How much do you tip?

[Filthy Keynes]

Just a question, how much do you tip your waiter?

[Cebu_4_2]

Just a question, how much do you tip your waiter?


If they are good and attentive 15-20%
If they suck 0%

[Gaillo]

On the rare occasion that Henny and I eat out, I always start the meal with the idea of tipping 20%. It goes down from there if the waitress ignores our table for too long, gets the order wrong, interrupts our conversation, or similar breaches of waitress-ness. The ULTIMATE sin is to break out a vacuum cleaner or cleaning chemicals in the vicinity of our meal, in which case the tip goes down to 0%. On rare occasions, when the service is exemplary, I'll raise the tip to 25%.

[AndreaGail]

like the comments above me i'll tip anywhere from 0-25%

just depends on the service...

and the looks ;D ;)

[Hillbilly]

15 percent if the service was adequate. None if the service sucked but a whole lot more if the service was outstanding.

[bellevuebully]

We don't tip based purely on service. It's more of a from the gut thing....how genuinely they tried to serve you well, pleasant to deal with, modest and kind.....that kind of stuff. Not everybody is...uh...'equipped' equally. And sometimes, lousy service is just not the server's fault.

[FreeEnergy]

:o :o :o :o

Are you guys really tipping 25%?

I don't tip that much even to a masseuse in a sauna...well...that I guess depends ....


I usually tip 10%-15%. I eat out a lot, sometimes it's just business lunch or quick sushi dinner with my wife.

In USA it has become ridiculous, it is 0 to 10% in Europe, and most countries it is not even a custom to tip.

[skid]

Usually 15%. More if the service/food was great, less if the service/food was poor.

I once had to send lasagna back twice (in Cancun) because it was still frozen in the middle :conf: It was still cold the 3rd time. I gave the waiter a few peso tip (worth a few cents at the time) and the waiter chased me out onto the street thinking I had made a mistake. I told him no mistake, the food and the service sucked, now take a hike...

I don't normally send food back ever cause I don't like my food spat in, but in this case in was inedible...

[FreeEnergy]

Ok....so let me ask this. What kinds of restaurants you guys are going to, and what sort of treat you get from a waiter that you tip 25%?

No, seriously, I am baffled.


'cause there's plenty of countries out there where the waitresses are nice and good looking and will do lots of extra stuff if you tip that much.... no, seriously, I am not even joking here.

[skid]

Ok....so let me ask this. What kinds of restaurants you guys are going to, and what sort of treat you get from a waiter that you tip 25%?

No, seriously, I am baffled.


'cause there's plenty of countries out there where the waitresses are nice and good looking and will do lots of extra stuff if you tip that much.... no, seriously, I am not even joking here.


For business meals I usually only tip 10%, as I know my boss looks at my expenses. The only time I would tip 25% is for breakfast, as the meals are usually cheaper, and the waitress is usually a struggling mom trying to get by on a waitresses's wage. The college kids serving dinner at night would usually get 10-15% depending on food/service...

[Gaillo]

Ok....so let me ask this. What kinds of restaurants you guys are going to, and what sort of treat you get from a waiter that you tip 25%?

No, seriously, I am baffled.


'cause there's plenty of countries out there where the waitresses are nice and good looking and will do lots of extra stuff if you tip that much.... no, seriously, I am not even joking here.


I believe you... but you have to keep in mind: in the U.S., waiter(esses) make FAR below minimum wage, something like $3 or $4 per hour... They rely on tips for the bulk of their (theoretically reported to the I R S) income. If they give good service, I see no reason to stiff them... just sayin'

[sunshine05]

Usually 15-20% but anymore it is more the norm to receive bad food and service so that drops. It is hard to find a decent restaurant.

[FreeEnergy]

Oh, I see, I may have misunderstood.

For breakfast I usually tip more too, if bill is $10-15 they are likely to get $3 or $4 bucks from me. I was thinking more in the neighborhood of $40 to $100 bill.

[mrnhtbr2232]

Data mining factoid 2FB4-091
mrnhtbr2232 / GSUS

Tips: 15-20%
Still believes good customer service deserves reward.
Occasionally goes 25% for someone who includes good table management and food knowledge.

