21 God22.
Mat 4:5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
Mat 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Mat 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It23 is24 written25 again26, Thou27 shalt28 not29 tempt30 the31 Lord32 thy33 God34.
Mat 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
Mat 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get35 thee36 hence37, Satan38: for39 it40 is41 written42, Thou43 shalt44 worship45 the46 Lord47 thy48 God49, and50 him51 only52 shalt53 thou54 serve55.

55 words in total

why is it 55 again?

[G2Rad]

God has given man dominion over beasts.

Satan is a serpant.

Serpants are beasts.

yet the beast rises over the see (http://gold-silver.us/forum/religion-and-philosophy/shadows-in-the-world-of-shadows/) and is given dominion over man

[lapis]

"Do you believe that the Devil exists? How about Satan?"

I used to, but I'm in the process of changing my beliefs. therefore there can't be another equally powerful force for evil




The Bible does not teach that Satan is an "equal" to God

I guess so, but this thread isn't about the devil and the Bible. It's about beliefs in general, which opens up the discussion to other views besides what's in the Bible, which is a good thing!


so you went wrong right there and perhaps that's why you went looking to another source for knowledge about Satan and now are off track.

Off track? But the Bible isn't the sole source for knowledge about good and evil.

I find the Science of Mind/Ernest Holmes' position about evil far more freeing:

"There is only one power in the universe and that power is the goodness and love of God. Dr. Holmes tells us, there is no sin, but a mistake, and no punishment, but an inevitable consequence. If we misuse the law of freedom, we suffer the consequences. There is no such thing as innate evil. But, because we have freedom of choice, we can choose to separate ourselves from the harmony of God. Hear the promise:

"All will recognize and live out their divinity because that divinity has been placed in them from the beginning of time. All will come into the conscious realization that they are spiritual beings, here, now. But each must discover this truth in their own time and in their own way."

Sin is simply a mistake. The English word "sin" comes from an old archery term that means "to miss the mark." Nobody shoots a bulls eye every time. We all miss the mark sometimes. But this doesn't mean we are bad or that we have succumbed to evil. There is no such thing as innate evil. People do what we call "bad things" because of lack of awareness. The poet Goethe defined evil as "obstinate ignorance." The truth is we have the ability to overcome ignorance with increased awareness. The truth is people are obstinate because they are afraid. Wisdom overcomes ignorance and love overcomes obstinacy. When we come into wisdom and love we shall "go and sin no more."

Dr Holmes states:

"We do not say that humans cannot sin; what we say is, that they do sin or make mistakes and that they are thereby automatically punished, AS LONG AS THEY CONTINUE TO MAKE MISTAKES. This does not mean that there is an evil power in the Universe; but it does mean that there is an immutable Law of cause and effect running through everything. Sin is its own punishment and righteousness ITS OWN REWARD."

"The age-long discussion of the problem of evil will never be answered until we realize that it is not a thing of itself but is simply A MISUSE OF THE LAW OF FREEDOM. The problem of evil will be met only to the degree that we cease doing evil and do good, for evil will disappear when we no longer indulge in it. When the whole world sees the right and does it; then, and not until then, will the problem of evil be solved for the entire race."

"When Jesus said "Resist not evil," He meant that non-recognition of evil is the only way to avoid it." Anything you resist you give energy to. What you resist will resist you. That is the law. Focus only on what you want, not on what you don't want.

One of the most illuminating things that mysticism has revealed, is that evil is not an ultimate reality . Evil is simply an experience of the soul on its journey of awareness. Evil is not a person or an entity but an experience necessary to self-unfoldment; it is not a thing of itself but simply a misuse of power. It will disappear when we stop looking at, or believing in it. We cannot stop believing in it as long as we indulge in it; so the mystic has always taught the race to turn from evil and do good.

Evil does exit in the world. And it is based on fear. But there is a solution. And the solution is love. When Jesus says, "love your enemies", he is not saying that civilization should not protect itself. He is saying, that behind the evil act, hidden in the depths of the person is an essence of goodness. When we demonize a person in the name of goodness, we are reacting with the same fear that created the evil act.

The answer to evil is compassionate action and it begins in the hearts and minds of each of us. If we make a conscious decision and live our lives from love, evil will begin to disappear. We start where we are, in our own community. We make a vow to treat everyone we meet with dignity and respect and that means everyone. We make a difference, one person at a time and gradually more and more people will come into the conscious realization of the love of God. Love prevails. Peace prevails. And with this realization the problem of evil disappears from our minds forever."

From:
Essay on Peace - SOM Response to 9/11 (http://oneheart-onemind.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=47&Itemid=51)

[wrs]

So if Satan is knowledge of good and evil... what is ignorance?

Does living in Jesus Christ make you ignorant of evil...and what is good?

How can you know good without bad?

If you believe in the right of self-defense, how can you believe it is right for those to that harm you to go through life with impunity...

I can't put my finger on it, but I think there is much more to the Jesus story. Maybe the Devil is your unjust desire to commit harm, i.e., malice.

If the Tree of Life is good, how can those that make the hard decisions for survival of the species be evil? That is to say, if some must die so others may survive is that evil?


The Tree of Life and the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil are both planted in the same garden, how could one be good and the other be bad if the garden was a perfect place? The fact is, they couldn't. Some say that they represent the higher self and the ego. Identification with the ego is eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Eating from the Tree of Life is identification with the higher self. Paul called this the the inner-man (Eph 3:16) and the mystery of Christ in you (Col 1:27).

Today's literal Christianity is not likely that close to what Paul taught originally nor is it close to what the gnostics originally believed either. The source of Christianity would surprise most of todays churchgoers if they did any amount of study of the history. The thing is that people are told that historians are devils themselves, the idea that the bible is the word of God without error will always keep people from looking to objective sources of information. This is the danger of getting wrapped up in CHURCHIANITY. I know this, I spent 25 years in CHURCHIANITY and I came out of it 5 years ago.

I have studied the mystery religions and a lot of different views of Gnosis as well as Yoga. I prefer the viewpoint of Yoga. I find that the literal reading of the Bible is very limiting and leads one into a lot of errors. Of course people who think the bible is inerrant and the word of God will not ever even be able to see the contradiction in the word of God being written by men. The only way that the bible could be the word of God is if men all have God in them. That is what I believe and I also believe that men have what we call the Devil in them as well. This is the challenge of life on earth, figuring out how to live and what is important.

Lucifer is not the Devil, go do some study on the whole meaning of the Hebrew word for devil in the OT, it is adversary. Lucifer is a special word in latin meaning light-bearer and it is also used in Revelation but instead of lucifer, it is translated light-bearer. There is a tremendous amount of confusion in the church that is used to advantage by those who run the churches and take the money of the people sitting in the pews believing the damaging stuff they are told every Sunday.

It is very illuminating to study other religions and the history of the church and try to find support for a historic Christ.

Anyhow, I haven't been around in a few years and I have indeed changed my way of thinking about the world, much for the better. A big part of that is dumping any belief in soteriology or damnation. I think we reincarnate but how we get off the wheel is another matter altogether. There are a lot of different views about that and I don't have a good idea of what is really correct.

[Awoke]

Later on in verse 19, when speaking to Adam:
"In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread till thou return to the earth, out of which thou wast taken: for dust thou art, and into dust thou shalt return"

Can you imagine God's responsibilities?


I can not.

But there is nothing to fear with an eternal life, provided you're on the good side.