[Sparky]

Usually 15-20%, but as low as 10% and as high as 25%. I can't remember a server so offensive so as to not get a tip from me. As a rule, if the server is not good, it's a bad idea to leave nothing because then they might think you simply forgot to tip, and won't correlate it with their performance, and not learn to improve. If you leave a poor non-zero tip, they'll know it wasn't an oversight.

The most nonsensical thing about tipping is that it is tied to the price of the meal. Should the server of a $45 tab get paid 3x the server of a $15 tab if they were of equal quality service? As a result, my percentage goes down for higher tabs, and up for lower tabs. I'm not going to leave only a $1.20 tip at Denny's just because my breakfast cost only 8 bucks.

What's also kind of ridiculous is some of the tipping for alcoholic drinks at bars. I see people ordering two bottled beers for $8, then tip $2 to the bartender. A 25% tip for taking 5 seconds to remove two bottle caps?!?

[Sparky]

Usually 15%. More if the service/food was great, less if the service/food was poor.

I once had to send lasagna back twice (in Cancun) because it was still frozen in the middle :conf: It was still cold the 3rd time. I gave the waiter a few peso tip (worth a few cents at the time) and the waiter chased me out onto the street thinking I had made a mistake. I told him no mistake, the food and the service sucked, now take a hike...

I don't normally send food back ever cause I don't like my food spat in, but in this case in was inedible...




I don't think you should reduce the tip for bad food. The server doesn't cook. If she/he was unsympathetic, then that's a different story.

[Sparky]

For business meals I usually only tip 10%, as I know my boss looks at my expenses.
...


That's seems very unfair to the server. Would your boss think 15% was exorbitant? That seems unreasonable. And if that were the case, I would tip the extra 5% from my own pocket and simply leave it off the expense report.

[skid]

Usually 15%. More if the service/food was great, less if the service/food was poor.

I once had to send lasagna back twice (in Cancun) because it was still frozen in the middle :conf: It was still cold the 3rd time. I gave the waiter a few peso tip (worth a few cents at the time) and the waiter chased me out onto the street thinking I had made a mistake. I told him no mistake, the food and the service sucked, now take a hike...

I don't normally send food back ever cause I don't like my food spat in, but in this case in was inedible...





I don't think you should reduce the tip for bad food. The server doesn't cook. If she/he was unsympathetic, then that's a different story.

He was a bit of a snotty prick when I asked him to re-heat it the first time, and was extra snotty the second time. This was a fairly fancy place too and I couldn't believe it wasn't made fresh either.

[skid]

For business meals I usually only tip 10%, as I know my boss looks at my expenses.
...


That's seems very unfair to the server. Would your boss think 15% was exorbitant? That seems unreasonable. And if that were the case, I would tip the extra 5% from my own pocket and simply leave it off the expense report.


Good for you sunshine

[solid]

I always tip a lot more for breakfast.

Breakfast has to be one of the tougher meals for a waiter/waitress, making sure folks have coffee (I drink a lot of coffee). I'll tip 50% sometimes, because the meal is less expensive, and the work, harder.

[Sparky]

For business meals I usually only tip 10%, as I know my boss looks at my expenses.
...


That's seems very unfair to the server. Would your boss think 15% was exorbitant? That seems unreasonable. And if that were the case, I would tip the extra 5% from my own pocket and simply leave it off the expense report.


Good for you sunshine




:sun:

[Filthy Keynes]

Here in Canada we have a 13% tax on the meal. Then it is expected to tip on top of that. So I only tip 8% these days. I'm paying 22% MORE than the price of a meal! Incredible. If I wasn't married I would NEVER eat at restaurants!

[skid]

Here in Canada we have a 13% tax on the meal. Then it is expected to tip on top of that. So I only tip 8% these days. I'm paying 22% MORE than the price of a meal! Incredible. If I wasn't married I would NEVER eat at restaurants!


Well, you have to look after those poor souls that can't hold down a job with your taxes. Cigarettes and booze for the non-working class aren't cheap nowadays you know...

[TheNocturnalEgyptian]

I offer silver, massages, and healing oil when I am in barter, (since I have about 120+ essential oils stocked)

and 10-30% based on service with frn's

for bodywork, if I like it, I usually tip 50%, or silver

[Book]

I'll go 25% tops for the Happy Ending.

:o

[TheNocturnalEgyptian]

It never hurts to promise the world once in a while

http://morrisonworldnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Gold-coins.jpg

http://www.linasjewelry.com/fluorite2.jpg

[Cebu_4_2]

It never hurts to promise the world once in a while
http://morrisonworldnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Gold-coins.jpg


That looks like them gold wrapped chocolate candies you give kids for easter.

[milehi]

I have about seven places I eat out at regularly. At these places, I've established a relationship with the staff and will tip over 30%. It's worth it because I rarely have to ask for anything, they know what I'm drinking, and what table I'd like. Besides, alot of these people are friends and they will sometimes be sitting at the bar having a drink with you after their shift. It also doesn't hurt that I often dine alone and the bill is small. Anywhere where I'm not a regular, the tip will reflect their performance.

[k-os]

I rarely dine out. But as for tipping when I do . . . I go by my gut, but I start at 20% and go down from there. I've had super fantastic service and given up to 50% (I am sure it was breakfast, if not, inexpensive lunch).

I've given my massage therapist 80% and 100% tips before, (she works magic on me) but only after an exemplary massage, or it was right before Christmas - like a bonus. I tend to have a very heavy tipping hand in general around the holidays for those that work in the service industry. I give year-end bonuses to my UPS, garbage, mail, landscaping. . .

Oh crap, I guess those people won't be getting their Christmas bonus from me this year. :o

[loky]

We don't tip in Australia.
Why do you tip in the USA is it cause they don't get paid well in services jobs ? I never understood it. :conf:

[Buddha]

Good service = good tip

Bad service = bad tip

[solidus]

As somebody with employees I can't but wish that I could get away with paying them $3-4 per hour and relying on my customers to dig a little deeper to make up the difference. In most cases the tip is a subsidy to the owner of the restaurant so that he/she can lower labor costs.

[gunDriller]

at a hotel, $1 for the maid, or a bag of plastic water bottle empties in California (they like those)

at Jamba Juice, $.55 if i get a Peach Pleasure ($4.45), $.25 if i get a Blackberry Bliss ($4.75)

at a restaurant, 10 to 15%+.

[Libertytree]

Keep in mind I'm just a dude at a liquor store and normally there is never any tipping. A few times though even I get tipped, last week a guy tipped me $20! 8-9 months ago another dude tipped me $40.

On the rare occasion I do go out, I start at 20%, it's up to them if it stays there.

[Ash_Williams]

I don't tip a percent. My meals are usually $10 to $30 and I leave $4 to $8. I don't understand the logic of the percent, as the best meals in this town come for about $15 to $25 per person (after that the portion size goes down and usually the taste does as well). Why would I tip more for the same service, and a poorer meal, just because the establishment is a ripoff?

I try to go on the higher end of tipping if I plan on returning to the place.

Tip well and you get good treatment in the future. Seating is an important factor to me and in any place that I'm a regular I can enjoy my meal in comfort. I'm not seated near any annoying people and they're not seated near me. All the people with kids or cell phones or that come in coughing or with loud foreign voices end up on the other side of the place.

[BillBoard]

10% standard. Excellent service a bit more.

[madfranks]

When I delivered pizzas in college, I wore a shirt that said "Thank you!" on the front and "cheapskate" on the back. If they tipped, I'd thank them and wouldn't turn my back until they closed the door. When there was no tip, I'd promptly turn my back and walk away. Once a customer called the shop after I got back complaining that I called them a cheapskate; my boss took the call and asked if they tipped, when they said no, he told them that indeed, they were cheapskates. Good times, good times.

[solid]

When I delivered pizzas in college, I wore a shirt that said "Thank you!" on the front and "cheapskate" on the back. If they tipped, I'd thank them and wouldn't turn my back until they closed the door. When there was no tip, I'd promptly turn my back and walk away. Once a customer called the shop after I got back complaining that I called them a cheapskate; my boss took the call and asked if they tipped, when they said no, he told them that indeed, they were cheapskates. Good times, good times.


:lol I delivered pizzas in college too, I would have loved to have thought of that! Very clever. Also, my boss was like yours as well, would have backed me up.

Great story.

[bootstrap]

I try to go on the higher end of tipping if I plan on returning to the place.



This is the exact methodology I use. Quick service at lunch time is very important; I definately try to develop regular status at places I like to ensure prompt service.

My cabbie I typically tip 20% or so, and I plan on giving a year end bonus out of my own pocket.

[sirgonzo420]

Usually 15-20%, but as low as 10% and as high as 25%. I can't remember a server so offensive so as to not get a tip from me. As a rule, if the server is not good, it's a bad idea to leave nothing because then they might think you simply forgot to tip, and won't correlate it with their performance, and not learn to improve. If you leave a poor non-zero tip, they'll know it wasn't an oversight.

The most nonsensical thing about tipping is that it is tied to the price of the meal. Should the server of a $45 tab get paid 3x the server of a $15 tab if they were of equal quality service? As a result, my percentage goes down for higher tabs, and up for lower tabs. I'm not going to leave only a $1.20 tip at Denny's just because my breakfast cost only 8 bucks.

What's also kind of ridiculous is some of the tipping for alcoholic drinks at bars. I see people ordering two bottled beers for $8, then tip $2 to the bartender. A 25% tip for taking 5 seconds to remove two bottle caps?!?


People tip at bars so they will be served faster.

I can imagine if most people at a bar are tipping the non-tipping guy will get served last.

I don't go to bars, and don't really drink often in general, but that's my 2 cents.

[madfranks]

Here's a tip for tipping: If you go in-store to order whatever it is, tip up front, and make sure they see you tip, then you have a better chance of them making it extra nice for you. When I worked at the pizza place, people who tipped upfront got more toppings and extra cheese for free. ;)

[solid]

Here's a tip for tipping: If you go in-store to order whatever it is, tip up front, and make sure they see you tip, then you have a better chance of them making it extra nice for you. When I worked at the pizza place, people who tipped upfront got more toppings and extra cheese for free. ;)


The best tip I ever got delivering pizzas didn't involve cash. A beautiful young gal answered the door wearing nothing but a towel. I heard giggling in the background, pretty sure it was a bunch of young gals having a sleep over, having fun.

The tip was her smile, a phone number, and a "give me a call sometime".

I still remember that and chuckle. If you are a young guy paying your way through school, deliver pizzas! Best job and great fun too.

[sirgonzo420]

Well, did you give her a call?
:D

[solid]

Well, did you give her a call?
:D


Uh, no. I was young, and very shy. I made up a bunch of excuses not to. ;)

[Kali]

Servers are taxed on tips based on the total price of their sales. I forget what the percent is, I'm thinking it's like 8%...?

My mom was a waitress for 20 yrs and it wasn't always like that. I think they started taxing tips somewhere in the early 90's.

She made min wage + taxed tips regardless of what she actually made in tips.

I never get bad service. I do get served by servers who are sometimes tired/busy or are in a bad mood as they probably just dealt with someone who stiffed them or dealt with jerks.

I usually tip 15-50% depending on how expensive meal was.

$10 bill I'd tip $3-4...maybe $5.

$100 bill I'd tip around $20.

[SLV^GLD]

To OP: I intend to tip 20% it can go higher, sometimes as much as 50% and it can go to 0%. I try never to base the tip on the kitchen's performance but on their server's performance. Percentage is not the only deciding factor but it usually is.

I also delivered pizzas in college and it is a great job that puts money in your pocket daily. You do occasionally get offers to pay or tip in non-monetary form. I always declined the joints and bags of drugs. I once accepted a 6 pack of beer even though I didn't drink at the time, I gave it to some beer drinking friends. There was one older lady who apparently had a thing for me because she learned to order on my shifts and on a couple of occasions she dressed extremely skimpy and made sure to let me see she didn't have on underwear and very coyly invited me in. She tipped in cash and I always told her I was too busy to take the time to come inside. I, too, was a shy and didn't have the guts to be her boy toy. I sometimes wonder how I would have liked it, though.

[Filthy Keynes]

Perhaps the unintended consequence of tipping is to reduce the real salary of a waiter/waitress.

One thing I don't like about the concept of "tipping" in today's world is that most of the time it's done out of a sense of guilt (the poor waitress only earns $3/hr!). Why not just have these waiters and waitresses get paid a competitive salary in the first place?

Have we unwittingly caused the demise of a fair wage for waiters/waitresses because of our "tips"?

[sirgonzo420]

Perhaps the unintended consequence of tipping is to reduce the real salary of a waiter/waitress.

One thing I don't like about the concept of "tipping" in today's world is that most of the time it's done out of a sense of guilt (the poor waitress only earns $3/hr!). Why not just have these waiters and waitresses get paid a competitive salary in the first place?

Have we unwittingly caused the demise of a fair wage for waiters/waitresses because of our "tips"?




I'd say the lower labor costs probably keep meals cheaper than if the restaurateur had to pay all his workers $10+ an hour.

[SLV^GLD]

I look at tipping in the service industry as a method of distilling the service industry labor pool down to those who can do it effectively and efficiently. While I see some merit to the argument that the public is subsidizing the labor costs for the business I also see it as the public insuring the services rendered are of utmost quality. Lots of people, myself included, simply do not have what it takes to provide exceptional and effective service in these industries. We stay out of the way because we can't make it financially viable for us to be there in the first place.

[Sparky]

I look at tipping in the service industry as a method of distilling the service industry labor pool down to those who can do it effectively and efficiently. While I see some merit to the argument that the public is subsidizing the labor costs for the business I also see it as the public insuring the services rendered are of utmost quality. Lots of people, myself included, simply do not have what it takes to provide exceptional and effective service in these industries. We stay out of the way because we can't make it financially viable for us to be there in the first place.


Couldn't you make the same claim about all professions? Lots of people do not have what it takes to be an auto mechanic, or a brain surgeon. Should these service providers be compensated primarily through tipping, to ensure quality service? This argument doesn't hold water.

[SLV^GLD]

Couldn't you make the same claim about all professions? Lots of people do not have what it takes to be an auto mechanic, or a brain surgeon. Should these service providers be compensated primarily through tipping, to ensure quality service? This argument doesn't hold water.

Conflating brain surgery with waiting tables is disingenuous to this discussion. Brain surgery is a highly skilled and educated profession. Auto mechanic is a trade and also a profession. My definition of a service industry is that anyone can perform the functions of the job after a day or two of training and that the task is generally compensated not because the paying customer can't do it just as well or better for himself but because he considers his time more valuable than the cost of paying someone else to do it. In this way you can see why the waitress is in a tipping position while the chef is not. The chef is highly skilled and in a profession that cannot be easily replaced by the average person on the street. The skills obtained in these service industries are not readily applicable as a trade although they can be quite portable. Bartending and waiting tables are the two jobs that meet the description the best although bellhop, cab diver or maid are not to be overlooked.

[ximmy]

Pretty good answer SLV^GLD

[Filthy Keynes]

I think the Big Banks deserve huge bonuses. After all, nobody could do "god's work" like they do!

LOL! Just kidding!

[buyingsilvers]

I tip 15 -20%. If service is horrendous, then much smaller.

I tip because I accept tipping as a result of receiving service. Tipping is a generally accepted custom for receiving service at a restaurant in the US. In some countries like Japan, it is not acceptable, therefore you should not tip. If I go to a restaurant and order take out only (some offer takeout), I generally do not tip. If I go somewhere and sit down, use their utensils, dirty their table, get service from the waitress, etc. then I tip.

[Sparky]

Pretty good answer SLV^GLD


Yeah, that was a well thought out answer S^G.

[Joe King]

Couldn't you make the same claim about all professions? Lots of people do not have what it takes to be an auto mechanic, or a brain surgeon. Should these service providers be compensated primarily through tipping, to ensure quality service? This argument doesn't hold water.

Conflating brain surgery with waiting tables is disingenuous to this discussion. Brain surgery is a highly skilled and educated profession. Auto mechanic is a trade and also a profession. My definition of a service industry is that anyone can perform the functions of the job after a day or two of training and that the task is generally compensated not because the paying customer can't do it just as well or better for himself but because he considers his time more valuable than the cost of paying someone else to do it. In this way you can see why the waitress is in a tipping position while the chef is not. The chef is highly skilled and in a profession that cannot be easily replaced by the average person on the street. The skills obtained in these service industries are not readily applicable as a trade although they can be quite portable. Bartending and waiting tables are the two jobs that meet the description the best although bellhop, cab diver or maid are not to be overlooked.
When I'm in a resturant, I don't get a choice of walking over to the window and picking up my own food. No, they insist that I use their employee for that task. So therefore it's a moot point as to whether I think my time is more valuable or not. That decision was made for me by the person employing the waiter.

IMHO, it shouldn't matter if a job is low, or even no-skill required. Whoever the employer is should pay a living wage. Period.
Then, if I still want to tip due to exemplary service, that should be between me and that person and no one else.

To pay workers a pittance and then expect the customers to make up the difference is just being cheap on the part of the employers.



As far as distilling the labor pool via tips, what's wrong with a merit system like on any other job?
i.e. if the waiter can't cut it, let 'em go and hire another. Just like at any other job.

Which is exactly the same as you'd have to do when the lack of tips weeds out the bad ones in the current system.

[Book]

I look at tipping in the service industry as a method of distilling the service industry labor pool down to those who can do it effectively and efficiently. While I see some merit to the argument that the public is subsidizing the labor costs for the business I also see it as the public insuring the services rendered are of utmost quality.



http://sjchevalier07.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/dmv.jpg

Let's start tipping at the DMV. Lobbyists "reward" our government worker Congressmen all the time.

|--0--|

[SLV^GLD]

When I'm in a resturant, I don't get a choice of walking over to the window and picking up my own food. No, they insist that I use their employee for that task. So therefore it's a moot point as to whether I think my time is more valuable or not. That decision was made for me by the person employing the waiter.The waiter/waitress does considerably more than port food from one location to another. That person is the interface to the kitchen. That person will observe kitchen protocol and attempt to deliver the best possible customer experience in the wake of multiple patrons. Without this person the entire restaurant experience would be bedlam as people would be traversing the floors for all sorts of different missions getting in each others way and constantly distracting the cook staff. Even in food service models that do not employ a waiter/waitress there is still an intermediate person even when orders are submitted online (cafeterias, McD's, Jimmy John's, pizza joints). The restaurants insistence that you use these people for these tasks provides you with an experience that you are willing to pay for and return for. I can't speak for how all this evolved since it predates me by a large margin of time but it's not like there is some secret cabal of restaurateurs who are forcing this model down our throats. It has obviously evolved as a model of efficiency.


IMHO, it shouldn't matter if a job is low, or even no-skill required. Whoever the employer is should pay a living wage. Period.
Then, if I still want to tip due to exemplary service, that should be between me and that person and no one else.

To pay workers a pittance and then expect the customers to make up the difference is just being cheap on the part of the employers.This argument has merit as I alluded to in my original post. But, I maintain that it is a matter of perception; you can look at it negatively or positively as you see fit.




As far as distilling the labor pool via tips, what's wrong with a merit system like on any other job?
i.e. if the waiter can't cut it, let 'em go and hire another. Just like at any other job.

Which is exactly the same as you'd have to do when the lack of tips weeds out the bad ones in the current system.

The difference is the direct interface with the paying customer on a service level. While some part of my particular job involves directly interfacing with the paying customer my typical job functions are highly skilled and generally invisible to that customer. My direct interface is primarily a social skill that endears the customer to my company and heightens the perception of overall competency but the customer has no real basis to determine my degree of competency over any other person in my organization. In short, he has paid a contract for a delivered product and I am just a cog in the machine that delivers a quality product. If someone within the machinations of the organization does prove incompetent it is management's job to weed them out, not the paying customer's.
In a true service environment the contract still exists (the food, the hotel room, the cab destination) but there is that one intermediate person who insures the product is delivered with the utmost level of quality and attention. They are the direct interface to the customer. As such, the degree of responsibility is limited to specifically delivering a quality experience with the expectation that the rest of the team will do that nebulous thing that delivers the contracted product. In this environment, the paying customer IS the one and only person who is truly fit to determine the degree of competency of the intermediary and therefore their livelihood is put into the paying customer's hands.

[Joe King]

he has paid a contract for a delivered product and I am just a cog in the machine that delivers a quality product. If someone within the machinations of the organization does prove incompetent it is management's job to weed them out, not the paying customer's.
IMO, that's not any different than a resturant.
i.e. the waiter is a cog in the resturant machine hired by the owner to perform a job. Same as you at your job. If a waiter doesn't perform to the owners standards, it is the owners responsibility to fix the problem.
Same as at your job.



In a true service environment the contract still exists (the food, the hotel room, the cab destination) but there is that one intermediate person who insures the product is delivered with the utmost level of quality and attention. They are the direct interface to the customer. As such, the degree of responsibility is limited to specifically delivering a quality experience with the expectation that the rest of the team will do that nebulous thing that delivers the contracted product. In this environment, the paying customer IS the one and only person who is truly fit to determine the degree of competency of the intermediary and therefore their livelihood is put into the paying customer's hands.
The only thing in my hands is the ability to not return to that resturant anymore if the service is bad.
So until the resturant runs through all the "new" customers that the area has to offer, the owner probably won't know there's a problem with the service untill he's faced with an empty resturant.

On the other hand, if they paid a real wage to their workers as required at all other places of employment, the duty would be upon the owner to make sure that his workers are providing the service he expects them to.

Because in a tipping enviroment with poor service people will leave less of a tip and probably just not come back.
...but if the service is included in the price and that service was bad, people would let the owner know, because they didn't get what they've been charged for.

[1970 silver art]

I usually tip $1 or $2. Bad service = no tip.

[freespirit]

personally, i tip between 10 - 30%, but like most, that percentage will fluctuate in accordance to attitude, professionalism, and quality of service...

i only tip in those ranges at actual restaurants...i don't tip @ McD's, or the beer store, or the gas station, and the most the clerk at the drive thru is gonna get is the round up ( i.e. $1.72 coffee = $1.75 )

if those people think they should deserve tips, that's fine, lots of other people will be guilted into it, or conditioned to it due to the increased prevalence of "tip jars"...there actually was a tip jar at my local gas station (self serve, btw), and i pointed at the jar and asked the guy behind the counter if he was joking.

at the end of the day, it's hard enough to get the damn money into your pocket, let alone keep it there.

if you think you deserve a tip just because you have a job that pays shit wages, too bad...go get a better job.

my sympathy only goes so far...

[Neuro]

Couldn't you make the same claim about all professions? Lots of people do not have what it takes to be an auto mechanic, or a brain surgeon. Should these service providers be compensated primarily through tipping, to ensure quality service? This argument doesn't hold water.

Conflating brain surgery with waiting tables is disingenuous to this discussion. Brain surgery is a highly skilled and educated profession. Auto mechanic is a trade and also a profession. My definition of a service industry is that anyone can perform the functions of the job after a day or two of training and that the task is generally compensated not because the paying customer can't do it just as well or better for himself but because he considers his time more valuable than the cost of paying someone else to do it. In this way you can see why the waitress is in a tipping position while the chef is not. The chef is highly skilled and in a profession that cannot be easily replaced by the average person on the street. The skills obtained in these service industries are not readily applicable as a trade although they can be quite portable. Bartending and waiting tables are the two jobs that meet the description the best although bellhop, cab diver or maid are not to be overlooked.
I doubt that the chef gets 20% of the price of the meal as salary. Why should the person bringing the meal to the table get more than the person who prepares it? I don't mind tipping, but why as much as 20%? Waiting staff has usually the least investment in the restaurant, vs the restaurateur who put a lot of money and effort into it, vs the chef who has an education/experience/talent... It is the waiter/ess that gets the extras for the efforts of the restaureteur and the chef. I think 5-10% should be enough for the waiting staff...

[freespirit]

... i would say that the servers should get a little better than 5 - 10 % just because even though they may have the least invested in the restaurant, they are the ones that have to put up with rowdy, bitchy and unsatisfiable customers, screaming kids, and they have to put up with s&a from the kitchen staff, etc. when anything goes wrong...for example, if you as a customer complain, the server hears about it from you, then when they go back to the kitchen, they hear about it from the chef, even if it wasn't their fault....and good chefs can make excellent money, sometimes in excess of $50,000/yr...
in some cases they even have profit sharing...and believe it or not, some restaurants require the servers give up a percentage of their tips for the kitchen to split.

and if anyone thinks serving tables is easy, try serving a 5 course meal to 6 tables of 8...

but nevertheless, when i served tables as a younger man, we were always taught that a tip was something you earned, you should never expect it. which leaves it up to the server to do the best job they can, and to the customer as to how much one should tip...